Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 3 months ago

111) #InsideDigitalGrowth: Niche Is the New Local - A Fireside Chat

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The old model for financial brands was always based around geography — find your local market and serve it.

These days, there are no local markets…

Only niches.

In this very special episode, I join Mary Wisniewski and Jeffery Kendall  to discuss how to harness the power of niche in your financial brand.

We cover:

- Why niche is the new local

- How to build a portfolio of niches

- How to find a niche to target

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.
 

Hey, it's James robert. Thanks so muchfor joining me for a special Inside Digital Growth episode where I'm goingto be sharing insights from a conversation that I recently had withMary Wischnewski, banking Editor at Bankrate, along with Jeffrey Kindle Ceoof Nimbus about the opportunities four financial brands to create and capturecapitalize on when it comes to niche banking because I truly do believeniche is the new local and new starts. Now. Mhm You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth. With James robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketingsales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe Inside Digital Growth series where James robert shares, answers to some ofthe biggest digital marketing and sales questions he gets from the digitalgrowth community. Have a question you want to get answers to on a futureepisode, visit www dot go ask jr dot com to submit your question today. Nowlet's go Inside digital growth greetings and hello I am James robert,ley and welcome to the 111th episode of the Banking on Digital growth podcast.Today's episode is part of the Inside Digital Growth series and it's aspecial episode because I'm going to unlock access to a fireside chat thatwas recently hosted by the financial brand, where I was a guest joining maryWisniewski, Banking editor at bankrate, along with Jeffrey Kindle Ceo of Nimbus,who has also been a previous guest of the banking on digital growth podcast,going back to episode # 71. During this fireside chat conversation, maryJeffrey and I, we really focused the discussion around three key areasNumber one while leveraging speed is necessary for banks and creditors tomove ahead instead of just catching up to the digital curve. Number two, wetalked about how to avoid the take out menu of features and services andinstead provide real customer real member value and the number three, wetalked through the risk versus reward perspective, what that looks like forbanks and credit and striving to achieve meaningful digital growth,meaningful digital transformation. Now, to be really fair with you, I want togive you a heads up that this episode runs a bit longer than the normal 30minutes or so that we normally take here as part of the inside digitalgrowth series, but the extra 30 minutes on the back end are so worth it. Andbecause this is a special episode, I also want to do something very special.Something extra special for you that stick around after the fireside chatconversation. Normally, I answer a question from the digital growthcommunity as part of the Inside Digital Growth series. But today I'm going toturn the tables on you. I'm going to ask you the most important questionthat you can ever ask yourself, That you can ever ask your team, that youcan ever ask your financial brand. And it's a question that can massivelymaximize your financial brands future digital growth potential, let's getinto it, you know, before we get into the heavyof it, I just thought we'd set up a little bit of the back story, you know,digital transformation, something we've been talking about for years and soit's hard to, you know, feel like it's just as important as it was a decadeago. But a lot has changed, you know, decade has happened, we are in thismoment in time where we've been in a pandemic for more than a year. Digitalbanking has been accelerating and also the numbers for community banks hasbeen positive by F. D. I. C. S. Counts. So almost, you know, paints a positivepicture, but we're in this industry, we know there are cracks, we know thereare problems, we know there are challenges for the consumer experience,but we also know there are more opportunities. So instead of liketalking about doom and gloom, we're gonna be talking about possibilitieshow to grow your customer base markets that you might not think about. Thatcould be really helpful for growing your customer base and with that kindof as the landscape, I wanted to kick it to Jeffrey to just sort of not onlytell us what's at stake here, but also what's what are the possibilities here?Well, thank you mary and and James roberts. Great to be uh another webinarwith you guys always morning. And these are always really really funconversations, lots of good different perspectives here. So, so excited aboutit. But one of the things that you know, when I, when I think about where banksand credit unions are today with regard to growth, I think one of thechallenges is there's really two large amounts of pressure that are coming onbanks and credit unions. One is the...

...competitive angle from large moneycenter style banks that really have unlimited amounts of money when itcomes to budgets to putting together really, really robust digitaltransformation programs. And so I think there's an advantage there with thelarge banks that the tier two and tier three banks don't necessarily enjoy tothat extent. And then on the flip side, there's a lot of new challenger banksand neo banks that are coming up and even non traditional financialinstitutions that are creating financial services for people that maytake away from the need to have all your money tied up with a communitybank or credit union or regional bank. And so if you're if you're in themiddle and you're sort of getting squeezed or compressed by both sides ofthat equation, you have to look for new opportunities to grow your customerbase as well as grow the number of products that you can distribute tothose customers, those channels. And so that's one area that that we as acompany have been really, really focused on, which is saying there aremore opportunities for new customers and new product opportunities for banksand credit unions than may meet the eye. And we think that some of thosepossibilities are enabled through digital banks and digital products anddigital brands. And so we are big advocates of thinking about marketsegmentation and going to market and creating new digital channels so thatyou can serve new new customers and new products and so we think there's atremendous amount of opportunities and I know we'll get into some of thosedetails through this dialogue. You kind of just made me want to get right intoit. Now, I've heard the phrase, well I guess I created this more of the termof the hobby bank that I know from Nimbus standpoint, it's the niche bankand you're seeing this from the syntax side of things, you know, as youmentioned, challenger banks or they're getting more competitive, but nowyou're also seeing them go after very niche markets. You're seeing likedaylight going after the L. G. B. T. Q. Community Purple is the new bank that'shelping people with disabilities. And it's getting more precise but alsoNimbus has been doing this as well. You have some brands here that have beenvery niche. Let's let's talk about them just so the audience has an idea ofwhat we mean exactly by market segment. I know that James will have a lot tocontribute to this topic. But I think, you know, great companies, even outsideof financial services, great companies focus and start with the customer andthey start with the customer needs. And that's that's really where where Ithink the whole concept of niche really, really plays out. So the idea is fordecades and maybe even centuries now banks have traditionally gone to marketand thought about their customers with relation to a geography. It was, youknow, abc community bank that's downtown on Main Street. It was firstInterstate Bank in Idaho or or things that were very, very focused aboutgoing to market in a geographic way. But the challenge with that is that asconsumers are financial needs don't emanate from our geography. Ourfinancial needs emanate from our personalities and from our lifestylesand from the things that we value and care about as consumers. And so theopportunity for niche bank marketing is to say, how do you connect with a groupof customers based on that next level of deep financial need that comes fromthe fact that maybe they're a lawyer and need access to a bank that providesspecialist products that serve law firms. One of my favorite examples ofbanks that we've launched and support is Bank NV, which is a bank that'sfocused on recently graduated medical students. Those are our niches andqualities and personality characteristics of people that you cansee needs for their financial services and financial products generate fromthat peace, Not just the fact that they live in central texas or something likethat. So I think that's that's what we mean by niche. And I can't help but sayI can't help as you're going through. You talked about the legacy way of a goto market strategy, Jeffrey. It was traditionally and we can go back to theindustrial revolution with this because it was always product centric, we'regonna build a product and then we're gonna go to market and we're gonna tryto find people that identify with that product. But now we've heard terms ofhuman centered design or what I call even human centered growth to wheregeography ease. We see this with covid borders have fallen by the wayside, zipcodes have blended together and niche has become the new local and that nichereally is in the mind of the consumer, their questions, their concerns, theirhopes, their dreams, and when you take a human centred growth approach, youput people at the center of all of your thinking and doing and then bring aproduct to bear wrapped around as the prescription and the cures to thosepeople's pain points 100%. And that's where banks and credit unions have theopportunity is to start with the market...

