Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 months ago

231) #ExponentialInsights - Fighting Off Financial Stress with the One-Number Budget


Traditional budget failure is a familiar symptom of the financial stress that burdens 85 percent of Americans. 

But why do so many people struggle with this everyday household income practice? 

John Crane (, Founder of Crane Financial LLC ( and author of The One-Number Budget (, joins us to break down the psychology and common pitfalls behind the traditional budget. 

Join us as we discuss:

- The Moneyball connection in financial planning (4:04)

- Being the “thief” of your own traditional budget (16:34)

- How financial coaching can tie into strengthening budgets (24:40) 

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- The One-Number Budget (

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.  

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

Right now with the inflationary environment, if you're using traditional budgets, they're all wrong. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Readings in Hello, I am James Robert Lay and welcome to episode to thirty one of the banking on digital growth podcast in today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome John Crane to the show. John is an author, financial advice eiser and retirement income planner who has spent two decades providing personalized financial guidance to business professionals, corporate executives medical specialist with a comprehensive planning process to identify each client's unique goals. John also has a brand new book out that I look forward to sharing with you today the dear listener titled the One Number Budget, in which John provides a path forward to reduce the pain, the complexity and the anxiety so many account holders at your financial brand or Fintech feel around traditional budgets. Maybe you even feel the same way about budgets, but John will provide you with a path forward. Welcome to the show, John. It is good to share time with you today, Buddy. Thank you. Good to be here, good to share time with us. It's even better to catch up, because it's been a while since you and I have been able to talk with one another. We are in an executive coaching programs strate teach a coach together, and covid happened and we got separated, and so to use the previous thirty minutes just to catch up. I'm I'm truly grateful for that and very excited about what you have going on in your world, both personally and professionally. Before we talked about your brand new book, the one number budget. What's going well for you personally? Professionally? Your pick? Well, personally, coming off of great summer. My Wife, she works for a ARP and she h after you've been there for seven years, they give you a sabbatical, so she was completely separated for the Office for a month and a half. So being able to enjoy that time with her and see her explored during that time was awesome. And then, Um, you know, professionally, it's been all about getting this book launched and out into the marketplace. Extremely happy and proud of that. Well, let's let's talk about this, this book, because it is a great book. It is super easy to read. I love the title, the one number budget,...

...why traditional budgets fail and what to do about it. I highly recommend every financial brand leader, whether you're to bank, a credit union of Fintech, read this because the insights that you share, John, are transformative and I do believe. Like back to the point of the subtitle, I do believe traditional budgets are failing people, and we're gonna talk about that in a bit. But to begin, why write the book? Why take the time? Um, it was so funny and almost serendipitous that my wife happened to be in the studio as as you were coming on, uh, and I know that y'all had a very interesting conversation. To inspire some action from you, but why write the book and Why now? Sure, Um, so this is my twentieth year in the Financial Services Industry and through those twenty years I noticed there is a gap in the financial services industry. We don't really tend to talk about cash full planning and budgeting all that much. I mean we do in the abstract, but at the end of the day it's really done in the context of, okay, well, we need to get the clients saving on a regular basis and so we need to get them to put five month into uh, some sort of a financial vehicle. Um, and as it relates to the financial vehicle that that the financial services professional manages, like that's where, you know, a lot of the coaching kind of starts and stops, unfortunately. So that was that was one one reason that I wanted to write the book was to provide something to the general public that they could, you know, use and implement, a great tool to be able to have them be able to take it and implement it on their own or with an advisor if they so choose. I think, and we'll talk about that, idea about, you know, implement implementing this thinking alone, with an advisor or maybe even with a peer group of sorts. I connected with, really connected with the story that you open up the book with from moneyball. How does a movie about baseball connect with budgeting? Give us some clarity here. When I started out in the financial services industry, I built this excel spreadsheet that had, you know, the twenty to thirty different budget line items that everybody, you know, thinks about and uh, and I used that spreadsheet for, sadly, fifteen years. And the sadly part is it took me fifteen years to realize that my clients hated that spreadsheet. They would they would fill it out once and then I would never see it again. And if we ever did use it, it was just kind of like we'd fill it in on the fly. It wasn't really, you know, accurate. The movie moneyball is all about, you know, using statistics to choose players, and there's this pivotal scene where Jonah Hill, he plays this you know real, you know strong, heady intellectual, uh he says to the general manager. He's like it's all about grabbing all these statistics about the players and getting things down to a single number, getting it down to one number.

