Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 9 months ago

182) #NewStartsNow - Depositing Ideas in the Innovation Jar


Transformation in the financial sector isn’t all about technology.

Creativity and collaboration on a basic human level are key to innovation.

Taking risks can be intimidating, but surrounding yourself with people you trust can ease that fear.

I talked about this with Jody Guetter, Executive VP of Market Innovation for Nymbus Labs, a strategic marketing and innovation unit of Nymbus.

In this episode, we discuss how intentional interaction is crucial to generating new ideas in the marketplace.

Jody and I also share our insights into how we keep our own minds healthy and productive.

Join us as we discuss:

  • The importance of collaboration for innovation
  • Why vulnerability and trust among your team matters
  • How to avoid the roadblock of complacency

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

Innovation isn't technology as a standalone. It's rethinking the way we do things and the tools we use, in the processes we put in place, in the way we solve problems. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Leigh, who believes there is no better time than now to educate and empower financial brands to gain a fresh perspective around future growth opportunities. That's why today's episode is part of the new starts now series, brought to you by Nimbus, who offers a complete set of tech tools and services, all designed and engineered to empower you and your financial brand to maximize your future growth potential. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Lay and welcome to the one hundred and eighty second episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the new starts now series and I'm excited to welcome back a Jodie gut are to the show. Jody is the executive vice president of market innovation for Nimbus Labs, a strategic marketing and Innovation Unit of Nimbus. Welcome back to the show, jody. It is so good to share time with you today. Absolutely wonderful to see you again. I'm looking forward to catching now. You know, you and I had a great conversation going all the way back to episode eighty five and as this is episode one hundred and eighty two, that's almost a hundred episodes to be exacting. That's USOME. I didn't realize you're already up to that. That's phenomenal. Well, you know, time flies right, time flies when you're having fun, and I love doing this podcast because of the connections and the conversations that I get to have, the people who are way smarter than me that I get to learn from, and and really from just the place and the purpose of educating and empowering others. I'm a big believer that, when it comes to things like we're talking about today, innovation, creativity, sometimes you're going to be the student, other times you're going to be the teacher, but there's always a lesson to be learned from within and that's how we get better together. And before we get into innovation, before we get into creativity, let's let's let's talk about what's going well for you. What has been good over the last almost one hundred episodes, since we since we last chatted. What's been good personally professionally? It's always your pick. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we'll have to talk about professionally because the last time I was on the show I was in a different role at a different organization. I want to full organization Social Assurance, as they're CMI is. We talked about some very different types of topics related to my role then. So since then I've joined the Nimbus team, specifically Nimbas last ABS, as their evp of market innovation, and it's an organization I've been watching for a really long time, leadership team that I've admired from a really long time, and so to be a part of that journey with them and with their clients just real. To be a part of that and, as you say, that learning so, so much, which is just been an amazing growth journey for me as well. Now, as you mentioned, you are the evp of market innovation for Numbus labs and you spend a tremendous amount of time thinking about innovation for financial brands. I'm curious to get your take here as we get started. From your point of view, what do you feel is, will say, the biggest innovation opportunity that you're seeing right now for financial brands to either create or capture on there in what's on the top of your mind right now? Yeah, you know, I think that there's been for quite some time now kind of consistent themes, obviously around data and leveraging jet data, marketing and evolution of a brand and Hatand...