...because the art of the possible withproducts is pretty broad. And once you understand the mindset of a customer,that's when you can create great profitable, high growth products, veryhard to go to market. As you know, James you have talked about this amillion times, which is if you're trying to be everything to everyone,you end up being very little to everyone. I can't help but think of abook from Seth Godin written, I think it was back in 2011 called we are allweird and Seth Godin was tapping in to the differences that we all bring.There are common patterns across market segments, demographics even. But thenthe deeper that you can go in is where you really find the formulaic approachto growth framed around a unique persons group or group of people, thosespecific opportunities right there completely agree. Do you guys thinkI've heard this in a previous interview that um uh executive had mentioned, heknew this is sort of like a renaissance of the credit union model that fordigital banking brands. I wondered, you know, if you think it's sort of athrowback with a little twist here, I'll let you go James but definitelyhave a point of view on that too. You know, it's it's interesting if you goback to the credit union model, it was started traditionally with a segue, aselect employee group and there was a built in affinity tied to that. Butthen what happened is credit unions went community credit unions wentregional and they got further and further away from that select employeegroup where there was a built in affinity. So it's almost like the oldproverbs, there's nothing new under the sun or what is old is now new again towhere, where the affinity is not necessarily with an employer, butlifestyle choices, belief systems, the very pieces that make human beings whathuman beings are absolutely. And and it can be something that what I think isinteresting about niches is that you as as individuals our needs and whataffinity we belong to might change over time. Sometimes we belong to a nichefor a very short amount of time. And sometimes it's for an extended periodbank that we just launched this week at the announcement. The pre sign up forthe bank is called Hitched and Hitched as a bank for newlyweds. And to helppeople who are coming together in a relationship sort of understand howthat affects their financial product needs and and the dynamics of financeswith the newly a newly wed couple. And so that's one of those ones. They say,okay well you're not a newlywed forever. Right eventually the honeymoon's overand into the long term side of these things. But it's even interesting forbanks to say I might develop a relationship with a person at thispoint at this stage in their life with very targeted products and marketing.But then I need a strategy to help them migrate through the rest of their lifejourney. And what I love about that, that approach is it starts with thecustomer. It's this doesn't start with we need more deposits, we need more,you know better, you know non interest income and things like that. It startswith what's the real need and how can we as a financial institution helpsomeone at this point in their in their life journey. And that opens up so manymore opportunities when you start with that humid centered growth approach tosolving a person's problems. Take the newlywed model. It also allows deeplevel expertise to be your part or part of your go to market strategy tocomplement the banking component as well. And then it also allows foralignment with others who are now serving that newlywed market ascomplementary to their services as well. And I you know, I can't help but justthink about what my wife and I we do pre marriage counseling for couplesthat are getting married and finances. And there's a program called prepareand Rich and it's a it's a diagnostic of sorts to where you can identifywhere there might be some pain points with a couple finances is traditionallyone of the very top pain points that we see. So I see even alignmentopportunities with like brands serving that similar market segment. Absolutely.I I remember back to when I was first period, there's a difference in how youlook at money. You know, we're all as individuals. Our relationship withmoney is can be very different and trying to combine two people withdifferent points of view on on money can be a challenge so that you'redefinitely spot on. You guys are bringing me to a small aside. Iremember I went to like a christian lobaton chat and he was likereferencing his wife was hiding them her purchases of lobaton from herhusband. That he said something like she just said that was like for hergynecologist, like, you know, they're...

...just like different ways you'recommunicating um when you're in a relationship but you're not. So I thinkit's just so curious of what what tools are beneficial and what tools are nonbeneficial, but also with this, when you, when you really know your market,I mean of course your bank, your idea in your customer and you get a bunch ofdata about them. But there seems to be like another data opportunity herewhere you're learning even more which can help with product development butalso like marketing and I'm curious what do, what you two think are some ofthe data advantages? Well there is there is definitely a there areadvantages once you understand the spending patterns and the financialpatterns of a very specific market or consumer group. And one of the thingsthat that I'm seeing is the amount of interest and the amount of largeconsumer brands who are understanding now, if they get more deeply embeddedinto the financial side of their customers lives, that that creates anopportunity to have a lot more data about their customers. So even largeretailers who traditionally have had no financial services products or maybe atbest a co branded credit card with loyalty points or something like that,they're starting to say if I could have half of my customers use bankingproducts that I could understand, the data from the road map of somebody'sfinancial life that I could see and understand from understanding theirtransaction history or their banking patterns. Consumer brands whotraditionally are very, very aware of market segmentation and understandingconsumer are looking to get into financial services because they see thehuge advantage of what they can get from the data about financial servicesfor their customers. So that's it's a little bit different if your if yourbank or credit union today, you should be thinking that that is going to be acompetitive pressure coming into the market. But it's also a testament that,you know, people, even outside of our industry are lathered up and very, veryready to get into that data when given the opportunity and it's coming. Andyou bring up an interesting point because as you started your thoughtspreviously, you mentioned the big bank who has just, you know, an unlimitedbudget to tap into. You have the Fintech space, but now you'reintroducing a new villain, if we may, which is which is a consumer brand. AndI think that's a it's something that a lot of us have never really thoughtabout before as a potential threat. But it makes a lot of sense. Another areathat I'm seeing as well is really on the accounting side. The HR side brandsthat are coming into the space that are now offering financial products as well.Because it all comes back to this point, as you mentioned, mary it's the dataand it's like we know more about the lives of our account holders, we havethe potential to know more about the lives of our account holders. Then theyprobably even know themselves because as you mentioned, Jeffrey, this is allabout pattern matching. Pattern matching can then fall back into habitsand when you can identify the habits it really begets the next level of thathuman centered growth approach to make those products even that much betterbecause they're framed around what people are actually doing and not justwhat they're saying because what someone says is one thing, but whatsomeone does, that's the actual truth of the matter, completely agree. Yeah,I know it's interesting because people always ask me like, well what happenswhen we run out of niches to go after? And I kind of say like that's a that'sa big hypothetical because I can't see the end of you know, they're being anend to the niches. Some of the things that we hear every single day are socreative, but I do but I do tell people that not every niche is a good niche togo after either. And so, you know, we could all come up with very radicalcrazy ideas. I think part of what you have to think through, as you'rethinking about whether a niche opportunities, number one, what's thetam? Can you actually put a number around how many people are in thatgroup? Because If you create a niche and there's only 50,000 people in theus who match that pattern that may not give you the volume and the lift andthe capability to go there. So understanding what's the sort ofminimum size that you could define a group of people from, I think it'sreally important. And then the second thing is what's going to be the hook?We talk every day, hours day at nervous about what the hook is and for us, thehook is what's the compelling feature product or capability that's going tomake it worthwhile for someone to switch their account from, say WellsFargo over to the niche bank. What's that piece of it? And sometimes that'sa financial product. Sometimes that's access to expertise as James robert wasmentioning earlier. Sometimes it could just be an incentive. Like, you know,maybe it's free red sox season tickets or something like that. But it's got tobe strong enough and tied into the...

