Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 5 months ago

219) #ExponentialInsights - Video Communication: Give Them a Reason to Care


The foundation for every relationship is trust.

But it’s hard to gauge people’s authenticity in a digital space dominated by communication through text media.

That’s why Ethan Beute, Chief Evangelist at BombBomb and author of Human-Centered Communication, believes in the power of video communication in a post-COVID world.

By personalizing our interactions and messages through video, we can pull back the curtain of digital anonymity.

Join us as we discuss:

- Challenges financial brands face in trying to personalize experiences (10:47)

- How video establishes trust in human-centered communication (17:52)

- Why AI will never be a true substitute for the human connection (26:43)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Ethan Beute

- BombBomb

- Human-Centered Communication

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

I think a lot of people, once they get turned onto the idea, give themselves permission to do the things that they know are the right thing to do. So why aren't we doing the things we know are the right thing to do in these moments? You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings, then, hello, I am James Robert Lay and welcome to episode to nineteen of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Ethan Butte to the show. Ethan is the chief evangelist at bomb bomb and hosts of the customer experience podcast. Is also a Wall Street Journal bestselling CO author of Human Centered Communication, as well as Rehumanize Your Business and I look forward to talking with Ethan today about how financial brands, Fintechs and even mortgage companies can use video to level up the personal brands of their lenders and leaders and, as a result, level up their digital growth potential. Thank you so much. I am so looking forward to the conversation. I know even though we've barely met, we have so much in common already, uh, and I know that. So I'm looking forward to to getting into that and spending some time and things that I know we're both passionate about. Well, definitely, and I always want to start off on a positive note here with every single guest. And what's good for you right now, personally or professionally? It's it's your pick to begin sure, or this is right on the border between the two of them. Actually it's it's in both camps. I guess I'll say I'm about to take a five week sabbatical. So uh, Bom bomb started a sabbatical program. I am one of maybe the first three or four people to do it and I couldn't be more excited and anxious and nervous about taking so much time off. It's so atypical for my kind of who I am and how I approached things. I had all these plans and I and I got some wise advice from a friend of mine who had coincidentally, just changed jobs and spent the entire month of June and India with his family, waking with the sun, going to bed with the sun, taking walks together, preparing all their meals together, and I was actually reaching out to him to engage him on a project I thought I would be working on during the sabbatical, and he was like, Hey, happy to support you in whatever way makes sense, but I want to give you advice as a friend. Let's just wait till you're done with your sabbatical before we do this, and so I took that to heart. Now I'm staring down the barrel of a social media detox as well. So like there's all this like exciting, scary stuff baked into this separation from all the things that I regard as very normal. Well, I'm curious and if you, if you, if you're willing, let's maybe dive into that before we get into the opportunities for video, because it's almost like it's the antithesis of everything that we're seeing that we're hearing, and I've been a contrarian. I think it's always just it's been in my nature. When everyone is going that way, I'm gonna go that way and to see what's over there, because I'm I'm curious like that. You mentioned a digital detox and I think it's even deeper. I think it's also a dopamine detox, because we get massive amounts of dopamine hits from scrolling, from consuming media, from getting likes and Clicks and commenting, and then you're gonna separate from all of that and I think like and I'll be the first one to admit, I've struggled with digital addiction and it's almost like I I am an alcoholic working in a..., because I'm a digital anthropologist. Through a lot of coaching and counseling, I've been able to manage some of this and I'm a big believer in taking digital dopamine detoxes, because that's where we get our probably we we we disconnect with everything around us to reconnect with ourselves, even, for your friend, reconnect with nature, waking up with the sun, going, you know, going to sleep when the sun sets. So there's there's this whole deeper thing going on here. But let me when was the last time that you were just completely stepped away from social media technology screens? What does that look like for you just working in the space? I haven't it's really interesting. Yeah, in general, like I've gone through phases. My wife is a much better model for me than probably anyone else in my life in terms of stepping away, deactivating for a period of time these kinds of things and so, Um, you know, it ebbs and flows in general, but I've never gone multiple weeks in a row without logging in. I mean I removed facebook from my phone years ago. Um, I turned off the badges and notifications and things on my phone years ago, but it's just part of what I do and I love by the way, I just love the term digital anthropologists. I think when we talk about marketing and we would talk about business success, we're really still talking about all things human, no matter how digital we get, and so this intersection of sociology, psychology and anthropology is where all of this is if we want to be successful. Understanding those things matters a lot Um, even as much as understanding the technology itself. But to answer your question, very directly. I've never taken a prolonged step away because I've always told myself the story and I'm very aware of it Um that it's important for me to be there. It's important for me, it's important for the company, it's important for the ideas I embody and teach and practice and learn and share, and so I've never given myself permission to do that and at some level of feels that your responsible, but I also know it's the exact right thing to do in this experience I'm about to have. You know, maybe, maybe, and I'm just curious because we can possibly come back and just reconnect, you know, a couple of months from now. I would love to do a little bit of reflection on the journey that you're about to take, because I'm curious. You know, do you do? You Journal today presently. It's funny. journaling for me is a lot like meditation and some of these other things that so many people I know and respect and and appreciate say this changed my life, but I've never, you know, when I sit down to meditate, even with guidance, or when I sit down to journal, it's just not really my thing. But I will tell you specific to this. I've picked up two notebooks, nice little inexpensive notebooks, and I will be spending a lot more time writing than I do. I mean, I write a lot for work. I've written two and a half books on some of the things that will cover. I've written hundreds and hundreds of blog posts over the years, but Um, I don't sit down and write for myself, for the sake of my self rather than for publishing. Right, and so um it. I am dedicating myself to it, but it has not been a habit of mine. How about you? Well, you know, I would say it's kind of the thing that has transformed my life, the idea of journaling, the idea of meditation and separation. I just came back from the Texas Hill country with my family for one week and it was a digital detox. Like you, I removed social media from my phone, I removed email from my phone, I even removed my internet browser because I then found other ways to get my dopamine fixed, which was just news. I love to learn, but my wife, she's been my accountability partner, because you have to really know how to lock yourself out of Safari, because you can come back and reinstall it. So she now has the keys to the kingdom. I can't get safari back on my phone. But it is through meditation, it is through journaling, that it really transforms the mind and as a results, we're able to see things differently than how...

