Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

199) #BehindtheCover - Kickstarting Your Financial Brand's Coaching Culture


We grow personally and professionally through learning, and what better way to self-educate than through books.

In the first episode of our Behind the Cover series, I’m joined by my friend and colleague Audrey Cannata, Operations Lead at the Digital Growth Institute, to talk about The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More, and Change the Way You Lead Forever by Michael Bungay Stanier.

We break down this masterwork that guides leaders in helping their constituents reach the next level so they can embolden others through their transformation journey.

Join us as we discuss:

- (3:11) Some of the common misconceptions about professional coaching

- (7:55) Challenges to building a culture around coaching

- (14:53) Seven questions everyone should ask during the coaching process

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Audrey Cannata

- The Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More, and Change the Way You Lead Forever

- Michael Bungay Stanier

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

Always tell the truth. I think it can be difficult when you're working, especially in a, you know, professional setting, to have those transparent and honest conversations. You are listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the behind the cover series, where James Robert Lay and Audrey Cannada break down lessons and insights from the books they've been reading. We understand that in a digital age, taking time to read can be a true challenge, but here at the digital growth institute we believe learning is one of the four exponential growth environments, so let's go behind the cover. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Lay and welcome to the one hundred and ninety nine episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of a new series we're kicking off called behind the cover, where we take you behind the cover of the books we are reading to transfer practical ideas at insights that will guide you, inspire you, inspire your team, guide your team and your financial brand or Fintech Ford, onwards and upwards along your digital growth journey. Joining me for today's conversation is Audrey Kannada, operations lead here at the Digital Growth Institute, and you know, let's just jump into the conversation because I know what it's going to be a good one because we have a fantastic book to talk through together for you today. Welcome to the show, Audrey. It is so good to share time with you today. Again, thank you, James Robert. I'm so excited to be here and kicking off this new series with you today. It is a new series behind the cover. You know, one of the things that we do a lot here as individuals, also as a team, but then also with the financial brands that are in the banking on digital growth program is we spend a lot of time reading, reading books, and I find it quite fascinating, with a recent survey that we've conducted, how little time people dedicate to ongoing training, to ongoing education, to ongoing development, because it is through training, through education that's how we achieve exponential growth. Where we are growing personally, we are growing professionally, and in our survey, seventy one percent. Seventy two percent of people responded within the industry that they spend zero to one hours a week or one to two hours a week, continuing to learn so that they can continue to grow. What what's your thought on that? Well, I totally empathize with that. I understand that we are busy personally and professionally and it is challenging to dedicate that time for learning and ongoing education. It seems to be the the least important at the time when you have deadlines and projects to turn in, which is why I'm really excited to be doing this series with you, because that it is my hope that we can shortcut some of that learning for our listeners and provide them with some insights into the latest and greatest and maybe some some old, you know, favorites, all time book favorites, and give them those key insights and maybe that's enough for them to find value, or maybe that's inspiring for them to get the book and read a little bit further. Absolutely, and I think you know when you when you consider the resource that we're looking to create here, it is for individuals, but it's also for teams and possibly even for organizations. Taking thirty minutes, thirty five minutes tops, to dive into a book through our dialog, through our discussion, and then add on another thirty minutes, you know, following this conversation, and then do a little bit of internal discussion around whatever book it is that we're going to be talking through. And on that note, Today's book is the coaching habit say less, ask more and change the way you lead forever, by Michael Bungay Stainer, and this is a book that I came across the years ago I introduced to you I also recommend to financial brands and their team's internally to read, because I'm a big believer that coaching is the next level up within financial services to go beyond the transaction and truly...

