Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 3 months ago

220) #DigitalGrowthJourneys - Being Over Doing: Purpose-Driven Digital Transformation


Purpose-driven digital transformation allows us to bring lessons from our past into the future. With a clear vision, banks and fintechs can confidently move forward and bring their communities and customers along.

From navigating conflict to managing exponential change, purpose gives us perspective and frees us from the fear of the unknown.

In this episode, Rilla Delorier, Board Director of Atlantic Union Bank, shares insights from her 30-plus-year purpose-driven journey.

Join us as we discuss:

- Why purpose plays into digital growth for financial brands (6:04)

- How purpose-driven transformation positively impacts the bottom line (19:37)

- Leadership’s role in reassuring employees and customers (29:01)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Rilla Delorier


- Cool Change with Chuck Allen

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

I'm not saying we should risk, you know, an institution. We shouldn't risk our customers money, but we can take some risk in serving populations that need to be served or employing employees who aren't the traditional background, or by listening in ways that we've never listened before. You are listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the Digital Growth Journey series, where James Robert Uncovers and explores some of the industry's biggest digital marketing and sales stories of success. Let's get into the show readings in Hello, I am James Robert Lay and welcome to episode two to any of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the Digital Growth Journey series and I'm excited to welcome Rela delaureate to the show. Rela is an independent corporate director with over thirty years of executive experience, now building a portfolio of board and advisory roles to provide value for organizations looking to transform their Omni channel customer experience, accelerate growth and unlock new market opportunities, and today I'm looking forward to talking with her about the intersection of purpose, culture and Change. Welcome to the show, Reala, it is so good to share time with you today. Great to see James Robert. Before we get into talking about we'll just call it your digital growth journey and where you've been, where you're at and where you can continue to go, looking ahead forward with courage and confidence into the future. What is good right now for you, personally or professionally, in the present moment? Uh, personally will I live in Portland's Pacific northwest and the summertime here are extraordinary. Sun comes up around five am, doesn't go down to like ten thirty and it is beautiful sunshine the entire time in between. So I actually went on a full moon paddle board trip with a bunch of friends the other night. That was pretty awesome and taken taken full advantage of Pacific northwest camping this weekend. Professionally, I am loving my shift from being full time kind of banking executive for thirty some odd years to now being on a series of different boards. So it's a portfolio of work where I get an opportunity to deal with multiple different problems from different angles, typically a higher altitude than when you're actually an operator, and I have found that fascinating, especially as we're going through this market shift on what is the role of a Fintech and a bank and how is the recession going to impact everybody, and the change in Fintag valuations from everything being a billion in dollars to now people being a little bit more realistic and valuations. So that, professionally, has been an awesome, awesome shift and I'm learning a ton. You're correct, we are experiencing, seeing, feeling even a tremendous amount of change in the space. If we come up to that thirty thousand foot view that you're at right now. What are some of the patterns and trends the dear listener needs to at least pay attention to be aware of so that you know, hopefully we can avoid some surprises down the road. So the shift, you know, when I first I'm on two bank boards, one traditional bank that's heavy and commercial banking, Twenty Billion Dollar Organization on the East Coast, and then also a banking as a service organization that banks a lot of Fintechs or thirty different FINTECH organizations. And then I'm also on the board of a financial technology company. And what, like the previous year, year and a half, has been, has been really interesting to see how fin techs measure. Different things, were rewarded for, different things, had different value drivers. So, for example, banks traditionally, as we know as bankers, have been focused on efficiency ratio and earnings per share and R O A, R O E, R ot C, e Um, a lot of kind of backward looking financials around performance, and Fintech companies have really been valued on what's the opportunity, what's the forward opportunity around total addressable market, revenue per customer, opportunity to get more revenue per customer, adjacencies and you know. And so therefore, their their valuations were based on what could happen, not what has happened. So being in the board and both of those, those different cultures and those different conversations, it's always been hard for me to balance..., well, don't we care, like what's actually happening and thanks, don't we care about what could happen? What's happened recently with this recorrection is, I think, fin techs are now being held a little bit more accountable for things like current revenue, revenue growth rate, profitability, burn rate. Um. Yes, adjustable market matters, but their pace at which they're getting it and the profitability of the market that they are serving is starting to matter a little bit more. Um and and that's been a pretty interesting shift. And and of course, the conversations in all the boardrooms is around how is this recession on? How's the war house supply chain? How is that all affecting, of course, the rate adjustments? How is that affecting the customer? Because at the end of the day, that's how we make our money, is how are we serving the customer? And what's the customers financial stability? And as that changes, the are a lying kind of revenue stream for these institutions. Changes need to really be thinking at the customer level, and so that has been a good deep dive in each organization to just make sure we are keeping that customer's needs in mind and staying out ahead of what changes may be occurring. I like your perspective on really kind of exploring the past and then also future focus, but then bringing it here. It's almost the present moment and you've experienced a tremendous amount of change over the last thirty years of just your own journey of growth, personally and professionally, and every step along the way you you've continued to make forward progress, which I think that's what it's all about. We we want to continue to move forward with courage, with confidence. But I want to get your take here, because you talked about people, the customer Um. What role for you personally has purpose played on your own journey of growth, because I think that's a key opertunity. Whether you're Fintech, whether your financial brand, whether you're collaborating, how does purpose play into this for you personally? Before we'll flip this over to the professional front, well, Gosh, you know, I have my own motto of that that I actually created in fourth grade because we had a teacher who encouraged all of us fourth graders to come up with a life's motto, which was a bit ambitious, and my motto has been have fun and make a difference. Um and I find the to go hand in hand. If I'm making a difference, whatever level, you know, to one employee, to one customer, to one, you know, part of the community, then I'm also having fun and those those have gone together and in fact they that motto, which has stayed with me, has really caused me to rethink my job. Sometimes, if I'm not having fun and or not making a difference, then why am I why am I doing it? And I think that's true for all of us. We want to make a difference. We want to feel like the work we're doing is contributing in a positive way and that we can see that direct link between what we're doing and the goodness it's creating. Um, and I remember very clearly in two thousand eight U, which was just hell Um in the banking world. I remember actually Um my kids, who were young at the time, telling me not to wear my banker costume to their school. They didn't want me wearing my suit to the school because bankers were bad and we were kind of villainized. We were even less well regarded than were disrespected than lawyers at the time, and I was at a very large institution on the East Coast and we had seven thousand employees who were feeling bad about being a banker, when banking is noble work. Um, and we should remember that bankers are actually helping dreams happen, helping communities grow, helping companies employee people, helping people manage the stress their finances. If you if you think about what we as bankers do, we're hopefully helping people reduce their financial stress. And so at that time the CEO and leadership team of that of that organization said, Hey, we've got to remind ourselves why we're doing what we do and remind ourselves that banking is noble work and we are here to help people. And that was lighting the way to financial well being for customers and companies. And you have that purpose. You have a different orientation to what you do, how you do it, the types of products you serve and clearly these types of conversations that you have, the training that you give to your employees, what you reward, what you measure, what you invest in, and so being shifting that organization to becoming purpose driven, and it still continues on today, made a massive difference in...

