Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

77) #ExponentialInsights: Your Customers Are Human, Serve Their Emotional Needs Ft. Eric Berg

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You can have the fanciest digital tools at your fingertips, but if you don’t serve your customers’ humanity, you’re going to fail.

In the new financial landscape, EQ beats IQ every time.

My guest today, Eric Berg, Founder and CEO at Netgiver, is an expert at upping your emotional intelligence and helping you better serve your customers’ emotional needs.

In this episode, we discuss:

- Why financial brands need to focus on emotional needs

- Why loyalty, trust, and affinity all stem from emotional connection

- Why your brand must stand for something

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.
 

...as financial brands. When we take a look at the fact that we are serving customers who are human beings, we need to need to be considerate of the fact that, okay, what are their emotional needs? Mhm. You're listening to Banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the Exponential Insight series, where James Robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show Greetings and hello, I am James Robert Ley and welcome to the 77th episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the Exponential Insight series, and I'm excited to welcome Erik Berg to the show. Eric is the founder and CEO of Net Giver, which is a mobile app that allows people to give to nonprofits directly from their financial brands account without incurring fees for the charity to whom they are helping. Welcome to the show Eric James Roberts. A pleasure to be here with you today. Thanks for having me. I am glad that you are here, Eric. And one of the things that I'm curious about as we start this conversation is what's going well for you right now. What's the win? What's something that you're excited about? What's something that you've learned or what's something that you're looking forward to? Well, I'll tell you what, It is going to be 60 degrees in Minneapolis today as we record this and coming off of three weeks ago when it was minus 12, I got to tell you, the sunshine is making me feel good today. James. Robert, I'm very pleased. Spring is on the way. 60 degrees, man, I'm right there with you were actually a little bit warmer here in Houston because you send all of this nasty cold weather down down our way a few weeks ago. And I think we got down to 16 degrees in H Town and we are not built for that. But fortunately we're back up. It was 72 over the weekend. Blue skies and sun spent, spent a lot of time outside with the kids and, um, actually did did a little bit of work outside on the on the patio this morning with my coffee. So it's great to get back into spring. Spring has sprung. I think. I think we're We all need this right now. You know, coming out of this winter and covid and I don't know. I feel like there's a positive lift just across a lot of people. A lot of conversations I've been having, What about you? I'm feeling that, too. I think that the idea that some of the restrictions are being able to be lifted a little bit the vaccine is on the horizon for most people. You know, I think people are looking forward to summer and getting outside and festivals and and sort of...

...just this whole pent up you know, This whole pent up covid thing is it's going to be fascinating to see what happens when people come out of covid and get to go back to their normal lives. I sort of feel like it's going to be like kids in the candy store. It's going to be a little bit crazy, but it's good because if you know, as of recording one year ago, almost around this time like we were in a very different place. It was a lot of confusion, like what's happening? What's going on, How do we process? How do we deal with all of this? And you're right. I feel like there's a There's a level of hope and we're seeing We're seeing something even bigger and better and brighter ahead, which is what I want to talk to you about today. And the work that you're doing with Net giver, which is specifically is a way to empower financial brands, to bank on purpose, to bank with purpose. And that's a very big undertaking from your perspective. And let's just define this first. What does that mean to you? Banking on purpose, banking with purpose in this financial services space? Yeah, it's a great question, and I really think that as we look at banking as we look at providing financial products and services to those that were serving in the industry, the thing that we really have to keep in mind and one of the things that we really have the opportunity to talk about now is this idea that people are emotional beings, right, and as emotional beings every decision we make is an emotional decision. As human beings, we justify them with logic. So we spend a lot of time justifying things, and so we may want to go buy a new car. But then we go home and we put a spreadsheet together and we do the pros and cons. We run the numbers. We figure out what we can really afford right, But we really want the new car. And the emotional side of that is what's really important because that's why cars come out with the new colors and new shapes and new designs because they want to entice you. They want to drive that emotional experience, an emotional connection. And so as financial brands, when we take a look at the fact that we are serving customers who are human beings, we need to need to be considerate of the fact that, okay, what are their emotional needs? What are their emotional decisions that they're making every day, and how can we best support them and and the way we can do that is by purposefully approaching their financial needs in a way that meets them where they live? I like that perspective. We buy with the heart, and then we justify that with the mind. And it's not just a one and done perspective. It's to your point. These are the conversations that we have with ourselves every day, some much larger than others buying a car, buying a home. Some might be more micro like getting the coffee. And I think...

