Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

167) #ExponentialInsights - Why Honesty is Essential in Your Growth Journey


Sometimes you just need to hear the brutal truth to motivate you to take action and achieve your full potential.

Twenty years ago, my guest delivered a brutal truth that launched my journey of creating the Digital Growth Institute. My wife, Delena Dow Lay, told me my band sucked.

In this special episode, we look back at the beginnings of the Digital Growth Institute and the lessons we’ve learned along the way. Whether you’re in marketing, sales, or leadership at a fintech, Delena has wisdom to share with us all.

Join us as we discuss:

- The value of being honest with ourselves and experiencing failure

- Why it’s so important to reach out for help when you get stuck

- The need to disconnect from tech to reconnect with ourselves

- The origin of “Be well. Do good. And make your bed.”

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

If you're not honest with yourself, there's no way that you'll ever grow, because you will never realize the truth. You'll be covering up things, and covering up is the worst thing that you could possibly do. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Leigh, a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Laigh and welcome to the one hundred and sixty seven episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome a very special guest to the show today. This person has, in fact, provided me with exponential insight and wisdom, as this person has been with me on my own journey of growth to build and grow the Digital Growth Institute over the last twenty years. That's why this is a special episode because in fact, it was twenty years ago, on February eleven, two thousand and two, I founded what would go on to become the digital growth institute because of this person, and that's why I'm excited to welcome to the show my wife, Delina, who is my best friend. She is a woman of Valor, of Wisdom, of noble character. She is God's blessing to me, an angel without wings. She is my helpful guide and an amazing mother to our four beautiful children. Delina has been my ride or die. She's been by my side on this journey since day one, and so, since starting this journey twenty years ago this year, this month, I thought it would be fun to take you behind the scenes just a bit to learn from Delina, as I have, because I know that she can help us all grow on our own journeys of growth, whether you're in marketing or cells or leadership out a financial brand or Fintech, Delina has wisdom to share with us all. So welcome to the show, Delina. Thank you. You know you have the distinct honor of being my first in studio guests. No one has ever joined me in the studio in person before. So I am glad that you are here today. I'm happy to be here, but I'm going to tell you I'm not going to go easy on you just because you're my wife and that doesn't mean that you can escape the first question that I ask every guest, which is what has been good for you since starting two thousand and twenty two? I think it would be more on a personal level. would be more so our relationship. I think that we've kind of started fresh on multiple levels. So it's been great, refreshing, I would say, for the beginning of two thousand and twenty two. What would you attribute that to? That will call it that refreshing? Maybe a renewal because I think for context for the dear listener, we we've been married almost sixteen years. We've known each other since our freshman year of high school, First Day, first period, Miss Bungoes, English class. Now we were not high school sweetheart. So I think that's very important to let everyone know. Yes, and and we'll get and we'll get into that story and a bit. But what we do you attribute that renewal to? I would say for the most part I'm very positive person and that whenever your environment changes, it's hard to...

