Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 11 months ago

133) #ExponentialInsights: Legacy Infrastructure Is Holding Your Financial Brand Back


ou can’t move forward if you are relying on the tools of the past.

Digital transformation is about, well… actually transforming.

But most banks aren’t just stuck in the past — they’re built on it.

That’s what Nathaniel Harley, Co-founder & C EO at MANTL , sees as the biggest impediment holding back financial brands from their digital growth journeys. 

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Why community banks need to play to their strengths
  • The need for innovation in finance
  • Why customers have higher expectations than ever

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

And I think the pandemic really highlighted the resilience that some of these more traditional brands and models have. I think a lot of traditional brands actually grew their profits while a lot of the more challenger digital only banks really suffered for a period of time from a revenue perspective in 2022 I think it's also helped put a spotlight on the important role that community banks play in their community specifically and you know this is something that mantle has long recognized, championed in many ways why why we started the business, you know, community banks, I think funded about 60% of these S. B. A loans across the country through the pandemic right? They were there when they're small business customers needed them and you know, they played an overwhelming role and really providing these p. P. P. To the to the businesses at the end of the day. Mm. Mhm. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings in Hello, I am James robert ley and welcome to the 133rd episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Nathaniel Harley to the show Nathaniel is the co founder and Ceo and mantle an enterprise software as a service company, empowering traditional financial brands to modernize and grow. In fact through mantles white label platform consumers can open accounts at their local financial brand from anywhere on any device at any time in roughly two minutes and 37 seconds that speed and as a result, mantle helps community institutions raise billions and billions of dollars in deposits every single year. Welcome to the show, Nathaniel, welcome to the show Nathaniel, it is so good to have you on today, I'm looking forward to this conversation here buddy, thanks so much for having me on before we get into digital account opening and all the opportunities available for financial brands in a post covid world, I want to just take a step back, what are you most excited about right now personally? Professionally the pick is always yours, so I got a lot of things going on, a lot of good things on the personal front actually just had my first kid about eight months ago, so I've been really exciting watching him grow and you know, I think on the business front, just growing a company in this sort of post covid world, you know, I think there's all these different dynamics that have changed people moving remote. How do you keep maintain culture, how do you build a team really quickly, how do you recruit top talent? So those are fun challenges to make you know, and I think I'll speak to helping mental ultimately achieve its mission right, which at the end of the day is really just expanding access to financial services and it's been awesome to really bring on so many people across the country that are really passionate about the problems we're solving and getting to meet so many new folks. So a lot of exciting stuff, I think that's so important when you can bring an organization around a mission around a purpose that is far greater than then just what the norm is. That's what gets people excited. That's what gets people energized and really this idea of remote, there's a fantastic opportunity even for financial brands to attract... talent that might not be in their local ecosystem if you will when, when you look at maintaining culture, because I know that's a big, big challenge for financial brands. How have you done that at mantle? So at the end of the day we try to root our culture and our values and we also try to keep our values super simple. So we have three of them and each one is one word, number one is transparency, Number two is accountability and number three is collaboration. So we really try to bring everyone back to those three words will really drive people at mantle and um what were, you know, who we are as humans and and individuals. That's a great point. It's the simplicity because I mean, how many times the organization's even financial brands, you go and you look at their values, go look at their mission and vision. It's like all of these words, I like the simplicity of it. But but I also really cute into the last one at this point of collaboration. It's collaboration that I see particularly post Covid that's going to create the far greatest value over multiple vertical multiple industries. But specifically here in financial services, collaboration is gonna be greater than competition. And that's something that dan Sullivan I have had multiple conversations about even one episode 69. And so when you look at the collaborative opportunities for financial brand specifically through the work that you're doing in the digital account opening space, looking at just we'll call it the digital account opening landscape. What are some of the big trends that you're seeing as we keep moving further into this post covid world. So community banks and credit unions, they make up 95% of all the banking institutions. Right. And we believe that they are critical to maintaining competition, but also equity in our financial system. And I think the pandemic really highlighted the resilience that some of these more traditional brands and models have. I think a lot of traditional grants actually grew their profits. While a lot of the more challenger digital only banks really suffered for a period of time from a revenue perspective in 2022, I think it's also helped put a spotlight on the important role that community banks play in their community specifically. And you know, this is something that mantle has long recognized championed in many ways, why, why we started the business, you know, community banks, I think funded about 60% of these S. B. A. Loans across the country through the pandemic, right? They were there when they're small business customers needed them and you know, they played an overwhelming role and really providing these PBP to the to the businesses at the end of the day. And we've also seen that, you know, the community banking institutions, I think digital transformation as a concept has really sped up Maybe 3-5 years as you know, when you're sort of looking at it and they really started to embrace new technologies at the onset of the pandemic, that will allow them to make pretty significant headway in growing things like core deposits and really future proofing their businesses in expanding their customer base digitally. One great example of that, we help the bank um you know, at a New Jersey is bank called Cross River raised $250 million of deposits in just 15 days. Right? So, you know, I think as we move deeper into sort of post covid world, we'll just see an enhanced focus on more of these business banking relationships in 2022 I think as I said, they don't a ton of really great goodwill with a lot of these businesses. And now the question is all right, Like how do I capitalize on that goodwill? How do I take a lot of these relationships and turn them into more long term relationships? The problem is currently a lot of the community banks don't have online account open, Right? And those that do use legacy solutions...

