Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 months ago

144) #ExponentialInsights: Sales & Relationship-Building in a Digital World

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s time to face reality: Banking is not going back to the “good ol’ days.”

Whether that means the ‘70s, when customers begged for loans, or a couple years ago when banking was still mostly done in person.

And if banks don’t understand that, the only good ol’ days they’ll relive happened about 65 million years ago — when all the other dinosaurs disappeared.

Today’s guest, Jack Hubbard, Chief Experience Officer at St. Meyer & Hubbard, got his start in banking back in the supposed good ol’ days of the ‘70s and, for him, there are no better days than the ones we’re living now.

Well, for financial brands who learn to sell and build relationships in a digital world, that is.

In this episode, we discuss:

- The changes in banking and how banks can adapt

- The difference between a sales culture and a performance culture

-Why LinkedIn is something financial brands should embrace, not fearn Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

And it's fascinating to me how some ofthese community bankers uh in small banks 7 50 a billion less than that.They're still in the dark ages as it relates to sales and we better webetter wise up or or were our industry is a dinosaur if we're if we're notcareful mm you're listening to banking on digitalgrowth. With James robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand,marketing, sales and leadership teams To maximize their digital growthpotential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode ispart of the exponential insight series where James robert ley interviews theindustry's top marketing sales and fin tech leaders, sharing practical wisdomto exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetingsand hello, I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 144th episode of theBanking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Jack Hubbard to theshow. Jack is the chief experience officer at ST Meyer and Hubbard helpingto transform the way bankers hold virtual and face to face trust basedconversations, which is a very important subject, particularly aswe're continuing to move through a post Covid experience into a digital firstworld. Welcome to the show Jack. Well, James robert, it's uh it's a realprivilege. You have an amazing name in the industry, everybody in the worldknows you and it's a, it's a real honor to be under show today. Well, thank you,thank you for the kind words and thank you for being on as well before we getinto this conversation around cells and building relationships in a digitalworld, I'm curious to know what is going well for you right now. What'sgood personally, professionally, it's always your pick to start. You know, IWhen I'm at age 71, getting up in the morning and having a lot of energy tocontinue to serve clients is a really important thing for me. The other thingthat I'm really enjoying a lot is uh you know, we have 12 people in ourbusiness and six of them are either ST Myers or Hubbard's and so what reallyexcites me is to be able to sit down with the family and chat throughmarketing and sales and training and everybody brings something so unique tothe table. I guess the other thing that's exciting for me and this isn'texciting for a lot of people, but I I love seeing the changes that are goingon in banking. I I think bankers have been forced in a lot of ways to becomemore entrepreneurial, more involved in technology, which is, you're certainlylevel of expertise and I think we've been forced to be closer to thecustomer and all of those things, even though the pandemic has been a horriblesituation have been a very positive...

...long term end, I think for banking,well you make a great point. The pandemic has been hard, it's beenchallenging. But I think two minds that when you look for the good, when youlook for the opportunities in those challenging situations, you can comeout on the other side, even better than what you were before. And and takeyourself for example, I mean you know you've You've been doing one thingfocused on one industry banking, teaching cell skills. Um and and reallydoing this in the industry that you've loved since the day that you've joinedit as a collector and a loan officer going back to 1973. Take me back, takeme back to 1973. What was life like? What was cells like in banking backthen? Well and it goes back farther because when I was very young, my mymom and dad for christmas I think my grandparents were probably involved inthis too bought me a wall in sac tape recorder. A lot of people will notremember what those were because we record on our phones now, but there wasa huge recorder, tape recorder real too real. And they gave me a microphone andI was always been a big cub fan and I always wanted to be the play by playvoice of the Chicago cubs. So I would turn the sound down on the television,recording editing, listened back to it and I would do that constantly. Andthen I did football etcetera. So when I went to college that was my wholebackground and that's what I really wanted to do. But when I graduated fromcollege I had gotten married in 1972 and we I needed a job it was late 1972and I saw a two line ad uh in a management recruiters is the name ofthe company and it was a bank collector uh and two line ad blind and I answeredit and I was fortunate enough to uh get it, get the job and that's when Istarted. But to your point about sales, it's interesting. One of my mentors isa gentleman named Kent stickler who is so famous in the industry and awonderful wonderful amazing man. And he and I used to talk a lot about bankingand how we owned in the seventy's 74% of the market share of the financialservices industry. I've read a statistic that we're down to 14% orless and I think unfortunately we've let that go and part of it is hubrisPart of it is when I was in banking in 73. Um And when I was in collecting andthen I got into marketing and sales I would see people come into the bank andvirtually begged for alone and there were people called platform people andthey were E. V. P. S. And they sat on the platform and the platform was evena step above people so they have to step up or they would have to sit belowthe platform. and and to get alone, they basically had to beg for itbecause we were the only game in town Now it's so much different and I thinkit's forced bankers to be a lot more creative. So needless to say as youmentioned since 1973, sales have just migrated so fast. But I think one ofthe challenges and I think I see this...