...put the transformation of people first. Put the transformation of people over the transaction of dollars and sense, and that means internally, for the employee experience, than also externally as well, when it comes to the relationships and the conversations that we're having with not only account holders but also possibly perspective account holders, to do help them see a future that is far bigger than the present moment. When it comes to coaching, I know there's a lot of misconceptions around coaching. So why don't why don't we start there to maybe provide some clarity, because if you say coach or coaching, it can evoke a lot of different ideas, it can evoke a lot of different emotions. People think coach, they might think sports, people think a coach, they might think not so good thoughts, because almost anyone today can call themselves a coach and we've seen an explosion of coaches and in a whole industry dedicated. I think there's more hot air than substance, you know, for for many but what are some of the misconceptions of coaching today? I think when it comes to coaching, what makes it very unique is being a coach is the ability to really help others see something that they may not be able to already see. It's your ability to ask really great questions and help somebody else self actualize. So when you're thinking about a coach, it's not you're not providing advice or recommendations, telling somebody what to do, you're helping them come to that decision on their own. And I think another misconception might be that you have to be an expert in a particular field and if you're helping someone self actualize, you're not giving them the information, you're not giving them the answers. So you don't need to be an expert. You know the point that you were making around self actualization. I think that right there, that is the really the biggest opportunity when it comes to building a culture of coaching within a financial brand. Because even even in the book the Coaching Habit, the author rites everyone now knows that managers are leaders need to coach their people, and even there's a big difference between, because you were looking at this from maybe an External Perspective, of coaching and consulting and advising, but there's also a lot of leadership that can play into this narrative in this conversation as well. And it's the self actualization that I have seen through my own experience really transforming from what I would look at as more of a practice of advising and consulting to where, when we shifted our model to really take a coaching first approach, that is where I've seen financial brands, marketing teams, cells teams, leadership teams, move the furthest and the farthest, maybe not the fastest, but they have moved the furthest and the farthest on their digital growth journey because of the self actualization of the knowledge. They own that idea, they own that thought, they own that belief, where if I think back historically of how we were operating and guiding financial brands through more of an advisory practice or consulting practice, we could come in here and tell ten financial brands some more recommendations of what to do, but might maybe one would would take that and do something with it, because there's almost a resistance that goes up. I mean, think back to your days of teaching and working with kids. It's human behavior, right, and that's a great point. I do think back to my teaching, especially my early teaching years when I was still building my craft. But you have children that come up to you all day long asking questions and I think it's so easy to give them the answer. I don't know what they're going to do with that. Does that really help them? I think a lot of a lot of coaching and a lot of teaching. It's showing them the way, not showing them what it is, but how to get to that end result or or answer that question and I think it's really important to empower other people to come to those decisions and determinations on their own. Giving them the answers may help in the short term, but it's not setting themselves up for success in the long term and showing them that they can be...

