Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 11 months ago

118) #ExponentialInsights: Are You Wasting Your Sales Team?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

How much time does your sales team spend calling voicemail inboxes? 

Afterwards, do they have to punch that call into a CRM? 

If so, you might be wasting one of your financial brand's most valuable resources. 

Salespeople are too important to waste on anything other than speaking with customers. 

So says my latest guest, Chris Beall , CEO at ConnectAndSell , an expert in the most effective ways to utilize sales teams.

In this episode, we discuss:

How automation can help you make the most of your sales team

The best phrase to use on an unscheduled call

The two biggest mistakes holding financial brands back

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...recognizing that you are the problem. Not yet. The solution is the key to any call that's unscheduled, you know? Yeah. You're listening to banking on digital growth With James robert lay a Podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 118th episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome chris bill to the show. Chris is the Ceo at connect and sell, which is the world's only technology that gets your best, sells people 10 times more live conversations with qualified prospects every day and something that we're seeing as a massive opportunity. Four financial brands who are generating 10 times more leads for loans and deposits through the methodologies. They are applying through the banking on digital growth program. So welcome to the show today chris, it's good to have you here. Thank you James. It is a wonderful day today. It is. And on that note, let's get things started off on the positive side. What, what are you most excited and energized about right now? What's good for you? Well, two things. One is kind of personal. I've finally managed to start writing the book. I've been Putting off for quite a while. I've been doing the podcast 92 episodes. You know, it was all about the book and I just finished chapter three this morning and I like the Voice and I like the way it's flowing. So finally, finally, finally, I'm excited about that personally and professionally, Really, what's going on in our business is just tremendous. I mean, I hate to say we benefited from Covid, but we benefited from Covid and now what we're seeing is that the hybrid work forever situation that some people are denying and those people will find themselves on the wrong side of history That that is being very helpful with regard to having people think through how to sales work. You know, if it's no longer just schmoozing and I've got one company that we work with, it's got about 400 reps, 400 producers in the insurance space. And they were never people who use the phone to do anything. They smoothed, they took people to play golf, they took him to lunch. They did all that good stuff. All sounds fun to me. I'm playing golf on thursday. What the heck! Right. But they didn't use the phone and we took him in to connect to self taught on how to have great conversations, be confident and competent and they are now the top producing company that we work with and it's amazing to see guys who never called before gals who never called before converting at 25 30 35% conversation and meeting with Cfs. I'm curious to get your take on this because I'm in agreement with you that this work from home work from anywhere will be a model that sticks around why in your mind, do people fight that? What's the resistance? Because I mean, I think even a couple of the big national banks for like you're coming back to the office, we're probably going to see a rubber band effect of people bouncing back the other way. But what's your take on this? Yeah, I think the reason that folks resisted is just unfamiliar. I mean, you manage a certain way, you know, and it works. And so it's like, well, let's keep doing what works. What's funny is this thing worked also, But it felt funny.

