Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 years ago

51) #ExponentialInsights: Humanizing the Digital Experience w/ Jay Palter


Business leaders haven't figured out how to have productive, meaningful conversations with high-value individuals online. They still think LinkedIn is a pipe you can shove a marketing message down. In fact, it's another place to make friends.

In this episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I talk with Jay Pater, Chief Engagement Officer at Jay Pater Social Advisory, about humanizing the digital experience.

Jay and I discuss:

  • Challenges financial brands face when humanizing the digital experience
  • Building local relationships in a digital world
  • The future of influencer marketing and how to maintain those influencer relationships
  • How to strike a healthy balance between the digital world and the physical world

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

We have to learn how tohave meaningful rich relationships through our social networks and all the technology that we have, including this kind of this kind of a conversation or having you're listening to Banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toe exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I Am James Robert Ley and welcome to the 51st episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight Siri's and I'm excited to welcome J. Paultre to the show because there's a lot of insights that he's going to share today around how we can humanize the digital experience. It's a topic that's very personal to me. I'm very passionate about. Jay is the chief engagement officer at J. Paultre Social Advisory. Welcome to the show, Jay. Thank you for having me on this awesome show? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, one of the things I always like to start the conversation with is what is one thing that you were just excited about right now, personally, professionally, in this dynamic year? Well, it's been a crazy year. But I'll tell you, the return of some sports has, I think, given lots of lots of us things to at least pay attention to. So basketball is coming back and the kids are really excited. So we're gonna have some good times watching the Raptors win. There you go, sports. I mean, it's one of those things. It za communal activity. It brings people together. It's something that we could get excited about. We can share our teams on, and it's it's something that I think we've all missed over the past year. And hopefully we can get more of that as we enter into ah, whole new season together. Absolutely. One of the things that you and I were talking about before we started recording was this idea of of humanizing the digital experience. I'd love to hear from you from your perspective of just some of the biggest roadblocks and challenges that you're seeing because this has been a We'll call it a transformative year. But what have been some of the challenges that you've seen when it comes to humanizing the digital experience for financial brands through platforms like social media? Well, look, I mean, it's been an unusual year, and in many ways it's been, ah, banner year for for social media platforms, right? I mean, people haven't been going to conferences. People haven't been meeting in person and flying all over the place. So it's really challenged Any organization, any any, any... organization, any any organization that sells products and services to anybody to figure out how to use these digital networks to deliver their their product and service to deliver their pitch. And so I've certainly seen, ah, focus on social media and, you know, I mean, brands are doing it. Obviously, they've been doing it in the past. I don't know that they have done it a lot different. There's been some messaging around what's been going on, but I think what I really see as a gap in that space is still the day to day leaders of organizations. Whether it's the big brands that are delivering services to consumers, whether it's vendors who are who are selling services to them. Business leaders Have you not yet figured out how Thio how to conduct themselves day to day Andi have relationships of value online having productive relationships with high value individuals. How to do that in a way that that that grows the relationship? Because we all know business is driven by relationships. So we have to learn how to have meaningful rich relationships through our social networks and all the technology that we have, including this kind of this kind of a conversation or having Yeah, let's let's dive a little bit further into that because I'm seeing the same things and having some conversations. Even with CEOs, for example, of financial brands, they are the leader of the organization and traditionally speaking particularly the incumbents that necessarily fintech, but more so with the incumbents. The leadership looks at social as either way, it's a waste of time. Be it's, ah, security threat. And so we just shut it down for everyone, even in this this 2020 year, 2021 right ahead and right around the corner. And why is that? Because you and I know the value. We've seen it in our own businesses. But where are some of these leaders still getting stuck? And then what can be done toe help really educate and inspire them to say, You know what? This isn't so scary here some opportunities not only for my organization, but I really think for myself, the individual, the leader of the organization. Well, I mean, I think part of it is how people see those platforms, right. I mean, social network platforms can be used for all kinds of things, and people have a tendency to have a narrow view of them. My view is, a social network is just a digital social network is just another way of having relationships with people, right? And it's, you know, you could have relationships, lots of ways you could need somebody face to face over coffee. You can pick up the phone and call them and have a conversation. You could send an email message to them or you can You can log into Lincoln on a daily basis and you could go look at their profile and you could see what they're sharing today, and you could comment on that and that you know that intentional activity is actually a very personal way of having a relationship with somebody. And a lot of people don't understand that we're not. We shouldn't be just looking at social networks. This place is Thio, you know, pipes thio to shove our marketing messages, including business leaders. That's what they often do. You know, they're promoting their own company stuff. They should be using it to have relationships with people they don't...

