Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 5 months ago

204) #ExponentialInsights - Aligning With the Digital Experience Problem


Financial brands are becoming self-aware of their need to embrace digital, but a vast majority of them still feel they’re falling behind.

Craig McLaughlin, Chief Executive Officer at, feels they missed a golden opportunity during the pandemic by failing to ready themselves for digital transformation.

The data they need to reach the next stage of digital growth is right at their fingertips; they simply need to leverage it.

Join us as we discuss:

- Findings from Finalytics’ 2022 Credit Union Digital Maturity Index Report (1:46)

- Opportunities to empower change and align culture (15:46)

- Bridging the knowledge gap with training and education (26:38)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Craig McLaughlin


You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

The credit in website. So we analyze. You think there'll be tremendous matter work every year to go and look at fifty of them based on age or from criteria. The reality is when you look at those websites, maybe twenty percent have changed. Your reeer. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Leigh, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Leigh and welcome to episode two hundred and four of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Craig McLaughlin to the show. Craig is the CO founder and CEO of finnalytics DOT AI, the first crediting new platform to apply real time big data and machine learning and a way that can address the unique needs of perspective and current members. Craig and his team over at finnalytics DOT AI recently announced results from their two thousand and twenty two crediting in Digital Maturity Index Survey, which is exactly what we are going to discuss today. Welcome to the show, Craig. It is so good to share timmy do today. Buddy, thank you very much for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Before we get into talking some of the really the the insights that you have gained through the two thousand and twenty two credit union digital maturity index, the survey, the research, I always like to start to show off on a positive know what is good for you right now, personally or professionally. This is your pick to get started. Well. Thanks, James. We are so excited to be able to be bringing technology, a platform to bear purpose built for financial institutions to enable them to be able to grow digitally. And I say that's what's good rad so for so many years we saw third party platforms not necessarily meet the target of what a financial services institution needed to do in order to be able to grow effectively. Yep, and so at the beginning of the pandemic we we finally just bit the bullet and said we're going to build this and we hired resources set out to build it. So we're thrilled to be coming out of it and in a position where we're able to launch what we know is something that's honed by many years of working with credit unions, in particular around how they can get some digital growth. Absolutely, and you also is, as I mentioned, completed the two thousand and twenty two credit union to Digital Maturity Index survey and you're looking at it really the current state of just digital within the industry, and I was surprised, but also not surprise, that you found eighty six percent of credit unions agree that their competitive strategy is relied on on digital. But the problem is most or not well prepared to leverage digital. Why? Why is this the case? To begin with? Why do we have a knowledge and an awareness of what we need to do, but then there's a gap when it comes to either creating or capturing digital opportunities? I think what happened in the pandemic is we've really underscored the problem and the and the need for a transformation. So I think a lot of credit new leaders said maybe you would asked for or five years ago about their readiness for digital transformation, they would have answered that they were more prepared, hmm, or that they didn't...

