Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

160) #ExponentialInsights: The Only Future for FIs: Truly Knowing Your Customers


Financial brands need to start taking millennials seriously because, pretty soon, they’ll be your biggest customers.

Those who don’t will be unprepared for the future and, ultimately, left in the past.

But, it’s a generation who has some pretty high expectations — and the research proves it.

Today, I’m discussing that research with the very people who conducted it, Jake Tyler, Niamh Cunningham, Shayli Lones, to learn what it says and, more importantly, how you should respond.

Join us as we discuss:

- Why truly knowing your customer is the key to any financial brand’s longevity

- Why trust is is the most valuable currency for your customers

- Why you should look not to other financial brands, but to the Amazons of the world for delivering remarkable customer experiences

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...the fin techs have to look beyond their own industry and they need to start trying to mirror the experiences of the amazons of this world and the only way to do that is to create truly personalized experiences. Mhm mm hmm. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert ley interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 160th episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm gonna mix things up a bit today where I will facilitate more of what I'll call a fireside chat panel discussion as we're going to focus on some research that was recently conducted through a collaboration of Finn Ai Mx rival and Q two. When it comes to the feelings and emotions that millennials and gen z have around banking and money joining me for today's conversation is Jake Tyler Ceo of Finn Ai naive Cunningham, Founding partner at rival technologies and Shay lee loanees VP of go to market at Mx. It is great to have all of you here to share time, have a conversation, talk around the feelings and emotions that millennials and gen z have around banking they have around money, kick us off jake, what's, what was the purpose of doing this in the first place, Why take the time to look at this stuff. I think there was a couple of big factors. So one, we did it in the summer of this year, so mid pandemic things have changed a lot, We wanted to take a pulse on how much they changed, how people were feeling about it will share a bit more, but you know, one big area we dug into here was how people were going financially, particularly younger consumers. Um we, we will need, can share the more, we got all these videos feedback from people, which was really rich and um and some of them very emotional and you know, talking about their financial health, so that was a big thing we wanted to dig into. Um we focused the research on millennials and gen Z. S and you know, we all talk about millennials and gen z is a lot in the finance world and the reason why is because they're going to inherit a ton of cash This decade, something like $65 trillion dollars of assets in the coming decade. And so that's why we spend a bunch of time on them in the banking space because the way that they bank, the way they interact with banks, the types of institutions that they trust is going to define what banking looks like as they become the most profitable customer segment over this decade. Yes, that is, that is definitely what we've been tracking for probably the past 10 years and now that time I think has come to where we'll start to see this transfer of wealth across generational lines and you're hitting on some really key points. One that I'm personally passionate about is the relationship, the feelings, the emotions that people have with money and I want to come over to you nev what, what did you find? I think, you know, Jacob set you up nicely here. You've got a lot of videos, What were some of the insights gained from from these conversations? Yeah, I mean, we touched on a lot of topics and we're gonna, you know, get into those over the course of the next 30 minutes. But I think in specifically around the video questions...

