Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 7 months ago

86) #ExponentialInsights: Stop Pushing Messages & Start Creating Dialogue

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

How many times has your financial institution thanked you? They’ve probably just pushed messages without trying to create dialogue. Huge mistake.

In this Exponential Insights episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I interview Paula Tompkins, CEO/Founder at ChannelNet, about creating relationships and expressing appreciation.

What we talked about:

- Actually thanking your customers and members

- How to use technology to dialogue

- Implementing agile methodologies in a post-Covid world

- A roadblock is the lack of understanding what is possible

Resource we mentioned:

- White paper referenced at 16:45
 

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.
 

...using the digital to put the person inneed with the person that can help them is so important. Mm You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth. With James robert lay a Podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings andhello, I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 86 episode of theBanking on digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Paula Tompkins tothe show. Paula is the founder and the Ceo of Channel Net. She is anacknowledged pioneer using personal technology to facilitate multi channelmarketing and cells. Over the last 30 years, Paula has helped hundreds of theworld's leading companies grow by using technology to build customerrelationships and sell even more products. And now she's bringing thatexperience, that expertise to grow financial brands, banks and creditunions. Welcome to the show Paula. Well, thank you, I'm delighted to be here. Itis good to have you and it's, it's good to catch up. We've had a lot of greatconversations over the last year and as we reflect on that last year and reallylook ahead in this post covid world that we've all been moving throughtogether. I think we're seeing the light at the other end of the tunnel.What is one thing that you're just excited about right now, personally orprofessionally? Well over the last year, you know, at first it was a scaryperiod. I think for all of us, we didn't know what was going to happenand it really does create an opportunity in every dark cloud, inevery bad situation. Things just really start to improve. And it causes you tothink a lot deeper about what you're doing, where you're going, what youwant, your solution to be and what it can be. And during the covid period wehad a tremendous, all of our clients were desperate for help and we wereable to very quickly turn around information and messaging to theircustomers and members instantly on, you know, with surveys on, you know, howwas the pandemic affecting them and going out and talking to them about thestatus of their local branch and helping them sort of get back on theirfeet in terms of how they're communicating. It also opened up anopportunity for us to delve into very deep partnerships and uh, that has beena real boost because it's expanded the number of use cases and things we cando for our banks and credit unions exponentially. Absolutely. And to hearyou review and reflect on that, think about what you're doing, how you'redoing it, how it can be even better. I think you're tapping into something tothat. I'm hearing a lot about from financial brand leaders is they'retaking a moment to pause to think and reflect why they're doing what they'redoing to begin with in the first place. And you mentioned collaboration to me,I see collaboration is one of the benefits of coming out of this postCovid world that we're still navigating through. But it's it's it's there'sbeen a shift maybe just at a conscious level, at a subconscious level thatmaybe competition is looking at the...

