Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 5 months ago

98) #ExponentialInsights - The Most Human Company Wins

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We live in a world where no one wants to be sold to. We have ad blockers. We pay subscription fees to Netflix to avoid commercials.

You can’t buy a victory with advertising anymore.

No, these days, the most human company wins.

That wisdom comes from my latest guest, Mark Schaefer, Chief Operating Officer at B Squared Media and Author of Marketing Rebellion, in which he navigates the breakneck speeds of digital marketing and explains why human-centered companies are the ones who will emerge victorious.

In this episode, we discuss:

- Why advertising dollars are less powerful in modern marketing

- Why human-centered marketing is the path forward

- How personal branding helps make your company more human

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.
 

...we're in a society today, people don'twant to be sold to their sick of it, they run away from it, they block it,they avoid it and if they get a whiff that you're selling something, they'renot going to walk away, they're going to run away. Mhm mm. Right. Mhm. You're listening to bankingon digital growth. With James robert lay a podcast that empowers financialbrand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growthpotential By generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode ispart of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews theindustry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practicalwisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the showgreetings and hello, I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 98th episode ofthe Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome MArc Schaefer to theshow. Mark is a globally recognized speaker, educator, business consultantand author. He is also the co host of the Marketing Companion, one of the Top10 Marketing Podcast on iTunes. Mark is also the best selling author of eightbooks, including known marketing rebellion and the newly releasedcumulative advantage. I look forward to talking to Mark today about theopportunities for financial brands to build momentum for digital growth bybeing human centric in a post Covid digital First world. Welcome to theshow, Mark. Well, it's great to be here and we are certainly going to have someexponential insights today. We are and I'm excited about this because you andI have been dialoguing back and forth on linkedin and it's finally good tojust get to connect in person, quote unquote before we hit record. Alreadymaking some connections and I want to come back to before we get there. Whatis just one thing that is going well for you right now, personally orprofessionally? That's good. Well, I mean 2020 was pretty bad year from alot of different perspectives. So you know, and I really feel like the lightsare green right now. Public speaking is coming back. I just did my first Liveconference in like 400 days in Miami and I got to tell you how justabsolutely energizing it was to be in front of a live audience and people areso enthusiastic, so happy to be there. It was very well run by the way interms of being really conservative, still around social distancing anddisinfecting the room and so forth. But you know, I think people are feelingbetter about coming back gathering and that's, that's a powerful thing. I'mright there with you. I've gotten back on the road a little bit. Things likeyou said, the green lights are coming...

...back on. I'm excited about that. Andone of the things that you mentioned before we hit record is you're doingsome work with the american banker, which is how you and I had connectedpreviously. And I want to come back to that because something that you notedat the unconventional conference last year you shared, it's going to be themost human bank that will win. And I think that's important to start thisdiscussion here. Number one, what does that mean to be the most human bank?What is that? And why do you believe that's the case? Well, this iscertainly one of the major themes in the marketing rebellion book. Thesubtitle is the most human company wins. So first if you think about, we'rereally moving through a world where we see less ads, right? I watch a lot oftv. I never see ads because I'm watching it on Hulu or netflix. I'mlistening to the radio all the time. Radio, quote unquote, right? I'mlistening to music but it's on Spotify. I don't hear as I listen to audio books,I don't hear ads. Advertising consumption is down 95%. Mhm. And thecompanies that are wedded to this broadcast model that are connected tothese, you know this ad agency model just aren't relevant. And I'd like toconnect this to what we saw in the pandemic at the beginning of thepandemic. We're bombarded by many messages from big companies that saidwe are with you in these unprecedented times. And it became a joke. Andactually there was a video on Youtube that says all pandemic advertising isthe same. And they have these quick cuts and they show the music and thenarration and the words from all these companies are the same because theirconnection to human beings as being dictated by an advertising agency. Nowyou look at what are the companies that are really standing out there, Thelocal companies right through the community companies, the communitybanks that are realizing we've got to roll up our sleeves and really dosomething because so many people are suffering. James. One of my favoritestories actually comes from Houston, your town where you're from. We justhad this big ice storm, right? And my brother lives in Houston and lost powerand lost Heat and lost water for four or 5 days. And there was the BigFurniture Company in Houston that didn't lose power. And they said ifyou're cold, come warm yourself right mattress, mack mack mack man is a hero,hope to hero. And so he had thousands of people come into his store every dayhe brought in food he set up a play area for Children. He had 500 people anight sleeping at his store on the...