...self sufficient, giving them the tools, the methodologies to come to some of these discoveries on their own. And I think that's what it is. I think it's the frameworks that in the mental models that help people take a almost a four step journey through coaching. They see things different than how they saw things before, and when you see things different, you what you think differently. And we've had these conversations plenty of times and you know the answer or that. Many people say, well, you know what happens X. People think differently. There for people what do differently? Right, they act, they do differently, and that's simply not the case. You know, we must bridge the gap between the thinking and the doing or the thinking and the acting, with what we call feeling, because it's the desire to transform, it's their desire to change their behavior that increases to a level that is greater than their desire to remain the same or to say, stuck in the status quo and a lot of times when we talk about digital transformation, we're skipping that step of feeling. We're skipping that's that that a motive step and people might have the head knowledge, but that typically doesn't translate into new action or new behavior. It's the feeling and the emotion that we really need to hone it and that's where the coaching aspect, that's where the coaching element comes into. If you think about some of the conversations that we've had with financial brands and their marketing teams and their cells teams and their leadership teams through the banking on digital growth program what are often some of the biggest challenges that you see holding people back from committing to build a culture around coaching, both internally as well as externally? I think it's the overall buy in. A lot of times we will work with individuals who get it and they have that growth mindset and they want to evoke change, but it's how do I get the rest of the team on board and and where do you find the time to do that? Everyone is busy in their and their schedules and their daytoday activities. Where do you set aside that time to focus on the culture and focus on on the learning and the coaching. It's really difficult thing to do and we do see a lot of times we have coaching calls and things come up, other meetings come up and it seems like, well, the coaching call that could that can wait. Yeah, that's not quite as important and I understand that and we totally empathize with that, but I think that's just one of those things that we have to really commit to. This is where I'm going to see those results. It's taking this time to work through my thinking, come to some realizations, get some action plans by my answers so then I can go back out and be better at my job. Well, coming back to the book, some of the challenges that the author noted. Research from a leadership development firm, blessing why, suggested that seventy three percent of managers had some form of coaching training. So good so far, and I'm quoting. However, it seems it wasn't very good coaching training. Only twenty three percent of people being coached. Yes, fewer than one and four thought the coaching thought that coaching had a significant impact on performance or job satisfaction. Ten Percent Even suggested that coaching, that the coaching that they were receiving, had a negative effect. And there's your point. There's a there's a level of commitment that is required for coaching to create value, but it's for those that commit to the process, both the coach as well as the one being coach, that is where the transformative relationship transpires and it is rooted in because, back to your original perspective, the coach might not have all of the answers, but it's about holding a mirror up to let someone see things differently than how they saw things before, and then that takes us back through that process. When you see different, you think different. When you think different, the next step is to feel different, and when you feel different, that is when you will continue to move forward and make progress on your journey of growth. In the book there are seven key questions that I have found to be very powerful, very practical, and this is where I think this book is such a great resource for internal teams to build a culture of coach doing...

...first and foremost that can then transpire externally to begin to provide coaching with account holders and maybe even with in prospective account holders, and I know that's a very futuristic idea, but we're starting to see this transpire within financial services. Take, for example, the financial gym out of New York. It is a membership program that is not associated with a bank or with a credit in their independent but they are providing coaching services that are transforming people's lives. So let's work through each one of these questions here, and the very first question is the kickstart question. What is the kickstart question? The kickstart question is very simple. What's on your mind? This creates a very open ended response. I think as a coach it's not your job to come in with an agenda The person you are coaching. It is completely up to them the direction that they're going in, and you want to start off with this feeling of you know, hey, you can trust me, this is a safe spot. Just tell me what's on your mind, and sometimes it might not be the heart of the issue, and that's why I think a good coach needs to be able to do is really dig in and find the heart of the issue. But it's a great place that just lay things out on the table. There's No side stepping, there's no, you know, small talk and you're just getting straight to the point. One of the things that I have found over the years, like with this kickstart question and framing this through the perspective of the Digital Growth Institute, is the what's going well method, and it really kind of takes the what's on your mind but frames it in a very unique way, because I think when you open up with what's on your mind, and we've heard this with financial brands, that sometimes can take a bit of a negative path. Right. Absolutely, we've seen that quite often, and so I love what's going well. We don't into it a little bit on episode one hundred and ninety four just a few weeks ago, and we've definitely seen the positive impact and we've sent over the framework and thinking models for some of our financial brands to use internally, and that what's going well. Back to one hundred and ninety four, is really for questions within one question. It's an acronym. The W is where have you been winning? The E is what are you excited about right now, in the present moment? So a little bit of past and present perspective. The L is learning, what have you what have you learned over the last day, the last week? The last month, the last quarter, and then what are you looking forward to? And so this such a it's it's a utility tool, it's a pocket knife, if you will, of questions that really come back to kickstarting any conversation, but almost one hundred percent ensuring and guaranteeing a positive response. And while it can feel a little bit uncomfortable at first to be asked what's been going well for you, where have you been winning over the last week, month, quarter, year, once you'd build that habit, then things begin to look a lot more rosy because, as Dan Sullivan says, often the mind will see what the I see. The ears will hear with the ears here, and so it's about almost shaping the perspective in reality from the Lens of a positive standpoint. I think of one financial brand that we work with, Audrey, and their vice president was sharing with us, you know, when they do these team meetings. They talked about they were doing temperature checks, but what was the pattern that that was leading to and just doing an UNOPEN ended temperature check? Well, like you said before, it leaves room for negative responses and many times when you're in a team meeting and you hear negative response because you're on a team and you're working closely and you know you're each involved in each other's different projects. Then it could really spiral out of control quickly and everyone wants to piggyback on that negative response and then next thing you know you're just sitting around having a complain fest and a negative fest, but you're not really getting anywhere with it. You're not making any progress. Speaking about making progress, that's where question number two of the coaching habit kicks in, which is the all question. What what does the all question entail? And I love a good acronym. I know I was going to call you out on this a minute ago about the acronym. I need love this question. So the odd question is what they have said in the book is the best coaching question in the world. And what else? Awe and what else? I personally think this is probably the most challenging question,...

