Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 11 months ago

66) #ExponentialInsights: Facing Your Fears About Customer Experience Optimization During COVID w/ Sue Woodard

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

"Customer experience" seemed like just another big business buzzword.

Until 2020 hit.

All of a sudden, we were forced to reinvent, reimagine, and revisit the whole concept of customer experience.

We found immense opportunities for growth.

In this episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I talk with Sue Woodard, Chief Customer Officer at Total Expert, a fintech software company that built the first enterprise-grade experience platform purpose-built for the modern financial institutions.

We talked about:

  • The time Sue went swimming with sharks and what she learned about life
  • What holds us back from optimizing customer experience
  • Why you need to press "pause" on digital and have a face-to-face conversation

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.
 

...every interaction that a customer haswith the brand is an opportunity to build trust or a road test. You're listening to. Banking on DigitalGrowth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toeexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings inHello, I Am James Robert Ley and welcome to the 66 episode of theBanking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight, Siri's and I'm excited to welcome Sue Water to theshow. Sue brings over 30 years of financial services and mortgageexperience, along with Strategic Vision as the chief customer officer at TotalExpert, where her focus is on helping customers achieve greater productivityand long term success. That's a bit of a thrill seeker. She's actuallyskydived over Vegas. She's walked on hot coals. She's hardly down Route 66.She's running ragged, are through the desert and has Cage dive with greatwhite sharks, But she claims nothing is more exciting than parenting. Herdaughter in Minneapolis, who just graduated from college. Correct. Shedid. Graduated from college. Buy a house. It's full on adult ing as theysay that Zatz where things get fun and I'm glad that you're joining today forthis conversation. So you know I'll never forget. The first time that youand I met it was in Austin, Texas. It was at the American Bankers StrategicGrowth Conference. I was facilitating a session. You picked your head in theback of the room. I was saying a couple of words and you gave me two thumbs upand I'll never its's seared. It is seared into my memory, and you know,it's been great getting to know you watching just your own personal growth,watching the growth of total expert. But I do have to ask on a personal side,walking on hot coals and cave diving with sharks. What's what's the backstory on those right there? Because I was like that Z interesting s. So Ihave to tell you, I've always had as a bit of ah life philosophy and 99% ofthe time it served me very well, is that I would always rather trysomething. Given the opportunity, I'd rather try something and maybe wish Ihadn't then not try something later on. Wish I had. And so that has led me intoa lot of very interesting places, including the cage diving, includingthe, you know, skydiving, the Harley ing, the Andi. And you know what? Iwouldn't trade a second of it when I think, especially right now, the worldthat we're living in when we can't...

...necessarily go do all the things wewant to dio. I'm really blessed and grateful that I chose to say, Say yesto so many things and opportunities. You know, it's it's It's so good tohear you say that because I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt. If I'm notmistaken, do one thing a day that scares you, and that's actually that'sactually part of Lululemon's, uh, you know, branded mantra on their bagsexactly right. And so to see you live that out particularly like you said.Now it's something that I'm a big believer into. You kind of lean in tothe fears and you learn a lot and speaking about this idea of learningwhen you reflect back on the previous year on 2020 what have been some of thegreatest lessons that you have learned? You know, in the space of marketing forfinancial brands, leadership for financial brands sells for financialbrands of what are some of the greatest lessons when looking back that thatyou've learned and gained? Yeah, I think so. The top one that I would say,is really just the unbelievable importance of the customer journey andthe customer experience. And now that I know that's like all the customerexperience is kind of a buzz word that embodies paying attention to you rightnow. But I think we all got extremely challenged in 2020 on what does thatlook like in really revisiting that and we imagining that? And in fact, some ofthe mistakes I saw people made is when they didn't reinvent, reimagine,revisit, take a look at some of the way that they were communicating. Um, whatthe words were with the cadence was with the channel was that they wereusing if you didn't like pretty early on last year really take a hard pauseand in your sales and marketing efforts, make sure that that customer experiencewas reimagined to suit the new environment that we're still somewhatoperating in. It was a huge opportunity to to make a difference and a hugeopportunity to potentially make some mistakes. And we saw some of both lastyear. You know, we certainly saw some brands that very quickly and very earlyon stopped and said, Okay, people are gonna be coming into branches and alongwith that people are in right now, more so than any time and you know, it leastprobably since 2000 and eight. There in a lot of people are in financial crisisin need education there. Perhaps, you know, if not themselves, one degree ofseparation away from someone who is wondering, How the heck does this P P Pthing work? How am I going to pay my bills? Do I still have to keep payingmy mortgage? What's gonna happen if how do I educate myself? I mean, and andliterally what I think one of the fantastic things was is as everybodylooked at that customer journey and shows how they were going to jump intothat, I think, in 2000 and eight financial services, banks, mortgage,etcetera was we were kind of considered the bad guys, right? Remember being ona flight, you'll appreciate this and and sometimes on a flight, it's my onlytime Thio not talk to someone, right? And just a little quiet time. The guynext we wanted to talk, wanted to talk...

