Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 4 months ago

159) #NewStartsNow: What Financial Brands Still Get Wrong About Digital

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If COVID was your wake-up call to the need for digital growth…Well, better late than never.

It was never a secret before the pandemic that the future is digital — so why are so many financial brands still so unprepared?

Today, I’m joined by Jeffery Kendall, Chairman & CEO at Nymbus, to discuss the various missteps financial brands make when it comes to digital growth — and how to avoid them.

I’m this episode, we discuss:

 - COVID’s real impact on digital finance

 - The great resignation and why we shouldn’t be so quick to return to “the way things were”

  - Moving past the false Fintech vs. financial institutions debate

To hear this episode, and many more like it, you can subscribe to The Virtual CISO Podcast here.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, you can find all our episodes here.

...it's funny because I hear people talking about like, oh Covid really highlighted the need for digital and I'm like, well everybody kind of knew that was where it was, there was no secret that everything was going digital before that you're listening to banking on digital growth with James robert Ley who believes there is no better time than now to educate and empower financial brands to gain a fresh perspective around future growth opportunities. That's why today's episode is part of the new starts now series brought to you by Nimbus who offers a complete set of tech tools and services, all designed and engineered to empower you and your financial brand to maximize your future growth potential, greetings and hello, I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 159th episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the news starts now series and I'm excited to welcome back my friend Geoffrey Kendall to the show. Jeffrey is the chairman and Ceo at Nimbus helping financial brands the light their members and customers with best in class digital banking solutions. Jeffrey, welcome to the show. It is so good to have you back on today. It is always great to talk to you always such a fun time for me and really, really looking forward to. We've already been having fun before we hit record. We should probably just should have just hit record and just started talking because it is a conversation today. Before we get into looking at, you know, where we've been as an industry over the, we'll call it the last couple of years to start the decade to where we can go maybe over the next three to get us started like the halfway point. Um I always want to start off on a positive note. What's good for you personally professionally to to start the year here? Yeah, well we're getting ready as a company to close out the fiscal year and it's been a fantastic year for growth for us. So we're hugely appreciative to the financial services industry, our partners, our friends, our supporters in the industry, most importantly our customers. Um and and then also our team, but we've had tremendous growth and and that translates into, you know, when we grow, it's because our customers are growing and that's the most important thing and well I'm excited. I'm excited for the growth. I'm excited for all the progress that you've made together as a team as an organization, you know, collaborating with so many um in helping and and really leveraging the human side of this because at the end of the day, it's all about people. This is the technology is facilitating new opportunities and speaking about technology. I want to hop into the DeLorean's of our minds. I want to go back in time for a bit uh two years uh kind of the start of this this decade.

And I don't honestly I feel like the production team should probably play some like back to the future theme music as a transition. Um Speaking of, you know when do you know when back to the future? Do you know when it came out some quick quick trivia On Wednesday 1985 man being 80 five. So this is 85. So it's it's coming up because that will be our horizon line for the conversation. 2025, back to the Future is approaching 40 years and it's hard to believe. I mean 1985 was a great year for eighties movies. The Goonies came out that year. Breakfast Club Teen Wolf. I mean seriously, it was a it was a big year for like the eighties eighties movies for sure. I remember being a kid in the theater, going to see back to the future for the very first time. I remember Back to the Future came out and it was also if I recall correctly when the u to rattle and hum promo came out for that movie was the pre that that was the preview playing in the back to the future movie, which is wild. But what's Wild is my kids, you know, we just turned them on to back to the future and they're loving it this past Halloween. My oldest Ludwick, he was marty McFly. Um I mean he had the red vest and everything going on. He bought like a lego uh DeLorean that he wanted to build. So I mean he's all into this whole back to the future theme with that context in mind going back back in time to 2020 and looking back to this point today, what do you feel have been the biggest wins for financial brands to start this new decade when it comes to maximizing their digital growth? What success stories have you heard here? I think the biggest thing is probably just the willingness of leadership teams at financial institutions to sort of increase the bets that they're putting on digital, you know, it's funny because I hear people talking about like, oh, Covid really highlighted the need for digital and I'm like, well everybody kind of knew that was where it was, there was no secret that everything was going digital before, that it's not like everybody just woke up in an aha moment. But what it did do is that it freed up a lot of investment and it freed up the ability to get resources and the ability to go um to to really make this sort of financial commitments that banks need to advance here. And I think you're seeing the benefits of that now um that people are starting to roll out some of those things that they invested in are now coming into production. And um it's it's pretty interesting to see, it's, it's, it's was having the courage to maybe plant some seeds early on, take care of those seeds, water them nurture, and now they're starting to produce some fruit, if you can think back maybe just for yourself and maybe what you've heard from others to what have been some of the greatest lessons that have been learned along the way. What what can we take from the...

