Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 years ago

32) #DigitalGrowthJourney: When It Comes to Digital Growth, There’s No More Next Time w/ John Oxford


You may have heard of the 4 P’s of marketing.

Person, place, price, and promotion.

Well, in today’s marketing world, these are meaningless.

It’s time we start focusing on the 4 C’s of marketing.

In today’s Digital Growth Journey Series episode, I speak with John Oxford, Director of Marketing at Renasant Bank and author of No More Next Time, about how financial brand marketing needs to adapt to the modern — and post-COVID — era.

We discuss:

  • Why the 4 C’s are replacing the 4 P’s in modern marketing
  • Why now is the best time for digital growth
  • Why today’s marketing requires risk and aggressiveness

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Bankers mostly think about how can I eliminate risk and how can I eliminate expenses, and so marketing is complete completely different. It's always a risk to put a message out there, whether it be compliance risk, reputational risk, expense risk, there's always a risk. So you're doing something that makes you vulnerable out the gate. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Leigh, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the digital growth journeys series, where James Robert Uncovers and explores some of the industry's biggest digital marketing and sales stories of success. Let's get into the show. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Lagh and welcome to another episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the Digital Growth Journey series and I'm excited to welcome John Oxford to the show because John has a new book. No more next time. Marketing in the age of distraction. I have this here in my hand. Highly recommend you go and pick up a copy today. In addition to launching his new book, John is also the director of marketing and public relations at Nizent Bank, as well as the cohost of the marketing money podcast. Welcome to the show, John, Hey James, thanks for having me, especially with a all this going on, and I wish we could be in the same studio or same conference and but it's it does zoom, thinks cool. So it's the kind of the new world we're in right now. It really is. And you know, let's talk about that, because this, this post covid nineteen world that I'm calling it, really requires all of us to rethink about how we're positioning, about how we're marketing, about how we're communicating about our financial brands in the communities that we serve. You're on the front lines doing this and I understand that for many financial brand marketing team sells teams, leadership teams, it's so easy to feel frustrated, so easier to fill overwhelmed with everything going on. But what is one thing right now that you're excited about, based upon the work that you're doing at Your Bank? Well, one thing that's that's excited and it's in the name of of Your Company and podcast is the digital aspect of it. I'man we've had a chance to relook at how we approach banking with traditional retail customers. You know, most banks now I've moved to a teller, excuse me, a drive through on a platform with if you want to see a teller you have to make an appointment. Go inside if you need your safe deposit box or something like that. So what an opportunity to look at you re look at your website, re look at your APP re look at the interactions you have over digital and it. I think it's kind of fast forwarded banks. There's always an event about every end years or so that fast forwards banking. Remember, not eleven, we got check, twenty one. Yep, and so you could didn't go.

You didn't have to have all the paperwork before, because it's kind of moved. I think this is going to move us to a lot of customers and class realizing hey, I can do that mobile deposit. I was just slow to adopted. I can do a Zel payment, I was slow to adopted. Oh, I can do more a loan APP over the Internet. I can use Docu sign, I can do all these things. That maybe I wasn't doing before and be healthy and doing it. So it took a weird route to get there, but I think covid night teen's going to be one of those kind of bell cows for for a point when digital really became more of a priority than even it was before. It really is it's that. It's that crisis, but it's from crisis we get reinvention and we get transformation and we're going to come out on the other side to be that much better, something Jim Rouse and I have talked about on a previous podcast, and let's talk about that, that idea of reinvention, that idea of transformation. I've mentioned your book no more next time, marketing in the age of distraction. I get it. We're living in the age of distraction. We're living in the age of AI. It's exponential change happening. is but what do you mean specifically by no more next time? So in today's consumer centric market, you can start with the big ones, that Amazon's, the online ecommerce distributors. That's now expected in banking. It's just everything. You know. Can I sign up online? Can I fund my Count Online? Can I transfer? Can I pay online? Can I do a loan online and to run my Treasury Services Online? And if you have to send friction to your customers, there's friction in the experience. There will not be a next time anymore. If you can't get what you want right now. It's a it's a MIMIMI society, from memes to selfies to all the vernacular this out there. If you can't get it right now, there is no more next time. If I can't get it at this place, I'm just going to click and get it somewhere else. So you have to have your commerce, your transfer, your whatever it is that you want to call it for your bank ready for for now, because if you miss it, there's not going to be a next time. If I can't get my loan here today, I'm just clicking to the next bank. I'm not driving down the street, I'm doing it from my kitchen table with my phone in my hand at midnight if I want to. So there's no more next time if you miss your opportunity in today's marketplace, and that idea of no more next time, meeting people where they are, I think is more relevant now in this post covid nineteen world. You mentioned it you drive throughs or shut down. This is going to just like it's forcing financial brands to change our behaviors, our way of thinking. It's also forcing consumers to transform their behavior and their ways of thinking that they might not go back, and they probably won't go back because those new behaviors will be new habits, particularly when it comes to activities like banking. So the the experiences that people expect from a financial brand are being set by gaff of the Google's, the Amazon, to the facebook, the the the apples of the world. In the opening pages of your book you write you might look at this book and think, I've already seen a thousand marketing...

