Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 4 months ago

109) #ExponentialInsights: Predicting FinTech & Strategies to Stay Relevant


With all the emerging FinTech, it’s important to reflect on what is currently working in the industry to predict where the space is headed next. Only then can an organization restructure itself to welcome the new technologies.

Alex Sion, Managing Director, Head of Venture Incubation, Global Consumer, Citi Ventures at Citi, joins the show to discuss his experience with the finance industry and preparation strategies for emerging growth.

What we talked about:

- Alex’s Journey and Transforming Banking

- Reflecting on the Financial Industry to Move Forward

- Trends, Patterns, & Purpose of D10X

- Roadblocks within Emerging Growth to be Aware Of

- Jobs to be Done Theory Explained

- The Opportunities of the “Intrepreneurship”

- FinTech VS. The Incumbents

- Recommendations for Risk Aversion & Personal Growth to the Dear Listener

Check out this resource we mentioned during the podcast:

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Banking On Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.  

...within the terms of future growth andthe dynamics that are changing. I think it's absolutely essential to bespending a good amount of time reflecting on that. Mhm. Yeah, You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings andhello I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 109th episode of theBanking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Alex See onto theshow, Alex is the global consumer banking lead for the D 10 X programwhich incubates new products and businesses designed to generate neworganic growth for city. Before joining Citi Ventures, Alex was the Generalmanager of Mobile for jpmorgan Chase. In addition to co founding, moving theworld's first neo bank in 2012, Alex brings a tremendous amount ofexperience and insight around innovation and banking, which isexactly what we're going to talk about today, to educate, to empower toelevate you the dear listener as you continue to move forward and makeprogress along your own digital growth journey. Welcome to the show, AlexJames, thank you for having me before we get into it. What are you excitedabout right now, personally or professionally, in this this new worldthat we're navigating through together. I am excited in, you know, I think thefintech world coming out of Covid and the pandemic period has reallyaccelerated beyond anybody's estimations, so if you kind of rememberWhen when the pandemic 1st started, there are a lot of boardrooms in thebanking universe that had assembled with the assumption that the Fintechkind of phenomenon was going to go by the wayside and that it was a greatopportunity, frankly too large incumbents to to harvest, you know,kind of the roadkill right from the Fintech highway. So there was a lot ofboardrooms that were kind of preparing capital and plans to basically do justthat. And as we all know that that didn't happen like not by a long shotand many of the underlying trends that we're kind of behind the phenomenonthat we know it's Syntex just accelerated beyond anybody's estimation.So I'm really excited that, you know, the kind of the vision of the worldthat I believed in, Why did I believed... for decade plus, it's really comingto fruition now, which I think creates just enormous opportunities, you know,pretty much everywhere throughout them, all the finance. So I think it's areally exciting time to be engaged in the space. Well, you speak about, youknow, this belief that you've held for a decade plus and all of theopportunities before we dive into some of those innovation opportunitiesavailable financial for financial brands to either create or to capture.I want to, I want to go back in time with you is As as you've had a veryinteresting journey along the way, are passive cross indirectly when you wereco founding moving with Brett King 10 years ago in in 2012. And and it wasthat movement started by moving as well as simple 10 years ago that reallyhelped spur on this beginning of innovation in the banking space in theFintech space that's continued to Increasing speed over the last decade,even really more of the last 15, 18 months, thanks to COVID. So when youthink about just this past decade, where you've been this journey, whathas been the biggest progress that you've seen in regards to innovationwhen you reflect back at the macro level? Yeah, no, that's a greatquestion. James. So, and I've been doing a lot of reflection day just toget my head around, you know, where the world is heading next. But I think itall started when when wet and I kind of began the moving journey. The catalystreally was the, the iphone, right? You know, the, the introduction of theiphone um as well as kind of what was going on in social and what wasemerging in payments and digital payments at the time. And we saw thecombo of the three really starting to coalesce In kind of that 2007, kind oftime playing like the colonels were kind of laid back then. And at thatpoint, what we saw was kind of an inevitable journey like where, you know,the things that were happening with the mobile devices and the advancementsthere would inevitably plus kind of social and what that did to behaviorslike relative to digital and then what was happening kind of in the paymentswill, which actually was going back decades and decades. Kind of theadvancement of digital payments. We saw kind of a world emerging where all ofthese things would inevitably combined and what that would do it was is thatit would fundamentally re architect the nature of, Of commerce right in general.And we tied sort of commerce back to essentially banking and money. And itstruck both of us at the time that this kind of inevitable path that we kind ofsaw happening even in 2008 would essentially break the bunking modellike, you know, famously according the term of breaking banks in his, his kindof own show, but that really was the kind of the thesis was that where theworld heading with the social behaviors,...