...because what this question does is it keeps you, as a coach from jumping right in and wanting to give advice. And I understand that because as a coach, you probably do want to help. It feels good to help and there's nothing wrong with that. But at this point in the conversation, you don't know enough about the situation to be able to really give any proper advice. So asking and what else, it leaves the door open for that person to continue dialoging and working through in their minds what's going on, which will then, as the coach, help you hopefully identify what is the deeper issue here, because a lot of times it's not going to be where they started. You've got to help them uncover what issue it is. We use the socratic method as a tool and a resource to help expand the and what else even that much further, that much deeper, and there's a whole library of questions that we have compiled over the years that we provide to financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams, even Fintech teams, because it does help them dive deeper in to the thinking. I've always said, you know, one of the greatest skill sets as we're moving forward into a knowledge economy is to get really good asking really good questions. which brings us to question number three, the focus question. What is the focus question? So backing up a little bit further on the odd question. What's great about that is you can continue that question over and over again until you feel like you've gotten to that point where you can see the challenge or you can see you know the purpose of this conversation, and that's where the focus question comes in and it's what's the real challenge for you, and I think the two words to really focus on real what's the real challenge? And then for you it's almost what, and I recently use this in a conversation. So what's what's the problem behind the problem? Because I feel a lot of times people present with a problem, people present with a challenge and because of their perspective, because of how they see things, they think that's the issue. But in reality there's something much deeper going on, something below the surface, and it's through the dialog, it's through the discussion, it's through the discourse we can start to bubble some of those, maybe those more tougher issues up and it takes some courage to really go into these deeper levels, which is where the focus question comes back into play to really what are we going to focus on here? I think a lot of times, when working on teams and you're working, you know, multiple people on one project and you may come in saying that the issue is so and so didn't, you know, turn their piece of the project in on time. It didn't meet the deadline. But when you really dig into it you might uncover that this is a personal relationship situation is maybe less about the deadline and more about how are you communicating with each other? How are you working alongside each other? HMM, yeah, and you know, it's so easy to walk in circles, you know, through this question and answer this dialog, this this discourse, but from the role of the coach, the coach guides the thinking on the other side. And what I've found very unique in the banking on digital program and how we have set up coaching. I would say, and I want to get your perspective on this, that the most transformative conversations don't necessarily come from the facilitation that we are doing. It comes from the peer to peer coaching and how we set things up, using small breakout groups and covid really help to just facilitate this through zoom in ways that and scale that we never thought possible before because it was all done on site. But now people are much more comfortable in zoom environments and when you commit to once again a habit or a culture of coaching. You remove these small peer group breakout sessions that are cross functional throughout the organization, people come back and like we're missing that, we're missing that human connection. What do you see through that, through the dialog and the discussion...