...that are slow, their complicated, they're expensive, right? And the current experience is not great, 85% of businesses report a bad onboarding experience with their bank. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna pause you there because there's a couple things that I hear number one, it's this idea of community, um I'm a big believer in that. And when you look at, like you said, the goodwill that's been built up, particularly on the small business side, let's tap further into that. And I'm curious to know on the flip side why do we have such a gap steel of community institutions that have not really embraced digital account opening. I see this a lot of times when it comes to the digital secret shopping that we're doing and so on that it's like, you know, looking at just digital account opening, what's what's a commonly held belief that at a macro level this industry has about digital account opening, that maybe you disagree with here. So I think many bankers and, and community bankers fear losing the personalized approach and customer service that they've really built their reputation on, right and you know, in reality what we've learned and you know, a lot of this comes from talking to customers as well as research is the happiest banking customers are actually able to bank how and where they want. And that means leveraging the branch, it means leveraging online, it means leveraging mobile right at the end of the day. And that's one of the things we're really trying to tackle. I think, in order to compete with the megabanks, right? And the new tech companies and the challenger banks for the digital savvy customers, It's essential that these community banks invest in the right technology. It's almost existential if we do not invest, if you do not do that and you may not be around in the next 5 to 10 years and you know, what we understand is the best digital tools actually offer you flexibility, efficient use of data analytics, multi channel distribution, right. A digital experience that allows you to meet your customers needs real time so that you increase the chance that they will do business with you. And I think you can, you can break that down into a number of different factors. I think it's investing in speed and reliability, right? Customers have a very high expectation, they should be able to open an account. They should see high up time, high conversion rates, they want to get in and out as quickly as possible. Community banks also need to play to their key strengths, right? They need to know that, you know, the one size fits all approach, that maybe the Money center banks isn't exactly right for them. They need to cater to their customers personal needs. And then on the other side of it, you know, they really need to focus on tapping into both the human to human personalized approach that, you know, they have built their business on, but complementing that with the digital channels and online account opening and I think that right there is a tremendous opportunity to, to maybe explore a little bit further because I hear your point and we hear the same thing, it's that fear. Uh we've built these relationships in a, in a world of, of, of physical, of, of brick and mortar, someone comes and sits across the desk from me, we have a conversation, but who says that we can't do that same exact, have the same type of an experience through the digital channels. Um, we're doing this right now, I mean, you know, we are recording, I can see you, you can see me, it's bringing the best. So it's,...'s humanizing the digital experience and it's not just digital alone, but it's like you said, it's, it's playing upon those strengths. I'm curious to know when, when you look at just almost the shifting competitive at land, this landscape here and you talked about the Migas, what should be like the primary area, a community brand should really focus in on if they are wanting to be competitive because I think my, my big concern is this historically, it's been, we're only focused on the here and the now we're not, we're not future focus and then the future arrives far too fast. And so I appreciate the work that you and your team are doing to essentially bring the future into the present. What might be the one opportunity, because there's so much out there, so many opportunities to look at, consider prioritize, but when it comes to digital account opening, what's the opportunity that we should really be thinking about here? I think it's two things, I think it's number one doubling down and investing in the hybrid approach. Right? And really what I mean by that, and we just sort of talked about that is, you know, investing in the physical but also investing online. But the thing that connects those two is the digital software at the end of the day, right? On being in the branch or interacting with the relationship manager on the go doesn't necessarily mean that those people are not empowered by digital software. That is the same software you would experience online. Right? And, you know, I think what's really, we sort of saw this in the retail industry, right, where basically, there was this huge boom of direct to consumer companies that went online, Casper, you know, etcetera and what do we see now. Well, yeah, they grew online, but they actually reverted and now their physical locations that people can walk into and I think what that means is these are just different channels at the end of the day and they play an important role for different things. The branches evolving the branches turning into more of a education hub or I need to talk to someone right or similar to call center, I can call in, it's a place you can go to really learn more or get that human interaction if you need to. But the online channel is really focused on the acquisition, right? If I want to go, you know, just back to the cast, for example, if I'm going to go buy a mattress, I'm probably browsing online, but I don't know what that mattress feels like. So I'm going to go into a mattress store, I'm gonna go try out those mattresses, but I'm actually not going to buy the mattress at that store, I'm going to go buy it on my thumb, right? Go buy it at home. So it's really important that those two channels complement each other in in in a big way, it's the quintessential showrooming that I think was really a challenge for best buy back in the day. You know, people would go and they'd show room at best buy then they go buy it online and you bring up a very interesting point because I really probably got my head wrapped around this whenever I saw the whole foods acquisition from amazon, you've got, you know, the world's largest aecom player buying physical real estate through whole foods, but even look at what targets done target over the last, you know, the last quarter I think was Q four of 2020 um around 15% of all targets revenue came from, not just mobile but from, you know, you buy it online and then you go in and pick it up so you're right, it is the best of both worlds. It's it's not one or it's not the other, it's about complimenting and when you think about making this transformative shift, I'm gonna want to focus on that word here because you mentioned that the branch, I'm a big believer that the branches going undergoing a transformation as well. Historically...