And I said, you know, I guess embarrassingly on my part. Like I've seen that movie probably thirty times. I just it's a film, it really is. And one of the Times I was watching and I was just like, I don't know why, but I was just like I made the connection to budgeting. I was like, what if I could get budgeting down to a single number, so that's all clients really had to worry about. It is it's like okay, in the back of their heads, if they know that they've got basically five thousand dollars, for example, to get through the next four weeks, and if they just keep their spending below that five thousand, then everything works. I was like that that just seems like a much easier way to go, and so that's what spawned. I want to dive into this and and let's just rip the band aid off. Let's get real. Why do traditional budgets fail? You have an entire chapter around the subject, but why? What's the problem with traditional budgets and why do they fail? And I bring this up because through my work as a digital anthropologist within financial services, working with banks, Coaching Banks, coaching credits, coaching fintech's, advising them. I look at there's there's a lot of effort in emphasis placed on financial quote Unquote Literacy, and a lot of them tie back into traditional budgeting practices. But they keep failing people because it's an epidemic. It's not just a financial crisis, it's an epidemic as of Americans are feeling some sort of financial stress. Something is not working and I think you've identified the problem here. It's it's traditional budgets. Yeah, it's UH, the traditional budgets fail people for lots of reasons. The primary reason that I think they fail people is it's it's too much work. You know, you're talking about thirty to forty line items that you have to keep up with every single month and any one of those could end up being an outlier in any given month. So there's the work aspect of it. But then there's a psychological aspect of it. Of You know, you've got somebody that maybe for household stuff, they budget, you know, I don't know, a hundred and fifty dollars a month because that's the average monthly expense based on the last three years. They feel like, okay, that's a good number and then they get into the next month and the dishwasher dies. And so now what was supposed to cost a hundred and fifty cost a thousand and they get to the end of the month and they're and they're negative and it makes them feel bad and so they're just like, you know what, I just this, this stinks. And Right now, with the inflationary environment, like everything, if you're using traditional budgets, they're all wrong, like whatever whatever you set up two months ago, it's all wrong. And so people, they just don't do it. And that's that's from personal experience. So I told the story earlier about my spreadsheet. You know, I handed it to them. They just they just don't want to do it and I get it. And then one of their aspects, which I think is important to note, is this...

...concept of, for lack of a better term, budget shaming. That stuff drives me nuts. You know, you see it mostly from the talking heads on TV waggling the fingers of people. Here are people that you know, they finally overcome the intimidation of actually calling into the show to get some personalized advice, and what do they do? They get yelled at and made to feel stupid. That's not that's not helpful, that's a that's a great point. No, it's not helpful at all. And actually, money shame, financial shame, is real. I think Tammy Lalley has a Ted talk on that subject. But then there was a study done around one out of five people, and I and I don't like talking one out of five people because it's a people, because it's very hard to like quantify that. But if we say one out of five people that you know John, or one out of five people that that the dear listener knows personally is struggling with financial shame, like that's a real thing. It's like, I think if you can think of five names off the top of your head, maybe one out of five is struggling with financial shame. And you're right. It's like, you know, someone works up the courage to confront this crisis only to get shamed back because of their behaviors, because of really their beliefs. And you mentioned the psychological aspect of traditional budgets, which I want to dive a little bit deeper into, because you talk about they make you feel like a failure and then you also talked about they treat you like a child, and I think that idea of continuously being made to feel like a failure. You know, no one's going to want to continue down a path like that. And then we don't want to be, you know, treated like a child. But what about budgeting APPS? I know like that's have been a big thing in the Financial Brand Bank, Credit Union, even the Fintech space, budgeting APPs. How does all of this play into the conversation around why traditional budgets fail and make us feel like a failure? Sure so, just one last thing on the on the parental aspect. When I first got started as an advisor, and even up until today, when I meet a client for the very first time, not all of them, but a lot of them will come and say, well, I had to get my finances in order before I came to see you. That's you know. I know we were introduced two years ago, but I had to get everything all set up before I came to see you. And it always puzzled me because I thought that's why you're hiring me, is to to help you get everything sorted. And it was because they were they were afraid of you know, John The parent. What was I going to think of them if they didn't have their finances looking a certain way? And you know. To be honest, like, I don't think anything like when people come to see like, I'm just here to help. So when people come to me and they say that I was telling you know, please don't wait, just just come in, let's let's tackle it together. To your question about the budgeting APPS, they're kind of the same...