...that's an interesting point. Like the idea of buying coffee. Starbucks. What is Starbucks tapped into? They've taken a commodity, a 10 cent cup of coffee and are charging charging multiples for it because of all of the experience that's tied around that. You know, you walk in and you know you don't have to walk in anymore. You can order on your phone and then it's all ready to go. But it's a unique perspective, and let's talk about that packaging up purpose into product positioning. What are those opportunities for financial brands Because, like that Starbucks cup of coffee commoditized. But Starbucks has been able to take it and really packages around this experience, but we're taking that idea of experiencing going even further with purpose. What are those opportunities to package purpose into product positioning for a financial brand. Yeah, that's a great question. And when you take a look at it and especially now where, you know, interest rates are so low and it used to be where you could compete and you can throw out products and services that you might be able to be a little bit better in in, uh, in an interest rate on something than you have been in the, you know than your competitor is. Now, when you look at it and you say Okay, so how can we put something in front of them that draws their emotional attention right to our financial brand? And one of the things that ends up happening a lot is You see, this is very common. You see the organization defense authorization holding up a giant check, right with a donation to a charity. Isn't it great? Look at this. $5000 that we gave to this charity. Well, first of all, who writes checks anymore, right? And secondly, Secondly, Why why aren't we not getting our members and our customers involved in this process with us? You know, why are we not saying? Well, look, we'll give 5000 if you give 5000 and to the things that you care about customer and persona and member of our financial institution. Because now we can engage with you in something you care about, as opposed to just putting a picture of something that we think you might care about. I love that perspective. We write that big check and we take the picture and then we post it. But in the subconscious mind what? What are we signaling? Because we don't write checks and it's something that's a battle that I've been fighting is let's transform that positioning from a checking account to a spending account in the work that you're doing. I almost see a spinning account Has the potential to be almost be packaged up as a giving we That's exactly right. We have. So we So we're working with our financial institutions so that they have giving accounts for their and what we can do from that is they connect net giving. They're giving account, and now,...

...as they're talking about splitting their paycheck up, they just direct the percentage of their giving from their paycheck directly to that account. Now you want to talk about where do you land your primary financial institution. When you split your pay check up, well, it goes to where you're giving comes from, right? So now you're talking about this purpose that the member of the customer has and their what's purposeful to them. What's important to them is where they direct those funds, right? So that's an important consideration. So, yes, giving account is something we talk about a lot ed naked. This is all about positioning. It's all about inviting people into the to the narrative, inviting people that have a like mind into the story. I can't help but think of Aspiration, which is a neo startup financial brand aspiration dot com. And as of recording their big positioning on their website when you visit, leave your bank change the world and they actually talk about turning every transaction into a positive action. And I liked what you talked about. You know, it's a giving account, not just for the account holder, but it's something that we can do in conjunction with the account holders. So we're creating value and we're creating good together for other organizations in the communities where we live, where we work, where we worship together. This is really, really fascinating stuff. Let me ask. I get where this is coming from. I'm seeing more financial brands, at least exploring this opportunity. Some are still not 100% sure. And I understand why. Because at at an executive level, a lot of leadership is left brain driven. They're driven by the numbers. They're driven by the quote unquote the data. I get it. I'm empathetic. But once again, to your point, we're dealing with people and people make a motive. Buying decisions. What holds some back from really just going all in on building, positioning around, banking on purpose? Well, I think one of the things that holds people back is that it's a change right and change is hard for everybody, right? But I don't necessarily think that change has to. It's not like you have to turn the Titanic in one swoop, right? I think what it comes down to is coming in and meeting your customers and your members in a place where to them, they're having those emotional decision. They're making those emotional decisions about what they do with the money they've earned. Giving it away is the most emotional one that they can that they can do. And when you do that, when you meet them there, even in the smallest little ways, you start to see a change in the relationship that you have with those with those members of those customers. Not every product or...