...happening, not necessarily from the digital growth institute facilitating, but it's the cross team, cross functional conversations one hundred percent. These breakout rooms have served as a fork sing forcing function for a lot of these financial brands where we're getting two people in a room one on one, who may never set the time to do that on the route. It may not be a natural thing for them to do. You know, you're probably not going to walk down the hall and Randomly Grab Somebody from a different department and have a conversation with them. But when you're in these breakout rooms, and we do a really great job of mixing them around and making sure you get to touch different people from different departments or, you know, like you said, cross organizational you get to have these understanding, you know, these deeper level conversations and really understand what the other person is working on from their perspective, because maybe you had a different idea or it was affecting you in a certain way and you didn't understand. Well, this is how it's happening on therein so now we can communicate and figure out a way that we can make this work together, and it just really opens up that transparency and understanding that they wouldn't have had otherwise, and it is that transparency that's where we really start to move into question number for which is the foundation question. What is the foundation question? So I really like this one. Again, very simple. It's what do you want? What do you want to have happened? How do you see this working? What are your goals? And I think we use this a lot UN knowingly. This is what we call the coffee and conversations question, and the way they frame it as the in the book they call it the you know, Miracle Question. Hey, imagine tonight you go to sleep and a miracle happens. You wake up tomorrow. What is it? What it is? What is it that you want to have happened? And it really gives them a sense of control. This is about them, you know, we're here to help them reach that future, you know, positive state that they're looking for. Well, I was just having that conversation the other day with a prospect and we were talking about how do they want to grow as as an individual, as a team, as an organization, and I think it's important to a to address those three different levels of growth because, you know, for a team to grow, an individual must grow and for an organization to grow, a team must grow, and multiple teams for that matter, must grow and grow. Once again, is an acronym of goals and roadblocks and opportunities, and we frame the goals of an individual or a team or organization using the coffee or cocktail conversation question, and it is this. Imagine that we're having coffee or cocktails and it's some time period from now, a year or three years from now, nothing beyond three years, but I think one to three years is a fair horizon line. And really kind of the most important question is, first and foremost, what are you drinking? Drinking, what are you drinking? And a lot of times that lightens the mood and it just for a moment, diverges the mind into something more tangible, because when you think about future states, it's often a very intangible idea, and so by bringing the mind into what are you drinking, is it coffee or is it a cocktail? And what exactly is it? So, yeah, so, Audre, you so, so it is. It's three years from now. What are you drinking, audrey? Yeah, I think you know the answer to this, James Robert, but you and I are going to be cheersing and Nice Scotch. That's exactly right. We're gonna have a Nice Scotch. And you know, I think when and now, what you're doing by unpacking this question you're getting to understand the person on the other side that much better. You know, if it's a cocktail, will great. Tell me about your cocktail. What are you drinking? And sometimes you know it's a it's a Moscow Mule, O the times to glass of wine. Some say it's a beer. You and I it's a good scotch, maybe so old fashion. And then the flip side is it's coffee. What type of coffee? How do you like your cop so it really allows for some humanity to come into the conversation and then we come back. We come back to the future state. Okay, great, Audrey. You and I were having a Nice Scotch three years from now and you're in a really good place. Leap ahead in your mind. Take a sip of your Scotch and look back to today's conversation. What needs to happen between now until then for you to feel good about the progress that you're making on your own journey of growth? Pause and the prodicty. And it's that pause, it's that silence that...