...these technology that was kind of underenabling things would render the banking model as we knew it in almostevery way you can think of as insufficient to kind of support the theneeds of commerce, which which is what banking was founded to do in some ways.So we, we saw, you know, what I guess I'd say is that summarizing is that Ithink that it's really the event was 2008, right? Like you know, and it wasreally just this, you know, to me, to me I'm almost like a predictable pastthat has had infection points along the way. But it hasn't really been anysurprising things. I would say maybe the advent of digital currencies, whichwe kind of thought about a little bit like it was kind of a key kind ofunexpected, you know, kind of black swan and when everything that couldreally kind of change everything eventually. But, but I don't know ifwe've really been surprised by anything other than maybe the speed and thecapital right now sitting upon it. I've gone through over the past decade or sovarious iterations on whether or not I think Syntex win will win, orincumbents will win or end up being partnership models. I think that'sanother area where I I'm still thinking a lot about whether the jury is stillout on that and it slipped my opinion a couple times over the past couple ofyears. But but I actually think that nothing has really been that surprising.It's really nearly 2000 and we just got to kind of look, look out and see wherethe ball's inevitably get along too right. And you you said a couple of keypoints that I want to dive deeper on just from a personal perspective,because you mentioned that you've been doing a lot of reflection, You've beendoing a lot of thinking how important is it at a we'll just call it a aleadership level out of financial brand to create that space and time to breakfree from the doing of whatever it is. Because I think if you get stuck indoing when it comes to innovation, that's a very dangerous place to bebecause otherwise, you've got a wave of transformation and change happening atan environmental level, happening at a cultural level of society level.Technology level all coming up behind you. How important is it to create thatspace and time to just stop to pause to review, to reflect, to learn to thinkso that you can do even better going forward. And how do you apply that justwithin your own personal methodologies here? Yeah, no, I I think it'sfundamentally critical like and I think you really starts with reflecting andreally coming to terms with the idea of future growth and what it will take tocontinue to sustainably grow. I actually don't even like the wordinnovation much these days. I would rather kind of use the word of emerginggrowth of future growth is a better way to think about it. So I think everyexecutive task disband, I mean they're...

...the charter is to continuously drivedrive growth like for their organization and in pursuit of that.You've got to be coming to the recognition these days that that theold tricks of how you grew are diminishing returns and that there arethin tex out there who are essentially running new new tricks and and at thispoint you've got to come down to that, you know capitulation that ain't thesesome of these new tricks are working all right, the fundamentally working.And if you just reflect spend time reflecting on that not within thecontext of new ideas or you know what I call the shiny trinkets mode ofinnovation, the you know idea generation but think of it verypractically within the terms of future growth and the dynamics that arechanging. I think it's absolutely essential to be spending a good amountof time reflecting on that. And then to the second part of your questionorganizationally, I think that what that does is if you think about theworld in that way that kind of like old group playbooks and new growthplaybooks, you will inevitably come to the recognition that that those newgrowth playbooks are counterintuitive, like the math doesn't work upon how youthink about the world today, like the business cases won't add up and sotherefore you by your organization of design in your DNA are almostinevitably going to reject, oh leave growth strategies. You know, you'vealmost got a fundamentally come to terms with that and just say look thatcan't be the answer right? It can't be the answer that we keep exploring theseideas and at the end of the day they just never add up because they'readding up for other people. So you know figure that out and then that usuallyrequires a different organization structure, permission, process,whatever it is, but you can't do it from your existing playing field. Andthat's one of the things that I've been in, the advisory and the coaching workthat I do have been just encouraging so many, like Covid is just a preview.It's just a preview. It's the warm up of what is to come and to really usethis experience as a way to just get comfortable feeling uncomfortablebecause what's going to happen over the next 5 to 10 years because if we goback, I think 2008, it's a great time period because like you said, Thelaunch of the iPhone, the rise of social media, you know, YouTube comingonline. I think back to whenever I got into this space, it was 2001 2002 andbuilt uh almost essentially early social network called Bear Swamp, whichwas at Baylor University. And it was a way to bypass the bookstore that wasripping students off at the time. And so we connected students with studentsto do some type of commerce exchange.

