Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

46) #ExponentialInsights: Three Exponential Growth Insights w/ James Carbary

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You've thought about your financial brand's purpose and your culture because as the ancient wisdom says, without purpose — without vision — you have no future. You need a future because we're not going back to the way things were pre-pandemic.


But how can you create purpose and culture for the digital world we're entering?

In this episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I talk with James Carbary, founder of Sweet Fish Media, about education, empowerment, and elevation as we build digital teams for the future.

James and I discuss:

  • How to value relationships over transactions when you're working digitally
  • The core definition of digital growth
  • Why the best sales and marketing pros will transform into micro-media teams

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

...to build a media property that is not based on your expertise, but it is based on the expertise of your most profitable customer. You're listening to banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toe exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Ley and welcome to another episode of the Banking on Digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight Siri's and I'm excited to welcome James Carberry to the show. Hello, James. I am so excited to be here, James. Robert, this is gonna be just just jamming a little bit preinterview. This is gonna be a really fun conversation. It is because you're the founder of Sweet Fish Media. You are in this digital communication world, leading with podcast but also looking at taking audio, transforming that into video, video and the articles social So you've got a lot going on. What is one thing right now that you're really most excited about in this Post Cove in 19 World? Because it is a brave new world that we've moved into. This is a great question, man. I think the thing for me personally that I'm most excited about We've been a fully remote team ever since I started the business, you know, half a decade ago. And so we've We've figured out a lot of things in terms of working remote, but there's always opportunities to improve and get better. And some of the people that I follow that are just really have been really influential voices in my leadership journey. People like Patrick and Cioni, people like Craig Groeschel. They're all now talking about working remote. And so I feel like getting the opportunity to learn from these people that I respect dearly. But don't really talk about a big part of our business, which is working remote and like, how do you build remote culture there now? All talking about it. So what? I feel like we were we were pretty good at before. We're getting so much better. We're doing We're introducing concepts like the open office, so tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. We're doing a zoom, a four hour zoom call. There's no agenda for the meeting. It's just the equivalent of me. Open up a conference room door and saying, Hey, if anybody wants to work in here for for this afternoon like, let's, you know, jump on this zoom call and for the most part will be on mute. But it's It's a way for us all, like cross pollinate and talk about the business without it being about a specific agenda item. We're all working on our own things, but we're just a mute button away from being able toe like banter or get somebody's thoughts on something. So creating environments like that like That's something I learned from from Patrick Lindsay only the other day, listening to his podcast and so things like that. I'm just really excited to up our game in terms of leading our remote team. Hearing you talk through those points. There's really three things that stood out to me. Number one was the idea of culture. Number two was the open office and number three was this no agenda Um and I wanna take a step back because I really think it's important to gain some sense of where you've been as an organization because any financial brand you've been working remotely for 10 years, But you you've done something within the last. I think it was six months that it's just gonna expedient your trajectory. You have spent a lot of time thinking about purpose, thinking about culture, because without purpose, without vision, as ancient wisdom says, there is really kind of no future. So talk to me about that creating purpose and culture in a digital world. Because financial brands,...

