Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

46) #ExponentialInsights: Three Exponential Growth Insights w/ James Carbary

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You've thought about your financial brand's purpose and your culture because as the ancient wisdom says, without purpose — without vision — you have no future. You need a future because we're not going back to the way things were pre-pandemic.


But how can you create purpose and culture for the digital world we're entering?

In this episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I talk with James Carbary, founder of Sweet Fish Media, about education, empowerment, and elevation as we build digital teams for the future.

James and I discuss:

  • How to value relationships over transactions when you're working digitally
  • The core definition of digital growth
  • Why the best sales and marketing pros will transform into micro-media teams

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

...to build a media property that is notbased on your expertise, but it is based on the expertise of your mostprofitable customer. You're listening to banking on DigitalGrowth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toeexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings inHello, I am James Robert Ley and welcome to another episode of theBanking on Digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight Siri's and I'm excited to welcome James Carberry tothe show. Hello, James. I am so excited to be here, James. Robert, this isgonna be just just jamming a little bit preinterview. This is gonna be a reallyfun conversation. It is because you're the founder of Sweet Fish Media. Youare in this digital communication world, leading with podcast but also lookingat taking audio, transforming that into video, video and the articles social Soyou've got a lot going on. What is one thing right now that you're really mostexcited about in this Post Cove in 19 World? Because it is a brave new worldthat we've moved into. This is a great question, man. I think the thing for mepersonally that I'm most excited about We've been a fully remote team eversince I started the business, you know, half a decade ago. And so we've We'vefigured out a lot of things in terms of working remote, but there's alwaysopportunities to improve and get better. And some of the people that I followthat are just really have been really influential voices in my leadershipjourney. People like Patrick and Cioni, people like Craig Groeschel. They'reall now talking about working remote. And so I feel like getting theopportunity to learn from these people that I respect dearly. But don't reallytalk about a big part of our business, which is working remote and like, howdo you build remote culture there now? All talking about it. So what? I feellike we were we were pretty good at before. We're getting so much better.We're doing We're introducing concepts like the open office, so tomorrow orthe day after tomorrow. We're doing a zoom, a four hour zoom call. There's noagenda for the meeting. It's just the equivalent of me. Open up a conferenceroom door and saying, Hey, if anybody wants to work in here for for thisafternoon like, let's, you know, jump on this zoom call and for the most partwill be on mute. But it's It's a way for us all, like cross pollinate andtalk about the business without it being about a specific agenda item.We're all working on our own things, but we're just a mute button away frombeing able toe like banter or get somebody's thoughts on something. Socreating environments like that like That's something I learned from fromPatrick Lindsay only the other day, listening to his podcast and so thingslike that. I'm just really excited to up our game in terms of leading ourremote team. Hearing you talk through those points. There's really threethings that stood out to me. Number one was the idea of culture. Number two wasthe open office and number three was this no agenda Um and I wanna take astep back because I really think it's important to gain some sense of whereyou've been as an organization because any financial brand you've been workingremotely for 10 years, But you you've done something within the last. I thinkit was six months that it's just gonna expedient your trajectory. You havespent a lot of time thinking about purpose, thinking about culture,because without purpose, without vision, as ancient wisdom says, there is reallykind of no future. So talk to me about that creating purpose and culture in adigital world. Because financial brands,...