It felt weird. It's like, oh my God, you know, am I really in control? I really know what my folks are doing. I've got a situation indirectly. I know of a company where the ceo counts cars in the parking lot. Pretty good sized company. And guess what? The number of cars in the parking lot keeps going down because the people are leaving. And I think the reason it's here to stay has almost nothing to do with current place. And that's what everybody is focused on, Their, focused on our current staff needs to do X, Y or Z. We're going to tell them what to do and Goddammit, they're going to do it right? And meanwhile it's like, wait, aren't you competing for new staff over time and it's their decisions that count because as long as there's a better offer and now a better offer includes, hey, why approve your family? That's a better offer than they're going to take it. And I think too, it's almost like once once people got the confidence to sell and to connect in this new type of reality, then I was like, oh, now we're gonna go back to the way things were before. But it's almost with the why? It's, it's, it's that we have four kids and I hear each of my kids why? And it's almost like they want to know that deeper meeting. And so let's reflect back over the last 12, 18 months thinking about cells, the cells role at a financial institution. What has changed most, what has transformed most for them and then to follow that, what are you most hopeful and optimistic about as we continue to move forward into this, into this new world here. Yes. I think the big transformation is that folks had to learn how to play the trust game, so to speak, in the correct way when they're not physically with somebody. And I think that's just a case of you lose a little, you lose some means that you had before that handshake, you know, here's the pen to take with you and all that kind of stuff, right? And you gain something which is you gain an awful lot of time and you also gain something else, which is really the opportunity to be kind of in your own world, right? You're not on their turf, they're not on your turf. And I think that's been a big adjustment for people to figure out how to play in sales when you're not on anybody's turf. And that's really an interesting adaptation because we're very physical animals and we do this thing that or in class called status alignment and part of status alignment. In fact, he tells the story in his book flip the script is a story of status alignment with a young person who's parking orange, very fancy car that I don't know if he owns it. I think he doesn't at a party and he flips the kid the keys because of what the kids said about the fancy car. You know, I have confidence in him. And when I read this story, I thought very physical, right? It's not, I hand you the keys and you can go park my car without ruining it. It was that flip of the keys. That was part of the story. We're very physical beings and we've had to get used to being not nonphysical, just a little less physical. What I'm optimistic about is it seems like everybody's done really well at it and they're learning simple little things by fiancee Helen Fenucci was giving a talk down in Dallas last week at a conference, she was doing a keynote and she had two things in her keynote. It was about this revolution where we're all fighting for talent. The war is for talent now, not for customers. And that's like the big change, right? The war is for talent and you compete with everybody. They used to be with her customers and you competed with a few folks that you knew. So she has a slide that shows this transformation from the up into the right chart where Microsoft or company is competing with three or four others who would, here's the talent in the middle of the picture and suddenly the number of competitors...

...explodes and becomes everybody right? So here you have this, this massive thing. And she said, you know, one of the things that, That you can think about it, even when you're retaining talent is, do you set your Zoom meetings or your team's meetings for 30 minutes or 25 minutes? She says, I've learned to set them for 25 minutes and everybody's life is better. So I think we're learning, I'll call it the micro adaptations that were used to in the physical world where in the physical world we knew even stupid things like how to handle the metering light onto the freeway. It seems trivial. No B You ever see somebody who just got their driver's license try to figure out what to do with that thing. Yeah, it's not fun. It's not fun, Right? So we get, we do all these little things in life because we adapt them. Then we forget that we adapted. We are now really doing a good job across the entire economy of adapting to a world where we don't get in a car, don't get in a plane, don't get on a train, but actually interact as human beings remotely. And I think we're just getting really good at it. And that's why I think this whole hybrid thing, it's not what it's going to stay, it's going to stake the senior executives all move to wherever they're not moving back. They're the ones who moved right on the money, they had it up there, not moving back. So it's an interesting times. You mentioned a couple of things that I want to touch on. Its this idea that we're no longer playing selling in a physical world. People aren't coming to the branch anymore and if they are it's probably more transactional but but Covid from the consumer side transformed that behavior uptick in mobile adoption, mobile banking. And I like this idea. What you mentioned. We don't have home field advantage, we're playing on a neutral field. And I think one of the biggest opportunities for financial brands is to generate leads for a marketing team to generate leads digitally for a sells team to then follow up with whether that be um over the whether that be through some type of set zoom like video conversation. And that we found through our research the faster that we can get one human being in contact and connected with another human being. There's a higher propensity for conversion, particularly in a complex cell, like a mortgage for example or a small business loan. And you note from our previous conversation that starting relationships with a human voice is not only essential but it's critical for future growth and that human voice could be over the phone, it could be video, it could be the podcast. Even as we're talking, talk to me about the human voice and the importance this plays in building relationships. Oh yeah, it's my favorite topic. I mean when we communicate digitally in text, we're really limited by the amount of information we can get across. And I'm an old computer science guy, right? I'm a physicist, mathematician. It fell into doing computer programming because it was really something said about banks. Why did he rob banks? It's where the money is. Hate to bring up an uncomfortable topic. But that's what Willie said. And you know what? His words? His words not yours, his words not mine. But it is a great little phrase and it does stick in your head, right. And uh you know, so I got into programming and one of the first things I did as this guy with the science background was asked, well what's the science of this stuff? And it turns out it's called Information Science. And there's this for Guy named Shannon who wrote this thing, you know, this information theory up. And when you look at an email, email has about 5000 bits of information in it. That is the equivalent of one quarter of one second of human conversation. If you can get somebody to read a whole email and get the emotions exactly right from your words, which they can't possibly do no...