...experience because I think experience can often be one of the greatest teachers of us all. Yeah, I think for me it's, it comes down to people really understanding what the customer journey is in digital and understanding how different sort of episodes in how people become a new customer of a bank or credit union is sort of where I think what got the most focused so people you know started investing in account opening, onboarding sort of that initial, how do I draw people in, how do I bring them in? Um because there were a lot of new loans that needed to be, you know, distributed mortgages are at an all time high so that you know, focusing the attention on those products that were maybe less efficient, digitally sort of got the initial attention and I think you're starting to see the roll out of that. Yeah, it's and I think we'll continue to see some growth. They're both what I would call pre conversion as well as post conversion because we can spend all this time and effort energy acquiring new accounts but then we also just be, we must be mindful on on the retention side to make sure that it's not almost like a net zero. It's so we're actually, you know, retaining growing that share of wallet, building that relationship, if you could go back into your mind knowing what you know now, Uh and where we've been over the last couple of years, um it's December of 2020, what would you do differently? Knowing what you know now if you could do it again? Well, aside from keeping my portfolio heavily invested in the right stocks, it totally surprised everybody. Um you know, for me, I don't, I don't know that there's anything I do differently. Honestly, I think that what we did was it sort of allowed people to change their focus and get their focus on maybe how we work and I'll take it a little bit away from what what goes on with just banks or Fintech sor or companies like that. But I think what, I'm sort of most impressed that's coming out of the past two years has been, people are really thinking about what it means to have work life balance, what it means to work in a different way. And I think that's a very powerful trend In thinking about, we can work remote, we can be productive remotely. Um I think that's going to carry forward into the next 10 years and it was, it would have never happened without an accelerant like what we've seen over the past two years. So I think that's been the biggest driver and then people working remotely, I think gives you more courage to keep investing in digital because when you're sort of living it every day as a customer and as a consumer, it makes more sense and it drives people to the best. So that I think is probably the biggest long term effect that we'll see out of what's happened. It's interesting you bring up the idea of work life balance. I was just doing some writing about this for a financial brand that I'm coaching and one of the...

