Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

51) #ExponentialInsights: Humanizing the Digital Experience w/ Jay Palter


Business leaders haven't figured out how to have productive, meaningful conversations with high-value individuals online. They still think LinkedIn is a pipe you can shove a marketing message down. In fact, it's another place to make friends.

In this episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I talk with Jay Pater, Chief Engagement Officer at Jay Pater Social Advisory, about humanizing the digital experience.

Jay and I discuss:

  • Challenges financial brands face when humanizing the digital experience
  • Building local relationships in a digital world
  • The future of influencer marketing and how to maintain those influencer relationships
  • How to strike a healthy balance between the digital world and the physical world

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

We have to learn how tohave meaningfulrich relationships through our social networks and all the technology that wehave, including this kind of this kind of a conversation or having you're listening to Banking on DigitalGrowth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toeexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings inHello, I Am James Robert Ley and welcome to the 51st episode of theBanking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight Siri's and I'm excited to welcome J. Paultre to theshow because there's a lot of insights that he's going to share today aroundhow we can humanize the digital experience. It's a topic that's verypersonal to me. I'm very passionate about. Jay is the chief engagementofficer at J. Paultre Social Advisory. Welcome to the show, Jay. Thank you forhaving me on this awesome show? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, oneof the things I always like to start the conversation with is what is onething that you were just excited about right now, personally, professionally,in this dynamic year? Well, it's been a crazy year. But I'll tell you, thereturn of some sports has, I think, given lots of lots of us things to atleast pay attention to. So basketball is coming back and the kids are reallyexcited. So we're gonna have some good times watching the Raptors win. Thereyou go, sports. I mean, it's one of those things. It za communal activity.It brings people together. It's something that we could get excitedabout. We can share our teams on, and it's it's something that I think we'veall missed over the past year. And hopefully we can get more of that as weenter into ah, whole new season together. Absolutely. One of the thingsthat you and I were talking about before we started recording was thisidea of of humanizing the digital experience. I'd love to hear from youfrom your perspective of just some of the biggest roadblocks and challengesthat you're seeing because this has been a We'll call it a transformativeyear. But what have been some of the challenges that you've seen when itcomes to humanizing the digital experience for financial brands throughplatforms like social media? Well, look, I mean, it's been an unusual year, andin many ways it's been, ah, banner year for for social media platforms, right?I mean, people haven't been going to conferences. People haven't beenmeeting in person and flying all over the place. So it's really challengedAny organization, any any, any... organization, any anyorganization that sells products and services to anybody to figure out howto use these digital networks to deliver their their product and serviceto deliver their pitch. And so I've certainly seen, ah, focus on socialmedia and, you know, I mean, brands are doing it. Obviously, they've been doingit in the past. I don't know that they have done it a lot different. There'sbeen some messaging around what's been going on, but I think what I really seeas a gap in that space is still the day to day leaders of organizations.Whether it's the big brands that are delivering services to consumers,whether it's vendors who are who are selling services to them. Businessleaders Have you not yet figured out how Thio how to conduct themselves dayto day Andi have relationships of value online having productive relationshipswith high value individuals. How to do that in a way that that that grows therelationship? Because we all know business is driven by relationships. Sowe have to learn how to have meaningful rich relationships through our socialnetworks and all the technology that we have, including this kind of this kindof a conversation or having Yeah, let's let's dive a little bit further intothat because I'm seeing the same things and having some conversations. Evenwith CEOs, for example, of financial brands, they are the leader of theorganization and traditionally speaking particularly the incumbents thatnecessarily fintech, but more so with the incumbents. The leadership looks atsocial as either way, it's a waste of time. Be it's, ah, security threat. Andso we just shut it down for everyone, even in this this 2020 year, 2021 rightahead and right around the corner. And why is that? Because you and I know thevalue. We've seen it in our own businesses. But where are some of theseleaders still getting stuck? And then what can be done toe help reallyeducate and inspire them to say, You know what? This isn't so scary heresome opportunities not only for my organization, but I really think formyself, the individual, the leader of the organization. Well, I mean, I thinkpart of it is how people see those platforms, right. I mean, socialnetwork platforms can be used for all kinds of things, and people have atendency to have a narrow view of them. My view is, a social network is just adigital social network is just another way of having relationships with people,right? And it's, you know, you could have relationships, lots of ways youcould need somebody face to face over coffee. You can pick up the phone andcall them and have a conversation. You could send an email message to them oryou can You can log into Lincoln on a daily basis and you could go look attheir profile and you could see what they're sharing today, and you couldcomment on that and that you know that intentional activity is actually a verypersonal way of having a relationship with somebody. And a lot of peopledon't understand that we're not. We shouldn't be just looking at socialnetworks. This place is Thio, you know, pipes thio to shove our marketingmessages, including business leaders. That's what they often do. You know,they're promoting their own company stuff. They should be using it to haverelationships with people they don't...