...especially in community banking is thata lot of bankers are still living in the dark ages. I'm grading papers nowJames robert for L. S. U. Graduate School of Banking and it's fascinatingto me how some of these community bankers uh in small banks 7 50 abillion less than that. They're still in the dark ages as it relates to salesand we better we better wise up or or were our industry as a dinosaur ifwe're if we're not careful. Yes because to your point this idea being in thedark ages we've seen the transformation exponentially increase over the last 18months as a result of the pandemic change was already happening beforechanges in technology which was driving changes in consumer behavior the waythey shop, the way they buy, which was driving changes in the way of ofcompetition, I. E. Fintech but the last 18 months has increased thetransformational speed moving from the physical world of brick and mortar andgreat point on like even the idea of the way that branches were structuredthe platform elevating people, people having to step up to that level or orbe below it. Um That's not the case anymore. What have you seen, lookingback, not just over the past year since 73, but really just the last 18 monthsof the exponential changes, the exponential transformations when itcomes to cells, particularly when We can't see people, people don't comeinto the branch anymore. If they do they're they're already 80% of the wayalong a buying journey. They just need to get a little bit more confirmation. You know, back in the late eightieswhen deregulation happened, bankers really wanted to have control, give uscontrol of our industry because we used to operate in what we used to call a363 rule of banking bringing in at three, lend it out at six and be on thegolf course by three o'clock. You had to be a complete idiot or completecriminal not to make money and banking back then. So when when the 80shappened in deregulation happened, everybody liked it, but nobody knewwhat to do with it. Um so the elephant in the room was okay, there'sderegulation, we can do whatever we want, but what do we do and I thinkthat's the same thing that happened in the pandemic. We knew we had to dosomething but we didn't know exactly what I would say that the governmenthelped us out a lot with P. P. P. Process. At least we had a process thatsaid okay the government is going to guarantee all these loans. What we nowhave to do is banks is to scramble around and figure out how to book themand how to fund them. And you know we did uh in a very short period of timewe were able to ramp things up. I'm on the board of directors of a Of acommunity bank, of a member of the...