...and he asked, You know, finally he'slike, you know, what do you do for a living? And I told him that I was in,you know, banking and mortgage. And he said, Oh, and he took his arm off thearmrest next to me, put in his headphones and didn't say where therest of the flight. So, um, you know, we were really seen, as you know, justto kind of the, you know, the worst of the worst in 2000 and eight. But thedifference now is that we get to compete the ones to step in andactually buy that education, that knowledge, that guidance that peopleare so desperately seeking. It's funny you talk about being on airplanes andtaking flights, and that is your Solis and I'm right there with you becauseit's like, you know, you go and you're speaking at events. You're you'remeeting people and I'll never forget. It's like the flight home, particularlythe flight home. It's like I just get on the plane. You know, I put myheadphones on and I don't way don't have, like, traditional TV and and anddon't even watch much streaming. We've canceled Netflix. Actually, Now, youknow, in the pandemic we did subscribe Thio Ah, couple of learning platforms.My wife and I masterclass being one, and we've we've actually enjoyedlearning together in the pandemic. But But yeah, you you get that soulless andthat's your thinking time. That's your reflection time. And that's somethingthat I kind of do miss when we think about where at. But I want to focus onthese two areas that you've identified these great lessons customer journey,customer experience. Some have leaned into that, as as we were talking aboutbefore, leaning in tow, the opportunities leaning into some of thefear some have decided toe, maybe just play it safe. Let's look at both sidesof the coin there because customer journey customer experience. They'rethey're they're intertwined. What is holding some back? Do you feel frommaking the transformations needed to optimize both the customer journey andcustomer experience in this post covert world that we're still navigatingthrough? You know, it's interesting that I still hear ah, lot of, ah, lotof financial brands say that they're constrained by regulations from here,like from from truly having a very across the silos within the institutionthat they're somehow constraint. In fact, I'll tell you a story. I will.The bank shall go unnamed. But the bank by bank at I went into And I rememberthat the gentleman telling me the banker telling me very proudly thatthey did not communicate through between their different channels andhey said so you know, the checking account depository. You know, they'renot communicating with our wealth area and that Z that are lending area, and Ikind of pushed him on. And I said, you know, because we're seeing it was quite,you know, a bit of pride. And I said, You know, it actually be helpful for meas the customer, if you did, you know, because otherwise you just knowchecking account sue and credit cards too, and, you know, wealth account suit.But you're not. You don't know, Sue,...

