Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 months ago

137) #ExponentialInsights: Financial Literacy: All It Takes Are the Right Stories

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Biology explains why kids trust their parents, but why their teachers?

Education — that’s the key to building trust.

Financial brands who get that will thrive and may just fix our culture’s financial literacy problems in the process.

That’s what Arindam Nag, Chief Executive Officer at CentSai, is banking on. At CentSai, he’s telling the right stories to help build financial literacy — and he was gracious enough to share them in today’s episode.

We discuss:

- The issues with financial literacy

- Why smart money management doesn’t take a career in Wall Street to learn

- Why education (and the trust it builds) will shape the future of finance

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...if the bank plays the role of aneducator and money and finance, it will be able to build trust. If you buildtrust among your members and customers you can retain them, they will be withyou, they will refer you, they will encourage other people to join yourbank. Mhm mm. You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello I am James robertley and welcome to episode 1 37 of the banking on digital growth podcast.Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'mexcited to welcome our and damn nag to the show are and um is helpingfinancial services industry embraced financial literacy as part of theoverall customer engagement because he's the chief executive and co founderof Sense eight dot com. Now I'm a big believer in empowering and elevatingothers through education. In fact, education is a core part of ourbusiness model here at the digital Growth Institute and there's really nobigger, no more important topic when it comes to education than to provideeducation for consumers around money. That's because money, it impacts allparts of our life, it impacts our health, it impacts our wealth, itimpacts our happiness, our relationships and I believe that whenyou can transform someone's wallet, you really can truly begin to transformtheir entire life in all of these different areas And more often than not,that transformation must begin with training. It must begin with educationto help the unaware become aware of what the possibilities of an evenbigger, better, brighter future look like. So with that welcome to the showare and I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Thank you very much.It's a real pleasure to be on your podcast before we get into talkingfinancial literacy, financial education, financial wellness, financialempowerment. I always like to start off on a positive note what has been goodfor you personally, professionally? It's always your pick. Oh my goodness.Well, I think number one I personally survived Covid. Uh I probably had oneof the worst experiences and when my family members, my whole family wasdone with Covid but I was in bed literally, I was literally running thecompany horizontally for almost six weeks, March in april, I was in thehospital twice, so I'm glad, I'm...

...grateful that I'm sitting here talkingto you upright. I can do all the normal things right now. But again, if I maytake the opportunity, Covid Israel, those, a few are still not vaccinated,please get vaccinated. Covid. Israel is painful. On the professional front. Iwould say that we launched two products, one for the school kids and one forfinancial services sector Exactly 11 months ago and we didn't realizedespite the Covid that we will actually come through and be where we are today,that we have paid clients, people are using us. People like Pat is getting agood response to the marketplace. So overall, I would say while in many Wedid have challenges, but I'm grateful for the last 11, 12 months. Yes. And Ithink it's always looking for the positive and you know, it's so funny.You mentioned your, your Covid experience, my family. We came downwith Covid and and I will tell you, I was sitting there And probably had like102° fever and just feeling really, really horrible. But I kept thinkingthis is just a moment in time. I've got so many more things that I want toaccomplish, so many more people that I want to help. So I didn't get trappedin that present moment. I was really living in my mind in the future of allthe other things. Even this conversation, right? It's just I enjoydoing this podcast and learning from from, from people like, like yourselfand, and I want to talk about like getting up to this point in just yourown personal journey, what's what's the inspiration? What's the purpose behindlaunching this because it's important work. It's meaningful work, can youprovide some perspective of of just the whole purpose that you're workingtowards here. Sure. I think I would say It goes back to two seminal events inmy life. One was as a 17 year old when I was growing up in Calcutta, I had theprivilege and the honor for spending some time at mother Teresa'smissionaries of charity and it was voluntary work just like you know, mostmany of my classmates did it. I did it too. I just spent a little bit moretime there and I saw many people fall off the wagon. They were I saw poverty.I saw people who had a lot in their lives earlier, but for whatever reasoncould be famine could be bad decisions, addiction. They were homeless and theywere dying almost dying of hunger. So I instantly knew the value of respectingmoney, respecting wealth. But fast forward as I grew in my financialjournalism Korea, writing about people, talking about people understandingeconomics and how countries and nations and how the policies interacted witheach other along with the corporate world, I realized that a lot offinancial decisions were taken by companies and policymakers thatimpacted data their lives of normal people. But when it came to financialliteracy, the normal people were waved...