...things I'm I'm I was more speaking towards those work life integration. It's almost like previously we would we kind of have like the work self and then the at home personal self, but now we've almost been able to blend both of them together and and that opens up new opportunities for growth. What are you seeing from more of a talent play and maybe a talent pool for financial brands to look beyond, just say the quote unquote local market for talent and really expands nationally, maybe even internationally, where might there be some opportunities to to look to acquire talent in just different ways? Well, it's interesting. So, you know, we I put it on the nimbus journey roughly 12, 14 months ago and when I came in we had 100 and 50 staff and now we've grown to think today we're at 484 190 votes and That growth of adding over 300 people in 12 months. I don't, I don't think it would have been possible had we not been in the middle of this quote unquote, great resignation. I think the ability to go acquire train and onboard new people has been really, really accelerated and we benefited from that during the pandemic because people were re examining their options, people were rethinking about what it means to do. I want to go back to the office, do I want to work? Um, so for us it was a huge benefit because you know, adding that many people in a short amount of time is no small feat. Um, and so for us, the way that we looked at it is we weren't worried about are people leaving. We were, we were sort of, how do we take advantage of all these people? Re examining that? So you know, and, and but I think there's a lot of companies who maybe haven't caught up to the new culture shift of where people are going that are going to continue to lose talent. I would recommend like, you know, change your policies for your work, you know, your remote work strategy and make sure you really understand what it's gonna take to make your business thrive. And then if you can go more remote, take advantage of that and use that as a retention tool and a you know, attraction tool for new talent, Something that I'm seeing from financial brands that I've been coaching over the last 12 months specifically they've they've started to shift that focus. There's been, there's one organization in particularly in their marketing department, they've they've literally turned over the over the entire marketing department and now what they're they're doing is they're looking for talent beyond just the local market to where remote is an option. I'm like well yes because you've got you've got you've got so many more whose that can be the howl to the problems that you have and you almost get an exponential reality out of that. We're speaking a little bit about um you know, not just work life balance, work life integration, the new world of collaboration. If you look back over the past couple of years, any any surprising trends or patterns that...

...maybe made you just stop pause and say hmm that's that's interesting. I didn't I never really thought about that before. Okay. You know in terms of surprising, it's surprising me how many business leaders are sort of saying that people have to come back to the office or that there's this big push to come back to the office. Um I was actually having a conversation with the with the candidate to join our company yesterday and my my point of view on this is C. E. O. S. And C. Level executives need to be really thoughtful about what that policy is because if they start pushing that you have to come back into the app. Now there's customer facing roles, there's just have to be done in person. But if it can be done remotely and you're insisting on it from a person in person perspective, I think what you're signaling out to your company is that you don't trust them. And I think what you're signaling is saying like, hey, I saw that you could be really, really productive during the pandemic and we could grow and there were ways to get through these, you know, through this, this new way of working. But ultimately, at the end of the day, I still want to know that you're here, that you're working, that you're doing those things and some people will claim it's that that the benefit is really collaboration, but really, you know, we find lots of ways to collaborate when we're still remote. I think it's an excuse. And uh if I was joining a new company and there was somebody insisting on being in person, I'd be like, you don't have your business together, then I I requires you being person. I remember on a, on a podcast, maybe it was six months ago, I started to speak against this idea as things started to quote unquote, go back, people started to go back in person, how there is almost even a quote unquote, hidden costs if you will of going in person because now you have all of the interruptions, the, the phone calls the people walking in and it's just it's it's it's almost like the pendulum swung one way now I'm starting to swing back the other way. I think we'll find something here in the middle. But great point about trust. Um and it's something that that would be my aha moment coming out of this whole experience and really just this learning is the E. X. The employee experience will have a direct impact on the human experience that can be delivered through a digital experience in 2019. I wrote D. X. Plus H. X. Equals growth, digital experience plus the human experience. But then I saw specifically 2020 2021. How important the E. X. Is going to be because changes is really starting to pick up and and Covid I think was a preview of some of the massive changes and transformations we're going to experience. What's your take on that of just you know positive employee...

