Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 5 months ago

117) #ExponentialInsights: Why You’ve Been Overlooking the Female Financial Market


It was only a 1988 bill that allowed women not to have a male signature for their business loan. Women just haven’t had the same generational runway that men have had, especially when it comes to business and finance.

In this episode, I interview Brian Harris, Executive Creative Director at Bradley and Montgomery, about growing a niche market and improving our marketing messaging to women.

Brian talks with me about:

- The size and nature of the perceived financial gap

- How FinTech has fostered an attitude of empathy

- Representation: showing a 27-year-old woman shopping for a home

- Being where your growth market is

Internalizing your goal of understanding what you’re saying to women

Related Episodes

- Ep. 71 w/ Jeffrey Kendall

- Ep. 105 w/ Jennifer Beeston

- Ep. 111 w/ James Robert Lay Ep. 115 w/ James Robert Lay

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player. really is a commitment tounderstanding what you're saying, two women and if you don't, it's gonna comeoff so hollow mm mm. Mhm. You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings andhello, I am James robert ley and welcome to the 117th episode of theBanking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome BRian Harris to theshow. Brian is the executive creative director at Bradley and Montgomery, aboutique creative agency helping brands be magnetic by earning the audienceattention through creating things that they, the audience are attracted to andcare about. Brian and his team have worked with brands including ChaseFirst Financial Bank, Mastercard zell on deck and even Apple with their applecard. And I want to come back here to the point about earning the audience'sattention because that's exactly what BRian and I are going to be talkingabout today, the audience and more specifically the female audience andhow financial brands can win the hearts and minds of women with that. Welcometo the show, BRian. Thank you for having me. You know, before we get intothe conversation, I always like to start off on a positive note. What isone thing that you are excited about right now, Whether that be personallyor professionally, what's giving you a lot of good energy right now? Oh gosh,I have to say Tiktok tiktok tiktok, Gosh, I love Tiktok. Um you know, I'm alittle freaked out at times that how well that algorithm has learned me. Um,and what I enjoy, but that's what makes it so wonderful. Um You know, I, Iusually start start my day with a good 15 or 20 minutes of just tiktok videosand and just seeing the creativity that's out there. I mean, you know,Youtube unleashed that in the, you know, in the beginning and we saw the rise ofthe creator, but oh my gosh, it's just, and it's accelerating so much with,with Tiktok and, and I think you're onto something with that because youmentioned Tiktok and the creativity, Youtube now has more of that Tiktoklike platform that they're trying to bring in with their shorts and thecreativity and the, and almost it's the creator economy is something that I'mfascinated by because when you and I had joe policy on the show from ContentMarketing Institute and he just re released content inc and there's such afantastic opportunity now that anyone literally can, can with a creativethought, an idea can go out, build an audience, it's gonna take some time,sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, and then figure out a way to createvalue and monetize whatever that creative passion is. Um, there's a guywhose name is, his mark is that marc robert robert, He's a, I think is hislast name. My kids just turned me on to him. He's an ex Nasa engineer. He wasat Nasa and then he left and he's been doing all these like science videos andmy kids are all just learning from, So learning is even transformed because ofthese different elements. No, I mean, it's amazing. Just, you know, obviouslywe've gone through as our age, we've...