...that organization's sense of pride and, frankly, it's a strategy. Making sure that the strategy oriented to truly delivering that mission. It wasn't just something you talk about which there's a lot of purpose washing. You know, if you're talking about not doing them Um and, and this organization was very disciplined around first you need to be oriented around the culture or the purpose. Then you need to do things that literally demonstrate commitment to the purpose, and then you can talk about it, then you can say it. I want to roll this back a little bit because I think there's a key insight here for the dear listener to take away, and you're just touching on it slightly, this idea of being versus doing. I am writing about this and banking on change, where there are the four seasons for exponential growth. There is a season, there's a time to learn, there's a time to think, there's a time to do, there's a time to review. Where I see many struggle and get stuck is in the doing, the season of doing, and we create a lot of attachment to this. Is what I do. We are not human doers. No, we are human beings and I think there's a lot of correlation here. That rolls back for you personally, back to that fourth grade moment when you wrote down this motto, and I can tell you personally, you know, for me, not having a personal purpose or not having a personal motto. I kind of was rudderless. I, you know, floundered around as an entrepreneur, had some really good early success, but then it led to a crash and it was through that, you know, value of despair, the dark night of the soul, if you will, that I think that I really found out like why I am here. And so if someone is listening and for me that is that is what I've simplified it. One B X BTR to make the world a billion times better by getting a billion people beyond financial stress towards a bigger, better, brighter future. Now, I'm not going to do that personally, but I feel that through the collaborations and the thinking and just all of that, because I'm just so cerebral, like that's my growth ability Um and to transfer that and bring people like you and to help transfer your knowledge. That's how we're all going to grow together to be even better. But for the dear listener who's like, I don't have a motto, I don't have something that I can anchor to and provide me personally. We're not even talking about culturally organizationally just yet. I don't have something what would your recommendation be for them to break free from the doing for a bit to review, to reflect, to learn and then maybe even think about why, like why am I here? How can I really tap back into being a human being, not just a human doer? Yeah, well, there's so much good stuff on that Um. You know, it's interesting because I am naturally wired to be a doer versus a beer Um, and my my husband is definitely more kind of intentionally focused on being and he read a podcast a while ago that said every good doer needs a good beer. And he's coached me through the years on how to just pause, just pause and actually build pause into your life. Um, to be intentional around. How are you being Um, and you know as a leader of organizations, when you're leading teams, when you're showing up in meetings, even if you're not not leading that team, you're participating in a team, to have a moment of setting an intention of how you want to be in that meeting or in that conversation with your child or in that you know, tense discussion with your neighbor, whatever. How do you want to show up? How do you want to be and how what do you want to make them feel, because and how do you want to feel at the end of that conversation? Um, that is actually what moves the needed more than what you do or what you say. It's how you show up and how they feel about you and the direction that you're setting and the information, the culture that you're creating. So I think, I think beaver uses do is credible. Of course you need to do of course you need to do people will do a whole lot more for somebody that they are really inspired and connected with, that they think is authentic and honest and transparent and not trying to hide anything and not trying to be right all the time. Um, I think. I think a lot of time on how you're being is time well spent. Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this...

...journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. VISIT DIGITAL GROWTH DOT com slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community. To maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show. You know, as you're talking through that, I can't help but think of the works of Geno Wickman Um, who has written prolifically around the idea of his methodology called Eos, or the entrepreneurial operating system Um. And for an entrepreneur to build a really successful organization requires two roles. There's the visionary role and then there's the integrator role. And in in my mind I almost kind of see the entrepreneur visionary is the essence of being where, like you said, back to chuck, it's like, for you know, every doer needs a beer and for every beer they needs a door. Well, that do or that's the integrator to make sure that the vision becomes reality. Now you touched on something here that I think is very interesting when it comes to financial services, particularly like internal because if we think about those leading banks, credit unions, Fintech, very smart, analytical, left brain driven leaders. But you're talking about some whether it's purpose or what you just said, kind of this touchy, feel good heart piece of the puzzle, piece of the equation, where might there be some conflict literally rooted in the mind of the leader when it comes to some of these more touchy feely subjects. How can we navigate some of that? That might be historically a little bit uncomfortable, but you've gone through this experience to bring purpose within an of very large organization. What does that look like for you to navigate some of the complexity here? Well, I think it's the hardest part of the job is to you know, banks or people, and the brand is the thousands of interactions that those people have with your customers. And that is not like making a product that comes off the manufacturing line that is, you know, always the same and very controlled. You can't control people. What you can do is inspire them. What you can do is provide vision and direction and then give them freedom within that framework to use their knowledge, to use their experience, to use their passion to do absolutely the best they can to deliver against that vision. I think when you try to provide rules and guidelines and scripts and policies and procedures that are like controlling humans to try to make them robot, aodic a WHO wants to do that job, people are going to leave and be the customer feels like this this employee that I'm working with has no no authority, no discretion and, frankly, no passion. So why would I be there? And I think letting go um as an executive and providing direction, inspiration, but also empowering and supporting employees is is, in fact, the most important work that you do Um and you're you're pointing around visionaries versus, I think you said, integrators. I talk a lot about the fact that organizations one of not only is it hard to manage thousands of people in a common direction, but you also have to wear bifocals. You have to kind of look down at the here and the now, immediate. How are you performing in the near term? You need to look a little bit on the horizon also, of like where are you going? And then you need to be actually looking further out on the horizon of like is anyone coming at us? And then what do we need to navigate and having and having people in your organization that are focused on perform. They might be different people than who are focused on transform of the organization. Transformation requires some risk taking, it requires some visionary thinking, it requires kind of looking up out of the day to day to look on that horizon. It might require different industry experience, it might require a different Um just personal set of personalities versus the people who you're asking to like, perform and deliver the day in day out. Perhaps they are a little bit more comfortable with, you know, black and white they've done not as comfortable operating in the gray. Maybe they don't want to take risks. Often organizations need to think about their talent differently based on what it is they're asking that that group to do, and it's hard to be in both places at...