...service you offer reaches every member or customer of your financial institution, right? We think we we try to make a big, you know, a broad scope look at something. But even online banking right is really only you know what 60 70% of financial institutions, their customers or members using their online banking products. So even that is something that is growing over time is becoming more and more part of what each member and customer experiences with that. But when you take a look at providing services that meet people where they are and it's going to take some time, But you've got to start now, right, because the longer you put it off, the further behind you are in what's actually transforming the industry right now. You talked about you know, the neo Banks that are having those conversations right now with the younger generations, and there's a lot of information out there right now about the millennials and the Gens ears, and you take a look at the studies that have been done that show that what's important to over 75% of those generations are aligning their values with the products and services that they do business with. It's so important to them that they'll look toward that as a way to make a decision, even beyond price, even beyond other things, because that's an emotional decision. So where they align their values, it might be with a product or service that they that they loved their entire life or that their parents were part of. But it's likely going to be something is going to be completely different. So that's where I think banks and credit unions and financial institutions have the opportunity to change the narrative and say we're providing those same kinds of emotional connections that aren't just We'll take care of the We'll take care of the the analytical stuff on the back and make sure that's all taken care of for you, but where we meet you, where we meet you used to be in the lobby is now something that's changed. So I'm gonna hop on the other side of the table. I'm a CEO, man. Get where you're coming from. Conceptually, Eric, I like it. How is this going to positively impact my bottom line? Because I can feel where you're coming from. But can you Can you give me some confidence that you know what? This is a great decision. This is a great investment that we're going to make into our future by going down this path. Because you're right. I'm going to have to leave some stuff behind to get there. I'm gonna have to let go of what got me to where we're at today. From an operational model to continue. What can you do to give me some hope? What can you do to give me some confidence? Yeah, I think I think we can. And so I've got a little bit of a background in working in brand in sports. James, are we talked about a little bit in the past, right? So my sports background is one of the clearest examples that I can provide, right? So anybody who's been to a sporting event or been to the...

...theater or been to something that that, as as as you're sitting in the audience or in the crowd and the game is continuing and or the show is on, there is that opportunity where you're where you come alive, right? You come alive with the experience that you're a part of and more often than not, when you see things like, you know, a team win on the last second shot or the last second field goal isn't like that. And the elation that that takes place there those are the kind of things that were missing in the financial world. We miss those opportunities, right? So if and you take a look at what's happened to sports and the growth of sports over the course of the last 20 or 30 years or so, you take a look at, why is that? The growth that has existed in that is because of that emotional connection that occurs now. You take that ability to take that anywhere with you, with the phone or other technologies that we have the digital world that we that we can put in that. And now you're putting that with you with things like fantasy, sports and being able to gamify things and create games and create that emotional response. So what I would say to anybody in the CEO role in the CFO role of financial institution is this is how people live their lives. We need to meet those people where they are. And if we're not meeting those people where they are, If we can't have people cheering for our financial brands, then what can we do to be there when they're cheering? That's why we why we have sponsorships of financial institutions sponsoring sports teams and organizations and stadiums, those kinds of things, because they want to be part of that experience. So let's be part of all those experiences, not just the arenas, but also, you know, the five k walk, the you know, the church or the synagogue where they worship. You know, all those kinds of things are important to consider as well. So let's be in those spaces as well. And financial brands now have the opportunity to do that because you can go with your members and your your your customers because you're in their pocket all the time. Yeah, I also think to this is where we're seeing trends at the macro level of organizations moving in multiple verticals and and we can go back almost 25 30 years ago when, uh, John Eagleton he coined that term the triple bottom line, you know, profit, People Planet. But even if we go back more recently to it was It was August 1920 19. There were 100 and 81 CEOs in the United States that transformed a 22 year old policy policy statement that defined a corporations principal purpose historically was about maximizing shareholder return. And when you flash forward to how they redefine this in August of 2019, it came, and even Jamie Diamond was part of this conversation. CEO of JPMorgan Chase. So I think it's one of the things that we need to be tuning into because they...