...the importance of marketing at financial institutions and obviously the technology that resides, whether that's marketing technology or your organizational technology, your core technology, or online banking, mobile banking experience technology. So I know that those have been kind of facets of innovation that have been at on the top of leaderships minds it for a couple of years now. But I think something that I'm really trying trying to educate and inform and kind of change the way of thinking around that is it starts with a mindset. Yes, cultural change right, that the technology in the process behind that can only do so much and for that to really be impactful and sustainable we have to start with the mindset and organizational cultural conversation first as the catalyst. I'm really trying to like, yes, let's talk about those things as innovative strategies, but let's also make sure that we're talking about the mindset and the people and how do we start there to make sure we have a foundation that's strong to be able to build along. So that's where I'm really focused in right now in my strategic conversations, and I think it's so wise because from what I'm seeing since writing banking on digital growth, it's like we're starting down these paths, we're moving forward, but then something happens in if I was to put a time frame on it, it's typically twelve to eighteen months within their digital growth journey. So I'm called a digital transformation journey, and it is around technology, and I think that's where the big friction runs into play, because we've, in essence, we've forgotten about the human element, not necessarily externally from an account holder perspective, but internally from a people, from a culture, the the people who are having to actually do this stuff day in and day out, and that creates a little bit of tension and friction. So I'm right there with you about this idea of mind, the mindset. That's where really all transformation begins and and when you think about transformation and innovation, that word innovation. Where might others be a little bit confused about innovation? Where is the word innovation within financial services? Will to say, misunderstood? Yeah, yeah, that's a great question, James Robert. We actually internally at Nimbus had a whole conversation about this recently and a message that I was really trying to underscore is that I think, with the evolution of technology and the digitization of our lives, with misconstrued that what innovation means, and now it has become this really unattainable thing that only technologists can play a part is, or only you know if you've got a degree in, you know, data science or it's it's very aspirational thing and I think we've really taken away the concept of it's about rethinking the way you do things. It's about identifying problems and coming up with solutions, and that can be done at all levels of an organization with all different again, experiences and backgrounds, and so I'm really trying to a game think through like innovation isn't technology as a standalone. It's rethinking the way we do things and the tools we use, in the processes we put in place, in the way we solve problems. I want to dive deeper into that because you talk about rethinking the way that we do things. But but I think if we're going to rethink the way that we do things, are doing is informed by our thinking, but that is actually then informed by our feelings and emotions,...

...and so it's this like really interesting dynamic of thought, of feeling, of emotion, and then that inspires action and those actions that get repeated become habits and cultural norms. So in as since it's almost like we have to rethink the way that we think about thinking. I know that sounds really like esoterical, like super high in and even even when writing now, banking on change, my I'm kind of getting some battle of my publisher on this because he's like, you're like really high in the sky on some of the stuff, and I'm like, well, we're going to start really high but then come down really low and make it super practical, because I do think there's a lot of of ancient wisdom, for example, that we can apply in today's modern world, because it is technology is just a tool. It comes down to the habits of allowing for and I think creating that room to be creative to be innovative and it, like you said, innovation can happen in all areas of the organization. It doesn't just happen in technology or on the senior leadership team. I'm working with multiple organizations right now and facilitating these dialogs from like the front line all the way to the top and the top to the bottom, and there's a couple of great books on that subject. Human accuracy is one and then another one is called open strategy, which is, I think, so relevant because I you know, we talked a lot about open banking, but open strategy is is along these same lines that we can invite many to the table to facilitate dialog, discussion, discourse and have just solid conversations about the possibilities. But it all comes down to solving really important, meaningful problems. In your mind, what are some of the problems that we should be thinking about within our financial brands based upon what you're seeing, do the conversations that you're having? Yeah, I'll maybe address this kind of into areas, because I do really want to talk about the even, as you say, the the way we think and the emotional aspect of innovation, and this is something that's really important to me that I strongly believe that there needs to be for innovation and immense amount of psychological safety and and what I and what I mean by that is I do not believe eve that there can be, you know, innovation without being able to be vulnerable. And we cannot be vulnerable and share ideas and thoughts and dreams and aspirations unless there's trust. And so I really think about how we creating that environment where we can trust each other, where we have that safety to be vulnerable, to come to the table and challenge the norm, come to the table with an idea that maybe puts you at risk, yes, and so I think that that's something that's really important to me as a leader WHO's trying to create this culture of like put your biggest, baddest idea out on the wall and let's make it happen kind of thing. And it's just so, so important to me. And I think obviously there's a ton of resources and you know, Brun a brown, everybody hears me preach about Brune like all the time about you know, vulnerability, but it's just something that I think we don't talk about enough. How do we create that environment and that space to think like that. Why? Why is that? Is it is it inherit to what I write as the banker's brain, and what I mean by that it's the it's the analytical brain, the Super Smart Brain. It's all about the numbers. And then when you look at like the emotive brain, i. either creative brain, there's there's I feel there's some tension and conflict just within the brain itself,...