And we were going to take that andlicense it and bring it to other universities. And then a guy by thename of Mark Zuckerberg had a much bigger vision of connecting peopleonline and we were just looking at a small microcosm of it. But it was agreat learning experience. And so when we leap ahead to the present moment andthe work that you're doing as head of venture incubation through the work ofD 10 Acts, what's the purpose of D 10 X and and what will be some of the trendsand patterns that you're seeing through that work that you're doing right nowas a team when it comes to. And I like that. It's not just innovation, it'sreally about growth at the end of the day. Yeah. And I think that is theevolution of that I've seen in my climate city with D 10 X is when Ifirst kind of arrived at city, there was there was an emphasis on culturechange in ideation, right? Like, you know, as kind of the crux of innovationand what I've seen is that more very much into what I would call theemerging growth strategy, right? Looking very being very aligned withthe business in their growth objectives and focused on exactly the same metricsand targets that they're focused on. But looking at it from what we call,you know, this challenger lens, you know, their business kind of partneringvery closely with the business to essentially run parallel almost a Btesting of different ways to go about, quote, right? So, you know, everybodywants to grow and as a target of growing by X percent, it's just likehow would you do it? And then how would how would we do it if you can. X. And,and often that creative tension with, you know, thinking about growth andsegments and, and marketing and value propositions very differently. You know,more like an unencumbered startup, I think challenges and raises the timefor everybody. So what we're doing these days is spending a lot of timedeeply embedded and partnered with the business in their growth strategypursuits and then really kind of using essentially a different frame ofreference, the Challenger frames of reference and some of the methodologythat you would use in the start up world to essentially be risk highpotential growth concepts in a different way. We're just applyingthose principles to the growth objectives that city is alreadypursuing and I think it's been a great kind of great partnership and reallydone wonders for the you mentioned the startup world, which in my mind justimmediately jumps to more of an agile like methodology. Learning fromexperiences applying those new new insights going forward and essentiallytaking what we call the four digital growth operating environments of youcan be learning, you can be thinking, you can be doing, you can be reviewingand the fastest you can cycle through each one of those environments, thefaster that growth will happen. And when you think about the idea ofemerging growth strategy, I'm curious... gain your perspective and insightfor the dear listener what holds people back from really leaning into emerginggrowth? What are those roadblocks to be aware of in the mind? More so thananything? I think? Yeah, I think a lot of it, I've spent a lot of timereflecting on the fundamental business construct of terms that are haveidentified a clear profitability model and it's been working for the pastcentury plus, Right? And what that essentially does is it kind of hardwiring this great strategy path to the point at which it can be and rightly so,incredibly efficient and mechanical, right and prescribes. And that's not abad thing, Like it's not a bad thing. But at the same point in time, I feellike what's happened in digital is that it is upended some of the laws, youknow, kind of the laws of physics, like my my boss, Vanessa Colella, the headof innovation for city often talks about the difference betweentheoretical physics and applied physics. Like uh and and wants us to be muchmore in the applied physics land. And so we've got this thesis, the pin textgot these faces. But essentially the rules of physics for the bankingbusiness model have changed and therefore, you know, you can talk aboutit all day long like in that theoretical zone. But how do youactually get out there and then basically challenges fundamentalnotions of what is the right segment to go after? What is the right businessmodel? How do you monetize like the customer relationship in very differentways. Again, in ways that will see like to the banking business models lostlead very risky, operationally prohibitive. Right? But you but yougotta get out there. And so I think that the only way to do that is to isto be out there, right? um because the cost of entry gets incredibly moreexpensive, right? As these texts get more legs under them, because a lot ofmoney to buy into a new paradigm, once it's already set, technology hastransformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for andbuy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all, but yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financialbrand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robertwrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digitalgrowth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of hisbest selling book banking on digital...