...thing. They're just uh, they've taken some of the tactical work out of it, but a lot of the APPS, you know, you set them up to talk directly to the bank, the credit cards and all that stuff. You get it all set up perfectly and then you know, some of the categories change or maybe some of your spending has changed, and so if you're not constantly keeping up with it, it doesn't it doesn't really work. A lot of the things that I share about traditional budgeting, especially from a psychological standpoint, they translate to the technology solution. It's just easier to compile the data, but all the underlying psychological stuff is still there and I think that's where, you know the the last point that you make in in chapter two, which is you know why all of these traditional budgets have failed us so far and why we continue to feel like a failure and I want to make this point. If of Americans are feeling financial stress, how many of our internal team members at our bank, at our credit union, at our Fintech feel the exact same way? And then there's a bit of imposter syndrome of like, I work in this industry but I feel like a failure because I just can't get it together. It's the connection between a person's financial well being and their physical well being and and you shared an anecdotal story here about when you hit your thirties, um and like. Why traditional budgets fail is they put savings last and that's a dangerous place to be. What's the connection here within your just your own personal journey of health and awareness? I think back to your point. People try to get it's almost like you try to get in shape before you go see the doctor, but it's the doctor that can provide the clarity into like hey, if you don't make some changes here, you're in for a rude awakening. Another why budgets fail, uh, is the traditional budget really focuses on that particular month, like that's where most of the most of the attention is given, and there's not a lot of thought given to the rest of somebody's life, some of someone's lifetime. And this is where the concept of future self, and I opened that first chapter with the poem, really comes in. Is If you're you put savings last, and let's say it's a thousand dollars that you're you're planning on saving, well then when that dishwasher expense comes in that I was referencing earlier, for a thousand dollars, well, guess, guess which thousand dollars pays for the new dishwasher? It's it's the money that you were setting aside for your future self that gets spent today. As far as a personal anecdote that you shared, Um, yeah, I I went to the doctor, and I've been hearing this for years. Think you know your cholesterol is a little high, and this doctor got real aggressive. He's just like, Hey, your cholesterol, it's crazy, so we're gonna go ahead and put you on the pill. And I was like yeah, cluster, I don't take pills. Like that's real smart you him like yeah, I don't, I don't take medicine.

He Goes, Oh, you don't take medicine. Okay, so he continued with our discussion and then he circles back and he's like hey, Um, do you know that guy in your neighborhood? It's like forty five years old and, you know, really good shape. Everybody likes him. And then one day he just drops dead of a heart attack. And I was like yeah, actually, I've I've been to that funeral. And he looks at me and he goes, yeah, that's you, m m what he is. Yeah, he goes this cholesterol thing that you just waved me off on. He goes that that's where you're headed. He goes, you're you know, overall. You know you're you're athletic, you run a little bit here and there, but the way you're eating, it's killing you. So, you know, either you get ahold of this or it will get ahold of you. I owe it to my wife, I owe it to my daughter to make sure that I'm here. So that was the change right there and then. Digital growth is a journey from good too great, but sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating, overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. VISIT DIGITAL GROWTH DOT com slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show, and I think what what that was, and it's a conversation that we've had a few times, is he told you the truth. And even Audrey and I on the previous episode we were having a conversation about a book called the four agreements Um and the first agreement is to be impeccable with your word. The second agreement is don't take anything personally, and I think it's this idea. You know, when it comes to you know, some of these conversations, you know we got to be open, we must be open to hearing the truth, because otherwise we're gonna make it up ourselves else and and that's where you you mentioned the poem about being a thief. What's your take on this, because I I think you know when you you hear about money and being a thief, you're thinking, oh, that's a bank robber, but when it comes to budgeting, it's a great question. Are you being a thief to your future self and and what does that mean? And like, let's say you have someone, maybe they're thirty five years old and they've had some challenging life circumstances. What does it take to have that type of conversation too? Back to your point, you transformed your behaviors in your habits. Instead of putting exercise last at the end of the day, you shifted your whole perspective to put exercise first, savings first, and a one budget number help with that. But what do you mean by being a thief? And how how can someone who's maybe his thirty five, you know, be able to, you know, transform their their their perspective, their beliefs around the subject? Sure, there's this areas of drawings that are in the book that come from a...