...world through the lens of scarcitywhere I see there's still so much abundance, there's so much opportunityto help transform the lives of people in the communities that financialbrands serve. And you talk about thinking, thinking about our thinking,reflecting over not just the past year, but you bring a tremendous amount ofexperience and expertise to 30 years. Look back over that last 30 years, juston your own personal journey, how is the role of marketing and cellstransformed the most for financial brands? I would say that there was umwhen we first began working with large corporations back in the, in the mid tolate eighties, we worked with in those days, it was called Chase ManhattanBank and others. And they were very willing in those days to do some levelof experimentation. And it was literally experimentation almost like Rand D of new things that they wanted to try. And then the recession hit in the,you know, early nineties, and all the marketing budgets were pulled in. Therewas no experimenting whatsoever. And everybody was, you know, back in thetrenches. And I've just observed a lot of these brands still caught up in theold way, right? And talking about, you know, being slaves to their agencies,still doing a lot of television radio, not so much print as much as they usedto, but what's replaced that is all this google ads and adwords andeverything they can do to acquire new customers. They aren't doing anythingto mine the existing customer base. And it's shocking to me. And I've watchedthe auto industry just spend their entire history trying to get cell thenext car. Right. Well, what about the person that just bought the car? Whatare we doing to build a relationship with them? And it's siloed and it'schoppy internally and this group owns that and it's still politics and theystill don't look at their customer base holistically try to identify lifeevents, try to identify points of pain. People need help. What about a disaster?You went through one down there where you lost your power and you've probablybeen through floods and hurricanes and has any of your financial institutionsreached out to you and said, how can I help? Absolutely not. And that to me,what you're talking about. You know, financial brands spend an enormousamount of money to attract to acquire new accounts. But then, and I've seenthis with my own eyes there bleeding out accounts on the back end andsometimes they're grey accounts, meaning that the count is open but it'snot active. They're not utilizing it And to come back in a moment of crisisas is you're referencing the ice apocalypse of 2021 down here in Texas.What an amazing opportunity just to reach out. How might I be able to helpyou? How might I be able to be of service to you even? And it's notselling anything. It's just asking a simple question. How about this? Everytime a customer opens a new product or service that could be a customer or ora member. Do we even thank them? Oh yeah I can I gotta tell you real time.This is real time research that we're doing right now for a financial brandas part of our digital secret shopping studies. And we look at different areasof the buying journey in this particular case. It is the moment oftruth I. E. Conversion. So we're...

...testing their online account, openingexperience against larger financial brands and even against some of the neobanks. And then we're now also testing what happens next. So they either a dothey open the account or do they abandon? So what happens when theabandonment happens be if they go through and open the account then whathappens, what is the follow up communication and what we're findingreal time insights chime? Because china is one of the benchmarks in this studychime is by enlarge the top of mind recall in this study. And we ask, wellwhy, why why is chime? You know, you've you've you've gone through three orfour experiences, why does china come top of mine because the way thatthey're communicating and it's consistent communication, it's ongoingcommunication. And so I ask is it and we're talking multiple, multiple emails.Probably a good 10 to 12 emails within the 1st 30 days. And I said, is thatannoying? Is that frustrating to you? Is it absolutely not because they'renot trying to sell anything? They're just saying, hey, have you thoughtabout this? Have you considered this? They're making recommendations. They'rechecking in. This is what your debit card. I mean it's all we would call itadvisory coaching and accountability, not pushing a product down people'sthroats. That's right, That's right. We go the next step. And the beauty ofgoing beyond email is we can embed in all our communication, a simple survey,you know, a simple survey. You know, how was your account opening experience?And when they click on that, we know who they are and we instantly send thatscore back on that individual member or customer. And so the institution, weencourage them to reach out my phone whether it was good, bad or ugly. Andso those are the kinds of things were coaching our clients to do. The nextthing we do is we constantly are trying to find out what's going on in theirlives. What are their life events? Are they thinking about a second home? Arethey worried about retirement? Do they think they have enough money saved? Wedon't dialogue through technology. We still just push messages. And so evenif it's thank you for opening the new account or thank you for opening thatsecond account or thank you for signing up for bill pay. Here's how you use it.By the way. How was your experience? And then we can real time report backto the institution. What was that individual member of customers'behavior? And that's where I see a lot of the marketers are missing the point.The other thing we do a lot of is what we call demand sensing through theseinteractions and triggers. And you know if somebody clicks on a credit app orrates for a new car loan, what are they doing about it? People believe thatinto a lead. Yeah, people are leaving. So I I like to call it you know eitherdigital bread crumbs or digital exhaust. You know we were able to track anindividual's digital behavior and that could be very creepy and there's awhole conversation we can have about privacy and it's almost like you knowwe can use it like the force and Star Wars, the force is in neutralexperience. It can be used for good or it can be used for evil. And to me Isee financial brands being able to use it from, from a sense of empowermentand even this idea coming back to what you were talking about acquisitionversus diving deeper to create even more value. There was a study that wasshared from hubspot that it's 5-25...