...know how to do it. But it's a simple isthat too simple is paying attention to people and engaging what you just said.It's a simple as paying a attention to people so putting the focus on othersnot necessarily yourself. And that could be one in one of two ways. It'syou're consuming other people's ideas, insights, content, and that's gonnahelp toe educate you. It's gonna help to empower and elevate your knowledge,your skill set and then number two. If you are contributing to theconversation and you are putting out your own content, it doesn'tnecessarily have to be about yourself, your organization. It's how you canthen in turn, educate and power others, and it's this whole upward elevation of,of, of, of, like, minds around common ideas. You know, when we look at thisidea of, for example, linked in, I look at LinkedIn. That's a community that'sa community of people. And in this digital world, post covert world we'reall living in now. Community is really transformed. Take the idea of sports.It's a community activity. Community is transformed to where I'm a leader at anorganization I might be in lending. I might be themselves. I might be on theexecutive team. What are the opportunities to take the idea of thelocal community? Because I can still connect with people locally, right? Andbuild those local relationships in this digital world? Is there an opportunitythere? Yeah. I mean, I think there's an opportunity online to buildrelationships with whoever we want to. I think the initial suggestion I'mmaking is that and you are echoing back. Is listening is really important. Partof that. You can't have a conversation without listening, right and and theway people think of social media is a is a one way pipe where you know theirmarketing message needs to get pushed down to the audience. That's where it'salways business wise, excited about. But the reality is especially in B twoB type businesses. You know, social networks are channel for having a twoway communication that could be locally. It could be with people you know,anywhere in the world, in fact, because the world basically becomes very smallon social networks on and, you know, and I, you know, I personally advocatethat there are people in any ecosystem that air influential that have a lot offollowers whose opinions people are listening. Thio and those people becomestrategically important people to pay attention to. And they may becompletely outside your marketplace, maybe in different countries, and havenothing to do with it. But somebody in your world, maybe listening to thatperson as well and your conversation engagement with them becomes a you know,strategically valuable to you in your business. I think what you just said isreally interesting, because we can get so locked into our echo chambers andyou get confirmation bias toe where social media provides an opportunity tolearn from others and other verticals and then bring that knowledge. Bringthat thinking back into our own activities. I can think of a newinstance of real world use of a couple people, particularly the commercialside, who are utilizing social to make connections with other business leadersof and maybe they do some deals. We...

...have one financial brand. So where in2021 out of every three commercial deals that they closed had an initialdigital touchpoints, that was something that they've never had because theyweren't able to go out. They weren't able to do lunches and go on the golfcourse and and make those deals that they they had before. But I think wehave to be very careful is we move down this path because one of two things isgonna happen. Either we can continue to build humanity through these digitalchannels or to the point of it essential article that you had shared,which is which is titled The Banking Consumer Study. Making Digital MoreHuman. One of the things noted in this article was the rush to digital isdepriving banking of its traditional human touch. Where have things fallenshort as we've almost swung the pendulum from one side of the spectrumto the other. Well, look, I mean, we've had ah pandemic in a very rapid changefrom a traditional in person way of dealing with things to a digital way.So it's a normal. I think it's a normal reaction to that situation that we'regonna We're gonna lose some of the humanity because because we haven't hadenough time to figure out how to how to do it right. They say They say the lastfew months have been five years of acceleration of the digital agenda. Andso some of those issues, you know, we would have more time to work out, butnow we still have to figure them out. So, you know, I think it's a realitythat moving, you know, from branch based banking to digital banking isgonna leave some people you know with with an empty feeling because they'reused to going in and saying hi to someone, and I'm not sure there's aquick fix for that. But it is a really important issue. It's a reallyimportant issue that people still wanna have personal connections with theservices they use increasingly, you know, purpose is a big is a buzzword inthe financial services industry that that purpose driven brands we're gonnahave, you know, have a better time with with market because that that kind oftakes fill some of that that humanity that people are looking for. But buteven the app designed even the user interface and the whole user experience.I just think these are things that are going to take a little bit of time towork out because we realized that, yeah, we have to move down the digital road.I personally excited about that. I'm so excited about the acceleration because,you know, it lit a fire under people and they've had to respond. And then Sowe're you know, we're 2025 in terms of digitization, and there's no reason whywe shouldn't. I mean, we could have been here years ago, but people arealways, you know, I mean working on their own time, and we've got their ownrationale for it. So I'm excited about that. Yeah, Z Cove. It has been aforcing function, and it's pushed us further faster than I think many of ushad even ever considered going, sometimes even in our careers, and thatcould be very exciting. It can also be very, very scaring. But you know, thisidea of humanizing the digital...