...we're not gonna go back to the waythings were before. Yeah s. Oh, man, I love talking about this stuff I'mgetting. I'm getting goose bumps, just thinking, thinking about talking aboutthis stuff. So we did a lot of work in the last six months defining as acompany. What is our Why why do we exist? And then what's our mountaintop?Where we going? So I know a lot of people use mission and vision and andwe just decided for our organization. Mission and vision were a little bittoo nebulous. We didn't really know what with those words meant. But why inmountaintop made more sense for us? And so for us, we figured out, you knowwhere Ah podcast agency. We have our own shows. We produce a lot of showsfor, you know, 80 plus different B two B brands. But I wanted to add some soulto that and and purpose like, Why are we actually producing the content thatwe're producing? And so when we crafted are, why are Why is to inspire peopleto own their careers? Because 90,000 hours of your life shouldn't suck onwhen we started waving that flag and talking to our employees about man, thecontent you're producing for this client show it matters because becausepeople spend 90,000 hours of their life at work and this content is helpingthem and get better at work, it's giving them fresh ideas and perspectiveand insight into how other people do things that's ultimately going to makethem better at their job. It's gonna help them get promoted. It's gonna helpthem be more engaged at their work. It's gonna help them love what they'redoing. Mawr because of the content you're producing. And so having thathaving the maybe sometimes monotonous or or work that doesn't necessarilyfeel sexy tying it to a purpose, especially with millennials I mean, area big chunk of our team is millennials. And knowing that me is a millennial I'mdriven by purpose is what I'm doing actually gonna matter. And is it gonnamake the world better? And a lot of people crap on millennials. You knowthis fluffy, you know, in the cloud. It's just the reality. It's how it'sit's how we think it's how we operate. And then our mountaintop is to educateone million people every single day. And by rallying people around those twobig ideas, I've just seen a and a reinvigoration around our purpose. Wehave incredible employee retention. People don't leave our team and thecost savings and not having to train new people every six months becausewe're, you know, an employee turn factory. That is extremely helpful forus being a you know, early stage bootstrapped, service based business.We don't have a lot of extra money to spend, you know, 40 or $50,000 and onboarding new employees and you know, training them and getting them up tospeed. So keeping our people is really important. And so figuring out our YRmountaintop is, I think, made a really big impact in in the culture that we'rebuilding in our ability to retain employees. It's really good to hearthat because, as I write about in my book, banking on digital growthpurposes at the center of everything an organization should be doing even withus here at the Digital Growth Institute. Yes, we are on a mission to simplifydigital marketing and self strategies so the financial brands can generate 10times more loans and deposits. But but the reason why why we do that isbecause money is stressful. The stress takes a toll on people's health, theirrelationships, their overall sense of well being. And they're looking forsomeone that they can trust to guide them beyond that stress to a bigger,better, brighter future. Financial brands are the medium or the pathway toachieve that, and so ultimately why we're doing this Because we want to geta billion people beyond that stress to a bigger, better, brighter future. AndI love what you talked about your idea of educating a million people per day,you're empowering them with new insights. You're giving them clarityand you're elevating them to to entirely new heights. And And I thinkabout like what we're seeing here in the banking space, right? How thebanking world is getting turned upside down and you've actually lived in thisworld because when we're talking pre...