...stay positive throughout the whole time. And when you personally are going through ups and downs, I go through them as well. It has been not my it has it has not been natural for me to adjust to other people's personality. But because you and I are husband of my it's I think that's why I have incorporated. I am in intuitive and so I feel things for you when with you, but it's been it's been hard for me to to go from my ups and for with your ups and downs and normally whenever I'm normally happy. Yeah, I would say, and I would say it's your intuition that I have come to value the most, because you see things in I would say, even more feel things that I might not be aware of. Even though you're not in the quote daytoday operations, you have played such a key role behind the scenes and we've had many late night conversations and we'll call them coaching sessions, truth telling sessions. And I wanted to just stay on the subject for a bit because you mentioned environment and the role that environment plays when it comes to growth, because, as Dr Benjamin Hardy, who has been a guest on the podcast. He wrote a great book called will power doesn't work, and the whole thesis of that book is about how the environment is stronger than anything and our will power will eventually diminish. And so if we're wanting to make a change or for wanting to transformer, for wanting to grow, what role does environment play? And I think that's an important subject for the listener to maybe just explore a little bit together. Here I think it's important to first step back. I'm usually like up in your face kind of person. I think through marriage and through handling you, I think it's been to the point where I've had to sit back and watch. And you know, we've had discussions of if we had to lose a sense, would we lose our eyes or our ears? You say you'd rather lose your sense of sight and I would rather lose my sense of hearing, because I feel like my eyes whenever I sit back and stillness and watch. I think that that's where my intuition comes into play, because it is silent, but my eyes are still operating and I see things and I'm open to hearing what God has to tell me. And regards to our relationship, and such, but you know, and then in regards to you, you would rather have your sense of hearing before anything. So yeah, and I think that's where you know it's a it's a complimentary between the two of us. We have the eyes, we have the ears, and those are both very powerful senses. And when it comes to what you touched on, you mentioned silence and just sitting and being still, and I know for me that's a big challenge because I'm always moving and only if you're not moving your mind is moving, right, and it's nice to sit and be still with our minds and our physical self as well, right, and I would say like for the dear listener, that's something that we can all take away, because covid in us and says, forced us to maybe slow down and to sit and be still. But I'm curious to see what happens over the next few years as things, quote unquote, open back up and new habits begin to form. We must not lose the ability to sit and be steal with ourselves, to just simply listen and reflect. We're get so easy, we get so caught up in...