Wintrust family of banks. And we rampedup really fast. We had over 250 people on this thing and we knew that this wasa great opportunity. So bankers got to do what they really could do which isto be innovative, put things together that were much more client focused. AndI think the other thing is it forced even the smallest banks to look at. I'msure you saw this in your business. It even forced the smallest banks to thinkdigitally because customers couldn't come into the bank. We couldn't comeinto the bank. So how are you going to do banking without doing itelectronically? And I think firms like yours, other third party vendors, fintechs etcetera have really forced our hand in a lot of ways. And I think it'sreally good. I think the real challenge with this James robert is that a lot ofbankers I believe want to go back now to the good old days, well the pandemicis over but the fact is it's not the customer got a whiff of technology,They know how to use digital banking now more than ever before, the brancheswill still be relatively viable. But the customer now is in control. Andwhen you asked about 1973 I think that is the biggest difference, bankers werein control of 73 in 2021 and going forward. The customers has all thecontrol. Digital growth is a journey from good to great. But sometimes thisjourney can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is youdon't have to take this journey alone because now you can join a community ofgrowth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fintechs who are all learning, collaborating and growing togethervisit digital growth. Com slash insider to learn more about how you can jointhe digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growthpotential. Now back to the show. Yeah. And and and that's because of theselittle devices that we carry around in our pocket, we can get access to anyinformation that we need in a personal aside on this, it's one of the reasonsthat I have uninstalled uh safari from my iphone, I've uninstalled email, I'veuninstalled social media. So in essence I have a dumb smartphone because Ifound for me personally it was just too much and so it was you know creatingaddictive behaviors personal side on that, but it's where you do like as Ilove, I love to learn. And so if I wanted to find something out, what do Ido? I google it. But when that takes away from the relationship that I havewith my wife and my kids are those that I'm around, we gotta, we gottatransport, we have to to master technology so that technology does notmaster us. And I think that's you mentioned something to startentrepreneurial innovation. The pandemic has been a forcing functionand I always like to play games when I'm when I'm coaching a financial brand,Let's assume X happens over here. Let's...

...say assume you lose this capability.What would you do to pivot and work around that? And that's what we've seenhere with with the last 18 months and and I think to you're on to somethingwhere the consumers in control and if the consumers in control, the idea thatvery word cells maybe that's going through a transformational experience.Because one of the things that you talk and write a lot about is building aperformance culture, not a cell's culture but a performance culture.What's the difference between a performance culture and a cell'sculture? Yeah, that's a great question and and it's it's a it's not a spin, itis a subtlety I believe and when when Bob ST. Myron are started the businessin uh in 2001 of the things that we said was we're going to take severalwords out of our dictionary, retirement is the first word we took out of ourdictionary. The second word is phrases cross selling. We never believed in it.I think it makes the customer of victim and we like cross solving. Um we don'tlike sales cultures for the same exact reason. And there have been someorganizations that have proven the customer is a victim and that sully'severybody's name. So the difference between a sales culture and aperformance culture is are are subtle but it's important. Banks have spentbillions of dollars on sales training events. They buy motivational speakers,they buy things in a box, they look at a video and think they're trained. Uhand they're not, we believe that a sales culture is is rests on a learningorganization. Those organizations that decide that they want to make sure thattheir people have the tools and resources forever to make change onbehalf of the bank and the customer and part of that is in a, in a salesculture for example, the the Ceo is involved many times and the Ceo'sinvolvement is, I'll sign the check. I always tell the story at graduateschool of banking. The difference between involvement and commitment. Youknow it if you had great bacon and eggs for breakfast this morning, the chickenwas involved, the pig was committed and we need commitment and so in aperformance culture? Everybody from the top down. Not only goes through thetraining, but has the accountability at the end, at the back end. And that'sanother difference of a performance culture and assailants culture. We do alot of sales training. We spend a lot of money. There are a lot of greatcompanies out there that do that in a performance culture, everything afterthe training has the meaning. It's all about the coaching, the counseling andmentoring, the reinforcement of sales leaders. And I think the last thingI'll mention about performance culture versus sales culture is the termflexible consistency. We've got a lot of organizations and you work with themto that have pretty extensive footprints. Some of those branches aregrowth oriented branches where they...