...we're not gonna go back to the way things were before. Yeah s. Oh, man, I love talking about this stuff I'm getting. I'm getting goose bumps, just thinking, thinking about talking about this stuff. So we did a lot of work in the last six months defining as a company. What is our Why why do we exist? And then what's our mountaintop? Where we going? So I know a lot of people use mission and vision and and we just decided for our organization. Mission and vision were a little bit too nebulous. We didn't really know what with those words meant. But why in mountaintop made more sense for us? And so for us, we figured out, you know where Ah podcast agency. We have our own shows. We produce a lot of shows for, you know, 80 plus different B two B brands. But I wanted to add some soul to that and and purpose like, Why are we actually producing the content that we're producing? And so when we crafted are, why are Why is to inspire people to own their careers? Because 90,000 hours of your life shouldn't suck on when we started waving that flag and talking to our employees about man, the content you're producing for this client show it matters because because people spend 90,000 hours of their life at work and this content is helping them and get better at work, it's giving them fresh ideas and perspective and insight into how other people do things that's ultimately going to make them better at their job. It's gonna help them get promoted. It's gonna help them be more engaged at their work. It's gonna help them love what they're doing. Mawr because of the content you're producing. And so having that having the maybe sometimes monotonous or or work that doesn't necessarily feel sexy tying it to a purpose, especially with millennials I mean, are a big chunk of our team is millennials. And knowing that me is a millennial I'm driven by purpose is what I'm doing actually gonna matter. And is it gonna make the world better? And a lot of people crap on millennials. You know this fluffy, you know, in the cloud. It's just the reality. It's how it's it's how we think it's how we operate. And then our mountaintop is to educate one million people every single day. And by rallying people around those two big ideas, I've just seen a and a reinvigoration around our purpose. We have incredible employee retention. People don't leave our team and the cost savings and not having to train new people every six months because we're, you know, an employee turn factory. That is extremely helpful for us being a you know, early stage bootstrapped, service based business. We don't have a lot of extra money to spend, you know, 40 or $50,000 and on boarding new employees and you know, training them and getting them up to speed. So keeping our people is really important. And so figuring out our YR mountaintop is, I think, made a really big impact in in the culture that we're building in our ability to retain employees. It's really good to hear that because, as I write about in my book, banking on digital growth purposes at the center of everything an organization should be doing even with us here at the Digital Growth Institute. Yes, we are on a mission to simplify digital marketing and self strategies so the financial brands can generate 10 times more loans and deposits. But but the reason why why we do that is because money is stressful. The stress takes a toll on people's health, their relationships, their overall sense of well being. And they're looking for someone that they can trust to guide them beyond that stress to a bigger, better, brighter future. Financial brands are the medium or the pathway to achieve that, and so ultimately why we're doing this Because we want to get a billion people beyond that stress to a bigger, better, brighter future. And I love what you talked about your idea of educating a million people per day, you're empowering them with new insights. You're giving them clarity and you're elevating them to to entirely new heights. And And I think about like what we're seeing here in the banking space, right? How the banking world is getting turned upside down and you've actually lived in this world because when we're talking pre...

...interview, I mentioned someone who's applying to thinking that you've you've written about in your book content based networking is someone named Jill Kostya, who is just such a bright shining star in this industry. And you said who? Jill Costa roll that back a little bit s support that listeners eso You said you said her name and I was like, Oh, my gosh, he just said, Joseph Nastya is the CEO of a bank that I used to work at in college. Now I live in Orlando now, but I went to college in central Oklahoma and went to the University of Central Oklahoma and in Edmond, Oklahoma, and worked for a bank for about six months, called Citizens Bank, worked at another bank for four years prior to that, and then spent the last. It's part of my college career. Working at Citizens Bank, where Joe Castillo is now the CEO, eso is just very, very small world. As soon as you said her name, I was like, Wait a minute, that's crazy. And so I think it's important that we tell what Jill has been doing, particularly this this Post Cove in 19 World. And she was doing this before. But she has been such an advocate for u utilizing platforms like linked in and video communication to connect with her audience. And that's that's what I want to talk about now is moving the conversation and to what you wrote about in your book content based networking. Because consumer behavior is changed, it will never go back to what it was before. We We've experienced this Post Cove in 19 World. People weren't going into branches like they were 10 years ago. Covic expedited that transformation. And so if I'm a financial brand marketing team member, I'm a sales team member. I'm on the leadership team. I'm now looking for ways to grow my bank, my credit union, in a digital world, content as I write about it. It's the fuel of the digital growth engine. So it's not about using technology alone. It's really about using technology to bring to human beings together for good to create value. And that's one of the key points that you make in your book. Content based networking is valuing relationships over transactions because, as you know, as you've been in the industry, this is a transactional, driven market. So talk to me about valuing relationships over transactions digitally. Yeah, so I'll give a little bit of context is toe how how I stumbled into this story. So in 2008, I was still living in Oklahoma. I think I was working at one of the banks that I was that I was working out back then. It might have been citizens, or it might have been shortly after I left, but my my roommates brother in law won a sweepstakes through this phone company called Alltel, and it was one of those things where it's like your text. You know your text football 255199 And you, you and nine of your friends can win an all expense trip to professional football game of your choice and you see those on TV. You see the commercials and you're like nobody actually wins those what? Turns out people actually do in those And my roommate's brother in law happened to win it. My roommate's brother in law with his brand New Oklahoma, didn't have a lot of friends. You just move there for work and he didn't have a lot of friends in the area yet. And so he went to his brother in law, who is my roommate, and said, Hey, do you have nine buddies that would want to get on a private jet with us and go to this New York Giants game in New York City and S Oh, my roommate called me and he's like, Hey, do you want to do do the sweepstakes saying, Private Jet New York City, Hang out with Barry Sanders in a suite next to Jerry Jones? All the stuff I was like, of course, yes, I want to do that. And so we get there and we get off the jet and there's this guy named Jeff that was there to greet us, and he put us into the limo bus. As soon as we got off the jet. He toured us around the city, made sure we had a police escort. But it took us the lunch. You know, did the whole New York City tour got us into the game like he was kind of our liaison on behalf of all Tell, I didn't really think anything of it, but I end up hitting it off with the guy, and I built a relationship with this guy. Turns out Jeff is the CEO of this global logistics company called E T. A. Logistics. So they...