...the doing. What's your recommendation to Lena to be steal to be quiet, to just simply listen and reflect, because we can learn a lot from that experience. I think it would be the same advice I give you, James Chopper, which is stopped listening to podcasts all the time. Drive in the car without listening to anything. You're not you're not you're not helping, you're not read, you're not helping my listenership. But no, I think I think there's there. It's true. I think it's definitely true, because I do. It's I am plugged in a lot. It's important not to be able to write like so a lot of people want to sit down and write or read or you know, and I think those are all important things, but I think that in order for us to absorb all this information that we're getting, we need to be able to sit still and be comfortable with ourselves, rather than picking up our phone or picking up a tablet and looking at it or picking up a book or writing. I think it's so important just to sit and be still and be comfortable with self. I think a lot of people are not comfortable with self and it's so important to be comfortable with self. Yeah, we're going to we're going to come back and touch on a couple of those points about the self, about the ego, about disconnecting digitally. And before we get get too far ahead, I want to come back and set the stage for a little bit of context with the deer listener. And let's let's hop into the time machine to the delirians of our mind. Let's go back to February eleven, two thousand and two. It was seven months actually after eleven and Deliana, you and I were both sophomores in college at Sanjack College and passing into Texas. We were studying in the library together and and that was a fateful day because it was a day that you told me something which I've come to frame as the brutal truth. That really inspired me to take action, to take this journey that we've been on for the past twenty years. You can always count of me for the brutal, honest truth, and well, I do. I think that's important. I think it's easy to lie to ourselves and if we lie to ourselves, then it's easy to lie to others and that just takes us down a very dark path to where we don't we're not able to achieve our full potential. And so what was the brutal truth that you told me on that that day? What? Let's let's just, let's just rip the bandaid off. I said your band sucks. I said you got to stop this and do something with your life. Yeah, and because at the time I was I was playing in a punk rock band, it was more so his voice that was terrible. He cannot sing. He can plain an instrument, but he cannot sing. Yes, and and that is that is true, but it's punk rock. So you know, it's okay. We were able to get by with it a little bit. And and I think what inspired me was you told me the truth and you didn't hide hide anything, you didn't pull any punches, and I've come to appreciate that greatly over sixteen years of marriage and, you know, even before this, because you came from an entrepreneurial family and I didn't have that experience growing up. There's a Great Book Rich Dad, Poor Dad, that really speaks to this narrative of what I've experienced. So what's the backstory for you with this entrepreneurial family, of going out and starting something and inspiring others along the way? I think as an entrepreneur coming from an entrepreneur home. You have to be extremely confident and even if you're not confident at all times, you have to be able to take risks and in those risks is where you experience life and you you can't learn without failure. So I think that failing is such a beautiful thing because we've we've gone through... and downs, you and I, and I know my parents did. I think it's it is something that you have to take risk. You have to be honest with yourself, and I think being honest with yourself, you know, we've talked about a lot of people either love me or they hate me, and a lot of it is because I'm honest and a lot of people who don't mind me don't like the truth. But I am so honest that, you know, I'm even honest with myself to the point where it's it can be detrimental to myself or the people around me, because they don't need to hear that, especially like our children. I'm so honest, you know, but I think there's a nice way to come about things without being so brutal. But I think that being honest with yourself and having those failures is something. Those are those should catapult you to the next level because you're learning from those failures. I think you hit on a couple of points I want to come back to. You talked about failure and you talked about telling the truth, and telling the truth is something that I've learned the hard way over the years. I would say, more than anything, it's telling the truth to myself, and I've spoken about this on the podcast and it's going to be a key part of the next book banking on change that I'm already writing, because for any type of transformation to happen, transformation that leads to future growth, I say it always starts with three things, and the very first thing is to tell the truth, first and foremost to ourselves and then to our team, about where we've been, where we're at and where we could possibly go next. Let's say, on this point of telling the truth, you know you, you've have have seen a lot coming back to your eyes. What is it that holds us back as individuals from telling the truth to ourselves? Why? Why do we not do that? What are we what are we afraid of? You're worrying about what other people think, and I think that's so important that you should not care what anyone else thinks. If you can put your head on your pillow every night and know that you did the right thing every single day, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Yeah, and and that gets into this point of felure that you touched on. You mentioned you know you saw this through your parents experience, and I think it's important to know your parents came to the United States, they actually met here, they came separately from Lebanon and your dad started a business back in one thousand nine hundred and sixty four and you watch that experience through them and the failure and the success. There's beauty in both and I think you know in financial services, in banking and credit unions, failure is a it's a challenge because the natural operating system, as you know through the work that we do with with Colby and the Colby assessments, it's failure. Failure is and can be very challenging because financial services is very risk averse. But we're seeing on the FINTECH side and an explosion of fintech growth because I would say Fintech is being driven from more of an entrepreneurial perspective. How can the dear listener, either themselves or their team, their organization, transform the perspective of failing from being viewed as a negative to being viewed as really a positive. As and this gets into the deeper level of growth mindset. I think that whenever, for example, whenever you have a child and that child reverts backwards, it's usually right before grows spurt. So it's just like used to get set back slightly and then you catapult forward in same thing again. You're...