...thesis of the bank that it did, itreally connects and makes sense. And so one of my favorite niches is the gigeconomy, you know, with the growth in this country and globally about peoplewho choose a career now that it's gig focused, either, you know,transportation or sharing assets like your house or delivery or you know,Covid has really brought this concept front and center even and it was evenprior to Covid. So I like the idea of focusing on people who havedifferentiate financial needs in the gig economy. And some of those thingsmight be when you choose the gig economy as your career. It's a bigissue because you're an independent contractor. Managing your long termsavings and retirement is an issue because they don't have the concept ofa four oh one K. Program that may be enjoying a traditional career healthbenefits. All these things come in and you start understanding the mindset ofsomebody who drives an Uber for a living and now you can create thesereally interesting products that are meaningful to them. So that's one of myfavorite niches that's out there for years. Yeah it mine revolves aroundlike sports because there's such a built in affinity. Like right now it'swe've got the N. C. Double A. Tournament, March Madness. Anythingthat drives emotion like an emotional pool sports very closely aligned withthat is dogs and cats pet lovers. Because there's something about theemotion that drives so much buying behavior. If you think about dogs andcats, you have chewy dot com, you could go and buy the same products off ofamazon, but the question is is why do people choose and it's a choice to shopit chewy? And a lot of it comes down to affinity. A lot of sometimes it comesdown to expertise as well. Another example of this is our ai because it'sa built in community of like, minds who are all journeying towards literallywith our ai this outdoor lifestyle. So I think when I think about niche, Ithink about strong emotional tie that really helps to move the needle forsomeone emotionally. I love that. So now, yeah, so attendees, you've gotsome ideas now to to riff on to again drop it and drop it in the chat. And Ido, I want to dial up for the for the gig as well, because also like thatkind of individual won't even know how much they're making on any given daynecessarily. Or like the income volatility is wild. So like that issuch a ripe opportunity to innovative and I I can only think of a fewexamples I think PNC was building new. No, I don't know where that standsright now, but it's definitely a right barrier as our emotional anything. Well,as you, as you mentioned, kind of the up and down of, you know, I can't helpbut think of like, you know, a spot me integration to, to wear, hey, I need toget to bridge this gap in the short term. I know that I'm going to make itup. Can you, can you just spot me this and emotionally that's going to takesome pressure off of someone because when those emotions start to rise, wedon't necessarily make the best of choices. But when we have that sense ofcalm and peace that someone's going to take care of me and watch, thatreinforces, you know what they took care of me, That increases brandloyalty and oh, by the way, I'm gonna go tell all of my other gig economyfriends and my gig workers that, hey, this is what this brand did for me. Ithink you should maybe consider them. That's the most powerful marketingchannel in and of itself, even in this digital world that we're living inright now. The referral. Yeah. And you can see that, you know, being veryvibrant from like chime borrow and again, these are broader challengerbanks, but I know there are getting crazy referrals just from like eitherreally stimulus or, you know, being able to get like that spot me or theearly pay day. It seems to be the hook as you were talking about Jeffrey tobring in a wider audience. But I think it's just so important, you know,checking account is very much commodity products, you need to like learnsomeone um you know, who are solving one of their problems, one of theirserious problems. I think that's a great, well you bring up some, that'sreally interesting, which is, let's just take varro and chime is to, youknow, challenger banks that have emerged as digital only players andthey got there because there were special features or capabilities orhooks to draw them in like the hourly wage access. One of the things that wedo, a lot of thinking about is how long can that last? So when you, if thedifferentiating is an easy product to emulate or to copy, then you've got tokeep ahead of the curve. And I think some of the early digital banks thatwere founded as just digital brands were so broad and their hook was reallyaround convenience, like simple for example, they were the pioneers indigital banking, but five years after they were founded, the traditionalbanks and credit unions had woken up and really gotten their digitalcapabilities and self service tools into a point where it wasn't reallythat different. You know, I I had a chase checking account and a simplechecking account and frankly I couldn't tell the difference between the twofrom a product of an offer perspective...