...gone through a decent amount of changeum, with media and, and we truly are into the Tiktok is the ultimate blipmedia. Um, you know, I can go from a video where I'm watching uh, you know,Home Inspector do a funny video about, about flipping, you know, fails. Youknow, all the things that someone did in the home that were horrible, youknow, right into uh, someone doing some really crazy inventive video techniques,sort of video where it's all about the transitions and things like that. Andthen on to a dog video. You know, it's just this after this, after this. Butyou know, to the point of the things that we're talking about today andparticularly women, um, you know, I find social media whether it wastwitter before, um now ticktock, it's such a great way To, to see what theaudience is talking about, what's on their mind. Um you know, if you see 2.1million people liked this video, there's a reason, you know, somethingis resonating. Um and so it's become a, I mean, it's entertainment, but it'salso emotional intelligence for me to understand, okay, oh, they're angryabout this, or they're excited about this, so it's also just a great tool.Yeah, and I think that that idea and and and and coming back to building andconnecting relationships with women and money and finances. Money empathy hasbeen something that's been big on my mind lately. And as I mentioned before,I see the female market as a tremendous opportunity for growth, perhaps even aniche market opportunity, niche marketing, niche audiences, beingfocuses on episode 71 1 11 and 1 15 for the dear listener to come back inreference, but it's because women are becoming the and and growing to be thethe the household breadwinner, and that's jumped from 23% in 2019, up from11% in 1967 is almost a quarter. And then nearly nine in 10 women who aremarried or live with a partner Said that they're also involved in spinningdecisions in their household, so 90% and that's up from just 42% in in 2012,according to research from a firm called Hearts and Wallets. And so whenwe look at this, women also control the majority of consumer spending. Butthere's a problem. And this problem is the opportunity that I see forfinancial brands as women often feel disconnected from their finances. And Iwant to dig into that to begin with. Why is that? You've written an articleabout this? Why do women feel disconnected? What's making them feeldisconnected? Where's the gap here brian? There's a few things um One ofthe just simple ones is a generational issue you can go back to. I mean, thisis what's stunning to me. You can go back to 1988 for a bill that was passed,where women no longer had to have a male signature for their business law,1988. That's 33 years ago, women who owned a business truly didn't own theirbusiness. You know, if if they wanted help from a bank, they had to find amale relative to co sign their loan. And so When you think about that, thatthat passing along of knowledge, we've we've only had a generation and a halfof time between 1988 and now. Um and so...

...were the the gender roles that are partof that as well. You know, the father isn't necessarily passing thatinformation on to the daughter. Um, it's definitely improving. I mean, Ithink we are seeing that it's just a lot of statistics you're talking aboutthat people, parents are, you know, being better about informing theirChildren and their, their female Children. But you really do have to goback to this generation issue that women just haven't had the same runwaythat men have had. What are the opportunities for financial brands tomaybe begin to bridge that gap to provide a path forward to, to reallyempower women when it comes to money, when it comes to finances becausethere's just such an inherent cognitive load and complexity tied to this. Ittakes a toll on their health and relationships and while being what'sthe opportunity here, Do you see? I think one of the things is toreassure women that they aren't that far behind. I think that gap, there's,there's a, there's a bigger perceived gap than there is in reality. Um, youknow, men will, they do have said they have some of that may be their dadpassed some of this financial knowledge onto them. There's the expectation thata man is supposed to know about money. The truth is, I think the amount ofknowledge is not that big in reality. Um, and so I think what banks have todo is to say, you know, hey, have the confidence, like, you know, more thanyou think, you know, and obviously you're more than capable. Um, and so Ithink it's, it's a lot about just just reassurance and saying, uh, you know, acop, you have the, you have the ability, um, there's just a little bit ofinformation and you need and you can be off and running and I think that pointof empowerment and then also confidence is is a key part of this becausewhenever there's that little bit of self doubt that starts to creep in, itshere's an opportunity for financial brand to come alongside and see walkwith them, you've got this, you're going in the right direction, let's getyou across to the next level to the next step. And and when you think aboutbuilding relationships, financial brands, building relationships withwomen, what's a commonly held belief that we'll just say others in thefinancial services space, they might have that you potentially disagree with.Put another way, where might others be misguided in their thinking aboutmarketing and building relationships with women and and and and that thosebeliefs could be holding them back to creating value. That's that's a good question. Um What I think there has been in someregards, banking has been kind of a, a punitive industry a long time. Um It'sall about you, do you do the right things at the right time? If you don't,we're going to charge you a fee. We're gonna, we're gonna, you know, dosomething to you and a lot of penalties, a lot of penalties enforcement. Yes.And you're seeing this shift happening where banks are realizing, oh wait aminute. Our, our job is not to be this punitive parent, you know, to be thiskind of, you know, if we're talking about this like a negative fatherfigure in a lot of ways, um Instead we're supposed to be helping you alongand you're seeing that change happened...