Whiteboard talk that I do when I first meet a client to give people the lifetime perspective. And what I talked about in the book is if we just talk about a lifetime is being ninety years and we divide that into three equal parts, the first thirty, the middle thirty and then the final thirty in the first thirty being childhood, the Middle Thirty being your earning years and then the final thirty being your retirement years and the first thirty years. I used I say this in the book and I just kind of throw it away because I'm like, yeah, you know most of that first thirty years, your parents are paying for most of it, so we'll put that aside. And then we got this middle thirty. That's your engine, like that's where you're earning all of the money that you need to live for sixty years. So to say that again, sixty years of living is coming out of thirty years of earning and that's put's tremendous pre sure on those thirty years. But it's my experience in talking with families before they come to see me that they're not really aware of the amount of pressure that thirty is under because they're in the firefight every day of you know, making the bills and you know, kid wants to join the soccer team and well, we got a vacation coming up and you know, we gotta save for College, and so like they're they're like trying to deal with these things as they're hitting them, but there they don't have the overall perspective of okay, but these thirty years, this money from these thirty years, has to last us for sixty and one of the things that I do, and the it's in the diagram, is I'll I'll draw a line right through the middle there at retirement and I write in big black letters income stops. I'm very intentional about saying it's like at some point you will receive your last paycheck, like after that, aren't, aren't anymore, and it's at that point that your balance sheet is going to take over. And is your balance sheet going to sustain you? Is it going to sustain you at the level that you're, you know, than accustomed to? And like I think, from my vantage point, like this cash flow discussion, that cash flow management is the dominant determinant as to whether or not someone's going to have a good, good financial life. And you know, going back to your first question, why write the book like that's why it's the most important thing. I'm curious to get your take on this and I don't have a definitive perspective myself. And then I want to shift into the opportunities to overcome some of the challenges with traditional budgets and why they fail and why they make us feel like a failure with the the the one number budget. But first it's our relationship with work, because we're talking about the future self here, and it's I'm always fascinated with this as a digitally at the apologists,...

...if we look out towards the future and the idea of retirement. And I think a lot of this is, you know, from our time and strategic coach, like we've reset our perspectives of like, you know, as long as my brain is healthy and active, Um, I can be a contributing member of society and create some value and probably generate some type of income. You know, I'm gonna to be a hundred and fifty eight. That's my number, knowing the exercise that we go through in strategic coach. But you know, for someone who might not necessarily be, you know, quote unquote, entrepreneurial, I think there are a tremendous amount of entrepreneurial opportunities now, more than ever before, to augment income and to augment earnings, and maybe we'll see a shift. I don't know, maybe will be that millennial generation who is more comfortable, Um, using technology from an entrepreneurial perspective, because that's the the opportunity there. You know, we're seeing that with with Gen z specifically where? Where do you see this possibly playing out? Is there going to be a shift into just the way that we think about retirement as a whole? Because I think a lot of us we, you know, we think we're gonna, you know, get to retirement and that's our golden years and we're then, we're then we're gonna live life then, um, but then it's like, well, I don't know, it's a big philosophical conversation that I'm just you know, I continuously have with my own self of like how is all of this going to transform over the next thirty years, UM, because in thirty years I will be seventy one years old, Um, which I still feel is gonna be Super Young at that point. I think that it ties back to something I was talking about before with the statistics around at age fifty, you know, there's a certain percentage that is going to lose the jobs and no fault to their own, and I bring that up with clients, uh, repeatedly because I want them to understands like look, you gotta continually make yourself better. You've got to continually be like working hard, working on yourself, make yourself better. My first career was in telecommunications and I wanted to be the best, so I studied all the technology and everything. I was one of the smartest people as it related to all that technology. None of that stuff exists. Are All gone. But like, if I hadn't been focusing on, you know, evolving myself, then you know, I would have been stuck in John and right now I'd be unemployed. So continually making yourself better will lead to those opportunities, because if you're one of the best at what you do, then you know you'll be a sought out resource. If you're somebody that's like hey, you know, I've been a project manager for twenty years and you know I'm just kind of in my in my zone, I'm just doing this here in my cube, and you know what, uh, you know that's great, but you're just not going to stand out to the point where someone's going to seek you...