...experience I want to touch on that wordexperience because it is one that we're seeing throwing around a lot, you know,c x customer experience. I'm really predicting that employee experiencewill be the next big thing coming out of covert because it's almost likewe've gotta look inwards and, you know, put our oxygen mask on first as anorganization so that we take care of our people so our people could go takecare of our customers. But when we look at this idea of experience, we've movedfrom a commoditized product economy to we're moving through an experienceeconomy, and I really feel and, you know, you touched on this before aboutthis idea of thought leadership. I really feel that the next level up isthe knowledge economy are the expertise economy. So you're working with someoneand there are a leader and they're trying to position themselves theirbrand. What advice would you give to them? How can I disseminate myknowledge and expertise in into the world to inspire others and and reallyeven influence others Thio. You know people. It's those things people needtoe know you before they like you like you before they can trust you. Well, this is this'll is exactly I mean,you and I having a conversation today is, in a way, a byproduct of what Iwhat How I do it and how I advocate and help others do it, which is beingsocial in the digital space is really important part of it. I mean, a lot ofpeople think what you know. If you have, you have to have your fancy ideas. Youhave to you know, you have to be smarter than everyone in the room whenyou're on the Internet. There's a lot of smart people. You It's very hard tobe the smartest person in the room because there's a lot of people outthere with very interesting ideas and lots of experience. And so a huge partto me, I think, is listening. I mean that it's funny because if you'retalking about something, I thought leadership, you're thinking aboutadvocacy you're thinking about, you know, pushing my ideas out there andgetting people to pay attention to me. But the fact of The matter is, I thinkone of the most important skills to learn is how toe listen strategicallyand effectively on social networks, both to take in the knowledge thathelps inform and make and contextualized your own thoughtleadership. But also just importantly, to build relationships with people whoyou respect, whose ideas you respect. Because when you build thoserelationships on a personal level, those people become amplifiers for yourown, for your own thoughts. They both contribute because they have thoughts.They have feedback, but they also help amplify your own vision, your own ideas.So I really believe that thought leadership in a digital social age isis a social activity. It's It's not just about sitting there, you know,like the old philosopher and writing, you know, writing your genius and thenand then spitting it out. You need a community of people who care what youthink. So you gotta build that community. Yeah, you have to build thecommunity community, then leads to collaboration opportunities, sometimeseven between competitors. And I think...

...that's the big thing that I'm seeingNow. Post Kobe is who once would have traditionally viewed each other'scompetitors are now viewing each other's collaborators, and they'remaking some really cool stuff. But this idea of listening I can't help butthink, you know, financial brands when it comes to marketing content, strategy.They asked me, um, where do we start? And and I have an acronym and I call itYou got to go all in on content And the acronym is you need to start by asking,What are people's biggest questions? What are their concerns? You need toeto your point? Listen to that. And then you need toe learn as your continuouslysharing. And is this this this conversation? It's a back and forth.I'm so grateful. Toe have been in this kind of social digital spear personally,probably going back Thio 6 2007 right at the early stages, andI've seen the abs I've seen the flows, but the relationships that have beenformed I mean, I even, you know, a texted Brian Claggett the other day andI was like, Man, I'm so glad that you reached out. We connected on Twitterlike it was 2009 and just the relationships that have been developedand Brian I have known each other. We've spoken in multiple conferences,events, together workshops, and to see what he's been able to do in the spaceshas been been fabulous and and even for you, I've been following you for foryears now, it seems right. We're having this opportunity to have thisconversation thought Leadership brings us to another area that I know thatyou've been doing some thinking about, which is the idea of influencers andinfluencer marketing, which is in the banking spaces. Maybe a relatively newidea and even a little bit scary to some because you're putting your brandin someone else's hand. Who has built an audience who is influencing ahcommunity, a group of people online? Can you? Let's let's dive into that.What? What are some of the opportunities when it comes toinfluencer marketing with people? Yeah, that's a big It's a very big area, andit's it's often misunderstood from the consumer. Focus right, the business toconsumer focus where there are people in the world who have built audienceson various platforms and you want to get them to use your product, show yourproducts, say good things about your product, cause their audience you knowwill then do something related to your product by it. Use it something likethat recommended to somebody That concept does is different. I think alittle more subtly different in when you're talking about business tobusiness influencers because those folks are less transactional. They'reless interested in, you know, being paid x dollars tiu a post like theywant. They have an audience, they have credibility of that audience. And sothey're interested in information and they will help deliver your informationin a way. But I What I found is that is...

