Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 3 months ago

190) #ExponentialInsights - Tackling Risk Management Head-On

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

A lot of marketing and sales teams equate governance, risk management, and compliance (GRC) to a handcuff. How is fintech supposed to evolve with GRC factors holding them back?

Risk is everywhere, but by addressing GRC head-on, we can mitigate potential roadblocks in the innovative process.

My guest, Amanda Cohen, director of GRC Products at Resolver, breaks down the GRC playbook and gives us the winning strategy for the compliance caveat.

By promoting risk intelligence, we can prepare ourselves for the unknowns in risk management.

Join us as we discuss:

- How clarity can ease tensions when dealing with risk management

- Why inadequate marketing strategies often lead to compliance failures

- How your institution can transform attitudes regarding GRC

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Amanda Cohen

- Resolver

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

That if you sit and say what are your top risks, everyone's going to say, Oh, it's my cyber risk and you know, I'm really concerned about these five things, and but those are actually probably, you know, some of the most talked about things that are happening in your business. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Laigh, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Leigh, and welcome to the one hundred and nine episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Amanda Co into the show. As the director of GARC or governance, risk and compliance products, that resolver the worldwide leader and risk in security management software. Amanda is reimagining the way over five thousand of the world's largest organizations, including financial brands and fintex think about their relationship to risk. And, as we all know, risk is a relationship we're going to have to get comfortable with, because risk is not going away anytime soon and an ever increasing hyper connected digital world, which is why I'm looking forward to today's conversation. Welcome to the show, Amanda. Is so good to share time with you today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Before we get into talking about risk, I want to start off on a positive note, as we always do on the show. What is going well for you? What is good in your world right now? Well, I think I mean the weather is getting better, so that's a really good start after a pretty long Canadian winter. But beyond that, I guess two weeks ago we were acquired by a company called Croll, and cral is a leading Global Risk Governance in growth solution provider, which is pretty exciting. I've never actually been on the receiving end of an acquisition, so it's nice to kind of like see what that feels like and go through that's a lot of learning, but ultimately a why I think we all think it's pretty exciting is that at resolver our goal is to transform risk management into risk intelligence and they have a very similar mandate, very similar vision, and so we think the pairing of that is really great. And then they bring a ton of subject matter expertise to the organization that, I think we'll just really help build us up and build us into an even stronger business, which is exciting. I like the way that's framed risk governance and growth, transforming from risk management to risk intelligence, which will get into here on the show, because when I think about the word risk, risk management, compliance, I know that that these words typically send that since chills up the spines of marketing teams,...

...even sells teams, leadership teams at financial brands and Fintex and the relationship between marketing, between cells, and risk management, between compliance, sometimes has some tension associated with it. And and I found that this tension is often because there's a lack of clarity, there's a lack of awareness of why this is important to have this conversation, and that's where I want to start our conversation here is to clear the air between marketing cells, GRC what is the reason that we see tension in these spaces, typically from marketing team. Cell seems all compliance. They're just trying to shut us down and they're not going to let us have any fun. But it is through a heart of purpose, it is through and tension and it is through ultimately, so that we can continue to grow as a financial brand, as a fintech. What's the reason for the tension? Well, I think I mean, as you stated, there's a lot of there's not a ton of clarity in terms of what the two teams are trying to accomplish, and it seems like they're often trying to they're competing for against different goal of different priorities. But so compliance or risk even they can often be seen as at a barrier to innovation as opposed to someone who can help you grow, yes, and help you achieve your targets or strategic objectives. And so I think when you start to think about how these teams can understand each other's value a little bit more earlier on in the process, then you can work together a little bit more thanfully. So actually, one of your guests a few weeks ago, Howard Tarsky, he talked about he gave an example of opening up an account and how. You know, historically a lot of financial institutions they send over like a paper document and then you're signing it, or maybe you get the luxury of getting that PDF document. But if you're not, you know, creative enough to know how to sign that PDF, you know that can be a challenge and it's just a barrier to getting you through to the next process. And so if you take a step back and say, okay, what are obligations that we have to achieve, regulation actually very often is more guidance space than prescriptive, and so there's no like it must be done in exactly this way. A lot of the time there's obviously exceptions. But if you can think about it as like how to guide Your Business and then you can say, okay, we're looking at innovating on the way that we introduce new account holders and you introduce compliance to that problem early, you're going to have way more success because you're not building this entire program you've kind of got everything aligned, you've got exactly how you want to execute it and your final check is opal, let's just validate it with compliance, and then compliance is like, okay, let's go back to the beginning. You missed X, Y and Z. If you talk to them early in the process, then you can you know, you know what to expect. You're getting ahead of those challenges and then you're building out your new product line, your new service, whatever it may be, in a way that's, you know, adheres to the regulation and people can be much more flexible when they're brought in earlier in that process. That's a great perspective in one that that really, I feel, marketing can understand through...

