Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 3 months ago

133) #ExponentialInsights: Legacy Infrastructure Is Holding Your Financial Brand Back


ou can’t move forward if you are relying on the tools of the past.

Digital transformation is about, well… actually transforming.

But most banks aren’t just stuck in the past — they’re built on it.

That’s what Nathaniel Harley, Co-founder & C EO at MANTL , sees as the biggest impediment holding back financial brands from their digital growth journeys. 

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Why community banks need to play to their strengths
  • The need for innovation in finance
  • Why customers have higher expectations than ever

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

And I think the pandemic reallyhighlighted the resilience that some of these more traditional brands andmodels have. I think a lot of traditional brands actually grew theirprofits while a lot of the more challenger digital only banks reallysuffered for a period of time from a revenue perspective in 2022 I thinkit's also helped put a spotlight on the important role that community banksplay in their community specifically and you know this is something thatmantle has long recognized, championed in many ways why why we started thebusiness, you know, community banks, I think funded about 60% of these S. B. Aloans across the country through the pandemic right? They were there whenthey're small business customers needed them and you know, they played anoverwhelming role and really providing these p. P. P. To the to the businessesat the end of the day. Mm. Mhm. You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketingsales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings inHello, I am James robert ley and welcome to the 133rd episode of thebanking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Nathaniel Harley tothe show Nathaniel is the co founder and Ceo and mantle an enterprisesoftware as a service company, empowering traditional financial brandsto modernize and grow. In fact through mantles white label platform consumerscan open accounts at their local financial brand from anywhere on anydevice at any time in roughly two minutes and 37 seconds that speed andas a result, mantle helps community institutions raise billions andbillions of dollars in deposits every single year. Welcome to the show,Nathaniel, welcome to the show Nathaniel, it is so good to have you ontoday, I'm looking forward to this conversation here buddy, thanks so muchfor having me on before we get into digital account opening and all theopportunities available for financial brands in a post covid world, I want tojust take a step back, what are you most excited about right now personally?Professionally the pick is always yours, so I got a lot of things going on, alot of good things on the personal front actually just had my first kidabout eight months ago, so I've been really exciting watching him grow andyou know, I think on the business front, just growing a company in this sort ofpost covid world, you know, I think there's all these different dynamicsthat have changed people moving remote. How do you keep maintain culture, howdo you build a team really quickly, how do you recruit top talent? So those arefun challenges to make you know, and I think I'll speak to helping mentalultimately achieve its mission right, which at the end of the day is reallyjust expanding access to financial services and it's been awesome toreally bring on so many people across the country that are really passionateabout the problems we're solving and getting to meet so many new folks. So alot of exciting stuff, I think that's so important when you can bring anorganization around a mission around a purpose that is far greater than thenjust what the norm is. That's what gets people excited. That's what gets peopleenergized and really this idea of remote, there's a fantastic opportunityeven for financial brands to attract... talent that might not be in theirlocal ecosystem if you will when, when you look at maintaining culture,because I know that's a big, big challenge for financial brands. Howhave you done that at mantle? So at the end of the day we try to root ourculture and our values and we also try to keep our values super simple. So wehave three of them and each one is one word, number one is transparency,Number two is accountability and number three is collaboration. So we reallytry to bring everyone back to those three words will really drive people atmantle and um what were, you know, who we are as humans and and individuals.That's a great point. It's the simplicity because I mean, how manytimes the organization's even financial brands, you go and you look at theirvalues, go look at their mission and vision. It's like all of these words, Ilike the simplicity of it. But but I also really cute into the last one atthis point of collaboration. It's collaboration that I see particularlypost Covid that's going to create the far greatest value over multiplevertical multiple industries. But specifically here in financial services,collaboration is gonna be greater than competition. And that's something thatdan Sullivan I have had multiple conversations about even one episode 69.And so when you look at the collaborative opportunities forfinancial brand specifically through the work that you're doing in thedigital account opening space, looking at just we'll call it the digitalaccount opening landscape. What are some of the big trends that you'reseeing as we keep moving further into this post covid world. So community banks and credit unions,they make up 95% of all the banking institutions. Right. And we believethat they are critical to maintaining competition, but also equity in ourfinancial system. And I think the pandemic really highlighted theresilience that some of these more traditional brands and models have. Ithink a lot of traditional grants actually grew their profits. While alot of the more challenger digital only banks really suffered for a period oftime from a revenue perspective in 2022, I think it's also helped put aspotlight on the important role that community banks play in their communityspecifically. And you know, this is something that mantle has longrecognized championed in many ways, why, why we started the business, you know,community banks, I think funded about 60% of these S. B. A. Loans across thecountry through the pandemic, right? They were there when they're smallbusiness customers needed them and you know, they played an overwhelming roleand really providing these PBP to the to the businesses at the end of the day.And we've also seen that, you know, the community banking institutions, I thinkdigital transformation as a concept has really sped up Maybe 3-5 years as youknow, when you're sort of looking at it and they really started to embrace newtechnologies at the onset of the pandemic, that will allow them to makepretty significant headway in growing things like core deposits and reallyfuture proofing their businesses in expanding their customer base digitally.One great example of that, we help the bank um you know, at a New Jersey isbank called Cross River raised $250 million of deposits in just 15 days.Right? So, you know, I think as we move deeper into sort of post covid world,we'll just see an enhanced focus on more of these business bankingrelationships in 2022 I think as I said, they don't a ton of really greatgoodwill with a lot of these businesses. And now the question is all right, Likehow do I capitalize on that goodwill? How do I take a lot of theserelationships and turn them into more long term relationships? The problem iscurrently a lot of the community banks don't have online account open, Right?And those that do use legacy solutions...