...that we asked. So we actually spoke to Over 1000 us citizens, 400 jen's ears. So gen Z for us was 15 to 24 400 millennials, which was 25 to 40 and then we spoke to 200 boomers just for kind of comparison purposes. Um and one of the things that we asked them was just, what are your worries for your financial future? So like how are you feeling about what keeps you up at night, we had over 1000 people respond and in fact 100 of them decided to respond to using selfie videos, which was really cool. So you could actually see the emotion and hear the emotion as well. And so I think people were very open because of it. The number one thing that keeps them up at night is saving space. Just people don't feel like they're saving enough they earn and then they spend, they spend more than they earn. It's just this kind of vicious pattern. And so I think the main kind of take away from that is that there's a huge opportunity for financial institutions and providers just generally to help people get a handle on savings. And then I think the second most common theme was around deaths and loans. People are really worried about that. How are they going to pay them off and then retirement featured. But I think another big opportunity that came out of it was just general feeling of not having enough financial education and you know, just not feeling that they have enough financial literacy to make the right decisions for the future. So people feel confused, overwhelmed, they're kind of crying out for help, but they don't really know where to get it. So there's a huge opportunity there, right? I can't recall one of the studies that we had looked at a couple of years ago. It might have been a facebook study where they were looking at financial trends and patterns, but there was an exponential number of millennials at the time Who were feeling the same way and they were looking for someone that they could trust. But I want to recall if my memory serves correct, there's only about 8% felt like they could go and talk to a traditional financial brand and so where they would turn would be to google. But then it's almost like in healthcare, but that's the very first place you go when you're sick, you google your symptoms and then you end up finding more problems when the problems aren't even there. So you end up going to the physician and the physician put your mind at ease. I see there's a lot of common patterns here around financial wellness, like physical health and wellness. Shelley, what's your take on this? Because that's a big thing of what y'all are thinking about over imax is this idea of financial well being. Yeah. And we touched on that too. I think that question that we asked with the video really hit home. So what worries you about your financial future? Some of the comments that came back where I wish I knew how to save. Um, I don't feel like my bank knows me because they don't under they don't understand what my needs are or I don't know what I should be doing with my money. If we look at all of that like they need to save more. That all ties back to financial illness. So we know that the consumers, they need help and they need guidance and they're looking to us to provide that. Another question that we did ask them was um, what are you most interested in from your financial institutions? So across all generations, um data security was the most important. But the second thing they asked for was they wanted more automated financial guidance or virtual assistance. So after their data security, the next thing they wanted from us is to help manage their money. Yes. Yes. And and I found it interesting when I was looking through the research, something that that really stood out to me was and I'm going to quote among the support channels, F Eyes or Fin techs could offer their customers. Live chat is the most likely channel to meet the preferences of the largest number of possible customers across both young and old generations. And that echoes some of the research that we have done as well to where we have found that human interaction, human connection is...

...the most influential source in a consumer's buying journey. In fact, the faster that a financial brand can get a yeah, a consumer in touch with someone internally, the higher propensity that there is for conversion. Um, what's your take on this jake? Why why is this why is live chat or let me rephrase it another way. Why the love for live chat and how does it cut across multiple generations here? Yeah, I think I think we're probably a little surprised that live chat came out as the most preferred support channel across generations instead of phone or branch, which we would have expected to see as the most preferred thing, you know, and I think what it um speaks to is that we're seeing certainly driven by the pandemic. We're seeing a need to bring humans into digital channels, get the best of both worlds. I think another surprising thing that we saw was that automated chat was also um Had a high preference, particularly for younger generations as much as going into a branch for service for example, or going into a store for service. So I think what we're seeing is for some interactions, people want high convenience in digital channels, they want to get things done on their terms 24, you know, the simple routine things, they can do them, you know, self service for those. I think when it comes to human service increasingly we don't necessarily want to go to the branch to talk to somebody and what we learn in the pandemic is operationally as a bank delivering that is a big challenge as well. So I think we're seeing all these other modes emerge where we can bring still get that high touch, that human experience, but put it into digital channels or you know, put it into I Tms, if it's the branch and then we can leverage humans, not just in one location, but in many locations. So I think what we're seeing is, you know, is the confluence of these things coming together. Um and what we found in our research, Yeah, I think, you know that that live messaging is a perfect example of that where you've, you know, it's in a digital channel, but you're still chatting to a human, you can still have a complex conversation. I want to stay with you for just one minute and dive a little bit deeper into this point here because I can think of a couple of organizations that have been in our banking on Digital Growth program one for at least the last three years and every single year I come back with a recommendation. Let's bring live chat in, let's bring live chat and let's bring live chat in and like no, no, no, we're not ready. And it's like, it's just excuse after, excuse after excuse what, what do you feel holds financial brands and fin techs back from making live chat a part of the experience if people are vocalizing this, whether it be live or automated, what's the gap, what's the hold back? Yeah, I mean we see a lot of that in um when we have conversations as well and I think some of it is that if you chat to some folks at credit unions, regional banks, they will say that most of their volumes in phone at the moment. So why do they need, you know live chat. Right. And I think that the and when we looked at this, we actually looked at how people contact customer support for non banks as well as banks and the banks use of branch and phone was a lot higher. And I think what it speaks to is sort of big latent demand on the consumer side to not have to going to the branch or call up over the phone to access customers of all people want to do it in digital channels. They still want the human touch sometimes, but they want to do it in digital channels. And I think, you know, in banking we're just taking a little bit longer to get there. But the other thing that we all, you know, particularly for millennials and gen z is like we all grew up with amazon and you know, our service expectation isn't set by banks and credit unions and if you force me to call call up a bank, um that's a high friction, you know, touch point. I'm...