...we saw them before, and that then and allows us to, you know, shape new beliefs which form new behaviors that lead to actions which been repeated, our new habits. So if I look back over just the last decade of my life, I wouldn't be here had it not been for these practices. Do you mind if I give you just maybe, because I think a lot of times when when when I talk with leaders, that what holds them back from journaling is like, where do I start? How do I begin? I've never done this, or maybe I've dabbled with it and I got frustrated and, as one with a d d like, I have to create frameworks for myself. That then I'm like, well, if it works for me, maybe I can recommend it to someone else and if it helps them, great, if not, no big deal. Do you matter if I make a recommendation for you? So just simply like, ask yourself what's been going well? For me Um and that it is a framework of winning, exciting, learning and looking. And what that does? It will take your mind from the past of winning, so you're always focusing on the progress that you're making, staying out of the gap, which is I call griping about problems. So it's really kind of this full positive psychology thing. And we we know like the benefits of optimism for health. There are now scientific studies coming out around how optimists, and this is some work that Frost Bank is doing in financial services, but how optimists are better off than pessimists. So there's this whole mind thing going on here. So that's the past, winning, exciting and energizing. Well, that's the present moment. So looking out, you know everything around you. What are you feeling excited and energized about? And then there's a little bit of like past present, a mix here of you know, what have you been learning? You know over the last and this could be you know, timebound, last day, last quarter, last year, doesn't matter. So it's really appliable. And then the last one is looking. It's like, okay, what am I looking forward to? What I'm looking forward to tomorrow? What am I looking for to next week, next month, next quarter, next year? I've been doing this with my kids Um and a lot of it has just become, you know, dinner conversations and to the point. Now, if I don't ask my kids at dinner what went well for them today or what was a win for them or what was good, like dead, aren't you gonna ask me? So just a little framework, W E L L, that you and the dear listener can maybe your supply within your own journey of continued growth, because this is all about, I think, just we're learning more how to be human in a digital world. There is no roadmap. We're kind of making it up as we go along. And and you have been the CO author of two fantastic books on the subject Um and there's a lot of hype right now in financial services, in banking, in mortgages, around the need to personalize experiences. But in your book, Human Centered Communications. You know we can't just personalize, we have to get personal Um and and and, as you share, it doesn't start or end with customers. Let's let's transition the conversation here. What challenges are you seeing on this front that the dear listener must be aware of when it comes to thinking about their own financial brand, their fintech, their mortgage company. I guess I'll go straight to and that's a great observation. Thank you for bringing up personal versus personalized. That's a blog post I wrote years ago and it remains like a present theme that I think a lot of people, once they get turned onto the idea, give themselves permission to do the things that they know are the right thing to do. So why aren't we doing the things we know are the right thing to do in these moments? The difference between personalized and personal? It's the difference between dear first name and you know, hey, James, right like. There's a difference there. And personalization is inserting elements, whether they're manually inserted into some message, experience, communication flow whatever, versus making a truly personal moment. And we can all feel the difference. Right, and that's a...