...growth Or order a copy right now foryou and your team from Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketingmanifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed fullof practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show and whenyou're talking about profitability models and almost disrupting yourself,I can't help but think of the story of netflix and how netflix they had. Youknow, going against Blockbuster, they tried to for an acquisition withBlockbuster that was denied. So then they went direct to market and builtthat up and then they took their DVD model and then transform that intostreaming and then streaming and now they're really a production house. Andso it's this continuous evolution and and when I think about new revenuemodels to I think about the work that joe policy has done has been a guest onthe show. He was the founder of the Content Marketing Institute and he hasthis whole philosophy of content ink and how content can fuel thesedifferent business models. So I think there's a lot of of ways of justrethinking how we generate revenue by creating value for account holders andthat opens up whole new possibilities. But it does come down to that one wordof practicality applying this that actually creates, it's not just sotheoretical and you noted previously almost like an A. B. Testingmethodology and you've written about this when you think about running thesekind of two parallel business models, these patterns when we're thinkingabout this. One of the things that you noted in this article was somethingthat I'm and I'm grateful to see this, I'm hearing more and I would say it'sprobably on the fin tech side of things. But what Clayton Christensen writesabout, which is this theory of jobs to be done because it's such a new idea inthis space. Could you just unpack briefly at a high level of what ourjobs to be done and what value can they create when thinking about these newprofitability and revenue models for emerging growth? Yeah, well, the way Ithink about jobs as a product person, product entrepreneur is what I'd sayvery different than the way I try to articulate jobs to kind of sea levelstakeholders who are allocating capital. Right? So let me try to take, let metry to explain the first part like that product octagonal jobs is prettystraightforward in that it is really what is the fundamental valueproposition that you are delivering to the customers, like what are youhelping them to accomplish? Not the service you offer, but essentially thesolution, the problem that they are trying to solve and really kind ofdeeply to understand that. So for products and services, that sounds likevery, very simple, straightforward language, but where it gets complex forlarge incumbent organizations is that...

...that can be extolled at the, you know,kind of at the product level, the US level all day long, people will agree,but it's that it's the construct above it. And we were just talking about likethe capital allocation, how the C. Level people think and how they processit. What I would change when I'm talking to them. What I try to talkabout is the fact that behavior change in technology areopening up these essentially different playbooks, right? That that will feelillogical and just kind of grant yourself that they are logical, likeyou'll never make the business case work in your head. But if you canrecognize and at least reconcile the volatility right? And just admit toyourself that it's a volatile time, then what I like to say to C levelexecutives is how would you if your assets allocating assets like your jobis to allocate growth capital right across the business in the appropriateways, how much capital have you allocated towards this new playbook?Volatility fundamentally. How much like what's the dollar amount? And Iguarantee you if they went through the math that they would find is thereprobably it's de Minimus right? It's not a relevant level of allocation.Given or appropriate level of allocation, given the volatility, giventhe risk that this voluntary represents. So it really is, it kind of elevatesthe conversation and say, look, you don't have to buy what I'm saying interms of jobs or kind of admit to yourself that you're not customercentric or whatever creates all these problems, but you can at least, youknow, kind of admit that as a capital allocator, right? And a growth capitalallocator that you are under hedged? Yes, right? Like you are under hedged,and if you can do that, then you can at least set aside this appropriate riskrising investment to explore What then will become jobs right at the end ofthe day, you know, so I think it's two different ways to explain it on theproduct level, it's pretty straightforward, but the more complexone that I think is really the hardest thing for the industry get is thatother side, Yeah. And you've touched on this idea, you mentioned the wordentrepreneurship earlier, My mind then goes to the other side of the spectrumof what are the opportunities, if any, from an entrepreneurship when it comesto looking at emerging growth? Because when you think about entrepreneurship,it's looking for opportunities putting people at the center of all of yourthinking, all of your doing human centered design, human centered growthfor example. But what are the opportunities for, let's just call itentrepreneurship to bring that capability into a financial brand, tospur further emerging growth opportunities here. I think it'sessential to organic growth, right?...