...don't have much market share. We needto have someone in there that's a real sales oriented person. Then we have abalanced market where we have some good markets here, but it's still growing.We need somebody in there that can sell and serve. And then we have retentionmarkets where we don't want to lose any customers. We want to provide greatservice. That's the flexibility. But the consistency is, this is our culture.This is our first national way of doing business. You're going to run a meetingin a retention branch. It's going to have the same backbeat as a growthbranch. Your subject matter is just a little bit different. Here's one finalthing James robert in a sales culture. We do, we count tick marks, how manymeetings did you do? How many calls did you make? None of that is reallyimportant. What I care about is when you do a call, how good is it when youdo a team meeting, does somebody leave with more than they had when they cameinto that meeting? When you have those kind of things working on? You have aperformance culture because here's a fact you're, nobody wants to be sold toyour customers. Don't get up in the morning and say, geez, I hope somebodysells me something today but they do want performance, we want performanceas a bank and as an individual you and I want to perform every single day.That's a difference. That's a great point and I want to come back tosomething that you shared because it's, it's key. Yeah. A performance culture Iwould say is, is even rooted deeper in a culture of continuous learning,continuous education, continuous optimization. And one of the thingsthat we teach are the four growth environments. You can be learning, youcould be thinking, you could be doing, you can be reviewing where people getstuck is in the doing of anything. It doesn't matter if it's in digital ortechnology doesn't matter if it's in cells and so it's important to createspace and time to review what you've done learned through the experience,gained some new insights. Think about those insights and how they can applyto your next iteration of doing so you're always learning, you're alwaysbeing even better than what you were before. And I think that's where I'minterested to to guide this conversation with you because one ofthe things that that you've done as you have training, you've optimized yourtraining even for a digital world. And one of the elements of of subjectmatter is remote relationship development. And when people either acannot as we saw with the pandemic come into a physical branch to build arelationship or be now probably going forward will choose not now they havethe option and everything comes down to choice. But I think when when we losethat, that that that that power that control people as you mentioned beforeare empowered. How might financial brands build relationships withprospects, build relationships with customers in a remote digital world?...

Well, first I think it's therealization that we are in a hybrid selling economy forever. Uh you know,people talk about the next normal, I like to talk about it in terms of theforever normal and I think unfortunately and this goes back to ourconversation about banking, I think too often what happens is bankers getlulled to sleep like okay, this, this too shall pass things will get better.The fact is that there are going to be more variance the kids are going tocome home sick from school, there is going to be a winter storm in bostonand we have to get our bankers to realize that when they're home theystill can be productive and to your point of doing, I like to call itexecution, they can be executioners when they are at home in doing remotekinds of things. So so hybrid selling is here to stay. Unfortunately, what alot of bankers haven't thought about, we did a study, we found that 70% ofbank executives said that they had not provide the tools training or resourcesto bankers to be successful in a hybrid environment. So we still are in thismindset of well this is going away, we're all back to the office, buthere's a fact, If you look at any study, 70, 80, 90% of people are going to workfrom home at least one, if not two or three days a week, those are potentialbuyers. The banker is not going to be able to go to their home, likely tomake these calls. So what we have to do is we have to realize that hybridselling is a going forward situation and I kind of think there's four areasthat are really critical in this One is the technology skills, you havemastered the technology, you are a master of technology at age 71, I knowenough to get run a zoom meeting really, really effectively. Um, and I knowenough about the technology and I know enough about the technology related toa conversation around lighting, um, audio cameras, positioning things likethat. I know enough to be able to do that. We need to help our bankers withthat. The second thing is the conversation itself, we can haveincredibly effective conversations as we're doing today on a virtual meeting.So we need to teach bankers. How do I ask really good questions withoutconstantly looking down at my paper. How do I take notes without doing that?The third thing is when a partner joins, what happens if your wife would join uson the call or one of your colleagues or my daughter in law or my son? Wellif this was a sales conversation now it gets much more complex. There needs tobe additional rehearsal and we need to understand, well who's going to take itfrom here, Who's going to show the leave behind, who's going to use thewhiteboard et cetera. And the last thing and we talked about this and I'llbe brief, but it's all about sales leadership. It's understanding how tolead people in a remote environment, how to keep them engaged, how to coachthem. I was, we have a very, very large...