...times more expensive to a choir a newcustomer than it is to retain an existing one. And then the likelihoodof selling to a new prospect is only 5-20%. But selling to an existingaccount holder increases 60-70 because there's already some type of affinitygoodwill. But you need to continue to reinforce that correct? That is exactlyright. And you know, we talked a little bit about budgets and I don't know ifyou're anxious to get into that section or not but look we know branches areare shrinking or some of them are going to go away. I mean people now with thenew technologies uh they don't need so much in person but they still need helpand advice and they still want to look somebody in the eye. So re gearingourselves around virtual branches or virtual banking is very, very important.They still need to talk to an expert. Listen, I am not an investment planner,right? I mean, I'm busy doing my work every day, so I appreciate being ableto talk to my investment advisor. Good. His advice, understand his point ofview. Read the white papers they're generating and worried about taxes andthe implication of taxes and and you need a human being to help you withthat stuff. So that's still very important. And putting using thedigital to put the person in need with the person that can help them is soimportant. And that's going to separate the men from the boys, as we say in inthe auto industry, Right? Yeah. And I think you're onto something and it'sit's a big part of my teaching and and my advising and my coaching, that thisidea of, of digital versus the branch. I don't think that's the right path.It's, you know, I just got into this really good, I would say, just debateand exchange of thoughts and ideas on linkedin from a post that David Hortonwas a survey that he he had issued and the survey was framed around, you know,if a primary bank closed all the all of its branches, how would you feel aboutdigital only channels for advice issues in customer service and the responseswhere I'm happy with digital only face to face and branches better or I don'tcare. And Ron Shevlin came in, he said he had a tough time answering the pollhow it was worded. And I agree because there's this is not a binary approach.It's not branch only or digital only, It's combining the human experiencethrough the digital channel. And if someone wants to transition fromdigital into the branch, we'll give them that path. Don't force themabsolutely scheduled meeting. And we're seeing we're seeing a lot of that inhealth care right now. Absolutely. Now it's interesting. I just had anincident where I needed uh you know, telemedicine and what my doctor told meis, you know what, it's still not three dimensional. And so, you know, heneeded to look at my wound, right? And and he couldn't so I had to go to hisoffice, but it's exactly the same. There's sometimes when you just need tosit down, look somebody in the eye, get out all the documents and paperwork andfor those that don't feel they need that fine. But it is Omni channel, itis not digital only branch only and bringing those two together in a way tohelp the member or customers So critical, I want to come back to thiswhite paper that you're referencing around the perspective of of of budget.And it's a really good one because it's, it's about quantifying. And anotherarea that you noted in this white paper for opportunity is that of of measuringthe time required to build a personalized digital experience. Youframed this around the thinking of...

...agile or what we would call growthsprints. And this is a very different way of thinking and doing for manyfinancial brands up to this point. But it's one that I see as a viable path toreally exponential future growth in an ever growing complex digital world. Andone of the things that you noted and this is important when it comes toagile or these growth sprints is something called well defined as rapidprototype development but rapid, it's important to to frame and maybe youcould dive deeper here rapid. Does that necessarily mean poorly functioning? No,No, No, No. In fact we've been practicing agile methodologies since2006 and it's what allows our platform to be so flexible and have so manydifferent use cases for our, for our clients are banking and credit unionclients and for example, let's say you were going to be hit by a hurricane intexas. Okay now what are we gonna do within a day? We can have a personalexperience for all those that are in the path of the hurricane by zip code,by state, by name, by number. By whatever means and we can instantlycommunicate with them. The branch is going to be closed. Here are somepreventative steps you can take if you've got damage, here's an emergencynumber you can call, we know you have a mortgage with us, make sure all yourwindows are, would it up so we can get that out same day. Okay, let me ask youa question because you've been practicing rapid prototype development,agile methodology Since 2006 and this is another newer area of focus andoperations, not just for marketing, not just for marketing sales, but I thinkreally from a leadership perspective, how can you recommend leadership teamsovercome the perceived dangers of working in an agile way? Because beforeit's always been 3 to 5 year strategic plans and not just doesn't work in thispost Covid world. What would you recommend? Because you're a leader?You're a ceo. How can you transform the thinking to really turn and transformideas over at a much more rapid pace rapid once again, doesn't mean halfbaked or bad. No, it does not. And here's what I see in the financialservices industry. They think they have all the answers internally. They go outand they buy a big platform, they buy Salesforce, they buy whatever, Thenthey hire 5, 10 people to go and spend 18 months to two years to three yearstrying to get it up and running and organized. We can do that in 2-3 weeks.Okay. And so what they need to understand is that by versus built,right? And that's a huge, huge area of opportunity. And if they pick the rightvendor that understands their business and understands how to help them andhas the turnkey approach rather than trying to spend eight months trainingsomeone on a tool how to do it in house. That's crazy. That's crazy in today'sworld. Furthermore, they don't have the expertise, they don't even know what'sPossible and that's what's amazing to me after 36 years doing this is theydon't have a clue about what's possible that thinking outside the box. And Iwill tell you that a lot of our clients have really inspired us during thisperiod I mentioned Tropical and the...