...that are slow, their complicated,they're expensive, right? And the current experience is not great, 85% ofbusinesses report a bad onboarding experience with their bank. I wanna, Iwanna, I wanna pause you there because there's a couple things that I hearnumber one, it's this idea of community, um I'm a big believer in that. And whenyou look at, like you said, the goodwill that's been built up,particularly on the small business side, let's tap further into that. And I'mcurious to know on the flip side why do we have such a gap steel of communityinstitutions that have not really embraced digital account opening. I seethis a lot of times when it comes to the digital secret shopping that we'redoing and so on that it's like, you know, looking at just digital accountopening, what's what's a commonly held belief that at a macro level thisindustry has about digital account opening, that maybe you disagree withhere. So I think many bankers and, andcommunity bankers fear losing the personalized approach and customerservice that they've really built their reputation on, right and you know, inreality what we've learned and you know, a lot of this comes from talking tocustomers as well as research is the happiest banking customers are actuallyable to bank how and where they want. And that means leveraging the branch,it means leveraging online, it means leveraging mobile right at the end ofthe day. And that's one of the things we're really trying to tackle. I think,in order to compete with the megabanks, right? And the new tech companies andthe challenger banks for the digital savvy customers, It's essential thatthese community banks invest in the right technology. It's almostexistential if we do not invest, if you do not do that and you may not bearound in the next 5 to 10 years and you know, what we understand is thebest digital tools actually offer you flexibility, efficient use of dataanalytics, multi channel distribution, right. A digital experience that allowsyou to meet your customers needs real time so that you increase the chancethat they will do business with you. And I think you can, you can break thatdown into a number of different factors. I think it's investing in speed andreliability, right? Customers have a very high expectation, they should beable to open an account. They should see high up time, high conversion rates,they want to get in and out as quickly as possible. Community banks also needto play to their key strengths, right? They need to know that, you know, theone size fits all approach, that maybe the Money center banks isn't exactlyright for them. They need to cater to their customers personal needs. Andthen on the other side of it, you know, they really need to focus on tappinginto both the human to human personalized approach that, you know,they have built their business on, but complementing that with the digitalchannels and online account opening and I think that right there is atremendous opportunity to, to maybe explore a little bit further because Ihear your point and we hear the same thing, it's that fear. Uh we've builtthese relationships in a, in a world of, of, of physical, of, of brick andmortar, someone comes and sits across the desk from me, we have aconversation, but who says that we can't do that same exact, have the sametype of an experience through the digital channels. Um, we're doing thisright now, I mean, you know, we are recording, I can see you, you can seeme, it's bringing the best. So it's,...'s humanizing the digital experienceand it's not just digital alone, but it's like you said, it's, it's playingupon those strengths. I'm curious to know when, when you look at just almostthe shifting competitive at land, this landscape here and you talked about theMigas, what should be like the primary area, a community brand should reallyfocus in on if they are wanting to be competitive because I think my, my bigconcern is this historically, it's been, we're only focused on the here and thenow we're not, we're not future focus and then the future arrives far toofast. And so I appreciate the work that you and your team are doing toessentially bring the future into the present. What might be the oneopportunity, because there's so much out there, so many opportunities tolook at, consider prioritize, but when it comes to digital account opening,what's the opportunity that we should really be thinking about here? I thinkit's two things, I think it's number one doubling down and investing in thehybrid approach. Right? And really what I mean by that, and we just sort oftalked about that is, you know, investing in the physical but alsoinvesting online. But the thing that connects those two is the digitalsoftware at the end of the day, right? On being in the branch or interactingwith the relationship manager on the go doesn't necessarily mean that thosepeople are not empowered by digital software. That is the same software youwould experience online. Right? And, you know, I think what's really, wesort of saw this in the retail industry, right, where basically, there was thishuge boom of direct to consumer companies that went online, Casper, youknow, etcetera and what do we see now. Well, yeah, they grew online, but theyactually reverted and now their physical locations that people can walkinto and I think what that means is these are just different channels atthe end of the day and they play an important role for different things.The branches evolving the branches turning into more of a education hub orI need to talk to someone right or similar to call center, I can call in,it's a place you can go to really learn more or get that human interaction ifyou need to. But the online channel is really focused on the acquisition,right? If I want to go, you know, just back to the cast, for example, if I'mgoing to go buy a mattress, I'm probably browsing online, but I don'tknow what that mattress feels like. So I'm going to go into a mattress store,I'm gonna go try out those mattresses, but I'm actually not going to buy themattress at that store, I'm going to go buy it on my thumb, right? Go buy it athome. So it's really important that those two channels complement eachother in in in a big way, it's the quintessential showrooming that I thinkwas really a challenge for best buy back in the day. You know, people wouldgo and they'd show room at best buy then they go buy it online and youbring up a very interesting point because I really probably got my headwrapped around this whenever I saw the whole foods acquisition from amazon,you've got, you know, the world's largest aecom player buying physicalreal estate through whole foods, but even look at what targets done targetover the last, you know, the last quarter I think was Q four of 2020 umaround 15% of all targets revenue came from, not just mobile but from, youknow, you buy it online and then you go in and pick it up so you're right, itis the best of both worlds. It's it's not one or it's not the other, it'sabout complimenting and when you think about making this transformative shift,I'm gonna want to focus on that word here because you mentioned that thebranch, I'm a big believer that the branches going undergoing atransformation as well. Historically...