...at one point. And so I think whathappens in these banks is if you just have a week hook or one that you'rejust completely dependent on like early wage access, you have a threat of beingdisintermediation because then people just add that product into their banksand looking not very different. And so I wonder if chime and borrow just overtime if their brand and their approach is so broad that they'll end up justbeing just a normal bank, you know, that just doesn't happen to havebranches and that sort of thing. I've got two thoughts to that one is on thesimple side because we were studying simple, right as they were coming outof the gate and studied them for probably about five years even at thepoint to where about 100,000, you know, of those accounts, it wasn't, it wasall through referral acquisition I mean, but the niche market one could argue itwas maybe more of the techie people, the early adopters the first mover, so,but then it kind of went a little bit more broad, varro chime one that we'refollowing now is aspiration and you mentioned Wells Fargo from, you know,how do you get people to move their money from Wells Fargo? Well,aspiration is leaning into the pain points and it's, you know, a lot ofpeople don't know where their money is being invested and so aspiration isbeing very bold by saying we're not going to invest, you know, in oil andwe're not gonna invest in guns and you know, very hot political topics, butaspiration is, you know, put their flag in the ground to where now they'reliterally wrapping their whole product even around, you know, plant you swipeyour card, plant a tree. So it's a very purpose driven and I think that's kindof where this conversation goes, at least in my mind, coming back to yourpoint mary about about, you know, is this like the results of the creditingand model niche markets? We're having to re examine why we're doing whatwe're doing in the first place, number one and number two, Who are we doingthis for? It's like the why the who then the what than the how? Well, it'sfunny, it all comes back to basics, doesn't it? It's sort of this is why Ilove talking with you James robert because you understand marketing andyou understand that this is this marketing is sort of universal. And wetalked about this uh prior but it's like it was interesting like five orsix years ago, people start saying, well banks are technology companies.All they really are technology companies that are providing assets topeople. And I actually have a different perspective now. I think banks aremarketing companies and if I if I already asked, you know, 10 ceos ofbanks whether they're a marketing company, I bet I'd hear zero yeses. Butit's almost like well you need to be a marketing company. That's why chime andborrow have done such a great job is because they've really over indexed onunderstanding how to go to market and do customer acquisition things likethat. So I think for people on this call I just you know sort of say Ithink that banking is going less about being tacked. That's an enabler, that'sa tool. But you have to really understand your consumer of yourproduct and the basics of marketing. 101 tech is just a multiplier. It givesyou leverage. But it all comes back to this idea of of marketing which I wouldeven frame from the sense of of of growth acquisition positioninguniqueness in the marketplace. And what is that if we're gonna keep simplifyingthis and coming down to like the zero sum, it's understanding human behavior,people, what drives them getting even more basic masses, hierarchy of needs,what do people want? They want to, you know, feel healthy, they want to feelwealthy and that's not being a Brazilian air. It's just, I don't haveto worry about money and they want to feel happy. But money is the threadthat connects all of those different points together. Because an unhealthywallet leads to and this has been proven multiple studies. Unhealthywallet leads to unhealthy like physical fitness. Unhealthy wallet leads to, youknow, mental challenges. And so it's almost like if we can transform aperson's truly transform their wallet, we can really have the potential totransform their lives. I wanted to zoom in back when you were talking. I thinkmy dog was sparking to underscore your message. But um, and then I, I put thefurther on to make him go run in my closet. That's what he does. But yeah,yeah, but it's that cut and paste that always comes up in this industry, youknow, like you do something edgy then the big bank with all that money isjust going to do the same thing. You know, even when I log in to chase now,I see a lot. But it's like, you know, you can link in your other bankaccounts, you can do auto save in a more interesting way. You know, it's,it's hard. I used to think there should be a segment you stole my look, but itwould be fintech versus bank or bank versus vintage because it's such ayahoo weren't that I could be a judge, but it's just such a problem that seemsalmost inevitable. But as you know, as bankers are going after a more specificaudience, it seems like sort of a loophole to this. And I'm curious ifthat's how you think about it too or you know, how do you think focus on avery specific audience might help with...

...this ongoing dilemma. It definitely, itcomes back to getting that product offer right, and understanding it. Imean, that's that's why I really encourage people. It's like if youdon't have a strong marketing team right now and you're ceo of the banklike today, go start figuring out how to make a super strong marketing teambecause exactly the question that you just asked would only be really able tobe answered by a professional and sharp marketing team, which is how do we getahead? How do we make a differentiated offer and how do we identify the targetthat we're going to go drop that onto? And that's where the advantages andthere is a speed to market And the time to market component of that. And that'sone of our things is so important to us in our value system is getting bankslaunched quickly. That's why we focus on getting it done in 90 days becausewe believe that's the speed that the market is moving at. And if you reallywant to go own a segment, you want to own a niche, you've got to start now orit will be gone. You know, one of the things I see right now is there's a tonof offerings for of new digital banks that are serving the black community.It's like, okay, well how are you gonna do? You know, and and there's like fouror five in the wings waiting right now who haven't launched? They've announcedthey're launching their coming to market and I'm sitting there with sortof popcorn waiting on, who's going to come out with the real hook that'sgoing to matter. It gets them, launches them into success because it's notgoing to be all of them. Right. I tell people all the time I said that, youknow, the road of digital banking is littered with failed banks. Right,Simple. You know, they're they're now basically defunct and it's really sad,but there's a reason that these things sort of come up and and shut down andwe'll do that and it will continue to do that in volume. So technology hastransformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for andbuy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all, but yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financialbrand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robertwrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digitalgrowth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of hisbest selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now foryou and your team from amazon Inside, you'll find a strategic marketingmanifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed fullof practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show. Well, itcomes back to something that I've seen, you know, doing this almost 20 yearsnow that I diagnosed as R&D. And that's not research and development. That'srip off and duplicate. Uh, someone said something and they want to bring thatin. I was so appreciated that one James Robert. I love that. I was so inspired.I was, I was a freshman in high school. It was Miss bungalows ap english classand she had a, a poster on the wall and it was the old poem. Two roads divergedin a wood and I took the one less traveled and, and that has made all thedifference. But I always looked at that poster and I didn't want to go downeither path. I've always wondered like, well what if, you know, we rewrote thatand said two roads diverged in a wood and I blaze my own trail down themiddle. And I think this idea, that's, that's where it's like let's go downthe middle of the woods and see what's there. Do some exploratory work firstto see if there's a market opportunity. It comes back to like asking, gettingreally good at asking people just good questions is really kind of thefoundation of all of this and then let let their answers. People will tell youwhat they want And what they don't want and then launch 90 days and then comeback learn optimized iterate making even that much better. But this wholeidea is a very different way of approaching the market of justapproaching growth for that matter. Because if you think about building abranch right, you build a branch, it's done. You can't really optimize thebranch. Maybe you can change the colours. But this is just continuouslearning evolution and that's what leads to exponential future growth, Ibelieve. Absolutely. And it starts with the interesting thing, so I'm new toNimbus, I became the ceo of starting in october and when I came here, one ofthe first things that did was invested in building out a world class internaldigital agency is what we call them. And we gave it a name called NimbusLabs and we just did a press release on it this week, but we've been workingwith them to slaps for for the past couple of months. And one of the thingsthat we have majored on and the reason...