...really see as much the priority because historically their secret sauces. They delivered this great service in a branch or Overcon it, and I've seen that over the years. You need you y owning interview leadership teams inside of credit unions and then you go and new interview members and they all would say the same thing. They talked about what a great experience it is to be part of the institution and how the people in the call center care so much and it's so nice to talk to somebody that lives their community answering the phone. And then you talk to the branch people in her stories about how their advising customers in terms of how to make the right decisions. And we heard great stories about members wanting to determine what was the right business before we kind of business type to form as they started a new business and the branch manager was over helping, Advising and guiding, and those are the experiences that people talk about about a credit new and what makes the special unique and you've got alignment across all stakeholders. The leadership team thinks that, members think that and in the staff thinks that so really great. The problem is when you transfer that over into digital you've got a pretty big disconnect. Write. The ability for a credit union to deliver this secret sauce in the digital channel just isn't there. And I think the what we've seen in the last couple of years has been this cute challenge with that right is, how do we offer this unique confronting a service the same time? What you've seen is is the growth, the astronomical growth, of some of these Finntax that have come in with a very, very clear value of reposition, a hundred percent digital in their DNA from the beginning. They didn't have to contend with any legacy infrastructure. They can just build what they know the customer needs based on their hypothesis, and they've been able to take some share and they've really set expectations really high for the consumer. MMM. So, Alvis, you got credit creding leadership teams that are they're looking at those experiences and drawing that comparison and they're no longer diminishing or second guessing and saying well, that's that's okay for them, but that's not a big part of the market. They're actually looking and saying, actually, this is a big deal, we need to get this right. So I think they're starting to look at the problem a little bit more clearly and understand that they need to change, which is fascinating to see right you see, you see these leadership teams that are now there. They're changing at the very top into these digital first leaders. So there is experiencing the pain. So I think they're they're able to more acutely identify that they don't have that digital first DNA. Yeah, because they really want it. You know, I go back to two thousand and twelve, two thousand and thirteen, two thousand and fourteen, simple was launching at that time, moving was launching at that time and I remember that we did some early studies and usability testing and even recorded the experiences to have how one could open an account in two minutes and would use that as a way to help educate, to help inform. But I always said just because you watch this video doesn't mean that you know what it feels like. You need to go out and experience this yourself. That's what makes it real. And I want to stay on this subject of experience, because you were talking about this before in your report. Only seventeen percent of respondence completely agree that they're crediting in priority ties. Is Strategy based on member experience, and I want to get your take on this when it comes to member experience, even digital experience, digital member experience. What role does culture play here? What we'll roll? I mean because you know, before we hit record we were talking about human transformation alongside digital transformation, human transformation being the cultural aspect. But how does culture play into all of this?...

Culture is everything, they say, culture each strategy for breakfast, and it's absolutely true, which you know. We talked about changing people, and I think what changes people is great leadership. When you talk about doing large scale tips transformation, the challenge oftentimes is with the CEO right it's getting the CEO to see a vision of the future and articulate that to staff and commit the resources needed to be able to execute those strategies. And then, most importantly, I think, it's to act as a blocker, because you need to understand you're trying to change our organization that inherently isn't predisposed to change. The problem in doing transformation and organizations like that is you've got great people that are committed, the care about the member but change isn't really kind of deeply embedded in their DNA. And so that's where the see go or the executive team, based on the direction, the vision of the CEO Culture Values, then needs to go through an act as a blocker and say look, I get it, you've done this Becos that you've done this job the same way for a lot of years. However, we're going to change now, and I know there's a lie, I know it's uncomfortable and there's are a lot of reasons why you don't want to change, but in order for us to execute the strategy that we have, we need you to get on board and be supportive of this this new digital first environment, which also is a challenge to you, because most credit unions are structured as silos. So you've got lending as a department, you've got hrs a department, you've got it as a department, marketing as a department. Where does digital sit? And for a long time we said, well, you know, it's in marketing because it's member face. And then we said, well, put marketing doesn't have the technics produced, so it's got to be an item right and then and then we looked with some well, but it is really focused on uptime and trying to distribute limited resources and limit risk. They're not focused on on how to delight the member. How can we balance that? And let me think. We came up with e businesses as a phrase for a long time and so, well, that's the role. The e business was kind of subordinate to the rest of the organization. Correct. They were kind of was kind of it was kind of like a glamorous role that you didn't really have deep responsibility. You couldn't make change when the business leader came and said, look, we want to do this, this this big initiative, we need your support, and the it then or marketing team, came and said we'd like to do that too. However, do you want to keep the systems up and running, because we those are more important. It was hard to make change and so that's why I continue to come back to it's the CEO that has to come in and say look, this is where we're going, here's why we're going there and I'm going to coach this team into this other this other way of going about it. I like that analogy of coaching the team, of guiding the team, of leading the team, because I think that there's a big difference between leadership in management. Leadership looks out into the future and says, Hey, this is where the opportunity is. So there's some awareness, there's some clarity, let's go here, and then management helps to execute against that. One of the things that you noted in the report as well was fourteen percent of credit unions completely agree, and just it's just fourteen percent. So if you do the inverse, it's eighty six percent do not agree. They have the appropriate flexible, iterative and collaborative approach to execute a digital strategies, this idea of agile, of being nimble, of being quick. There's culture, there's leadership. What are some specific opportunities to empower? I think first and foremost individuals and then teams and ultimately then the organization, because transformation happens from within this self. Then the team, than the or because organomative of teams which are mad up of individuals. What are the opportunities to empower individuals to be more nimble, to be more agile, to be more...