...because bakers are driven by the analytic side of things, numbers, math, whereas the creative brain it's more of that softer, you know, harder to quantify. is their tension there, like just naturally working within the financial services space also add into their you know, the risk aversion right like you know, it is in the banks and credit unions that they have to operate within these certain regulations and requirements, and when you're already feeling like you've got this box that you have to fit into, it's very hard to think outside of that box. And I think that's where, again, we're seeing you more disruptive banks and Fintax and things like that come into the marketplace because they're moving at a much fuss to scale and but they're starting outside the box versus inside the box, and so we need changing that conversation around what is our risk appetite as an organization, what risk is worth taking and what isn't an obviously, we never want to, you know, break regulation. We never want to jeopardize the, you know, safety and security of our customers. But we don't have to be a hundred and fifty percent compliant. We need to be a hundred percent compliant and there's certain risks, particularly around innovation and how do we deliver a superior re experience. That means that we're going to have to rethink the way we do things and it means, to James Roberts, that technology we talked about earlier. Let's not take out people processes and just translate them to technology. Right, take that technology and allow it to work for us in the way it's intended, where we can start opening up accounts in five minutes, we can start delivering the experiences that our clients and customers expect from us as well. That's a great point you make. On the fintext side, moving at a different speed because they're not even in the box. I also see that they're there might be inherent built in Os operational systems or operational strengths from those in the fintext side that come back literally to the brain from the research that we've been doing from the Lens of Colby and, for example, initiating quick start is is a is a entrepreneurial like trait where we're seeing through our research on the traditional income and baking side, they initiate as a factfinder or they initiate as a high follow through and then they're at a resistant quick start. And so you're right, this idea of psychological safety is so key. What might be some roadblocks that prevent an innovative culture from taking root? Because I do believe there are naturally pockets of innovation, there's a naturally pockets of creativity with an every financial brand, and I think the more that we can celebrate that and bring that to the forefront and nurture those pockets, then that has the potential to become kind of cultural norm. But what are some of the road blocks that we need to be aware of and think about that could prevent that from from being the case? Yeah, you kind of you alluded to it as well. As there's pockets, right, and I think most FIS admit that they operate in silos and it hasn't necessarily been intentional. It's a byproduct of how the the products are structured, about how the technologies has been structured. So we've already got that in the full walls of, you know, the Fi and so I think we need... be very, very intentional about how we cross pollinate and how we start to integrate those conversations, because we are. The reality is we do need certain technology to support different business lines, but the people component and the collaboration around that and the internal view of product development process improvement culture, it's not a collaborative one. So we need to be incredibly intentional about how we nurture those programs internally. We need to be incredibly intentional how we create opportunities for dialog, how we share information and data, how we come to the table with new ideas. And it really is creating space. It's admitting that we have a problem. Is I'm being intentional about how we want to overcome that problem and being very discipline and committed and saying this is important. We need to talk about these issues. We need to be able to address these as a unit instead of, you know, these signload. You know business lines. That's a great point you make about collaboration innovation, innovation that comes from creativity. It's a team sport. I believe two minds are better than one. There's an exponential effect when you bring people together, even just two people from two different areas. One plus one has the potential to equal eleven. And it's not a new idea. Napoleon Hill has written prolifically around this perspective of what he calls the mastermind, and a lot of a lot of people think of Napoleon Hill and is thinking grow rich, work and but he's written so much more than that. In fact, he introduced the idea of the mastermind. I it was it was ten years before he wrote thinking grow rich. It was back in I think nineteen thirty. I'm looking at my notes. He wrote the Magic Ladder of success and he noticed about the master mind. I want to get your take on this. When it comes to collaboration, he said, quote, the process of mine blending here describe as a mastermind might be likened to the act of one who connects with many electric batteries to a single transmission wire, thereby stepping up the power passing over that line by the amount of energy the batteries carry. Each mind, through the principle of mind chemistry, stimulates all other minds in the group. Therefore, we have the exponential growth effect when we bring minds together around a common purpose. How can we facilitate this? Coming back to the challenge that's you noted about these internal silos, I think we need to let's like we keep pilling the layers of the onion back, let's address the problems that are holding us back so that we can once again, we have to admit, we have to admit, we need to create some awareness into that there's a problem to begin within the first place. What can we do to help these silos maybe begin to fall to the wayside and that, the end of the day, we're all working towards the same the same objective here? Yeah, absolutely, I love to. I kind of wrote a couple of notes. Then it is some underscoing. Like when you think about that that battery analogy to the energy that it creates and the amplification right at taking one idea and then it just exponentially like growing and expanding upon that. So I love that analogy. You know, one specific pretty tactical in nature, but it's just top of mine for me right now. I'm teaching at a BEA this year and a content course, and one of the the tactics that I'm, you know, talking about is personas and building out personas. Right, and it's very tactical in nature, but it's an example of how sometimes this tends to just reside in the marketing department. Yes, Marketing Persona. Marketing goes through the exercise and...