...keyword. Our feelings drive thoughts, thoughts, conscious and subconscious, drive our words and decisions and behaviors, and those words, decisions and behaviors, drive business outcomes. So all of our business outcomes are driven by people's feelings and how we make them feel, how we make them feel about themselves, how we make them feel about the problem or opportunity that brought us into a commercial relationship together. How we make them feel about you as an individual human being, how you make them feel about you and your team, you and your brand, whatever the case may be. It's all about feelings, as soft as that sounds. I hope that people would buy that. logical flow of feeling strive thoughts. Thoughts drive words, decisions, behaviors, and those drive our business outcomes. And so the powerful thing about a personal moment in the context of financial services is that a I think we've all been enamored of the efficiency that it brings. Like digital transformation accelerated dramatically through the pandemic period. A lot of what we're experiencing today was inevitable, but it was maybe, depending on who you read, still three years off, maybe as far as ten years off, and it all got accelerated and compacted. So we're the experience got super, super digital really really quickly, and I think that's why we're wrestling with some of these themes that we opened on. And so the allure of a business owner, whether you're an operator in a larger business and you have some sense of ownership over your domain or whether you are a business owner yourself. It's easy to get attracted to and dwell in efficiency, but what we can lose sight of is effectiveness. Some of the things that take a little bit longer can actually be the most effective and, in the end, get us better results faster than continuing to do the efficient at a rapid, rapid pace. Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. VISIT DIGITAL GROWTH DOT com slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show, and so, to tie it back, the personal touch is so meaningful in this high risk, high vulnerability environment. What is so common for, say, the mortgage loan officer? Here we are again, here's another transaction. Here all the pieces I need, here's the order that they all flow in. Here's another frequently asked question right here. A new new day, new client, same question, same answer. Yawn, I'm bored of this. I already know how all this goes. Well, guess what, the person you're serving hasn't done a mortgage or a refi or anything in five years or eight years, or it might be their first time ever. So it might feel like I frequently asked ques and to you, or really pedestrian or boring thing to you, because it happens all the time. But for these people this is a big deal and it often requires a great deal of vulnerability. Now, my wife and I are very conservative financial decision makers, perhaps to our detriment, but we haven't made any major errors to my knowledge, so we're not embarrassed or concerned or um anxious and revealing some of our financial decisions and and laying out our financial blueprint with somebody that can help us get to a better state in the future. But that's not the case for a lot of people, and so this idea of opening themselves up and revealing some of their deepest things they maybe even lie to themselves about right, and so being present, available in personal, truly personal, letting some individual human being feel seen, heard understood, appreciated, supported valued. It's something we cannot afford to air quoting. You know, scale our way past you don't scale your way out of making these moments human and honest and personal, and that takes time,...