...that a transactional approach is justnot the right approach in a B two b setting. When you're talking aboutinfluencers, influencers are part of an ecosystem thought and of ideas. Theyhelp. You know, people who aren't sure what to do often go to the influencernetwork. What is so and so think. What does that person think about this idea?They follow those debates. So you, if you're selling a product or service,you wanna be part of that conversation. You want those influences to be awarethat you are in the market place you wanna be, we'll have them understandyour product, but not necessarily to pitch it for you. That and that's whereit kind of. You mean you can go into that space and you can throw some moneyaround. In the old days, you could hire influencers and when you have eventsand they could come to your event speak and that was great. But my feelingthese days is that influences are a way of moving content through a network,moving ideas through network. And you have to really get to know them. Andgetting to know them as a leader in your company is actually the best way.And it's and it's much less about endorsed my product and much more aboutjust know about my product just included in your view of the world,right? I mean, it's a busy, crowded world out there. Just getting people'sattention is valuable. Technology has transformed our world, and digital haschanged the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now,consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if theywalk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to growloans and deposits. We get it digital growth can feel confusing, frustratingand overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. Butit doesn't have thio because James Robert wrote the book that guides youevery step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dotdigital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, Banking onDigital Growth, or order a copy right Now for you and your team from Amazon.Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written totransform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proveninsights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times moreloans and deposits. Now back to the show. I love the distinction, and I'mso glad you touch on the difference between influencer marketing and theconsumer world, which it can work in consumer banking. Like, for example, Isee Unify money is moving into the influencer space, but that's gonna bemore on the fintech consumer approach. But on the beat a B side, whetherthat's small, small business services, commercial services, that's a differenttake. And if I look at this, we could almost kind of connect the Old Worldwith the New World toe, where the influencer of the old might have beenthe C p. A in town or the financial advisor in town and making sure thatyou have those good relationships there. But we can take that same approach andthat idea online in the digital space and get a lot more scalability out ofit. Um, and I think even credibility,...