...might feel uncomfortable for a little bit, but that's where the real transformation begins to take route, because now the answer that comes back on the other side. That person, in their mind is beginning to create a future state that they may or may not, and I'm willing to bet most likely they have not thought about at the level of detail and from the framing that we have asked it through the coffee or or cocktail conversation, and you can ask that person to write it down, which I think is very powerful. So in they write down what that future state is, they look back and then you can continuously coach through that. What's the are what are the will thinking about these three goals that you have that you would like to see transpire for you, for you to feel good about the progress you're making on your journey of growth? We are the road blocks that stand in your way and then what are the opportunities to overcome those road blocks? So it's goals, road blocks and opportunities, and that really does help to build an establish back to the point of the foundation question. That really helps to establish a ST wrong foundation for future growth, because if we don't have clarity into what the future could look like to begin with, how will we ever go and create that? Let's move on a question number five. Here the lazy question. What is the Lazy Question? This question makes me laugh just the way it's frame. The Lazy Question. But really, when you think about coaching a lot of times in the book, you know they did reference. Hey, listen, as a coach you don't have to do a whole lot of a whole lot of thinking and talking. You really are putting it up to the other person. So in this case the lazy question is how can I help? And by asking this you're really just getting a clear request. And this is mainly when you're thinking about approaching this coaching from a manager side or a leader side, when you have someone coming to you with a question or with the road block, instead of giving them that answer right away, it's possible that they come back with what do you think I should do here. Well, that's when you have a little bit of self control and not jump in to give them the advice, which is difficult and I references as a teacher. It's a lot easier to just give the answer and move on, but you give them put it back on them. What do you think about this? Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey a own, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fintext who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. Visit Digital growthcom slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show and and that idea of how can I help? A lot of the conversations that I have, even with this podcast. Once once we when I have a guest on the podcast, one of the very first questions that I ask before we wrap up our conversation and we end and we go our separate ways, I always ask no, it's been great sharing you know some time with you today as you think about just your next steps on your journey of growth. What is one small thing that I might be able to do for you to help get you where you want to go? And it's so interesting. They'll respond back and then I'll follow that question up with another question. And it's just through that dialog that it's new path. Pathways in the mind are beginning to open up through the discourse. Speaking about discourse, we use that word a lot. Dialog, discuss, discourse. From your perspective and what you have seen, why? Why? Why is it uncomfortable to begin building a culture of coaching, both internally first, and then also excellent? Why? Why is it uncomfortable for some to go to this place of dialog, discussion and discourse? Because I think honestly, the world would be much way better off if we could establish a practice of just having conversations from an objective point of view, not entering into a discussion with...

...any preconceived notion, but going in very, very neutral and then also, back to the point of the book, creating a lot of empty blank space and being fine with pauses, being fine was silence, because we get very uncomfortable when there is silence, because I think we've just got we've grown so accustomed to living in a noisy world. But, as Ryan Holiday writes, silence is the key. I think it really just comes down to, and this is one of our eight elements of exponential growth, is always tell the truth. I think it can be difficult when you're working, especially in a, you know, professional setting, to have those transparent and honest conversations, and this goes back to one of the books that you and I have read many times, the for agreements, and one of those existences don't take anything personally, and that is a very challenging thing and a very challenging concept to do and it really takes a lot of practice and there's a lot of emotions that get involved. We think about how much time and energy you spend in your daytoday work your job. It can be very challenging to break, you know, break those walls down and have those conversations, those honest and truthful conversations, but if you don't, you're not going to see that that growth potential that you could have. No, and and that brings us to our our sixth question here, which is the strategic question, and oftentimes this can probably be one of the hardest questions to answer, especially for hyperdriven individuals, hyperdriven teams who what to continuously do. More so, the strategic question is, if you are saying yes to this, what are you saying no to? And I think you are one hundred percent right. This is one of the most challenging questions, but I also think it is the most important and most impactful question that you can ask, because if you are going to be taking on something else, if you are saying yes to something, you cannot keep making your plate full. And I know when I first learned this concept, and this goes back to another book that we've read, who not how it's a hard concept to say no to things. I think we are wired, especially these very driven individuals were why are to say yes, we're why are do accept challenges? But a lot of the Times these tasks, these these things that were asked to do are not the best use of our time. It's okay to delegate. It's okay to get somebody else who that you know, that might be their unique ability to work on. For me, it was hard, that was a hard concept for me to let go of, because I felt like if I was getting help from somebody else. This comes back to being a teacher. Am I cheating? I should be doing this all by myself. I can do this. Does it make me look bad if I'm asking or delegating and giving this off to somebody else, because I'm capable of it? But then that's taking up my time where I could be focusing somewhere else where I am more valuable. I think that word delegation has a lot of negative connotation to it and that's one of the reasons I like to transform the idea and aspect of delegation into elevation, because when we think and talk about delegation, we think that we're pushing work down to someone else and in reality, when we think about elevation, we're not pushing work down. No, we're elevating the things that aren't inside of my growth ability, and growth ability is to find as the activities to where I feel capable, I feel confident because of my capability and I have the capacity to do these things and and they're all giving me an abundance of ever expanding energy. And if they're not those three to five at Timoti's, well, you know, maybe and I could be really good at them too, but but I need to elevate them to someone else who can who can do them even that much better. You posted in the digital growth inset or community earlier today. You ask a great question in fifteen words or less. What's your definition of success? Don't worry, we're not really counting and I probably I am not looking at my answer and I definitely went beyond the fifteen word limit. Well, I set to my word and I didn't count my own answer. Yeah, well, that and I think that's where it's like, you know, for me as an entrepreneur, rules or kind of like guidelines, and you know what. So and now wrote this because it's in the context of you know, if you're going to say yes to say to something, what do you say no to it? And I define success in my answers, and success is having the courage and confidence to commit to saying no to the things that don't matter, because they distract and pull you away from focusing on the...