...behind and I saw that firsthand when asa writer for Dow jones and Wall Street Journal in 2000 and 7 2000 and eight, Iwas covering the credit crisis and I realized that while it was veryfashionable to blame Wall Street, but the real problem was lack of financialliteracy and it was a systemic problem and that's what triggered the thoughtthat I would I do want to do something. Yeah. And it's it's easy, it's easy toblame others. I think that once again we're going to talk abouttransformation once we take responsibility for ourselves, our andand and money money runs deep right? Like it comes back to family of origin,it comes back to environment. It comes back to the beliefs and therelationships that we have. You talked about the the challenges, the systemicchallenges and they do run deep where in your mind are those challengesrooted first and foremost. So I think number one is h word hyperbole. So, andI see it repeating time and again. I mean it was today we're talking aboutcrypto. People are saying, oh Kryptos hot, A lot of people are making moneyin crypto. I should also jump into the fray a year ago. I remember around thistime we had this very unfortunate incident where a young 19 or 20 yearold took his own life because he was trading on Robin Hood, public peerswere doing, but he did not know anything about how the options marketworked. So then if I go backwards, I remember having this conversation withmy landlady, she said, oh I have a second home in Miami and I don't knowwhat to do because the value of it has fallen a lot. So I asked her how muchmore do you have on it and she said well I actually got 100% mortgage. Buton the day of signing my mortgage papers I was I was even offered anotherextra $10,000 for renovation. Why did you do that? And she said well I waspromised that property prices in my block has is always going to increaseby 7% every year. So then I asked her that look If the GDP of America isgrowing by only by 2.5, 3% every year And your property is growing by 7%every year. Then in theory 50 years later or 100 years later the value ofyour home will be more than value of the United States. Right? And then sheheard me and said oh yeah when you put it like that you make a lot of sense.So the simple thing that asset prices don't go up forever inflation rate, youcannot borrow and spend all the time. Those are some of the basics that Ithink are key challenges that an average american has to face day in andday out. It's funny you talk about the...

...home, I can't remember if it was rich,dad, poor dad or if it was the millionaire next door. But one of thebig lessons was you never look at your home as an asset. That's one of themost dangerous things that, that I think people do and you're you'retouching on to that point right now, uh when we look at just the relationshipthat people have with money and some of the challenges, is it educational? Isit relational? Is it a mix of both? What what's your take? Because you'vebeen writing and thinking of doing this for a long time? No, you're right. AndI think, I think it's a combination of both. But let's talk about educationfirst. So because that's where it all starts, right? I mean if you don't havethe right education, you're not properly trained if you're not properlytrained, that you're not able to come to terms with the challenges that lifethrows at you. So, and this is the came out from the research that that me andmy co founder, Doria, when we came together and we started looking aroundWhy are people financially illiterate for lack of a better word? And werealized that it was not taught the right way. So it's like a lot of peoplesay I'm bad at maths. No, you're not bad in math, we just had a bad mathsteacher in Grade five. So you're not bad in the finance, just that you'renot being taught finance the right way. So that's the first challenge. Thesecond challenge is certain things you society and our policy makers have tomake it compulsory, like just like you have to study stem classes in yourmiddle school high school, you cannot pass high school without some knowledgein reading arithmetic and basic languages, you have to, you know, youhave to be able to craft a sentence similarly, you have to be able to knowhow to balance a checkbook, where the money comes from. Now, question is why?Well from the 87 or eight, you're pretty much asking your parents foryour pocket money cannot buy candy, can I buy a toy? That's when this, that isthe starting bell for training your kid. That money does not grow on trees andthat's the basis and that's what we need to work on. So that's why there'sa lot of importance. We had sensor and other people who think like us, they'repaying attention to personal finance for kids, Children, teenagers and when you, when you talk about kidsand Children and that's the best place to start and I know you're doing that,you're going into schools, you're working with financial brands to bringthis into a community because the curriculum is lackluster at best andhere's a question for you, is it ever too late for someone to start learningabout financial well being? Is it, is it, is it ever too too late to helpsomeone say maybe even transform their relationship with money by the timethey reach their twenties or thirties or are those habits, those beliefsalready ingrained, what's your take on that. So uh, I would say it is nevertoo late. You can always learn how to...