...the branch was transactional goingforward though. To me with the relationships, the branch will truly betransformational, not for the financial brand but for the relationships. I meanthat's where that coaching advisory guidance, I mean I would love to see afinancial brand build a coaching program that they meet on a quarterlybasis and sit down, This is where you were over the last 90 days, this iswhere you can go over the next 90 days. What are the roadblocks that you needto be aware of or hear the opportunities like like here's tweetsthat you can make because it's that coaching that's going to provide theaccountability for people to actually create new behaviors and patterns andand and and get to a bigger, better, brighter future. Get beyond thefinancial stress that holds them back. I mean to have and we're seeing thatthe financial jim out of the new york is doing that for example, but to toreally build that into the operational system because then the digital front,that's where all the transactions can can can then be shifted to to createmore space and time to have conversations with people. And I'mgonna come back to the point of roadblocks here looking out at thedigital account opening experience, what are the roadblocks that afinancial brand needs to be aware of? That could, you know, trip them up,hold them back, prevent them from making progress on this journey here totally. So I think that the bankingindustry today in general is just an urgent need of innovation and thelegacy infrastructure that these banks are built upon is probably the singlebiggest challenge that has really hindered and limited digital moderndigital modernization in the US. Right. And this is especially true forcommunity banks. As I said, they make up 95% of the financial institutions inthe US but they're dominated by essentially three large legacy vendors,f. I. S Spicer and Jack Henry. They've dominated the industry but theirtechnology is outdated and they've taken an acquisition approach toinnovation. What I mean by that is they've acquired all these companiesover the past few years and essentially bolted them on essentially are holdingcompanies at the end of the day. They're not product innovationcompanies at the end of the day. Right. And that lack of innovation has reallyprevented this middle market that relies heavily on these institutionsfrom growing. I think currently 43% of legacy banks are still running on asystem that was written in Cobalt and that's a programming language that'sover 60 years old user systems built in the sixties and the seventies andeighties. And it's no surprise that the gap between the community And regionalbanks and credit unions and the money center banks and the fin tax have beenwidening over the past 25 years. The deposit market share of the moneycenter banks has gone from 16% to 56%. That's an astonishing number. But howdo you solve that? Well that's when mantles comes in. And essentially whatwe do is one, we understand these core banking systems better than the coreproviders themselves and we provide them with the digital account openingsolution that gives them neo bank like efficiencies with unmatched ri. Rightand facilitating this real time core integration, giving best in class userexperience, you know, flipping conversion rates on its head, taking a20 minute process and bringing it down to two allowing you to raise hundredsof millions or billions of dollars in deposits in a short amount of time.Those are tools that community banks have not had access to previously. Andwhat we've seen is when you give community banks access to the righttools i products like mantle, they can compete and they can be successful andyou know, we obviously have have many...