...manage sweepstakes like this for a bunch of different phone companies. Massive brands. They do stuff at the Super Bowl, the Olympics, Final Four, all these massive sporting events. And Jeff just I forget whether he was just happened to be in New York City at the time. Or he just knew that this, with this particular sweepstakes that they're managing, had a bunch of 24 year old kids on it. And so he was like, Hey, I don't want them wrecking the jet that I'm chartering. So he personally went himself to run this trip and because I hit it off with him. That single relationship with Jeff ended up changing the entire trajectory of my entire life. So I stayed connected with Jeff. Ah, year and a half later, I'm working in an oil and gas company in Oklahoma City, and Jeff calls me seemingly out of nowhere, and he's like, Hey, James, our helicopter, The guy that's running the helicopter division of our company just left. Would you want to move to Orlando and run the helicopter division of our business focused on serving our NASCAR client basis? So like basically getting Jeff Gordon from the racetrack to his private jet post race so he doesn't have to deal with all the NASCAR traffic. And it was just like what? Like this is the most insane opportunity ever. But because I built a genuine relationship with Jeff a year and a half prior, I stayed in contact with him. That opportunity that presented itself to me a year and a half later, I had never I'm not the kind of entrepreneur or that had a had a base that sold baseball cards or eliminate growing up. I didn't know what the word entrepreneurship that was never modeled to me. So working for Jeff really showed me what entrepreneurship was what it could be. And it's really what inspired me to pursue starting my own business. One day it also moved me to Orlando, which is where I met my wife. So to say that that single relationship had a profound impact on my life is like the understatement of the century. Like what I do professionally is different because of that relationship. Who I'm married to is different because of that relationship where I live, who, my friends are now all different because that relationship. So when I started sweet fish, I started trying to figure out How can I build like I know that relationships are powerful, and I know that they could be life changing. How do I make that into my business? How do I build a relationship with somebody so that our friendship is ultimately, like opens up business opportunities for me? I don't want to just like cold call people. I don't wanna I don't wanna do the transactional thing that you're right. It's so prevalent in banking. I wanna build genuine relationships. And I started thinking, How do I do that? Like, what do I actually need to do? Well, what if I started reaching out to people, that would be my ideal customers. And what if I just started collaborating with them and creating content with with them? So I am not them. I am not a VP of marketing at a B two B technology company with 50 plus employees, but I know that my buyer is, and so I maybe don't have a lot to say to that audience in and of myself, just like, say, a loan officer at a bank who specializes in construction and loans. They might not have a lot to say about construction outside of the financial element of construction. But if they were to start a podcast featuring all of the construction company owners in their region and started interviewing those CEOs about the ins and outs of construction and what goes into it and how do you know how to bid projects and all of the nitty gritty detail that's doing a few different things? One. It's helping them build 1 to 1 relationships with the exact people that they're trying to do loans for to its educating that loan officer on different facets of the business. Probably opening that loan officers eyes to what other ways We conserve these companies because, man, we didn't even realize that way back like three steps before we typically talk to them. There's an opportunity for our bank to step in and really serve them. And so you're opening up new revenue streams because you know your customer better. And then the content that comes out of it is who do you think it's gonna listen to a...