...interview, I mentioned someone who'sapplying to thinking that you've you've written about in your book contentbased networking is someone named Jill Kostya, who is just such a brightshining star in this industry. And you said who? Jill Costa roll that back alittle bit s support that listeners eso You said you said her name and I waslike, Oh, my gosh, he just said, Joseph Nastya is the CEO of a bank that I usedto work at in college. Now I live in Orlando now, but I went to college incentral Oklahoma and went to the University of Central Oklahoma and inEdmond, Oklahoma, and worked for a bank for about six months, called CitizensBank, worked at another bank for four years prior to that, and then spent thelast. It's part of my college career. Working at Citizens Bank, where JoeCastillo is now the CEO, eso is just very, very small world. As soon as yousaid her name, I was like, Wait a minute, that's crazy. And so I thinkit's important that we tell what Jill has been doing, particularly this thisPost Cove in 19 World. And she was doing this before. But she has beensuch an advocate for u utilizing platforms like linked in and videocommunication to connect with her audience. And that's that's what I wantto talk about now is moving the conversation and to what you wroteabout in your book content based networking. Because consumer behavioris changed, it will never go back to what it was before. We We'veexperienced this Post Cove in 19 World. People weren't going into branches likethey were 10 years ago. Covic expedited that transformation. And so if I'm afinancial brand marketing team member, I'm a sales team member. I'm on theleadership team. I'm now looking for ways to grow my bank, my credit union,in a digital world, content as I write about it. It's the fuel of the digitalgrowth engine. So it's not about using technology alone. It's really aboutusing technology to bring to human beings together for good to createvalue. And that's one of the key points that you make in your book. Contentbased networking is valuing relationships over transactions because,as you know, as you've been in the industry, this is a transactional,driven market. So talk to me about valuing relationships over transactionsdigitally. Yeah, so I'll give a little bit of context is toe how how Istumbled into this story. So in 2008, I was still living in Oklahoma. I think Iwas working at one of the banks that I was that I was working out back then.It might have been citizens, or it might have been shortly after I left,but my my roommates brother in law won a sweepstakes through this phonecompany called Alltel, and it was one of those things where it's like yourtext. You know your text football 255199 And you, you and nine of yourfriends can win an all expense trip to professional football game of yourchoice and you see those on TV. You see the commercials and you're like nobodyactually wins those what? Turns out people actually do in those And myroommate's brother in law happened to win it. My roommate's brother in lawwith his brand New Oklahoma, didn't have a lot of friends. You just movethere for work and he didn't have a lot of friends in the area yet. And so hewent to his brother in law, who is my roommate, and said, Hey, do you havenine buddies that would want to get on a private jet with us and go to thisNew York Giants game in New York City and S Oh, my roommate called me andhe's like, Hey, do you want to do do the sweepstakes saying, Private Jet NewYork City, Hang out with Barry Sanders in a suite next to Jerry Jones? All thestuff I was like, of course, yes, I want to do that. And so we get thereand we get off the jet and there's this guy named Jeff that was there to greetus, and he put us into the limo bus. As soon as we got off the jet. He touredus around the city, made sure we had a police escort. But it took us the lunch.You know, did the whole New York City tour got us into the game like he waskind of our liaison on behalf of all Tell, I didn't really think anything ofit, but I end up hitting it off with the guy, and I built a relationshipwith this guy. Turns out Jeff is the CEO of this global logistics companycalled E T. A. Logistics. So they...

...manage sweepstakes like this for abunch of different phone companies. Massive brands. They do stuff at theSuper Bowl, the Olympics, Final Four, all these massive sporting events. AndJeff just I forget whether he was just happened to be in New York City at thetime. Or he just knew that this, with this particular sweepstakes thatthey're managing, had a bunch of 24 year old kids on it. And so he was like,Hey, I don't want them wrecking the jet that I'm chartering. So he personallywent himself to run this trip and because I hit it off with him. Thatsingle relationship with Jeff ended up changing the entire trajectory of myentire life. So I stayed connected with Jeff. Ah, year and a half later, I'mworking in an oil and gas company in Oklahoma City, and Jeff calls meseemingly out of nowhere, and he's like, Hey, James, our helicopter, The guythat's running the helicopter division of our company just left. Would youwant to move to Orlando and run the helicopter division of our businessfocused on serving our NASCAR client basis? So like basically getting JeffGordon from the racetrack to his private jet post race so he doesn'thave to deal with all the NASCAR traffic. And it was just like what?Like this is the most insane opportunity ever. But because I built agenuine relationship with Jeff a year and a half prior, I stayed in contactwith him. That opportunity that presented itself to me a year and ahalf later, I had never I'm not the kind of entrepreneur or that had a hada base that sold baseball cards or eliminate growing up. I didn't knowwhat the word entrepreneurship that was never modeled to me. So working forJeff really showed me what entrepreneurship was what it could be.And it's really what inspired me to pursue starting my own business. Oneday it also moved me to Orlando, which is where I met my wife. So to say thatthat single relationship had a profound impact on my life is like theunderstatement of the century. Like what I do professionally is differentbecause of that relationship. Who I'm married to is different because of thatrelationship where I live, who, my friends are now all different becausethat relationship. So when I started sweet fish, I started trying to figureout How can I build like I know that relationships are powerful, and I knowthat they could be life changing. How do I make that into my business? How doI build a relationship with somebody so that our friendship is ultimately, likeopens up business opportunities for me? I don't want to just like cold callpeople. I don't wanna I don't wanna do the transactional thing that you'reright. It's so prevalent in banking. I wanna build genuine relationships. AndI started thinking, How do I do that? Like, what do I actually need to do?Well, what if I started reaching out to people, that would be my idealcustomers. And what if I just started collaborating with them and creatingcontent with with them? So I am not them. I am not a VP of marketing at a Btwo B technology company with 50 plus employees, but I know that my buyer is,and so I maybe don't have a lot to say to that audience in and of myself, justlike, say, a loan officer at a bank who specializes in construction and loans.They might not have a lot to say about construction outside of the financialelement of construction. But if they were to start a podcast featuring allof the construction company owners in their region and started interviewingthose CEOs about the ins and outs of construction and what goes into it andhow do you know how to bid projects and all of the nitty gritty detail that'sdoing a few different things? One. It's helping them build 1 to 1 relationshipswith the exact people that they're trying to do loans for to its educatingthat loan officer on different facets of the business. Probably opening thatloan officers eyes to what other ways We conserve these companies because,man, we didn't even realize that way back like three steps before wetypically talk to them. There's an opportunity for our bank to step in andreally serve them. And so you're opening up new revenue streams becauseyou know your customer better. And then the content that comes out of it is whodo you think it's gonna listen to a...