...out. Yeah, and it's this idea of what I call exponential growth that I'm writing about in banking on change, where, when you think about the age of Ai and all of the exponential changes that we are going to experience at both a macro and a micro level, I think you know you can look at that from a place of scarcity and, oh my gosh, this is completely scary. You experienced this yourself as a financial advisor going through covid you know, business kind of like transformed overnight. You started seeing people through a glass screen, and we were talking about that before. But you were able to adapt your mindset and you had a really hard conversation with someone who helps you see things a little bit differently and you kind of needed that. And this is the the essence of where you're growing personally professionally. Financial Coaching coaching tied to this, because how much of the work that you do goes beyond just, you know, budgeting. You're actually helping people see things differently. Because they see differently, they're gonna change their behaviors, their actions to the present moment, because their beliefs now are different. What's your take on that? Yeah, I'm always fascinated by the financial services industry and the breath of or the range of different advisors, because the term financial advisors unregulated, so it doesn't really mean anything. So some people go to market, it doesn't Um so some people go to market and like they're strictly investment advisors, and that's that's their lane. People go to them. They call themselves a financial advisor, but they're really focused on on that that niche, whereas I the approach that I wanted to take was I wanted to make impact on families and and help families, and so I take a much broader approach and sometimes those conversations, you know, money touches everything, so sometimes those conversations lead outside of money and uh, you know, I just want to help people. UH, desperately want to help people that sometimes, you know, I kind of forget my role or I forget my title is financial advisor. When I'm when I'm on my game, I remember and I'll ask for permission. You know. I was like, Hey, we're about to veer off, or you've asked me a question that's not really financed. Are you okay with me answering it? And you know, usually after working with someone for a couple of years, I've developed the rapport where they'll give me a little bit of latitude. It's an interesting place for sure. When when you think about this. So how does all of this connect back to the one number budget, because I think that gives me so much hope looking ahead towards the future, particularly where right now, this decade is going to be a little bit chaotic. But if we can simplify the complexity and and and money has a tremendously high inherent cognitive load. Um It is very complex for a lot of people, but it's the idea of just bringing it all the way back down... one number, the one number budget. What is it, how does it work and how can we apply this within our own lives and maybe even look for collaborative opportunities for you with other financial brands to bring this as a as a tool, as a resource to their account holders. When you look at the one number budgets, very simple worksheet, and the very first thing I do is I allocate of their gross income going towards long term wealth building, specifically retirement. And when I when I throw out this number, I'm talking about folks that are in there, you know, age thirty to forty bracket. You've got thirty years, or pretty darn close to it, until you get to retirement. So taken right off the top. And then the second line item on there after I allocate out for wealth building is taxes, and I always will say something like you know, you may have noticed. The I R S is going to take it anyway. Um. So we allocate for taxes and then that gives me what's left for lifestyle. What's available for lifestyle, and it's an annual number. At this point I divided by twelve to break it into a monthly number and then I break out what are your two largest monthly expenses? Now, typically for most people, housing is there probably their biggest monthly expense. So I allocate for that. I provide a little bit of a guidance and number on that. A fifteent of gross income is being really the Max that you really want to go for their Um. And then I leave room for second biggest expense. For families with small kids, that might be childcare. For my physician clients, you know, student loans is usually in there. And then that gets me down to okay, once I back out those two largest monthly expenses, my one number is what's available for everything else. So what I'll do with folks is when I walk them through that one number budget, because I'll say, okay, we've gotten down to a number of five thousand dollars. So here's my question. Can you get through? If I've already taken out housing and this other thing. Can you get through four weeks on five thousand dollars? And I wait and if they go yeah, you know for all of our other expenses, five thousand dollars. Yeah, we can definitely do that, and I'll say, okay, well, if you can do that then and then I'll come back up to the savings percentage number or the now the dollar number, and say, if you can do that, then that means that this is possible. And then we'll look at what are you actually savings? So we'll list everything out from four one K to investment accounts or anything else that they're putting money towards long term retirement. And maybe they find that they're saving at a twelve percent rate. Twelve percent rate, and I was like, okay, so we've we've got to figure out over time how we're gonna get from twelve to twenty. And so the sheet then has the sheet has uncovered. This..., this is what this is where my lifestyle ranges at and maybe we're not saving as much as we want to. So now I've got now I've got a coaching tool to say, okay, how can we get there? And some people they get so inspired they're just like, oh, yeah, well, we gotta, you know, we we can start saving another ten thousand dollars a month. You know, like like hold on Turbo, like you're talking about making a major change to your cash flow. Let's you know, let's work together on something that's not going to disrupt, you know, life. Um, but those are always great conversations. And so what I'm hearing you you share, is you've taken a very complex subject, you've broken it down to one page, you've distilled it down even further to one number, and that provides a tremendous amount of clarity. Um, and I think it's the clarity. And then you connected that with another c term that's part of our seven season model and banking on change. It's it provides a coachable tool. Um. And how might, how might someone who is listening? I think, wow, this is great. Um, maybe this is something that we could teach our account holders and use as a coachable tool. Where might there be collaborative opportunities? Just and I know I'm kind of future thinking, and I love doing this on this podcast because it's like we can start creating the future just through conversation together here. That inspires someone else. But where might there be collaborative opportunities for a dear listener who's like man this, it makes a ton of sense. Could this be something that is taught by others? It most definitely can. Be It just you have to have, you know folks that are seeking it out. You know they've they've they've reached their breaking point with the traditional budgeting. They feel like they're not they're not making the progress that they should. The real discussion really has to start with that lifetime perspective. What are they really working towards? What are they really trying to accomplish? Another reason why traditional budgeting doesn't work is savings. has kind of talked about in a punitive way. I've had people tell me it's like, why don't want to save for retirement because what if I die? All right, well, I can't really, I can't really answer that. As far as you know your listeners are concerned, like if I was, if I was in a bank or a credit union and was looking to help people manage their cash flow, you know that it's already being done by the four oh N K companies and it's being done by the I R s. They think about it, the I R S always gets paid. Why? Because they take their money first. Um, they take it out of your paycheck before you even get it. Um or you may have felt this way before or you've heard people say it. I Love The four oh N K because they get it before I even I never see it. So, from a bank or to your standpoint, is helping clients allocate cash flow into the...