...examples like that across the board,whether it's midwest Bank center who raised multi $100 million in depositsin a very short amount of time or quantico bank who has lowered theircost of funding by 90%. Um so you know, you see some pretty significant,amazing results, technology has transformed our world and digital haschanged the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever nowconsumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if theywalk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to growloans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustratingand overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, butit doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you everystep of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, banking on digitalgrowth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon insideyou'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transformfinancial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights youcan start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans anddeposits now back to the show. Yeah, you hit on a couple of points. It'sthat idea of speed going from 20 minutes down to two minutes and it's soeye opening when we're working with a financial brand in the banking ondigital growth program and we're doing secret shopping against their uh, their,their website, their account opening experience. And a lot of times I thinkit's just a lack of awareness, even a lack of knowledge, like how many on thesenior leadership team have opened an account through the current platform.That's a great practical takeaway. If you're listening to this, go open anaccount on your website um, and then go to say like a time um or an aspirationand see what that experience feels like and then just do a comparison andcontrast because you're don't benchmark necessarily gets other financial brandsbenchmark against some of these other players as well because it's the speedthat we're seeing that is making, I would say a difference right there andI just want to, I want to touch on a few of these points because I thinkyou're, you're basically hitting on like how do you optimize what you'redoing and what should you be focused on. I think number one, right? Like we justtalked about user experience in time to open an account and those things shouldbe table stakes, right? There's no reason why you shouldn't do it. I thinkthere are a few other things from a strategy standpoint that banks andcredit unions to really focus on number one less is more right. You you justbrought up chime, you go open an account on time. How many accounts areyou trying to open? They have one right? They have one account you're in there,you're through the funnel, you're opening the account, they may then onceyou're opening, try to cross the or Upsell you different products, butyou're in a customer at that point we'll let me hop in because I want tobuild on your thought less is definitely more chime and we did thisagainst a community institution and we're not going to name who theirplatform was. It wasn't you guys Just to make you feel a little better. Butthe frustration was in regards to field of membership. People were, they got soconfused that like how they they ended up in the question, this was liveobservation testing. If this wasn't a test, would you abandon and like 92%said definitely we would coming back to your point about chime less is more. Ifyou look at chimes uI uX, they're asking one question per screen. Sothey've reduced the cognitive load versus where the community institutionhistorically up to this point has taken the legacy in person paper applicationdigitized that and it's, it looks like a paper app just with digital inputfields continue. I'm sorry but I had to hop in on that point On that point ittakes 24 clicks to open an account...