...the branch was transactional going forward though. To me with the relationships, the branch will truly be transformational, not for the financial brand but for the relationships. I mean that's where that coaching advisory guidance, I mean I would love to see a financial brand build a coaching program that they meet on a quarterly basis and sit down, This is where you were over the last 90 days, this is where you can go over the next 90 days. What are the roadblocks that you need to be aware of or hear the opportunities like like here's tweets that you can make because it's that coaching that's going to provide the accountability for people to actually create new behaviors and patterns and and and and get to a bigger, better, brighter future. Get beyond the financial stress that holds them back. I mean to have and we're seeing that the financial jim out of the new york is doing that for example, but to to really build that into the operational system because then the digital front, that's where all the transactions can can can then be shifted to to create more space and time to have conversations with people. And I'm gonna come back to the point of roadblocks here looking out at the digital account opening experience, what are the roadblocks that a financial brand needs to be aware of? That could, you know, trip them up, hold them back, prevent them from making progress on this journey here totally. So I think that the banking industry today in general is just an urgent need of innovation and the legacy infrastructure that these banks are built upon is probably the single biggest challenge that has really hindered and limited digital modern digital modernization in the US. Right. And this is especially true for community banks. As I said, they make up 95% of the financial institutions in the US but they're dominated by essentially three large legacy vendors, f. I. S Spicer and Jack Henry. They've dominated the industry but their technology is outdated and they've taken an acquisition approach to innovation. What I mean by that is they've acquired all these companies over the past few years and essentially bolted them on essentially are holding companies at the end of the day. They're not product innovation companies at the end of the day. Right. And that lack of innovation has really prevented this middle market that relies heavily on these institutions from growing. I think currently 43% of legacy banks are still running on a system that was written in Cobalt and that's a programming language that's over 60 years old user systems built in the sixties and the seventies and eighties. And it's no surprise that the gap between the community And regional banks and credit unions and the money center banks and the fin tax have been widening over the past 25 years. The deposit market share of the money center banks has gone from 16% to 56%. That's an astonishing number. But how do you solve that? Well that's when mantles comes in. And essentially what we do is one, we understand these core banking systems better than the core providers themselves and we provide them with the digital account opening solution that gives them neo bank like efficiencies with unmatched ri. Right and facilitating this real time core integration, giving best in class user experience, you know, flipping conversion rates on its head, taking a 20 minute process and bringing it down to two allowing you to raise hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in deposits in a short amount of time. Those are tools that community banks have not had access to previously. And what we've seen is when you give community banks access to the right tools i products like mantle, they can compete and they can be successful and you know, we obviously have have many...