...annoyed by the time I call in any case. Um and so I want to, you know, I want to get things done in digital channels and so I think we'll continue to see the market is definitely moving this way. I do think we've seen some really interesting developments in the last couple of years around how to bring humans into digital channels like screen sharing video. You know, that that was a boon in the pandemic or over the last couple of years. So that, that will only happen more I think. Yeah, it's a, it's ah is there, you know, change is hard. So you know it is and that was one of the interesting things from the study is it wasn't just a younger millennial gen z this also cut across some of the older generations when it came to these communication preferences. Uh never I want to come to you when it comes to generational differences between millennials, between gen z between boomers and the research you conducted around banking. What were some of the trends and the differences between these generations here? Yeah, I mean interesting we were just talking about this not so long ago. So the number one thing that is super important for all generations is trust like trust in their financial provider in the financial institution. However younger people are less likely to trust their financial providers and the older generations. But then the real kicker for that, which makes it even more interesting is that younger people are still more willing to give up personal information than the older generations. And the reason really comes down to the fact that they they for them convenience is so important that it really kind of overrides everything else. So they're willing to give up more personal information even if they're not feeling the same levels of trust is the older generations because they really crave that convenience. And so again, the big takeaway here is if banks and credit unions are the number one financial providers that all of these generations trust, if they can manage to bring that kind of trust into their products and services along with the convenience, then they're really gonna set up to win in the market compared to fin techs and others who are not considered as trustworthy. It it can take weeks, months years to make enough deposits into a consumer's trust fund that sits between their ears. And sometimes it can take minutes. And it could be just a bad experience to begin to deplete or take withdrawals out of that. Trust fund trust is the currency. And I wrote about this in banking on digital growth. Trust is the currency on which we trade. Uh and almost kind of do commerce in a digital world. And experience does play into that Shelly thinking about the research that you've gained from these studies. Where might there be gaps in expectations? Where might there be gaps in experiences when it comes to banking through these different consumer groups. Yeah, and I think that comes back to, so what we just talked about one of the questions we did ask them is what is the most important factor that you take into consideration when you choose a financial provider? Um um What what do you think they would have chose the most important thing to you as a consumer, the most important thing. Well, like can I get access to my money. So it was around trust. So trust actually ranked higher than having lower rates, um having better products um even ranked higher than a really good digital experience. And so we found that it was really interesting because again, Trust comes first, but then when we asked them, who do you actually trust with your financial data? This one was the interesting one across the board. So the leaders and who they trusted with their data was national banks. Then it was credit union, then... was big tech companies like an apple or google. And then it came in with Fin techs. Really, let's talk about the why, why do you think that is? What was, what's the story behind the story here into this type of thinking? Because you've got like you said the nationals leading the way and then it kind of trickles down after that. Why is this? So this is this is an interesting one. And the other question we asked the help kind of digging a little bit deeper here was um how much do you trust your primary financial institution with your personal financial data. So we asked them that question, most of the respondents indicated that they at least somewhat trusted them, but gen z's and millennials were less likely than baby boomers to completely trust them. So there's a lot of weird trust things going on here of my bank versus a Fintech. But yeah, I'm very willing me as a millennial myself. I enter in my financial credentials to use Paypal to use Venmo. I don't think twice about that right across the board. Yeah, I would, I would concur just now that I'm kind of stepping outside of this, my own little world view here into my everyday consumer mind. I don't even think twice about it. I think of some of even the non traditional financial service providers that I've signed up for and didn't even think twice about what they were going to do with that data. But there was the convenience factor that played highly in into all of this to make my life simple jake. I want to come back to you because we're, we're really kind of seeing a key theme in our conversation around trust bubble up to the top. What's driving buying decisions and maybe it is trust, maybe it's more than trust. What's driving these buying decisions for millennials for gen z when it comes to banking? Is it other elements besides trust getting thrown into the mix here, maybe something's below the surface that we haven't discussed already. Well, I think the question is like you said, so how do you build trust? Um, if that's the most important thing and you know, I think the other um theme was convenience. It's a way to build trust. I mean that's, but it's also people are willing to trade off. Certainly younger generations for convenience pretty quickly and you can see the rise in Fintech adoption and use are like the use of Venmo for example, which is amongst millennial and gen z is almost universal. Um, and so use of fin techs is high because convenience is great, even though they were below national banks and big tech companies and others on the Trust's as they build up their, you know, their brands are, they, I'm sure people will trust them more. I still think for, you know, credit unions and regional banks, they do come into this from a position of strength. They've got, they've got a great trust brand. They really own that space. They have to catch up on the convenience side of things, they have to do a better job of digital in particular and digital for younger generations really means mobile. And I think if they, you know, that was the whole thesis of this piece of research, but they need to start thinking of millennial and gen Z s as their most valuable consumer base and ensuring they do a great job of serving them instead of just looking at their cash cow boomer. That's a great point. It's almost like you have to bring the future into the present moment to begin operating from a, from a future mindset versus that, you know, if you keep operating in the present, the future is going to be here before, you know, it and we're not going to be ready and then I'll be like, well what happened? Well, it's we we've kind of been having these conversations now, at least From my perspective for at least the past 10 years. The future is, is...