...podcast where you're interviewing CEOs of construction companies, other CEOs of construction companies? So it's I think it can work. I mean, it worked for me, obviously, and growing our business, but I think it can work in banking so well. I think doing local shows where you're highlighting people in your area entrepreneurs in your area that you wanna work with having them share their story, whether it's, you know, construction or just pay the Chicago entrepreneur podcast. There's so many ways you can slice and dice it, and I hope that more banks start to take advantage of this, especially Post Cove. It Yeah, you know, hearing you talk through here, a couple of things you talked about sharing stories. That's what connects people to get stories. I write about this story's bind us together. But it's also about transformations over transactions, transformation for the individual, listening once again, education, empowerment, elevation. I love your idea of the construction company and that that commercial loan officer toe I've made similar recommendations over the years. Like and its niche markets, like right now Post Cove in local business want to get heard They need to get into that local banks community Does. AH, Community Baker, a credit union. There are Commerce conduit. They take deposits from consumers. They give loans to consumers. But then they do the same thing for small business. There's one financial brand doing that, and they've been on this mission now for like, the past four years. It's a It's a community bank in Wisconsin, and they have a platform that they developed called Growing Wisconsin. And it tells the story that highlights the stories of these local businesses. So, yeah, brilliant strategy. I love where you're going with this, but let's take this a little bit further because, okay, great. I buy into the idea that I'm a loan officer. I could have my show. I could be creating content I could be building. One of the things that I also talked about is building a business of expertise. A book of business, of expertise. But how do I do that? You know, one of the things that you write about in your book is focusing on the process, not a single outcome. And that's a big thing, I think. Shift in thinking for financial brand leaders. Yeah, it's to me. I just always I used the My team probably gets sick of me hearing it, hearing me say it. But I I use the term reverse engineering a lot, and and ultimately, I just want to reverse engineer a particular result. And so you're you're masterful at this, is we've you know, we've been working on your podcast and just seeing how what you've done with your podcast on the back end of it and the sequence of emails that I got as a guest leading up to this and the question is that I filled out all of that stuff breaking down. What is the end result? I want to create an incredible experience for the guest that I'm featuring on a podcast or video, Siri's or a blawg article that I'm gonna be writing with somebody when it create an incredible experience for them. And then I also want to create incredible content for the consumer. And then I also want to build a long lasting relationship with this person that I'm featuring on the show. There is process to be created around each of those things. So things like, you know, creating a form that you have your admin or somebody else on your team sinned to every single guest that you book on this show so that you know, that preinterview they've been prepped. They know what you're going to talk about. They're good to go during the actual interview itself. You have process around. I know that I'm gonna ask these two or three questions that I know ends up creating really great content. So things like, Hey, what are some myths in the industry right now that you just passionately disagree with that tends toe? Be great content. If you get people speaking contrarian and like a fan, everybody's doing this. But you should be doing this That ends up being great content. You can do that repeatedly, over and over and over...

...again. If you bake that into your process and you make sure that you ask a question like that every single time you interview somebody and then post interview, what am I doing Post interview To make sure that these people stay on my radar long after the interviews over maybe every interview I go on, I do a second collaboration with them. And that second collaboration is really where the friendship deepens. So we get him on to do a podcast interview, and then I know three weeks later, I'm gonna reach out, and I'm gonna say, Hey, I'm doing this video series on linked in. I'd love to just do a one minute video with you real quick. Are you open for, you know, popping up Skype curbs? Why did I just say Skype? I'm in 2011. Open up, zoom and, uh, and do like a little five minute thing, and we'll use a minute clip of this video and I'll put it on LinkedIn. Now you've cemented that relationship. That's a process that you can repeat over and over again. Maybe you put them in your CRM, and on their birthday, you send them. You know, Ah, fun gift certificate to a really cool restaurant in the area, or or something customized with their logo or their brand on it, that you send them in instead of just sending them swag with your banks logo on it, like send them something for their golf club that has their logo on it. And so, doing things like that, systematically baking it into process ensures that you're going to get repeated results over and over and over again. So, no, both you and I have built our entire businesses around process, but I think it absolutely applies to what we're talking about today. Technology has transformed our world, and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have thio because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. Well, that is the core definition of digital growth. Digital growth is well defined systems and processes that have been centered around the modern consumer journey. To generate traffic to your website, Thio take that traffic, turn it into Leeds and then ultimately convert those leads into loans and deposits. But you said something key here. This is about an experience, and then experience is nothing more than well defined systems and processes that have been defined, applied and refined. That's the key refined over a set period of time, resulting in a positive or a negative emotion that's then gonna organically move around. Now I think the gap in in thinking sometimes when it comes to a financial brand marketing team, a sales team and leadership team is historically if we go back 10 2030 40 50 years, I do X with marketing. I get why a week later or a month later. But you and I know that the buying journey for financial products is an extremely complex one, and sometimes it takes 60 9100 and 80 days to build that relationship. So talk to me a little bit about how can I overcome? Take that contrarian point of view to your point toe, overcome some of that resistance. Like if I do x well, I should get WiFi send out this direct mail piece. I get these leads for loans. But I had that same thinking. If I post this content...