Like so if you're frankly you're at aat a place now in banking where, you know, J. P. Morgan Chase today justacquired another finn tack in the DSG space right? Like there's there aregonna be more acquisitions happening in right? And it organically to pivotbusiness models. The problem with inorganic growth is that it's expensive,especially when you have no kind of inhibitors to scale and you've got such,you know, kind of intensity on the private and adventure market side,beating up prices. It's expensive, it's going to be expensive way for them tocome back to turn around. So to your point, entrepreneurship becomes themessential, right? Like you've got to be, you know, organic growth is the bestway to do it. It's the cheapest way to do it. And then what do you need forthat? Like we need to kind of unplug people from the matrix. You need tokind of have that, you know, ability to kind of have people inside who franklyare best positions to understand both the business model and the growthobjectives and the strategy of the firm and the customer is all those things.If you can you can do the work to provide them with the lane to play adifferent way and to think a different way. I actually think that's the mostefficient way to drive transformation. But it's hard, it's hard. I'm nottrivializing that path, but I do think if you just kind of stay back and justlook at it from a pure she global economics perspective, you would ratherdo that than to uh, you know, to enter to organically do it correct? And as asyou're talking about this idea of organic growth, I want to play for amoment and I've had this conversation twice this week alone with Fintechsince a couple of them are actually just trying to get started up and I'm aFintech. Let's just assume I'm a Fintech and I have two choices. I cango direct to market B two C or I could go B two B, two C. And then look tobring my capability into an incumbent financial brand and probably get fasterscale because the incumbent has the eyeballs, they have the audience. Butthen the Fintech has the capabilities and the technologies. What are theopportunities there? Because you mentioned this to begin ourconversation of, is it going to be the fintech that wins? Is it gonna be theincumbents or is it gonna be a blended world of two? Where's your thinkinghere? Right now? At this point in time with, with with the right to to changeyour mind? Yeah. James, it's a great question and I had over the over thedecade, no less than three conversions on this thesis, like, like uh along theway. And I to be honest, like, so would I not anticipate, you know, forget, andI anticipate cut early on in the movement days, some of it was theextent of how quickly and how massively...

...the private markets would embrace thintag. I mean, we kind of all knew that it was such a massive space and it wasjust a matter of time, like when we were trying to raise money for movingin the early days, people don't even know what we're talking about. Like itwasn't, there wasn't the word sent back to describe it right? Or much less thebenchmarking tables on Fintech fundraisers. But I had, it continues toblow my mind the amount of private capital being driven into this space.So that's kind of one factor that I look at an o'clock relatives who canwin. But I think it's difficult to argue now to say that insect that hasachieved some kind of differentiation in the market does not have the accessto capital to go against the biggest companies in the world. I think thatthat's definitely, you know, they're now right. It maybe wasn't at a pointin time when I had slipped on the other side. The other thing is really theconsumer behaviours, right? So I clocked out a lot and obviously moneyis a very sensitive topic and, and trust is a huge part of it. Absolutely,you know, and there's so, so much ingrained in human behaviors, so it'sthat bet on human behaviors and how far will they really index? And again, likethere have been points in time where I was just like, it's maybe not going togo as far as as Bitcoin wanted to go right, you know, but I've been provenwrong on that, right? And I feel like now that's another in a dynamic right,where the consumer behaviors are continuing to go further than I hadanticipated in the world of money, like than I ever thought it could the lastbit, which is really kind of that, I think the biggest X factor of all isgovernments, like, and, you know, the non financial players who have theability from governments to the retailers to the Congress players, ifthey don't want to play right, they can shut this all down, they can they canfigure out a way to shut it all down. And again, that's an area where I wasmore cynical in the past, and I really didn't event, you know, I thought theywere like, you know, some of the large retailers would end up reinforcing someof the old relationships with banks, maybe that would shut the system down,some of the government's would step in and shut things down, but that's nothappening either, right? Um, and I, and again I continue to be, you know,amazed by the deals, right? Like that some of these early stage context,private companies are able to strike with massive commerce players, right?And um that just they rival, you know, they exceed those of what large, forexample super regionals in the U. S. Could achieve, for example, like that'sjust the stuff that I would never thought would have happened and it'shappening. So I guess that's a long...