...do it. But right now, we are alsoliving in a time when you're like, if you are, if you had bad financialhabits all your life and if you are one year away from the time and and youhave no savings whatsoever, Then we have a problem, then maybe it is toolate. But then we may have to think about alternatives about. Can you delayyour retirement? Can you sell any of your family assets? Can you sell any ofyour assets? Can you downsize your home? Can you, can we plan out the drawdownof its social security, but broadly speaking, even if you're 45 50 and alot of people are in those situations today because they have either gottendivorced or the pandemic, they've lost their businesses. So it is never toolate to have to embrace strong financial habits. But you have tounderstand what are the pain points you are trying to tackle? Yes. And once youidentify the financial pain points, it is much easier to find answers and thenyou can go with the flow, but it will be much more structured flow. This iswhy I see there's such a strong correlation between financial financialwell being and physical well being, Financial well being and, and mentalwell being because it's, it's all interconnected here. I'm evenhypothesizing that the, the we've we've had the covid crisis. And but butreally, I think there's a much deeper crisis that's going to be at play overthe next 5, 10, 15, 20 years, which is the, The financial crisis, but not likethe 2008, like the the epidemic toll that financial stress is has and willcontinue to take on people on their health. I mean, stress is the numberone reason people go to the emergency room. Um you know, and and and thatstress it just, it just really will destroy the body. Were not designed tobe in a constant state of, you know, stress and tension. One of the thingsthat, that you note, it's on your website, it's only about page takingthe fear out of finance. I really connected with that because of a lot ofthe just the research that we've done around this subject. And I'm curious toget your take what are the biggest fears that hold people back fromlearning about money? Yeah. And I think that's a very good question because Iremember, So let me answer this question with the anecdotal story a fewyears ago, this young friend of mine, she was an editor at the Dow Jones WallStreet Journal Group and we were talking about money finances and Ithink she was really married maybe like 18 months, two years and there was thismassive crash in the stock market and she just blurted out saying, oh, I hope,I think her husband's name was rick. So...

I hope rick has, you know, knows whathe's doing because you know, he takes for the follow on finances. And I askedher, Do you know where your 401K. Is? And he said, Oh no, I don't know it, Idon't understand it. So Rick takes care of it. I was scratching my head andthis is a smart woman. She went to Stanford University and she understandsshe started history. But her education, which was liberal arts, almost put anautomatic barrier in her mind that numbers are hard, finances hard and inthe reality, if you have the right educational content engagement and ifshe was exposed to that. And this is the problem, that sense is trying tosolve, then probably she would have been able to be in a much more firmerground. And that is a problem with a lot of people say it's numbers, moneyis managed by smart people on Wall Street. Hence I'm not I'm not smartenough. So hence I should not be understanding. And it's theconversation around money that they refused to have because they believethe origin disadvantage. It's almost like trying to get a kid to get intothe first swimming class, just just dive in and you will be able to figureit out, Yes, you may need some hand holding by the coach or a lifeguard.But after that it is not difficult. So a lack of clarity leads to a lack ofconfidence. The lack of confidence leads to a lack of conversation. Ithink a lot of times the conversations that we need to have begin with ourself.Gotcha, gotcha. That makes that makes a lot of sense right there. And from whenyou think about financial education, particularly from the lens of banking,I know banks, credit unions, they've dabbled in this probably for the past10 years. It's been a part of the macro level conversations, but I want to getyour take on this. What what is one of the common beliefs when it comes tofinancial education from the lens of banking, from the lines of creditunions? What is a common belief that others might have that you justdisagree with? Where might they be falling short right now. So I think ata very strategic level. I don't think it offers too many banks and I'll giveyou an example. I was having a conversation with the ceo of a creditunion. Somewhere that, and I would say not in the west coast, but somewhere inthe middle. And I asked him directly how relevant is important financialeducation for your members. And his answer was not very relevant. I don'tbelieve in it. And I think I still have those messages in my email interactionwith him and but that's the microcosm of how many credit union ceos orbanking ceos They still have those...