...uses their data, with their assumptions and builds out these personas and then these personas are meant to inform business decisions, product decisions, strategy decisions, but they've been, you know, kind of siload within the marketing department. And so one of my talking tracks is about even as something as simple, or is perceived as simple, as creating a persona, how can a marketing person know everything about that particular persona? How are you now creating this into a group? Think exercise to where, yes, maybe it's a business persona where the business banker knows the lending relationship and the business side of it, but they're coming in on a daily basis and having transactions with jody, the teller, who's been there for fifteen years and seeing their business grow right. So something as simple as that of like I dantifying. What are some of the core things that we need to know about our customer? Who are the people that know these things about our customer? Leverage the data that we have. So you'll leveraging your marketing team, your business analytics team. Who are the people involved in that interaction now operationally? How are they interacting with the bank and who are the people in the processes that need to be involved with that? So it's something very tactical, James Robert, but I think it starts to really demonstrate how that really should play out in an organization. And if we have more clarity around that audience, then marketing is more trusted now about the decisions that they make because they've understood the PERSONNA that they're really marketing to. Product development can make better decisions because you have a more holistic picture. We can start to challenge maybe compliance and operations because we've now got more information around it. So then the effects of just that simple exercise can start to snowball into other areas of collaboration and therefore innovation. Today's episode of banking on digital growth is brought to you by Nimbus, who believes in creating even better financial services for all that are access, better experiences, better value, all while supporting the entire customer journey. And how do they do this? Offering end to end niche banking solutions that you can buy or build, providing accountability beyond the technology and prioritizing and tactful, intentional innovation, instead of chasing features, ready to transform what is and create what's next. Learn more at Nimnesscom. I really like this example because it is very practical. It's something that that shows how we can bring everyone together. But I also think what it does is when you invite others to the table simply to have a conversation, you're more likely to gain their buy in because of their simple participation. I mean this is stuff that goes back to the elementary school yard. I always talk about creativity. You know, we need to probably go back to be more like a curious kindergartener and look at the world through that lens of just just curiosity. And I've watched my four kids go through this and they're still going through this. Then I always tell them I'm like, the most important thing you can do is learn how to read so that you could always teach yourself something new. It's that idea of what Carol Dewick rights around growth mindset. Change is hard, particularly if it is challenging the status quo, and that can make people feel uncomfortable. And, for example, what you invite people to the table for the conversation, that begins to disarm people. But then if we're if we are changing things internally through innovation, I see a...