...and you should, because I've beenbanking with you for 30 years, and so he kind of talked about it, but it wasa regulatory thing. Um, and so I question and I would push on how muchof that? You know, it's true. I mean, certainly their fears out there. And Iget it, you know? I mean, we don't have to, you know, name the names of the,you know, the brands that that kind of brought this big issue to light aboutreally inappropriate cross selling and the things that were actually very badpractices going on. But I feel like, yeah, I've addressed them. I'veactually addressed that on on on this podcast because it is e. I think itdoes create a bit of fear for those that you know they want to do the rightthing, but it plant some seeds of doubt in their mind. And when I hear you, youshare that story. I can't help but think that if I was to go to the doctor, Iwas to go to my GP and my GP was like, You know, we don't really talk to yourcardiologists and we really don't talk to your neurologist and we really don'ttalk to your room. We just We're just here, and that would really kind of putme in a precarious place and I would start asking a lot of questions and IBut I think that because there's so much of a correlation and connectionbetween financial health and physical health, how do we get those who mightbe, you know, have some seeds of doubt? How do we get them to transform theirthinking so that they can transform they're doing and apply the necessarychanges when it comes to optimizing customer journeys? Customer experiences?Well, what I would ask the consideration would be or suggest thatit would be is more of a focus on, you know, listening to the customer andbeing responsive to it across all data points that you have versus sellingsomething to the customer that they may or may not want right, because Iactually think that the a little bit more of that siloed approach that theythink is protecting them. Also, it lends itself Thio inappropriatelypushing, You know, a product that may not be appropriate for someone if youdon't have the full picture when you've got all of the data points across thatentire customer. And and there's so much out there Thio that you shouldknow about someone when you could see all their patterns and their credit andtheir history, all these different things I think it lends itself to Ifyou're the, you know, it's like that that phrase to the man with a hammer.Everything looks like a nail, right? Well, to the marketer for, you know,just X channel inside of a bank or ex. You know, business division. Everythinglooks like an opportunity for s thing. You know, you're the auto marketingperson. Everything is gonna look like an opportunity for an auto loan, or itmight be really inappropriate. So I would suggest that looking at it from abroader perspective every single time a big life event happens for someone, italmost always in some point is gonna require their financial institution.You know, somebody is getting ready to...

...go to college. Somebody is gettingmarried. Somebody is getting divorce. Somebody is retiring in all of thosecases, you need the guidance of great financial services firms, and it shouldbe the place where you've got you know, hopefully, most of your yourinformation, your accounts and your assets and so forth, and so would beThink about what enjoy that would be for somebody to be able to know thatand be responsive to your life, events and your life experiences and be ableto serve up the right things rather than either saying the wrong thing orsaying nothing. You know, you've probably heard Joe Well, you say ourCEO say many times every interaction but a customer has with the brain is anopportunity to build trust or a road trust. Every interaction that they haveis an opportunity to build trust or a road trust. And I would would furthersay, sometimes it's not the interaction that you're having. It's the absence ofan interaction. You know it Z. It's about making deposits, making microdeposits into a person's trust bank their trust fund, if you will, thatsits between their ears. It can take weeks, months, even years to makeenough deposits for them to take a specific action and it could takeminutes to deplete that trust fund altogether because of a badrecommendation, a bad experience. And so, you know, I was having aconversation with Jodi, who's the chief marketing officer of Social Assurancethe other day and we were talking about She comes from the retail world, youknow, working in retail, working at Macy's, just as I I mean, you know, mymy last job almost 20 years ago, before, before starting this company wasworking at Old Navy and we had some of the best training. It's illustrating,and it was really about leaning in to the customer literally as they walkthrough the door. The challenge, though, that we see now in the Post go, butthey're not walking through the door from a financial services perspective.What are the opportunities now? Because I you know, we've talked to some of thechallenges. Let's look at some of the opportunities where the opportunitiesto lean into their life to use your words kind of these life moments. I'mthinking about your daughters, you know, she's she's graduated, she's she'sadult ing so much opportunity to help guide her through her life becausemoney. You know, we're finding even through our own primary researchoutpost Cove. In 80 85% of people are saying they're feeling financiallystressed. What can financial brands due to lean into these moments for peopleto take a proactive stance in their life and not the reactive one? We'vebeen so used to waiting for people to walk through the door and raise theirhands saying I need help because that time by that time, it's sometimes toolate. I would say There's a couple different things and, you know, one ofthe beautiful things that everybody...