...going to keep doing it. But every child is the same thing, the behaviorally and, you know, sometimes emotionally as well as well. So I think that whenever you a child is setback, starts behaving like younger or it's usually a setback. You feel like it's a setback. Think of a failures, a setback, a slight setback. But then what happens after that? It's right before growth period, if you allow it. I think it's so important to allow yourself to grow without being scared, because change is a wonderful thing. Change is good, it's exciting. Whenever you do the same thing over and over again, it's so boring. So what's to be scared of? Yeah, and I think that's where, you know, we look at the whole covid experience has been a forcing function that has forced us to change and to grow and to come out of our own caves of complacency and experience new things from a different Lens, from a different angle. This idea of experience is one that I would just want to touch on you and when it comes to just your father and his own entrepreneurial growth journey, I know some stories of extreme failure, things that even touch into kind of some of the banking space and loans back in the S. would have been maybe the top one or two greatest lessons that you've learned from just watching your father and his own journey of growth that he's taken over the last fifty years or so. I would say the few things I have learned from him are you can do whatever you want to do, I know that there's going to be some work behind it and some failures and then also, I think, I think putting in your mind that you're going to succeed and knowing that you're going to succeed and not having any other options to succeed is what why he succeeded. He came here, was nothing and he did well for himself, and he did that because he put it in his mind and he wasn't going to take no for an answer. And obviously, you know, with him having all of this, the support of his wife, my mom, would definitely not have he he would not have been as successful without her by his side, because she was supporting him every step of the way, and I think that's that's an important point to make for the dear listener. Going through any type of transformational growth, whether that be personally or professionally, or at your financial brand or at your Fintech or with your team, it requires a team effort. It requires collaboration because, as we were talking about before, you would lose your ears and I would lose my eyes, but we would still have a collaboration to make up for each deficit with our own unique what I call growth ability. And growth ability can be defined as really three things. Number One, do you have the capability to do something? And, if you do, do you have the confidence to maximize that capability, because I think capability and confidence are separate. Sometimes you might have the capability but you lack the confidence. And then I think the third point is, do you have the capacity do you have the time to apply the capability confidently, and so a lot of confidence can be rooted in just experience and where you have succeeded and in the winds that you've gained, which is why it's important to back to your point, to take time to just stop, to sit still, to reflect, and I want to do that for you with you just for a bit, looking back over the last twenty years. What what have been when it comes to what what we're digital growth institute has come from? What have been some of the biggest positive moments, the biggest winds that have stood out in your mind, behind the scenes and just your own perspective? Well, I think that whenever it's really been our failures, the extreme failures, like when you've hit the ground and you didn't know where to go, I think...

...that those have been the ground the greatest. That's called a rock bottom. Rock bottom pretty much, yes, and then we've catapultage from there. I think it those are the best times because you feel like you're you can't see the light and then eventually it's all light. It's a wonderful feeling. I mean we've been through multiple phases of that. Multiple well, you know I think it's in it's interesting because we're we've got a ten year horizon line. You know, we're we're twenty years into this journey and the first ten years were interesting. I would say the first four years it was you know, I was twenty years old. Would spend a lot of late nights programming, building websites. It was fun, it was a learning experience. And then we got married and then we started having kids and it was like, as the family grew, the business was growing and I didn't really know how to handle it all. And so in two thousand and twelve we came to a bit of a headway and you once again that brutal, honest truth came out and you told me that I had to make a choice between it's the business or it's the it's the family. In you were a hundred percent right. I was definitely not being the husband and father that that I could be and and I don't even think I was being the their sing the ought entrepreneur yet to under the person you're right, that I could be. And so it hasn't been all peachy. It hasn't been all rosy, because you said you got to make this choice and I think that that was a that was a a definitive moment, just as almost definitive as a February eleven two thousand two in the library. That was that was a second moment there that we planted a flag in the ground and said Hey, we've content turning point again, right. But I think the difference was is I needed to reach out for help and it was my pride, it was my ego that I would say, got in the way because, as Ryan holiday so eloquently writes in his book, Ego is the enemy and, as ancient wisdom teaches, pride goes before a downfall. How important do you think it is for one to reach out for help when they get stuck on their own journey of growth? Let's just start with that. Let's just start with that question. How important is it that you fill people reach out for help when they get stuck on their journey of growth? I think that a lot of times the help is right there. It's whether or not we want to see it, and it could be family, it could be co workers, it could be a friend, but I think that a lot of times people, those people step back and watch, because my philosophy is is you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, and until that point that they decide to be helped can they grow. So that is so important. And in if you need to seek professional help, you seek professional help, and that's where we were at that point. Yeah, that's where I called in David C Baker, who's written a fantastic book, by the way, called the business of expertise, and it's a big area that you know. He helped me see things different and I think that's that's and then we ended up in marriage counseling as well. You know, we needed we needed help on that front because there's a lot of mending to do. There was and I think it's it's being okay, not being okay and then reaching out for that help, knowing that it's there. And I see the same thing when it comes to financial services, when it comes to money. You know, people are struggling. We know the stat eighty five percent of people are struggling financially. They have they're feeling financially...