Using the mental platform. Right? Thatis as good as it gets when looking at all the neo banks 24 clips so that thatefficiency you are talking about is so so important because you know basicallyand if I'm remembering this that um you know essentially for every like 10seconds you add to the onboarding experience, you increase drop off by 5%.Right? And that's that's massive. So I totally agree. I think the other thingthat you mentioned and I think it's super important is simplicity, right,simplicity is key. Oftentimes like you know, we try to present the customerwith multiple types of checking accounts or bundled accounts and allthese different things but when presented with the choice between afree account, I eat no monthly fees or a premium account. Like the customer isalways going to go with the free account right at the end of day. Andthat's honestly the single biggest determining factor when selecting achecking account from what we've what we've encountered. So I think likeproduct construction and just thinking about like, you know, I want to let onechecking account, one savings account and offer one year cd, that's where yougot to start and then obviously you can optimize for there. But that's how youstart to like really break things down in a simple way to be able to drivesome of the results that I think some of the neo banks are saying, wellyou're you're hitting on an important point because simplicity is actuallyfor for many financial brands, it's an exercise in complexity. It's a paradox.And what I mean by that, you mean, we're only going to offer our focus onthis one thing, are these two or three things? Absolutely. Well, why would wedo that? Well, because the more choices that you give, I mean there's a greatbook and ted talk by barry Schwartz, It's called the paradox of choice. Ifyou're listening, Go read the book, watch the TED Talk. It's 15 minutesbecause the the the hypothesis, the more choice that you provide, someonewith, the less likely that they are to make a choice and I'm gonna make thisvery practical. Look at a chick fil a menu historically, 66 items maybe. Nowit's nine or you can go to the bible of food, get the bible of food at thecheesecake factory and you've got like, you know, 200 choices like what do Ipick at that point? It's it's overwhelming. And so I'm with you onlike let's just simplify that this down to as few of options as possible and asa result will increase conversions on the other side. I'm sure, I'm sureyou've heard of this really hot button phrase in the industry called theamazon shopping cart like experience. I'd be curious to get your thoughts.I'll tell you my view is really quickly, it doesn't work right. It's not likewe're going grocery shopping and trying to select all these products. In factfinancial products are a highly research based set, right? Like peopledo a ton of research and they kind of know what they want when they get tothe to the website and adding all this complexity cheer point. It really hurtsyou at the end of the day. There's a big difference between buying mascaraand and getting a mortgage right? And I would say so and we had a financialbrand that wanted us wanted to get into the program um and we were goingthrough just an interview process because we're very selective and theybrought up the amazon like they wanted that functionality and I ask moreprobing questions as to like what's your, why, what value do you think?Well that's that's what we believe and I'm I'm with you. I'm like I was kindof just like that's a dumb idea. That's just a dumb idea because Yeah and soyeah and so I was like yeah you're you're just not a good fit and and wewere both happy about that because I don't think it would have worked out ifwe're not getting that like philosophy kind of aligned at the very beginning,but you're right highly researched...

...number one and we see through some ofthe research that we've done 3 to 6 months is what a buying journey lookslike. There's a lot of comparative analysis that goes off on a lot ofbenchmarking and then what you make enough deposits into a consumers trustfund that sits between their ears and that's where you're moving fromawareness into consideration and then moving them down into the purchasing.That's where you know, I think it's the zero moment of truth what google haswritten so prolifically about over the years and I'm curious to get your takeon this, you know, new account acquisition. It's something that we'regetting a lot of conversation. We have a lot of conversations with, with, withthose that we advise and coach and I hear this, we want to offer some typeof a carrot, you know, something to influence consumer behavior And I'mreally not a big fan of this because there are now so many big box financialbrands, the nationals, if you will who are offering 3500. I I actually saw ahook, a carrot For $750 and I'm like, Wow, but then you read the fine print,like that's a lot of hoops to jump through. I'm curious to get your take,you know what what and how is this, could this be a slipper slippery slopeand is there a better path for than just you know, basically trying to gohead to head on the shiny carrot. Yeah, so just in short number do notrecommend doing this. We think this is a terrible idea. Just go check out foranyone listening to this Doctor of Credit. It's a whole site dedicated togaming this exact system. Essentially what people do Is they go, they sign upfor this account, they use a credit card so they can get all those bonuspoints, they get the $750 and then they turn after three, you know six howeveralong the thing less right? So we actually think cash incentives, wecould not disagree with them more and not recommend them more strongly. Likereally what you want to do is just avoid having feast. That is a way morepowerful tool in your arsenal that the bank can utilize and honestly is thesingle biggest determining factor for customers selecting. So that would beour recommendation. You know that Doctor of Credit if you're listening, Ithink like that, you know, but I just pulled it up as we're talking and I'mlike, wow this is yeah, it's gamified and and I'm curious to know like I'mjust looking here, we've got city, we've got T mobile am Erate, we've gotCamden national Bank. So if you're listening, I think this is a greatreason why there's a better approach of like what what pisses people off, It'sthe fees, it's the fees create the pain and and if you come over and you knowwe once again we do a lot of benchmarking against time. They ontheir website in like an H. Two tag says say goodbye to hidden fees, nooverdraft, no minimum, no monthly, no foreign transactions, no A T. M. S. AndI think it's that point because when we do the research with with with withcustomers and and and just people consumers in general, why am I havingto pay you to get access to my money? Like that's where the big conflictpoint comes within their mind on the flip side though and I'm curious to getyour take on this. Okay, so like cash incentives bad. What about Bundling? Uhnot accounts but just Bundling in. We see Bundling like for example like Tmobile T mobile bundles up, I think it's like Spotify um you've got a T.And T. They bundling like you and I you know, I don't know if this is the exactbrand because I'm pretty like media, I...