...podcast where you're interviewing CEOsof construction companies, other CEOs of construction companies? So it's Ithink it can work. I mean, it worked for me, obviously, and growing ourbusiness, but I think it can work in banking so well. I think doing localshows where you're highlighting people in your area entrepreneurs in your areathat you wanna work with having them share their story, whether it's, youknow, construction or just pay the Chicago entrepreneur podcast. There'sso many ways you can slice and dice it, and I hope that more banks start totake advantage of this, especially Post Cove. It Yeah, you know, hearing youtalk through here, a couple of things you talked about sharing stories.That's what connects people to get stories. I write about this story'sbind us together. But it's also about transformations over transactions,transformation for the individual, listening once again, education,empowerment, elevation. I love your idea of the construction company andthat that commercial loan officer toe I've made similar recommendations overthe years. Like and its niche markets, like right now Post Cove in localbusiness want to get heard They need to get into that local banks communityDoes. AH, Community Baker, a credit union. There are Commerce conduit. Theytake deposits from consumers. They give loans to consumers. But then they dothe same thing for small business. There's one financial brand doing that,and they've been on this mission now for like, the past four years. It's aIt's a community bank in Wisconsin, and they have a platform that theydeveloped called Growing Wisconsin. And it tells the story that highlights thestories of these local businesses. So, yeah, brilliant strategy. I love whereyou're going with this, but let's take this a little bit further because, okay,great. I buy into the idea that I'm a loan officer. I could have my show. Icould be creating content I could be building. One of the things that I alsotalked about is building a business of expertise. A book of business, ofexpertise. But how do I do that? You know, one of the things that you writeabout in your book is focusing on the process, not a single outcome. Andthat's a big thing, I think. Shift in thinking for financial brand leaders.Yeah, it's to me. I just always I used the My team probably gets sick of mehearing it, hearing me say it. But I I use the term reverse engineering a lot,and and ultimately, I just want to reverse engineer a particular result.And so you're you're masterful at this, is we've you know, we've been workingon your podcast and just seeing how what you've done with your podcast onthe back end of it and the sequence of emails that I got as a guest leading upto this and the question is that I filled out all of that stuff breakingdown. What is the end result? I want to create an incredible experience for theguest that I'm featuring on a podcast or video, Siri's or a blawg articlethat I'm gonna be writing with somebody when it create an incredible experiencefor them. And then I also want to create incredible content for theconsumer. And then I also want to build a long lasting relationship with thisperson that I'm featuring on the show. There is process to be created aroundeach of those things. So things like, you know, creating a form that you haveyour admin or somebody else on your team sinned to every single guest thatyou book on this show so that you know, that preinterview they've been prepped.They know what you're going to talk about. They're good to go during theactual interview itself. You have process around. I know that I'm gonnaask these two or three questions that I know ends up creating really greatcontent. So things like, Hey, what are some myths in the industry right nowthat you just passionately disagree with that tends toe? Be great content.If you get people speaking contrarian and like a fan, everybody's doing this.But you should be doing this That ends up being great content. You can do thatrepeatedly, over and over and over...