...experience and how that impacts almost every other area of the organization. Well I think it's it's brought to the forefront this concept of when does our work life And and when does our personal life begin? And I like the idea that you're going towards it. It's really about how does it integrate and how does it blend because there's not a there's not a separation anymore. Right. We don't work 9-5 anymore, right? Even if you're in a 9-5 jobs. I mean we're still checking emails were taking calls, were doing stuff. Some, some people late into the evening and weekends. And what I think I'm sort of happy about is that people have sort of woken up and going like, wait a minute, do I really need to work 80 hour weeks? And I love this concept of people coming back and going, hold on, we're not gonna glorify this workaholic sort of perspective that's been rewarded for the past 50 years. You can still be productive but not have to be completely dedicated to your work life. That's not who you are. And I really try to tell my, my team, it's like, hey, we love this company, We love what we're doing. We love our customers, but this is not who we are, right. Don't tie your identity to who who your job is and, and, and that sort of thing. You need to have more, you know, broader personal satisfaction than just what you're doing at work. And um, I think that, that coming out in society, I think even like there was a new law proposed or passed in Portugal making it illegal for companies to email their employees off hours now. I think that's, that's, that's a, that's a plan fraught with, how do you manage that? That might not be possible. And sometimes I want to be at nine o'clock at night emailing because maybe I didn't go to work till noon, that's okay. Like let me be flexible with my hours and I'll do that. But um it just means that the world is waking up going hold on the way that we work and what we expect out of ourselves needs to change. Yeah, that's a great point. I even think about my own personal habits here, like my brain does not turn on till 11 o'clock at night. It just, it just doesn't, I get my honestly my best deepest thinking work done between probably the hours of 11 and 2, 11 to 3. And I know it's it's it's weird, I just that's just how my mind works. It's always worked that way and I used to have a lot of guilt from it, but then that's just who I am, that's how my brain works and actually started going back and looking at like, you know, thomas Edison, like he kind of had this weird work pattern of just these off odd hours and so I just literally build my day around that. But back to your point of email, little personal hack here is actually use scheduled to send, so I might reply, but so that someone's like, what's this weirdo doing at, you know, 2 30 in the morning replying to emails I just scheduled to send out at 88 30 the next morning because it is it is that flexibility to allow us to work within our own kind of what I call unique growth ability um in in our own unique space because we're all individuals here working collectively and...

...collaboratively towards something better. But I like your point that we need that idea of balance. Today's episode of banking on digital growth is brought to you by Nimbus who believes in creating even better financial services for all better access, better experiences, better value, all while supporting the entire customer journey. And how do they do this offering end to end niche banking solutions that you can buy or build, providing accountability beyond the technology and prioritizing impactful intentional innovation instead of chasing features ready to transform what is and create what's next. Learn more at nimbus dot com. Well, I like the idea you just brought up this idea of a hack. One of the things that I found really successful is if you tell your teams like, hey, I might send you an email or a text on the weekend, I don't expect a response, I'm doing it because it's top of my mind right now. But if I send it, I don't want you to stress out that hey, I owe Jeffrey response right at that time and I also as a leader, I'm trying to be better about you think things like scheduled descent because it's not fair to someone to, you know, if Larry on my team is getting emails from me at 10 o'clock on a saturday, even if I tell him like, hey, don't worry about it. I don't want a response. It's still like sends off that ping in our brain and like, oh I got something else I gotta take care of. So I try to be better about that. But I also just try to be really open with our teams about what the expectation is and responding. I've gotten super extreme on this front personally. Once again, I think you lead by example on this. And so I took email off my phone, I took social media off my phone, I took the internet browser off my phone and so essentially I have a dumb smartphone because a lot of it was just my own personal behaviors and I'll even go ahead and say addictions if you will. And so I had to change my environment to work for me now, every now and then I'll go instilled Alina's phone and you know, hop on and might google something. But I mean it, but it's been a forcing function that has kept me honest because otherwise I'll just fall back into kind of like these old patterns and old behaviors, which is what I was saying, you know, going back six months ago, once we start going back to the way things were before, I have a feeling that it's easy to slip back into this, what I call the cave of complacency, that level of comfort where it, it creates a pseudo sense of security, but in reality it's a very dangerous place to be if if we look out into the future now, let's just say over the next Three years to get us to that 40 year anniversary of back to the future, 2025, Looking from 2025 back to 2022, what do you feel are the biggest opportunities available for financial brands, maybe even fin techs...