...stress. It's just a matter of whether or not they know that they can reach out for help. I think there's a lot of shame that's tied to that, to write it's asking for help. Yeah, Oh, I'm sure it is, because it's your ego in the way. And really, if you want to grow, your ego cannot stand in the way, because your ego will not allow you to grow. Yeah, and so when we look at that, this idea of reaching out for help, reaching out for guidance, I want to flip this around to some of the big lessons, because we reached out for help. I reached out for help with David, we got into marriage counseling. We were able to work through a lot of the the struggles, the issues, even some of the the addictions. And what what have been some of the big lessons that you would say that that we've learned over the last twenty years that might be a value for the dear listener who is going through their own journey of growth and transformation, because change, change is hard. I know for you you say it's easy, but but when we look at everyone else, it can be, it can feel like a bit of a struggle. So what would be some of the lessons, reflecting back over the last twenty years that might be a value to help others? I think the biggest thing is being honest honest with yourself. Forget everyone else. Forget everyone else. If you're not honest with yourself, there's no way that you'll ever grow because you will never realize the truth. You'll be covering up things, and covering up is the worst thing that you could possibly do, because you're lying upon lying to yourself or to others. So you can have this great idea, but if it's based on lies and if you have no solid foundation and that solid foundation is cracking or corrupt or whatever the case may be, you're never going to be able to build anything on a cracked foundation and eventually it will crumble. Yes, and we you know, we have spent countless late nights talking business behind the scenes. You, you are now all, the CEO of the lay, the the house of leg, the house of lay. That's right, you are the CEO of the House of lay. And but your you have so much wisdom from just your own experience. Before you you were working at your father's company and running a part of that business. And I do enjoy coming up and creating new new ideas and new models together that that I end up teaching and coaching other financial brands with, and one of them back to your point of a strong foundation is the pyramid of human relationships, which is made up of three levels. And at the foundation of any relationship, as you and I have experience and of talked about and even in the marriage prep that we do for other couples, at the foundation of any strong relationship is is respect. And so in between that, though, the next level is trust, and trust is built on two things. It's what you say, it's what you do, and then at the pinnacle of that it's Love, and love we can dissect in multiple ways. We can look at the ancient Greeks, we can look at the DGI perspective, which is really just commitment for conversion and a buying cycle. But why is respect so important for any relationship? Because I think a lot of times when I asked this question in trainings as people like what's what's at the foundation of every relationship, and they say trust, and I said, well, that's that's that's a part, that's an element. But why is respect at the foundation? I think respect comes to we, even if...