...again. If you bake that into yourprocess and you make sure that you ask a question like that every single timeyou interview somebody and then post interview, what am I doing Postinterview To make sure that these people stay on my radar long after theinterviews over maybe every interview I go on, I do a second collaboration withthem. And that second collaboration is really where the friendship deepens. Sowe get him on to do a podcast interview, and then I know three weeks later, I'mgonna reach out, and I'm gonna say, Hey, I'm doing this video series on linkedin. I'd love to just do a one minute video with you real quick. Are you openfor, you know, popping up Skype curbs? Why did I just say Skype? I'm in 2011.Open up, zoom and, uh, and do like a little five minute thing, and we'll usea minute clip of this video and I'll put it on LinkedIn. Now you've cementedthat relationship. That's a process that you can repeat over and over again.Maybe you put them in your CRM, and on their birthday, you send them. You know,Ah, fun gift certificate to a really cool restaurant in the area, or orsomething customized with their logo or their brand on it, that you send themin instead of just sending them swag with your banks logo on it, like sendthem something for their golf club that has their logo on it. And so, doingthings like that, systematically baking it into process ensures that you'regoing to get repeated results over and over and over again. So, no, both youand I have built our entire businesses around process, but I think itabsolutely applies to what we're talking about today. Technology hastransformed our world, and digital has changed the way consumers shop for andbuy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all. But yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financialbrand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have thio because JamesRobert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along yourdigital growth journey visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a previewof his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy rightnow for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategicmarketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it ispacked full of practical and proven insights you can start using today toconfidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to theshow. Well, that is the core definition of digital growth. Digital growth iswell defined systems and processes that have been centered around the modernconsumer journey. To generate traffic to your website, Thio take that traffic,turn it into Leeds and then ultimately convert those leads into loans anddeposits. But you said something key here. This is about an experience, andthen experience is nothing more than well defined systems and processes thathave been defined, applied and refined. That's the key refined over a setperiod of time, resulting in a positive or a negative emotion that's then gonnaorganically move around. Now I think the gap in in thinking sometimes whenit comes to a financial brand marketing team, a sales team and leadership teamis historically if we go back 10 2030 40 50 years, I do X with marketing. Iget why a week later or a month later. But you and I know that the buyingjourney for financial products is an extremely complex one, and sometimes ittakes 60 9100 and 80 days to build that relationship. So talk to me a littlebit about how can I overcome? Take that contrarian point of view to your pointtoe, overcome some of that resistance. Like if I do x well, I should get WiFisend out this direct mail piece. I get these leads for loans. But I had thatsame thinking. If I post this content...