...but that gift of your time and attention to another human being is what is so valued in the experience. These are the moments that are the most memorable and this is where I see the greatest opportunity. Once again, as I mentioned before, kind of being a contrarian when everyone is going that way, I'm just gonna go see what's over here and is it even worthwhile? Is it even worth the conversation? And what this boils down to, I think, is relationship and you talk a lot about feelings. You talk a lot about emotions, which is very challenging in the financial services space because a lot of leaders in this space are more analytical. They're left brain. I'm not saying that they're anti emotion, but it's I do believe there's a lot of conflict in the mind that goes on and the more that we can bring this down, distill this down into model that it's easy for people who might be more analytical to understand I think it's easier for them to grasp and take hold of, which is where my wife and I we came up with this concept called the Pyramid of human relationships, and the Pyramid of human relationships has three different levels. At the foundation of every relationship is just respect, and respect is, you know from from the Linds of financial services. Help me when I, the person, the account holder, has a need, not when your bank or your credit in or your mortgage company has a need. Once we have respect, then we can level up. Then there's trust, and I'M gonna come back to that in a moment. And then once we have trust established, well, then there's love, and love we can look at as just commitment, basically, like I'm ready to commit to your brand for this said product over here now, a bridge between respect and love. It's trust, as I said, trust being built upon two things. What you a, what you do, what you say. That's communication, which is really the the entire central theme and thesis that I wrote about in banking on digital growth, and that's because communication is at the heart of all relationships. Um, how does video? How does video play into this thinking around human centered communication to establish, to build, to increase trust cool. A few key ideas here, and I love Your Your Pyramid, and I the thing that I appreciate the most about it is that you're willing and able to use the word love, which, again some people struggle within a business context, but it's a real thing. How else do you capture the most powerful, positive emotional sentiment that also packs in all of its necessary precursors, including respect and trust? Um, so really well done with that. So video, of course, is the next best thing to being there in person. Uh, and you have two types of video. You have live, synchronous video, which would be a zoom call, Microsoft team's Google meet whatever, and then you have asynchronous video. Asynchronous video is, Oh sorry, another live instagram, live facebook, live, live streaming, etcetera. And so then with asynchronous it's out of time and out of space. So synchronous video takes us out of space. Two people anywhere on the earth with the cameras in an Internet connection can connect in real time, but we have to make sure we have our time zones correct. So it overcomes distance, but it doesn't overcome time. Asynchronous video overcomes both time and distance, that's to say, and I'll give one qualifier, and then get into that. Let's set aside the asynchronous video of videos in your facebook feed videos and a linkedin feed videos and a youtube channel. What we do, and what I've spent the last decade working on as a learner, practitioner, teacher, observer, cheerleader many other roles related to this, is video messaging, video email and video mess...