...know how to do it. But it's a simple is that too simple is paying attention to people and engaging what you just said. It's a simple as paying a attention to people so putting the focus on others not necessarily yourself. And that could be one in one of two ways. It's you're consuming other people's ideas, insights, content, and that's gonna help toe educate you. It's gonna help to empower and elevate your knowledge, your skill set and then number two. If you are contributing to the conversation and you are putting out your own content, it doesn't necessarily have to be about yourself, your organization. It's how you can then in turn, educate and power others, and it's this whole upward elevation of, of, of, of, like, minds around common ideas. You know, when we look at this idea of, for example, linked in, I look at LinkedIn. That's a community that's a community of people. And in this digital world, post covert world we're all living in now. Community is really transformed. Take the idea of sports. It's a community activity. Community is transformed to where I'm a leader at an organization I might be in lending. I might be themselves. I might be on the executive team. What are the opportunities to take the idea of the local community? Because I can still connect with people locally, right? And build those local relationships in this digital world? Is there an opportunity there? Yeah. I mean, I think there's an opportunity online to build relationships with whoever we want to. I think the initial suggestion I'm making is that and you are echoing back. Is listening is really important. Part of that. You can't have a conversation without listening, right and and the way people think of social media is a is a one way pipe where you know their marketing message needs to get pushed down to the audience. That's where it's always business wise, excited about. But the reality is especially in B two B type businesses. You know, social networks are channel for having a two way communication that could be locally. It could be with people you know, anywhere in the world, in fact, because the world basically becomes very small on social networks on and, you know, and I, you know, I personally advocate that there are people in any ecosystem that air influential that have a lot of followers whose opinions people are listening. Thio and those people become strategically important people to pay attention to. And they may be completely outside your marketplace, maybe in different countries, and have nothing to do with it. But somebody in your world, maybe listening to that person as well and your conversation engagement with them becomes a you know, strategically valuable to you in your business. I think what you just said is really interesting, because we can get so locked into our echo chambers and you get confirmation bias toe where social media provides an opportunity to learn from others and other verticals and then bring that knowledge. Bring that thinking back into our own activities. I can think of a new instance of real world use of a couple people, particularly the commercial side, who are utilizing social to make connections with other business leaders of and maybe they do some deals. We...

...have one financial brand. So where in 2021 out of every three commercial deals that they closed had an initial digital touchpoints, that was something that they've never had because they weren't able to go out. They weren't able to do lunches and go on the golf course and and make those deals that they they had before. But I think we have to be very careful is we move down this path because one of two things is gonna happen. Either we can continue to build humanity through these digital channels or to the point of it essential article that you had shared, which is which is titled The Banking Consumer Study. Making Digital More Human. One of the things noted in this article was the rush to digital is depriving banking of its traditional human touch. Where have things fallen short as we've almost swung the pendulum from one side of the spectrum to the other. Well, look, I mean, we've had ah pandemic in a very rapid change from a traditional in person way of dealing with things to a digital way. So it's a normal. I think it's a normal reaction to that situation that we're gonna We're gonna lose some of the humanity because because we haven't had enough time to figure out how to how to do it right. They say They say the last few months have been five years of acceleration of the digital agenda. And so some of those issues, you know, we would have more time to work out, but now we still have to figure them out. So, you know, I think it's a reality that moving, you know, from branch based banking to digital banking is gonna leave some people you know with with an empty feeling because they're used to going in and saying hi to someone, and I'm not sure there's a quick fix for that. But it is a really important issue. It's a really important issue that people still wanna have personal connections with the services they use increasingly, you know, purpose is a big is a buzzword in the financial services industry that that purpose driven brands we're gonna have, you know, have a better time with with market because that that kind of takes fill some of that that humanity that people are looking for. But but even the app designed even the user interface and the whole user experience. I just think these are things that are going to take a little bit of time to work out because we realized that, yeah, we have to move down the digital road. I personally excited about that. I'm so excited about the acceleration because, you know, it lit a fire under people and they've had to respond. And then So we're you know, we're 2025 in terms of digitization, and there's no reason why we shouldn't. I mean, we could have been here years ago, but people are always, you know, I mean working on their own time, and we've got their own rationale for it. So I'm excited about that. Yeah, Z Cove. It has been a forcing function, and it's pushed us further faster than I think many of us had even ever considered going, sometimes even in our careers, and that could be very exciting. It can also be very, very scaring. But you know, this idea of humanizing the digital...