...books. Why does there need to be one more? It's a great question. And look, it's in the ouity, but the reader, you know, out of the beholder. But I feel like there's so much traditional person place, price promotion, the old peas I said, let's place doesn't matter anymore. Price almost doesn't matter because you can find discount you can find wholesales, you can find ways around things with banks, you can look at different pricing. So it almost doesn't matter because the value may be more important than the fee. And then people, if you talk about digital the person is important as a programmer or a data scientist or whatever you have, but it's not important as it used to be, where you would traditionally go down meet with someone and get your load and go to a credit process which credits to important. But my point of that is that I think we've moved to a foresee versus a four P and mine is is content, connection, conversion and all that's wrapped in campaigns, the delivery mechanism, and so I think it starts with content. How are you getting the customer to pay attention because they're distracted and there's no more next time. If they miss it, then how do you connect with them? Move them to a conversion and you wrap those in a campaign of delivery. So that's where what the book really goes through is the Fur seas of modern marketing. Yeah, you know, I love that, because that idea, the old world of price placement, product promotion, transforming that thinking through your forces model. But it comes back to the idea of meeting people where they are, creating value, promoting transformations of people versus the promotion of a commoditized product. Let's actually break into one of those, those specific sees the idea of connection, because this is a repeated pattern that I'm hearing from those that I've been interviewing for the podcast, along with the primary research that we've been doing here at the Digital Growth Institute. Connection, and really human connection in this digital world is going to be more important than ever before because we're in the banking of of people. Were in the business of people. It's a human interaction. Let's talk about what you call the great eight of connection. Yes, so the great eight connection are just the steps to connect with and I guess I could open up and read it to you, but but I really want to go down the point of its. It's mass intimacy and it's it's a mass communication, this intimate because of this little tool right here, this little thing that every person probably has. An I say in my book don't write to absolute so we can speak to them and it. Most people have one or two phones in fact, and their family plan with four people having them, and IPADS and iphones and androids and so is created a mass intimacy market. I think you see that with a product that just rolled out last week in Quibby, a short form content delivery that connects because you're going to bed. I can't watch it to our movie, but I can watch a seven minute show and absorbed that before I fall asleep and I think that fits to connectivity and that speak to your audience.