...ideas that I'm the banker. I know best.I will teach my customers what they need to know. That tone at the top hasto change that tone at the top. Has to change. I mean what people need toembrace us. If you do not play an active role in financial literacy amongyour credit union members, you are not managing risk properly. It has to bepart of your risk management solution because and why? Because it does nottake too long for all of a sudden for a prime customer to become subprimecustomer, all that you need to do is put in a in a financial situation whereyou're skipping three loans or three payments right? So that needs to beacknowledged. Technology has transformed our world and digital haschanged the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Nowconsumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if theywalk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to growloans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustratingand overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, butit doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you everystep of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digitalgrowth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon insideyou'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transformfinancial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights youcan start using today To confidently generate 10 times more loans anddeposits. Now. Back to the show. You share that story. I've I've I've heardthe same thing and I think story, I think story is an important part ofthis and I know story is even big with what you're bringing to bear in themarketplace because story is what connects people together stories, whatit binds us, it bonds us. And I literally literally just had aconversation uh Ceo and the banking on digital Growth program, their entireleadership team is going through learning together and they just wentthrough a module around story selling and understanding story arc type andnarrative. And he, his comment was this, he goes, I've never really thought ofus as being a helpful guide, an Obi wan Kenobi a mr Miyagi, but it was likethis light bulb moment. It went off and I think it's that mindsettransformation when you think about story and narrative, How are youutilizing this as you're part of just go to market because it's not just thenumbers and cents. It's the stories behind the stories. What's your take onnarrative here.

So well, one thing that we do believein is that uh Economics, Economics is a dangerous flood because, economics cankind of triggers you're scaring me with Economics because Economics in collegeone and two, I hated those classes, barely scraped by with the D and it wasjust happy to get out and get to the other side. Yeah, you're absolutelyright. I mean like, I mean I give this example to people is that, look, I cantalk to you about rate of inflation and why inflation happens etcetera. Or Ican say, hey, why do you why do you think you ended up spending more moneythis summer on your gas and food bill? The second question you're actuallyengaging more because you actually have an answer, you actually will probably,someone will actually say, well I pay more on gas because it just went up,there were more cars that people are traveling more and I've paid more onfood now. You know this as probably better than I do that. We're going tosupply chain crisis. Look at labor. Yeah, absolutely. And in the UK forinstance, which is almost my second home. I grew up there and in the U. K.People are running out of oil at the petrol stations because not enoughdrivers. Two black truck, my wife is Lebanese and his family in Lebanon. Andthe same thing looking out of power. Yeah. Food power, oil. I mean it's it'syeah, it's definitely supply chain disruption and I think again it's alsohappening because of free because of the lack of free flow of labor becausepandemic and the restrictions and at some point people will have to askthemselves. And again this is part of economics but if you're restricting movement of laborand kept and other services then the impact that it has on day to day lifeand that's part of financial wellness as well. Yes. Yes. When you think aboutfinancial wellness through the lens of a community institution, a bank orcredit union, what are the biggest opportunities that you see availablefor them to in fact make this a key part of their future growth strategy.You mentioned risk profile. But let's go deeper there. What are the bigopportunities to go beyond of at that That important to this is core to ourpurpose. Yes. So I think the high level first of all trust and this is again ingrading the tenets of biology. Kids trust their teacher, kids trust theirparents. Now trusting parents we can easily establish because they'relooking after you. Well why does a child trust his or her teacher with noblood relation or my teacher said so why? Because they are learning from theteacher, if the if the bank plays the...