...mattresses. Now what does it have to dowith marketing? It has everything to do with my marketing because marketing isabout creating an emotional connection between what you do and your customers,your audience and during this pandemic especially this is a time to not onlycreate an emotional connection but become legendary. And by the way, howdid I hear about this story? It was on the front page of the new york times.If I lived in Houston I can promise you I would never buy furniture fromanybody else because of this. Amazing just generosity. And that's what I meanby human centered marketing, these big brands that are wedded to theseadvertising structures. They were built on advertising impressions, but thebrands of the future will be built on human impressions. How do we show up?And oh by the way, of course we don't trust ads, but we do trust people wetrust, you know who we trust. Bank presidents, founders, subject matterexperts, our friends, our neighbors. So this is the way the world is going. Anddefinitely the pandemic accelerated this. Many people said, Mark, thethings you predicted in the marketing rebellion book are coming true rightbefore our eyes in this pandemic. Absolutely. And when you're talkingabout mattress mack, I can't help but think I was maybe a junior or a seniorin college at the University of Houston. I was part of the American MarketingAssociation and mattress mat came and he spoke and he left a big impressionon me and the think of all the work, the good that he has done for the cityof Houston time and time again. Whether it was the ice storm or the hurricanes,I mean he's really stepped up and that's why I said hometown hero rightthere. And and you're right. It's about making this emotional connection. Andwhen you think about banking, who is that? It's the Ceo, the president, theloan officer, the subject matter expert. And you recently wrote on linkedin.When you meet somebody new, you naturally start evaluating them as apotential business contact or even a friend. And from the research thatPrinceton shared, they show that two factors, people value both our warmthand competency. And as you mentioned here, it's these big brands, theirwedded to their, their legacy advertising days. You can't make aconnection through the old mediums. So how might financial brands? Bankpresidents ceos loan officers, subject matter experts might be able to conveywarmth and competency in a post covid world that it's all about the humanconnection and the relationship and and and how might a marketing rebellion beneeded for this to actually happen? Well, there are lots of ideas in thebook is a pretty dense book, but you...

...know, thinking about banking and I havedone a lot of work in the banking world and I just know the importance of bankand banking and the and the importance of personal relationships. The firstthing is, I think one of the most powerful comments in the book was froma fellow that I know he was at Nike at the time and he said success isn'tbeing in a community, it's being of a community, right. Being in a communityis giving a donation to the United way or having your name on the littleleague team uniform. Being of the community is really getting down andhelping people at their moment of need. I have a friend and someone who I lookup to martin Lindstrom suggested that we ought to take half of our marketingbudget right now and just use it to help people and I don't think that'sthat's really far off, that's maybe the best thing we could be doing inmarketing right now. The other thing that I think is so important is we needto show up, we need to show up as human beings. So increasingly the personalbrand is the brand. I have a story in, in the book about a woman who just wasso kind to me, so nice to me at a hotel, she was the lady just standing behindthe reception desk and she became the brand for me I stay at that hotel everytime I go to teach at Rutgers University I go there because of her.She is the brand and there's no amount of advertising that could make me stayat that hotel. I stay there because of the relationship of form with her,she's my facebook friend. Right? So how do we show up in a way where were knownin the community increasingly the personal brand is the brand, especiallyfor smaller banks. Now the other thing, as we start moving out of this postcovid world, there is a special power in bringing people together and thiswas one of the most inspiring things I learned. It's sort of energized me tostart bringing people together. And I actually started an event after I wrotethis book, I thought you know what I want to bring people together, Istarted a little marketing retreat and it was probably the best thing I'vedone in my whole professional career. You know, the most human company wins.An easy place to start is to think about how do we be more human at everytouch point? How do we show our hearts are smiles, our passion, especially ourcompassion now. And one of the ways to do that is through maybe an event is tobring the community. Look, maybe you we...