...adaptive in a world of exponential change. I take a page out of the book, from any of the fin texts, and I look at how they're structured and they are small teams that have very, very clear objectives and marching orders and they're able to have some autonomy and they're be able to build the culture around what they're trying to do, and I think that's a big deal. And so it continue to think it's about leaders from and how do you structure your teams so that people feel like they have ownership and and they have the tools required in order to be able to execute change? And then I think there's probably a couple pieces right. You've got, I know you. There's you talk about personas and journeys and I think that that's kind of where the rubber meets throughout is understanding who, which members are we talking about? Who are they? What makes them tick? How do we deal empathy for them and deeply understand them? And then how do we then combine that analysis with what do we want these members to go on a journey, to do with us, to solve what the what their pain points are, what are the right things we'd want to advise them to do, and we finally learn a lot of that from talking to branch people. Yeah, and just, you know, hearing what are people coming in and asking about? Can you walk me through these processes that you're executing and a lot of times, please find is it? It's if we want to optimize the public basing digital experience, which means, you know, that's kind of the sexy stuff, which is beautiful design and intuitive experiences. that the drive to conversion, you need everything underneath the surface to be in a position where that can work, which means more than just open apis. There's got to be systems that can support that automated process and as movement. When you go into the French team, you find that there is twelve different systems that some of these people work within in order to xcute tasks, and they're very, very good at these kind of, you know, green screen environments where they can tab between twelve different systems to get something done. That's really hard to automate. So you've got to kind of two sides the equation. You need at you want us a public based experience, how do you how do you deliver that from member of the second is how do we optimize internal process used to be able to support those experiences? Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin text who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. Visit Digital growthcom slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future, your digital growth potential. Now back to the show. It's a front stage and a backstage opportunity, you know, because the front stage, the member facing, customer facing experience, is only going to be as positive or as strong as the backstage, will call it, employee experience. There were tapping back into the whole cultural aspect here. What can we do to empower those internal teams to maybe go from twelve systems and simplify the complexity in their life? I think that does come down to alignment of the team, and so we're going to get down to a client of ours and some in California and a couple couple weeks and work with their board on on this vision for the challenges. You've got to have that kind of the big commitment where it's a big investment to be able to invest in those technologies to be able to move the organization forward, which means, you see, you're gonna have to give up a little bit on on efficiency ratios and and make some long term...