...experience I want to touch on that word experience because it is one that we're seeing throwing around a lot, you know, c x customer experience. I'm really predicting that employee experience will be the next big thing coming out of covert because it's almost like we've gotta look inwards and, you know, put our oxygen mask on first as an organization so that we take care of our people so our people could go take care of our customers. But when we look at this idea of experience, we've moved from a commoditized product economy to we're moving through an experience economy, and I really feel and, you know, you touched on this before about this idea of thought leadership. I really feel that the next level up is the knowledge economy are the expertise economy. So you're working with someone and there are a leader and they're trying to position themselves their brand. What advice would you give to them? How can I disseminate my knowledge and expertise in into the world to inspire others and and really even influence others Thio. You know people. It's those things people need toe know you before they like you like you before they can trust you. Well, this is this'll is exactly I mean, you and I having a conversation today is, in a way, a byproduct of what I what How I do it and how I advocate and help others do it, which is being social in the digital space is really important part of it. I mean, a lot of people think what you know. If you have, you have to have your fancy ideas. You have to you know, you have to be smarter than everyone in the room when you're on the Internet. There's a lot of smart people. You It's very hard to be the smartest person in the room because there's a lot of people out there with very interesting ideas and lots of experience. And so a huge part to me, I think, is listening. I mean that it's funny because if you're talking about something, I thought leadership, you're thinking about advocacy you're thinking about, you know, pushing my ideas out there and getting people to pay attention to me. But the fact of The matter is, I think one of the most important skills to learn is how toe listen strategically and effectively on social networks, both to take in the knowledge that helps inform and make and contextualized your own thought leadership. But also just importantly, to build relationships with people who you respect, whose ideas you respect. Because when you build those relationships on a personal level, those people become amplifiers for your own, for your own thoughts. They both contribute because they have thoughts. They have feedback, but they also help amplify your own vision, your own ideas. So I really believe that thought leadership in a digital social age is is a social activity. It's It's not just about sitting there, you know, like the old philosopher and writing, you know, writing your genius and then and then spitting it out. You need a community of people who care what you think. So you gotta build that community. Yeah, you have to build the community community, then leads to collaboration opportunities, sometimes even between competitors. And I think...