...kind of here now um the time is getting shorter to take some actions going forward. I want to get your take from each one of you on this because it's always an interesting exercise since we're talking about trust, we're talking about national brands, we're talking about Fintech credit unions, community banks, etcetera. It's, it's very important to understand and have some awareness of what's going on in the marketplace to begin with, from a positioning standpoint, from an experience standpoint. We spent a lot of time studying Fintech and then trans transferring that knowledge back into credit unions and banks. What Fintech is kind of top of your mind right now that you think the dear listener Could learn from could explore. I can think back to is probably 2012, 13, 14 time period where we did a benchmark of simple uh when simple was first getting started and also with moving and we recorded those experiences of how you could open an account in about two minutes and we timed it and it was, I don't think at the time, leadership really appreciated what was going on in the marketplace. And so who would you recommend the dear listener be aware of, watch, explore open an account apply for a loan there, nev who would that be? Well? You know what's really interesting to me is I don't even think anymore that the standard is being set by other fintech companies. I think the reality is and jake switched on it earlier on is that our bar for user experience has now been set by netflix by Spotify. So honestly the fin techs have to look beyond their own industry and they need to start trying to mirror the experiences of the amazons of this world. And the only way to do that is to create truly personalized experiences. And the only way to create truly personalized experiences is to know who your customer is, not just the operational data that presumably all these F. I. S. Already have on them, but it's also that attitudinal data, so we know you've done X, Y, and zed, but why why do you feel that way? How is that going to influence your future decisions? So I think the bar for me at least anyway, I believe is set by other tech players in the space and that's who the F. I. S. Need to be modeling. Digital growth is a journey from good to great. But sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming the good news is you don't have to take this journey alone because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs who are all learning, collaborating and growing together, visit digital growth dot com slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show, that's a great point. It's not just looking internally, it's also looking externally. And back to your point, there's the big data side of things. It's this is what people are doing at a macro level. But then getting really tight into the thick data. Why why are they doing this? Why are they feeling this way? And I think it all started a really good conversation to continue this going forward into the individual organizations here. Is there anyone specifically Shelli that you would say for the dear listener, hey, we need to get some awareness. Keep some eyes on just from from a learning perspective because I think a lot of times you know, specifically in leadership, we fear the unknown. But it's through training is through education that the unknown becomes a little less scary because it's like we're watching, we're observing, We're learning. Who would you keep eyes on Shelly ones that I... right now. And I know it could be a little bit of a broken record. But is the buy now pay later industry looking at a clarinet and and affirm when you want to use their service, think about how easy that is for the consumer embedded into the website. It's a couple of clicks And I have the money that I need to go make a purchase but yet if I want to go to my financial institution I have to go inside I have to give 80 forms of I. D. And it takes a very long drawn out process. And so I think that what they're doing on the customer experience side and reducing those friction points, it's something we need to watch and see if we can replicate in our own industry. That's a great point buy now pay later. Once again it's not directly you know from the traditional financial services since but it definitely impacts consumer buying behavior here. So naive. We've got from you, looking outside the Netflix of the world, the Spotify, eyes of the world. It really I mean I just you know, as I got my as we wrapped up last year I got my my like top listening trends and all those patterns we have that the access to that same type of data if we put together hey these were your top big, you know where you spend your money. Is that really what you want to do and just maybe ask them like you know probing questions around that Shelley you're you're thinking about the Buy now pay later perspective jake, who who's the great opportunities that we can learn from just you know comparing experiences at a macro level. Yeah I'll well one of them I won't mention any names but because we work with some of them and but we talked about different support channels and messaging and we work with a few different fin techs and at at the fin techs we work with, we see messaging at 80%, of volume. So they do a tiny bit of phone support, it's almost all done. And so I think that speaks to consumer demand and the fact that if a traditional bank or credit union could do the same thing, it would be a bit of a change, but the consumers would actually probably be fine with it. So I think that's one thing I'll say the other one was time. I think just announced a piece with Walgreens to do cash deposits. So I think what you're seeing there is again, this blending of great digital experience with convenience of a footprint and overnight they got access to it was 8500 something locations around America for cash deposits and withdrawals and other things. I mean, um I think those sorts of tie ups make fin techs who you thought of as just digital challenges, get all the benefits are a lot of the benefits of being in a whole bunch of communities in America. I mean that's a great example that I want to have more conversation over the coming year about because for me it's the collaboration, it's the collaboration between organizations, that might not make any sense at surface level, but it makes a ton of sense once you kind of peel back the layers of the onions here because we're getting access to communities, were getting access to audiences that we can create value for. I mean even that idea of financial health With chime and physical health and well being with with Walgreens. I mean I even think at 1 1.1 of their taglines was like be well or you know, is something playing on that? That true. That idea of wellness, this has been a great conversation. I want to keep this idea of trust, convenience experience at the top of mind as we begin to wrap up and go around here. I want to play the game of stop doing to start doing. Um and and what is one thing that you would recommend the dear listener to...