...examples like that across the board, whether it's midwest Bank center who raised multi $100 million in deposits in a very short amount of time or quantico bank who has lowered their cost of funding by 90%. Um so you know, you see some pretty significant, amazing results, technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, banking on digital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show. Yeah, you hit on a couple of points. It's that idea of speed going from 20 minutes down to two minutes and it's so eye opening when we're working with a financial brand in the banking on digital growth program and we're doing secret shopping against their uh, their, their website, their account opening experience. And a lot of times I think it's just a lack of awareness, even a lack of knowledge, like how many on the senior leadership team have opened an account through the current platform. That's a great practical takeaway. If you're listening to this, go open an account on your website um, and then go to say like a time um or an aspiration and see what that experience feels like and then just do a comparison and contrast because you're don't benchmark necessarily gets other financial brands benchmark against some of these other players as well because it's the speed that we're seeing that is making, I would say a difference right there and I just want to, I want to touch on a few of these points because I think you're, you're basically hitting on like how do you optimize what you're doing and what should you be focused on. I think number one, right? Like we just talked about user experience in time to open an account and those things should be table stakes, right? There's no reason why you shouldn't do it. I think there are a few other things from a strategy standpoint that banks and credit unions to really focus on number one less is more right. You you just brought up chime, you go open an account on time. How many accounts are you trying to open? They have one right? They have one account you're in there, you're through the funnel, you're opening the account, they may then once you're opening, try to cross the or Upsell you different products, but you're in a customer at that point we'll let me hop in because I want to build on your thought less is definitely more chime and we did this against a community institution and we're not going to name who their platform was. It wasn't you guys Just to make you feel a little better. But the frustration was in regards to field of membership. People were, they got so confused that like how they they ended up in the question, this was live observation testing. If this wasn't a test, would you abandon and like 92% said definitely we would coming back to your point about chime less is more. If you look at chimes uI uX, they're asking one question per screen. So they've reduced the cognitive load versus where the community institution historically up to this point has taken the legacy in person paper application digitized that and it's, it looks like a paper app just with digital input fields continue. I'm sorry but I had to hop in on that point On that point it takes 24 clicks to open an account...