...we have our differences in business or personal whoever that might be, has a lack of respect, you will never be able to trust that person. That you have to have respect, a mutual respect, even if you do have differences with that person, before you can ever trust that person. And I think that once you trust, then you can love and we can love. Love is so powerful it goes across boundaries. So, whatever the case may be, even if we have our differences, you can still love someone, you can still care for that person because you have the respect and the trust. First, respect first, trust second, and then love after. Yes, and and and love is is a great point, you know, because it's it's a choice and it's something that we can look at at some of the ancient thinkers in the Stoics, same times, the Quinas. He he references love as willing the good of another person, and I think that, to me, is so powerful, particularly when it comes to financial services, because we want to see that other person succeed financially, knowing the stress that it's that that that finances and money is taking on their relationships with loved ones, on their health, their physical health, their mental wellbeing. And so it was good being able to put this model in banking on digital growth, because it really is a key element to all the other models that get connected back to this, particularly with the belief that if you put people at the center of your thinking and doing, everything else begins to fall into place. But back to your point on ego, it's when the EGO and the narcissism kicks in. Narcissistic marketing is something I speak out against a lot when it comes to financial services. I want to go I want to ask you a question about the book, because I get I get this question from time to time and I laugh when people ask it. But we'll just we'll get it straight from you. Will get the truth from you. Have you read banking on digital growth? No, and the reason for that is, I tell everyone, the most important thing is the very beginning, who it's dedicated to, and the end, which is discussing the whole process of how it all happened. But no, I have not. I have not read it. Probably I don't plan on reading it. Let's put it this way. It's not on my nightstand. So if it's not on my nightstand, it's not in my and my plans to read. But no, I haven't. A lot of it is we've lived it. Everything a lot of the ideas or ideas that we've discussed and the basis in the foundation of the book is a lot of things that we live through as a couple. So I don't plan on ever reading it. So it will there. You got enough of it that you you don't have to read it because you have lived it and you are continuing to live it, and I think I think it's just funny when people ask me that. What is your wife think? And I'm like, well, she she hasn't really read it, but but she's definitely a big part of of the whole process and I think that's another key element to when it comes to relationships, when it comes to you know, personal or professional, even this whole idea of experience. The front stage is only as good as the backstage and you definitely have played a tremendous role in the backstage, Delina, and I thank you for that. And one of the elements when it comes to the backstage is you talk a lot about disconnecting, disconnecting from the digital world. This has been a you know, quite transparently and truthfully, it was a big struggle for me when it came to some addictions back... you know, two thousand and ten, eleven, twelve, and one of those being twitter addiction. Yes, it is real and it's one that I'm hoping, just by speaking out on my personal experience here, that others may gain some self awareness of, may gain some clarity of. But what's your take on the need to disconnect from tech so that we can reconnect with ourselves first and then, second, with those around us? Well, I tell everyone all the time, like an eight year old with technology, I don't really like it at all. This is actually out of my comfort zone being here. So I I'm a kind of the s and the s are a wonderful time played outside. You know, the only technology we had was, like say, a genesis and Nintendo, and other than that we would play outside and do fun things, crazy things that kids don't do these days. So I feel like also, and for an adult health, I think that being childlike and playing and having fun not worrying about what everyone else thinks, is so important. And I'm not much on technology anyway. Well, it's a big part of the creative process. I've talked on the podcast before, you know, being a curious kindergartener. It's part of just continuous learning so that we don't think that we know everything. There's always room to learn, meaning there's always room to grow. And so when it comes to disco connecting from tech, it's about balance, right. It's yea, I know you're you're not big on tech. That's where I once again, I think we have balanced in our relationship here, because you're one extreme in them, the other. Yeah, and I and I do think that. You know because you're always asking me, can you help me with this? Can you help me with that? And and I'm more than willing to, but anything that has to do with technology, I wait till the evening, till lease home to help me out with it. Yes, so I literally go from running, run, run, showed than going playing, playing, textic support when I when I get home and the help her there. But disconnecting to reconnect. What's your recommendation for those that might be struggling in this area, because it is so critically important when it comes to creation, when it comes to innovation, we can't just get stuck in doing. We can't just get stuck in connecting because we have to recharge our phones at night. The same is true for our minds and even, I would say, our souls are spirit, because that then allows us to reconnect into you know what, what some of written as the super conscious, the mind of God, where we do are able to reconnect and get gain new insights, gain new awareness, gain new clarity, gain new ideas. I think just connecting, going back to what I had mentioned before, is so important. We cannot come up with awesome ideas unless we sit and think about them. And if we're catapulting ourselves or trying to do what we've seen online or what other people are doing, that's not an original idea. Our original ideas come through the silence and through the recharging of our bodies and our minds and our spirits and our hearts and everything else. So I think that there's no possible way you will ever come up with some fantastic idea if you are not sitting in silence. And to your point, comparison is a killer, like cold. It is a killer. I see that a lot of times to and financial services. It's the whole R and D and Rd is not research and development. R and D is ripping off and duplicating what someone else is doing. And here's the thing. What might be working for someone else or might not be working for someone else. It might not be the best path forward for your financial brand. Or for your Fintech and so it is important to disconnect from the doing of digital or the disconnect of doing from anything, to create that space and...