...strategic investments to be able to get the credit union into a place where it can it can be competitive in the digital for a future. You got to help alignment there. That's the that's kind of, you know, that's the CEO's job, as do you get everybody aligned on the vision at the board level, get leadership teams aligned round how to execute that and bring people bring people together. So I think those are are some of the big objectives and I think that the big you know we like to say is kind of the elephant in the room, is that you can read the Chea leaves on on any strategy based on data. So at the end of it, at the end of anything you've done, you should be able to have access to enough data insights to be able to see what's actually working and what's not working. Where people going, where they clicking on? What are they will at Hellong it they staying? There's a ton of inteling you can you can you can grab there that that has, frankly, hasn't been tapped into enough by by credit unions. But if they had that opportunity to do it in a branch or on the phone, all those metrics are in place. There's all kinds of great data around how people are using branches in the phone system. But they're just isn't that level of kind of sophistication the digital channel yet, and that's worth Intex I think are killing it because they that's that they depend, they live and breathe based on on data for performance and just credits aren't there yet. Let's stay on the subject of data. That that idea of low hanging fruit opportunities that are available to either create or capture things that we're not doing today. What might be one or two of those elements that we could just they're ripe, they're ready to pluck off the tree, but either a, we don't have the awareness that they exist or be we just won't have the cultural support alignment by and to make that a reality. For that you're listener for context and to get really practical here. What might be one or two opportunities that we could focus on when it comes to data the fundamental level, every credit we analyze the top fifty credit union websites every year and we we look at it based on on I think six or eight different criteria to determine how strong it is and we rank them in each category and we're able to identify winners. We say crediting and acts as a leadering user experience, that this one is you a leader in terms of you data, their visual design experiit and then we ultimately we bubble up like the ultimate winner across all those categories. From they'll tell you anecdoting what we find is the crediting and websites that we analyze. You think there'd be tremendous matter work every year to go and look at fifty of them based on age or from criteria. The reality is when you look at those websites, maybe twenty percent have changed your reeer. So and by the way, every one of those websites, the every user gets the same set of content regardless of who they are. That means for, in some cases three to five years. The same message is delivered to every single one of those members. It doesn't change and and that's where you take it back to that your lowhanging through is personalizing that experience, doing even the the the lightest of segmentation to say hey, we actually have five primary types of users here and of those five primary types of users, here is the content that's most relevant to those people. Yes, that's good low hanging fruit. Now we built phinalytics at AI as a platform to do that, using artificial intelligence and machine learning to say, but we don't want to depend on segmentations that we did a year ago, three years ago. From a personal perspective way, want it in real time to monitor behavior and, based on behavior, present the right content, the right use of the right moment. So we think we've got a platform that will enable a credit union very quickly just jump in and turn something on that doesn't require lots of work on their side to begin to output those experiences that are targeted. I really like this as a super practical example right here and one that I wrote... in banking on digital growth, framed around building a website that sells not just a glorified online brochure. It just sits there. It you know, we do it and then we move on to the next thing. But it through AI, through automation. This digital experience gets even smarter the more that others use it to provide recommendations, to provide guidance, to provide insight, just like we would do in a physical, real world facetoface experience or over the phone experience. We're now able to do that digitally to really educate and empower others. Thinking about this example, because the I think, the more that we provide that contextual guidance, that contextual insight, that content, there's a higher propensity for conversion. It's what I speak to is help first and sell second, because you know, money is confusing, it's complex, it's overwhelming. What what could prevent a financial brand from realizing this reality here of this very simple but very powerful, practical example of contextualized personalization, content, recommendations, because this can have major, major positive impact on the bottom line. But what's going to hold them back? Their teams? We have clients that are that are a couple billion and assets and there is an alignment on the problem definition and as a result, Credit Union will spend twenty four months not wanting to change and then disagreeing around the prayer tation is predisation of the changes, definition of the problem is crucial and holding people accountable towards business outcomes is equally as important. It's a in a lot of ways. It's getting out of your comfort zone and really pushing to make change. That's hard. How was it credit union CEO who's not, you know, classically trained in digital going to come in and really kind of lead that? Yeah, and then, and then, even worse, how does somebody from the outside come in and, maybe, having that experience, begin to try to change organization that has done the same thing the same way for a really long time? Those are those are tough things. I also would add on to that, though, and I would say that there is something interesting there if you take a step back from the entire problem for a second and you just say, well, if you we're going to try and make changes somewhere and you could improve something. The the the application process, is something that if you just spend your time there and you found a way to optimize that and you looked at every question, you're asking a perspective. Member or existing member looking to apply for an additional product. How could you make that easier? And if you just ask that question over and over again, you iterated every month for a year and you said, how could we make this one part of the process more intuitive, a little bit easier with prepopulated fields, we go a long way. It really would. And I like this idea of prioritizing, stepping back, looking at the holistic picture and what I frame as TLC. We all need a little TLC in our life. Not tend to loving care, but we all need some traffic, we all need some leads, we all need some conversions, and I think it's so easy to want to solve the problem by driving more traffic at the top of the funnel. But what in reality does that? That increases the complexity and also increases the cost, because if we're not, you know, generating leads in the middle of the funnel, yet alone converting what we already have coming through, it's like grains of sand, you know, falling through our hands on the beach. We can pick it up and then it's just going to fall through on the other side. And I like this idea of optimizing applications or really what Google frames as the true moment of truth of conversion. The shopping card experience, because we see a band. It rates is high as eighty five, ninety,...