Using the mental platform. Right? That is as good as it gets when looking at all the neo banks 24 clips so that that efficiency you are talking about is so so important because you know basically and if I'm remembering this that um you know essentially for every like 10 seconds you add to the onboarding experience, you increase drop off by 5%. Right? And that's that's massive. So I totally agree. I think the other thing that you mentioned and I think it's super important is simplicity, right, simplicity is key. Oftentimes like you know, we try to present the customer with multiple types of checking accounts or bundled accounts and all these different things but when presented with the choice between a free account, I eat no monthly fees or a premium account. Like the customer is always going to go with the free account right at the end of day. And that's honestly the single biggest determining factor when selecting a checking account from what we've what we've encountered. So I think like product construction and just thinking about like, you know, I want to let one checking account, one savings account and offer one year cd, that's where you got to start and then obviously you can optimize for there. But that's how you start to like really break things down in a simple way to be able to drive some of the results that I think some of the neo banks are saying, well you're you're hitting on an important point because simplicity is actually for for many financial brands, it's an exercise in complexity. It's a paradox. And what I mean by that, you mean, we're only going to offer our focus on this one thing, are these two or three things? Absolutely. Well, why would we do that? Well, because the more choices that you give, I mean there's a great book and ted talk by barry Schwartz, It's called the paradox of choice. If you're listening, Go read the book, watch the TED Talk. It's 15 minutes because the the the hypothesis, the more choice that you provide, someone with, the less likely that they are to make a choice and I'm gonna make this very practical. Look at a chick fil a menu historically, 66 items maybe. Now it's nine or you can go to the bible of food, get the bible of food at the cheesecake factory and you've got like, you know, 200 choices like what do I pick at that point? It's it's overwhelming. And so I'm with you on like let's just simplify that this down to as few of options as possible and as a result will increase conversions on the other side. I'm sure, I'm sure you've heard of this really hot button phrase in the industry called the amazon shopping cart like experience. I'd be curious to get your thoughts. I'll tell you my view is really quickly, it doesn't work right. It's not like we're going grocery shopping and trying to select all these products. In fact financial products are a highly research based set, right? Like people do a ton of research and they kind of know what they want when they get to the to the website and adding all this complexity cheer point. It really hurts you at the end of the day. There's a big difference between buying mascara and and getting a mortgage right? And I would say so and we had a financial brand that wanted us wanted to get into the program um and we were going through just an interview process because we're very selective and they brought up the amazon like they wanted that functionality and I ask more probing questions as to like what's your, why, what value do you think? Well that's that's what we believe and I'm I'm with you. I'm like I was kind of just like that's a dumb idea. That's just a dumb idea because Yeah and so yeah and so I was like yeah you're you're just not a good fit and and we were both happy about that because I don't think it would have worked out if we're not getting that like philosophy kind of aligned at the very beginning, but you're right highly researched...

...number one and we see through some of the research that we've done 3 to 6 months is what a buying journey looks like. There's a lot of comparative analysis that goes off on a lot of benchmarking and then what you make enough deposits into a consumers trust fund that sits between their ears and that's where you're moving from awareness into consideration and then moving them down into the purchasing. That's where you know, I think it's the zero moment of truth what google has written so prolifically about over the years and I'm curious to get your take on this, you know, new account acquisition. It's something that we're getting a lot of conversation. We have a lot of conversations with, with, with those that we advise and coach and I hear this, we want to offer some type of a carrot, you know, something to influence consumer behavior And I'm really not a big fan of this because there are now so many big box financial brands, the nationals, if you will who are offering 3500. I I actually saw a hook, a carrot For $750 and I'm like, Wow, but then you read the fine print, like that's a lot of hoops to jump through. I'm curious to get your take, you know what what and how is this, could this be a slipper slippery slope and is there a better path for than just you know, basically trying to go head to head on the shiny carrot. Yeah, so just in short number do not recommend doing this. We think this is a terrible idea. Just go check out for anyone listening to this Doctor of Credit. It's a whole site dedicated to gaming this exact system. Essentially what people do Is they go, they sign up for this account, they use a credit card so they can get all those bonus points, they get the $750 and then they turn after three, you know six however along the thing less right? So we actually think cash incentives, we could not disagree with them more and not recommend them more strongly. Like really what you want to do is just avoid having feast. That is a way more powerful tool in your arsenal that the bank can utilize and honestly is the single biggest determining factor for customers selecting. So that would be our recommendation. You know that Doctor of Credit if you're listening, I think like that, you know, but I just pulled it up as we're talking and I'm like, wow this is yeah, it's gamified and and I'm curious to know like I'm just looking here, we've got city, we've got T mobile am Erate, we've got Camden national Bank. So if you're listening, I think this is a great reason why there's a better approach of like what what pisses people off, It's the fees, it's the fees create the pain and and if you come over and you know we once again we do a lot of benchmarking against time. They on their website in like an H. Two tag says say goodbye to hidden fees, no overdraft, no minimum, no monthly, no foreign transactions, no A T. M. S. And I think it's that point because when we do the research with with with with customers and and and just people consumers in general, why am I having to pay you to get access to my money? Like that's where the big conflict point comes within their mind on the flip side though and I'm curious to get your take on this. Okay, so like cash incentives bad. What about Bundling? Uh not accounts but just Bundling in. We see Bundling like for example like T mobile T mobile bundles up, I think it's like Spotify um you've got a T. And T. They bundling like you and I you know, I don't know if this is the exact brand because I'm pretty like media, I...