...using simple recorded videos in place of what would otherwise be a few paragraphs of faceless typed out text. Um. So in that zone we're overcoming time and distance I can get to the office is seven fifteen. You know before some of US still show up in the office at BOM BOMP and in other businesses the robbing world. The vast majority of us don't, but I do, Um, and so I can, you know, when it's still quiet, send you know, three or four thank you videos to start my day a like. As you said about optimism, the expression of gratitude is a very healthy thing. Doing it, any video message a allows me just dwelling and the benefits to me personally. It allows me to express these thoughts and feelings with my whole self. It's not an intellectual exercise of I think of Judy and Judy is amazing. She did that thing for me, and so I'm gonna go to the keyboard and try to capture my thoughts and feelings and pick them into the keyboard and it's an intellectual exercise for me to execute it, and she receives it and reads it. But I mean, how many times do we see the words thanks, thank you, cheers, exclamation points, emoticons, all those are our efforts to express what we truly feel, and video allows you to express what you truly feel. She just heare one more idea here. This idea of sending video messages in place of what would otherwise be faceless typed out text allows us to give people, especially in a financial context, because of the sensitivity, the risk, the emotional exposure, the vulnerability, the trust that's required, etcetera. Communicating this way in this context allows us to express what people need and want most from our communication. What the human being needs and wants most from our communication is to know our intent. Now I'm borrowing a little bit from a gentleman named Dr Nick Morrigan. I'm using his language to cap he in the word intent, he captures a variety of things I'll just rip out really quickly here. That I would use as a instead. But intent really gets to it. It's what is your motivation? Do you seem to understand me? Do you seem to believe what you're saying? Do you seem to have my best interests in mind? Do you seem to care? All of these things are things that people are judging in every social interaction. Before they're judging how much you know. Right, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. People don't judge your competence, just using academic language. People don't Judge Your competence until they've judged your warmth, if you don't prove that you're sufficiently warm. And that then goes to this intent, motivation, sincerity, honesty, forthrightness. If you can't demonstrate those things, then they don't care how much you know. And this is just basic evolutionary psychology. If you think back, I'll just make up a number, twenty hundred years ago, years ago, if you said yes to people based only on their competence or what they were arguing or what they were suggesting, without judging what their motivation is, to share that with you or to share that with you in that way, you could easily be manipulated or take an advantage of and the consequences very well could be fatal. Now, today, the consequences aren't going to be fatal, but you could still very easily be manipulated or take an advantage of. So humans are very, very good at making these judgments of warmth and intent and motivation and sincerity. And if you're communicating in ways, let's just talk about like a lead to close scenario, if you're communicating early on, when someone has raised their hand by filling out a form, or whatever the case, maybe even if this personal referral, if you're reaching out in ways that don't allow them to assess your intent, which is to say if you're sending out faceless typed out text alone or faceless voicemails, you're not giving them the information they need to say yes in a safe, healthy, confident way. What the brain does in the absence of that data, because faceless typed out text is both visually and emotionally impoverished. If, if they don't have what they need to make the decision, they make it a conservative way that defends themselves and they say well, and this is none of this is conscious. By the way, they'll say, well, I don't know if this person... sincere, I don't know if I can trust them, I don't know if they seem to believe what they're saying, and so I'm just going to assume that they're not. And so this idea of getting the benefit of the doubt in a digital, virtual or online environment, you can't do that. You're not getting that benefit of the doubt for a variety of reasons, which is say nothing of all the active, nasty malfeasance and manipulation that that the worst actors are performing. You're also engaging in that same environment. So you're even less likely to get the benefit of the doubt. And so video is just the most human experience you can deliver when you're forced to operate digitally and virtually and if you can't be there in person or you can't be live in video, a video message is a great substitute in so many cases. And there's a lot to to to kind of come back and reinforce here. Number One. Of the decisions that we make and that inform our actions, our behaviors, are habits, are rooted in our subconscious mind. We're not even aware of what's going on and video, back to your point of the the you know, plain text versus video communication via email or asynchronous Lee or in real time video helps to fill in some of those gaps, because communication isn't just written, it isn't just verbal. As you and I right now our own zoom, we're reading each other's body language and we're able to get a lot of cues that were probably not aware of, but it's helping to inform our conscious mind of how we're, you know, having this conversation. There are three important questions for the dear listener to consider when it comes to establishing, building and increasing trust. Um and then the very first question is it's binary. It's a one or zero response. Can a prospect trust you period, end of story. If it's a zero, they do not continue. If it is one, if it's true, they continue forward. Because the second question that they must that you must answer, because they're asking, is how are they making me feel? Back to your point of warmth, friendly, inviting, and then, if they feel good, to proceed on their journey. Then the last question that we have an opportunity to answer is how can we help them? But what we end up doing is we tend to only focus on how can we help them, not thinking about how are we making them feel yet alone are they even trusting us in the first place? And so I appreciate your perspective on how video can close some of these subconscious gaps in the mind. Now another point that you made here, and I think this is where balance comes back into play, because in Human Center to communication, your book, you know that you can't automate a relationship and you touched on this before, but that's why I want to loop back to this, because automation and ai there are a big thing in financial services. Because we're moving into the strategic planning season. I know that's going to be the big topic in almost every single boardroom. I'm getting a lot of questions about it, but I'm also trying to strike a balance here. What might that balance be for financial brands, fintech, mortgage companies, to balance technology or what you write about in the book human and Tech? The quick take is high tech for high touch. Right. Um, it's when we're thinking about what tools we're going to deploy in our business. We can't just look at it in terms of you know what money is it going to save us. We need to find this balance of effectiveness and efficiency, effectiveness being how can we leverage tech to take away the things that slow us down, that we're not as good as machines at, so that we can do more of the things that we're superior at? and Um, I'll just give you a quote, or is it will be a paraphrase in case I call it a paraphrase... case that I'll get it exactly right. So one of the my favorite books that I've ever read, and I've read it like five times actually, a collection of essays by a German economist UH named Ernest Schumacher. and Um, it's called smallest, beautiful subtitles economics, as if people mattered. And so it really is a human centered approach to economics. And the quote goes something like this. Every organization must continually strive to find the balance between the orderliness of order and the disorderliness of creative freedom. And the problem inherent in large scale organization is that it prioritizes, as a natural bias and tendency toward the orderliness of order at the expense of creative freedom. So again, orderliness of order, disorderliness of creative freedom. So let's substitute some words there. orderliness of order is repetitive, efficient, automated. disorderliness of creative freedom is messy, human, confusing, emotionally charged, vulnerable. You know where is the trust like? And so to speak to the analytical person you're referring to before as kind of a proxy, for you know where a lot of people are in these spaces. We all know intuitively as human beings, that when people say yes, yes, I'll sign this contract. Yes, Um, I want to do this loan with you. Yes, I trust you to create this plan and execute it on my behalf, all of these yeses are based in this disorderly, hard to measure, hard to understand. We all know intuitively that people say yes because of those reasons, especially in this insanely commoditized space, right and so we must be honest with ourselves. We don't need to name any of the names because we all know them. Whether it's real estate, mortgage banking, financial advisory, insurance, there are there are tools and systems, entire companies built on the idea that we can get the human out of this thing, and we've seen one step forward, two steps back for a lot of them. Because haven't figured out how do we fill in this missing gap. And so what I would suggest to a human being that is in a customer facing role in any of these industries that are characterized by big decisions, big impact, milestones in your life, some risks, some vulnerability, some exposure to some truths in my life and the decisions that I've made and helping me with my problems are helping me capitalize on an opportunity. If you are to stay involved in this process, then you need to dwell in the disorderliness of creative freedom and use the technology to free you up to do so, to free you up to find ways to create personal moments, not just to apply more tech to create personalized moments. To go back to another thing that you um smartly pulled out of some of the stages, I appreciate that too. So it's like this. It's this tension and balance. The answer is, and I see this all the time, I spent a lot of time on social that's why I'm so excited and afraid to away from it. You see so much tension in these two things and so many people treat any of these discussions as either or, and we know that the answer ninety nine, point eight, seven times out of a hundred, is both and not either or, and so if you are over biasing toward giving the tools and the machine all the responsibility, you're making a mistake. Likewise, if you are insisting on putting your thumbprint on every single thing that happens, you're probably also not creating as healthy and sustainable a business as your customers deserve. And so it's really finding that healthy balance between the two. And when you're deciding, you know what to automate and what not to A. of course it's about balance. B, Look for off ramps. I see this mistake so many times, not just in this the industries that you um focus on and specialize in, but across all customer experiences. There aren't enough off ramps um where technology is deployed. This is the rage click, this is the smashing is zero button, like I just want to talk to a...