...on social media, shouldn't I get the same thing? So it's so this is that I love talking about this, James, because it's just you and I both put out enough content in the world to know that sometimes it results in immediate return. Oftentimes it doesn't so I'll share two stories. I put out a deck on LinkedIn yesterday, and it's got I think, 17 or 18,000 views on it. Incredible results. Organic didn't put a dime of paid ads been behind it. I found somebody on LinkedIn that I really respect. I synthesis, synthesized three of his big ideas, had our creative director turning into a deck, put it up, tagged him in it. He obviously commented on it because he really liked it. It was flattering to him. Ah, bunch of his followers ended up seeing it produced a ton of results or a ton of eyeballs that afternoon. Yesterday afternoon, we ended up having an inbound lead come in as a direct result of them seeing that deck and being like, Hey, could you guys do something like this for us? I know that you guys produce podcast. We're looking at producing a podcast. Let's set up a conversation. So I sent him over the Logan on our team director of partnerships. And who knows? Maybe that turns into something. Maybe it doesn't. But that's a tangible result off me putting out a deck and it performing well because the content was actually good and helpful for my intended audience. Another story. So that's that's great. That's what everybody expects toe happen every time. The reality is that's the exception to the rule that rarely happens. If I'm completely honest, what usually happens and this is another story. Earlier this month, we ended up closing a deal with a software company. We're going to start producing their podcast. And this woman that was the decision maker at this company we featured on a virtual summit that we hosted 3.5 years ago. And we featured the CMO who, uh, they ended up doing this episode in like a sauna in there because they were They were in some other country where Santa's were a big deal and we created this piece of content and Christine is the girl that is now our customer. Christine was on the marketing team of the CMO that I was interviewing for that virtual summit. The CMO ends up moving companies like a year later, we end up working with that CMO at her other company. But then Christine, as she graduates and gets, you know, mawr skilled and professionally develops. She is now a decision maker in the marketing team, for for I think she's been a two or three companies since that company where we originally met her. But she is now a decision maker and because we have nurtured that relationship with her. I saw her in New York whenever I was on a New York trip a couple years ago. Stayed in contact with her, were connected on LinkedIn. She probably saw the decks that I put out to, uh, she sees the content that I'm putting out on LinkedIn. I'm nurturing that relationship with her through the content we're putting out. And when her new company now is talking about doing a podcast, who, who she calls, she calls us. That was 3.5 years in the making for that to happen. Now we ended up doing business with her CMO a little bit quicker than that, maybe a year afterwards. But I think even in you saying 30 60 90 days, I'm like, Man, it would be nice if it always worked out in 30 60 90 days. But if you're playing the long game, and if these financial brands, I think are trying to play the long game like relationships are the ultimate long gameplay. And so I think investing in a relationship sit, go back to our example of like CEOs and construction companies. Maybe they just signed a $14 million loan with another bank of competitors. And you're like, man, they're not gonna need any any more funding for years. Build a relationship with them now because in seven years when they need to take out $100 million loan because they're continuing to expand and you've built that relationship with them, I bet you're gonna be pretty dang glad that you spent seven years nurturing that...