...once, to work in the business at the same time you're working on the business in the future direction. I like that idea of perform versus transform and one cannot survive without the other. It's a symbiotic relationship of value creation and the idea of transformation, and we'll just kind of use this word very broadly, digital transformation, for example, cultural transformation, I mean even bringing purpose within an organization. What did that look like? What did that feel like? And I think, most importantly for the dear listener, they maybe have batted around this idea of purpose within their own organization, but then they're questioning that that that present moment, performance versus the transformational opportunity on the horizon. Looking back, how has purpose created a positive pact on the bottom line, while it might not have been experienced in the present moment, it was the inspiration to bring the future into the present that was the catalyst to move down that path. You know, I think purpose is by nature transformational and I think a clear purpose can help people at all levels of the organization, whether they're focused on transformation and they're focused on delivering today, understand why it is they're being asked to do what they're doing um and therefore they bring a different level of creativity and energy and meaning to the work that they're doing. So, for example, if, if our job is bankors, is to help people with financial stress, then empowering are, you know, teammates and the and the branches to have conversations with customers about their financial stress and and educating them on how to help customers kind of man edge that stress. That Um may not directly translate every conversation into a product sale and therefore revenue, but boy it builds good will which then can generate longevity, perhaps depth of customer, perhaps advocacy of that customer and over time becomes a brand that really stands out and eventually very profitably. The same thing is true kind of at the highest levels of if you have a purpose, then it helps you know strategically what to say yes to and what to say no to. If your purposes around reducing financial stress, then you want to invest in things, maybe using data and analytics to understand customers options and help guide them towards smarter decisions, rather than something that's just, you know, a product that is engineered for us to make more fee income. But at the end of the day, the custom there's going to be worse off for it. And and sometimes you need to sacrifice those near term profit opportunities for long term. I often talk a lot about CVS. You know, CDs stopped selling cigarettes. They lost billions of dollars when they stopped selling cigarettes, but that was because their purpose was to help people with their overall health, example, and lean into their pharmacy, lean into their insurance business, lead into their minute clinics or whatever theirs are called. And what they lost in a couple of billion dollars and cigarettes sales actually is now forty seven billion dollars a quarter in healthcare sales. And that and by way it's the right thing to do. So I think purpose translates into action all levels of the organization and ultimately translates into income. And sometimes you need to be a little patient, and we're not great at that, and it sometimes it's hard to calculate the R O I and you need to make investments that take a little while to pay off. That's where transformation comes from. I want to stay on this idea of transformation versus, we'll call it, just, you know, performing in the present moment, because when you're performing in the present moment and then you're thinking about transformation, which is the future, sometimes, and I think we're experiencing a lot of that. We've experienced a lot of that over the last couple of years and we're probably gonna experience this for at least the next next decade. Um. Everything that I'm reading in that perspective is being formed by history. We're essentially in winter, but I'm hopeful because what comes after winter is spring Um, and so that is what continues to give me hope in all areas of my life. But when you think about, you know, the the the chaos and the conflict of the present moment and that future might not feel so clear. It's a little confusing looking back over the last thirty years. How have you personally manage the complexities of chaos and change? So many leaders feel like... need to have the answer. Holy Crow, you do not need to have the answer. In fact, I think one of the reasons I was good at, you know, somewhat good at the jobs I was in this because they often, actually almost never had, I had the jobs of the people reporting to me. So I knew I didn't know their job as well as they knew their job. I had never done it before, so I needed to lean on them for their expertise, and my job was to weave together the team and connect it with other parts of the organization. And so admitting that you don't know is like, I think it's fuel to the organization. It's it's it's oxygen for your team to do their do their best work. So you absolutely need to recognize that you don't know. But your your your comment is right around chaos and Um, I do think metrics matter. I am a I'm a real data data person, and I think balanced scorecards that look at both lead and lag indicators and a whole lot more lead indicators and Lagum to tell you that you're heading in the right direction, because you may not see kind of a big movement at the you know, on the revenue or the net income for a while, but if you pay attention at the customer level and you pay attention at the employee level and you pay attention at the you know, at the micro level of why are we going the right way, can we tell we're making progress and measuring those things that really tell you you are in fact going the right way and using those measures to help the organization knows what matters and what they should be thinking about is really important. And there's so many organizations that just look at financials, they don't look at customer metrics, they don't look at employee metrics, they don't look at, you know, community metrics that look at loyalty or promoters were Um, and I think you need to have those qualitative indicators or those micro indicators that you are in fact going the direction that you set out to do. I like that idea of more of a holistic approach, because if you're kind of just looking at the bottom line profitability. I'll relate this to healthcare for a little bit. Well, you wake up in the morning, you're alive. That's a fantastic day, unless you're looking at, you know, Blood Pressure, glucose, all of these other areas that we probably need to be paying attention to, because that's a predictive measure. Are we going to wake up tomorrow, the next week, the next month, the next year? And and there's such a tremendous opportunity to combine the perspective of healthcare, you know, physical well being, mental well being and financial well being Um and that's where, if you look at this idea of purpose and and and using purpose as a North Star to navigate even the complexity of change and transformation, it's not something that we can do as an individual. Back to your point, as as a leader. A leader sometimes, and I hear this like they take on extreme amount of ownership, which I appreciate, but it's the way that the world has massively transformed at an exponential rate and will continue to do so because of just the technological progressions that we're going to make. We're not going to have all of the answers and I think the more that we become comfortable within that place of being, the more that we can lean on others to fill in those gaps, and that's the that's the role of collaboration here. So, culturally speaking, from a transformative perspective, the individual, the team, the organization, how can we help calm as a leader, specifically, how can we help calm some of the pain, uh and the anxiety that maybe people internally feel about the subjects of transformation of any type for that matter, to put their minds at ease here in the present moment, because otherwise they're going to take that pain, that anxiety, for with them into the future, and that's we want to try to reduce that as much as possible. You made me think of two different things, but one is, you know, a quote that I love is the more you include people in the process, the more they own the outcome and the closer you are to the you know, the process of the where you own the outcome and by engaging people in the process of setting the direction of understanding. If this is our purpose, what would it look like in your world? What would how would your job orient around that purpose and giving them empowerment to be a part of setting that transformational agenda as it pertains to their area? That engagement that enrollment process helps them maybe see why changes are happening, I feel like they're part of it, and maybe inspire them to do something differently so that they can continue to deliver on that on that purpose, even if their previous way of doing the job is going to change. And so enroll meant and...