...it was the challenges, I'm ceo of asoftware company. And when you start doing things like building out digitalagencies, investors and people look at you with sort of the R. C. A dog, youknow, tilted head like what are you doing? What? I don't understand thatwhat I told him is like even though we're a software company, what we'retrying to do is drive outcomes and outcomes have to be measured andoutcomes start with data. And if we don't have a great capability ofunderstanding market data ourselves from our customers customer side thenwe're not gonna be able to help our customers as much. So we majored oninvesting in a team that all they do now is look at data and demographicdata and different things to support with data. Some of these niche conceptsthat come up. So if somebody says, hey, you know, I think we should start abank for truck drivers, we can go, hey okay intuitively we get that. Let's gospend a week and a half really researching that segment of the marketand figure out how big is it. Can we actually go to market? Is there a routeto talk to that specific segment and start there And then really help whenwe walk in with our bank and credit and customers, we don't have all theanswers because we're not the only smart people in the world, but we canat least start with something because this is a data driven decision abouthow we're going to do something new and different in innovation versus justcome up with uh oh here's another wild idea. It's got to be back with data,right? So and I've seen I'm sorry mary, I've seen that work, I've seen thatwork that that team is doing Jeffrey and it is it all starts with the peopleand it it starts big and then it gets smaller and they get smaller and thenit gets smaller. And I think I'm curious and maybe mary you're you'regonna go here as well because we are talking about this the other day, thisisn't what is the ideal optimal size? Because that's how I think, I thinklike let's start with the end in mind and then let's back into that. And youhad shared something that that I thought was really, really importantbecause you go truck drivers, okay, what's the market segment look like? 2to 3 million. One of about 2 to 3 million. How many people do we actuallyhave to acquire to say, you know what, this is a worthwhile strategy tocontinue to explore and invest in? Yeah. And it's interesting, I think it's amoving target, but it's you know, when we go in and we talk about a new niche,whether it's consumer focused or whether it's small, business focused orcorporate focus obviously makes a difference in the quantity that youneed to be to really sort of say, how many, how many customers do we have tohave at a minimum to be successful with the digital bank. And what we found isthat on the consumer side it's really about 10,000 is the threshold 10,000customers if you have. And and again, what products you offer, theprofitability that can matter. But if you just took sort of what we think ofas the traditional banking products, you can make a successful digital bank.If you can acquire 10,000 users Chime has 12 million. So, you know, 10,000 ispretty, pretty tiny to do this and make it successful. And the reason it's amoving target is that that number actually gets smaller as technologybrings the cost of launching a digital bank down. And I talked to people aboutthis all the time, two years ago, even a year and a half ago, if somebody wasin the in the market and said, you know what, I want to start a digital bank,this great idea, how much is it going to cost me? It was a minimum of $20-$30million dollars just to launch the bank. And it takes about it takes about twoyears to really build it out and integrate everything that you need. Andso what we've done and what we've really focused on is we've got tocontinue to bring that price down from there. You know, and now we're, youknow, ours is in the million dollar range to go launch a digital bank Sincewe've changed the economics and cut the cost of investing down by 20th. It alsothen reduces the amount of customers in a niche that you need to make itprofitable or get a good R. O. I. On it. And so that's where we focus a lot ofour time on is how do we control that cost? How do we get really, reallyefficient through scale that we've built internally for our tools andproducts to make it affordable so that it becomes easy to get an R. O. I. Offof a niche. So I've got $1 million, I can go put it in the physical world andmaybe staff a branch for that, you know, operations or whatever you want to callit. Or I can open up a completely new market opportunity, a million potential.Just because Math is easy, A million potential account holders, I need toget 10,000 of that. So then I can go, you know, by access to audience and youknow, influence or marketing align myself with other people who are in andserving that market segment that it just makes a lot of sense to focus inon the few to create the greatest value. But that's a very just different way Ithink you know when we think about growth and banking than it has beenover the last 100 years. Absolutely. And I think that introduces anotherwrinkle like that. 10,000. Do you want...

...them the primary? Do they need to bethe primary account? Because I know another trend that has been hopping isbanks are sharing customers within text which makes it a bit more complicatedthere. But you know, do they need to have the whole relationship whenthey're going after that 10,000 or at least be the primary assuming it's achecking account for example. No in fact the assumptions are relatively lowfrom what we've seen because there's there's one which is okay, how manyaccount holders and then there's the assumptions behind what's the activityof those account holders that are driving the profitability on it. Andreally like in our models, what we use is about four debit card transactions amonth in an average daily balance of about $1,000. So depending on who youare that might be your P. F. I. Or if you're maybe a little bit further up inthe wealth and asset class, maybe that's that is just a side bank for you.So I think that's the way to look at it. Which is what are the underlyingassumptions in terms of assets and transactions that can go in and makethat work Now. What what should have been? Do they find a promising niche?They think they can get their 10,000. What's the next step? Lock and load onthe 90 day rollout or you know, what how do they see this vision through? Somy big they start to start with the research, go validate that the goodidea that you know that you came up with in the shower was actuallysomething that supported there. And then it becomes finding the rightpartner that can really help you launch with speed. And you know, it'sinteresting. I get this question. A lot people are like, well if yourcompetitive advantage jeffries that you help people do this in a rapidtimeframe and you're but you talked to everybody about why you're sort of getaccused of being maybe a little too transparent about our business modeland how we make this successful. And so when people say find a partner that cando it fast because a lot is happening right now and so there's two differentapproaches you can take. You could say, look, well, I'm gonna go design andarchitecture and a technical stack that's gonna be, I'm gonna bespokedesign it and pick out every little piece in the stack and make it work andintegrate it. That's a 2 to 3 year project ambassador attitude going in.You're never gonna get to market on time. If you take something that's moreturnkey and start with done and then tweak it and turn it over time. That'sour advocated approach. So it's get to market as fast as you can test and loseearly. That's the approach that you should be thinking about. And to add tothat thought that 2-3 years at what cost and it's not just a monetary costs,you know, out of the pocket, it's an opportunity cost in the marketplace.And I think that's the most important thing that we should think about. Ilike Particularly when we talk about this idea of of human centered growth,it's the 80% rule, I think there's so much pressure internally and I see itand I hear it at financial brands like we want like 100% before we launch thisthing and I'm like but that's that's not how it works. We need 80% like weneed something that's viable to the M. V. P. Minimal viable product welaunched that and it comes back to let's get it in and test learn and thatreally requires us to rethink internally. How we view failure, right,failure is nothing more when we're thinking about this then the fertileseeds that were planting for the future growth. Now if we don't learn anythingor if we don't do anything from those learnings well then that absolutely isfailure. But this failure must be transformed to like, let's measureprogress here that we're making And not worry about perfection. And the waythat we can measure progress is every 90 days coming back to your model Every90 days. We can measure from where we, we've come from over the previous 90days versus getting all caught up into all the other things that we have to doback to that 2-3 year model that you were talking about before. Absolutelyprogress, not perfection. It's not going to happen. One challenge that maycome up or I'm thinking, I've heard it said by entrepreneurs, I felt it in myown work sometimes, you know when your idea gets murdered, it's hard to likego again, you know, you're like, what did you do? I can just see the likeinnovative banker at the community bank, you know, feeling so sad about that. UmI'm wondering any tips there for like, you know, it's not a failure but yetfor the person who spent so much time and imagination creating it, you know,any any tips to, you know, get back on your feet and go again or you know, onething I have found, maybe it's not now, but maybe it's a green light later andlater years, later months for me, the biggest thing I can always tell when,when we're working with customers, it's you know, no surprise that the conceptof being, creating an environment where people are, are able to innovate andfree to innovate starts with leadership, right? So you can look at the very toplevel leadership in a bank or credit union, you can tell whether or notthey're going to be open to new ideas or not, it's just the reality of it.And I think, you know, if your...