...reach some sort of vaccinationmilestone and the bank says it's time to celebrate, right? So bringing peopletogether, gathering, letting them see you, letting them hear you. Those areall powerful ways that we can create a real a human presence instead of anadvertising presence. Absolutely. And when you talk about being of thecommunity versus being in the community, I see so many financial brands, a lotof community banks, a lot of credit and they still write those checks, butthat's only just one step. And you're saying we can go deeper, we can makethose deeper level connections by being of the mattress MACk is a great exampleof this. And I want to come back to this idea of the personal brand becauseto me that's where the human connections made eric cook just sharedrecently on the podcast. You know, people do business with people, peoplebank with people. And I think that this personal brand, it's been a recurringtheme Serendipitously, probably had 89 10 episodes of individuals who havebuilt personal brands in the space within this podcast, who have sharedtheir stories. I'd like to get your take on this because there's a bigdifference is you've written about in your book, known that being known isdifferent than being famous. And I think it's the idea of being famousthat tends to hold a lot of people back from even thinking about consideringbuilding a personal brand of a personal digital brand, Can you describe thedifferences of being known versus being famous and where some people might beheld back from taking that trip? That journey? Yeah, that's a great question.You know, everybody has a personal brand, whether you like it or not oradmit it or not. A personal brand is what people think of you after theyaccumulate a certain number of observations. They may think you'repunctual and creative and funny and reliable or friendly or whatever. Sothis is being created in people's minds and we have a remarkable opportunity toamplify the best of who we are through the web through social media,especially during the pandemic. We may not have the opportunity to see yourcustomers talk to our customers every month or every week, but there might bea way we can connect to them on a regular basis through social media bybeing accessible and friendly and and connected. So the truth is it's reallythe only thing that matters long term in our careers. Right. A funny littlestory I just thought of. I was asked a few years ago to be the keynote speakerat a big marketing conference, may be the biggest in the in the country. Andwe started talking for a while and the guy that organized the conference, Iknew him quite a bit and we're talking about my career and my corporate daysand I said, I have won these awards,...

I've got seven patents and I managedthis big global team and blah blah, blah, blah blah. He said, you know Mark,I've known you for about eight years and I never knew any of that stuff. Isaid, well, let me ask you something that all my achievements in my careerdon't matter to you. And this event, the only thing that matters is that I'mknown right? He said, I guess that's true. And I said if I went away for awhile and I wasn't really known anymore, you wouldn't be inviting me to speak onthis big stage. He said, I suppose that's right too. So being known inyour community is the only sustainable competitive advantage you have. And ifyou are known and your competitors aren't, you'll win. You have moreopportunities. More phone calls returned. More doors are being opened,more deals being closed because people know how you are, how you think theyhave some emotional connection to you and that's a huge benefit. Technologyhas transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop forand buy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch. If they walk into a branch at all, but yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financialbrand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robertwrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digitalgrowth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of hisbest selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now foryou and your team from amazon inside, you'll find a strategic marketingmanifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed fullof practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show, let'stalk about that because being known almost saved you specifically last yearum with with you, with your business. Exactly, but I want to go back becauseI can hear a lot of bankers, a lot of credit and leaders who are listeningright now thinking, well this is Mark, he's built the platform, but you had tostart somewhere right, like, like you just, you didn't have this idea ofbeing known out of the gate. Go back to before that time period and what whatdoes it take for someone to build that level of thought, leadership ofinfluence of even down to the local community level? Because it's not justsomething that can be done, say globally or nationally can be done evenlocally if if I'm not mistaken. Yeah,...