...engagement in the process, I think matters. The other thing that you you sparked for me, though, is really the need for diverse thinking, to engage more different perspectives, different experiences, different types of people around the table and thinking about what transformation needs to look like, so that various facets of the organization or, frankly, facets of the market, are present in decision making. And it is so clear that the reason why banks are treading on the same products and services and customer segments and, you know, mass affluent, is because most of the time the people making decisions and banks look the same and have similar backgrounds. And something that I find truly inspiring and enabled by what you know, the fact that technology is making new operating models possible and that data is creating new ways of thinking about credit. We're eliness is that there's so many niche banking opportunities now that are serving customers who previously have had unmet needs because they haven't fit the credit box or the policy or, frankly, the people at the border and just didn't even know about that customer. Need have the life experience to relate to it. Um and I love that now there are fin techs, primarily some banks, who are saying these underserved populations have unique needs that, with a little bit of technological investment and creativity and kind of understanding and empathy, we can serve those needs, creating new market opportunity for us go deep in a niche differentiate, create loyalty, do it efficiently now, because it's not about brick and mortar, it's about digital proposition. Um and and make a difference in the world, because there are people who need says to a credit card or checking account or, you know, they need to get a credit card in order to get an apartment. Right Um, have their they need to check acount of their paycheck deposited. I mean they're just historically, you know, students that are coming to study abroad or immigrant Labor that's coming here haven't been able to even access that. So, but are they a lower risk no, not if we think more creatively, and that's where I see such tremendous opportunity looking ahead. It's it's just it's taking time to critically think about what are those opportunities, but more so it's like where are the big problems? What what are the common people patterns causing common people pain, so that we can then put together prescriptions that resolve those. Back to your CVS example, like that's that's it's almost taking a healthcare approach and not just thinking about product first, but problem first, and then we verse engineering it back here. I do want to come back to something that you shared before about the inclusiveness of it, because I do see that there is an inclusive opportunity to co create with the market now because of, you know, exponential technologies like digital and being able to build communities. Joe POLITICI has written prolifically about this through his content INC model. Joe Talks about building an audience first and I agree with that, but I like to take that thinking even further. Don't just build the audience, because audience is still like a one way communication platform. I'm like no, no, no, build a community first and then co create with the community and that's a multi year investment in some cases to build the community, because when you build that community, you're you're gonna be a part of that community from the very beginning, versus trying to enter into the community as a as a, as an objective third party. Now let's take some of this thinking internally because, as you mentioned before, it's the inclusiveness of inviting others to be part of the experience, to learn together, which there is one of those four seasons for exponential growth. And I can tell you historically, and I I apologize for my sins today for taking the wrong approach, but once again, you just don't know what you don't know until you know it. Like I was doing training and coaching with marketing teams to begin with. Well, that was great. Marketing teams would get excited, they'd go forward and they're like trying to bring the stinking within the organization. AH, why? Because people cannot see what they now see. And so this is one of the reasons that we're taking marketing and sales teams or marketing, sales and leadership teams, and even inviting compliance and, you know, other key stakeholders into the conversation to learn and grow together over the course of a year because they see different. Yes, they think different, yes, but just because you think different doesn't mean that you're going to transform your behavior, your actions, your habits. Going word to bridge the gap between the thinking and the doing.