...leadership empowers you, if yourleadership encourages you to not be afraid to try new things because offailure, those people are just going to be happy. And frankly, if you're stuckin an organization where you feel like every good idea, you have hit theceiling or a wall, that's probably an indicator of the long term viability ofthat bank in this market. Right? And so I tell people, I said don't don't spenda lot of time waiting years and years to figure out if you're in anenvironment where you can continue to try to move the needle and change andinnovate. So I think that's going on in a lot in the market and I think a lotagain this is it's funny, digital transformation is such a broad term, itgets thrown around a lot and we all kind of it's very ethereal, but at theend of the day it's just about people, it's about people just doing somethingnew and using some tools to get there. But at the end of days you've got tohave the permission to the ability to try a new idea. You just made me thinkthat 90 day turnover would be really helpful, you know, because at least youget the no pretty quickly. But also I know leadership changes could happenand that should circumvent that challenge to you don't have to likekeep finding the right person to pitch things too. But we're going to seeJim's mother. I thought a lot about this coming out of Covid over the last12 months. This idea back to your point, Jeffrey digital transformation. It'sit's the buzzword bingo. And I can't help but think the less that we talkabout technology and the more that we focus on the human aspect human growthdesign perspective with this, the more value that will create internally andwill create value internally by creating value externally through anempathetic lens. To that point, what I've found is all transformation of anytype which transformation is really at its heart, it's just about growth. Alltransformation begins with two things number one telling the truth early,often always to yourself and to your team, to those that you're working withabout where you've been, where you are and where you could go next on thisthis journey of transformation and growth and the number two getting atleast some type of training, education awareness to help the unaware becomeaware of what the future could look like because we have to keep in mindlike those that might not see what you see. It's easy for them to fall backand get and stay stuck in the cave of complacency because that's all theyknow. And so training education to help the unaware become aware I've found hasreally been transformative exercise in and of itself because even this idea ofFintech, I asked you know, have you ever opened an account at theleadership team, have you ever experienced Fintech you know about it?But have you ever opened an account and see what it feels like? No, no, no, nothat's your homework. Go open an account, see what it feels like. Reportback to me in a month. We have a conversation oh my gosh, this was thiswas so easy, this was amazing. Okay, well let's talk about how did it makeyou feel so I think just that idea of just awareness into opportunities, itmakes the fear of the unknown. Not so scary, I love that show and tell showand tell, you know, I wanted to I thought another interesting element ofthis conversation is to talk about like the other growth opportunity some banks,a handful of banks are exploring, that's to partner with the fin text,like the community bank who wants to partner with the next time or perhapsgoogle plex or you know what the case might be. You know, how would youhighlight the pros and cons for doing something like that versus um launchingyour own digital banking brand? Well, one of the things that actually afriend of mine, dave Mayo from, from fed fist, pointed out to me and Ithought was really, really relevant. He said, you know, community banks arewaking up to the fact that the most valuable asset that they have is theircharter. And right now, I think the question is, is basically, do yousupport embedded financial products or banking as a service, whatever buzzwordterm you want to put on top of it? But are you going to extend the capabilityto go to market to someone else because of your, you know, and you still managethe risk and the and the charter functions on the back end. And and Ithink that that is that is where what we're trying to do is encourage banks,is to say yes, you should partner, you should figure out a way to monetizethose relationships and partnering within text because the Frontex can'treally exist without the banks. Like there's some if you don't need acharter huge market, if you can't have charter backed products. And so to someextent, you know, if you're, if you're a forward thinking bank, you're gonnabe saying, look, there's a huge growing market out there that can't existwithout me. How do I put myself in the...