...possibly stop doing to create space and time so that they can start doing to move forward and make progress in these areas that we have talked through today around building trust around optimizing experiences through the lens of convenience. Shay lee, let's start with you. What would you recommend? We stopped doing to create space and time to start doing. Yeah, I think this is an interesting one. Um I said in marketing, I would say stop focusing on the R. O. I. Of providing a solution to your users instead start listening to what your consumers want and how that's going to actually benefit the bottom line. Absolutely. And I've had some conversations recently on this podcast from others. Making similar recommendations. Go on. And I think you've kind of done this here, go on a listening tour, just go out, go all in on an audience, go all in on a community, ask really good questions. Listen and learn through observation, ask listen and learn. That's a great, that's a great point right there nev what would it be for you? What's one thing that we can stop doing so that we can start doing something and making progress here? Yeah, yeah. Mine's a bit similar to Shelly. So my background is product um and so we have a great expression in the product world. It's the acronym is mosquito, which is nothing interesting happens in the office. And similar to Shelly, it's like we have to stop sitting around a boardroom dreaming up of solutions for our customers and we need to be making data driven decisions. And that's a combination of looking at your operational data, asking customers and a Shelley said, getting out into the real world and talking to them and listening to them. You need to pull all of the data point together. No more data silos and use that data to de risk decisions and to build products and services that customers are gonna love. That's a yeah, it's why do we need to guess anymore I can think of of an event that I did last year to end the year in Dubai. And it was a beautiful because I showed up at the office at 12 30 in the morning, we went on for the keynote at one o'clock. I wrapped up at 1 15, 1 20 and then went back home and slept in my bed because it was all remote. But one of the things that a CMO at one of the banks and out of Dubai and the Middle East said like we have an opportunity to stop guessing. Like and, and they were speaking from personal experience, they launched about like 300 products over the years and only a small percentage of them actually really found some traction because it was done in a vacuum. It was done in a style that was done in a boardroom. It's a really great way to build upon Shelley's thoughts here, jake. What would it be for you? One thing that we can stop doing so that we can start doing and creating value to create value for gen z for millennials. Considering the massive opportunity that's right around the corner. Yeah, Well, just, just quickly building on both Shelley and needs by forgiveness. Even rival technologies a plug here. If it's coming to listening to consumers, your members and customers. Um, because I think, uh, they, so they do a lot of this. Um, and it's both a combination of sort of traditional research, which is what we did. But we spoke at the top of this about the video responses and we got 100 video responses out of 1000 survey responses and they were so good. So like selfie videos, but we went through a bunch of them, they were great, they really brought it to life somewhere super emotional. So anyway, I just, you know, there's lots of different ways and flavors for listening, but uh, you know, doing this research was a great project for us and...