...matter what kind of a writer you are, then you have gotten the equivalent of talking with them for one quarter of a second and listening to them for one quarter of a second. There's just not enough information in pure digital to start a relationship based on trust. Because trust is not a thinking thing. Trust is a feeling thing. It comes from way inside our brains, the old old brain crock brain that says, do I trust you until I run away from it? And generally I'm kind of triggered up to run away. That's that's my first thing to do. You're a stranger, I'm out of here, right, That's the safe place, stranger and danger rhyme for a reason. So how do we overcome that? Given that especially business to consumer, it's bad enough. I got to trust your bank before I'm going to trust him with my money because I care about my money. But if I'm running a business and I'm going to go into business with the bank, that's way beyond my money. That's everything. That's my family's economics, my kid's college education, it's my retirement. It's whether my dog loves me, it is everything, my legacy, it's my legacy. So how, how am I going to trust you compared to the next person? Well, it turns out seven seconds a conversation can get that done because seven seconds of conversation is what? Seven times four, that's 28 perfectly red and digested emails. What you can't achieve. So go get the seven seconds of conversation, then send the email, then send the invitation to the meeting, then send the outreach on Lincoln within the context of the trust you built. It's interesting. I just took six days complete digital detox, my wife and our four kids. We went down to the beach house in Galveston and it was a great time to just relax and reconnect and almost reset the brain. And I literally had because I I come from an M. I. S. Background management information systems, did a lot of programming back in the day. But I was on a run and I was thinking about if we can program computers, there's that idea of programming the mind as well. You've got influence like with marketing and sales, you've got technology now ai and automation, you've got human behavior. But the brain kind of sits at the the center of all of this and you're right this this old brain what I call the binary brain because it's can I trust you? It's either a one or a zero. It's a true or false. And I want to come back to this point about the seven seconds. These these first seven seconds of a call. Their most crucial. Why is that? And really, how can you build trust in those first seven seconds? What is something? I'm a mortgage lender? I'm working commercial, I work in retail on personal loans. What can I do? I get a lead from my marketing team, an inbound lead. I'm gonna then do an outbound. So it's some, it's somewhat warm. There's still some like type of a need. But what can I do in those first seven seconds? Well, here's what you shouldn't do is refer to the fact that they gave you the league. It's like sending somebody an email and then calling them up and saying, did you read my email? It's like there's two answers. They're both bad. So just don't do that. Right? Hey, I see that you put in your stuff on my website. Oh, I made that mistake, wow. Thanks for reminding me. You know, so you've got to realize that the starting point of every single person you call, when they realize they don't know you is that they're afraid of you. That's important. That actually is the best thing in the world. But it's also true. Why is it so good? It's because they're afraid of you. You're in control of relieving their fear because they're afraid you're going to try to do something to him. Probably sell something to them. You know how salespeople like the corner people? Hey, if I could show you a way to save $178...