...human. You know these things create off ramps and then create sensors and alarms that either a tell the machines to offer ramp to a human being or give people the option to say I'm ready for a human being now, before just keeping them in some death loop. Of Confusion and frustration. So, Um, I know there was a lot there too, but you're asking me questions. I care a lot about. Oh No, and I appreciate the passion and that's why I want to kind of just loop back and reinforce a couple of key points. Number One, small is beautiful. I remember probably in twenty nineteen, whenever I was writing banking on digital growth, I was telling my wife, I'm like just watch, and this was before Covid I was like, just watch, the micro is going to beat the macro over the next decade. And she's like well, what do you mean? And so she's really big into just clothes and fashion. I said, you know, we were already seeing the decline of a lot of larger, you know, retailer brands. But I said, okay, here's a great example. You know, you've got maybe a high end retailer or like a macy's or a folies, you know, seares was already kind of on the cutting block back then, and J C Penney and and I said they're going to struggle or go away. But I said all of you kind of like your boutique niche high end brands. They're fine they're gonna figure out a way. They've they've been around for, you know, a hundred, hundreds of years in some cases, like the big fashion houses coming out of France and Europe and Italy. But then, I said, the other thing, though, is watch you're going to have people that we have no idea who they are, who are building communities on instagram and Tiktok, for example. They're going to start coming out with their own fashion lines. And sure enough, she has bought clothes from individuals that we didn't know who they were three years ago. And now we're seeing more headlines of larger retailers. You know, you know about the file bankruptcy, and it's because the micro has the potential to continue to beat the macro. Why? People buy from people, People Trust people, and I've been saying and I will continue to say, and it's been a big theme on this podcast, like the power of the individual personal brand, of the lender or the leader Um and I get it. It makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable because what you're talking about is kind of this uh chaos, uh disorder, versus being able to control things and when we can control the macro brand experience, but if we empower our individual teams and our lenders and our leaders to go out and build these personal brands, are we putting ourselves at risk? And I'm like no, like you send people out into the communities to go to chambers of commerce events and you don't even think twice about it. Why can't we empower them to use tools, to use technology like video that allow them to literally hack time? Back to your point of your example, earlier, you know, you get in, you send three gratitude videos to start your day a so you're already in a positive, energetic state. What holds US back? What holds I think not even organizations, because there's a whole that's a whole cultural issue. I think back to your point about digital transformation. We see six digital transformation initiatives fail or failed to me the expectations, not because of technology but because of the people issue here. And so, instead of trying to take transformation and push it in from the organizational level to the team team to the individual, let's focus on the individual first. And so what holds us back when it comes to at least trying new communication tools like video, video, email, where are the limitations that are often rooted deep in our subconscious mind. I'll give you two, and I like that you walked it straight down to the individual level, because that bypasses a couple other ones. I always like to like to hit. So at the immediate level it's I'm already um sufficiently productive. I like my results, I like where I am in my career. I've got a healthy book of business. Why Bother? Right. So, that's the first... Right, I am, I'm successful. People tell me I'm successful. I'm in the top ten percent or most of the time. I'm satisfied with my income. Why would I bother? So that's one like and that that would apply to any change at all. The other one, specific to video, is fear of judgment and fear of rejection. Again, from an evolutionary psychology standpoint, one of the things we fear the most is to be judged and rejected by our tribe. Because again, I'll go to a twenty. I think I used twenty years earlier, years ago, if we were judged and rejected by our peers in our tribe, we would die. We would die in the desert or we would die in the mountain side or we would die in the plains, wherever we were, and so this is still very deep in us. And so this idea of and I'll compare it again to synchronous videos. So most people are comfortable now getting on a zoom meeting. Most people are willing to turn their cameras on, but it's like an in person meeting, like a coffee or a lunch or a sales presentation. Afterward you might beat yourself up a little bit like, Oh, I missed the chance to to add this extra idea, or I wish I hadn't said it that way, or I wish I had been paying more attention to the other decision maker in the room, Um, and reading her body language so that I could have blah, blah, Blah right. So you might judge yourself a little bit afterward, but there's no repeating it. The problem for human beings who fear judgment and rejection more than they're curious about Um, the outcome of a new and different and better behavior is that they can play these videos back. So of course you have. What do I say? When do I do it? Am I set up right? I think the set up right again has been removed by the zoom experience during the pandemic. But these other elements of when would actually send a video message instead of text. What do I say? How do I get into it and get out of it? These are things that require some practice, Um, to get comfortable and confident. But the problem for a lot of humans early on is that as soon as they hit stop, you know that they know who they're reaching out to, they know why, they