...quite a bit in the Fintech world whereit's like, hey, you know what, You need a couple 100 bucks until the nextpaycheck comes along. Yeah, stuff happens. What will help you out? Um Ithink you have to, there's still, there's still a lot of that oldpunitive thinking. You're not going to say that, that's and I think that'swhat you're kind of getting to. Um I think that's what the big shift banksreally have to make from a mindset is like you're not, you're not the rulemaker anymore or you shouldn't be the rule maker anymore. You're afacilitator that right there, a facilitator, a guide and something thatI've been really honing in on is a coach. Um and it comes back to moneyempathy because what we know in the financial services space, whetheryou're at a bank or credit union, You've got 5, 10 15 2030 years ofknowledge and experience doing this stuff every single day. People don't goand buy a home everyday. People don't go and get a personal loan every dayand back to the point of Fintech, we're seeing this this money empathy startingto come out with brands like uh l vest and smart purse and the financial jimout of new york who is literally it's a membership coaching program, but it'sclear that their positioning is really targeted and tailored to a femaledemographic audience. And so I want to make a point on this. Um there was aquote from a study that was sponsored by Axiom and then conducted bycornerstone advisors and this quote noted, we cannot treat women as asingle customer segment. That approach will fail. And and I agree with this, Iagree with the sentiment because the diversity of women is very broad andit's easy to make stereotypical missteps and and and and those flaws tohappen and come out very, very quickly, which can cause some brand damage. UmHow can financial brands ensure that they don't get trapped in some sort ofstereotypical bias when it comes to marketing and building relationshipswith women here. Yeah, that that's been a challenge withour industry forever. You know, I work in advertising, you know, morespecifically than even marketing, and there's always this risk that you'regoing to over generalize even when you're looking at data. Um you know,you'll you'll get twitter data and there's this thing that you're gonnajump and go, oh, this is a great piece of information, Well, you're still onlygetting the person who spoke out on twitter. Um but back to the point aboutwomen and how different both from, especially in an age perspective. Umyou know, we look at millennials right now, um one in five will identify asLGBT Q. You know, I think half of people over the age of 30 are aredivorced or not married. Um you know, there's always this thing that you juststart to go to the o the classic structure of men and women, baby andall of that kind of stuff. It's not that um and it's going to continue toto not be that in a greater fashion, especially as you get to gen z, youknow, like that one in five stat of L G B T. Q, you know, might change to twoand five. Um by the time we get to that generation, I think in fact, I think ifthere was a study I saw in Spain, um that was very close to that. Um and sothis idea that, yeah, you're talking to one type of woman, um it's just justnot not the case. So you know, you need to figure out who you're talking to.You know who is the person that you...

...want. Um And obviously differentproducts, different life stages, different parts of the country. Um Allthat can change. But yeah the key is to make sure that when you areparticularly digitally targeting where you have some of that ability to pickthe media partner um That that your P. O. V. Is correct for for the personyou're talking to, I'm doing more thinking around because because youmentioned life stage uh marketing, I'm actually doing some more thinkingaround life stage products in how a life stage product can help too.Because the big concern with Fintech, it's death by 1000 cuts. There's somuch more brand choice and options available than ever before at aconsumer level. And so incumbent financial brands, they want to retainthat P. F. I. That primary financial institution relationship. And soinstead of thinking about life stage from a marketing standpoint, we thinkabout life stage from a product standpoint and moving someone throughthese different life stages with different products designed forspecific life stage. And to me there's an opportunity, and with that, when itcomes to this idea of building relationships marketing two women, andand so what are some of the other opportunities from the work that you'vedone from the research that you've seen from the writings that you've sharedbig opportunities to to bridge this gap to bridge this divide. And and really,like, like we said before, walk alongside women on their own financialjourney to empower and ultimately build their confidence. I think one of the things is like youwere saying that the product themselves, um yeah, people are, are reaching thesedifferent stages of their life at different ages. Um and I think thatThere's a lot of value at times to showing the what I would call the theoutlier or the front edge of something. So, you know, show 27 year old womanshopping for a home on her own. Um You know, One, I don't think that thepeople look at that the same way that they would have 10, 15 years ago wouldbe like, what is, what is this, what she even doing? I don't know what ayoung woman would be doing, looking at a home, you know, like this. I am notkidding. Like that's how marketing used to think it would be. Well, we can'tshow her doing that, That's that's not realistic. Well, no one people don'treact that way now and, and yes, it may be on the front edge of the type ofcustomer, but you know what it says to that person is. Yeah, no, we want youand and bringing them into the tent. Um I think that's really it. You know,it's representation is just one of the biggest things that you can do in yourmarketing. Um You know, and I think we see that across a lot of differentthings, whether it's entertainment to advertising too. Um Politics, whateverit is, it's just there there has to be greater representation and that makes ahuge difference. Technology has transformed our world and digital haschanged the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now,consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch. If theywalk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to growloans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustratingand overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, butit doesn't have to because James robert...