Don't bring negative stereotypes into it. Be Quick, be accurate and, you know, use good production value to show that you're a professional entity. But and we can talk more about quick, because I think that is a bell cow for where maybe content is going and banks should pay attention to that. I'm going to talk about it as I make rounds. But to your point of this whole thing in the connectivity. It has to connect. It can't just be the same old handshake. I used to laugh and make fun of banks in their advertising and say to the CFPB say you had to have a handshake in your advertising because every bank would show a friendly person handshaking in the AD. Well, now people don't hind shake anymore because of covid nineteen. So do adds. Do Banks even have any advertising they can put in the market place right now, because it was all handshakes? I used to laugh at that and now handshakes are pass they're done with for the time being. So that would that would be a point of connectivity. Are you connecting with where your audiences your point right now? They're not handshaking, so how are you meeting them with the narrative of where they're living their life? No handshakes, the probably not going in the bank. They're not seeing the pretty tailer line with it all cleaned up. Their banking is at their kitchen table, on their laptop, it's on their phone or it might be a phone call if they're walking through the the PPP lung process with Uba. But other than that, stuff of your dead own. It is right now, right where the consumer is, and the consumers at home. The consumer is at home and that present some challenges and a few different aspects. Let's get into the hearts and minds of people, because that isolation number one. We're communal creatures. Were meant to be together and share a sense of purpose. But if I'm at home alone, I'm isolated, and I'm a home alone, isolated, I'm worrying about my financial situation. What are the opportunities for a financial brand to provide a little bit of help, to provide even, probably more so, not just help but even hope to that person sitting at home alone, worried, stressed, frustrated. So I think there's three or four things you can do. One is we, we are in as not produce some content where we did at some that we caught there, like skits, but they're just short form content pieces. And I joke we were doing quibby before quimby was the quibby. But we did one where it was staying at home and the dog always wanted to walk, can pay attention and was bugging the person. We've done one where it was about homeschooling and it joked about how tough homeschooling is on a parent who's not used to being a teacher. And so we've done some stuff to make you feel like, yeah, I'm part of this community and that relates to me. So one is the content, the connectivity, and at the end it's not a hard brand cell. It's just, Hey, we're Inza Bank. Our tagline is understanding you. We understand our consumer. We show that in our content. Then the next part is, okay, they've kind of hung on to you and your content. How do you connect what? We have products, mobile, checking, transfer Zel, all these other products which we don't need to go those your audience. One know them, but how do you then deliver that so the customers aware? Again, we saw a big uptick in seniors, the senior demographic, calling our cost center saying hey, how do I get on online...

...banking? MMM, they've been online, they have a computer. JUST STU to not. They probably had, you know, their grandson come over and hate set up my APP and I'll get to it when I can. Or our son can you, you know, the old help me fix the VC? Our story. We've seen that a lot in some of our banking and that a newer demographic, sixty five plus, have really turned onto digital banking now and we have numbers to back that up at but it's just interesting because they could always do it. It's just like why take the time? I can get out and drive. I don't, you know, I'm retired, I have the time to just do old school banking. And now it's like, Oh, I can do this and there find out how efficient it is and how healthy it is at the same time. Yeah, and that's the idea that you know, now that we're seeing that behavior change, new habits are being formed. Odds are it's probably not going to go back to the way that it was in the pre covid nineteen world. You're talking a little bit about these go to market strategies, these these these content, pieces of short form content. One of the challenges, and you write about this in the book, that that I see with financial brand marketing teams is for far too long they've been viewed as a cost center. Some feel like they're nothing more than a glorified inhouse kin goes. Or worse, and I quote, and I've heard this a few times now, is that people think that we're just kids that play with Peyton crayons. Like, I get it. I get I get why marketing has been viewed that way historically. However, the good news for for for all of us, is that the world has changed. Marketing can prove its value and that's why you one of the the forceas you write about, is conversion. Can you provide some perspective for a financial brand marketing team, of cells, team, of leadership team, about what are the types of conversions that we can track beyond just the the affinity of brand recognition? Yeah, so, so I always say you got to start with brand, though, and the reason and then I'm going to get to your question. But I want to set it up. Sure, there's five six thousand banks right now. If you want the credit uns and there there's probably thirteen thousand of us. Let's just it could be twelve, it could be fourteen, but let's just say thirteen for a number of thousand. I believe in banking there's some some research. Seventy percent share a common word in their name. We all first national, state, trust, merchant, farmer, something like, you know in a direction north sounds like there's we share a name. So you've automatically debranded yourself with a name. Then throw in the ultimate commodity of banking, is checking, it's lending, and then, as in, a treasury and a few other products. But and then this overly regulated by a government. So you can't go out and do some of the things that fintach may try to do in some other stuff. So you're that in this box, Yep, and so you're really only way out. You can't really introduce any o the box prod products because you got a core that limits you. You've got regulations. So it's got to be brand, it's got to be what's your can you do a name? Can you do a logo? That stands out with a story, in a narrative that sets you apart. So okay, so starts to band. Let's take brand out of the way. Move to conversion because, like you said, it's just...