It requires the feelings and the emotions that we were talking about before. So let's I want to really dig into this here, thinking about cultural transformation through through, through the Lens of purpose, in your own experience, what role the training play to not just help people see different, I think different, but I think, most importantly, feel different about the path forward. Training is such a odd word and you know the way most people are learning things today as they go on Youtube, they search for how to, how to, and I think for employees, teammates, Um really first for them to create an unbelievable sense of empathy with the customer, to understand what is it that customer is trying to figure out? How To? What's the customers unmet need? As you said, what is the UNMET NEED? But that customer has what's causing their financial stress? Where are they confused? Where do they need help? And then giving employees the opportunity to help figure out. Okay, what do they know or what do they need to know to be able to help answer those questions or meet those unmet needs? And is it a training issue? Is a product issue? Is it a policy issue? Is An empowerment issue? Probably a combination, because you can train people on what you want them to do, it may or may not meet the need of that customer that has an unmet need. So I think training goes both ways. Is Um it's it's helping the employee understand what it is you're trying to accomplish, asking the employee what they need to be able to do that, giving them some training to the extent that you have that information, but also giving them the tools, the permission, etcetera, that may not exist today so the employee can do what they need to do. Training, to me has always historically been this like top down, we will show you what you should do, and I think it needs to be this co creation shared goal of product and risk and policy and operations, shoulder to shoulder with the customer in front of you and saying, collectively, how do we change our organization or changing the way we operate in order to empower the frontline implanted to deliver what the customer needs. That's a great point on top down versus more of a holistic view. I'm thinking about the concepts of open strategy here. You know, we talk a lot about open banking, but then there's the principles of open strategy Um in in this whole discussion that we're having here on and I'm just calling it training to, you know, fit this somewhere within the mind. But I think it's more deep than that. I think there's the training, there's the coaching aspect, because if you're if you're telling people from on high, well, this is what you should do, this is how you should think, this is how you should feel. My kids, like I think my kids, there's there's they're so resistant to that. That's basic human behavior. Like no one wants to be told what to do, what to think, yet alone how to feel like that's bad. But I've been doing so much studying over the last really three or four years, a pre pandemic Um, going back reading some of the ancient writings of the Romans, the Greeks, the stoics and you know I mentioned socrates before. But there's the socratic methodology of you know, we introduce an idea into a group and maybe provide a little bit of context and perspective, but it's through the questioning that that is where the learning really happens, because it's through the questioning that people begin. Two to you what you said before. Take ownership of whatever the subject matter might be, versus it being shoved from an organizational level to a team level, from a team to the individual, and there's gonna be so much resistance. It's almost like you have to transform the individual to transform the team, transform the team to transform the organization. And when you transform that Org that's where you continue to put the transformation of people that you're serving as a financial brand or Fintech at the center of all of your thinking and doing. Now, my my my thought here, though, is change in transformation, no matter what it is. You know what holds us back? I've I've talked about these before. It's the three fears. It's unknown, it's changed, its failure. But you're having a conversation with with Chuck, and I'm glad you all leaned into this and and I want to kind of bring this full circle and as as we wrap up this conversation, it's been a great one. So thank you for your your thoughts and perspective. But...