...a great way for us to get out and listen to what consumers want to do. So I'll give a big plug too naive and her team for for their platform, if you want to have a chat with them for me, I mean I'll just come back to the whole point of us doing this research to start with, which is hey, you need to stop just focusing on your bouma cash cow demographic and the way that they want to bank. I know that's the profit center today, but that profit center is going to change in the next decade, it's going to happen and when, and, and you know, it's not like millennials and gen Zs are totally different, but they are importantly different in material ways and if you missed the boat now and they build a deep relationship with a Fintech or a tech company or whoever it is and it's not you, well then when they inherit all that money, you know, and that Fintech ads in investment services, they're going to keep their cash with them instead of rolling over to you. So um you know I do think we need to stop, you just need to look out, realize that this change is happening and start to adapt our products to meet the needs of these younger consumers. One of the conversations that I recently had was around constraint driven growth and I think the pandemic has provided a very unique opportunity for innovation for ideation because it forced us to stop doing a lot of things that we kind of fell into the cave of complacency around and it was that forcing function that allowed us to see things in a completely new way of completely new perspective. It would be my hope that once a year, twice a year, once a quarter, I don't know what the cadence is right now, but maybe we do a constraint driven growth, like what happens if we could no longer tap into that boomer market, what would that force us to do today and we do some quote unquote contingency planning around that? What do you think would come out of an exercise like that? What would what would, what might be some of the ideas that you would have if we stopped doing boomer marketing, focusing on the boomer to really focus in on that next wave, which is like you said it's going to happen, what would be the result in your mind, would that be jake? Well, I think, I think, you know, for the younger generations they care about mobile, so you have to, everything has to be mobile first that it's not that other things aren't vaguely, you're interesting in some way, but you need to orient your whole business around the mobile experience and everything else is treated as a secondary channel and um yeah, I mean I like the thought exercise, I think we all learned that work from home. It actually works at least for a while. Yeah, so um you know, that was upended. We can do remote service, we can shut down branches and still get things done. We did P. P. P. I mean in the middle of a pandemic, so we can cut, you know, when when you have the constraints, you're right, you can really get a lot of stuff done. So my thing would be, I think, you know, when we when the younger generations talk about digital, they really mean mobile and so think about great point can be mobile first. That's a fantastic point because once again, I think there's a generational perspective, when you say digital to one generation, it's different to another generation, which is why I always when, when working and coaching a financial brand, their leadership team. I asked them what does digital, what does digital growth mean to you? And we start there with just a you know, common ground, common perspective, there's no right, there's no wrong answers. I want to I want to come over to you Shelly if we...