...relationship. Yeah, and in that point of that 30 60 90 days, it really is dependent upon whatever product it is, The more complex the product, the longer the buying cycle and commercial. Yeah. I mean, that's a that's a very that could be a multiyear quote unquote deal in the making. I even think, you know, you're referencing your linked in slide deck Onda. We were talking about him, Chris Walker, because I think even Chris Walker posted something on LinkedIn recently, where he said it takes 60 to 90 engagements or interactions with his content before someone becomes a client of his. So this is to your point. This is a long play and and and let's talk about this from a sense of investment. Since we're talking financial services, I'm using content to invest in the future. I might not see the result in the present moment, so that's a big transformation in thinking. And so if I'm making an investment in the future, I would take the analogy of this. It's almost like making a deposit into the trust fund of the mind of the consumer, and it's gonna take time. But the MAWR deposits that you make the MAWR interest. You'll gain the MAWR trust you'll build and whenever someone is ready to raise their hand saying I need help because that was another key word you you use. This is about helping first and selling second, another cultural transformation mind shift right there. So let's talk about that helping first selling second because this is about taking a journalistic approach and my take Is this the future of marketing and sales teams will transform into almost like micro media teams? I completely agree we're actually transforming our service based business into a media company. I mean, we've we've changed how we refer to ourselves as were a podcast First Media Company. Now the bulk of our revenue, 88% of our revenue comes from producing podcasts for shows we don't own for B two B software companies that are a part of our collective shows. They're not. They're not contributing. Tow our content. We're just producing their content. That's the bulk of our revenue right now. But the future of our business is in building our own properties in building our you know, our show B two b growth. We've also got B two B sales show the manufacturing show Crafting Culture, The CEO show. We're building these shows in different industries because I believe, ultimately that media companies have all of the leverage because they have the attention of the consumer. And so, if you can transform your financial services company, your your bank, your credit union, whatever into the modern day newspaper in your city or your region, the modern day TV show the modern day insert whatever it is radio show, whatever. If you could become the media hub for your area and deliver helpful content over and over and over and over again, who do you think those people are going to go to when they inevitably need what you have to offer? Yeah, be the media company because the media company has the eyeballs, they have the attention. They have the ears of the people within the communities that they serve in the way that I look at this, people want three things in their life. They want Thio feel healthy. They want to be wealthy, and that doesn't mean be a Brazilian air. But I just don't wanna have to worry about money and and and have some financial peace, and they want to be happy. But where people have that stress is right there in the middle financially, and that financial stress takes a toll on a person's physical well being and their mental well being and where I see financial brands and maybe you can speak to this. Where I see financial brands get hung up a little bit is I think, Oh, I have to operate in this box of talking about loans and deposits and checking accounts. I disagree. You could become a life. You could become a...

...lifestyle brand, focused on the physical health and the mental well being. And oh, we also do these loans right, and it's even mawr, even Mawr. So with a financial brand because the name of your business is so overt toe what you actually do. And there's no confusion around what banks and credit unions dio eso you can get in the world that I live in and B two b Tech, all these companies because it's a war for domain names. They've all got to V s or they spell their name weird. And you're like, What? You're an analytics platform. What's that really mean? And so there. So if they take this strategy, it's a little bit tougher for them. I still think they should do it. But in my world, when our customers are becoming media companies, they're working with us to do their podcast. They're going heavy on linked in there, putting out all this different kind of video content. They're doing all this stuff, they they're capturing audience, and eventually people will know what they dio. But it's it's harder. They have to be a little bit more direct with, like with This is what we actually do. And this is how we can actually serve you where banks they can put out insanely helpful content and sharing entrepreneurial stories of like successful entrepreneurs in their city, picking an industry and sharing success stories in that specific industry in there. Maybe it's in their region and by nature of what they actually are, as people are seeing this content go out and it's from a bank or credit union, it's weird for people to be like Wait a minute. This bank isn't trying to sell me on doing alone with them or by open up account with them. They're sharing a success story off somebody else in my city that's doing something really cool. Oh, like this is really fun. I want to follow them. Yeah, they instinctively know what the bank does like. It's a bank like there's no there's no confusion around the value that a bank provides to the community. But I think there's tremendous opportunity for them to change their thinking around the kind of content they're putting out. Three. Those three words again education, empowerment and elevation. And you mentioned like the two V s. I know that you've spent some time with another V, Gary V. Um, and I think about this is like a very practical idea because he had wine library. I mean, that's what, like projected him you know, into a much of creating the personality that he is today. But I can think of a financial brand that we've been advising recently, and it comes out to niche markets. I think that's where the community bank has. The greatest opportunity is specific niche markets, and for this particular financial brand, they have an opportunity to become the bank for beer. People are the bank for people that love beer, and I think about Gary V and your relationship with Gary V and the opportunities that exist for this financial brand to not do like the wine library play. But they could do almost like a beer review and truly be the bank for people that love beer. Yes, I love that. And and so the other thing that I think people get caught up on is way. Get this. We have to give this advice almost every day with with our customers, especially when when we're branding new shows, our flagship podcast, it's been downloaded over 3.5 million times. It's called B two B growth. There's a very strong reason why our show we're experts in B two B podcast. It's what we do all day, every day. So we think about it. What we you know, it's what we know. We did not start the B two b podcasting show, which would have been super meta. Anyway, we didn't start the sweet fish media podcast. We started B two b growth because the people that we want to engage with and we want to ultimately buy from us, they're interested and B to b growth. They're experts internally in their own companies in B two b growth. So when banks stopped thinking about their content as the Citizens Bank show and...