...things that do matter. And, like anything, I think this right here is a habit that gets developed and strengthened over time. But it's not something, particularly when you're working with an organization, it's not something you can do alone. We see this a lot with marketing teams. Marketing teams are being asked to do all of these things, all of these activities by others who might not understand the role of marketing. They might view marketing as glorified inhouse kink goes who are there to run campaigns on a moment's notice. But in reality marketing is not that. Marketing is there to control the brand messaging. It is to generate leads, to then take those leads hand them off to cells so that cells can the nurture of those leads, which is a whole nother conversation, but we hear from marketing teams all the time. How are we ever going to work on future focus activities when we're stuck here in the present moment fulfilling the last minute needs of others? And you have two choices, we really have three. You don't do anything and you say stuck in the Cave of complacency. You say stuck in the catast the status quo. To you say no, but I know culturally sometimes that might not go over very well. So the third path, and I always look for a third path. Third Path is not yet going to hit the pause button on that. What's your take? I think that third option, and that's the you know, that is a creator and visionary of you to always throw in that extra option, that extra idea, and I think saying not yet it's great because it's letting that person know that they're being heard, you're validating what they have to say, but you're not committing to it right now, and I think that's important to let those individuals know that that. But also you have to set those boundaries for yourself absolutely, and and and setting those boundaries is so critical. Doctor, I think it's Henry Cloud has written a fantastic book around boundaries and boundary settings personally, but then he also has the business book on the subject as well. And as we begin to wrap up our conversation today, let's move to the Seventh Question of the coaching habit, which is the learning question. And a lot of this is built into just our methodology that I was, you know, already developing long before I read the coaching habit, and so to kind of take what is in the coaching habit and then overlay that with some of the thinking. That's one of the reasons I always recommend this read for individuals for teams, whether you're on the marketing team, the cells team, the leadership team, because this is really practical stuff. So that brings us to the learning question as we wrap up. What is the learning question? Well, I already know, James Robert, you are going to give us your spin on how you use the learning question in your coaching sessions, because it's definitely worded a little bit differently, but the book has it. What was most useful for you, and you know this gives them a chance to really think about and process what they have learned, the inside they gained and makes it about them. And then it also, as a coach, provides feedback for you. HMM, it really does, and the way that I frame this is a little bit differently, but it's something along the context of, you know, if you go back over the last, you know, thirty minutes of the last sixty minutes, what was one new insight, what was one new idea that either you gained through the dialog, through the discussion, maybe through some of the writing, because in our program we do what are called think and rights or right and think. You know, when you have that time, and I think it's important you create when you create space and time to just to think and to write and you have a prompt that guide your mind, you're guaranteed to uncover some type of new insight. But it is important at the end of that time period, whether it's thirty minutes or sixty minutes or ninety minutes, it's what was one thing, one key insight that I gained through the dialog, the discussion, the discoursor even just through my own personal reflection my writing, and write that down, because that becomes the key takeaway. But that's only just knowledge. I'm following that up, then, with the second question. What are you going to do next? How do you apply that knowledge to start growing?...