...wrote the book that guides you everystep of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digitalgrowth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon Insideyou'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transformfinancial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights youcan start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans anddeposits now. Back to the show. Yeah. Yes. And and back to this point that 27year old woman buying a home. Uh I've seen it. I literally literally just hadthis conversation with my son's fifth grade teacher. We took her to lunch. UhMy son wanted to keep in touch with her. And so my wife, so why don't we inviteher to lunch and to see how our summer is going? Well, It was a four hourlunch. We had the most fantastic conversation. So she's been a teacherfor probably 10 years now, not married, Uh, owns a home, bought it out, I thinkshe said she was 27, And it was just, it was a great story of success inconfidence and how she did it. And it's like she made it and she was, you couldsee it, you could hear it in her voice, she was so proud. And I thought tomyself, if that enthusiasm was able to be captured and bottled up, what anamazing story then too. Transfer to others. I also can't help but thinkabout the conversation and episode one of five that I had with JenniferBeeston, Who is the nation's top 1% lender. And she was talking about howas a newlywed um she got into some trouble. Her and her husband wereapproved for a mortgage, but then they ended up getting the maximum amount forthe purchase price. Well, by the time that you had property tax and insurance,it put them underwater. And that was that was the reason that she became amortgage under because she did not want other people to have that sameexperience. So there's that that idea of money empathy coming back into playbecause she walked that journey herself and she's wanting to prevent othersfrom having those same experiences, pains pitfalls. Speaking about pain andin this idea of women and building relationships with women from afinancial brand. What are some of the common pains and struggles that youhave seen that you've heard about when it comes to just women and theirrelationship with with money? What might some of those be I said before, Ithink there is this, it's just confidence. Um, women already know morethan they think they know. Um, I mean that's an overstatement but ofgeneralization, you know, like said, we talked about earlier, hey, we'retalking about a wide range, but I really do believe millennial generation,gen z generation. Um, the knowledge is there, um, I think they believe there'ssome some magic or something that they don't know. There's like this littlekey that they haven't been provided and there might be little bits of thatinformation, but like I said, it's not As much as one would would think. Andso it's about that, it's about confidence. It's really saying, um, youyou have this, you know, more than you think, you know, um, and we have thelittle extra, you know, that you might need. I think the other thing, theother pain point is from an organization standpoint, you talk aboutmoney empathy, um, is digging into your organization and finding like that thatwoman you were talking about who became...

...a mortgage lender because theexperience she had, um, I think women respond well to hearing the stories,the scars, what someone else went through, that, you know, thatcommiseration, like, oh, I experienced that too. Um, if you can find people inyour organization who who have been through these things, who have, whohave, you know, also still faced. There's there's a lot of sexism outthere, there's there's still a lot of people who who treat women like thelittle lady. Um, and I think that that common experience is just a great thingif you can bring it forward and I think to build upon that thought and I'mgonna leap ahead 2 to 3 years. Um there's a great book that I'm readingright now, shout out to bryce nobles over at MX for the recommendation, butit's called The Business of belonging and it's about the role that buildingcommunities. And I see digital as a community building mechanism so thatwomen in particularly don't feel alone on this journey, they're able tocongregate and bringing this back to your point. I think you used almostlike the role of a facilitator or a connector as a financial brand to tobuild this sense of, that's what the financial jim is doing out of new york.And so you can do this at a macro level, at a larger regional or a nationalbrand, or even on a micro level with a community financial brand. Uh and andand to me thoughts on building digital community, because that really kind ofcomes back to the point you're making to start this with Tiktok and howyou've got content creators and contributors and then you've gotconsumers as well. What would that look like to build a, we'll call it acommunity of like minds to facilitate conversations so that people don't feelalone. The ultimate goal is to build their confidence regardless of ifsomeone has a relationship with said financial brand or not, it becomesalmost taking like the joe policy, content, inc approach that it's um it'sa property that's independent of our brand. It's almost what I think of whatAmerican Express did with MX Open form as they were trying to get into thatsmall business market years ago, maybe there's a play here um, to refund, Ithink there is a, what I would say is is it's maybe areal simple thought, but be where you need to be um, and when I say thatthere is the digital world where you need to be and then, and then there'sthe physical world um be a part of the physical organizations in your markets,you know, if it's uh, if there's an entrepreneurial women's organization,make sure your, your financial brand has representation there, make sure youknow your in person at the events. But then that group also has, you know,likely facebook community in twitter and instagram community, try to be apart of that, um pick the right of uh you know, we talked about creators, youknow, pick the their media now, you know, become become part of theirstories if you can because there's a lot of micro influencers, a lot ofmedium sized influencers out there uh and they gotta make content, you know,they have things they need to talk about and if you could come on and say,hey I am an expert on helping women invest, I am an expert on helping womenbudget, I am an expert in, you know,...