...an empathetic lens, because marketing often the limits. Oh, we're brought in way too late. We need to be brought in early and often to help facilitate the conversation about how we can bring something to the market place. And I think compliance feels the same way. So there's a there's an empathetic conversation that can happen there. I'll tell you to financial brands and fin text that have been in our banking on digital growth program those that bring compliance in to learn alongside marketing, alongside cells, alongside leadership, are the ones who go the furthest farthest fast. Is because there's a common language. We we we remove some of the frustration and tension, because we're all now working towards a common goal. And I think another thing when it comes to risk management, historically, and you touch on this a little bit, I want to go deeper here, is that it is viewed from a reactive lens, once again kind of coming in a little bit too late. However, the opportunity looking ahead is where risk management can we can transform it from a reactive nature to a proactive nature, to be more responsive, not through the traditional lens of what you were talking about earlier, risk management, but now risk intelligence. What does that mean? Risk Intelligence and the transformation that can happen here. Where might there be some opportunities available? Well, I think when I mean the whole governance risk compliant space, they're, forre meant to provide assurance on your business. They're meant to make sure that things are going in accordance to way that they're supposed to, very high level. Bad things don't go wrong. And so if you start, if risk management is considered just the activity, and you see this like I'm sure everyone's had the team from risk or the team from them why it show up and they're like, okay, well, tell me about your top risks and it's like, okay, well, you know, you're taking away from the time in their day first and foremost, and you know, everyone in the business has their own objectives, they have their own goals and responsibilities that they have to achieve. So they're coming in, they're asking a bunch of questions, they're asking for a bunch of evidence and things to prove that your programs operating smoothly. However, maybe you just got US those same questions two weeks ago from you know, a different part of the business. Maybe audit came in and they asked you the exact same questions. So management of it is really you know, it's a process. It's like how do you get from step a to step be to step see and then, you know, present your final report and here we go. And ultimately we just think that organizations are so much more aspirational than that. Yes, okay, so, yes, you've achieved that and maybe that's the starting place and you have to start somewhere, and I we can all acknowledge that. But actually, like your risk daytlives everywhere and you think about risk and you talk about risk every single day. If you're crossing the street like you're looking both ways. You're mitigating your risk if you're making an acquisition. Again, bigger risk evaluation. Are Evaluating risk. And so when you think about risk intelligence, it's like we're all the places in your business that these risk events can occur. And so how do you feed that data intelligently...