know about what they want to say. They do it, they have they can play it back and I tell the story and Rehumanize Your Business. You know, I'll never forget the first time I heard my own recorded voice on an audio cassette. It blew my mind. I was like, who's that? Like I recognized my friend on this tape, but who is that other person? Right, and so this I we're not used to seeing and hearing ourselves. So in a live video we can see what we look like, but it comes and goes and we don't dwell in it. But with a recorded video we can play it back over and over and over again and start telling ourselves these lies of I don't look right, I didn't say it right, I said Um too many times. All these things that you do anyway when you're across the table over coffee or lunch or when you're on a zoom meeting and so Um, I think that's the number one stop is. This is new, this is different. I don't like the way I look, I don't like the way I sound, I'm not comfortable or confident in this zone and so I'm going to quit before I ever started. In earnest, what I would encourage anyone to do, just to close that loop is reach out to two or three or four people a day, whether you're using bom bomb or another tool, make a commitment to send two or three videos a day for a week. Reach out to people you know and who know you, reach out to people you love and who love you, and say things like thank you, good job, congratulations, I just noticed that, or I was sorry to see who I was sorry to hear. Simple messages of acknowledgement, appreciation and I promise, if you said I just I said to a day for a week. So let's just say you send ten. I promise that you'll get at least at least four replies from people you know and who know you that validate that this is in fact different and better and you're going to feel it in the nature of the reply. It's not just and then when we broughten this out and we start sending to prospects, customers, past clients are peers, potential strategic... are referral partners, when you start broadening that reach and identifying other opportunities to do it. I'm happy to do that with anybody, by the way, and I've published a number of things besides the two books to help with that. As you broaden it out, it's not just the quantity of replies that you'll get, and you will get that, especially in a prospecting mode, Um to the degree that you're doing in a relevant and helpful way. It's the quality of replies you will no one has ever told you that's the best email I've ever got. But if someone reaches out with a question, Hey, I noticed this and I noticed that the two are kind of ad odds in my mind. I don't understand why this is the case. And you record a two minute and twelve second video that says hey, I know exactly what you're talking about. I wondered the same thing myself. People ask me this question now and then. Here are two different ways to think about it. And here's what I think that means for you. Thanks so much for reaching out to me. If you ever have any other questions, continue to reach out to me. I am your person for these types of things. Appreciate you so much. I hope you and your wife are having an awesome summer and I hope Jenny makes captain of the soccer team again. Have a great day. Right. That's the kind of thing that that is truly remarkable and the kind of thing that people want to tell other people about. And, by the way, you probably saved yourself six to eight minutes in just talking the reply out then typing it out. Absolutely absolutely, and there's a couple of points that I'm gonna come back and reinforce here. Number one, smart, smart. Number One, start small, and you know what, this is just for the production team. Don't cut that, don't cut this either, because I think that's a key point here. Like, if this was not being recorded, we would just keep going on, but because this is being recorded, we can come back and edit that out and clean it up. No, that that's not real life, like if and no one's gonna beat each other up over it. It's just how things are exactly. So let's keep that in there, because most likely that would just get cut. So you're getting a little bit of behind the scenes on that. But start small and start internally. I mean we we just had a conversation Audrey, who is our obsolete and I about some of the works from Dr B J fog with tiny habits, and we're also big believers and atomic habits by James Clear and it's like it's just simple act of starting. That is probably some of the biggest barriers. And so when you start recording, make a commitment, you're not gonna hit the Stop Button. You're just gonna keep rolling. If you flub it up like I just did here, you're just gonna keep rolling. You're just gonna keep going. But start internally too, because I think when you work with like your internal team, it's a safe space before you even begin going externally. And I like the idea of establishing two videos, you know, over the course of five days. That's ten and then it's like okay, well, we can expect three to four positive responses. Well, that then, you know, makes it a little you know, dopamine affirmation hit for us like Oh they love me, they they really love me, and I I'm good enough, right, and so there's validation. But then I'm gonna come back to, you know, human center, to communication. Uh. You share something here which is on page two. Two. Use Frameworks, not a script, and I think that's a whole conversation for another day. And get the book Um, Human Communication, get rehumanized your business to continue expanding your thoughts on this, because it is your thought that's going to transform your beliefs, which transform your behaviors. Your actions, which were repeated, become your predictable future through habits. And so, as we wrap up, first and foremost, Ethan, thank you for the time. Thank you for the conversation. This has been highly enlightening and highly energizing for me. What is the best way for someone to connect with and continue the conversation that we've started here today? Yeah, absolutely. First, thank you. I mean, there's so much shared vision and values around this stuff between us and I'm so glad be connected and I look forward to...