...role of an educator and money andfinance, it will be able to build trust. If you build trust among your membersand customers, you can retain them, they will be with you. They will referyou they will encourage other people to join your bank. So from a high level itis almost a strategic it should be a strategic mission to provide education.But beyond that when you dig deeper, you want to better understand yourcustomer. And the only way you do that is better communication, you fosterdeeper communication and communication can be broken down with acouple of things. One is you're educating, having and then you'rehaving a back and forth exchange as well. But overall the endgame is thatevery time you're having a meeting in an interaction with your customer, thecustomer is enlightened and letting the customer is always good for business.They're they're going away smarter. We're leaving. Almost like we'releaving the world. We're leaving a person better off than what we foundthem. And it's it's it's good to hear you talk about trust because in arecent keynote that I gave over in the Middle East, one of the things that Italked about was this idea of trust in my opening statements and I posted thison linkedin. So I'm going to read this verbatim because it was a conversationthat followed that that key note I said, I touched on truth in a bit of myopening remarks as trust is the currency in which we will trade and dobusiness in a digital world. And this truth of trust transcends all borders.It transcends all cultures. It's just how we first number one established andthe number to maintain trust, which which really must happen long beforesomeone walks into a branch? If they walk into a branch at all, it's thatthat right there, I think it's going to be the biggest transformation that weneed to have conversations around because trust must be established waybefore even a human relationship is established. And you think about like,like you use your teacher example, I'm gonna use healthcare too, right? Um, Ithink once again, health care and money, a lot of similarities when I get sick,where's the first place that I go? Where's the first place that you gowhen we gotta we gotta dr google the worst place that any of us can probablygo because yes, we have all the knowledge available at our fingertips.But it's like, oh my gosh, I typed in my symptoms, I'm going to die tomorrowand then we come to our senses and like, no, I need to call the doctor and it'sbecause they have that context that provides additional level of claritythrough the conversation. I want to touch on that, that conversationbecause you've, you've got financial literacy, financial education,financial well being. I think really to tie all of this together is a coachingaspect too, to because that's it's...

...through the coaching. That's where thebig behavioral transformations can take place because I can get all theknowledge in the world. But unless I change my behaviors, my actions, myhabits, I'll probably be in the same place. What's your thought on coaching?Playing into this whole dichotomy of financial education, financial, I thinkcoaching in general see people, I think we've already accepted the fact thatadults don't like going back to the school. So if you say okay, you know,let's set up some set aside some time. Let me coach you very few people willshow up unless they're going through a pain point. I think the first step thatwe need to establish is can there be a few, you know, players or a few peoplewho make it their business that they will be available Whenever there's apain point that comes up. So at our company has sent some of our content iscrafted in a way, it is not just a story, it actually zero ends on afinancial pain point. So an example, it could be that you are 45 years old, youhave two Children, you are getting a divorce now at that state of mind, you want to be coached, but you want tobe ready for the coaching. How do we ensure that you are ready for coaching?So the relationship and the trust between the person who's going throughthat pain point and the education provider, it could be your yourorganization, organization or a partnership manifested through a bank.So you're talking about your financial advisor or your banker or yourfinancial planner. Getting close to you feeling the pain and the sentimenthaving either from experience with dealing with other clients, making itmore real. And I think what needs to happen and we're seeing this changeamong some people. There are actually a group of uh financial advisors there inthe late thirties that broke, broken away from the Wells Fargo's of theworld, another big institution, because they realized that there Framework theywere working is not really flexible enough. So when I have a conversationwith a couple of people, one of them is our client, she actually focuses on uhwoman who are in the late 30s have gotten a divorce and they don't knowwhat to do. So it was more pain point driven. What, that's a great point because thedesire to transform must be greater than the desire to remain the same anda lot of time it's it's the pain and I think, I think I, once again, I'm gonnacome back to the health example, it's, it's like I go to the doctor, doctorsays, you need to make these changes or you're going to die or you're going tohave these, these, this, this pain. So...