...into your risk program so that when you're evaluating something, you're truly making it with all the information at your fingertips, as opposed to, you know, going out and asking that interview when you know back and forth, and then consolidating it in some kind of spreadsheet that you're going to present in one single powerpoint slide and there you go. It's just not as powerful as having the insights, having the analytics, being able to you know, well, those things are going wrong over there and those things are going wrong over there, and that's what's really elevating our risk posture. It gives you a much more holistic view of what's happening across your business. I like this idea of taking this holistic view to your point and using this insight, this data, really to gain insight, even to gain foresight into the future so that it doesn't catch us by surprise. You mentioned, you know, risk management compliance auditors going around asking, we know, what do you see is the top risk from Your Lens of the organization? And earlier this year you'll publish an article that list the top twelve risk for financial institutions and the risk at the top of this article was damage to company reputation, something in a mini financial brands and finntext they're thinking about. But you feel that there's a much deeper, a much darker, much more dangerous risk lurking below the surface. Think of it like a great right shark just waiting to strike a poor surfer who's bliss of blissfully sitting at the top of of on top of the water, waiting to catch the next wave. What's the danger here? What's the real danger that financial brands and Finntex should be thinking about? Why should they fear the unknown? Well, there's I mean there's a lot of unknowns, and I think I can pull it back to an example of even like within our organization. So if you talk about if you sit and have a conversation, we just kind of polluded to that. If you sit and say what are your top risks, everyone's going to say, Oh, it's my cyber risk and you know I'm really concerned about these five things. And but those are actually probably, you know, some of the most talked about things that are happening in your business. HMM. You know, your executives aware of it, your whole company in some capacity is probably thinking about those things. It's top of mine because they are your top risks and so, whether you're consciously running it through a risk management program or not, their things that are being discussed, their things that are being mitigated. A guest. When you start to pivot your question and say, rather than what are my top risks, what are the things that are the least controlled within our organization, then you're going to have a bit of a different conversation. And so we asked that question last year and we were like, okay, we know where top risks are. Cyber what we were a tech company. We feel like we're very on top of that. But what we got into as we started having that conversation was actually some of our third parties. And so, you know, we had just introduced this new partnership. We were so excited and you know, we were seeing traction from it and that was really great. But now we've got this almost like the single point of failure right of what if that company that we're working with gets acquired? What if something happens to them? But...

...yes, we've done our due diligence. But you know, we need to diversify our portfolio a little bit to make sure that we're not solely reliant on one particular partner to help us achieve our revenue goals or help us support our customer needs. And so we wouldn't have got to that conversation if all we asked was what are our top risks, because we would have talked about the fact that, you know, we have cyber risk, but we are stalked to certified and we're ISO certified and we've got all those things in place to make sure that we're protected. Once you start uncovering and going a little bit deeper, that's when you're going to find, you know, the risks that polls challenges to you hitting your objectives, and they might not be kind of at the forefront of what you're thinking about. You have to really say, like, what are we not thinking about? And that's where you're gonna dig a little deeper. I like that. It's what are we not thinking about. It's the not so obvious. That's the old adage. It's what you don't know. It's the own unknown that will ultimately get you in the end. And I think another area that I want to dive into here, and really through the Lens of marketing and cells, because you wrote some great pieces on both perspectives around the top five risk and one that acute on from the marketing side was a point to where the risk was inadequate marketing strategy, and I'm curious to get your take on this. What's the risk here, because through our research over the last five to seven years, we are continuously finding eighty two hundred and eighty five percent of financial brands lack a really true, well defined digital growth strategy and a lot of just simply dabbling in digital. They're doing a little bit here, the doing a little bit there, but but there's that a well defined path forward and that is creating some tension, that is creating some conflict and ultimate its creating some risk. So what's your take? Why was this one of the top five marketing risk that that financial brands and Marketing Department's face? Well, I think cohesively, you need a strategy. That's connected. So if you're planning to go into a digital space, then if that's your top level objective, marketing needs to align to that. So to sales. So does you know your product innovation? Everybody. So there is this level of, you know, strategically, making sure that everybody is on the same page and then we're all striving towards the same goals. And so if you're not thinking about risks to your strategy and things that could go wrong, then you know, you might you might not understand the barriers of you know when, just when something maybe when to fail fast. I guess. HMM, it's you know you're testing something, you're testing something, but you know, maybe the risk reward isn't exactly painting out the way that you anticipated. So bringing risk into that conversation allows you to have a more meaningful discussion and say we've got this particular target, these are the types of things, this is our tolerance from a risk perspective. We're willing to undergo so much until it doesn't make sense for us to pursue that anymore, or if it is our top strategic priority me, but it keeps getting deprioritized...