...well, first of all, and maybe this isone of the great lessons of my book is I didn't set up to be known in my field.I mean I stumbled around and fumbled around for years and sort of cameacross the path of of how to do it and uh would have saved me a lot of time ifI had my book back then. So that became really part of my journey, is to seehow do you become known? Is there a model? Is there a path? And in factThere is, I interviewed 97 people from all around the world, including quite afew wealth management and banking people and they all sort of did thesame for things. Now, the most important thing is not necessarily anysort of special education or special insight. Some of the case studies in mybook, they started out as homeless people. I mean they started literallywith nothing, but if you show up consistently, if you create constantcontent consistently, the path does work. I do coaching calls and a guyhired me for an hour and he said, well I can tell you that blogging doesn'twork. I said, what do you mean? He said, well in 2015 I wrote three blog postsand nothing worked now. Of course it isn't. And as you know, so what are youdoing with your podcast? Right. You are becoming known, you are creating Abrand of generosity and your intellect and your helpfulness to your audience.And I think you said you got your up to 98 episodes, 98 episodes were so closeto 100 in less than a year. Yeah, so let's see, consistency is moreimportant than genius. Right? You gotta show up, show up, show up, show up,right? And it may take a period of months, it may take a period of yearsfor your brand to really start taking off but it works, it absolutely doesand it's just a matter of being kind helpful and consistent. I want to touchon that because you, you mentioned being kind being helpful, beingconsistent. You know, one of the things that I write and teach about in bankingon digital growth, the book is the mantra help first sell second, it's soeasy to just, you know, specifically when thinking about banking just towant to sell, sell sell. But the help has to come first and a lot of timesbefore the help we even have to give people hope, hope that there's a betterfuture ahead before they're even able to receive help. And I think about likethe podcast for example, this is not about me, this is not about Jamesrobert, ley, this is not about banking on digital growth, it's really aboutbringing other people in, inviting them...

...into the narrative, whether it besomeone like Mark Shaffer or someone like eric Cook or even the dearlistener, it's I think it's come back to the point, it's being of thecommunity and building a community almost of sorts of like minds to methat's that's another area of opportunity, is for these localinstitutions to start their own podcast series. You know, before we hit record,we're talking about the town of Wimberley texas right outside of Austinand fascinating story, They have their own radio station now, because beforeit was either you could tune into san Antonio or you could tune into Austinand now they have their own little radio station and it's in the townsquare and it's in a fish bowl, like so you can look in. And a lot of that wasbecause of the floods that hit Wimberley before they knew they neededtheir little local radio station. To me, the opportunities to become known tohelp others to transfer knowledge at scale digital provides the exponentialvalue factor in that. And when I'm thinking about this, how mightpractically speaking a Ceo, a president, a loan officer, branch manager, buildthese personal brands and maybe what role might marketing play to providesome training and education to these others who it might just not be anatural thought. Practice makes perfect if you will. Well, first I do want tobuild on one of the key ideas that you had there and I think this is somethingthat is creating a lot of the angst and marketing today is this idea of helpinginstead of selling, especially if you're a public company got thispressure to increase profits quarter by quarter by quarter. And we're in asociety today, people don't want to be sold to their sick of it, they run awayfrom it, they block it, they avoid it, and if they get a whiff that you'reselling something, they're not going to walk away, they're going to run away.But if you do concentrate on coming alongside people at their point of need,which is a big thing for banking and help them understand, look, there'shope, as you said, for a better life, a happier life, A healthier life, awealthier life. And let us really show you that's a great way to differentiateyourself now in terms of how to begin. You know, again, this is quite ironicbecause I don't want to be sales E but the book that I wrote called known itdoes work. It really does. And as I look back at my career, if I had topoint to one thing that's my greatest contribution to the business world isprobably that book I get notes from people every week saying this changedmy life, this changed my business so it works. And it's been very, veryrewarding and it's basically just...