...declared that companies should not only serve their shareholders but also deliver value to their customers, invest in employees, deal fairly with suppliers, and here here's the last point that really ties us all together and support the communities in which they operate. So if we're seeing this narrative at a much larger macro level, what are some of the opportunities that you see to bring this into the micro level, particularly for community institutions who have historically supported other organizations within the communities. But it's through the check writing, but now we can operationalize this. I think that's the opportunity. Technology has transformed our world, and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have to because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. And let's go back to defining a community, right? A community used to be that small little geographic area in which you serve your you know, your community, meaning the 12 for 18 square miles around your branch in your location. Right now, the community changes completely. And that's the thing about the neo Banks that I think is so impressive to see is just Their community is not based on geographic, it's based on emotion, and it's based on how they want to align their values with those neo banks that are doing things in their quote unquote. Communities that make a difference in those communities could be based on age. That could be based on, you know, other, uh, psychographic information, other demographic information. But ultimately end of the day. It's striking a chord, and I think you have a podcast a while back that talked about all those different financial institutions that are trying to serve different segments of those of those populations. And in actuality, you know, when you start talking about the emotional side of it and talking about the giving side of things, it reaches all of those different communities because everybody and everybody in the community has goals that they have when it comes to giving away what they their hard earned...

...money. Yeah, and you know it. Like, for example, you. One of the conversations that we were having is I'm a pet lover. I have four kids. We don't have pets, though. We're going to get a pet. We're gonna get a dog later because I was like until my kids get older, I was like, I don't need 1/5 child. I want them to at least maybe feed the dog. So but But I think of like chewy dot com, chewy dot com has has really built a community of pet lovers are EI has built a community of outdoor enthusiasts, and they literally it's not just a physical, it's a physical community. It's a borderless digital community that brings together people who have a shared affinity, a shared passion, a shared purpose. And so if I was to align myself as a financial brand, maybe around the dog lover or the outdoor activity, is there an opportunity to then frame the giving perspective for organizations that support this type of lifestyle or this type of love. Affinity. Am I thinking correctly here? Yeah, absolutely. And I think what it comes down to is and you brought. And so, yes, you have to go with the affinity with with where with where the heart goes and supporting that and and and bringing those together. And I think you you brought up chewy, which is interesting, right? Because the whole Gamestop thing just recently happened, right? And Ryan Cohen, the founder of Chewy Right, is one of the key people with it. That's within the whole Gamestop story in Saga on the board, and and now they're taking this physical store, right? And his whole plan is to take this thing and make it more digital and make it more accessible and make it more gamified on the outside. So you talk about a traditional brick and mortar right now to the idea of going digital and meeting meeting gamers where they are as opposed to being in the physical space, and that changes the whole thing. And so when we start talking about about meeting your customers where they are, that's happening on that on that end right there and you know, from a from a pet and a love of pet perspective being able to support things like humane society and those kinds of programs. You should meet your customers and your members at those locations and and those spaces where they where they have those connections? Yeah. And so Okay, great. I'm Billy building a coalition. Like Like more people are starting to understand this. We're working through a transformational journey internally. How might I be able to help bring more people along on this journey On this narrative of banking on purpose? What are the best ways to address those that might just push back a little bit. So we've got we've got a coalition. But to really make this, I think culturally, like, believed in internally first and...