...time to review what you've done, reflect on that experience, learn, gain some clarity and then go back sink through it so that you can apply that to the next iteration going forward. Just like I tell our kids, who cares what everyone else thinks? You are different, your situation is different, the food you eat is different, that way you dress is different, the family you come from as different, the household you come from as different. So you cannot try to be someone else or even catapult yourself off someone else, because your situation is completely different than the person next door or the other company or your competitor or who, whatever the case may be. So trying to compare yourself and do what other people are doing, it has no relevance. You have to take your situation separately. Yeah, that's a really great point to Lana, because, as Oscar wild once noted, be yourself because everyone else is already taken. And I have to give credit where credit is due. As we get ready to wrap up here, this has been a this has been fun. Thank you. I'm honored, but for you coming in and doing this because, as you mentioned, this is out of your comfort zone. For sure. Extremely it's been fun. What let me ask you and what has been one thing that you've learned from this experience today, just having this conversation with me in the studio? Well, you didn't let me look at the questions that you're going to ask me. So that was a little nervewracking, but that's okay. We kind of we or a quick start, both of us. So it worked out well. Yes, and that's a that's a funny it's behind the scenes. You know, it's interesting. When it comes to the PODCAST, I do get mini requests. Can I get the questions ahead of time? People want to see the questions and I'm very hesitant to share the questions because I think it gives them the ability to think about what they're going to say when I'm more interested in asking the question and what comes out, because I think what comes out that that is the truth at that moment in time in and it's it makes for a much more interesting dialog and discourse, a discussion. And so, as we'd get ready to sign off, I do have to give you credit on the sign off here, because you know I do sign off be well, do good and make your bed, and there's a backstory to that. What's the back story here of be well and do good? Well, whenever I drop the kids off or to school or had walk them into preschool, whenever they were in preschool, I would always tell them be good, do well, and I think that whenever someone is good at heart, they're going to do everything well. So it was more so I would always tell them be good because I wanted them to be good for their teachers and for the students around them, but I also wanted them to do well in their schooling. So that's how that I'll started. And then the last part of that too, that that idea of be well, do good and make your bed. Why is making your bed, and this is something that I learned from you, why is making your bed so critically important within the first, we'll call it, two to three minutes that you're up in the morning? It's funny because there was that video going around with that navy seal of I think he was. I think he was actually a navy commander. Yeah, and he was talking about making your bed. I'm like, yes, it's totally got it on point and that's my that was my philosophy from the start. I think that you need to give yourself the time and where you sleep is so important. We make our kids make their beds, even though I'm a little OCD, so I go back and remake them, but at least I'm teaching them the right way. But I think that even if your day has gone completely wrong, there's one thing that has come come full circle and been done right, is which is the making of your bed. You need to give yourself the time, attention and importance and if everything in the day has gone wrong,... come back to a nice, beautiful bed and that bed is going to welcome you back. If you have a room and it's the bes not made, it looks the room looks messy, so that one thing that you do is going to kind of make the day come full circle and at least something was done right. I would also add to that it's the little things that add up to make the very big things, because the little things do matter in the overall experience and it's so easy to overlook those little things. We want to do the big things, but we got to do the little things first. Right to make the sure that the big things become reality. Going for d'lina, thank you so much for joining me. This has been a lot of fun. I always like to wrap up with a very, very simple question. What is one thing the dear listener can do, based upon our conversation today, so that they can just continue to move forward on their own journey of growth, personally, in this case, because we got a little personal, or professionally, when it comes to their financial brand or their fintech and marketing, sales or leadership? What's one thing that they can do small to move forward on their own journey of growth with confidence? Be Real, be honest, be true. Be Real, be honest and be true. What a great way to wrap up the conversation today to Lena, because it all comes down to those three things. Be Real and be honest, be true. Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. This has really been a lot of fun and interd it. Thanks as always, and until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Leigh. To get even more practical and proven insights along with coaching and guidance. This it digital growthcom slash insider to join a community of propminded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and FINTEX. Until next time, be well and do good.

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