...were to forced if we were forced to take and I'm gonna I love I love this idea jake that you've presented to us. We have to stop doing if we were forced to stop doing this over here on the boomers side, what what would the opportunities be as a forcing function? What do you think we would come out? What would we gain from those constraints? I think building up on top of what jake said with mobile, it's not just mobile, it's intelligent and customized experiences within a mobile experience. It has art. Yes, when I log in, I don't want to have to enter in all my information again. You have my information. Why am I telling you my birthdate? Why am I telling you my address? You have that information? How do I get smarter insights from my bank? I want again we heard them say they want automated intelligent insights, telling me what to do with my money. So it's not just launch that up and get it out there. It's how do you build something that's smarter engaging interactive, that's actually going to help me improve my life. So I'm gonna tell you as a business owner right now and I can see this on the business side. But I also see it on the personal side and I know there are platforms out there that I could go and integrate into, but I want to know where all of like my subscriptions are right now, why is my f I not making it easy for me to basically say who is getting a reoccurring transaction? Let's say a dollar amount of $20 or less, because I know that I'm spending money out there, that's probably you know, a couple 1000 a year on like these like subscriptions that I've signed up for, I've forgotten about and I don't sit there and go through every single month, but it's like at the end of the year I kind of always want to do an interview summary so that I can, you know, exercise that and be even better next year. But there's not an easy way for me to do that right now, unless I had to go and integrate with bring that in and make my life easy. So that's a great point right there neve let's let's let's come to you, let's wrap up with with with your thought on this constraint driven exercise, we only get to focus on uh gen z we only get to focus on millennials, we can't think about boomers, what would that be? I love this question because I'm reading a book right now called a beautiful constraint. Have you read it? I have not but I'm a big reader so that you've just given me another read a great book, a beautiful constraint, it talks about a whole load of digital technology, like technological disruption that's happened in the space because people were constrained by resources, money, whatever the case may be. So I love this question. I think, I mean to Shelley's point earlier on, I think one of the things for me, just speaking as a one man poll is that there's a heavily regulated industry, admittedly there's a lot of red tape, there's a lot of hoops that people have to jump through, but I think boomers are more comfortable with that, they're more forgiving and open to it. Millennials gen z not so much. Just like the pay now, Buy now, pay later apps, they can sign up straight away, they can get going, they don't have to facts in, you know what they had for breakfast. And so I think that a lot of more traditional F. I. S. They need to try and figure out how they kind of tear down those red tape walls and make it more convenient and if they're just going to focus on gen Zs in particular, that's what they need to do. That time to value has to be much quicker or else the adoption is just not going to be there. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. Well listen, this has been a fantastic conversation, I appreciate the thinking that you have shared. I appreciate the research, the insights that you have done. I hope that others find it just as viable as I have if someone wants to continue the dialogue in the conversation, maybe even grab the research. What's the best way for them to find that research and then how can they connect with each of you jake? Let's let's come over to you. What's...

...the best way for them to find the research? How can they connect with you? Yeah, the I think the research is probably on any of our web pages under the research tab, you can find me at jake at finn dot ai. If you want to reach out, connect with jake, grab the research, you will not be sorry. I think it will help you with some of your thinking as you're continuing to plan for future growth jake. Thank you need what about you? Best place to find you? Best place to find me. I would give my own personal email address but my name is too confusing and no one will spell it right. So if you do want to reach out to me, you want to talk more about the research or about our capabilities that rival? It would be partners at rival tech dot com. Partners at rival tech dot com. Thank you. Thank you nev Shelly, what about you? Let's let's wrap up what's the best way for someone to connect? Say hello, yep. So if you want to chat about how you can build in those contextual insights into your digital experience. Um you can hit me at my email, it's Shelly dot loneliness at mX dot com. Alright, well listen, Shelley never jake. Thank you all so much for the knowledge that you have shared that you have imparted on all of us today. I know we're all better for because of it. Um I wish you all well and thank you for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. This has been a lot of fun, thank you as always. And until next time be well. Do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley to get even more practical and proven insights along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growth dot com slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs. Until next time be well and do good. Mhm, mm hmm.

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