...for other things. That's what additional investment do. We need to make sure that successful, because if you're you know, if you're putting your hands into many pots, you're nothing's really going to move forward at the rate that you needed to. Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fintext who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. Visit Digital growthcom slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show. That's a great point and for me one of the things is in marketing there is there's an abundance of quote unquote, Opportunity. That is actually probably more risk than anything. It's I always say, what are the few things that we can focus on that will create the greatest value, create the greatest results over time, instead of trying to diversify, like let's get really good at these core competencies. That becomes a strength, but then that also on the flip side, can become a risk. Back to your point of looking at like say, for example, vendors, we're relying on too few sources, but then it's also about building that strength, that capability. The same thing is true and another article five risks that keep cells leaders up at night, which sells and marketing alignment was one of these five points, and this article really hit on something else that we're seeing because, as you know, to the articles sells, people are often not aware of marketing strategies, or if they are, they just completely disregard them. And once again, I bring this up because these are patterns that we're seeing from financial brands in the banking on digital growth program and this point is where marketing and cells, seems, do have the potential to come together, to not look at their world through their own perspectives, but really unify around what I'm saying is to become the growth team, to have that common purpose and also maybe introduce compliance in here as well. Let's talk about what are the risk for financial brands that failed to bridge this marketing and sells alignment gap? What are they leaving up to chance? What's the unknown that could get them here? I think one of the biggest ones is like are you speaking the same language? Like if you have some messaging on your website and it's promoting a particular product and you've got your value, you you understand exactly who you're selling to and they've pitched it really well. But if that doesn't translate to sales, yes, then as soon as you've like people do a lot of their buying online, and so if you're marketing messaging is great, then it's like okay, well, yeah, I feel but then the salesperson has no concept of how to articulate that. Yep, then there's no alignment there. We were buying a car last year and this the sales rep was like, well, let me tell you about the difference between the features...

...of two thousand and twenty two versus two thousand and twenty one. I'm like, well, if you saw my two thousand and ten that I just drove in here, you're very clearly aware that I have not the difference between those two models of cars makes no difference to me. Tell me about, like the value of what I'm trying to buy. Right, clearly did not buy that car. Like I don't need the pitch on all the features. I want to know, like what value am I going to get from it, like how is this one ransform my life and make my world better? Because I'm here making a selfish decision about how to improve what I'm doing today. And if those two teams that the sales messaging doesn't match what the marketing team is saying, then you've just got complete disconnected. It's it's like just a huge barrier to being able to move forward in that process. Another risk that we see through this lens is for financial brands and even fintext who are generating leads online, different types of leads through different stages of the buying journey, but there's a disconnect in regards to handoff. Sometimes these leads aren't even followed up with and and they're literally leaving millions and millions of dollars on the table because these leads are just simply not being fought. There's this that even a disconnect from a language or positioning. It's a disconnect from just an overall handoff. Something else that I've heard too, and this was recently with the financial brand in our program they are talking about the risk around ratings and reviews, user generated content and I shared with them the fact that, you know, people trust people far more than the probably ever trust your financial brand. So, you know, let's build this into the system, let's build this into the process. One of their concerns was, well, we can position great as a marketing team, but then on fulfillment, on service, because they were taking a digital first approach, they mentioned that, well, maybe our mobile APP won't live up to how we're positioning on the front end. And they're already seeing that because of the negative ratings and reviews at their receipt and the Public Square, if you will. So the fact that they have this awareness, I think, is a positive step in the right direction. What would be something that you would recommend for people who have some awareness of these risk what do they do next to address them? So I think there's I mean there's all pieces of it. There's like what's the sales approach? What's the marketing approach? What do you need to innovate within your product? But obviously I think your first point was really important. It's like, okay, that's great that they've cut their starting to see that traction of reviews that isn't coming back as positive as they had like. So what are you doing to track that? Like how? What kind of metrics can you put in place to understand either that the sales process is for the marketing lead generation is not converting to sales the way that you thought, or people are slipping through the cracks. They're like, is there a metric in place? Can we feed that up somewhere? Because if there's no visibility to it and nothing's going to happen, if you don't have the insights, then like what? Why would anyone think that there is an issue there? And so you do need to get the mechanisms in place to start to track that, like from like the risk perspective, we would call those a key risk and cater that we would...