...fact that we're now embedding ourpersonal pages into their brand website. So when a known member comes back tothat website, we were able to do that in a week. Yeah. You know, like inyears. Yeah. Thinking thinking about all of this, this this journey thatyou've been on, that you've seen your clients the roadblocks, right. I Ithink you talk about people don't have a clue, and I and I agree, and that'sone of the big reasons that were continuously doubling down on justtraining on education to help leadership teams overcome their fearsof the unknown because when you fear the unknown, you can't make those nextsteps forward on that journey. So training and education is a great wayto help the unaware become aware of those future opportunities. Number oneand number two give them some hope, give them some inspiration of whatothers are doing before we get to that point, which which will go there in aminute. What are the biggest or what is the biggest roadblock that you see whenit comes to digital data personalization that holds financialbrands back from realizing and maximizing their full potential here? Ithink that it's just, it really is a lack of knowledge and lack ofexperience and that's why they need to bring an experienced partner on boardthat can help guide them through the journey and educate them every step ofthe way. And what what we like to do with our clients is we have at least itdepends on the client, but a weekly bi weekly or a monthly meeting to discusswhat worked, what didn't, how can we improve? Let's look at the analytics,let's move these pieces around on the page so we can uh let's change thewords and let's fine tune. And so we're in a constant state of improvement. Andthat's another thing agile methodology allows you to do, not just learn how torun the tool and blast out things right, but really dig down And find thesecrets that are going to drive the success on an ongoing basis. And whatwe've learned over 36 years is incredible. What works, what doesn't,what are the road blocks so many times? It's silos, budgets or it's justdownright a lack of understanding what's possible. Technology hastransformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for andbuy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch. If they walk into a branch at all, but yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financialbrand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robertwrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digitalgrowth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of hisbest selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now foryou and your team From Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketingmanifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed fullof practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show. I thinkwhat you're talking about, I was just having this conversation the other daywith Jeffrey Kindle from Nimbus on an event that was hosted by the Financialbrand form and we were talking about...