...don't consume a lot of like we'vecancelled netflix, you know, Spotify is on the cutting block at this point butI'm curious to get your take on like the Bundling of like complimentary oryou know other other value adds, quote unquote, what do you think? So I I like those because it flips,it's on it, flip it it flips it on its head right essentially from penalizingthe customer for using their account or having a certain balance thereproviding value additive services. And what I think is really key to thatexample is the more value additive services you can provide. Some of whichyou give away for free, some of which you do charge work right? Becausethere's obviously inherent value in them. That's what's really important.And that's what I think creates a really positive customer relationshipand creates a dynamic where oh my bank is actually helping me at the end ofits not penalizing me for having a balance less than $1000 or whatever itis, right? So I actually I like those strategies because I think they're veryvalue additive and customers appreciate them. You know, it's good to hear yousay because its value creation not not penalization and we've started toexplore some of that with a few different financial brands like onceagain coming Bundling up like this idea of coaching um and and and making thatpart of the overall experience or there's a lot like like we've we'vecovered a lot of ground today and optimizing digital account experiences,it can really feel like a massive undertaking um which from from what Ihear that's one of the reasons like these things get delayed but I'm likethere's there's a story by Shel Silverstein thinking about your littleeight month old story by about Melinda May and it's a little poem. I said,Melinda May tried to eat the monstrous well she thought she could, she saidshe was, she started right at the tel and everyone said Melinda you're muchtoo small. That didn't bother Melinda at all. She took little bites andchewed very slow just like a good girl should. And over time Melinda May, sheends up eating this this gigantic well. And so when you look at this idea ofeating the well, eating the elephant bite by bite, How might this approach?You know, maybe it's a it's a 90 day focus help financial brands get somemomentum behind them. You gave that example before of that, that bank inNew Jersey was a quarter of a billion deposits in 15 days. So what's yourtake on that um to to get some momentum? I think they're therefore reallycrucial. Pieces of advice to take into consideration when embarking on thistrain. So number one, it's focused on best performing products and thenexpand right all of our data across our customers. Shows that Really threetypes of accounts generate 87% of all accounts open. That's the 80 20 world.Right course, your three, it's it's basically covering greater than 80%. Sowhat we recommend is that banks start with one checking one savings and a oneyear city, you can add multiple cds on the mental platform. You can addadditional products on the mantle platform all for free. Right? Andyourself. But what's important here is how do we get you live as quickly aspossible? And by starting this simplicity and then iterating on, youknow, the other 20% that's how you get a really good outcome. I think numbertwo is how do you expedite core banking integrations? Right. And specificallywith VPNS, their core core banking system providers very drastically onhow long it it typically takes. Can take anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks. Somecourt providers quote anywhere from 3 to 6 months. But what's important whenconsidering this option is real time, read and write capability with yourtechnology vendor. And so for instance,...