...a month and also keep your milk colder and have your kids love you more, would you immediately give me all of your money? That's kind of the salespersons tactic, right? I'm going to corner you. I'm going to corner you. I'm going to corner you and that's how you already know. They don't want to corner nobody likes to be cornered. That's the worst thing in the world. So what you have an opportunity to do is to simply Do two things, you can show them that you see the world through their eyes by being accountable for scaring them. And there's a really simple phrase you can use to make that happen. You have to say it just right. You just say, I know I'm an interruption because the fact of the matter is you're a bad thing and if you say you're a bad thing before they have a chance to say that even in their head, then you're ahead, you're ahead of them. You're showing them you see the world through their eyes. Then you just say in a playful, curious voice, we say something that offers them a solution to the problem, which is you you're the problem. So offer a solution to the problem and have 27 seconds tell you why I call boom, boom boom. The voice goes up a couple of times. It's playful, it's curious and it offers a solution to the problem they have right now, recognizing that you are the problem. Not yet. The solution is the key to any call that's unscheduled And this. I don't care if they've sent 500 things to you saying call me, call me, call me. It's still cold. It's cold in the moment. It's cold in the moment. So that's great. Problem is reps don't like to do this and the reason they don't like to do it is he wants to throw themselves under the bus, who wants to be the bad thing. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch. If they walk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside, you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show, people reps they think they're the hero in the narrative and not like how you're framing this, that they're actually the problem and people are afraid. It's that does that human nature, it's coming back to the earliest days of the cave. We see another person, well, they're a threat. We hear another person's voice, there's a threat. No matter how much they might have made that inbound requests, you're still interrupting their flow their day. And so the opportunity, if I could distill this down empathy, I guess, is like, like, like almost falling on your own sword if you will, it seems like marketing and cells are always at odds with one another. Marketing is generating leads. And the complaint of cells that you're not following up with these leads. Cells, complaints of marketing, they're not the right leeds, finger pointing and blaming leads to fighting. It's like my kids, they're always pointing fingers. And who started what I'm like, I don't care. We're all on the same team. We have to work together here because that that fighting leads to competition. That competition leads to chaos internally. And it's not collaboration, it's not...

...growth bound. And how might when we think about this idea of cells and legion from marketing, how might marketing and sells teams improve their relationships so that we get what we want at the end of the day, which is more loans. It's more deposits. Were all playing the same team. What are your thoughts on that? Well, you got to look at what each each side needs and I will have them besides for the moment, because one is doing one. I mean, marketing could be outside the company for all, you know, right outside the bank. And sales could be too interestingly enough of all the functions in the world, you can move outside of outside of the firm, you can move sales and marketing out and if they execute perfectly, you don't care because the back ends does what the back end does. So marketing needs feedback. And the only way to get feedback is to talk to every lead that will talk with you because you feedback of silence is not a form of feedback in the marketplace. It just indicates you failed to get ahold of somebody. So marketing desperately needs feedback and doesn't get it from sales because of this simple mechanical reason Sales has a one in 20 shot of getting somebody on the phone when they call them and everything else results in silence. I send you an email. If you don't reply that silence, it's not feedback. People are actually treating non events as events. Oh, I made a phone call you didn't answer. That's a step in my sequence. I was just talking to an expert the other day about this and I said, why do you count a phone call? Which didn't even happen as far as the prospect is concerned as a step in a sequence. It's like to the prospect, it didn't happen. So how could it possibly be important in the answer as well? Because the reps got to make those every once in a while. So in fact my whole business all we do it connect and sell us a look where you say phone call, I'll say conversation and if we have enough conversations, marketing gets feedback and can now tune up their lead gen mechanism to deliver more good stuff because they get feedback in this form, not opinions, conversation to meeting conversion rates. So marketing is expert at segment. If you give them feedback, they'll segment and then amplify the good stuff with no feedback, there's nothing a segment, we're left guessing and sales people's opinion is not interesting, worse, sales people will say this is a bad lead because they're hard to reach. I tell you and B two B the good leads are the hardest to reach. Their called busy people. They're the ones off making money. You can't bank with somebody who's not making money. That's a crazy thing to do, right? You gotta, you gotta get conversations with busy people. Busy people will answer the phone about one in 20 times. Sales gives up after two attempts. So now we're left with what the entire marketing input and that whole budget that went with, it has just gone into a weird waste state. Here's my analogy, I was once on the isle of Skye and got to got to go to the Talisker distillery, I happen to like good single malt whiskies, and so, you know, always, always take the kids, especially when they were old enough and they were just old enough. So we go to this fascinating place where a much oystermen are doing part time work in a distillery and here's the mother liquor over here, which is essentially beer, and there's a big pipe goes up into the ceiling, goes across to another building and comes down into the stills. Why Casteels blow up every once in a while and you may as well contain the damage, right, keep it over there. So here's this pipe and I'm looking at it thinking Marketing is over here and sales is over there. Now, if this pipe were leaking 91% of the mother liquor on the floor, would you say you have an alignment problem? No, you have a leakage problem. You know, you can't tell if it would have been good, bad or indifferent and still, unless you can deliver it To the still and the phone call itself isn't enough. It's a 95%...