...client And I was running a zoom meetingwith them uh late in 2020 and I said to them, so Treasury management, 100people, sales people, how likely is it that you record your meetings on a callso that you can coach to them. The head of Treasury management didn't even knowthat you could record meetings on zoom. So we need to help leaders get betterat coaching and using the tools of their trade so that when a hybridenvironment happens and it's going to happen forever that our bankers areeffective at that, wow. You know, we could, we could literally couldprobably just do an entire conversation around those four points and go super,super deep. I want to roll back on on one the idea of technology and evencoaching. Um chorus ai chorus dot Ai. Are you familiar with Chorus dot ai?Not heard of them? Know the chorus dot ai Ai literally takes a conversation,transcribes it in real time. So now the conversation that you and I are havingnow we have this documented what does that do that We can then pull out keypoints, throw that into a Crm that then increases Crm adoption. Because one ofthe things that we're finding is why does Crm, why has it been a horribleexperience? Well, we use Kobe as as a, as a measure of a person's naturaloperating system and it looks at the cognitive part of the brain? Not, notthe emotional side, not the intellectual side. And so it looks atfour areas fact finding, follow through quick start and implementer. And whatwe're tending to find is those who are in cells have a higher naturalinitiating quick start and a lower follow through. So now you're saying Iwant you to follow through and put in all this information into the crm. Wellthat's outside of my natural operating strength. I can do it but it's gonnamake me tired and grumpy. Now that's where the technology can be the bridgeto get the information, the conversation that we're having and movethat into the crm so that we can then take that and actually take some action.So a little bit of an aside of like even just technology here in real timeand what some of the opportunities are to take things and make them evenbetter going forward. You mentioned, let me, let me let me jump in and giveyou a customer spin on that. So let's say that you had, I believe you saidchorus dot Ai or I O. Or whatever. Uh if they were to transcribe this, wewere transcribe this call and you were a potential customer. What I could dois a banker then is I could take those notes, copy a few of them make thesalient points back to you as the customer, we call it a conversationrecap then here's what I can do since I have copied you the customer becausethat's your information and you should see it and probably no other bankerssending a follow up that way. I can also copy that information, paste itinto the crm and now I have my call...

...report all done. I've done double dutyin halftime. Well here we go. We're actually creating solutions on the flytogether, which is why I love doing these conversations because it really,I mean this is, this, to me is the future of banking. It's collaborative.It's bringing the best of all these different thoughts, all these differentareas of functionality and expertise and unifying. Because I think when youthink about marketing and sells historically they've kind of been oddswith each other. I don't think that can be the case anymore. Marketing andsales must work hand in hand together because there's there's a little bit ofoverlap. Marketing creates the awareness, it controls the positioningin the marketplace and it generates some leads specifically digitally who'sgonna pick those leads up. It's got to be the cells team, that's where theirexpertise is. You mentioned something here about, you know, working remotelybuilding relationships remotely. Let's get the low down on linked in. Um it'sa, it's a growth area, it's a growth opportunity, it's a little bit ofmarketing, it's a little bit of cells, it's kind of like that hybrid approachof growth. You've, you've spent a lot of time in linkedin. I mean you evenhave your Jack rants which I highly recommend. People subscribe and and andlisten to to continue to learn from you. But what's, what's the low down onlinkedin here for cells people. Well, there are some, there are, thereare a lot of myths around Lincoln James robert, especially in banking. Um bankpresidents will say, well if my people are gonna be on linkedin, um therecruiters are going to find him and they'll quit. Well they're going toquit anyway if that's the culture that you've put into environment. Uh it'sfacebook for business. So I'll put my picture of my dog out there. There's alot of miss, here's a here's a real tragic fact. The average bankers onlinked in 17 minutes a month. The average high performing salesperson ison two hours a day. I live on linked in uh not to sell but to provide value. Sowe as an industry need to do a much better job of helping bankersunderstand how do you linked in as a value education and connection toolbecause you can indeed build partnerships on linked in. I'll giveyou one example of how of how we've taught bankers how to do this duringthe pandemic. If you, if you take out your phone and you have your linkedinapp on your phone, what you can do is actually send a video message out toanyone that's a first degree connection with you. So during the pandemic, thefirst thing I wanted our people to do is to talk to all of our clients vialinkedin. Um and we wanted them to send out messages. You can, it's between sixseconds and a minute, it's not about pushing product, it's not about talkingabout the bank, it's how you doing, hope you're doing fine, want to let youknow we're all okay here, if there's anything we can do to help let me know cleaning content, I'm huge on postingcontent, I do at least once a day,...