...ninety two, ninety five percent, depending upon the product line. And when we do secret shopping studies, digital secret shopping studies of financial brands against Fintech, the fintech experience always scores exponentially higher, and particularly, I'm qualitative studies, whenever you know people able to talk through why they feel the way that they feel about an experience, and it's the simplicity of it all. We're asking typically one question, or Fintech is asking one question per screen, and it's not the overwhelming you know everything all on one screen, because that's increases cognitive load and when you increase cognitive load, conversions therefore will ultimately decline. But when we reduce the complexity, when we add just that's that one question, you know pull through and conversion happen on the other side. When you think about some of this, the these opportunities of Ui and Ux, and you mention you're doing these studies of these fifty websites, what what are you seeing as trends? That the dear listeners should be aware of that. They might be able to apply back practically within their own organizations. The big trends are. I think you're right. I think learning from what aff in tech does is really important. You know, we've done it for a long time, which is just really focus on that online account origination funnel and actially to one of the other problems people don't don't quite often pick up on early enough, is it's only hal to quation. The other have the equation is actually in risk, because what we found is we've we've seen digital teams go and do a great job of executing on that OAO flow and give the user positive enforcement and have the user really understand the the number of steps in that flow and make it a delightful experience where they feel like they they're making a progress and they can return and kind of pick up where they left off. But a lot of times we find is that, you know, compliance or risk looks and says, well, if we didn't have this one little bit of information, we're just going to auto decline. So so all of a sudden the digital guys are likely we did. We did a great job where you're just not taking any of these, these two new members. But when you peel back the onion, you realize that, Oh hey, if we did something a little bit differently over here, if we could collaborate a little bit more effectively, we'd be able to do more growth. We also find within that, you know that that really comes down to a lot of the transformation right is getting people to work together in small teams and be able to bring that. I still you look at why does that happen? You go all the way back up to leadership. Leadership has to be involved, they have to see what's going on, they have to to delegate. It's a lot's a lot of work. Yeah, I think of one organization in particularly, who's in the banking will digital growth program right now make this very proctical for the dear listener. You know, CEO red banking on digital growth. There's six billion dollar asset organization and reached out, we had some conversations back and forth and then they took thirty people through the digital growth university, sent another sixty, kind of like that, mid to high level senior leader through a book club, and then are now making baking on digital growth required reading for three hundred of their other key stakeholders internally so that they're all starting to speak a common language. Because, I think back to your point organization sometimes spend twelve, eighteen, twenty four months trying to define a problem, but everyone's talking from different perspectives and that's just once again, that's kind of a human nature. Our past experiences bring us here to the present moment and our past informs our present moment. But it's in the present moment that you know, gaining new knowledge, gaining new awareness, gaining new cleary, gaining new insight. That's the path forward to help us break free from patterns of the past. Through the work that you're doing, and you mentioned you know, you're working with a another financial brand right now, working with their board. What...