...leakage operation. You got to have the conversation conversation. Yeah. And so the opportunity and I took a note on this. An opportunity is to create that feedback loop for marketing Through working with cells to get that conversation. Because calls aren't enough. It has to move to that conversation. And I think this is an interesting opportunity because 60-85% of all digital transformation projects fail, not because of technology. The technology is, I mean at this point is pretty sound regardless of the flavor of the brand of the platform and then we say pretty tech agnostic and we see this particularly around things like marketing, automation crm and and you believe that the most powerful part of any software system is the human being that we inappropriately call the user and that the value in software is to let the technology the computer does what it does very well to go faster without getting bored in order to free up human potential. And so what's the opportunity here for financial brands to free up the human potential to have more? I think the end goal to have more conversations to maximize cells. Well, I've got one point of view because when you run a business you end up with a point of view wrapped up in that business, right? It's one of the parochial issues of being a ceo as you get the little tunnel vision, My tunnel vision is says this our sales people are too precious a resource to waste doing anything other than talking to people and helping them see that there's potential solutions to the problems they have. Which means eliciting confessions from folks about their problems. This is a huge skill. If you have it, you should be using it all day long. That means they shouldn't be doing anything else. So they shouldn't be filling up data in a crm that should be done for them. They shouldn't be pushing buttons on a phone in order to get to somebody. They shouldn't be leaving voicemails that never get returned because that's not exploring a solution with somebody that's just a little advertising, we speak, freeing them up now to free them up. It turns out with regard to the human voice. There is a problem, We used to do this easily in the 80s and the 70s and 80s, you know when I was You know only 30 or 40 years old, maybe, maybe I was younger. But in those days we could call somebody and we get their admin. If they were important, even in a small shop they would put our name and number on a little pink note and that ceo or owner or whatever would call us back. Why? Because they didn't want to miss out on potential business and all that was there was our name, our number and what we were calling about right now we get a call back that ended when voicemail showed up And it ended completely by 2005 when voicemail became ubiquitous. And we all got used to living our voicemail br screener. So now we have the problem that everything goes to voicemail. So why not hire some people to navigate calls to voicemail for the sales rep. So the sales rep can do their job which is eliciting a confession and helping somebody see the wisdom of moving forward to explore further. Which is all we do in sales. We don't really do anything else. But it's a great important thing. So one thing technology can do is let us divide jobs up differently than how we used to think about the job of driving to work. Uber figured out let and then lift followed and others how to divide that job up in a regular car without having to go to a public authority to get the permission to drive somebody...