...because it's not only us who is sharingthat knowledge disseminating that knowledge, but it's now those that wereworking with which, if we're aligned back to your point around a commonpurpose that makes things so much easier when we look at influence ormarketing in the business space, what are your recommendations? Toe helpEither a identify with B, connect with and see maintain those influence orrelationships in a B two B world. Any relationship comes down to the samekind of things. If if you do things for people in your in your network whoseattention you want, so if you give them attention, you'll get attention fromthem. If you help promote them and their ideas and their thoughts and idea,you know you will, you will get a similar reciprocal attention back. Sothat's a That's a huge thing is that you don't start with pushing your ownstuff all the time. You start with actually listening and sharing otherpeople's content. But, you know, you mentioned in your last comment youmentioned, uh, if you're selling something to a business audience, thenthere are. There are still our advisers to those audiences, right? There'saccountants, there's there's lawyers. There's the old centers of influencethat you would always think about, and I would still I wouldn't lose that ideathere. There are communities of people who are also talking to the peopleyou're trying to reach out to be, to be setting. And you should be thinkingabout those those communities and what their needs are. What are theyinterested in? How can you help them, You know, do what they're doing andprovide advice and resources for them. So it's all about just saying yourself,Who do I care about who you know, who am I trying to attract and thenproviding content that serves them like this is the biggest you want contentthat serves the audience you're trying to attract, not the content that youwant them to read about you, right? You want them to read about me, think myproducts great and recommend my product to somebody but you. So but how do youget that when you get that? By giving them things they watch. What do theywant? What are they interested? And that earns this kind of trust andrespect that they're gonna look at your stuff and say, You know, how can Ishare your stuff? Because you've been helping me. It's a weird. It's a just areversal of the whole marketing mindset. It really is because what you'respeaking to on the negative side of things that is really at the heart ofwhat I define is a narcissistic marketing toe where what you're talkingabout is it's really a an empathetic. It's about putting other people first.It's about giving mawr than you take. Okay, I'm a banking leader, You know, Imight be on the executive team. I might be the CEO. I might be in lending J. I'm really connecting with what? Iget it. But this is going to take a lot of time. It sounds like, and I'malready busy. What doe I need to do to create that time... connect with people and maintainthese relationships in a digital world to either produce the content, sharethe content. Is this something that I can push down to my marketing team? Oris it something that I'm probably gonna have to take some ownership of? Andbecause it is my perspective that needs to be shared, What do you think? Look, I I think it's a It is achallenge. There's no question about it. I I never like to say to people It'sgonna be easy, but it is gonna be worth it is what I typically say. So, yeah, Imean, I think there's a bunch of different things you have to change. Imean, the marketing mindset thinks in campaigns and digital social networkrelationship building is not about campaigns. It's about what you do everysingle day, and it's incremental and it's cumulative. So when you do it forsix months, yeah, people may not pay that much attention to you, but by thetime you've been doing it for 12 months on a regular basis or 18 months, peoplestart noticing your around. They start noticing you're consistently addingvalue and they start paying attention. And so it's a long term gain. It'sincremental. It's not campaign oriented. People need to figure out how to do itis part of their day to day work was. My argument is, if you're a businessleader in a business these days where digital is important, which is name ofbusiness isn't then you need to figure out how tohave part of your day, nomatter what your job is and how many responsibilities you have to nurtureyour social relationships on social networks because it's the moreefficient way to do it. I mean, you go golfing for five hours with someonewith with three other people, or you know you can take. You can take 20minutes a day and you can touch 30 people in a micro way, and you can havethose touches happening every single day of the week if you're if you'redoing it right. So that kind of nurturing of relationships is a reallykey part of baking it into the organization and the culture, and notjust thinking of it as a campaign we're going to do for a few weeks I love it.Marketing the marketing mindset traditionally is a campaign, and thathistorically has resulted in the expectation I do. X. I get why,sometimes instantaneously where digital content social, However you want toframe it, I'm going to call it That's habit. That's a lot to your point. It'sa long term game, and it's a commitment. Just like any relationship is acommitment. You have to be committed, and I really like the point to whereyou tie this all together. This has to be baked in culturally. This has to bebaked in operationally. And to that point, something that you had shared iswell, was a Forbes article. Tomorrow's digital careers Technologists needbusiness skills. Business People need technology skills. How can we continuethio educate to help the unaware become aware of what the opportunities are?Because, as you and I were talking...