...trying to figure out what do you wantto be known for And one of the things you might ask yourself about your bank,how would you finish this sentence? Only? We That's really hard because youprobably have a lot of competition. But I will also say if you dig down deep, Ihave never had a consultant call with a person or business that we eventuallyhaven't been able to figure it out and by the way it can't be. So we have thebest service. Everybody says that right? My garbage collector says that it's gotto be really something that goes back to the D. N. A. Of your company. Whyare you there? What do you do that as unique value? What's the problem thatyou solve and how do you solve that uniquely? So it really has to startthere and once you figure that out, then you kind of know what to say andwho to say it to and where to say. And then also like I said, it means showingup consistently for a small bank. You know, I might think about instagram, Imight think about Youtube and also I wouldn't overlook some of the channelsthat are more youthful oriented, like Snapchat and Tiktok, you know, theTiktok generation, which I would characterize Typically as being under18 are very, very money minded. They are, I mean they are savers, they areinvestors, They want to go for it. So I wouldn't overlook, you know, startingto nurture relationships even down to that level now you've got to adjust tothat culture. Right? It might not mean the bank president is pop dance does ormaybe it does. So you really need to think about, where are you with thebrand? What's different about you and how do you connect in a reallyauthentic and personal way? How do you like I said, be more human in every wayin every place. And I think that's, that's where I'm most excited about thefuture here. Pretty soon. We're going to have jennifer beats Beeston on theshow. She's in the mortgage industry and has about 4.5 million views on herYouTube channel. She started it back, I want to say it was like january of 2017.So four years that 25 million views and it's, it's all by just answeringpeople's questions and you know, another, another great kind of approachto this is I can't help but think and I had him on the podcast before MarcusSheraton with they ask you answer as another way to answer people'squestions and you put people, you put other people at the center of all ofyour thinking, you put other people at the center of all of your doing andeverything falls into place. But you're right, if we keep focusing on theinternal what we need and we keep...

...position around, you said the greatservice, I call it great rates, amazing service and commoditize laundry list oflook alike features. Because banking has been exponentially commoditizedbecause of digital and Fintech is like a death by 1000 cuts to where they havethe primary focus on solving these very specific problems with this. I want tolook ahead here to the future because as you know marketing today is notabout answering one question which is which is how we can be. How can we beheard? You warn that content? You warn social media, S. E. O. It might not beenough. Even being great is not enough because the way the world is moving,it's it's kind of stacked against us. So we need a new path forward. Can yougive us a sneak peek into what this new path might look like? Which is whereyour latest book cumulative advantage comes into play because I think this iswhere it all starts to come together to get some momentum going forward onwardand upward. Yeah, it really does come together. Someone said to me Mark, youdon't realize that you've done this. But the last three books taken togetherbasically give you your blueprint for any small business or or any businessor entrepreneur to move forward. Because it really does talk about howdo you connect in these modern times? And one of the challenges as you saidis look, it is really hard to stand out. Even if you're doing your best work,you might just feel like you're getting buried James. I saw some information, Ithink there's a week or two ago about the amount of information that's onlinked in and the amount of information being published on linkedin has doubledsince the pandemic started. So arguably If your goal is to connect with peoplethrough linked in your job has become twice as hard in the last 12 months. SoI was like, you know, I want to figure this out, I'm just obsessed about this.And if you look at my career, basically, what I've been obsessing about for thelast at least 12 years is how do we stand out, how do we cut through thenoise and become the signal? And I thought, look, if you're stuck, how doyou have momentum to get to the next level? What is momentum, What does ittake to get carried forward? And I learned that there is, there hasactually been a lot of research on this, But the problem is a lot of theresearch, most of it was really started in the 1960s, has kind of resided inacademia and hasn't really been applied to our, to our lives and our businesses.So I explored this idea and there's some very, very surprising insights inthere that most momentum really starts by chance. It starts by somethingrandom, and certainly that's been true...