...then externally second, cause if we don't buy into it and believe believe in this top to bottom, bottom to top, it's we're half heartedly moving down This But I I How can we really bring others along to see what we see? Yeah, let me give you so So here's here's a great example of This is something that happened to us recently. One of one of the credit unions that we work with was giving their employees a jeans Friday. Right where? Jeans. On Friday. If you contribute to our foundation using network right, so credit Union foundation, let's go ahead. And if you want to give to our foundation, you can wear jeans. On Friday, they saw some moderate success. And then the next week they said, You know what? Give to any organization you want and you can wear jeans on Friday and the results spiked their employees. Now we're engaged, and now we're saying, Look, it's what I care about Great. I'm all about that, right? So what does that mean? That means that is, if we turn our attention back on the audience that we're speaking to and saying this is about you making it about them. Now that transformation is easier to have because look, we are We're individuals, right? So even even if you're on the other side of the table and you're saying, Look, how can I make this happen? How do I How do I How do I transform into this? Think about it from the perspective of and you talked about it, James Robert about, you know, do good, right? I mean, go out and in the community, do good in the community. And as that happens, everything rises with the tide. So all ships rise with the tide. And so, as you're as you're looking at that in the community and you're out there and you're doing good, it's resonating with your customers. Is president of the community? It's resonating with everybody who is seeing what you're doing. It's not just holding a big check, and posting on social media is actually being involved in getting more and more people involved in. And when you do that, you'll see engagement and engagement drives the bottom line. So I think this fits back into defining a purpose statement, this idea of doing good, which, as you and I were talking about it, it's not focusing on self, but focusing on those that we serve those that we create value for. And I'm gonna use our AI here as an example, and this is on our ei dot com forward slash uh philanthropic, uh, the philanthropic side of their business. That's a tongue tongue to us right there, they say. We believe a life outdoors is a life well lived that our connection to nature is essential to our humanity. That has guided our reinvestment back into the community for over 80 years. And today, more than ever, we dedicate our philanthropy, our our philanthropy to ensuring that every person can benefit from time outside. And then they go on and talk about how they're making these...

...investments and that the subhead is in 2019 r E. I invested over eight million to more than 400 nonprofits throughout the coop and foundation grants. So they're they're showing, like being a part of this r e I community. You're doing good for others. If there's one recommendation that you can make to a financial brand to really help them take the first steps, what is that next? Best step that micro. And I think that's what's the micro commitment to move forward and make progress to committing to bank on purpose or to bank with purpose. Yeah, I think it's involving your members and your customers in the giving that you're doing in the community, right? I think that's the number one thing, and what's great you give the r the R E I example, and it's a great example because going back to a little bit earlier in our conversation when we talked about the younger generations wanting to align their values with the products and brands that they support. Aria is doing that because they see that that's who their core customer is going. If it's not the core customer, now is who their core customer is going to be within the next several years, right? So they're they're they're talking to that audience, that persona right, who loves the outdoors, who loves being part of nature and who loves the idea of being able to give back. That's what they're talking to. Financial institutions have a wonderful opportunity right now to be able to I mean, they they get to they the money exists in the accounts of their customers and their members and that money, part of that portion of that money, is going to be used to be given away. Two things like the outdoors, right? So it's where it starts. So to be able to be a part of that decision, right? If somebody wants to donate to the great outdoors where that starts is within your financial institution, you're at the beginning of that journey. So no matter what that member or customer cares about, you're at the very core at the very beginning of that journey of being able to have that and help facilitate that relationship that they get to go out then and support the outdoors or support puppies or cats or or, you know, whatever it is that that that that's important to them gets to be part of your journey with them. And you get to be along with them and that whole thing because it's where they bank. It's where they where they have their money and that money is what is what they're giving away. I want to bring in another data point for the dear listener to start to connect all of these different dots together. This is from Korn ferry dot com, and this is published In a recent survey quote. 63% of millennials essentially workers under 35 said the primary purpose of business should be to quote, improve society instead of quote generating profit. And so we're starting to see all of these different...