...lot of people get trapped in what I call the Cave of complacency. I think covid brought a lot of awareness about how quickly things have changed, are changing and will continue to change. And so how can financial brands effectively navigate the complexity of change that that innovation brings, that transformation brings, back to your point of Berne Brown, with courage and with confidence, instead of just seeking the the false security of the Cave of complacency. Right. You know it's a massive challenge, and especially as we think about community banks and credit unions being these traditional institutions, right, we know that. You know they have higher average tenure for employees. We know that particularly community banks over national regional banks, have a higher average population from it demographics perspective. So you've got some of these roadblocks that are there already, just from a cultural perspective or demographic perspective, inside the fall walls and the outside of the falls. Hmm Right, you know, you've got that there and a gain. You know, let's recognize what we have. But I do think going back to your point around inviting people to the table and disarming them, I think that brings up another really good point of like, when you bring them to the table, what is your objective, what is your intention, and are we setting them up in a way for them to share ideas, share their thoughts collaborate with you as well, and I think that that's something that is really important to be again, I'm using the word intentional about because I think at the pace in which we're going, we have to be incredibly intentional about our interactions and what we want, the outcomes we want out of those interactions. And as a marketer that the creativity comes much more naturally to me because I'm in that space every day, but the CEO or the CFO who are in the analytical brain or in the risk brain more regularly, we have to figure out ways to be able to nurture that. So even things as we think about inviting them to the table to have those discussions and participates. But what do those interactions look like and how we strategically orchestrating those conversations so they are collaborative in nature, so that there is clear objectives around those conversations and then, more important importantly, what do we do with that input to then start driving internal communications, driving training, education, marketing, all of these other kind of internal kind of disidering components as well. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about ideas and turning ideas, an insight into action. In a lot of that comes through just facilitating good dialog discourse. Back to your point previously of you creating a psychologically safe place, like I I in the you know, I do a series called inside digital growth and always in that that that series, that those episodes with the statement the only bad question is the question that goes unasked. And I think you know we a lot of times we don't ask questions about something because it creates a bit of a votable situation like well, if I ask a question, well, that means that I don't know and I think the world is so broad now and banking is becoming so broad. It's impossible to know everything. But if we can bring the best ideas to the table, that's where we once again the mastermind, the...

...battery. We get an exponential multiplier coming out of this. I want to get a little personal here with you. Are you cool with that? Can? Can We? Can we go personal? Yeah, say, the circle of trust right, safely, it is. It is a safe place. But I want, I want, I want to to ask you personally, for others to learn from your own experience. What are some strategies that that you personally use to ensure that you don't get stuck in the Cave of complacency and you're always will call training the creative mind, because I do believe that the creative mind is like a muscle. You you either use it or you lose it, and the good news is if you've lost it, we can train that back into shape. So what are some personal strategies that you use for this? Absolutely, I'll get into specific strategies, but kind of the mindset, you know that allows me to kind of think like that. I learned very early on that I will never be the smartest person in the room, and so I think, demonstrating immense amount of humility, that you don't know it all and you'll never know it all, and that's okay, but create a team and build a team that compliments that and brings unique things to the table that you can lean on as well. So I'm a big believer in creating a team that has diverse strength, that comes from different backgrounds, that allows for a different way of thinking and I think, as a leader, being okay with not being the smartest person in the room and accepting that fact, and I think that mindset has then allowed me to have a great thirst for knowledge, a greater first for looking outside of the four walls of my previous Fi, my job, my industry, the world, my community that I live in. And so I'm very intentional about the content I consume, whether that's, you know, reading books or a newsletters podcast, things of that nature. But I'm very intentional about that type of content and making sure that I'm feeding that creative funnel from different channels, from different sources, that it's not just one source of information you know daily. So that's really important to me. The other thing that's really important to me is to do things that you maybe don't think what. We're so consumed with the professional aspect of our job and kind of the business outcomes related to that, and I think we forget sometimes that we need to really tap into that creative part of the brain and really understanding the brain has certain functions that do certain things and when we're not using them, to your point, it doesn't become part of our daily behaviors, it doesn't come natural. So opening up those parts of the brains. And so I'm a big one that's into music. I'm big into cooking and some people may not think that that's really creative, sitting there and listening to records all afternoon, but it is. And somebody you know thought of something and they create it's something from nothing, you know, and it's having an emotional experience or impact on somebody else. Like that's creativity food. You're taking something and making something from nothing and you're feeding your family. There's a motives that are you know. So I think finding those things that are very, very creative that don't maybe feel burden some right like that you have to sit down and read this a hundred page white paper, you know, but it's something that opens up that part of your brain and your heart...