...maybe maybe there's that fourth fear, which is the fear of success that holds us back from achieving our exponential growth potential as individuals, as teams, as organizations. And the poem that you noted with Chuck, the one that both of you had on a wall, really resonated with me. I've never heard it before. It's called it's it's called our greatest fear. Yeah, Mary, Maryan Williamson, it's our greatest fear. Would you mind sharing a little bit of this poem? Because when you read this on the cool change podcast with Chuck, I'm like, man, that it hit me right here in my heart, because I do think it's sometimes we fear our our potential, we fear our success, and that holds us back, maybe even more than the fear of the unknown, change and failure. Yeah, it's a it's a really powerful quote. I don't and I'm terrible at memorizing, so I don't know what off the top of my head, but but the whole, the whole idea is, you know, we often tell ourselves, well, who am I to be the one who brings this big, crazy idea into the room? Who Am I to lead an organization? Who Am I to, you know, be in charge? And the quote is really, who are you? Not Too? You are not. You are doing the world a disservice by not playing big, by not being bold, by not living up to your greatest potential to make others comfortable, because you know you want to, you want to shrink, to make others more comfortable, rather than being bold and pushing people forward. And it's really inspiring to say go out there and play hard, don't hold back, Um, you know, leave it all on the field, and when you do, people will people will follow and and you'll encourage other people to play large and it becomes this momentum that enables, you know, all those people around you to to do the same and and not and not try to shrink. So it's it's a pretty powerful, pretty powerful poem. Yeah, I haven't pulled up here and I do want to read a couple of lines just for a minute for the dear listener, for context. But I can't help but think of digital stoicism here and something that I'm writing about in and banking on change, and one of those stoic philosophies was Memento Mori which is Latin for remember your death, and I spend a tremendous amount of time reflecting on my death, not from a morbid perspective. In fact, in my mind I'm going to live to be a hundred and fifty eight years old, so I still have a hundred eighteen years left to keep doing what I'm doing, because it is also thought and cerebral. As long as my mind is healthy and my body is somewhat capable, there's a tremendous amount of value that I have to share and give to the world at large. But I do think when we reflect on our death for a minute, that puts things into perspective and it's a it's a great daily habit, weekly habit, mouth, whatever it is. To just think about. It's like, am I living up to my full potential? Or is the greatest fear, which here, here are a couple of lines from the poem. Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light and at our darkness that frightens us most. We ask ourselves, who am I? Back to your point of what you were sharying who am I to be? Brilliant, gorgeous, handsome, talented and fabulous. Actually, who are you not to be? You're a child of God. You're playing small. Does that serve the world? There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. I think this idea of shrinking and contraction is something that we really need to give a lot of consideration too through our work in financial services, particularly over the next decade when things are going to feel confusing and chaotic, because when things feel that way, we do tend to shrink and go within, we do tend to contract. So we're going to have to fight that natural instinct to go within, to continue to grow outward. And when we have that, like confidence internally, as an individual, as a team, as an organization. I'm telling you, confidence is contagious and it will continue to spread out to your account holders, into the communities that you serve. What's your take on that? Absolutely, and I think you know we as bankers, typically are risk managers. Risk managers typically like to have more of a...