...on social media, shouldn't I get thesame thing? So it's so this is that I love talking about this, James, becauseit's just you and I both put out enough content in the world to know thatsometimes it results in immediate return. Oftentimes it doesn't so I'llshare two stories. I put out a deck on LinkedIn yesterday, and it's got Ithink, 17 or 18,000 views on it. Incredible results. Organic didn't puta dime of paid ads been behind it. I found somebody on LinkedIn that Ireally respect. I synthesis, synthesized three of his big ideas, hadour creative director turning into a deck, put it up, tagged him in it. Heobviously commented on it because he really liked it. It was flattering tohim. Ah, bunch of his followers ended up seeing it produced a ton of resultsor a ton of eyeballs that afternoon. Yesterday afternoon, we ended up havingan inbound lead come in as a direct result of them seeing that deck andbeing like, Hey, could you guys do something like this for us? I know thatyou guys produce podcast. We're looking at producing a podcast. Let's set up aconversation. So I sent him over the Logan on our team director ofpartnerships. And who knows? Maybe that turns into something. Maybe it doesn't.But that's a tangible result off me putting out a deck and it performingwell because the content was actually good and helpful for my intendedaudience. Another story. So that's that's great. That's what everybodyexpects toe happen every time. The reality is that's the exception to therule that rarely happens. If I'm completely honest, what usually happensand this is another story. Earlier this month, we ended up closing a deal witha software company. We're going to start producing their podcast. And thiswoman that was the decision maker at this company we featured on a virtualsummit that we hosted 3.5 years ago. And we featured the CMO who, uh, theyended up doing this episode in like a sauna in there because they were Theywere in some other country where Santa's were a big deal and we createdthis piece of content and Christine is the girl that is now our customer.Christine was on the marketing team of the CMO that I was interviewing forthat virtual summit. The CMO ends up moving companies like a year later, weend up working with that CMO at her other company. But then Christine, asshe graduates and gets, you know, mawr skilled and professionally develops.She is now a decision maker in the marketing team, for for I think she'sbeen a two or three companies since that company where we originally mether. But she is now a decision maker and because we have nurtured thatrelationship with her. I saw her in New York whenever I was on a New York tripa couple years ago. Stayed in contact with her, were connected on LinkedIn.She probably saw the decks that I put out to, uh, she sees the content thatI'm putting out on LinkedIn. I'm nurturing that relationship with herthrough the content we're putting out. And when her new company now is talkingabout doing a podcast, who, who she calls, she calls us. That was 3.5 yearsin the making for that to happen. Now we ended up doing business with her CMOa little bit quicker than that, maybe a year afterwards. But I think even inyou saying 30 60 90 days, I'm like, Man, it would be nice if it always workedout in 30 60 90 days. But if you're playing the long game, and if thesefinancial brands, I think are trying to play the long game like relationshipsare the ultimate long gameplay. And so I think investing in a relationship sit,go back to our example of like CEOs and construction companies. Maybe they justsigned a $14 million loan with another bank of competitors. And you're like,man, they're not gonna need any any more funding for years. Build arelationship with them now because in seven years when they need to take out$100 million loan because they're continuing to expand and you've builtthat relationship with them, I bet you're gonna be pretty dang glad thatyou spent seven years nurturing that...

...relationship. Yeah, and in that pointof that 30 60 90 days, it really is dependent upon whatever product it is,The more complex the product, the longer the buying cycle and commercial.Yeah. I mean, that's a that's a very that could be a multiyear quote unquotedeal in the making. I even think, you know, you're referencing your linked inslide deck Onda. We were talking about him, Chris Walker, because I think evenChris Walker posted something on LinkedIn recently, where he said ittakes 60 to 90 engagements or interactions with his content beforesomeone becomes a client of his. So this is to your point. This is a longplay and and and let's talk about this from a sense of investment. Since we'retalking financial services, I'm using content to invest in the future. Imight not see the result in the present moment, so that's a big transformationin thinking. And so if I'm making an investment in the future, I would takethe analogy of this. It's almost like making a deposit into the trust fund ofthe mind of the consumer, and it's gonna take time. But the MAWR depositsthat you make the MAWR interest. You'll gain the MAWR trust you'll build andwhenever someone is ready to raise their hand saying I need help becausethat was another key word you you use. This is about helping first and sellingsecond, another cultural transformation mind shift right there. So let's talkabout that helping first selling second because this is about taking ajournalistic approach and my take Is this the future of marketing and salesteams will transform into almost like micro media teams? I completely agreewe're actually transforming our service based business into a media company. Imean, we've we've changed how we refer to ourselves as were a podcast FirstMedia Company. Now the bulk of our revenue, 88% of our revenue comes fromproducing podcasts for shows we don't own for B two B software companies thatare a part of our collective shows. They're not. They're not contributing.Tow our content. We're just producing their content. That's the bulk of ourrevenue right now. But the future of our business is in building our ownproperties in building our you know, our show B two b growth. We've also gotB two B sales show the manufacturing show Crafting Culture, The CEO show.We're building these shows in different industries because I believe,ultimately that media companies have all of the leverage because they havethe attention of the consumer. And so, if you can transform your financialservices company, your your bank, your credit union, whatever into the modernday newspaper in your city or your region, the modern day TV show themodern day insert whatever it is radio show, whatever. If you could become themedia hub for your area and deliver helpful content over and over and overand over again, who do you think those people are going to go to when theyinevitably need what you have to offer? Yeah, be the media company because themedia company has the eyeballs, they have the attention. They have the earsof the people within the communities that they serve in the way that I lookat this, people want three things in their life. They want Thio feel healthy.They want to be wealthy, and that doesn't mean be a Brazilian air. But Ijust don't wanna have to worry about money and and and have some financialpeace, and they want to be happy. But where people have that stress is rightthere in the middle financially, and that financial stress takes a toll on aperson's physical well being and their mental well being and where I seefinancial brands and maybe you can speak to this. Where I see financialbrands get hung up a little bit is I think, Oh, I have to operate in thisbox of talking about loans and deposits and checking accounts. I disagree. Youcould become a life. You could become a...