...then what happens then I go to the gymand then I get a gym membership, but my behaviors don't change. So what I do,then I get a trainer who is that experts whose then showing me what todo, helping me establish and build new habits. So I it's it's a great pointabout identifying and maybe even somewhat to a degree, and you got to dothis very sensitively and with a good heart, but maybe press on some of thosepain points too, because I think sometimes people don't know what'shurting them. Um it's about helping the unaware become aware of, of where thatpain could be, because they could be have been living in a situation or astate of mind for so long. They just lack that clarity and it's through theeducation now that we can bring that that clarity to bear in the marketplaceif I'm a bank, if I'm a credit union and I'm listening to this and I'm like,yes, Aaron dumb. I I get it, I want to do this, I believe in this, but I don'thave the buying yet from my organization, from the top down to thebottom up. What are the roadblocks that you have seen that the dear listenerneeds to be aware of, to first and foremost address and the number toovercome and how could they do that, I would say. So people, people talk aboutmarketing, right? And I think uh what we haven't seen happening over the lastfew years despite a lot of reasons to do this is making education as part ofyour marketing strategy and some of the people, so I give an example to peopleof some of the financial institutions in the Fintech community who have done,have been able to connect better with the consumer than the traditionalfinancial institutions. So, a good example would be people likeWealthfront or stash a couple of other platforms. Why is that because we'reseeing the same thing as the Fin tech, who's really, I would say closer to theconsumer more intimate, why is the Fintech there, but not the financialbrand has been around for 50 100 150 years? I think it's also becauseFintech in general are focused on the pain points more than the financialinstitutions and a lot of people, they are some of the people, mind you, theyhave come out from the banking institutions, have come out from uh youknow, engineering or software companies and they have seen the pain pointsthemselves. Many of the Fin techs, mind you are built upon a problem or I sawthis problem when I was a banker, I saw this problem when I was a broker dealer,so I have this problem myself and I'm going to do something about it becauseI know there's hundreds of thousands or millions of other people who have thatsame problem and I would say it's an entrepreneurial mindset at that point.Yes, and I think some of these companies, the Fintech companies inparticular, they have done a better job and I think what has to happen even inthe traditional financial institutions...

...is that they will have two find ways toget closer to the customers. But understand the pain points. I mean, Imean, I'm a account holder in a big bank. This bank is notorious. We have abusiness account there and we must shift actually at some point. But thisbusiness account business bank, Even during the pandemic, they were charging$34 overdraft. I'm like, you know, your ceo goes on television and talks abouthow he cares about people. But I mean, who are you hurting? I mean, exactly.So these are some of the things that we will have to address at a ground levelAaron. Um this has been such a fantastic conversation as we wrap uphere. I want to get really, really practical for the dear listener. Ialways like to send them off with something actionable that they canapply to move forward to make progress. And a lot of times it's a very smallrecommendation because all progress begins with a very small, simple firststep when it comes to deploying financial education, financial literacyas part of the overall, we'll call it just experience what's the very firststep that you would recommend. The dear listener take on their journey here. Start with a simple ask yourselfwhether you need something or you want something need versus once and that'sthe very primal, I want this. But do you really need this the other day, Mydaughter who's in college brings me up because she was in the best buy. Andshe saw this great vacuum cleaner by, you know, by Dyson, I said, okay, buthow much is the cost? $400? I said, listen, you do not need a vacuumcleaner that cost $400. You live in a dorm room, you don't need it. And youknow, she really, she said, well dad, I was just trying to see if you would sayyes, but I know you love me and then she's laughed. So it's this very basicthing need versus want a lot of people don't need a lot of things and that'san opportunity to a to save, that's an opportunity to save for a rainy day foryour retirement kids. And even from the internal perspective of a financialbrand. Um do we need a financial literacy, financial education programor do we want, I would say we need something like this because it iscritical for our future growth. It is critical for the growth of people inthe communities that we're serving. And if someone wants to continue theconversation, the dialogue discussion that we've started here today, what isthe best way for them to reach out and say hello to connect with you? They cansend an email or in them at center dot com they can write on our website. Theycan connect with me on any social media platforms. Uh and it will be very happyto help anyone who needs help. Fantastic. well are and um thank you somuch. Great conversation, a lot of good...

...perspective, a lot of good insights,things that the dear listener can take away, think about even further becausethat's the goal of these conversations. It's to transform the thinking becausewhen you can transform the thinking, that's where you can transform thedoing on the other side of the equation, thank you so much. James has been apleasure, thank you so much as always. Then until next time be well, do goodand make your bed. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley like what youhear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast,google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to geteven more practical improvement insights visit www dot digital growthdot com to grab a preview of James roberts, bestselling book banking ondigital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazoninside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus That empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time be well and do good.

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