...and your soul that just makes you think differently, and that's something that's just super hard and personal, but something that's really close to my heart to be make suing that I'm doing on a daily basis. I appreciate you sharing that and and I will tell you this from my own personal experience. You know, I would say in my quote unquote, younger years. And I'm still young, like, like I just turned forty and I am in the business. Just turned twenty. So I've got twenty years of history now of doing this and I will say now, twenty years in, forty years old. I'm more excited about the next, you know, a hundred in and we'll call it a hundred and eighteen years, because in my mind one hundred and fifty eight is is my number. Like you know, I'm gonna get to one hundred and fifty eight. That's my number and and I believe it's possible, but I also think it's you know, it does a couple of things. It allows me to play a very long game, you know, because I do believe, you know, when you're looking for transformation or encouraging transformation, it takes time and everyone will transform at their own pace, which another analogy that I use personally is this is like running a race. It's like running a marathon, and I'm a, you know, marathon runner, although have a run marathons in a few years just with the kids. And you know that the that the time commitment for those long Saturday runs of, you know, three, three and a half hours leading up to a race. Half Marathons, I think, are much more doable. But I look at time like this and I think what you're tapping into is what I call rest and recover because when, when you're running, you have a couple of different activities, you have paste days, and your paste days allow you to train and get prepared for your race day, and your race day is when it you go all in, all out. But you can't have every single day be a race day. In the professional world, you will burn out and you will actually see your creative output drop like a rock. And that's why, after race day, or even even sometimes paste days, you have rest and recovered days and those are days that you just step away, you turn off the professional mind, and this is so counter what we've been you know that the this hustle culture. That's a bunch of bull. I believe in and there are now the scientific studies that are starting to back this up. You know, if you're working more than fifty hours a week, I think I think the number is actually like fifty two. Anything after that is the law of diminishing returns. And so building this into the culture. Back to your point, to create that space and time to feed other parts of the mind, while it seems like that doesn't makes sense, we're not getting any like, quote unquote, output from this person. I think if you play the long game, if you run the good race, that is the payoff over an extended amount of time. But we have to give ourselves that permission first and foremost individually. So I got a question. If you could go back in your own mind, thinking about your own growth journey, your own journey of innovation, knowing what you know now, what would you go back in time and tell your earlier self? Oh goodness, that's a good question. I think you just kind of addressed it too. I think when I started my career very early on, it was like, you know, I was living in Sydney and you know, it was like part of your lifestyle.

It was like your professional career, you're working lifestyle, and it was, like you said, that hustle culture. It was normal to be working just all hours of the night, like constantly, and that's what you felt was like the killer lifestyle, living in the city and doing all of that kind of stuff. And I don't think it got me. You know, the promotions quicker, I don't think it got me. You know, the the pay quicker. I don't think it accomplished you know more right, because I think now what I know and to a lot of the themes that we're talking about today, with creativity and innovation, the quality of the output, right, is what is more important. And and we have to be able to create that space and time to be able to think strategically, think creatively. How are we actually adding value to our interactions, how we're adding value to our clients works, to our lives, to our peers? And when you're so consumed with just going you don't have that awareness and you know, paying attention to new opportunities, new ideas, right, you've just got your blind has on and I think that that really limited my growth earlier on in my career because I was just like go, go, go, and I wasn't necessarily really paying attention right because I was going so fast. And so that's something right now that we're just really being intentional about, James Robert around, let's really focus in on the output and the work and the mark we want to deliver in the market place and how do we want to like what's that legacy rights? Really focusing in on that endgame and then what do we need to do to be able to get there? And it is creating space to think more creatively. It is having more intentional, meaningful conversations to where it's adding value to our ideas, it's adding value to our interactions, and so really thinking through how do we create more value this year, how do we foster creativity and our interactions? And it's something we're just really, really committed to, you know, within our team to today. So something that is really driving a lot of great cultural change in conversations. I'm really proud of that. Well, that's a great perspective in you know, in my mind I think of the for what I call the exponential growth environments, and exponential growth I define is when you're growing personally and professionally at the same exact time. I don't think we can, can can try to like disconnect these two worlds anymore. If you're good personally, you're going to be good professionally, if you're good professionally you're going to be good personally, because there's such a blend. But what's again, it's escaping the doing of whatever it is so that we can review what we've done, learn from those experiences, think creatively and innovatively about what we can do next to make that next round of iteration even that much better. One point there that just kind of struck a chord with me. Yeah, that's all right. What when you don't personal and professional like being blended? You're absolutely spot on. But I think one call out. As a female professional, we struggle with that a lot. We've been kind of ingrained into us this bias that it has to be one all the other, right, like if we're doing good at work, we're failing as a partner or a mother, or if we're doing good at home, like that there's always this like sacrifice, right, like something always if, and so I think that that's as we think about breaking that bias and that culture around that. How do we, as lead is in the workforce. All sorry, help combat that so out female counterparts don't feel like that...