...don't consume a lot of like we've cancelled netflix, you know, Spotify is on the cutting block at this point but I'm curious to get your take on like the Bundling of like complimentary or you know other other value adds, quote unquote, what do you think? So I I like those because it flips, it's on it, flip it it flips it on its head right essentially from penalizing the customer for using their account or having a certain balance there providing value additive services. And what I think is really key to that example is the more value additive services you can provide. Some of which you give away for free, some of which you do charge work right? Because there's obviously inherent value in them. That's what's really important. And that's what I think creates a really positive customer relationship and creates a dynamic where oh my bank is actually helping me at the end of its not penalizing me for having a balance less than $1000 or whatever it is, right? So I actually I like those strategies because I think they're very value additive and customers appreciate them. You know, it's good to hear you say because its value creation not not penalization and we've started to explore some of that with a few different financial brands like once again coming Bundling up like this idea of coaching um and and and making that part of the overall experience or there's a lot like like we've we've covered a lot of ground today and optimizing digital account experiences, it can really feel like a massive undertaking um which from from what I hear that's one of the reasons like these things get delayed but I'm like there's there's a story by Shel Silverstein thinking about your little eight month old story by about Melinda May and it's a little poem. I said, Melinda May tried to eat the monstrous well she thought she could, she said she was, she started right at the tel and everyone said Melinda you're much too small. That didn't bother Melinda at all. She took little bites and chewed very slow just like a good girl should. And over time Melinda May, she ends up eating this this gigantic well. And so when you look at this idea of eating the well, eating the elephant bite by bite, How might this approach? You know, maybe it's a it's a 90 day focus help financial brands get some momentum behind them. You gave that example before of that, that bank in New Jersey was a quarter of a billion deposits in 15 days. So what's your take on that um to to get some momentum? I think they're therefore really crucial. Pieces of advice to take into consideration when embarking on this train. So number one, it's focused on best performing products and then expand right all of our data across our customers. Shows that Really three types of accounts generate 87% of all accounts open. That's the 80 20 world. Right course, your three, it's it's basically covering greater than 80%. So what we recommend is that banks start with one checking one savings and a one year city, you can add multiple cds on the mental platform. You can add additional products on the mantle platform all for free. Right? And yourself. But what's important here is how do we get you live as quickly as possible? And by starting this simplicity and then iterating on, you know, the other 20% that's how you get a really good outcome. I think number two is how do you expedite core banking integrations? Right. And specifically with VPNS, their core core banking system providers very drastically on how long it it typically takes. Can take anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks. Some court providers quote anywhere from 3 to 6 months. But what's important when considering this option is real time, read and write capability with your technology vendor. And so for instance,...