...collaboratively here to create, to capture what would those be? Yeah, I think that everything's gonna, you know, no surprise on this answer. It's gonna, banks and credit unions are gonna wake up to how they use digital to acquire new customers and sell new products and that is everybody has talked about that for years. But I think from the vendor community, from the technical community, what has dominated has been self service tools. So if you go back 2010-2020 everybody talked about mobile, mobile mobile, but mobile was really check your balances, pay a bill was transacting it was doing john Jenkins, who's president of RQ, so coined this term. I think one time I love using it, it's uh doing that, that your financial chores. That was what digital was about. Just, just got to get stuff done. And now, you know, because of the pandemic, we started talking about digital onboarding, digital acquisition, client acquisition, growing the footprint and I think the next wave is going to be even more exciting about how do we deliver new products and services that are digital through those channels that banks can actually monetize. So it's going, you know, we're working with a number of digital focused brands that yes, they have a debit card, yes, they have deposits, yes, they have lending those sorts of things. But you're starting to see people going, you know what, we should provide that niche group of small businesses with advisory services, right? What if what if we could charge $10 per month for access to a CFO for small businesses that somebody who knows how to deal with complex tax questions and you can, you know, phone a friend when you have a question. Those are the services that banks and credit unions actually starting to have opportunities of saying, here's a new product or service. It's not traditionally what we would think of as a regulated product from a bank or credit union, But it helps the lives of the consumer. They're trying to destroy and create stickier relationships. I think for the next 3-7 years, that's going to be the focus and where the people who do digital right and win will be focused on those things. I was just having this conversation with the CFO yesterday because of this whole interchange and what Ally has done and what cap one is doing. And it's almost kind of putting some downward pressure on some credit unions, you know, they looked at like 80% of their revenue has the potential to just just disappear because it's, it's that idea of non interest income coming from NSF's and I'm like, well back to your point, this idea of advisory charge for that. It's an expertise that we bring and I almost think it's like we fail to realize the value that that expertise can bring to provide clarity to provide. Even I would I would say it is hope and...

...you know, it's interesting. Even Wells Fargo and almost Wells Fargo, I feel like they stole from banking on digital growth, this idea that people need help and hope they had a whole positioning campaign to end 2021 around that. But hope alone is just one part of the equation and there's also the, the helping side of that as well on the idea of hope. I'm curious what are you just most hopeful about When you look out at the macro level here at a large scale over the next three years to get us to 2025? You know, for me, I'd really like to see this debate of fin techs, are they friends or foes? I'm getting tired of that debate. You were just, you know, I think people who sort of number one, the people who start those debates are, are the vendor community, let's be honest, it's, it's the, it's the media and vendor community, it's not within the banks themselves, but I think there's an opportunity here for banks to stop being afraid of external factors and to start embracing how they can take advantage of them. And that's just a mindset, right? If I see something that's changing the way that my consumers behave, don't panic and be like, oh my gosh, we need to, you know, step up this or shut down branches or it's like look inside, why is that changing? What's, what's going on that's making people you know behave in this different way and then take advantage and say how can I help? That's that's the way to draft off of a dynamic change going on in the market. And I think we just tend not to as people, not just bankers or whatever. It's probably an industry, any industry. Um but that the innovative mindset says how do I leverage it versus fight against it? It's an idea what I would say is is you kind of mentioned the human behavior but may be bringing more anthropology, psychology sociology into the mix of these conversations because that's that's the core essence of it all. I I know that there are some financial brands who are bringing CBOs chief behavioral officers into the mix to really facilitate some of this internally. What about dangers. Um things just to be aware of, I think you mentioned this, you know, the tired Fintech friend or foe that's that's that's so last decade? Um let's let's look real practically dangerous. What are the dangers that we need to be aware of that could could cause some some issues heartburn, heartache. Well this is going to be a super unpopular opinion but I would say for the banking community understand what your strategy is around crypto and currency in that...