...build versus buy and if you want tobuild it, You really are looking at 18 24, sometimes 36 months. And there's alot of pride in that, that ownership. But I would, I want to frame thisanother way because people are more likely to take action to avoid a lossthan they are to achieve a game. There's a hidden cost associate, notjust a monetary or a financial cost, there is a massive opportunity cost bytrying to build all of this because you're losing the opportunities Thatyou could be creating instantly and then continuously learning from that. Ithink that's where failure has to be even reshaped internally. That failureis not bad failures are learning opportunity, right? Absolute. And lostopportunity costs if you want to take that 18 months And that million or $2million or $3 million dollars you're going to spend and then add to that,the fact that over that period of time, you've bled more customers and members,you you've not cross told them you've not met their needs because you're busybuilding some empire. And by the way, who says that you're going to be ableto hire the people that understand what to do and how to get it done in in inan appropriate way. Great point. Because the competition there onattracting talent from what we're seeing from our research isn't justother financial brands. You are competing with sass, you are competingwith Aecom and digital retailers. And so you have to be just as compelling ifnot even more compelling. Just like account holders to attract those thattalent but more importantly retain that talent because I've been seeing massivetalent shifts post covid people coming in and then moving out of the industryfor multiple reasons. Absolutely A. They aren't appreciated be theyprobably are stuck in some I. T. Department somewhere and you know Imean we need I. T. They're important we need them to be able to manage whatthey know best and that's the core and all the processes and systems in thebackground. But they aren't customer experience experts. They aren'tusability experts, they don't understand interaction and behavior andwhen and how to trigger information that's going to be meaningful to thatmember of customer. So they get frustrated and they can go someplacewhere it's exciting where they have more freedom and creativity and there'sjust not a lot of advanced thinking in the in the financial service sector butI think it pulls down to one word and you said this and this is what I hearfrom marketing teams. And even sometimes sells teams it's justappreciation, we appreciate you for what you're doing to help grow thefinancial brand. And that's once again it's a lack of awareness andunderstanding of the role of marketing in this post covid world. It's notabout pushing product it's about being an experienced engineer that guidessomeone beyond their questions and concerns towards the hopes and dreams.But marketing alone can't do this. It's marketing Plus cells plus Ops plus I. T.All supported by a leadership team that believes that marketing is not just acost center but it's a growth opportunity. Yes. Revenue generation.And it is so funny and I'm not going to name who, but we have some clientswhere we're driving leads to them on a daily basis for car loans, home loans,debt consolidation loans, personal loans, credit cards, you know, newaccount openings, you name it and they say, but we can't deal with thatinternally. We we don't know, we can wake up, take some of those people thatare sitting in the branches, waiting on somebody to walk in and make them pickup the phone and call that member or...

...customer. And I see you don't hear thesame thing through the coaching and advisory work that we're doing. It's achicken or the egg, right. Some financial brands want to build thequote unquote digital sells team first, but then they're stuck waiting, youknow, for opportunity to fall into their lap. I'm like, no, you drivedemand. It's called demand jin and demand marketing for a reason. Youcreate the demand to then fund that operational upgrade and you cantransfer talent with some up skilling because it's a little bit of adifferent skill set that major, but a little bit of a different skill set.That's just simply augmentation. Right? Exactly. You are exactly right. And Iknow of one of the top five banks that's going down that they have builtthis enormous call center of quote unquote virtual bankers and they'redoing nothing really to drive leads there. It's crazy what they're doing.So the other thing we do is the minute that person we sense the demand, wethen not only send that lead back to a designate whether that's a new businessdevelopment person or a branch or our car loan specialist, but we instantlyretarget them with a much deeper, richer experience on that topic. So wegive them calculators, we talk about events, you know, if they want to buytheir first home, we're going to have a first home seminar or gee here's someeducational material you can sign up for and learn all about mortgages andhow to qualify a mortgage and what your how your credit is important. So wekind of want to drive them deeper into the funnel right now. How many how manybanks and credit unions really though James robert call it a a salesperson.Yeah, no, they don't. It's not a sale. I don't know what it is. Maybe on the B.Two B side, they're more used to trying to sell, but on the consumer side. Wellthat's a it's a massive, it's a massive shift in thinking and you have to likebreak this apart. And we do a lot of of transforming the thought processbecause let's work backwards, a person's habits are informed by theiractions, their actions are informed by their behaviors, their behaviors areinformed by the words they speak to themselves and to others, which areinformed by their belief systems which is then informed by their mindset andthey're thinking. So it's like you really have to keep coming back totransforming the mindset to transform the habit. But there's a lot thathappens in between that and it's it's taking the idea of cells from areactive standpoint which is traditionally servicing to taking andleaning into it. Being proactive to become more of an adviser, a guide, acoach, Kind of like what we're doing with with financial brands and theirmarketing, sales and leadership teams. Doing the same exact thing for accountholders. It's one of the biggest growth opportunities that's untapped. I seeover the next 3-5 years. Absolutes, absolutely. And the fact that theyeverybody is all wrapped up in A. I. And A. Ii. Is great. But it's only onefactor. Big data is only one factor. The behaviors are what helps to pullthat together and glue it together. So it becomes a very informed conversationAnd loading that quote unquote, whether we call it business development personor whatever with all the information that that customer has given us. Right.They said that they want that to buy that home in the next 6-9 months. Ohgood that they've told us to their calculators that they plan to rent,they're currently renting and so now we've got a different level ofeducation here because they're renters, right? We know their age, we know theirincome because we know all this...