...else. And now it's like the technology divided the job of and what do I get to do in that community? I don't anymore but for a while I get to sit in the back of the car and I get to read, I get to work. I don't have to do the job of driving the car because I'm too valuable to drive cars in that sense. Right. I'm not being arrogant here. I'm just pointing out to my company. My company. My time is worth more as a Ceo and as a car driver to a bank. Your reps time is worth more talking to prospects and listening to them than as a phone operator. And yet without being a phone operator, you can't get conversations because everything goes to voicemail I'm hearing is E sharp Talking in the back of my head founder of the four seasons hotel. He had a quote. Systemized the predictable so we can humanize the exceptional and this is where technology is a multiplier. Technology can augment so that we do get to spend more time having those conversations because you got to make the calls to get the conversations. But I think it's that point of after two attempts no response. We just bell out. I will tell you we have seen this through the research that we've done. We've done a lot of digital secret shopping studies with different financial brands community. National Fintech and it is typically the Fintech and the digital players that are aggressively following up with inbound leets. And I know that there's some automation that's tied to this to get that conversation to get that call and ultimately convert that sell. I'm not gonna name names because of India's but it's amazing. I mean sometimes three months post, you know, starting a loan application for mortgage. We're still getting phone calls and you're right, they're going to the voicemail but they're not giving up. I want to look ahead to the future, biggest opportunities available when it comes to maximizing sells for financial brands. Where should they focus their thinking? And I think that's the critical thing. Let's start with thinking where should they focus their thinking to transform cells beyond what you mentioned before, beyond the physical world of brick and mortar? Well now the sales folks are working from home, you have an opportunity to see how they're working. It's a mystery what somebody's doing at 3rd desk. We've all done it. You look over at their desk, you know, I don't know what a pain in his hand, well in his fingers or on the phone, but with whom? Right now, we actually have a wealth of information. And I think we need to just ask a simple question. It's actually two questions, which is what of the work that's being done? Is the work. that makes sense for that person. That's why I hired them. So for an average sales person I would say the opportunity is take them from three minutes of work today talking to three people for one minute to some bigger number and then ask the other question which is and you do this by taking stuff off their plate. So we take off their plate navigating phone systems to nowhere. Okay great. Somebody should take off their plate doing any work with the crm and their fingers. The average sales person is not a reader writer. They're a talker listener. So why do we ask them to read, write and type? Just because the people who build the systems are comfortable reading, writing and typing. There's a lack of empathy in the system builders and the system buyers who say well these reps must be just like me. Why don't I have them enter data in the crm? It's a bad use of their time, provide them with the concierge. Who does that? You want to really make reps productive, hire one person outside your company, give them access to the crm where they can do anybody else's work and let your reps just be able to say to that person in a voice mail by the way, just say,...

Hey, I need x updated, Blah Blah Blah Blah, takes 15 or 20 seconds and they go away. And if there needs to be a little clarification that person calls them back and they have a conversation and you get them out of the business of filling up the crm, it costs no technology to do this, it will change their lives. They will never leave you. You know, you're actually hitting on some key points that were just starting to explore. It's an idea that we're calling growth ability and growth ability or what are the three things that we get the most energy from And because we get the most energy from them, we create the greatest value for the organizations where we work and everything else outside of those three things could be something that could be elevated to someone else. It might be a distraction, it could probably be deleted. And I can't help but think there's a an assessment we use called Colby, K O L B E and Kobe looks at the cognitive part of the brain and Kathy Colby and her her father came up with the Wonderlic test back in the day to test intelligence. So this isn't about intelligence, it's not about even a motion, it's about your operating system and it looks at four areas fact finder, follow through quick start and what's called implementer. It's like how you deal with things in the tangible world. A lot of the, what we have found is someone in cells is a very high quick start, most likely gonna be lower on the follow through side. And I think that's where the pain, the friction, the frustration with Crm and data entry comes into play. And I like what you're talking about, like, well it was built that way because there was a projection by the developers. Well that's how everyone does it. So we're gonna do this. But I like your solution and I've had this experience myself I think and I talk more than I probably right. Even when I wrote the first book, it was pretty much done through the words that I spoke out of my mouth. And so if there's a way to bridge that gap, it's a voicemail, Hey, update this in the crm, 15 seconds done, I'm off to the next thing. Someone else can then take that time. That's fantastic. Thinking through this opportunity. Other side, one of the biggest roadblocks, the biggest challenges that financial brand and their cells team needs to be aware of going forward. Something that could hold them back, prevent them from making progress towards growth here. I think there's two things. One is the weight of tradition. It's very, very hard to examine traditions and break them down. I think what we do about it is break them down. Break it down to the pieces. Ask the questions you were just asking is this natural for this person to do it? Is that the best use of their native talents, their native capabilities? Do they like it? Something we tend not to ask. You shouldn't like your job. You should hate your job, right? Because I'm making you do your job. Because it's for me, it's not for you. Well in this world right now, it will really hold you back. It's not getting that your employees are your new customers and go to work anywhere. Then go to work in places that don't even live. So look out because you think the great resignation is something you ain't seen nothing yet. There's going to be the great poaching and the great poaching is going to make the great resignation look like a picnic. So you know, it's tradition that will keep people from senior people, especially those near the end of their careers. There's always a temptation when there is light at the end of the tunnel. I remember every time I ever went mountaineering I went mountaineering a lot. The most dangerous part of the trip was the quarter mile to the parking lot. Coming back down. Why? Because it was where my mind would start to think about the goal rather than where my feet were going and it doesn't take much, you don't have to fall very far. I've fallen 800 ft and I walked away, I've fallen two ft and I've hurt myself badly. So you know, you're close to the...