...want feeding into our risk management process to help understand our growth targets. HMM, you know. Same on the review piece. There's all of this information, like to the risk intelligence piece. There is risk everywhere in your organization. So what are the key risk metrics that you're concerned about? And then how can you automate that feed into your program even if you're not at the point of being able to automate it, it's like how do you get that and how do you understand the trend of it, because hopefully the trend is tracking down. Maybe you had some bad reviews, but we're tracking towards that. And so how do we compensate from that? Well, let's do an outreach. Let's see how many more positive reviews we can get to kind of absolutely the direction. Yes, and that's one of the things that we were talking about, is building in the outreach to move this in the other direction. And I like what you said about Kris or key risk indicators, because that really translates nicely into Kpias, or key performance indicators. On the flip side then, once again, and it's the unknown unknown that gets a lot of financial brands and that's one of the reasons I feel like training and education is so key to part of the innovation process, because the world is transforming at such a rapid rate that, you know, having that lack of clarity is a really dangerous place to be. And we've addressed a couple of real key issues here when it comes to marketing and sells teams. But I want to get really real with you, Amanda. GRC just is not a sexy subject for many. In fact, GARC could use some marketing and branding love internally as risk management as more of like a pair of boring but functional sweat pants. And and I'd say for the majority of our listeners in a hundred thirty five plus countries around the world working in financial services, working at a financial brands, working, I. Fintext, I'm willing to bet that maybe just a small, tiny fraction stays awake at night thinking about regulatory compliance. Everyone else's it's kind of a back of the mind thought. I want to get your take. What are the opportunities here for financial brands and fintext to transform their attitudes, to transform their beliefs really throughout the entire organization about compliance before it's too late? Well, I think I mean not disagreeing with you on that. I don't think it's the flashiest of parts of Your Business, but I think, I guess there's two fold to it. One is, if you're in the JRC space within the Fintech with kind a financial institution, don't make it harder on yourself, like if you also show up with antiquated technology and then you ask them to fill in something that's ridiculously hard. If you force them through that horrendously boring training video on password protection. Like I know I have to change my password, I know I have to use single sign on. I know these things and I don't want to do it every...

...year. It's like, what are the things that you can do to make that experience less awful? I guess on Your Business Users. So you know, we talked about it a little bit earlier. But if you go to the same person and I'm like, Hey, I really need my evidence for this and I really need this for this, but you're asking the same question over and over again, kept frustrating. Is that? Yes, I just answered it. I don't want to do it twice. I have bigger fish to FRY, like I'm trying to move on from that. And so if there's no collaboration between those teams, you're going to just get friction back from the business. How do you work together? If you can't work together, then you're not really presenting something that's cohesive or meaningful or even a semblance of exciting out to the business. But then I think there's the opportunity to rebrand a little bit. It's like, you know, is there a marketing stakeholder in the organization that could help you change that perspective, like how do you make this take it away from being something that is a must have to how does it impact your strategy? Okay, like here's these really cool insights that we saw. An example and I guess, a reason. We think that we're differentiated in the spaces were really focused on, incident management, insidant collection, and so you know, that can range from what kind of suspicious transactions are occurring, breaches, complaints, all the way to the vandalism and, you know, employee fraud, and so as you start tracking those things and it's like, okay, these are the things that are actually happening in our business and here's this real life picture of what's going on, and then you're feeding it into your risk program okay, well, already you've got a little bit more of a compelling story, right. You know, it's like these types of things are happening and they're not just theoretical. It's not just me asking an arbitrary question and saying, well, what do you think your risk is? And you're like finger in the sky, like I think it's I think it's high, I think it's my I actually think it's low, because I don't want to do anything about it. It's like, well, actually know, here's the data to a point to say that you've had, you know, exponentially more breaches last year than you did in the last three years. And so what are you doing about that? That's a more interesting question and it's a more interesting way of framing your risk conversation. Yes, just coming at them and saying, tell me about your inherent in your residual risk. I like the way that you're mentioning before. This impacts what I call x, or employee experience, and I truly believe that the better we can make the employee experience, the better we can also make the customer experience, because a positive employee experience leads to a positive human experience that can be exponentially multiplied through a positive digital experience. And so this does impact x as a whole. And I want to come back to the idea of thinking about transforming attitudes more probably deeper hearts, minds beliefs about compliance. What are some of the road blocks that the dear listener should be thinking about that could hold them back from moving forward and making progress on the front of GRC and from capturing some of the opportunities that we've talked here today. What are some of the roadblocks that they need to be aware of and just their on mind? First...