...are you seeing through helping the unaware become aware of new opportunities? How might that empower them to self actualize? Because I think of the work that we've done over the last twenty years. You Go and you do the traditional diagnostic and you do the discovery work and you make your recommendations and then there's not a lot of execution of the side because, because my gut and I'm able to start to quantify this now, there was a knowledge gap and if we can bridge that knowledge gap, that helps release, release the break in people's minds to move forward. But what are you seeing on this front of knowledge, awareness, clarity through just a training, through the education that you're doing with with boards and senior leadership teams? You know. So we've always been trying to paint the picture and I can think back to two thousand and eight, presenting at a creating and Conference two boards of directors and laying at the vision around getting digital right. And I feel like a fourteen years later, we're still advocating for a lot of the same the same same needs right. And I think that when I think of the problem, that I think of the user experience for a financial institution, the vast majority of that interaction is taking place inside of online banking. Yeah, we're and so you know, whether that's mobile or desktop doesn't really matter. But the the the the problem, I think, is that people tend to think that when they of the promin institution, they go well, we've got online banking problem, which means we need to go shopping and we need to go and find our new partner who's going to solve that, and I think the reality is when you say what's that big Ahamam and is understanding that, hey, actually, you know the online banking ventors going to give you an only banking platform and it. You know their degrees of good quality user experiences in there and there's going to be some pain in terms of getting that to work well with your core. That's such a journey everyone goes through. The problem is getting them to think larger and say actually, even if we got on, if we had the best online banking platform that there was right with the most intuitive user experience, that look beautiful and we got really, really good, good rankings. They APP store for our ability to deliver the service, it still doesn't enable us to be able to grow right and and and and secure the future of this institution. And that then becomes a question of well, why do other people grow well? And you look at fintext because they're the easiest one. Could you can also look at me be of a B of a, by the way, who just did more digital growth. They did more digital applications for new products, then they did in q one of two thousand and twenty two, and then they did all last year in our branches. So so they get digital. It's not like, you know, you were looking at like a FINTAC and saying they get it, but the big guys don't know. West Fargo and bank America and the other big guys, chase, and they're committing massive amounts of budget and teams to be able to go next to get on those things. That and they're doing quite well. But I think the fin text are interesting because they offered this really unique, you know, limited point of view on an individual product or an individual approach, and we're able to learn a lot from so I look at those guys to bring those insights and I try to get a leadership team to think of it that way. And you've got to then connect their their their excessential challenge right, which is, hey, we really clear that our member average age is going up and those assets are going to get distributed and we've got to have a plan. What is our plan? And in that plan today has to be a digital purse growth plan and and that's what that's. That's the opportunity that we see and that's why we've built fillin. It's help support that, and so it's painting that picture and getting people aligned. But it's a lot of clearing people...

...out of the way. Yeah, well, I appreciate the thinking that you've shared with us today. As we start to wrap up, Craig, I want to come back to the the crediting in Digital Maturity Index survey in the report, thinking about all of the insights that you gained and looking ahead, let's just say, over the next eighteen to twenty four months, I think a shorter horizon line is really required in this type of an environment. What are you feeling most hopeful and energized about when it comes to digital within within financial brands, within creditings, within banks? What do you feel the most hopeful about? I'm really excited that there's alignment on the problem for for the first time in a lot of years, you've got entire groups of people like the quote, the quote we've shared the beginning. Eighty six percent of the institution feels like we there's a lot more that we can do, and that's pretty good because we have to have that. For a long time we haven't had alignment that there was a need to do more in digital and I think the awareness for that it has been increasing and I think that's pretty positive. So I think the pandemic. Everyone talks about an accelerated transformation across the board and lots of different categories, but I think it really made crediting in teams come together and say, Hey, we've got to we've got to do something different here, and I I think we're beginning, based on planning cycles, to see some of that transformation come through. And I I hear it more and more than the cultural transformation bit and I and then organizational side of it. It's not about technology and just data. It's about how you change people and I think that's pretty exciting. I yeah, that awareness in those two areas is could be the keys of the kingdom right. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think back over the last twenty years, as you know, being a digital anthropologist, studying the intersection of marketing, cells, technology and human behavior, and for some reason over the last two years I've gotten way more fascinated with human behavior and the mind and looking at the mind as a quantum computer. And we could go down a completely different rabbit hole. We're not going to go there today, but you're right. I think that right there you mentioned keys to the kingdom, unlocking new pathways and locking new doors within the minds to help people just see things differently than how they saw things before, because when they see things differently, that will empower them to think differently. But just because they think differently doesn't mean that they're going to act differently. We have to bridge that gap with feeling different because you can have a philosophical idea and ideal like yeah, I get it, I understand it, but their desire to transform is not greater than their desire to remain the same, and I think that idea of feeling an emotion is is another opportunity to tap into, particularly within the the financial services space, to where feeling emotion. It's not exactly always talked about, but I think it's one. When are you thinking about human transformation, cultural transformation, it's something that we probably need to bubble up. If we're going to create positive experiences externally for people, we need to kind of do the same internally. What your take there on the idea of feeling at emotion and how that plays into transformation both within and without an organization? Huge? It's huge. I continue to think about leadership to in that kind of that capacity, because we walk into a new credit union, we visited probably well over a hundred credit union physical locations over the years and that you can learn a lot from the board room in a credit and you can you can determine kind of, you know, based on how many chairs are in the room, how many how many board members can come to those meanings. So how to decisions get made. You can determine how how modern is building. Is this an institution that kind...