...listening to this that we all have incommon is we think about these these puzzles, regardless of what your roleis, I would suspect every single person listening to this has relationshipswith financial institutions, right? So we are in and of ourselves our ownlittle secret shoppers way because we could see the problems ourselvesbecause we're engaged with, you know, whether it be a bank or credit union or,you know, whatever kind of lender we could see where some of the gaps are.So I would say that there's a couple of different things in terms of what canpeople dio one of the things And I've seen some brands doing this really wellis, you know, it's like, I don't know if it's a phrase or if it's ah verse.But, you know, sometimes we do not have because we do not ask sometimes purelyasking some of the questions rather than a than making assumptions on thedata that you see. I mean, sometimes we, you know, people get all caught up withbeing predictive and ai and all these things were to guess what it is. Howabout we actually asked some of the questions, right. How about we areasking consumers, You know what would be most helpful to you right now in thespace that you're in? Are you more like this in your life? Are you more likeyou're starting a business? Are you, you know, struggling financially. Needsome help on, you know, budgeting And what you know, foreclosure relief looks,you know, whatever you know, asking some of these questions. Where you outin your life Are you starting a family? Are you getting you know, ask somequestions and and then provide the second big piece of it is beingresponsive and educating. There's such a massive opportunity, education, and Istill see so much information coming out that is promoting. We have thisgreat rate on this thing. I mean, everyone's got a great rate on all thethings right now, like we don't need that kind of messaging right now. Butwhat we need. And I think keeping an eye towards it may be for the personthat you're talking Thio. And it may be one a person who is again one or twodegrees of separation away from that person who needs to hear it and talkingagain, educating, not assuming what people? No, I think there's, I thinkit's a very common fallacy that when you're in a marketing seat, sometimesyou forget after X number of years. You kind of feel like, well, already knowsthis. You know, there's all kinds, people who don't know all kinds ofthings, that the curse, the curse of knowledge, right, right and especiallyis the world changes? Maybe you didn't know it, but it's different now. Youknow, things are changing so quickly, so I just think such a huge focus oneducation is a huge way. I love that you described it as a trust fundbecause it's it's very true. And and that's how you build a relationship.And I you know. And I guess the third thing I would say in addition to thatwould be really making sure with your digital interactions that you're payingattention to what the and utilizing technology that allows you to beresponsive through a variety of different channels. Um, you know, ifthe person seems to be indicating that they'd rather be doing this via text,then you know what? Figure out how to switch to text but not lose theconversation. If the person takes a certain action, it should tell yousomething that you could go somewhere different on that journey with themrather than the old school of. I'm just gonna bang this message on their head10 times. See what happens at the end of it, right? It's it's utilizing again.The technology that is out there to be...

...able to be more responsible, a littlemore intelligent with your communication technology hastransformed our world, and digital has changed the way consumers shop for andbuy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all. But yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financialbrand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have Thio because JamesRobert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along yourdigital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a previewof his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy rightNow for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategicmarketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it ispacked full of practical and proven insights. You can start using today toconfidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to theshow. So I hear a couple of things that I'm gonna synthesize and distill downthese three points. Ask number one educate number to engage number three,and I can't help but think about you know, one of the acronyms that we teachthis this idea of going all in you ask you listen, you learn, and then you canlean in to the problems that people have, and then I'll offer them theprescription or the solutions to their pain points. But what a novel idea tojust ask. And I can't help but think of. You know, I shared some insights aroundthis. It was episode number 57 giving a framework that financial brands can usethat M. L O's can use on the marketing side, the sell side, the leadershipside. The question is, how do you want to grow in your life? And it's anotherbecause I think of acronyms. It's the only way this a D d brain can rememberstuff. So I have tow do word association. So grow its you know, whatare your goals? What are the roadblocks that stand in your way and then one ofthe opportunities that you'd like to create? And we always framed thisaround a specific time period, and I call this the coffee and cocktailquestion. Imagine Sue, you and I are having this conversation. Let's justsay, uh, two years from now we're having, we're having coffee and you'rein a really good place and I ask you So what has happened over your life? Youknow, over the last two years to get you in this really good place and youstop, you pause. You take a sip of your coffee and you think, and you reflectwhat has toe happen for you to feel good about the progress that you'vemade. And, you know, we're doing more training around this. This methodologyof how you want to grow is part as a as...