...there are ways to enable coreconnectivity in one week or even one day. Right. And we can provide a stepby step detailed approach and documentation on how to do that. Numberthree, consider using your vendors best practices. So this has to start withtrust and you have to trust your vendor. But what we promise our banks is thatwe will give you our best recommendation out of the box. We'llgive you our best marketing copy, our disclosures, how to set up your B S AKy CMR waterfall, uh email, re marketing configurations, what C I P tocollect etcetera etcetera. And this will allow you to capture 90% of theeconomics. Right. An automation? Just out of the box. Right. And so if youtake this configuration and we just go live with it, you're going to get 90%of the value and you can always treat post life, right? And I think lastly,and this is super important and there's often tension here, you don't want tocut corners on compliance or B. S. A. Right, because that's always somethingthat that will bite you. I think even during expedited implementations, it'sreally important that vendors work with the compliance teams to ensure there isno compromising from a regulatory perspective. Now that doesn't meanwe're not going to recommend doing non document based verification becausethat is something we do recommend. And if you look at, you know, I think eightof the top 10 banks online use this as a primary approach because this is whathelps increase conversion but also satisfies the BSA. Right? So it's notlike we're not going to recommend the most forward thinking approach is butwe do have to keep these in mind and we want the entire team to feelcomfortable that there are no roadblocks, um, you know, being thrownup in the way. So look, I think the majority of technology integrations cantake upwards of six months to go live and 90 days can seem impossible, butyou can do it and it just requires you take an agile in a more viable approach,Right? And that's the M. V P. M. V. P. Approach. That's what you do when youbuild software and if you can get comfortable with that you're going toget 90% of the returns. As you know it's not about cutting corners at all.It's about taking best practices and you know ultimately that's that's howwe can get you the best results faster and then you can iterate on the 10 to20% post go live once you have more data, once you learn etcetera. One ofthe things that I always share with financial brands in our program becauseit is it's like how is that even possible? I mean even like the idea ofbuilding a website that sells that you know that slogs on into a 12 18 monthproject. I'm like that's it's too long. We need to get something that that ideaof the M. V. P. Back out it's the 80 you know 80% rule but flip it on itshead, get 80% of the way there let's launch it learn from it and then youcan continue to grow. And and so distilling all this down when you thinkabout growth when you think about progress, progress is far greater thanperfection because perfection ends up being a cost um particularly in a in amarket where speed back to your point that you made earlier speed becomes acompetitive advantage Nathaniel. This has been a fantastic conversation. Alot of good ideas insights and even some practical things, a financialbrand can apply that if they're listening today, I want to get really,really practical here at the end. You know all progress, come back to thatpoint, all progress, all growth begins with a small, simple step forward. Onething, what would one thing be that the dear listener can take as they continueto move forward on their journey here? Just something small, not big, but whatwould that one small thing be? You should reach out to mental and let'sstart a conversation,...

...start a conversation with the mantledefinitely but but for someone else that you know what I'm not just thereyet, what's that one small thing that you could recommend to them is it, isit is it looking at like the best product mix that they have? Like likelooking at what their flow is, would it be looking at the UI UX would be doingsome type of benchmarking just to get some, I think number one awareness, buteven internally it's like helping others, helping the unaware becomeaware that this is, this is something that we should consider. Look, I thinkit has to start with user experience and I think you know, one shouldevaluate what they are currently doing if they are currently doing somethingand then they should go check out one of the big banks, like a chase and theyshould go check out one of the neo banks like a, you know, a chime orwhoever it is. Right. And just sort of see the stark difference because youcan have that, I promise you you can have that in a cost effective way thathelps your bankrupt, you know, and I think that right there, that's thepracticality, That's the exercise that I will prescribe if you will as yourdigital anthropologist, go out benchmark against the big banks againstthe fin tech and and look at just different products, But don't do it byyourself, do it with your leadership team, do it with your board even andthen sit down 30 days from now, have a conversation and compare notes in eachone of you. Kind of takes it a little bit of a different approach. What didyou learn, what worked well for you? What do you feel could be even betterlooking out of the competition, what worked well in that experience, whatcould be even better and then where's the gap? And I think it will becomevery clear very fast, will be very obvious of where you can continue tooptimize the digital account opening experience. And then at that point,definitely reach out to Nathaniel on that for those wanting to continue theconversation of what we started today. What's the best way for them to reachout to you and say hello Nathaniel. Uh so I think number one, check out oursite and just request a demo where you can just email us directly at sales atmantle dot com. Perfect, perfect. Well Nathaniel, this has been a greatconversation, thank you so much for joining me on another episode ofbanking on digital growth. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me as always. Anduntil next time be well. Do good. Make your bed. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley like what youhear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts,google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to geteven more practical improvement insights, visit www dot digital growthdot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best selling book banking ondigital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazoninside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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