...maybe twice a day. I'm in linkedingroups et cetera. The little subtleties around linkedin can really help abanker make a huge difference and I still think of all the industries thatI know we are the most far behind on this process and when you talk aboutprospecting um Lincoln has an amazing tool called sales navigator, which inmy mind is the greatest prospecting tool ever created by humans. There isno reason to ever buy a list again. You can go live with your linkedin and youcan do a search and you can narrow it down to a block by industry and you cansay I want to talk to those people and their living humans who actually workat that business, those are the kind of things and I love what you said aboutsales and marketing, working together, it's a smart getting approach marketingneeds to help bankers with their linkedin profiles and leads and thingslike that, bankers need to take control, they need to execute on their ownCarrie Anne Benton Simpson and you and I were talking about this before we hitrecord there's an interview that I have from you from 2014 at the financialbrand form in Las Vegas Carryin was also a part of this conversation aswell and she is now as she's the chief marketing officer at J. M. M. B. Group,she's been on the podcast before and one of the things that she's doing isshe is working to as a marketer as a CMO to empower her bankers to buildpersonal brands. Because I see this honestly this is the future ofmarketing over the next 235 years, particularly as like data privacy, youknow, continues to be a hot topic um like we're seeing the changes withthird party cookies, we're seeing the changes with the inbox and the IOS 15update if if market has become blind then what's the best marketing channelin the world? It's it's people and I mean even even just recently had aconversation with Natalie Bartholomew, all the girl, the girl banker um andand and her quote was this people bank with people not with banks as a banker,there's an immense amount of opportunity there to establish yourselfas a trusted individual in this space. You're echoing her, She's echoing you,let me ask what's the roadblock, what's holding bankers back from really movingforward and capturing some of this opportunity here. Yeah, I think I thinkuh and by the way when you mentioned Natalie, she just joined Gil Castillodown at the bank in Oklahoma. And I think one of the things that bankersthat I see when I teach at banking schools is little community banks likethat and they're not little there 34, 500 million. Um think they constantlyhave pity parties for themselves. And it's unfortunate because like, thelinked in to answer your question. I think community bankers biggest problemis between their ears. It's their...

...belief, their belief system that linkedin is a recruiting tool. It's not their belief is that if I'm on linked in, I'mgoing to be viewed as sales. E that if I connect with a bunch of people onlinked in uh and I connect with my competitors, they're going to know whomy customers are. Those are all myths of linked in just like we're too smallto be able to do this. You've got clients that you've worked with thatare very small community banks and so do we. It's all about attitude. It'sall about what's in between your ears. That's a great point because I I seethat it's the smaller institutions that have a competitive advantage in a modellike this versus the larger because the larger you get, the more complexity, wehad a A bank in our program, 23,000 people out of South Africa. And we aretalking about this very subject, I said, just imagine you have 23,000 people. Ifthey were to go and post individually on social media doesn't matter thechannel, I don't care. And let's just hypothetically say you get a reach,average reach of 100 people on that is probably the more but to make the math,that's 230,000 impressions and then you can multiply that and that technologyis that it's the multiplier. Technology will multiply the good but technologywill also multiply the not so good and there's that cultural aspect which isthe conversations that we have with ourselves up here and overcoming thefear of the unknown, the fear of change, even some of the fear of failures onthe flip side looking ahead towards the future. And this has been a greatconversation today Jack, I appreciate everything. What are you most excitedabout? What are you most hopeful about as you look ahead towards the future?Uh when it comes to cells in a hybrid world, as you've mentioned before, mybiggest excitement is when I see young bankers who are willing to take on themantle of our industry and take it to the next level and one of those nextlevels is what we call resource management. The fact that a youngerbanker will take on the tools and use the tools like you mentioned the crmvertical, like providing value and one of the things that we're talking aboutis this idea of resource management. How do I become a go to banker, how doI become a resource and the younger people that I'm teaching and trainingreally buy into that because that's the kind of world they want to live in as acustomer and when that kind of thing happens, the banking industry thrives.I always say if you do a great job for your customers, you'll never have toworry about the competition, you will be the competition. And I'm seeing alot of younger bankers adopt that mindset, you know, I I mentionedNatalie before, I think about paul long...