...winded web saying, I do feel like it'sit's we're now at another place where it's anybody's guess correct. Um And itmight even be leaning towards a greater sense of urgency incumbents to reallyreally really take this seriously now. Well, you know, you you've touched onthis a couple of times in our conversation this idea of digitalcurrency Bitcoin, crypto. The way that I look at this like in 2021 Is almostwhere the Internet was in 1996, There's a couple of like Good Morning Americastyle shows where they were making fun of email and what is email and how doesit all work that you can find on Youtube. And I'm almost like that'swhere we're at right now with crypto and digital currency. And I understandlike that's creating a lot of angst and anxiety at the leadership level becausethat really is where things are going to get transformed. I mean NCR just didthat deal with and I forgot who the brand was but it's a it's a gas stationsomewhere like on the east coast so that you can pay in Bitcoin. And whenyou think about all of this change happening in the speed of changechanges, hard changes, scary. Change is painful when it comes to a just being afinancial brand leader. What are your recommendations to others? To the dearlisteners so that they can just deal and overcome some of this change inthis risk aversion so that it does not become an expense or cost going forwardinto the future. Yeah. Yeah. I really think the conversations that need to behappening needs to kind of go in some ways need to take a step back and awayfrom what I'll call product level conversations like so so top, stoptalking about feature function. Stop talking about customers interest citystop talking about widgets. Yes. And then now elevate the conversation andtalk about strategic risk and capital allocation. Right. Right. And how youare investing, you know the capital of the firm talk about that and if youkind of like if you just raise it up to that level, and it becomes a rationaldiscussion on the dynamics of volatility when I was mentioning before,and at the end of the day, it's very difficult to conclude that there was norisk out there, you'd be crazy, like, and then then you can price that risk,right? Like that's what banks do, like that's what financial services firms do.And if we price that risk appropriately, then it becomes something we know howto do, right, It's mechanical and so if we can do that, and then you get to theconversation on features, functions and blah, blah, blah, or frankly, don'tdon't, you know, just make out take the capital and just and just set thestrategy going. But I do feel like maybe we've been focused too long onthe wrong thing, which is kind of the,...

...the widgets, the feature is thecustomer and we've convinced ourselves that this is not a big deal that we cancopy, you know, kind of what's going out there and react fast enough. Andwe're missing really the whole point, which is this is the business model.It's this it's this kind of like the page that they're operating from. It'sjust different, making decisions day in and day out very differently than wemake them within large banks. And we have to come to terms with that. Yes.And and that's where, you know, I think about what what I call and I wroteabout this in the book, banking on digital growth. But you have what Ihave have coined the purpose statement pyramid at the foundation of that isthe what this is what we do. And you mentioned there's a lot at the productlevel that there's a lot of R and D. And and it's not research anddevelopment, it's ripping off and duplicating what others are doing. Thenyou have the level next level up. It's the how, it's it's the experience thatyou bring to bear through the what, then it's the who getting really clearof who are you creating this value for. And then at the pinnacle it's and I seea lot of Fintech probably thinking about this more than anything. It's thewhy, it's why are we doing this and tapping into that? And then letting,inform the why, letting the why inform the who, then the how and thenultimately the what and then it trickles down all the way from that,that higher order thinking or the higher level of of purpose. This hasbeen a fantastic conversation Alex and and and I'm grateful for all of theknowledge, the insights that you've shared with, the dear listener heretoday. As we wrap things up, you talk about practicality and I always like toend on a very practical note. What is one practical recommendation when itcomes to? And we're not going to use the word innovation back to your point,we're going to use the word growth or emerging growth. How can they capturesome emerging growth starting small because all change. All transformationbegins with a small, simple step, a small action, a small commitment. Whatwould be that small action, that small commitment that you would recommendthat they could take going forward on their own journeys of growth here today?Yeah, I I would actually, the practical stuff I recommend is have your financeteam do the analysis on that allocation of growth investment capital andidentify the numbers that you truly believe is being spent on emerginggrowth, like at a hedge, yep, right to that risk, you know, identify thatnumber, walk around when you identify the number, make sure the board knowsthat number, like raise it to that level, that that should be a knownnumber, you know, I don't at all kind of the sea levels of any bankrestitution out there. To me that's a very practical first step is do thefinancial work to identify how your allocated relative to your growthinvestors. Absolutely, well, Alex, thank you so much for all of theknowledge today, if anyone wants to just connect with you to say hello,what's the best way for them to reach...

...out and do that? Sure, absolutely. Youcan reach me at city Alex dot S I O N at city dot com. Excellent, excellent.Reach out to Alex say hello, thank him for all of the knowledge that youshared today and thank you Alex once again for joining me on another episodeof banking on digital growth. This has been great man, awesome. Thanks. Jamesappreciate it as always and until next time be well. Do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on digital growth with James robert, ley like what youhear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts,google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to geteven more practical improvement insights visit www dot digital growthdot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best selling book banking ondigital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazoninside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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