...different accounts as it comes, as their paycheck comes in on direct deposit. Maybe. Oh, I'm liking this because I almost see a fintech play in this as well, to where you have an APP and you integrate all of your income accounts and kind of like a Pfm, but then it actually does the account allocation for you. Because what we're doing, and now I'm thinking about, like you know, tiny habits or atomic habits, were reducing a lot of the frictional workload of having to just do this. So it becomes autopilot and then we just get comfortable living with this one number because that's the world that we can work within. Right there, if someone is listening to this conversation, where can they get the book? Tour? So the book is for sale on Amazon, either the e book, Kindle version or paperback. They can get it there or they can go to the book website, one number budget dot com, and they can download a copy of the first chapter read about the money ball piece there. Those are the two ways they can get connected with the book. And besides the book, you know, I always like to to to wrap the podcast up on a very practical point. You know, for someone listening, what is the best way for them just think about their own unique situation, their own life? Um, how how can they maybe begin to think about just the one number budget, you know, to apply it? One small, simple step. What would that one small simple step be to guide them forward on their own journey? One simple step would be is to calculate your savings rate right now. You know your gross income and then, you know I'm adding a step, but two. Then compare that to what they're saving right now. Maybe you're saving it at a great rate and you're all set, or maybe you're far off off. And if you are far off, like when do you want to know? Do you want to know now, already years from now? Yeah, the fact that we can help people gain that clarity in the present moment, the better they off. They will be going forward into the future. John, thank you so much for the conversation. Great catching up with you. What is the best way for someone to just reach out, say hello and connect with you to continue to continue the conversation we started here today? One number, budget dot com. There's contact page there. Reach out to me there and I will respond. Connect with John, learn with John, grow with John. John, thanks again for joining me for another episode of banking on digital growth. Thanks for having me as always, and until next time, be well, do good, make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay. To get even more practical and proven insights, along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growth dot com slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales...

...leaders from financial brands and fin techs. Until next time, be well and do good.

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