...end of your career. Why can't we just keep doing it the way we've always done it right? Why can't the other is the opposite, which is the temptation that their silver bullets out there in technology land without thinking through everything. And I mean every single thing from the, from the perspective of the prospect and I'll go back to the phone call. The phone call literally doesn't happen from the prospects perspective. So why do you put it in your sequence? Why? Well, because the sequence technology says it should be there, but who built the sequence technology sales people know some tech guys who came up with a great idea of building some sequence technology and then they could raise what $250,500 million dollars or whatever. And what feedback do they get feedback within the context of their sequence technology, check it out but it was sequence or sometime and look at the number of past two phone tests And then ask yourself why are there 50 times more past your phone tests and passed to email tests? You have your answer to use to come to temptation and then didn't look to see what was really happening. Yes, yes. And and chris this has been such a fantastic conversation today. I mean what were hitting on here at the very end I think is so practical. It's so relevant as we wrap up. What is one thing because to your point, it's being aware of the mind. It's not getting lazy. It's always looking towards the future and creating a future that's bigger than, say, the president or the past. All right. What is one thing to begin to transform that mindset which leads to transform of transformation of behaviors and actions and habits? What is one thing that someone listening could commit to do to take that first step on that journey towards what we've been talking about here today? Just one thing, something small. The one thing would be to examine your belief in the value of the next step for the person that you're speaking with, regardless of whether you ever do business with them. If you can get to the point where you truly believe that they will get value just from the meeting, your offering, your business will explode. Everything else takes care of itself. There you go. It's that one small thing transform the mind to transform the behavior to transform the action. And it all comes back to the beliefs chris if anyone is listening and it's a great way to wrap this up, wants to have a conversation with you about conversations, what is the best way for them to connect with? You say hello? You mentioned a podcast as well I think would be fantastic to to share that with the audience and the dear listener just to continue to expand their knowledge here. Yeah, the podcast is called market dominant skies. So it's at market dominance skies dot com. And apparently everywhere else on the earth where an episode 92 who knew an attempt to write a book that went bad and turned into a podcast and I kind of like it. Then there's I met on Lincoln a lot and I'm easy to find. I'm chris beal, I'm ceo of connect and sell, throw me a Lincoln invitation, refer to this podcast and we'll connect and talk, connect with chris learned from chris chris thank you again for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. This has been a lot of fun today. All right, James thanks so much as always and until next time be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even more practical improvement insights visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James, roberts, best selling...

...book banking on digital growth. Or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good. Mhm.

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