...a bunch of people with crayons trying to draw pretty pictures and say, Oh, look at that pretty add but it's more than that. Now it's using an mcif orcrm to track data. And then how do you put your data into play? One way we saw is, and this is a simple one, look at the bounce rate and the hit on your home page. Eighty nine to eighty five to nine percent of your of your hits, are just going their log in. They're not looking in anything on your site. Your spend all this time doing content and building all this robust you know how to video whatever. All they're doing is clicking the log in, going straight to the core and do the transaction getting out. That's why we started a content site. But that's how you can use data to look at conversions, because you're not converting anyone directly on your website. You need to go through. Is it's Youo fencing? Is it web? Is it native advertising? Is it brand and click helps on that with a lot account opening processes, but you can go through. You know, a couple of years ago we met with a major brand and big Amazon type atbs type serves and they were saying social media won't convert anybody to a bank client and I said I think it will, and I've seen a lot of proof of that. Is If you have a tracking system like social studio or the grimlins and social assurance and all these other vendors that are out there, partners that are out there to banks, and you probably do it too, you can go through and track complaints and say a bank has a complaint, will hop in right behind there and say hey, we may be able to help you, and then they click to it. If you bring the account over, you've literally formed a conversion off of social media post and that's you have to be kind of hyper active on social monitoring to do that, but that's the way you can do it. Another good conversion metric right now is look at your drive through tellers, because it covid people are just driving through for going in, and see how many of those transactions could be moved to a digital transaction. So if you see that twenty or thirty percent of your class are just cashing a check in the drift through and it's under your your maximum ceiling of a check to deposit. Pass them a note and found who does? Send them an email, since something that says hey, do you know you could be doing this, and walk them through the step to do it and you'll move them to be an a digital consumer. And it's, like you mentioned earlier. Once they do it once or twice, usually they have now adopted that pattern in their banking. Yeah, you know, what I'm hearing is two things. One, it's the art and science of marketing colliding. It's not just the pretty pictures, but it's the data and then being able to figure out what that means and applying that the context of content and context. But I really liked your your perspective to about social listening, listening to those who might be in need and in coming to them with a solution, saying hey, we're here to help. Yeah, I mean that's that's that's almost not only marketing art and science cliding, but it's like marketing and cells colliding now, and so we got all of this overlap and we're all working towards a bigger purpose which comes back to your point. It starts with brand, the idea of purpose and why do we do what we do? How can a financial brand position...

...around brand digitally if we might not have the face to face interactions that we once were used to having? Pre covid nineteen so so a lot of those content and building really good, attractive content and and you've got to get away from, and I joke about it, but the handshake and kind of the traditional, wholesome, whole spun. It's got to be more. What are you doing for the client? What value are you bringing? And in some of it can be entertainment or Infotamet or even comedy. Because, to your point on the social if I see another bank of clients having problems with another bank and they post a complaint and you come under it and you say we would love to help you. We're North West, South Trust Bank of the first, we don't know who you are, but you come by and say we're renaissance. We're truest. I'm just saying names that are kind of unique and they've heard of your brand and maybe seen it. So if they're in the southeast, we hope they've heard of us. It's like, Oh, I've seen that bank stuff. Oh, you're got. You're the guys that do sec shorts. You're the guys that do so, true are you're the guys that do dream together with the Nashville Mla soccer team. Oh, I've heard of you. Yeah, glad you reached out. So you've already built some brand awareness, or at least some brand empathy when you touch them digitally. All on their complaint. that you understand, and then you're trying to bring them and so I think it does start with brand, but then you have to back it up with the product. Yeah, that's you know, that's the digital aspect is. We could tell them where the greatest bank in the world and then if they get a not good experience, well then you've lost your brand promise. So it has to be again, art and sciences, art and science, like you said. So you said it better than I can right there. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumer shop for and buy financial services forever now. Consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have to, because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growthcom to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. Using digital to take that a little bit further, using content to really make deposits in a consumers mental trust fund, because it's they might not take action at that moment in time, because we know that...