...that's the big thing that I'm seeing Now. Post Kobe is who once would have traditionally viewed each other's competitors are now viewing each other's collaborators, and they're making some really cool stuff. But this idea of listening I can't help but think, you know, financial brands when it comes to marketing content, strategy. They asked me, um, where do we start? And and I have an acronym and I call it You got to go all in on content And the acronym is you need to start by asking, What are people's biggest questions? What are their concerns? You need toe to your point? Listen to that. And then you need toe learn as your continuously sharing. And is this this this conversation? It's a back and forth. I'm so grateful. Toe have been in this kind of social digital spear personally, probably going back Thio 6 2007 right at the early stages, and I've seen the abs I've seen the flows, but the relationships that have been formed I mean, I even, you know, a texted Brian Claggett the other day and I was like, Man, I'm so glad that you reached out. We connected on Twitter like it was 2009 and just the relationships that have been developed and Brian I have known each other. We've spoken in multiple conferences, events, together workshops, and to see what he's been able to do in the spaces has been been fabulous and and even for you, I've been following you for for years now, it seems right. We're having this opportunity to have this conversation thought Leadership brings us to another area that I know that you've been doing some thinking about, which is the idea of influencers and influencer marketing, which is in the banking spaces. Maybe a relatively new idea and even a little bit scary to some because you're putting your brand in someone else's hand. Who has built an audience who is influencing ah community, a group of people online? Can you? Let's let's dive into that. What? What are some of the opportunities when it comes to influencer marketing with people? Yeah, that's a big It's a very big area, and it's it's often misunderstood from the consumer. Focus right, the business to consumer focus where there are people in the world who have built audiences on various platforms and you want to get them to use your product, show your products, say good things about your product, cause their audience you know will then do something related to your product by it. Use it something like that recommended to somebody That concept does is different. I think a little more subtly different in when you're talking about business to business influencers because those folks are less transactional. They're less interested in, you know, being paid x dollars tiu a post like they want. They have an audience, they have credibility of that audience. And so they're interested in information and they will help deliver your information in a way. But I What I found is that is...

...that a transactional approach is just not the right approach in a B two b setting. When you're talking about influencers, influencers are part of an ecosystem thought and of ideas. They help. You know, people who aren't sure what to do often go to the influencer network. What is so and so think. What does that person think about this idea? They follow those debates. So you, if you're selling a product or service, you wanna be part of that conversation. You want those influences to be aware that you are in the market place you wanna be, we'll have them understand your product, but not necessarily to pitch it for you. That and that's where it kind of. You mean you can go into that space and you can throw some money around. In the old days, you could hire influencers and when you have events and they could come to your event speak and that was great. But my feeling these days is that influences are a way of moving content through a network, moving ideas through network. And you have to really get to know them. And getting to know them as a leader in your company is actually the best way. And it's and it's much less about endorsed my product and much more about just know about my product just included in your view of the world, right? I mean, it's a busy, crowded world out there. Just getting people's attention is valuable. Technology has transformed our world, and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have thio because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy right Now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. I love the distinction, and I'm so glad you touch on the difference between influencer marketing and the consumer world, which it can work in consumer banking. Like, for example, I see Unify money is moving into the influencer space, but that's gonna be more on the fintech consumer approach. But on the beat a B side, whether that's small, small business services, commercial services, that's a different take. And if I look at this, we could almost kind of connect the Old World with the New World toe, where the influencer of the old might have been the C p. A in town or the financial advisor in town and making sure that you have those good relationships there. But we can take that same approach and that idea online in the digital space and get a lot more scalability out of it. Um, and I think even credibility,...