...there are ways to enable core connectivity in one week or even one day. Right. And we can provide a step by step detailed approach and documentation on how to do that. Number three, consider using your vendors best practices. So this has to start with trust and you have to trust your vendor. But what we promise our banks is that we will give you our best recommendation out of the box. We'll give you our best marketing copy, our disclosures, how to set up your B S A Ky CMR waterfall, uh email, re marketing configurations, what C I P to collect etcetera etcetera. And this will allow you to capture 90% of the economics. Right. An automation? Just out of the box. Right. And so if you take this configuration and we just go live with it, you're going to get 90% of the value and you can always treat post life, right? And I think lastly, and this is super important and there's often tension here, you don't want to cut corners on compliance or B. S. A. Right, because that's always something that that will bite you. I think even during expedited implementations, it's really important that vendors work with the compliance teams to ensure there is no compromising from a regulatory perspective. Now that doesn't mean we're not going to recommend doing non document based verification because that is something we do recommend. And if you look at, you know, I think eight of the top 10 banks online use this as a primary approach because this is what helps increase conversion but also satisfies the BSA. Right? So it's not like we're not going to recommend the most forward thinking approach is but we do have to keep these in mind and we want the entire team to feel comfortable that there are no roadblocks, um, you know, being thrown up in the way. So look, I think the majority of technology integrations can take upwards of six months to go live and 90 days can seem impossible, but you can do it and it just requires you take an agile in a more viable approach, Right? And that's the M. V P. M. V. P. Approach. That's what you do when you build software and if you can get comfortable with that you're going to get 90% of the returns. As you know it's not about cutting corners at all. It's about taking best practices and you know ultimately that's that's how we can get you the best results faster and then you can iterate on the 10 to 20% post go live once you have more data, once you learn etcetera. One of the things that I always share with financial brands in our program because it is it's like how is that even possible? I mean even like the idea of building a website that sells that you know that slogs on into a 12 18 month project. I'm like that's it's too long. We need to get something that that idea of the M. V. P. Back out it's the 80 you know 80% rule but flip it on its head, get 80% of the way there let's launch it learn from it and then you can continue to grow. And and so distilling all this down when you think about growth when you think about progress, progress is far greater than perfection because perfection ends up being a cost um particularly in a in a market where speed back to your point that you made earlier speed becomes a competitive advantage Nathaniel. This has been a fantastic conversation. A lot of good ideas insights and even some practical things, a financial brand can apply that if they're listening today, I want to get really, really practical here at the end. You know all progress, come back to that point, all progress, all growth begins with a small, simple step forward. One thing, what would one thing be that the dear listener can take as they continue to move forward on their journey here? Just something small, not big, but what would that one small thing be? You should reach out to mental and let's start a conversation,...

...start a conversation with the mantle definitely but but for someone else that you know what I'm not just there yet, what's that one small thing that you could recommend to them is it, is it is it looking at like the best product mix that they have? Like like looking at what their flow is, would it be looking at the UI UX would be doing some type of benchmarking just to get some, I think number one awareness, but even internally it's like helping others, helping the unaware become aware that this is, this is something that we should consider. Look, I think it has to start with user experience and I think you know, one should evaluate what they are currently doing if they are currently doing something and then they should go check out one of the big banks, like a chase and they should go check out one of the neo banks like a, you know, a chime or whoever it is. Right. And just sort of see the stark difference because you can have that, I promise you you can have that in a cost effective way that helps your bankrupt, you know, and I think that right there, that's the practicality, That's the exercise that I will prescribe if you will as your digital anthropologist, go out benchmark against the big banks against the fin tech and and look at just different products, But don't do it by yourself, do it with your leadership team, do it with your board even and then sit down 30 days from now, have a conversation and compare notes in each one of you. Kind of takes it a little bit of a different approach. What did you learn, what worked well for you? What do you feel could be even better looking out of the competition, what worked well in that experience, what could be even better and then where's the gap? And I think it will become very clear very fast, will be very obvious of where you can continue to optimize the digital account opening experience. And then at that point, definitely reach out to Nathaniel on that for those wanting to continue the conversation of what we started today. What's the best way for them to reach out to you and say hello Nathaniel. Uh so I think number one, check out our site and just request a demo where you can just email us directly at sales at mantle dot com. Perfect, perfect. Well Nathaniel, this has been a great conversation, thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me as always. And until next time be well. Do good. Make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even more practical improvement insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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