...for my career. So that's part of thehope of this, is that you don't need any sort of Ivy League degree or $1million dollars in the bank, that you can create momentum just by really kindof by paying attention. Sure. So it talks about being aware of where youare, what are your strengths? What could create an initial advantage thatleads to momentum? And then I also talk in the book about a new way to look atstrategy. I think this is especially important for banks when I was a youngguy growing up a business, It was about, you know, a 250 page plan and a fiveyear plan of strategy and the world moves so fast today. And we see this,especially with the pandemic strategy today, is about looking for fracturesin the status quo, through shifts that are occurring, where we can be relevantin that moment. Now, we just are experiencing the biggest fracture inthe status quo, maybe in the history of the human race, which is this pandemic,everything is changing. How we work, how we play, how we learn, how weconnect, how we date, how we teach our Children, how we work out. And all ofthese are business opportunities because there are unmet and underservedneeds. Same with banking, we need to think about what's our only we, what isour strength right now? Where are the seams? What is fracturing? How do wecharge through that scene? How do we connect and let people know you've gotthis specific problem right now, we're going to charge through and we're gonnahelp you and we're going to do it more boldly more rapidly than ourcompetitors. That's what creates value today. It's really a very different wayof looking at strategy, but it works and it's happening all around us lastMarch, I predicted there would be more startups in America than any time inhistory. This is at the beginning of the pandemic and I was right becausethere's so much opportunity and we've had a lot of business failures,tragically, we've actually had more startups than failures during thepandemic. You're right. And it does come down to that one word. It'sopportunity. And for me, the opportunity, the greatest opportunityright now is banking really comes back to what you were mentioning before.It's, it's revisiting the purpose of the organization. Like why are we hereto begin with in the first place? Have we gotten trapped into what I call thecave of complacency to where it feels safe? It feels secure, but it creates apseudo sense of security where let's come out of that cave, let's ascend tothe apex of awareness and let's look...

...behind us of where we've been, let'slook down the mountain where we're at and then let's look ahead to thehorizon line at where we can go next and put the transformation of people atthe centre over the transaction of just commoditize dollars and cents. Here'swhat I would like to hear from a bank right now, I'd like my community banks,I like the leader of the bank, maybe to make a video, maybe put it on theirsite or get it on social media and say, look, we know you're suffering rightnow, we're suffering ourselves. We've had people sick, we've had peopleexperience all kinds of tragedy during this pandemic. We know you're hurting,we know you're suffering. Maybe you can't get into a bank, let us know,call us. Do you need us to come see you. Do you need us to have a zoom call? Youknow, look, we're here with you, we're here with you. And no matter whathappens, we're going to be by your side, we're gonna get through this together,right? I want that bet more than I want to know what the latest mortgage rateis. I want to hear that heart, I want to know that somebody cares. I want abank president to say if you're not getting what you need right now, justcall me. Here's my phone number. There's nothing more important I can doright now than to show up in this community and how people get throughthis pandemic and look, you know, I'm going to do it, that's what people need.That's and you know, it goes back, who's gonna be the mattress mack ofbanking, right? Who's going to show up in their community and become legendary? Absolutely. And to me, I always in thispodcast with a very practical application, you just proceeded thequestion of what is one small simple step? Because to me, all big change,all big transformation starts with a very small simple step. That is what Ithink that everyone listening can take today, share this internally, becausethere is no better way to communicate emotion then through video and videohas become so much more simplified to communicate emotional at scale. Mark,this has been such a fantastic conversation. If someone is listening,they want to continue this conversation with you, what's the best way for themto reach out? Say hello? Obviously they can grab your books on amazon, but oneof the other ways that they can connect with you well. Sure. And first of all,James, thank you so much and thank you for actually being familiar with mywork and my books because that just made this such a joy to have aconversation like this. My name is Mark Schaefer. It's hard to remember how tospell Schaefer, but if you can remember, businesses grow, you can find me sothat businesses grow dot com, you can find my podcast, my blog, my books, mysocial media connections and lots of free stuff for businesses of every size.Thank you so much Mark and thank you...

...all for joining me on another episodeof banking on digital growth as always. And until next time be well, do goodand make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of bankingon digital growth with James robert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friendabout the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcasts orSpotify and subscribe. While you're there to get even more practicalimprovement insights, visit www. Dot digital growth dot com to grab apreview of James roberts, best selling book banking on digital growth or ordera copy right now for you and your team from amazon Inside you'll find astrategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focusthat empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans anddeposits until next time. Be well and do good. Mhm.

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