...information about them that is part oftheir part of the core right information so we can start to stitchall that together and give a very good profile to that person. So they knowhow to advise that, remember, and coming back to some of the studies thatwe've been conducting for financial brands through these secret shoppingexperiences we have found, and we've been asking directly as a follow upexit, would you be interested in getting some type of financial guidance,advisory coaching, accountability and time and time again. The answer isresoundingly yes. And the why money is confusing. Money is complex. Money isoverwhelming and it's taking a toll on my health, my relationships, my wellbeing. I want to shift the conversation here slightly because if I'm listeningand I got a lot of empathy for for the dear listener, whether they're on themarketing team, the cells team, the leadership team, That's a lot to takein. It really is. It's like drinking from a firehose. I want to give somehope that you know what yeah, this is where things are right now. The goodnews is it doesn't have to continue to be this way. And you've been doing alot of good work with financial brands around the country. You've recentlyshared a story with me about Natasha Natasha from unified credit, you didn't,We have over three billion in assets, they're serving over a quarter millionaccount holders around the country. And I think one of the things that excitesme most about Natasha story is how her own perspective has transformed frombeing a product pusher to really bringing together different pieces ofdata and information to make recommendations. Proactiverecommendations, personalized recommendations on these journeys. Andone of the things noted in in this narrative that I think is critical isNatasha and her team identified that the biggest opportunity they have thegreatest window is in the first six months of that relationship. They foundthey were losing out on a tremendous amount of opportunity because theirtheir methodology was rooted in the past, in the physical world and you areable to help come in and transform, not just there doing, but I think also moreimportantly, they're thinking to create more value for their financial brand bycreating more value for their account holder. Can you provide some hope ofwhat this future could look like by applying this, thinking about the workthat you've done here with Natasha and really been hugely collaborative. Uhand it's and it's not just Natasha, it's it's the entire team, they'reeverybody from the chief lending officer, the person in charge of allthe branches, the call center team, the entire marketing team. And we have, wehave put our foot on the gas. So once we got them up and running with theirfirst use case was welcoming new members. We then immediately turned tore engaging existing members. We then turned to newsletters to solve thefatigue of the 8-10 email blast that we're crossing in the, in the night.And the, you know, the whole team there is just fantastic to work with,extremely creative. And now that it's kind of like riding a horse or riding abike. And I don't know when you, when you think about riding a bike and yourdad or your mom is got you on the wheels and and you're scared and youprobably fall over once and then you...