...they're having to that there's this battle right that they like that. So I just I wanted to kind of tap onto that, because we have to stop that. I'm glad you address that because in my mind, I want to see success on both sides of the equationly, so do I, and I think I even think of, like you know, my wife, for example. She's starting to look to go back into the family business, and I can just hear kind of like some of this like conversation and just someone thinking out loud of like now you can excel and exceed on both sides, and that is right there. That is the definition of exponential growth, because we're growing on both sides, personally and professionally, and I think it's now more possible than ever before. We have to allow for that. We have to allow ourselves its individuals. We have to allow that as teams, as leaders, to create that space and time once again, psychological safety brings it all back together. So thank you for addressing that, because it is it is something that is easy to overlook, but it can have extreme impact, both positive. Be a negatively. I want to get real practical as we wrap up here, because there's so many great ideas and insights that you have shared from your own personal journey to the work that you're doing over at Nimbus labs. What is one small action that you would recommend the dear listener take next on their own journey of growth to apply innovation within their organization? Something small, because all all growth begins with a small, simple step. What would that one small recommendation be that they could take next? I've got to to it is I've got to I. First, if you don't already, you need to protect your calendar and you sit be disciplined around that. So time block, and when I say time block, it's not a half an hour for something, it's about I need two to three hours at minimum to work on a particular creative project, solve a particular problem, and you need to protect that calendar to ensure that you dedicate the time to flash out that those types of problems and and ideate over that and and just come up with solution. So protect your calendar, give yourself that time and space and be disciplined around that. The second thing super tactical, but something that I've seen really effective is ask you and your team put up a clipboard, create a channel in slack, whatever mechanism possible. But what made your job hard today? HMM, and just ask the question to your team, get the feedback, get the information and start solving problems, like, as you said earlier on, like what are the questions that we should be asking? They can start to drive some of these cultural chepish. So what made your job hard today? Get that information and start driving some momentum and change around that. You'll be able to get a lot of energy dialog really, really quickly. That just will stop feeding into a bigger movement within your organization. I've got two follow ups to that. To your two ideas and see what we're doing. I love this podcast because it's like we're literally innovating and creating together. We are, in essence, creating a mastermind in real time. Back to your time blocking example, let's connect a doubt from earlier around pace, race and rest. That's a great practical way to look at your calendar. Even though...

I was talking about paste days, race days, rest days. You can time block your calendar to I'm pacing during this time block and I'm racing during this time block and what I would call pacing. Pacing is where you're doing probably more of the administrative work. You're having the calls, you're doing the email, but when you're racing it's what calnewport writes as deep work. That's when you get into the state of flow and you're really making some progress, because it is a race. But you can only race so long before you burn out. You have to come back to pace or you have to to take a rest. So pace, race, rest might be a very practical way of looking at your calendar. The second point, and we are so what made my my job hard. Today I love that idea. But once again very practical, is we coach financial brands to create what's called an innovation jar and and it can be, you know, physical, it can be in slack, it can be in an internet but just having a depository of ideas. As they come to go in and make a deposit in the innovation jar and then every ninety days come back in. Let's review all of the deposits that we've made, prioritize them and maybe we get one or two that we can begin to put some actions around going forward. Over the next ninety days. So really great, great thinking, jody. I Love I love this is. This is a great way to wrap up today's conversation. If someone wants to continue the conversation with you, what is the best way for them to reach out and say hello? Yeah, no worries at all. Pretty active on linked in, so just hunt me down on linked in. jourdy get us, the FMP, I think, is my name. I should probably know that, but jourdie get out, gue ttea or Cera might just shoot me and email at Jay Getta at nubuscom. Happy to chat and, as you say, I've continue to learning from others in the community. Absolutely connect with jody, learn from jody mastermind, even with jody, jody. This has been all this has been a lot of fun, great conversation and thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. You got it. Happy to be as always in until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of thanking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh, brought to you by Nimbus, who is on a mission to bring the people, process and technology together to create new roots to growth for financial brands and enable them to deliver outcomes. To learn more about how you can collaborate with Nimbus to maximize your future digital growth potential, visit www dot nimbuscom. Until next time, be well and do good.

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