...way. But and I don't mean understand like that. Everyone needs a strategy, everyone doesn't need a crypto strategy and I think everybody, there's a lot of vendor activity in the market saying everybody every bank needs to offer crypto. I think what we're seeing right now is if you're a community bank or credit union think this through, do you really want your members putting their assets and their wealth into crypto if they don't understand it or don't have the um you know aren't in a financial position to take the swings of a very volatile investment vehicle and I am very much a free market, it's sort of you know, I believe in letting the free market do what it do what it does. But I think it's irresponsible of us to go out and have this position of like everybody should be in Bitcoin. No they shouldn't, You know what last week told us. No they should not because some people can't take a 20% swing in their in their net worth and if you're if you don't have much money and you're putting it into Bitcoin with the hopes of getting rich quick because it's a bet it's gambling don't be confused? You know then then I think you use a credit union or bank or probably facilitating some behavior that's probably not good for your customers. And I think we just I don't know how it's gonna win. I'm not somebody who's gonna bet against crypto or bet against N. F. T. But you better do it responsibly and you better do it in a way that is there to assist your customers not put them in a position where they can get into financial hurt. That's a great point. And and once again it comes back to putting people at the center of of of our thinking the center of our are doing. I even think you know real real practically here an opportunity would be How do we even know does a bank or a credit even know how much is exiting from the deposit side of the balance sheet and going into something like a coin base. I mean it's super easy to find out like just run an analysis and see you know over the last 90 days, 180 days, You know 365 days how much has moved from you know your side over into like a coin base or any of these other crypto exchanges. It'll be really telling of what those behaviors are and then maybe offer some maybe education around it because I think a lot of people are there's a lot of hype around this. Once again I'm not betting against it. I think like we're in the early days of the Internet. It's like 1990 for 1995, We're gonna need to fill this out, get a little bit more clarity, but we got to protect people, to from making decisions that could end up having very negative long term implications to their financial health, to their financial well being. What do you think? I totally agree. And, and this is, you know, a topic that's near and dear to my heart, is that I think still financial institutions aren't really, they're not benefiting from the power of the data that they have this number one to your point, which is, they should know, right? That should be something you should be able to say. Uh, you know, out of the 1.5 billion in...

...deposits, we had less, you know, quarter 100 million went to point base or you know, 50 million went to Robin Hood. You should be able to have some point of view on that piece of it. And then at an individual account level, you could conceivably provide investment advice to somebody who, you know, Maybe they only get half $2,000 in their account, but they just made $1,000 deposit to coin base. You know, maybe send an alert to be like, hey, you know, like we can, we can offer other safe investment vehicles that through, you know, trying to figure out a way to maximize your money and things like that. But um there, there was recently a, a new Fintech that came out that targeted a specific ethnic community with Bitcoin investing and I really admire the idea of inclusivity and making sure that, you know, everybody is educated, but it was like this wholesale message of like, everybody should be in crypto and I'm like, no, not everybody should be in crypto, that's just flat out, I believe that, but you got to balance your risk with your, you know, with your means. There's a, there's a great narrative that was told a few years ago, I used to use it in workshops of how basically personifies the confusion around investing, it was from Wealthfront, and it was this younger guy, he's kinda like walking through life and he has all of these messages being bombarded at him of, like, it's, it really is the ultimate confusion. It's like, what do I do? And I think that comes back to the more that we can simplify the more that we can provide clarity and, and, and a path forward through all of this noise, the better off people will be getting to the other side, whatever that means to them, because everyone's on a different journey. Everyone has different goals and aspirations. I even think, I don't know, maybe that's that's another opportunity. I know we're riffing at this point, but it's always fun, just to kind of like, just Blue sky, blue sky stuff helping people get clear about what their goals in life are to begin with in the first place. I've seen some research on the subject because we've looked into it. It's like 98% of Americans really have never set down and written out what they want their life to look like to begin with. And so if we can maybe provide not a how to buy a house workshop, but just Let's just sit you down, lets you look out, you know, three years, five years, 10 years, 15, 20 years and start writing down what you want that future reality to look like. Maybe that could be an opportunity there. And then hey, we're going to provide that level of coaching, that level of accountability financially to support you for whatever that could be. I don't know what, what you, what you think, it's a great idea. I mean, how many times do you sat...