...and foremost, I think if you don't have executive buy and it's really hard to promote a program and get the company to buy in, because if your executive team doesn't feel like it's important, most people are not going to also jump on that train with you. So, but you're not going to convince your executive team that doesn't plant that it's important if you don't show up with insights. So, if all you're doing is coming to the table and saying, well, do you want to see the status of the program that we ran last year, it's like, not really, like. So, you did it. Any red flags meet? Okay, can you condense that ten minute presentation that I allocated to you for the executive meeting two, three or four. So, whereas if you come with the insights, and that's again like feeding some of that Incident Management Data and Oh, looks like we're having this huge problem with dropoffs between our marketing and sales process, if you can start feeding those types of insights into how you're achieving your strategic or you're attempting to achieve your strategic direction, then you've already got something that's more compelling than the executive team can buy into. I think that's first and foremost. I like that idea. I like that. I'd have an a pause real fast, because I think it's something that's very practical the dear listener can take away. If you are in marketing, if you are in cells or if you're on the leadership team, go to your marketing of cells team saying hey, this is something that I want to see, because it isn't just a status update. You're coming proactively once again with recommendations. This is the intelligence that we were speaking about too earlier. So continue. I just wanted to tie that point back together here. Yeah, no, it's great. And then the other things, like what's happening in the industry? Did you know the organization down the street just get some giant fine, like okay, so what could happen to our business? What are we at risk of because of the insights and the types of events that are happening to our peers, to our competitors? Like, if you don't have a pulse on that, I think that you're also doing yourself a disservice, like what are the emerging risks in our space that we need to be thinking about so that we can get ahead of them? And again, it's not status, it's like what should we be thinking about that will impact our strategic growth? And then you know you can't. But you can't do that if you're spending all your time like consolidating this list and excel. And then you've got your red light, red, yellow, green rape light that you're putting in front. Everyone's seen that. You know that one slide that ends up in the deck and it's like, you know, our highest risk is this and we're doing here's these three bullets about what we're doing about it. And like then you move on. MMM, like if that's all you're spending your time doing is collecting that output and you really aren't spending your time focusing on all of the different insights and inputs that are coming into your business that actually have true impact. So I think you need to step away a little bit from that. Obviously Ros software providers. So like, yes, get off excel and move to technology, but beyond that, it's like stop focusing on collecting, consolidating information and Excel and start thinking about how do you manage and collect insights for in your organization? Well, I want to push on that pain a little bit further because we see the same exact thing on the marketing and cells side, for example, like Legion and lead management is still being done in excel spreadsheets that are on...