...buying a financial product is a very complex journey. It's not point a to point B, it's Aida Zed and there's all of these little nuances that happen in between. But content, as as we talk about here at the digital inst content is the fuel of the digital growth engine. It's what makes all the gears turn, whether it's in social whether it's in marketing automation, whether it's in a crm, content is really central to everything and I think that's that's that's why I was fascinated in the book you wrote marketing is ultimately vulnerability because you're putting your message, your content, out there, and when you put anything out there's feedback. A lot of folks, you write, are scared about marketing, of the vulnerability of putting themselves out there. So not everyone is a great marketer. What do you mean by that? Well, let's think about this. You work in the financial service industry. I do as well. There's two things things bankers hate, risk and expense. They like to save money, better margin it. It's all about saving, not spending on the bank side. And then risk. They don't like risk. We like to know what's going on, we know our clients. There's the credit piece of it, and so when you got bankers mostly think about how can I eliminate risk and how can I eliminate it expenses, and so marketing is complete, completely different. It's always a risk to put a message out there, whether it be compliance risk, reputational risk, expense risk. There's always a risk. So you're doing something that makes you vulnerable out the gate. I've had plenty of campaigns that were completely rejected by executive management when we when I pitched them, and I've had plenty that it that have been like this is going to be the coolest thing you've ever done. And so it's almost like when your actors talking about when they go pitch to be in a movie or something, how many times they get turned down, even the best ones, before they get on. Like you're rejected for four hundred before you land one. It's kind of a marketing is a lot of your ideas and a lot of your creative is going to be rejected because of risk and expense. You know you want to make this huge ad, will they won't pay for it, or you want to do something that's really cool, but does it? Is it too funny? And so your bank is more of a stage column marble looking bank, and so trying to be humorous isn't really in your brand narrative. So then that gets pushed aside because of a risk that maybe, as a Steo, thinks they don't want to do. And so it is vulnerable because you're putting yourself out there. You're taking a risk on reputation, you're taking a risk on a building, an audience, and so so look, and you're doing everything gets what banks to risk and expense, because you're spending money without a sure Roi. On the front end with content. Now, look, you can build it, you can build in our model, but on the front end when you're pitching it, it's really hard to unless you just kind of making it up a true rol, especially in just brand and so look, I'm telling you, it's vultable and and markers have to be brave. I know it sounds funny, but it's like, I don't want to be demeaning towards military baskin. Being a soldier, you... to go out there and put your guns out and take your shot and a lot of times you're going to miss and a lot of times you're going to hit, but you got to be brave and I you got to be willing to take some risk and I don't think banks do that enough. And I don't mean like crazy risks, like don't get into like compliance issues and trying to mislead or anything, but you've got to get out there. I'm just banks, we're real hesitant to get out there and try to be as good at marketing it is. I think we can be. So I've been advocating for years for financial brand marketing teams to transform beyond just like the commoditized promotion of the commoditized campaign, make investments and content even to the point to where marketing looks and acts more like a media team. There you go, and I get the idea of risk. But here's the thing. If, and this is this is like just thinking out loud, how much will it cost a financial brand if they don't find the courage to commit and take action in this post covid nineteen world? What's the risk in that? Well, I think we have to look at your exact words. I don't think you'll be a brand. I think you'll just be a random money transfer building on the corner. I think he you'll, you'll, you'll be a location that people won't even think about because you won't be where they are. You won't computer, you'll be a static thing. You won't be a brand. Yeah, so, so I think postcovid it's going to be customer service is going to be an all time high that it's a different type of customer service. The ability to meet the customer from tracking Crm mcif systems, automated campaigns ai is still it depends on your audience. There's certain audience that, like frinds with the PPP loan program there were certain people that wanted a banker to talk to them every day and tell them where they are in the process that they're APP with the SBA. There are others that want to just log on, pipe in their their tax records and their payroll forms, hits in and then just wait on an email. So you really have to know which ones. But I think that's meeting the client where they want to be. I think that's where comedie banks can do really well because they still have relationship model, but if they'll invest in digital and invest in that, in technologies in that area, I believe that's where me Bates can win moving forward, is is they stay with that customer that still needs that handhold, but they can move digital. Now your major money centers, they've gone almost all digital. We've seen it play out with SBA. We've seen it play out what's going on right now. I think it's good for them because they have such a mass amount of customers it's almost hard for them to touch that small customer in a rural area. So I'm not picking on big banks all they're doing it correctly with their digital aspects, but I think community makes need to adopt more that digital aggressiveness post covid because it's going to be the way they can deliver, because now they can deliver content and they can see who's reading it, they...