...just the demystification of finances,whatever that is, um I think there's just a lot of opportunity out there, Imean the biggest challenges honestly being able to, to prioritize, you know,which ones you want to be a part of. Yeah, that's like contentcollaborations and, and and and it comes back to this idea of, of nicheand niche focus that I mentioned before, I can't help but think of what agilitybank out of Houston texas is doing. Uh there are de novo they're just gettingstarted up, its female owned and it will most likely be female run. Um Itplans to be a community bank that is digitally focused to make banking. Yeah.And as its name, Agile and the president and Ceo Lauren Sparks isreally aiming for serving a diverse population of of Houston with aparticular focus on women and minorities. And so to me, it's when youget this focus um and get really clear at this ideal market segment, because Ithink that that idea of women are coming back to the point, it's such abroad overlay that there are almost niches within that broad overlay thatyou can build a community around. When you build that community, then you canfind the the connections and relationships from a quote unquoteinfluencer standpoint, and it's just a self perpetuating, self giving of valueand as a result, by creating value for others, you'll create value for thefinancial brand. And it's a long play, just like it takes time to build anyrelationship is going to take time to build community thoughts on that,because I can hear the dear listener in the back of their mind saying, oh, well,we just don't have time. We don't want to invest the time. Oh, that's what itis though. It is time. And I think that's uh that's the thing that maybe Iwrestle with the most when a financial institution approaches me because umwhen you are talking about women, when you are talking about buildingcommunity, it's a lot of not just effort on whoever you're hirings side,it's a lot of effort on your internal side. And truthfully, most peoplearen't prepared for that conversation. And if you think that this is a threemonths, six months a year. No, I mean these are these are things that take 35years to to really have the payoff for. But once it does, it's a machine likeyou were saying, you know, um it will feed itself. But yeah, it's it's awhole organizational effort that has to be put behind content and being a partof these digital communities. Yeah. And I want to dive a little bit deeper intothat because to continue to build relationships with women, to bemagnetic as i it shared before, to earn the audience attention through creatingthings that they the audience are attracted to, that they care about.What are some of the biggest roadblocks that a financial brand, a bank orcredit union must be aware of. That could hold them back from capturingsome of the opportunities that that we've conversed around here today. Whatcould stand in their way Bring down the stoic wall, That's, that's the bigthing. Um And banks will wrestle with that because they're the financialinstitution, you know, just even those words, financial institution, it sayssomething and you you really have to to...

...change your own maybe perception of whoyou were um and maybe who you're now going to be. Uh and I think that'sreally it is, is trying to be a more understanding, more empathetic, moreemotional, more just honest. Um speaking from the heart, uh sort ofbrand, I think that's what I think that's particularly, yeah, millennialsgen z is going to respond to a long term. I mean you're hitting on some keypoints that I have a lot of conversations with in our coachingprogram, that all transformation That leads to future growth. Alltransformation begins with two things. Number one telling the truth, tellingthe truth to yourself, telling the truth to your team about where you'vebeen, where you're at and where you could grow next and it's the way youcould grow next is the scary part of it because it's uncharted territory. It'sforcing people to come out of a cave of complacency. That has created a forlack of better word of pseudo confidence. Internally the world istransformed and will continue to transform. Covid has been an exerciseof what I'm saying of just change management that's going to unfold overthe next 5 to 10 years. Um It's a warm up if you will at a macro level and Ithink it's those that can feel uncomfortable can feel comfortablefeeling uncomfortable and make that a part of their operating D. N. A. Inwhich has not been the case in banking for the last 500 years. It's beenpretty stable, it's been pretty secure. But when you're talking about Fintechand now we get crypto into the conversation and defy it's like andthen you get all the changes consumer behaviors and those market trends andtechnology trends. It's it can feel like you're on a sea of chaos. And sothe best thing to do is to ascend to what I call the apex of awareness andjust take a look around, just look around objectively without emotion andjust look and learn and listen and get really good at asking good questionsand don't have any assumptions because I think when we start making theseassumptions that's what gets us into. That's why I love doing this podcastbecause just talking today asking I've learned so much and I hope that thedear listener has as well. This has been a great conversation brian. I wantto get really practical here as we wrap up here at the end. Two simplerecommendations that the dear listener can commit to take action on becauseI'll change all transformation begins with a simple commitment to take someaction to move forward, to make progress along their digital growthjourney. And I I like to call this the game of start and stop. And so to begin,what is one thing that you would recommend financial brands start doingto optimize the way that they build relationships with women. And I'm goingto add in a digital world for some context here. What what what what's theone thing they could start doing? I always I'm gonna build on something yousaid just a second ago. There is so much importance to being honest withyourself. The thing that drives me insane is Iwill see words used internally at an organization, but no one hasinternalized those words. Great points. And that that is, that's, that's sochallenging. Um, so if if you're going to put something down on paper, ifyou're going to say this is our mission or this is who we are, or this is howwe are going to relate to women, um, boy, you, you better understand it. Youreally have to understand it and you...