...before, change is hard. Change is scary. Changeis painful, but I believe that training and education really could help providesome clarity in tow what those opportunities are. So what's a good waytoe kind of bring all of this back together to help the unaware becomeaware I'm listening to this, I buy into it. But now I need to take theseinsights and help bring this to others within the organization toe, maybeincrease their level of confidence that this is a good way to go. Well, I havetwo answers to that. First, I want to start with this notion. There's threetypes of capital that drive business, and I've written about this before.There's financial capital, which we understand investments, you know,physical assets, that kind of stuff. There's human capital, which is peopleand knowledge. And we know that our businesses, you know, need humancapital in order to grow in order to generate return on investment. And theother third type of capital is social capital and social capital. Are therelationships that we invest in the value that we build. The reciprocalgoodwill that we generate through our activities that help us, you know,create new opportunities, meet new people, get referred, you know, closedeals, all those kinds of things that's all social capital and digitalnetworking and social networking. Today is a way to build social capital, sothat's what you set out to do. It's not something you do once and then you'redone. It's I mean, you know, you're constantly needing to grow your socialcapital. You're constantly drawing on it to advance your business. So I mean,how how do we change that? I think we need to make we need to stop thinkingabout this is a campaign to start. Thinking is a core as a core activitythat we need to do as business professionals if, you know, for ifwe're functioning, it's 2021. In a few weeks, I mean, we're gonna be we'redealing with. They were entering the third decade of the 21st century, soit's time to get to get modern about that. And the reality is people whoknow this who see this are already doing it, and they, many of them beendoing it for 10 years. I mean, you've talked about that yourself, so in a wayit's a self selecting group of people who are saying I get it. I get thatthere is now a global community. I get that I get. I learn and get a lot fromit makes me better professionally. It helps me get my you know, my messageout so those of us who see that are using that tool and and in a way, Ikind of feel like it's a survival of the fittest that way that the longeryou stay away, the longer you don't pay attention to what's happening in socialdigital networking, the bigger the gaps gonna be to the point that which is whyI said it. At that point, you're either get into this stuff or you say, Okay,I'm retiring five years because the world is getting mawr digital, moreglobal, more social. And we need to use these tools on a day to day basis justto function in our jobs. And if you're not doing that, you're not gonna be inyour job long. It's gonna become a job requirement, man. You know, you justsaid so much and I'm gonna try to, like, distilled this down three types ofcapital financial, capital, human... to me, really the opportunityin this digital world, it's the social capital, because that gives us anexponential factor. I love your analogy of you could take five hours and goplay golf with three people, or you could take 20 minutes. Engage, connectlike comment, share on social media, Khalfan our and connect with 30 50people in that time frame. So there's an exponential factor. But socialcapital must be a cultural core competency. And really, what I think itboils down to is we're looking at this from the lens of abundance or lookingat this from the lens of scarcity. And there's one person because youmentioned, like, you know, if if if you're not on board with this, well,maybe it's timeto, you know, start, you know, looking at retirement. But I havelearned so much in the executive coaching program. I'm in strategiccoach with Dan Sullivan. One of things he says is always make your futurebigger than your past. And if there's one person that I can look at and say,follow him, he's he's done this. It's Jim Morris, you know, he's really takenthis enough. Had him on the very first guest on the podcast, because he hassuch a amazing story of just personal transformation, which has led topersonal growth. But he's always been about sharing, helping empoweringothers. In this game. It's it's not necessarily about Jim, it's about himhelping others, and I think that's what it boils down to. I want to bring itall back to this because we can really go down our rabbit hole and we can loseourselves in this digital world as well. And I've I have I I would say I'm arecovering Twitter addict from, you know, 2010, 11 12. It actually did alot of personal harm to myself and to my wife, my kids at the time, my family digital leadership, you mentionedyou're taking doing some things to take care of yourself. What do we need to doto strike the healthy balance between the digital world and the physicalworld? Well, that is a big question. And, you know, I probably much like youand many people listening. I spend most of my day in front of a computer,sitting and admittedly a comfortable chair, but not in a great position ingeneral for my body. So I you know, my feeling is that my work is always gonnabe in front of a screen and there will be some hazards associated with that.But my own mental health and my own sort of general overall health. I findI got to get out. I got to get away from the machines. I got to get awayfrom the devices even though I carried my phones with me all the time. But Ilately the way I'm sort of self caring... is walking and and getting out thereand being, you know, some kind of fitness. Now I live in the far north.Usually there's tons of snow. We've been blessed with a very nice fall thisyear and not so much snow, but but it's coming. So my I'm stealing myself forthe winter 2021. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be walking. No matter what the weatheris like. I'm going to get the footwear. I'm going to get the layers and I'mgonna walk all the time because for some reason, walking just feels likethe perfect way to restore balance when you're sitting in front of computer allday disconnect with the devices, reconnect with nature, it sounds likeis a good way to find the healthy balance. J Thank you so much for thegreat conversation. I've learned a lot today. I appreciate the insights forthose that are listening. What is the best way for them to really connectwith you? Because that's what that's what we've been talking about. What isthe best way for them to connect with you today? Well, I invite anybody findme on linked in. It's easy to find and send me a note with a littleintroduction. So you heard this podcast. I mean, this is this is a great way toconnect with people or come follow me on Twitter, where I am also active. Andyeah, I'm I'm really quite open to having conversations with people who,especially if they've heard this and have any insights or ideas they want totalk about. So come find me. I'm easy to find. All right. Well, for thosethat are listening, go find J connect with them linked in Twitter and isalways And until next time be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you forlistening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley.Like what you hear? Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review onapple podcasts, Google podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you'rethere to get even Mawr Practical in proven insights, visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to grab a preview of James Roberts bestselling book Bankingon Digital Growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team fromAmazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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