...middle of it now? I believe this firmly,which is out of the 10,000 plus credit unions and banks in the country,there's only a certain amount of those that are going to be able to besuccessful at being a Fintech partner or sponsor bank or charter bank. And upuntil now it's been sort of maybe a dozen banks in the country are really,really driving impressive business models off that community banks,regional banks are all interested in getting into that space, but theybetter do it quickly because I think the early, the early leaders here willbe the market holders long term. And then, you know, if you wait 2 to 3years to sort of figure out whether or not you should help in text by being asponsor bank, the opportunity is probably going to be lost at that point.I think it comes down to access to eyeballs. I mean that's really that'sreally what this conversation is all around. Fintech wants access toeyeballs, who has access to eyeballs, its banks and credit community banksand credit specifically. And and and then it's like, okay, well then ifyou're going to open up this idea of whatever the buzzword banking is, aservice, well that's a whole operational conversation that you haveto have internally, because then it's about scalability. Like, like do youhave the backend operations to be able to scale out something like this? Soaccess to eyeballs? And it's something that it's it's it's an importantconversation to have internally because it's like who do you want to be when wegrow up in this digital world? Well it's funny, I I love that youbrought up the whole eyeballs thing because one of my favorite pastimes onlinkedin is watching bankers get salty about the valuation of time. So yousure you want to admit that? I know it's every day, you know, varro comesout with their call reports and their thing and then there's this debateagainst by traditional bankers like well they're not profitable, guess what?They don't care, that's the reality here. And the reason that it's sosurprising to you is that your paradigm of banking in the past was all aboutnet income and profit. The new players understand it's about eyeballs, that'swhat's monitored, that's the value, that's what's creating the multiple andevaluation of these banks, not whether or not they're profitable. And I alwaysgo back to when, when WhatsApp was acquired by Facebook, it was a 2014 orso. And everybody just lost their minds over how a company that was generatingalmost no revenue could have a $19 billion dollar valuation on it, guess what? They had hundreds ofmillions of users and that was what facebook wanted. That's what people arevaluing on time and borrow. And the other ones are saying actually theprofitability is less importantly. But can you imagine if I had access to all12 million chime users wouldn't that be interesting with all that data with allthat data that comes with it? And and and this really brings everything thatyou said before, you know, banking. The previous paradigm was banking, there'llbe technology companies and you're saying, no, this is all about marketing,why? Because marketing drives audience marking, drives you know, building theaudience, getting that access to those eyeballs and it's more important thanthat. I think it's it's building the emotional relationship with thesepeople because even like with WhatsApp, it's a motive. You can you're usingtechnology to bring two people together to form a relationship, to communicate,to stay in touch. If you said that you said this earlier, it actually tiesback to exactly what you said to which is if you start with the product Andthen you go search for the channel on the target market. That's really hard.And so when people are thinking about valuations on things like China's, youhave the market, I can figure out a product to put through a channel tomake it to make money. If you give me an audience at $12 million, that's thebet. Yeah. So that's really where I think that that valuation is beingdriven from and the reason again, it comes back to what I love listening tothe comments. I'm like dinner reading the comments is like people are missingthe point and it's like you're arguing, you know, football rules againstbaseball, it's like having the wrong conversation. So I I was joking, but Ido appreciate a salty banker or salty person. I can get on twitter too. Imean that's always a source of fun. I know we're coming up on time, so I justwanted to mention if anyone has questions, feel free to drop it, Iguess in the chat and I can feel that. But you know, one thing I did want tomention and I know we talked about it prior in our prior chat, but you know,I'm just curious, you know, how people are in different places than they mighthave been pre pandemic. You know maybe there in Miami, maybe there in Montana,maybe they're living with their parents. Is there any special considerations forwhen a bank is, you know on boarding a customer who's not where theytechnically normally would be or it doesn't match with their idea. Is thereanything that the bank should be considering regards to this bizarrelittle moment? More than a little...

...moment but a moment in time? Yeah Imean we definitely see with particular regard to K. Y. C. Because we were onthe K. Y. C. Function for the digital banks that we support. We havedefinitely seen a much higher amount of hey I live with my parents now so Idon't really have an established address. My my I. D. Doesn't match myaddress where I'm saying I'm living and where I need my debit card and that'slike red flags all over the place for for fraud management and K. Y. C. So Ithink I'm not sure that there's a great answer for it. But there are a lot ofmanual things that have to be done nowadays that are making that a moreexpensive process. I would just say to people its automated what you can andget prepared to do a lot of manual work on that side of the of the equation aswell because I think it's going to be here for at least another 6-9 monthsthat we're going to be experiencing that in terms of on boarding. Yeah. Iimagine falling back on on the ceo of four seasons. You know one of hissayings was automate the predictable so that you can humanize the the theexceptional automate what you can but you might have to humanize this fromtime to time. Yeah, maybe maybe give your employeespresent whoever's doing the manual labor there. Um I guess, you know,closing, closing thoughts on the possibilities of what a bank can becomein the digital landscape. I just think it can help more people solve theirproblems, which I think is a beautiful thing if you realize. But I'm curiouswhat you to think of what a digital bank can be. I'll let James robertclose it out. But I think, you know what I'm really excited about is Ithink transformation means sort of looking at yourself differently and andreally you've got to think that you're going to be different. And when youtake the concept of if traditional banks now start launching niche banksand going down that route because we're starting to see our customers thatmaybe came to us for one niche, then they go, well, that was easy, why don'twe do 10 niches? And so now they start looking like a family of brands and afamily of niche banks. Versus just here's my traditional bank and here'smy digital bank, that's that's sort of a becoming a quickly outdated approach.Now, it's and I've used this this analogy all the time. It's no, you'renow a high end shopping complex. Your traditional brand is Nordstrom andNeiman Marcus as the anchor tenant, and you don't want to lose that brandequity. I'm not saying that, but there is this opportunity to have a foodcourt and there's an opportunity to have a Rolex store and a Tiffany storeand little mall kiosks in the middle of it. Even that might just be the analogyto, here's a specific product. It's not that we're creating a digital bank, butit's a digital product, very, very focused on on a specific audience. Sothat's where I think that when we look back in 5 to 10 years, these big megamain street brands, that's gonna be, we're not as consumers going to want tobank in that way anymore. Yes, it does come down to what I would call aportfolio of brands and those become assets and we might even see thetrading of those assets from one F. I to another. It's almost like a sportsanalogy. I'll give you two and I'll take one. Or maybe it's like the lunchroom, I'll take your peanut butter and jelly sandwich for for your turkey,whatever the case might be. But it is going to be more specific aroundsolving niche market segment problems. And coming back to this idea oftransformation, I see four transformations that are going tohappen. Number one it all starts with the transformation of self internallythe leader for example the leadership team, even marketing sells this wholeidea then you transform the team. Then you can transform the organization. Why?Because an organization is made up of teams. Teams are made up of individuals.So it all starts with the transformation of the self. When youcan make these three transformations then we can begin to transform the waythat we position, go to market and transform the communities that we serve.Although community might no longer be bound by a border. Yeah. With this last insight I shared in mindduring our fireside chat conversation and thinking about how community hasreally moved beyond physical borders and boundaries and how niche is the newlocal and new starts now with niches framed around communities of commonvalues, likes interests, even careers for example I'd like to guide youthrough what I'm going to call, let's just say it's a it's a mini or it's anon demand strategic growth session. You might also find it a value to sharethis podcast with others that your financial brand to do this strategicthinking exercise on their own and then come together as a team as a group tocompare and discuss how your answers or...