Because there's a there's a there's a vast cavern between knowing on one side and growing on the other. Knowing comes through the awareness, it comes through learning, it comes through thinking, growing comes through doing, it comes through reviewing what you've done. But to get to that side it requires commitments. So at the end of every session, at the end of every conversation, I'm I'm more interested in not what did you just learn, what knowledge did you gain? What are you going to do next over the next thirty, sixty ninety days, because once again, timing is critically important here, because if you put a context to that, now, in our mind we're saying we need to do this one, two, three things over the next thre thousand six ninety days. Now we can begin to hold ourselves accountable, but even more importantly, when we share this within a small group setting. Now the small group can provide that accountability as well. Where does the role of accountability kind of play into all of this as we wrap up the coaching habit? Because that is something too, that the coach can provide and where the internal coaching aspect of teams, as part of a culture of coaching, can be transformative. Yeah, I firmly believe that if you're going to dedicate the time to read, to learn, to expand your thinking, then you owe it to yourself or others to do something valuable with that knowledge, whether it's, you know, personal like choice, or helping share knowledge with others or making some changes and action items in your organization. I think that if you don't take that time to write those action items down and then share them out loud, I think two things. Writing things down is very powerful, but then taking it a step further and sharing it with others on your team so that they know what your goals are, they know your action items, they can help check in with you on the side after a week, two weeks and your team meetings. Hey, how is that working? How is that progressing? It really is the accountability piece that is key. And all of this, you know, is we start to wrap up. And just a final thought here. I always like to get very practical. What is a next best step for someone listening wanting to build a culture of coaching within their organization? First, because I truly believe that a culture of coaching can then begin to bubble over to the external side of things when it comes to working with account holders or working with prospects. But all transformative growth starts with a very small, simple step. What would that small next best step be for the dear listener to move forward with with courage and conference on their own journey of growth? I think the most important thing is to really define what that is. What is a culture of coaching look like internally, because, like we addressed in the beginning of the episode, there's a there's a variety of different thoughts and and definitions of what coaching is, and so I think if you take the time to define it as an organization and then really most importantly, is loop your loop your team in, loop your employees in, instead of saying, Hey, this is what we're rolling out, hey, how do you guys feel about this? Make them part of the process, otherwise you might get hit with that resistance and make sure everyone is on the same page and has that unified definition. Well, I think you know, making it inclusive, inviting others to the table. We've seen that through the banking on digital growth program when, when a financial brand invites multiple stakeholders from multiple errors of the organization to learn together, to think together, to grow together, they are in essence developing a culture of coaching, and I think the result of a culture of coaching is what I define as exponential growth, exponential growth being where one is growing personally as well as professionally at the same time, because if you're struggling personally, you're probably going to be struggling professionally, and if you're stugging professionally, you're going to be struggling personally, and so exponential growth is achievable when we're growing personally and professionally. But then imagine doing that at a team level. Now the team is experiencing exponential growth, and when teams with an organization or experiencing exponential growth, that is when the organization experiences exponential growth. So I think the result through a culture of coaching is ultimately exponential growth. Get The book, The coaching habit. Say Less, ask more and change the way you lead forever. Audrey, this has been... I'm what are we doing next? What's our next book on the on the docket? I think we have coming up tiny habits by B J fog. Tiny habits all time, J fog. Yeah, really is, because when we think about coaching and we think about transforming behavior, whether that be internally or externally, as has my last question just predicted or are spoke to, all transformation, all growth, begins with a very small, simple step forward and, to the point of bj fog, starts with tiny habits. Great Conversation, Audrey. Thank you for joining me for another episode of banking on digital growth and our first behind the cover series. Thank you so much. This is really fun. Looking forward to more as always, and until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Leigh. To get even more practical and proven insights, along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growthcom slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and Fintex until next time, be well and do good.

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