...lifestyle brand, focused on thephysical health and the mental well being. And oh, we also do these loansright, and it's even mawr, even Mawr. So with a financial brand because thename of your business is so overt toe what you actually do. And there's noconfusion around what banks and credit unions dio eso you can get in the worldthat I live in and B two b Tech, all these companies because it's a war fordomain names. They've all got to V s or they spell their name weird. And you'relike, What? You're an analytics platform. What's that really mean? Andso there. So if they take this strategy, it's a little bit tougher for them. Istill think they should do it. But in my world, when our customers arebecoming media companies, they're working with us to do their podcast.They're going heavy on linked in there, putting out all this different kind ofvideo content. They're doing all this stuff, they they're capturing audience,and eventually people will know what they dio. But it's it's harder. Theyhave to be a little bit more direct with, like with This is what weactually do. And this is how we can actually serve you where banks they canput out insanely helpful content and sharing entrepreneurial stories of likesuccessful entrepreneurs in their city, picking an industry and sharing successstories in that specific industry in there. Maybe it's in their region andby nature of what they actually are, as people are seeing this content go outand it's from a bank or credit union, it's weird for people to be like Wait aminute. This bank isn't trying to sell me on doing alone with them or by openup account with them. They're sharing a success story off somebody else in mycity that's doing something really cool. Oh, like this is really fun. I want tofollow them. Yeah, they instinctively know what the bank does like. It's abank like there's no there's no confusion around the value that a bankprovides to the community. But I think there's tremendous opportunity for themto change their thinking around the kind of content they're putting out.Three. Those three words again education, empowerment and elevation.And you mentioned like the two V s. I know that you've spent some time withanother V, Gary V. Um, and I think about this is like a very practicalidea because he had wine library. I mean, that's what, like projected himyou know, into a much of creating the personality that he is today. But I canthink of a financial brand that we've been advising recently, and it comesout to niche markets. I think that's where the community bank has. Thegreatest opportunity is specific niche markets, and for this particularfinancial brand, they have an opportunity to become the bank for beer.People are the bank for people that love beer, and I think about Gary V andyour relationship with Gary V and the opportunities that exist for thisfinancial brand to not do like the wine library play. But they could do almostlike a beer review and truly be the bank for people that love beer. Yes, Ilove that. And and so the other thing that I think people get caught up on isway. Get this. We have to give this advice almost every day with with ourcustomers, especially when when we're branding new shows, our flagshippodcast, it's been downloaded over 3.5 million times. It's called B two Bgrowth. There's a very strong reason why our show we're experts in B two Bpodcast. It's what we do all day, every day. So we think about it. What we youknow, it's what we know. We did not start the B two b podcasting show,which would have been super meta. Anyway, we didn't start the sweet fishmedia podcast. We started B two b growth because the people that we wantto engage with and we want to ultimately buy from us, they'reinterested and B to b growth. They're experts internally in their owncompanies in B two b growth. So when banks stopped thinking about theircontent as the Citizens Bank show and...