...data points. I think it's a it's important that we address that for the dear listener and, you know, coming from an analytical, you know, bankers brain background. Because now we can connect the heart and the mind together heart and mind, data and emotion. And that is where the real transformational experience begins. This is This has been a fantastic conversation, Eric. I really appreciate the insights that you've shared. If someone wants to continue this discussion with you, what's the best way for them to reach out and say and say hello? Yeah, by all means pretty simple. My email address is Eric at net giver app dot com net giver app dot com and that's that's a great way to get a hold of me. You can also look me up on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn and feel free to message me there. So those are two great places to get a hold of me. And what's the next big thing? What's the next big thing that that that you and the Net giver team are doing? I expect we can't wait. We can't wait, because once you once you start talking about this idea of creating this emotional relationship where you're part of the giving experience of your members, what ends up happening next is you earn trust once you earn their trust and generate the trust. Now, when you say to them, Hey, we've noticed that you're a giver. We noticed you give to this organization of that organization on a regular basis. We really think that this product or this service from our financial institution, would really help support your life. Now you change the narrative. It's not just now pushing a product that somebody who doesn't necessarily needed or wanted at that time it gives you the opportunity to have a conversation about a new credit card that might lower their interest rate or a new car loan that that might allow them to go back and get that shiny blue card that they've been running numbers on. You know that they've been looking at for a long time Now it's an opportunity to say, Hey, these people have supported me in my giving. I'm going to go back and now I feel like I could trust them to be able to handle my my car loan or my mortgage or my refi or whatever it might be, and building that trust is important and net giver. We're taking the next steps towards being able to draw a correlation between giving and where people spend and how and how they spend. So we're working on a giving score that will tie into this idea of not just a credit score but a giving score that will tie into how people give related to how strong their financial health is. So adding that to a credit score is something that we can't wait for. We're so excited to be able to to take a look at the data between giving and and financial health and and be able to look at at what, that what that can provide. So we're very excited about that. I cannot wait to see how that continues to evolve, because I can't help but think of just some of the reading around like the work of Napoleon Hill, and think and grow rich and how all of this starts to connect together and you mention trust. Trust...

...is the currency in which we trade on in this digital world, and it can take weeks, months, years to develop enough trust enough goodwill for two to transform someone's behavior to move money around et cetera. But if we look at the pyramid of human relationships at the foundation, it's all about respect. Help me when I the consumer has a need, not when you, the FBI, has a need. So that's respect. At the pinnacle of the pyramid of human relationships is love, which were, you know, we could go down and have a philosophical conversation around the five different types of love from the Greeks. But what we're looking at digitally, it's it's just commitment. It's applying for a loan. It's it's opening up in an account. It's making that commitment to the F I. But to bridge the gap between respect and love. It's the word that you just shared its trust and trust is built upon two things. What you say and what you do. And a lot of that comes back to this idea of banking on purpose, banking with purpose. This has been great, Eric. Thank you. Well, let me just throw this in there, too, because from a brand background, when we talk about brand and it sort of goes back to things we're talking about in the podcast when you want to grow your brand, you want to build your brand. You want to build that trust, you make a promise right, and those are the promises you're talking about, right? So when you make a promise that you're going to do X, Y or Z four year customer for your member, and you fulfill that promise, you increase and garner brand equity and trust, and you create a more a tighter bond between you and remembering your customer. And what's important about that is that you need to have a number of those things happening all at one time in order to continue that relationship, just like any relationship you have with your wife for your kids, you know, you make a promise. You want to fulfill that promise when you fulfill that promise that builds trust. When you build trust, you build affinity. When you build affinity, people are more likely to stick with you. And as you do that and continue to provide that you create a more emotional connection. Flip side is also true when you don't deliver on that when you when that emotional connection, when that when that promise isn't there right and where you're not when you're not meeting your customers' needs when you're not fulfilling your brand promise. Trust the roads. And when trust the roads, things like, You know what? It doesn't matter that that the institutions right across the street I can. I can trust somebody online just as easily as I can trust somebody across the street. I don't trust them. You know that profits are too high. They spend too much money on this. They charge me too many fees on that. All those kinds of things are things that erode that trust a little bit. So how can we build back with products that help support what the member with the customer cares about? And that's really where never comes into play. And that's really what we're excited about. So well, this is great. This has been great, great stuff, great perspective, great insight. Thank you so much, Eric, for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thanks, James Robert Appreciate It's been it's been a pleasure to be here today. Absolutely, and as always,...

...until next time be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James Robert Ley. Like what you hear? Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there. To get even more practical improvement insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James Roberts. Best selling book Banking on Digital Growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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