...future conversations, recorded or not. Uh. And so, if folks really enjoyed this, when you can find me out, pretty much all social networks, Ethan Butte, last name is spelled B E ut e bomb bomb is bombomb dot com and we are bomb bomb on all the social networks. Can Try to absolutely free publish a lot of stuff. We do a lot of live training, and so, if you are interested in some of these core ideas and you would like to find ways to restore that personal human touch and deleverage your very best asset, which is who you are, like in a commoditized space, you are your own best differentiator. Why are you hiding behind this cloak of digital anonymity? Will, first and foremost, probably because you haven't recognized the opportunity to shed it and get more present with more people, even in a digital and virtual posture. Um. So, if you're curious in these themes, this is where we live, this is what we've been doing for a decade and, Um, I would love to hear from you all. My only qualifier is again, I'M gonna be conference social for a little while. So, but I promise I'll get back to you. I will make time to get back to everyone that reaches out and engages with me on these themes and topics, and I not only will this change our business results. I think we talked a bit about that already. Like this is something that customers and prospects and team members and recruits can feel. This will also change business culture and change it for the positive. It's about finding the time where we can to see and hear and appreciate each other Um and I think if we're going to create healthy, sustainable businesses, their businesses that we enjoy being in and operating in Um. It's not a it's not a duty or an obligation, it's a privilege. And so let's make this fun again and let's spend more time in relationship with other people, because that's where it's at. Let's make this fun. This has been fun. Connect with Ethan, learned from Ethan, grow with Ethan. Ethan. Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thank you. Until next time and, as always, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay. To get even more practical and proven insights, along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growth dot com slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs. Until next time, be well and do good,.

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