...they start thinking about it likeEdmund success and they're featuring, you know, to go back to our joke Astastory earlier, she starts featuring entrepreneur, successful entrepreneursin Edmond that completely changes the focus of that content and makes it waymore interesting. Because if all citizens bank did was talk aboutfinance, nobody would want to listen to that. Because unless you're in thatworld, finances super boring one of our customers there a financial advisoryfirm here in Orlando, and they love working with purpose drivenentrepreneurs. So their show is called Orlando Impact, and they literallyinterview people that are like social entrepreneurs and and entrepreneurs aregiving back to Orlando. And lo and behold, most of the people they talkthio end up being, you know, our great fits to be their client. That's that'swhat they've identified is their sweet spot client. But they didn't make thecontent about finances, and especially in regulated industries like bankingand finance and all this stuff we hear a lot of people say, like, Oh, we can'ttalk about you know, this and this and this because it's regulated good. Youshouldn't be talking about that anyway because it's gonna bore people to tearslike instead talk about, like, talk about something that is interesting tothem that allows you to be the voice of that interesting thing so that whenthey ultimately need what you do, you're the person they come to. Yeah,and really, what you're speaking to is a key strategy that I talked about. Iknow that you've talked about as well is the idea of category creation likelike create a category, own the category B, the bank for people thatlove beer and and that becomes your central. Now we've gone full circlebecause to your point of the of the podcast that you know interviews,purpose driven entrepreneurs, purpose is the North Star. It's what guides abrand Ford it. What's helps them to say yes or no, make decisions appropriately,who were going to help. But more importantly, why are we going to helpthem? James. This has been such an energetic conversation. Look forward todoing this again in the future. Let me end on this. I'm a financial brandmarketing team member. I'm a sales team member. I'm on the leadership team.There's a lot going on right now in this Post Cove in 19 World, but fromyour lens from your perspective of the world, what is one thing that you couldrecommend for financial brand team sales team marketing team to reallyfocus on over the next 12 months, I would say to build a media propertythat is not based on your expertise, but it is based that is based on theexpertise of your most profitable customer. So you're a za bank. Youprobably got lots of different potential customers. Hone in Who's ourmost profitable? Is it construction? CEOs Is it is it Pharma, is it? Youknow, what is it? What what's it look like for us? What is what is our sweetspot client? And then start to build a media property around that specificpersona. And in doing that, it's going to force you to actually interviewthose people and collaborate and create content with those people being apodcast of video. You know, a syriza blogged articles that your team runs,but that that's what I would say their focus should be for the next 12 months.Is building a media property around the persona off their best fit customer,and that maybe we'll take this on another podcast because that building amedia property is such a key? So that's an asset that you own that you canassign monetary value to and and and coming back you own it because youdon't own your Facebook audience. You don't own your YouTube, but you can ownthis media property, and it creates exponential value over time. James.Such a great conversation author, content based networking. How toinstantly connect with anyone you know,...

...if someone wants to connect with you,continue the conversation we've started today. What's the best way for them toreach out and say hello. Yes, so they can reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'msuper active on LinkedIn. Carberry is my last name. So James Carberry C a r ba R Y. You can also email me James that sweet fish media dot com if you want toconnect with me there. But I would love to connect with anybody and everybodylistening to this. And then you could check out the book content basednetworking on Audible or Amazon wherever, Whether you like to readbooks or listen to him would love Thio. I put my cell phone number in the backof the book is well, so whether you listen to it or read it would love tohear from you via text on DSI What you thought of it once again, James, thanksfor joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thank youuntil next time be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you forlistening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley.Like what you hear? Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review onapple podcasts, Google Podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you'rethere to get even Mawr Practical and proven insights, visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to grab a preview of James Roberts bestselling book Bankingon Digital Growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon.Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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