...a larger part, really. It's it'schanged management, and it's something that we've been working with financialbrands on internally. But we see the same opportunity to use this exerciseexternally toe have conversations with prospective account holders and withcurrent account holders to dig into their unique situation. Because if youthink about what is the role of marketing, what is the role of cellsand what is the role of leadership? They all intersect that were wantingpeople to act. Marketing is wanting to, you know, we have calls to action cells,is wanting to lead to the clothes and leadership is wanting to guide peopleto the future, and it all requires someone toe act and there's anotheracronym. It takes awareness and awareness comes from what? Asking goodquestions. You have to help someone become aware off what theiropportunities are, what's standing in their way, what their goals are. Numberone. The second thing to see what does it take? It takes courage to moveforward and to your point, coming back to your three. We asked to createawareness. We can use education to build courage, and when you haveawareness and increase encourage that ultimately will lead to someone'seventual transformation. And that transformation will happen throughengagement. So awareness plus courage leads to transformation. I love thatI'm taking notes here like this thing. This is good stuff. I love that I'm thesame way I love a good afternoon. So that's Ah, but that's brilliant. Theawareness, the courage to move forward and transformation. And and I loveactually you kind of drilling down in some of the ass point because it itfeels obvious. And honestly, sometimes it's a simple as you know,relationships. I'll have some similarities between the right and it'sIt's largely any great relationship is purely, you know, generally based onrelationship right, especially relation you know, some kind of relationshipwhere trust is in very important to it. It's all about the communication. Andso it ISS asking good questions and then truly listening and understandingWhat is What is heaven for you and what is hell for you? And there's, You know,it's interesting that you reminded me of there's these four questions. Iheard this from a sales trainer a million years ago. His name is escapingthat he was like old school used to use, like the overhead projectors. Some ofyour audience won't even remember those. But you know what I'm talking about,right? Exactly. Uh, Brian, Brian Tracy E. I love him so but one of the thingshe said and talking, I'll never forget this because I think about this a lotwhen I'm talking to current customers and it's just it's helpful is more less.Start, stop. Okay, so it's four questions that you ask somebody thatyou've got a current you know, a current customer. What is it? I couldbe doing more for you. What do you wish? That we would be doing more of less. What do you What do you wish youcould be doing a little bit less of...