...a shared drive. Like that's what crm is for, this is what technology is for. It's the really help automate the predictable so that we can focus on humanizing the exceptional. This gets back into the you know, improving the x the employee experience. But to the point you're making before, unless you have executive buying, you're probably not going to get any traction here. And so it's really pushing and poking on some of these pain points to like, does this really hurt? And it probably should hurt and we should be addressing these points because it is about our future growth. To Tie this back to how you started this conversation here and I want to look ahead to the future a bit as we start to wrap up this conversation. A man, it has been a great conversation. I appreciate your thinking, your perspective, your insights. What are you most hopeful about. What are you most excited about when you look ahead towards the future of GARC, for financial brands, for fintext what are you most hopeful what are you most excited about? So I think what I'm the most excited about is I'm just seeing this pivot over the last particularly like year two. Everything in risk us to be very like here's my risk category. It used to be very management and we've gone over that a lot, but it's like it's very how do I run a risk assessment process? And that's fine, but it's also pretty boring and you know, it's it's a workflow. People can do workflow. But now we're really starting to see a lot, particularly in the Fintech they're the most on top of it, but they want to really connect their systems together and I think if you integrate your systems and that's when you start to get those insights, like that's really powerful. And so this integrated risk concept, which is actually starting to materialize, not just in theory, but I'm truly seeing people on the ground like really connect a bunch of data sources together, use this information and then drive decisionmaking, has been something that wasn't happening for years ago, three, four years ago and now, because it's so easy to integrate your systems, and it should be really easy. You should have access to all the data you need, absolutely tips within minutes notice, and so as we're seeing people take on that initiative within their organizations, like their risk insights that they're getting and what they're sharing back to the executive teams, is just so much more powerful. That idea of you touched on, Fintech really leading the way here. It's about data integration, and I see this too with financial brands, you know, for those who are looking at and exploring and thinking about bass banking as a service, you know, bringing together all of these different data points. Why? Why is it do you think Fintech is leading the way here? I see Fintech leading the way a lot of different areas and my only hypothesis is it's typically driven from a more entrepreneurial perspective. What's your take on that? Why FINTA is leading the way here? To say it,...

...compared to maybe the incombent financial brands, it's just nice, a nonnegotiable for them, like they walk in there like if integrating your systems, if automation isn't an option. What am I doing, wasting my time with you? And so they expect what they're producing in the market to be the same types of tools that they're working on. Yes, and that's those are the companies that really drive you forward, because, realistically, why should your be to be tool be any different than what you offer to a be to be or to a be to seek helper? So, like the tools that you work on every day, if they're not super easy to use, if they're not really easy to get the information you need in and out of the system, then why use it? And so that's Bein text just they're like, well, these are the tools we offer and we expect the exact same caliber, or better, for the tools that we use internally. And so they push us forward and they make sure that you're continuing to make those things accessible, which, you know, rising tide lifts all boats, I guess, and that means that everyone gets to have that kind of experience, which I think is really positive. I like that idea of collaboration, because our rising tide really does raise all ships and we're all, you know, we're all pushing each other to be even better than what we were the day before, the week before, the month before, the quarter before the year before. As we wrap up here, I want to get really practical with one last question, because all future growth begins with a very small, simple step forward. What is one small step the dear listener can take at either their financial brand or their Finta like to make progress on their GARC journey? Something small that they can commit to do next? What would be that one thing you would recommend? I don't think you need to boil the ocean on this, but find one example where you can tactically show how the information on the ground impacts your strategy. I think there's like you can't do it everywhere, but it's like here's how this insight that I found and the risk that comes from it helps us have a better conversation. And so if you can really focus in on gettinging that one example, then I think you can show the value of what a program can look like and how it can exponentially help your business as a whole. But you need to find that example it's really powerful, that has resonance and that either resonates with executive or it resonates with your risk team, whatever it may be. To help drive that vision forward. Great Thinking, a man a great conversation. What is some what is the best way that someone can connect with you to continue the conversation, the dialog, just the discussion that we started today. So you can reach out to me on Linkedin. It's Amanda Cohen, or if you go to the resolvercom website, there are countless ways to get ahold of us and I swear you won't just get dropped off the mailing list with the transition. Will find a way to get in touch with you. Connect with Amanda, learn from Amanda, grow with Amanda. Thank you, Amanda, for joining me for another episode of banking on digital growth. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having me. This is great. Until next time and,...

...as always, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Leigh. To get even more practical and proven insights, along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growthcom slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fintext until next time, be well and do good.

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