...because it's not only us who is sharing that knowledge disseminating that knowledge, but it's now those that were working with which, if we're aligned back to your point around a common purpose that makes things so much easier when we look at influence or marketing in the business space, what are your recommendations? Toe help Either a identify with B, connect with and see maintain those influence or relationships in a B two B world. Any relationship comes down to the same kind of things. If if you do things for people in your in your network whose attention you want, so if you give them attention, you'll get attention from them. If you help promote them and their ideas and their thoughts and idea, you know you will, you will get a similar reciprocal attention back. So that's a That's a huge thing is that you don't start with pushing your own stuff all the time. You start with actually listening and sharing other people's content. But, you know, you mentioned in your last comment you mentioned, uh, if you're selling something to a business audience, then there are. There are still our advisers to those audiences, right? There's accountants, there's there's lawyers. There's the old centers of influence that you would always think about, and I would still I wouldn't lose that idea there. There are communities of people who are also talking to the people you're trying to reach out to be, to be setting. And you should be thinking about those those communities and what their needs are. What are they interested in? How can you help them, You know, do what they're doing and provide advice and resources for them. So it's all about just saying yourself, Who do I care about who you know, who am I trying to attract and then providing content that serves them like this is the biggest you want content that serves the audience you're trying to attract, not the content that you want them to read about you, right? You want them to read about me, think my products great and recommend my product to somebody but you. So but how do you get that when you get that? By giving them things they watch. What do they want? What are they interested? And that earns this kind of trust and respect that they're gonna look at your stuff and say, You know, how can I share your stuff? Because you've been helping me. It's a weird. It's a just a reversal of the whole marketing mindset. It really is because what you're speaking to on the negative side of things that is really at the heart of what I define is a narcissistic marketing toe where what you're talking about is it's really a an empathetic. It's about putting other people first. It's about giving mawr than you take. Okay, I'm a banking leader, You know, I might be on the executive team. I might be the CEO. I might be in lending J. I'm really connecting with what? I get it. But this is going to take a lot of time. It sounds like, and I'm already busy. What doe I need to do to create that time... connect with people and maintain these relationships in a digital world to either produce the content, share the content. Is this something that I can push down to my marketing team? Or is it something that I'm probably gonna have to take some ownership of? And because it is my perspective that needs to be shared, What do you think? Look, I I think it's a It is a challenge. There's no question about it. I I never like to say to people It's gonna be easy, but it is gonna be worth it is what I typically say. So, yeah, I mean, I think there's a bunch of different things you have to change. I mean, the marketing mindset thinks in campaigns and digital social network relationship building is not about campaigns. It's about what you do every single day, and it's incremental and it's cumulative. So when you do it for six months, yeah, people may not pay that much attention to you, but by the time you've been doing it for 12 months on a regular basis or 18 months, people start noticing your around. They start noticing you're consistently adding value and they start paying attention. And so it's a long term gain. It's incremental. It's not campaign oriented. People need to figure out how to do it is part of their day to day work was. My argument is, if you're a business leader in a business these days where digital is important, which is name of business isn't then you need to figure out how tohave part of your day, no matter what your job is and how many responsibilities you have to nurture your social relationships on social networks because it's the more efficient way to do it. I mean, you go golfing for five hours with someone with with three other people, or you know you can take. You can take 20 minutes a day and you can touch 30 people in a micro way, and you can have those touches happening every single day of the week if you're if you're doing it right. So that kind of nurturing of relationships is a really key part of baking it into the organization and the culture, and not just thinking of it as a campaign we're going to do for a few weeks I love it. Marketing the marketing mindset traditionally is a campaign, and that historically has resulted in the expectation I do. X. I get why, sometimes instantaneously where digital content social, However you want to frame it, I'm going to call it That's habit. That's a lot to your point. It's a long term game, and it's a commitment. Just like any relationship is a commitment. You have to be committed, and I really like the point to where you tie this all together. This has to be baked in culturally. This has to be baked in operationally. And to that point, something that you had shared is well, was a Forbes article. Tomorrow's digital careers Technologists need business skills. Business People need technology skills. How can we continue thio educate to help the unaware become aware of what the opportunities are? Because, as you and I were talking...