...what's going on right now That that youwish was happening a little less What am I not doing it all right? Now thatyou wish I would start doing, you know, just a gap. Where were we haven't donesomething. You want us to start doing it and what's happening right now thatyou wish we would just stop doing it all together more or less not Stop forextra fun and bonus points, bringing home to your spouse apart. You know,these air exciting, you know, fun questions. But they're really goodrelationship building questions. And I think, why not even be thinking aboutthat with our customers? I mean, they're they're they're full ofinformation when you ask them some of these open ended questions, you know?And I think this is the challenge for the dear listener. When was the lasttime that you in marketing cells or leadership you created the space tostop and pause to stop doing digital to stop and pause to have theseconversations? Because I think we get so caught up in the doing thetransaction we need to do Mawr and Mawr and Mawr and and and and to this point,you know, you add things to your quote unquote to do list. You shared aprofound linked in post recently to start the new year, which was, insteadof, you know, to do, listen, adding more things to the to do list, youwanted to take a different approach and making a not to do list or what I calla don't do list. Can you expand upon this thinking because, you know, thismight be the Onley Way that marketing cells and leadership teams can createthe space and time to have some of these very, very powerful conversationsthat build relationships which ultimately build trust. And this takestime? Yeah, yeah, well, it's interesting cause it goes back to aconversation we're having before we started our our official interview here,right where I tend to be a person, maybe like a lot of folks listeninghere, who I say yes to things right. And so I say yes, opportunities we'retalking about, you know, like skydiving, cage diving with sharks and Harley ing,and you know some of these different things, but I tend to say yes to a lotof things. And one of the things yes I've had to be extremely disciplinedabout is what to say no to because the phrase I used is behind every No, is abetter. Yes. And Warren Buffett says that the most successful people in thisworld are the ones who say no. These are the difference between thesuccessful in the really successful. Are the really successful say no toalmost everything. And what that does is when you think about so behind everyknows about her. Yes, meaning if you really just kind of positive. Veryintentional about what are you doing? And how are you spending your time? Andare you just doing this because you're just in the you know you're in the fray,you're in the church and you're just doing the thing because the next thinghas to go out, you know, and being able to just pull up even for a day.Sometimes people say I don't even have a day to do it. Well, imagine you gotsick. You suddenly have a day. So just pretend you're sick, have a day andstop, and really critically look at...

What are you doing and what are thethings that you need to stop doing to create the space, to do the things thatyou should be doing? And I think in a lot of cases people probably know someof the things that they like to be doing that they should be doing. Maybeit is asking some questions. Maybe it is educating, but it's I I think it'scarving out the time to be very intentional rather than just continuingdown a path that we're just doing the thing that we do because this is thisis what we dio and part of that I would say, You know, one of the things wecertainly did it at Total Expert and I would highly encourage people to do, infact, the beginning of years, a beautiful time to do it is really mapout. What does that current customer experience look like? And people that Iwill talk to sometimes get super hung up on Well, I got to find the rightsoftware, the right journey, mapping tools, I tell you, know what got astack of post it notes and a Sharpie and just do it, you know, map out foryour wallet. Hackley. Exactly. It does not have to be super complicated, butvisually, you start to see the gaps immediately. Right? And then once yousee that, then you start saying Okay, there's a gap gap, gap. Let'sprioritize those gaps. How do we start plugging them in and then reallydocumented? You know, it's another big thing we did is way, really. Once wesaw we have plenty of gaps in our own journey, right? But documenting. Whatdoes your customer plan look like? You know, and I just think of everyfinancial brands, doesn't have the ability to kind of pull out their planand say, This is what our customer, our ideal customer journey and customerexperience really looks like. And if I would also really encourage people tothink about critically about what the experiences and test it, not just whatyou think the experiences, because you're sending out the things and youthink that their land, yeah, there's that's where the objectivity comes in.That's where we've been doing so much more digital secret shopping studies.And they're so enlightening because we have a perceived like awareness. Or,you know, perception is reality. that we think something is happening, but inreality it's really not. And that's creating a lot of pain on coming backto Joe's perspective. You know, it's it's it's depleting the trust bank. Andso when we when we think about this idea of customer journey, customerexperience, we've had a lot of good, very practical things that we couldstart to apply. For example, the Post it notes, The White board. This doesn'thave to be high tech. It could be low tech. But that low tech begins tocreate a high touch experience when it comes to customer journey. Customerexperience. What is a common belief that this industry has around customerjourney customer experience that you just passionately disagree with? Ah,belief this industry has that I passionately disagree with. Yeah, like,what is a common belief that the industry has, with customer journeycustomer experience? E. Guess I would say that that that they're the hero oftheir story, right? I I would say that I viscerally disagree that the bankcredit union, the tech company, whoever it is that you are the hero in yourstory. This really disagree with that...