...of has hasn't really done a kind of as usu or kind of a you know, or redesign or re kind of you know it redecoration of their space in two, thirty, forty years? How focused are they on security? How is that process getting in and out, to get to get badged and all that? Is it? Is it primitive? Is it is a very modern and I think those are really indigative depends of cultures. And we see the credit unions that are making big, bold moves, you know, moving from the suburbs to downtown, you know, buying a big building, redesigning at creating a space for people to really be in a physical space that is an embodiment of the the culture that the CEO is kind of laid out in his espousing. Is a big deal and it brings people together and it gets people to do think differently. So I think those are those are big deals. I want to get real practicals we wrap up here. You know, when we look ahead towards the future, all growth, all transformative growth, starts with a very small, simple step forward. What would be the next best step, that small, simple step, for the dear listener to take when it comes to just maximizing their own future digital growth potential? What should they do next? I would say bringing some external, external people to help you think about how to move forward and understand that you're probably not going to create, you know, oranges out of apples and and realize you've got to bring in, you're got to change something and get some new, New People in the mix. So I think the third party consultants are great place to begin that journey. And I think creating a safe space where it's okay to be wrong. You know, yeah, we're you know, Bezo says fail fast. I think just creating an environment where it's okay to take a risk and learn. I think those are those are those are big deal. So I'd say you've really got to be thinking about how you want to guide the organization forward. It's not about hiring someone. It's not it's not one silver bullet that's going to make this go away. It's not a new online banking platform. It's the collective of it, an organization working together, being passionate and driving forward. That's a great point. It's the dialog, it's the discussion, it's the discourse, it's kind of what you and I've been doing today and just approaching it with an open mind, approaching it with with an open heart, and this has been a fantastic conversation. Craig. What's what's the best way for someone to connect with you to continue to discussion that we started, as well as to get the the report and the thinking that that you shared through the study. You know, you have, anyone has, complete access to my calendar. If you go to finalytics DOT AI and you book schedule a Demo, you have my calendar of build of availability, can check check off and you can pick a thirty minutes lat it's completely automated and I would love to sit down chat about anything. So if you want to just just call and say hello, I'd be happy to chat with you. So feel free to go to Finilis did I and and Clicks Wild Demon and I'll feel on the call. You connect with Craig, learn from Craig, grow with Craig. Craig, this has been a great conversation. Thanks for joining me for another episode of Bank. You on digital growth, buddy. Thank you, James. I really appreciated as always, and until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Leigh. To get even more practical and proven insights, along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growthcom slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and Fintax. Until next time, be well and do good.

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