...get back on and you keep going and nextthing you know, you're flying down the street, that's what a journey with usis like. Right, So well what we call it walk, run ballet. So we will start outwith solving one of your problems and then we'll step you as, as you tell usabout more problems, like we need to bring in, uh, you know, we need aswitch kit. Okay, How do we do that quickly and get that up and running? Weneed a landing pages with geo targeting based upon, you know, driving newmember acquisition in certain markets. Oh, we need, uh, we're going to start afoundation. Can you, can you launch a foundation page with donationcapability? I mean, it's just, boom, boom. Now they're at run there atballet. I mean there they are. You know, and it's their openness, theirwillingness, they see the results, They work with us on a literally week byweek basis. And so together we have really transformed them into frankly apersonalization machine or their member base in very exciting, very excitingtrue story. Well, first, you know, you mentioned that this was a collaborativeexperience and it was marketing lending the call center leadership, It wasn'tone person, it wasn't an individual, it wasn't just a team. This is culturaland organizational transformation at its finest. And one of the things thatI'm seeing through the training, the coaching, the advising that we're doingis historically we have been just working with marketing teams totransform that mindset from my experience, working with marketingcells and leadership teams. We had historically just worked with marketingteams. But that's only one perspective because because great, you're gonnatransform marketing's thinking, but then they're going to run intoroadblocks, say, with, like cells and lendings and ops and leadership. Youhave to kind of do all of this in one fell swoop and it takes time. Kind of,coming back to your point about riding a bike. True story. We go back a yearas we started this conversation, right? As Covid was hitting and we were onlockdown, I was like, Kids need to learn how to ride a bike by two oldest.We have four kids, they're 10 and eight, and they've been on training wheels.And I'm like, you know what? The training wheels come off today? And thesheer terror on your faces, like, you were like, you thought I'd, like, tookaway everything And no, and they were nine and 7 at the time. And you knowwhat? We went, we went down to the track, they hopped onto the track, theyfell a lot, and I'm like, they're like, can you hold on to the bike? I rememberwhen I was a kid. No one, no 1 taught me how to ride a bike. You kind of haveto build that confidence up over time, but you're right, once they built thatconfidence, they're off and running, and now it's become a favorite pastimefor them. So I I this is a great story. It's a great example. It really is oneof of hope and and as we look ahead, and I always like to provide onerecommendation or get one small action because massive transformation begins,like you said, walk, run ballet. What is a small micro action or commitmentyou could recommend for the dear listener to make a commitment whenlooking at building these personalized digital experiences. What would that be?It would be to to find the right partner that, that you can trust thatcan help you, that has been there and done that. And that is, you know, it'snot about the technology, it's not about the platform, it's not about theoh, does it have a CMS or doesn't it? It's you know, oh, I'll have to hirefive people. Oh, goody. I get to be...

...build my empire. It's not, it's go findsomebody that's fast to market that understands agile methodology that hasa proven platform and can get something up and running in record time and thenstart to iterate and that's what it's all about. And that's what worksbuilding the pie in the sky ultimate system internally. I don't care ifyou're Chase or Bank of America. Trust me, I've seen underneath the covers ofsome of those large enterprises and trust me, I think the banks and creditunions have a huge opportunity, a huge opportunity to change the dynamic focusin on the member and customer and listen to them. Let them speak to youthrough their actions and behaviors. If I could distill all of that down. Putpeople at the center of all of your thinking and all of your doing and whenyou do that, you will create value early and often for your accountholders and as a result you will create value early and often for yourfinancial brand Paula, this has been a great conversation. If anyone wants tocontinue this discussion, what's the best way for them to reach out, Sayhello and connect with you? Well, they're welcome to join me on linkedin.I'm Paula Tompkins at channel net dot com. That's P Tompkins. T O M P K I N Sat channel net dot com. Or feel free to pick up the phone and call me on myself.4157204498. We have great case studies on our website. We would prefer to workacross silos and not just with marketing. Marketing of course willhelp execute, but really we need the engagement of all the other businessstakeholders so we can meet the needs across the board and not just blastemails. Absolutely. It's about marketing cells ups it leadership allworking together to guide people beyond their financial stress towards a bigger,better and brighter future. I'm glad you're helping financial brands withthis on their own journey, Paula, thanks again for joining me on anotherepisode of banking on digital growth. Thank you James robert. It's been athrill as always and until next time be well too good and make your bed. Thankyou for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth. With Jamesrobert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us areview on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe Whileyou're there to get even more practical improvement insights, visit www dotdigital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best sellingbook banking on digital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your teamfrom Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprintframed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time. Be well anddo good.

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