...your customer is the hero of the story,and you can only have one hero in a story. And it's not about you. It isabout your customer. And there is such a glaringly missed opportunity, in myopinion, to raise up customers and tell their stories. That is the most. I mean,we're both, you know, we both do a lot of reading. That's what's compelling.Human beings are like it's in our DNA that we're attracted to stories, right?You're attracted to stories you're attracted to faces. I think thisgenetically goes way back in our history with how we're wired. And sooften those opportunities there just missed. Tell a story. Tell a storyabout your customer, your customers, the hero, and I still like I said,we're all part of our own kind of secret shopping enterprise Just becausewe've we've got we. We all have bank accounts in different places. Think alittle bit about the stuff that you get from your financial institution doesn'tgrab you. Are you already like this before even open it? I know this isprobably not gonna be interesting. It is so true. You know, that story andnarrative has been such a big personal study of what we've done over here overthe past. Going back, really. We started that study four or five yearsago out of frustration, of going to speak at conferences, in the hearingspeakers from the stage. You know, you have to tell a better story, and itmade me mad. Well, what? That's great, I agree. But what does that look like?And so, you know, doing a lot of Panther anthropological studies, youknow, going back and reading narrative structure and literature structure.Joseph Campbell's The Hero with 1000 Faces. There's so much opportunity, Ithink, around this idea of anthropology and specifically digital anthropologyto inject some humanity back into the digital experience. If there's onething if there's one thing that you could recommend financial brandmarketing cells and leadership teams to really commit to because it's not aboutadding 10 things. Thio the to do lists What is the one thing that you couldrecommend when it comes to optimizing the customer journey and the customerexperience When we look out into the future, what would that one thing be? Iguess it would be just to keep an unrelenting focus on that customerexperience, and I know that that sounds broad. But what I would tell you is toyou can use that as a North Star to get out everything that you're doing. Howdoes this add Teoh? You know the experience for a customer that'sactually, you know, sitting there. Is this really going Thio? Engage them? Isthis really going to help them feel more engaged with us? Is this reallygoing to make any meaningful impact on them? What does this do for them?Because again, I I and I could just gauge this by, you know, the marketingthat I receive and probably lost folks listening. And hopefully lots of youwere doing better. If you're here, you're probably very smart financialmarket, or I'd like to say, but but really being so thoughtful about whatplace does that plan does that...

...interaction build trust, or does iterode trust and keeping That is a central focus. There's so many thingsthat are outside of our control, really. Just I feel like, you know, maybe it'snaive to say that the numbers come, but when you put your customer first andyou are communicating with them and really putting yourself in their seatand operating with huge empathy for for what they're going through on what theywant and what they need and how they needed. And always gauging with that isyour compass in your North Star. I feel like the metrics and the money willwill follow. Absolutely put people at the center of all of your thinking. Putpeople at the center of all of your doing, and that will then lead to theopportunities required to maximize the financial brands digital growthpotential. So this has been such a great conversation today. Thank you forall of the knowledge. Thank you for all of the insights that you have sharedwith with listeners. If anyone is listening and they have a follow upquestion, they want to connect, they want to continue the conversation withyou. What is the best way for them to reach out? Say hello and find you? Iwould love that. You could certainly email me a suit dot woodard W 00 D a rD. No second w suit dot woodard a total expert dot com or follow man Lincoln.I'm pretty active out there, as are you, sir. And we'd love to see out. There ispart of a Greek. Absolutely, Absolutely. Everyone is always welcome. Sue, you'redoing great, Amazing work, You the rest of the total expert team. I wish youguys nothing but the best and thank you so much for joining me on anotherepisode of banking on digital growth. Thank you, as always, in until nexttime be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening toanother episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley. Like whatyou hear. Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on Applepodcasts, Google Podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you're there. To geteven more practical in proven insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com tograb a preview of James Roberts bestselling book Banking on DigitalGrowth or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside,you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 keyareas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times moreloans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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