...the same or or they might be differentso that you can create a plan of action because that's the most important thingof this all is is to take these insights and begin to turn them intoaction so that you can move forward with courage, you can move forward withconfidence and then you can hold each other accountable as you move forwardtogether. So grab a piece of paper, grab a pen And just clear out 10 15minutes, no more than 20 minutes on your calendar to really think throughto right through four simple questions that are guaranteed to empower you andyour financial brand, to maximize your future digital growth potential. And ifyou don't have a pin or a piece of paper handing right now, maybe you'relistening to this podcast on the road, Maybe you're at the gym, maybe you'regonna run. Like I normally listen to my podcast on screenshot this time stampand then take a note, make a note or reminder in your phone to come back tolisten to it and to complete this quick and simple but super powerful exercisebecause it really is the most important question or set of questions that youcan ask yourself your team And your financial brand to guide you forwardalong your digital growth journey. So let's get started here with questionnumber one framed around your own unique thinking, what were the topthree insights that you gained from this fireside chat conversation framedaround niche, being the new local and how new starts now. What were those?Top three incites the biggest key takeaways that you gained, write thosedown on a piece of paper And then let's move on here to question # two. Withthese top three insights in mind, what do you feel are the biggest goals forgrowth that your financial brand can work towards to begin to turn theseinsights into action as you move forward and make progress along yourdigital growth journey. And the best way to think about defining goals forgrowth here is to frame them around what I call the coffee or cocktailquestion, what I want you to do is I want you to imagine that you and I werehaving coffee or cocktails I'm buying, It's three years from now and you're ina really good place, you're in a really good place personally, you're in areally good place professionally, you've got a big smile on your face,Life is good. What has to happen for you between now until then for you tofeel good about the progress that you've made along your financial brandsdigital growth journey and so what I want you to do is leap ahead in yourmind, take a sip of your coffee or your cocktail and then look back to today,write down all of the progress that you've made on your digital growthjourney over those three years, over those 36 months, thinking about theinsights that you've gained through this fireside chat conversation framedaround how niche is the new local. So leap ahead in your mind, Look backwardsand then write down all the progress that you've made, Recalling the keyinsights that she wrote in question # one. To turn those insights into action.Let's move on to question number three here and so now that you have some clarityinto your goals for growth, the future that you're working towards, what Iwant to do for this question is think and right through what roadblocks youmust be aware of or what challenges you must commit to eliminate. That couldstand in the way of your financial brand from moving forward towards thosegoals, from making progress along your digital growth journey. Finally, Let'smove on to question # four together to think and write through. And thequestion is this what opportunities do you see that are available for yourfinancial brand to create? To capture or to capitalize on as you breakthrough the roadblocks and eliminate the challenges that you just noted tomove forward and make progress towards those goals for growth That you notedin question # two. So what you've just done here with these four questions isreally answer the most important question that you can ask yourself,your team, your organization. And that question is this, how do I want to growor I grow? Which is an acronym for insights, goals, roadblocks andopportunities because we, we can go through life and listen to podcast andgo to conferences and we can read books. But if we never take time to stop topause to review, reflect on the insights that we gain. So it's learningto think about how we can apply those...

...insights by defining goals and thenwhat those roadblocks that might be that sent on our way where theopportunity to break through those roadblocks, If we don't take time tostop pause, think review, reflect, learn, then we're always gonna getstuck in this continuous cycle of just doing it. Could be doing digital, itcould just be doing life for that matter. And so use this exercise. Howdo I want to grow or I grow insights, goals, roadblocks and opportunities asa great framework going forward for any any activity that you're looking tolevel up that you're looking to maximize both personally andprofessionally and so, thinking further about the insights goals, roadblocks,opportunities that you've noted here. I just like to guide you through a littlebit further thinking with three specific questions framed around thepotential transformations you must make when it comes to marketing cells andleadership strategies as you look to maximize your financial brands futuredigital growth potential. And so here's question number one, how will youtransform your marketing communications strategies to escape the complexitiesof competing in a commoditized and crowded marketplace? How mightrecalling your insights that you've documented, recalling the goals thatyou've noted? How might focusing on a niche market segment or niche marketsegments empower you to create new blue ocean marketing opportunities. Questionnumber two, how will you transform cells and legion strategies that take aproactive stance instead of taking a reactive when a proactive stance thatguides people along a digital buying journey that guides a niche market orniche market segments along their digital growth, buying journeys beyondtheir specific questions and concerns towards their own bigger, better andbrighter future. And then question number three, how will you transformleadership strategies, leadership strategy that helps you see beyond thepresent moment to identify a new purpose that finally puts thetransformation of people over the commoditized transaction of dollars andcents to rise above thinking so much about what you do And how you do itbecause that's where 95% of financial brands are stuck today. Everyone isthinking about, well this is what we do and this is how we do it. And that'sexactly why almost all financial brands look and sound the same in themarketplace and for you to truly make this transformation for you to truly goall in to escape and break free from commoditization once and for all, itrequires you to not just think about what you do and how you do it, but tofirst and foremost start thinking about why you do what you do and who you dothat for, that's your purpose, that's your reason for being, because onceyour purpose is established along with who it is established for why you dowhat you do and who you do it for the who being the niche or the niche marketsegments that you will create the greatest value for once you know thewhy and the who then you can use both the why and the who to inform the, howyou do what you do and so through your experiences that you bring to bear inthe marketplace being the how and then the what your products when you startwith your purpose and a purpose framed around creating and crowded marketplace.So as you go through the strategic growth exercise, maybe you have somefurther questions that you like to get answers to and that's why I'm excitedto share. I'm launching a new series called clarity calls, that's going tobe part of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. And it's where we willtalk through questions that you have together live and I'll answer them live.And so I'd love to hear from you and guide you along your own digital growthjourney. So please do, if you have a question, what's one big question thatyou have? One big question about? Maybe it's digital marketing, digital sales,digital leadership. What's on your mind right now? Text your biggest question2832 549 5792. And I look forward to talking through that question with youto provide you with some guidance to provide you with some clarity on anupcoming clarity calls episode. And remember, the only bad question is thequestion that goes unasked as always...

...and until next time be well. Do goodand make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of bankingon digital growth with James, robert. Ley. Like what you hear, tell a friendabout the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcasts orSpotify and subscribe while you're there. To get even more practicalimprovement insights, visit www. Dot digital growth dot com to grab apreview of James roberts, best selling book banking on digital growth or ordera copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside you'll find astrategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focusthat empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans anddeposits. Until next time. Be well and do good.

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