...they start thinking about it like Edmund success and they're featuring, you know, to go back to our joke Asta story earlier, she starts featuring entrepreneur, successful entrepreneurs in Edmond that completely changes the focus of that content and makes it way more interesting. Because if all citizens bank did was talk about finance, nobody would want to listen to that. Because unless you're in that world, finances super boring one of our customers there a financial advisory firm here in Orlando, and they love working with purpose driven entrepreneurs. So their show is called Orlando Impact, and they literally interview people that are like social entrepreneurs and and entrepreneurs are giving back to Orlando. And lo and behold, most of the people they talk thio end up being, you know, our great fits to be their client. That's that's what they've identified is their sweet spot client. But they didn't make the content about finances, and especially in regulated industries like banking and finance and all this stuff we hear a lot of people say, like, Oh, we can't talk about you know, this and this and this because it's regulated good. You shouldn't be talking about that anyway because it's gonna bore people to tears like instead talk about, like, talk about something that is interesting to them that allows you to be the voice of that interesting thing so that when they ultimately need what you do, you're the person they come to. Yeah, and really, what you're speaking to is a key strategy that I talked about. I know that you've talked about as well is the idea of category creation like like create a category, own the category B, the bank for people that love beer and and that becomes your central. Now we've gone full circle because to your point of the of the podcast that you know interviews, purpose driven entrepreneurs, purpose is the North Star. It's what guides a brand Ford it. What's helps them to say yes or no, make decisions appropriately, who were going to help. But more importantly, why are we going to help them? James. This has been such an energetic conversation. Look forward to doing this again in the future. Let me end on this. I'm a financial brand marketing team member. I'm a sales team member. I'm on the leadership team. There's a lot going on right now in this Post Cove in 19 World, but from your lens from your perspective of the world, what is one thing that you could recommend for financial brand team sales team marketing team to really focus on over the next 12 months, I would say to build a media property that is not based on your expertise, but it is based that is based on the expertise of your most profitable customer. So you're a za bank. You probably got lots of different potential customers. Hone in Who's our most profitable? Is it construction? CEOs Is it is it Pharma, is it? You know, what is it? What what's it look like for us? What is what is our sweet spot client? And then start to build a media property around that specific persona. And in doing that, it's going to force you to actually interview those people and collaborate and create content with those people being a podcast of video. You know, a syriza blogged articles that your team runs, but that that's what I would say their focus should be for the next 12 months. Is building a media property around the persona off their best fit customer, and that maybe we'll take this on another podcast because that building a media property is such a key? So that's an asset that you own that you can assign monetary value to and and and coming back you own it because you don't own your Facebook audience. You don't own your YouTube, but you can own this media property, and it creates exponential value over time. James. Such a great conversation author, content based networking. How to instantly connect with anyone you know,...

...if someone wants to connect with you, continue the conversation we've started today. What's the best way for them to reach out and say hello. Yes, so they can reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm super active on LinkedIn. Carberry is my last name. So James Carberry C a r b a R Y. You can also email me James that sweet fish media dot com if you want to connect with me there. But I would love to connect with anybody and everybody listening to this. And then you could check out the book content based networking on Audible or Amazon wherever, Whether you like to read books or listen to him would love Thio. I put my cell phone number in the back of the book is well, so whether you listen to it or read it would love to hear from you via text on DSI What you thought of it once again, James, thanks for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thank you until next time be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley. Like what you hear? Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, Google Podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even Mawr Practical and proven insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James Roberts bestselling book Banking on Digital Growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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