...herd mentality. Don't stick your neck out, don't don't go too far outside the box, you know, do what others are doing and follow and I think we need more financial institutions that are sticking their neck out for what is right for customers who have needs that are unmet, for opportunities to make a difference in the world and to play a bigger, bolder game. Um, and I'm not saying we should risk, you know, an institution. We shouldn't risk our customers money, but we can take some risk in serving populations that need to be served or employing employees who aren't the traditional background, or by listening in ways that we've never listened before and admitting we don't have all the answers and in enrolling others to help us come up with those answers. And I think that that mentality can totally transform organizations and maybe even an industry. Yeah, this that idea of courage and highly recommend to the dear listener if they've not read the works of burn a brown on this subject. And I want to wrap up here, get really practical and thank you for the wisdom and the knowledge that you have shared and have imparted with all of us today. But as we look ahead towards the future, creating the future that is bigger, better and brighter than what we have in the present moment. It's about being even better, it's about being even greater. What is one thing that the dear listener can do to to bring purpose, to make poor purpose the forefront of their mind? That guides they're thinking, that guides they're doing, that really informs their being even so that they can navigate some of the complexities that that experience exponential changes bring to to all of us. You know, I'll get super practical. Go listen to calls in the call center. Go listen to calls in the call center on, you know, fift and the last day of the month, and hear the stress in those customers voices here, the questions that they're asking here, how on the edge they are with their finances. Talk to the small business owner when they're worried about making payroll. Talk to a small business owner who cannot get their arms around the paperwork to fill out a stink and loan to get the cash to buy the equipment for the deal it's already sold. Spend time with the customer to hear what the stresses are in order to uncover what is the role you and your organization can play to meet those needs, and I would say the same thing goes to your real relationships. Listen what's on their mind, ask them how, how people are doing. Listen and find purpose in bringing a intentional energy to how your help, how a you're making other people feel. You are you really making them feel heard and understood? Where are you trying to be smart and be and be heard yourself and have all the answers and you know? And if we can shift from tellers to listeners, Um, from from doers to beers, we could find lots of opportunities to riginal lives of ourselves and the people around us. Wow, like you just hit something for me, because we do, we the front line. They are banked tellers and we transform that into being a just a listener the good that we can do, because it's all about going all in on people, asking good questions, listening to what they share, but also learning through observation, because it's sometimes what people they don't share, it's more of their actions that sometimes do speak louder than words. This is this has been great. I like that. Listen, listen internally, listen externally, and speaking about listening. This has been a good conversation. What is some way, what is the best way that someone can connect with you to continue the discussion we started today? Well, you mentioned a cool change podcast. My husband has a podcast called cool change with Chuck Allen, and there's a podcast with me. There a lot of other really good ones on the intentionality and purpose and Um and being versus doing. And then you can always reach out to me first name, last name at Gmail Dot Com. So that's reala R I L L A D E L O R I e R at Gmail Dot Com and love to talk to anybody. If anyone ask questions, great to chat with you again. Connect with La. Check out the podcast with chuck. You've got a lot of great episodes over there. Learn from Rela, grow with Rela. It is always great to share time with you. So thanks so much for...

...joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. I appreciate it. Until next time and, as always, be well, do good, make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay. To get even more practical and proven insights, along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growth dot com slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs. Until next time, be well and do good.

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