...can see WHO's opening it, they can tailor it towards the customer based on certain criteria. And so I'm telling you, post COVID, if you're not into content connection and conversion, and I wrote this before I even knew what corona was going to be, it just so falls into what I think the next play is going to be. Throw the four peas out and use the three C's delivered through campaigns needed for to match the for but it's really three CS that you need to pay attention to. Yeah, you know, it's really and to come back. It's about gaining clarity into what the opportunities are. It's about building courage and commitment to move forward with the solidified strategy and then it's about having the confidence just to take the next step and apply some of this thinking, but also transforming the conversation from a conversation and moving beyond the conversation. We felt we didn't get what we needed. No, it's we didn't fail. This is what we learn and that's what we can do even better next time. So thinking about being even better next time. Let's take a moment as we wrap up and really such a great conversation with you today. John. Appreciate all the prop shit practical knowledge in the insights. I'm a financial brand marketing team leader. I'm in cells, I'm on the leadership team of a financial brand. What is one thing that you could recommend for me to not only think about but to find that courage to commit to do over the next twelve months in my own journey of growth? So, if you mentioned those are different positions, but let's hit on all of them. Sure, I think adopting digital as a platform to deliver your brand and your message. And so it's if you're not good on camera, start blogging. If you're not good on at blogging and writing, find a staff member to do it for you, ghost right for you, get out there on social media, twitter, linked in and start engaging with these audiences, engaging for your bank, and then see if you're marketing team can help you amplify that message. And you know, I've heard it said that branding is basically a promise backed up by an experience. It's a promise, so we're promising something and then when the consumer takes your promise it has to be backed about the experience. So bankers need to realize we're going to start making promises on what we can do and deliver it through digital channels. I can't tell how many bankers I've got lined up that have been at home now and have now gotten comfortable with zoom and gotten comfortable seeing themselves on camera talking and they're like, you know what, I want to do a little show, I want to do a little marketing minute every week. I want to do a little product update. So Product Update, so you're getting our service update and and testimonial stories. I know that's as old as anything, a cont testimony story, but what did you do as a bank to help your customers during covid and then how can you share those stories now that you've built that trust? That then becomes the promise built by that experience. So again it all come back to that. But if I was going to do one thing coming out of this, I would get on probably Linkedin, if not facebook's a little bitit more like family personal but I would adopt linked in, maybe post it...