...as well, who's been on the podcast, Ithink about Greg martin and they are, they are positioning themselves as Isee banking is such a noble industry. I mean we really truly have theopportunity to transform lives, you transform a person's wallet, youtransport form their physical well being, their mental well being, becausea person's mental health, physical health, financial health, they're allinterconnected. The research is starting to come out and actually provethat I think is something that we all knew all along. But now to be able toquantify that is really important as we move forward together in this industry.Speaking about moving forward, I want to get really practical here at the end.What's one small step that someone who is listening can take to continue tomove forward along just their own journey of growth when it comes tocells in a hybrid world, maybe they're not in cells, maybe they're inmarketing or leadership that they can pass this along. What's the one smallstep because all all change all transformation begins with a smallsimple step. What would that be? What's that recommendation? Remember this phrase? The buyer has theanswers, the seller has the questions to differentiate yourself in good times,bad times. All the times, if you can ask better questions and be interestedmore interested than your competition, you're always going to win and to dothat. You need to be an avid reader, you need to be a learner. Look at booksby Anthony and Arino Jeb blunt Mark Hunter, those kinds of authors who aretalking about relationship based selling and asking great questionsbecause when you uncover opportunities you're always going to have business nomatter how bad the economy is, I'll throw out another one on that front,Marcus Sheraton, they ask you answer, he's been a guest on the podcast. Ifyou ever have you read that one, just put that one on your list. He writes toa general broad audience but it's so practical, so applicable to what'sgoing on here in banking and he's coming back on the podcast and he hasanother book that I think you might find helpful to called The Visual CellWhich is all this point about technology and getting comfortablefeeling uncomfortable because when it comes to the podcast and all the videowork that I do, people like you make it look so easy. I've got about 15, 16years of doing this. I'll be honest. There there there are some tapesliterally physical tapes, high eight tapes that are floating around to whereit wasn't so easy and it was multiple takes and it was a lot of frustrationand a couple of shots of scotch before, before some of these takes. So if, ifanything, it just takes practice and give yourself some patients, giveyourself some grace with this too. Right, Absolutely right. It takes timepractice practice practice. So you know, someone's listening, they want tocontinue the conversation with you. They want to continue to learn from you.Um you've got a lot of great...

...educational resources. What's the bestway for them to connect and say hello Jack. Oh my gosh, well thank you forasking that first. The first thing is connected with me on linkedin andmessage me. Um I have a lot of connections. I have a lot of followersand I and I really love the tool. Um J Hubbard at S M A N D H dot com is theemail and I'm at my desk 847717 4328. Always happy to talk banking and alwayshappy to be a resource for anybody. And jack rants to what's what's what's what,where can people find that? Yeah, we have a private linkedin group calledthe hashtag rant pack where I write things every week about sales. We alsohave a linked in live program that you're going to be on coming up calledJack rants lives. So just message me and I'll get you into all those,there's never a charge for any of that stuff awesome. Learn from Jack, connect,connect with Jack, I mean I'm excited with you. You know, the future is very,very bright. So thank you Jack for joining me up for another episode ofBanking on digital Growth. This has been a lot of fun today. Thank you.James robert is a real privilege. Thank you as always. And until next time bewell. Do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode ofbanking on digital growth. With James robert, ley to get even more practicaland proven insights along with coaching and guidance, visit digital growth dotcom slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and salesleaders from financial brands and fin techs. Until next time be well and dogood. Mhm. Mhm.

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