...before, change is hard. Change is scary. Change is painful, but I believe that training and education really could help provide some clarity in tow what those opportunities are. So what's a good way toe kind of bring all of this back together to help the unaware become aware I'm listening to this, I buy into it. But now I need to take these insights and help bring this to others within the organization toe, maybe increase their level of confidence that this is a good way to go. Well, I have two answers to that. First, I want to start with this notion. There's three types of capital that drive business, and I've written about this before. There's financial capital, which we understand investments, you know, physical assets, that kind of stuff. There's human capital, which is people and knowledge. And we know that our businesses, you know, need human capital in order to grow in order to generate return on investment. And the other third type of capital is social capital and social capital. Are the relationships that we invest in the value that we build. The reciprocal goodwill that we generate through our activities that help us, you know, create new opportunities, meet new people, get referred, you know, close deals, all those kinds of things that's all social capital and digital networking and social networking. Today is a way to build social capital, so that's what you set out to do. It's not something you do once and then you're done. It's I mean, you know, you're constantly needing to grow your social capital. You're constantly drawing on it to advance your business. So I mean, how how do we change that? I think we need to make we need to stop thinking about this is a campaign to start. Thinking is a core as a core activity that we need to do as business professionals if, you know, for if we're functioning, it's 2021. In a few weeks, I mean, we're gonna be we're dealing with. They were entering the third decade of the 21st century, so it's time to get to get modern about that. And the reality is people who know this who see this are already doing it, and they, many of them been doing it for 10 years. I mean, you've talked about that yourself, so in a way it's a self selecting group of people who are saying I get it. I get that there is now a global community. I get that I get. I learn and get a lot from it makes me better professionally. It helps me get my you know, my message out so those of us who see that are using that tool and and in a way, I kind of feel like it's a survival of the fittest that way that the longer you stay away, the longer you don't pay attention to what's happening in social digital networking, the bigger the gaps gonna be to the point that which is why I said it. At that point, you're either get into this stuff or you say, Okay, I'm retiring five years because the world is getting mawr digital, more global, more social. And we need to use these tools on a day to day basis just to function in our jobs. And if you're not doing that, you're not gonna be in your job long. It's gonna become a job requirement, man. You know, you just said so much and I'm gonna try to, like, distilled this down three types of capital financial, capital, human... to me, really the opportunity in this digital world, it's the social capital, because that gives us an exponential factor. I love your analogy of you could take five hours and go play golf with three people, or you could take 20 minutes. Engage, connect like comment, share on social media, Khalfan our and connect with 30 50 people in that time frame. So there's an exponential factor. But social capital must be a cultural core competency. And really, what I think it boils down to is we're looking at this from the lens of abundance or looking at this from the lens of scarcity. And there's one person because you mentioned, like, you know, if if if you're not on board with this, well, maybe it's timeto, you know, start, you know, looking at retirement. But I have learned so much in the executive coaching program. I'm in strategic coach with Dan Sullivan. One of things he says is always make your future bigger than your past. And if there's one person that I can look at and say, follow him, he's he's done this. It's Jim Morris, you know, he's really taken this enough. Had him on the very first guest on the podcast, because he has such a amazing story of just personal transformation, which has led to personal growth. But he's always been about sharing, helping empowering others. In this game. It's it's not necessarily about Jim, it's about him helping others, and I think that's what it boils down to. I want to bring it all back to this because we can really go down our rabbit hole and we can lose ourselves in this digital world as well. And I've I have I I would say I'm a recovering Twitter addict from, you know, 2010, 11 12. It actually did a lot of personal harm to myself and to my wife, my kids at the time, my family digital leadership, you mentioned you're taking doing some things to take care of yourself. What do we need to do to strike the healthy balance between the digital world and the physical world? Well, that is a big question. And, you know, I probably much like you and many people listening. I spend most of my day in front of a computer, sitting and admittedly a comfortable chair, but not in a great position in general for my body. So I you know, my feeling is that my work is always gonna be in front of a screen and there will be some hazards associated with that. But my own mental health and my own sort of general overall health. I find I got to get out. I got to get away from the machines. I got to get away from the devices even though I carried my phones with me all the time. But I lately the way I'm sort of self caring... is walking and and getting out there and being, you know, some kind of fitness. Now I live in the far north. Usually there's tons of snow. We've been blessed with a very nice fall this year and not so much snow, but but it's coming. So my I'm stealing myself for the winter 2021. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be walking. No matter what the weather is like. I'm going to get the footwear. I'm going to get the layers and I'm gonna walk all the time because for some reason, walking just feels like the perfect way to restore balance when you're sitting in front of computer all day disconnect with the devices, reconnect with nature, it sounds like is a good way to find the healthy balance. J Thank you so much for the great conversation. I've learned a lot today. I appreciate the insights for those that are listening. What is the best way for them to really connect with you? Because that's what that's what we've been talking about. What is the best way for them to connect with you today? Well, I invite anybody find me on linked in. It's easy to find and send me a note with a little introduction. So you heard this podcast. I mean, this is this is a great way to connect with people or come follow me on Twitter, where I am also active. And yeah, I'm I'm really quite open to having conversations with people who, especially if they've heard this and have any insights or ideas they want to talk about. So come find me. I'm easy to find. All right. Well, for those that are listening, go find J connect with them linked in Twitter and is always And until next time be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley. Like what you hear? Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, Google podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even Mawr Practical in proven insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James Roberts bestselling book Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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