...really have to talk about it as anorganization and, and do it deeply, not on a surface level. Don't just get, youknow, just don't think this is marketing. Hey, I'm just gonna get thisdone and whip bang. It's done. No, it really is a commitment to understandingwhat you're saying two women and if if you don't, it's going to come off sohollow. Um, and I, and that's like, so that, that's one of the big things that,that financial, and this is true. Probably alot of our brands, but financial institutions, um, everyone gets caughtup in and moving fast and moving on to the next next thing. But you reallyhave to understand and internalize the truth. Yes, and you're right. If if this isregulated and put in that marketing box, it is destined to fail if it is notbelieved in self actualized and owned by the organization at large. If thisis indeed an organizational commitment which would require training and reviewand optimization. And I think back to your point, It's a longer game. It's,you know, you know, 18 months, three years, five years of just continuousprogress. But, but I think it's so important to measure the progress ofthis journey by looking behind, it where we've come from instead oflooking ahead at what we still have to do, because that's where thatfrustration begins to set in and uh, let's just kill back to the status quobecause it's what we know and it was safe and it was secure and that's wherewe get trapped back into the cave of complacency. But it's those that findthe courage to break free to move forward and then to create somethingnew. I buy Really believe that's what the marketplace is going to reward overthe next 5-10 years specific to the banking space here. And so if we'regoing to start this on one hand, I also need, we need to be mindful that if weadd something to our plates, we also need to clear our plates as well andlet go of something, let go of something from the past to create thatspace and time to create something new. So on the flip side, what's onerecommendation that you would have for the dear listener that they could stopdoing to ultimately maximize the relationship with women going forwardinto the future. So, so building off of that, that pointof really internalizing what you're, what you're doing now, what you'retrying to do who you're speaking to and have that deep understanding. Um, Ithink the there is this desire right now that everyone thinks that the worldis moving at a million MPH, which which is somewhat is, but people are alwayslooking down the road and there and when you do that, you're you're notdoing a great job today. Um, and I think that's really what back to apoint you're making. Let's look at what we're, how we're succeeding now andbuild a step on that. Not not just say oh my gosh, well that was great, we didthat thing checkmark move along. Um There just needs to be be in the moment,be present, really, be present. And and that's not to say don't plan, don'tthink about the future, but my gosh, people really get into that mindset ofI've done and it's over, I'm moving on to the next thing and that's not howthis is successful. No, it comes back... what we call those four digitalgrowth operating environments, you can be learning, you could be thinking, youcould be doing, you can be reviewing, but you can only be in one place at onetime um and the dangers to get stuck in the doing never creating the space andtime to review what you've done to learn from those experiences, to thinkabout the insights that you've gained and then apply it to the next iterationgoing forward brian if anyone is listening, they have questions theywant to connect, they want to continue the dialogue that we started today.What's the best way for them to reach out, say hello to you? You can justreach out to my email brian at bam ideas dot com brian at bam ideas dotcom. Once again brian, this has been a lot of fun, very insightful and thankyou so much for joining me on another episode of Banking on Digital Growth.Thank you James as always and until next time be well. Do good and makeyour bed. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on digital growth with James robert ley like what youhear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts,google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to geteven more practical improvement insights, visit www dot digital growthdot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best selling book banking ondigital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazoninside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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