...all on twitter. Two, but really attack a lot of content on what I did, my expertise and share it with the world and engage with my marketing team to help me Polish it up. You know, quick cuts, logo, maybe some some you know, music that's right, copyright free or whatever, trademark free music, Copyright Free Music, and I go out there and I would really hit my content delivery as quickly as I could afterwards. Yeah, what you're salty? Free Music. I was I was miss misquoting myself. The Reality Free Music and know what you're speaking on is such a solid path forward because really we've moved from traditionally what in financial services would have been a service economy. That became the experience economy. But my prediction is that covid nineteen is forcing us to really level up and elevate ourselves into what I'm going to call the knowledge or the expertise economy, because financial services is a very complex subject matter and you know, people oftentimes have a false sense of confidence that they know what they need to do with their money. But just like any of us, like if you have a health problem, you're going to call a doctor, if you have a car problem, you're going to go see an auto mechanic, just like if I have a money problem, I want to position my financial brand as the expert in the local market place. And I like what you said. You've got a lot of bankers who are sitting at home. They're getting comfortable using this video communication, like we are right now on zoom, but we're also getting the audio for the podcast. And recalls a conversation I had like last week with a group of thirty financial brand leaders in around table. They're like, well, what if it's not good enough? Don't let fear hold you back. That's the whole thing right there, when we talked about fear and and and risk, and then you talk about, you know, that whole thing, you know, just being vulnerable. That's what it is. And if you're in, if you're not, you're going to lose. I hate to say it that way, but you might have an old portfolio that you can manage into you retired, that you've kind of, you know, inherited in the bank. But if you're A, I would say if you're a forty is shit, younger banker, and this is not today, but, like you know, an experience banker, they're going to be able to navigate this with probably their pass portfolio, in their experience, which again to your point that they're now trusted advisor and they're vising those class what they can do. But they've already got the experience dance because they're known in the market place, they have a legacy portfolio, that know what they're doing. But if you're kind of in that middle to younger demographic digital is your platform. Look, it can be instagram pictures of your customers holding the check they got here, standing outside reopening their business. I mean there's so many stories to be told Post covid but's your point. You got to have that vulnerable building and look, just take it on the chin. When I when we did started marketing money podcast, tons of friends, we all rib each other and I was like, my friends are going to kill me, they're going to haze me so bad. Did I found out all my friends were listening to it and they would like jokingly send me text of quotes and just silly stuff. We say on the show that this is hilarious or this I learned something today and some of them are just got to learn anything. But I'm listening to you because I'm your buddy.

But, like, you've got to get through. I think a lot of the vulnerabilities of well, somebody else is do it, someone else is smarter than me, someone else knows this better. Dude, like that's done with like to build your audience. Go out there. Maybe you're better at delivering the message and that if you're not as smart, maybe they're, maybe they're better delivering, but you're smarter, like there's always a niche you can find in your personality to deliver this stuff. It's so it's got to be content delivery on your expertise as a banker. So I'm hearing really kind of two things as we wrap up. Number One, you talked about the under forty leader, but I'm I'm gonna give a different perspective. I had a my wife and I had a personal conversation recently with her asthtician here in Houston, and and this woman, her name is Linda and she has an El Skin Boutique and she's been shut down from now for like four to six weeks. Is like, I don't know how much longer I can handle this. And I said, Linda, she's sixty eight. I said, Linda, this is your opportunity to reinvent yourself. I said you have all this time on your hands, get a phone and start giving product reviews about the products that you're using with clients. Tell them, like what problem this product solved, tell them why it's important to solve that problem and show them how to use it and then you post that on Youtube and then you share that with just your clients and ask them to share that with a friend. And I said You'd do this time and time again. It's going to get easier and easier and easier. So here's the thing. You've been doing this yourself and, like you said, you know when you started the podcast you're afraid people are going to give you a hard time, but no people were listening because you were creating value for them. I think we use that term earlier. It's about value creation. If someone wants to connect with you, John, to continue the dialog that we've started today, continue the conversation. What's the best way for them to connect with you? So the best way is easily just let me up on Linkedin or you can you can email me. I do have a little like General Camp Campaign Marketing help at GMAILCOM. Campaign Marketing help at GMAILCOM. And one last thing. I'll say this because I put in my book I got one of those Google text deals and I don't have the number of memorize. It's so fresh. Six two two zero five, six two eight hundred and eighty. Six, six two two zero five, six to eight eight. You can text me at our respond if you want to have a conversation, if you want to talk about the book, If you want to make fun of me or have may make fun of you. Whatever it is, I'm game for any of that because I think we all have to help each other right now and help each other through this, and then on the other side we can all be peers and celebrate our success together. That's right, John, Hey, get the book. No more next time. Marketing in the age of distraction. John, thanks again for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thanks, James, for Shay you. Until next time. Be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast, Google podcasts or spotify, and...

...subscribe while you're there. To get even more practical, improven insights, visit www dotal growthcom to grab a preview of James Roberts best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Until next time, be well and do good.

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