...around a boardroom and you know, sort of talked and discussed and debated the importance of strategic plan for the company, but you need a strategic plan for your life. Yeah. You know, and that's actually one of my friends is uh he was telling me that he and his spouse did a really interesting workshop that was all around strategic planning for your marriage. Where do you know, we've been married, five years, where do we want to be in 20 years as a married couple. What do we need to do to get there? And I thought that's a pretty clever way of thinking about being intentional about your, your life. And it's surprising, it surprises me how many of us don't have strategic plans for our lives there. It is part of the book series Banking on You. I like that. That's a good one. I'm telling you man, like it's going to come out of this conversation. We're gonna be able to look back three years from now. We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna have that one. Let's get real practical. And this is it's always so much fun riffing with you on this going forward. Let's just say over the next 90 two, days, pulling in a little bit closer, what would you recommend the next step be for a financial brand to continue to move forward? To continue to make progress along their digital growth journey. Something small that they can commit to? It's not overwhelming, but it will give them some momentum going forward to put some wind in the cells and and build their level of confidence, you know, for us, one of the things that we do a lot of and I think it always is helpful even if someone decides not to go forward with the project, but is doing some data analytics around what's the art of the possible in your market, you know, maybe some brainstorming around? Are there specific segments or groups or niches of people that we can serve and what types of products and services would, would help them out more and whether that's identifying, you know, recently graduated students that need help with student loans or, you know, gig economy workers that wanna put a down payment on a house, you know, just identifying some group of people and something that you could do to help them out doing the exercise and getting some data through partners. Um and that partner could be someone like you, that partner could be someone like Nimbus labs and what we do, but I think it's really just sort of sitting down and saying, hey, if I got an extra $250,000 as a banker to go invest next year to grow, what would I bet on? What would I put it in? Because I don't think people think about their initiatives enough like, hey, this is a, this is a bet that we're making in a strategic play. No, I agree with you on that. And I think it's a really good approach. It's really practical. It's something that someone can can, can move forward with um and it's small, it's measurable and...

...it's meaningful if someone wants to continue the dialogue, the discussion that we started here because to me it's like this is this is where all growth begins, It it just begins with dialogue, it begins with discourse, it begins with ideation and we've got a lot of ideas that have come out from where we've been, where we're at, where we could grow next. What's the best way that someone could reach out, connect with you say hello? Yeah, absolutely, linkedin is definitely the, the easiest way to contact, contact me or jake Kendall at nimbus dot com. The one thing I would say is that, you know what we are trying to do is be a different type of tech provider and all of our conversations with our customers. We don't want to start with the technology, We start with what is it that you're trying to do? What is that for a map? What is that growth path that you're on? What's the ambition for your bank or credit union and what do you hope to provide? And then use technology to fill in the gaps, not make technology an end in itself. And I really want to encourage the community out there to, you know, we're not the only people that think like that. By the way, there's lots of good, you know, providers and partners in the in the space that can do that, but reach out to people and have a, have a thoughtful conversation and then decide what you're going to do from a tech perspective, but don't put the other one before the before, you know, before that? Well, it's really three steps, It's insights to ideation to transformation and one informs the next so three steps, insights lead to ideation, audie ation leads to transformation and it's through transformation that leads to continued future growth, Jeffrey, There's been a lot of fun, always, always a pleasure. Thanks for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth, appreciate James robert as always and until next time be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of Banking on digital growth with James robert ley brought to you by Nimbus who is on a mission to bring the people process and technology together to create new routes to growth for financial brands and enable them to deliver outcomes to learn more about how you can collaborate with Nimbus to maximize your future digital growth potential visit www dot nimbus dot com until next time, be well and do good.

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