Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 5 months ago

93) #ExponentialInsights: Digital or Die: Don’t Get Left in the Dust

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you’re a traditional banker worried about the digital age progressing much too fast, you can rest assured that it is.

But it doesn’t matter, because it’s not stopping.

These days, it’s digital or die.

My guest today is Keren Moynihan, CEO & Co-Founder at Boss Insights, who joins me to discuss the rapidly shifting financial landscape and how your brand can best respond.

We discuss:

- Why financial brands need to better support business

- Collaboration is always better than a zero sum game

- Why digital is the only path forward for financial brands

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.
 

...the toothpaste is out of the tube, itis happening too fast and we have to accept that it's happening too fastbecause There are 25,000 business lenders in North America and the peoplewho are traditional are losing market share to the people who are digital. Mm. Mhm. Yeah. You're listening to banking ondigital growth. With James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brandmarketing sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potentialby generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings andhello, I am James robert ley and welcome to the 93rd episode of theBanking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Karen Moynahan tothe show. Karen is the co founder and ceo of boss insights and they are adata platform that digitizes access to business customer information,accelerating all parts of the lending cycle to deepen relationships and growrevenues. Welcome to the show, Karen James robert, ley, Hello, how are you?I'm doing tremendous. It is always good to have a conversation with you and I'mglad we're recording this one because I feel like every conversation that we'vehad, we could have hit record and have created exponential value for the dearlistener. Hey, third time's a charm. We got to do it when we got to do it.Absolutely. And one of the things that I want to open up with that I typicallyalways do is just what is, what is going well for you right now? What isgood in your world? What are you excited about? Either personally orprofessionally? Okay. I guess I'll...

...start professionally because we'retalking about banking on digital growth here. The world has recognized nowthere isn't really any putting toothpaste back in the tube that wehave to have a digital approach to working. There's no like there's no,well maybe I just want to go back to the old manual way. I think we're gonnasee a huge amount of changes and that's really going to benefit the very groupof people that boston sites was launched to help benefit, which issmall and medium businesses and small commercial businesses because it usedto be that whatever you wanted to do, you have to do with paper. And that waseither paper or pdf, which is just electronic paper. It's sent byattachment, but there's nothing you can do with that information. So I'm really,really excited about the fact that there's a general acceptance of thefact that we need to as a banking industry, as a lending industry,support businesses if we're going to have the right to work in this industry.So I think that's the biggest change and with that has come so much chatabout who has the right solutions and who's going to work together and whatnot. So the other thing I'm really grateful for is the incredible amountof collaboration. You know, you think when you're talking about banking thateveryone is an autonomous A I can't even say the word, everyone's a robot.Yeah, but it's not like that. I've spoken to ceos working till two orthree in the morning, Ceos of banks, I've spoken with private lendersfiguring out how to serve businesses now and it's only by collaborating thatwe're getting it done, you're a 100 with that because this idea ofcompetition must fall by the wayside. Because if you think about it from acompetitive mindset, we're looking and playing a zero sum game, there aregoing to be winners and there are going to be losers and we're playing tohopefully not be the loser. And I'm looking at this from, you know,collaboration is far greater than...

...competition in a digital world thatopens up so much more capabilities That weren't available even five years ago,10 years ago. And so now it's, you know, I had Dan Sullivan and you and I havetalked about Dan with strategic coach. He was on the podcast and we weretalking about his book who not how there is a world full of who'savailable for financial brands, like the work that you're doing. So let'stalk about collaboration. Sure. When you think about collaboration, what isone thing that holds people back from leaning into that? Because once again,historically, this has been a competitive space. What holds someonefrom leaning into a collaborative mindset first, I think people are builtto be competitive or collaborative by nature, but there's also a learnedcomponent. So even if you're a competitive person, you can learn overtime, that collaboration will serve everyone better and there's phrases forthis, right? The rising tide helps all ships. There's things that we know areally good example and maybe this is too simplistic, is have you heard aboutthe example of the orange where two people are fighting over an orange? Andthe suggestion is to just cut the orange in half and everybody goes awayhappy. Here's the problem with that. One of the people wanted the orangebecause the inside of the orange to make the juice and the other personwanted the peel because they're making a cheesecake, which by the way, is myfavorite. So if you split that orange in half, everyone walks away half ashappy. That's the problem with a zero sum game. There are true games in lifewhere it's zero sum and most people who are innately collaborative, try andavoid them by nature. But in banking where we are sitting in the middle of ahuge battle for who controls the flow of capital, Nobody can do it all.There's regulatory, there's products, there are data aggregators, there'score providers, there's alternative...

...core providers, banking as a serviceproviders, there's business loans, consumer loans. I'm just grabbing namesout of a nobody can do it all. And so the only group of people who willalways lose if you have a zero sum game is the end customer because theirsolution will not be the best solution. That's a great point. That's a greatpoint. I love the analogy of the orange and you mentioned cheesecake. I'mthinking old fashioned, I need the pill for the old fashioned slice, slicingoff often that but I'm also thinking I'm also looking at this from ananthropological perspective, because if we go back and we look at like, youknow, how cultures and societies were built, it was from a collaborativestandpoint, right? Because it's like if we're competing against the sameresources, we're going to lose something along the way. But when westopped that competition and we start collaborating, were working togethertowards a higher purpose to build something even bigger to buildsomething greater than ourselves. That could that's where like one plus onecan equal three or one plus one can equal 10 because we get a multiplierand technology is a multiple. I've always said technology technology canmultiply complexity technology can multiply simplicity. Technology canmultiply collaboration from this perspective here. I want to come backto this idea around some of the work that you're doing. I saw you recentlyshared a quote from mary kate Loftus on linkedin. She is the senior VP Directorof Digital at M and T Bank and she noted with data opportunities arelimitless. So what are some of the biggest opportunities you see forfinancial brands? Thinking about data? Thinking about the business customers,thinking about business customer growth that end consumer. Because that's whowe are ultimately working to elevate through the work that you know, peoplelike you and me are doing through the work that that bankers are doing. Whatare some of those opportunities thinking about that quote with dataopportunities are limitless, love that...

...quote opportunities are limitless. Andthat's true. We are sitting at a time in our society where opportunities aremore limitless than they've ever been. And sometimes that's a good thing.Sometimes that's a bad thing. Let's look at this in terms of financialservices. Philosophically, we're supposed to be serving the customer.That does not always happen. But that's what's supposed to be happening. Right?That's the name. Financial services. You got to put the service back intofinancial services. Why is it not happening? Is everybody working at abank or a private lender evil? No, they're not. They're all working reallyhard. The problem is that a lot of that work is manual. Now picture a timewhere you're trying to grow crops in the field and you don't have a tractor.Are you going to get as much done? You are absolutely not. I was one of theseloan officers. I was a commercial banker and I was my task. My mandatewas go and get 10% new business growth every single year. So if you had thismany loans on your portfolio last year you need to get this many loans butthey have to follow all of these rules and you have to get all of these thingsdone. And the net result is you spend 80% of your time clearing off your deskto do 20% of 20% of the bandwidth to do your actual mandate. So that M and Tquote opportunities are limitless with data. What we've solved what we'reactually doing is getting rid of all of that manual work and it's not justmanual work for the lender. The businesses suffer too. I was told bythe bank that I was working at that asking businesses for financialstatements and other data was actually an opportunity for me to build arelationship. And the true part of that statement is you have to build arelationship because the business you're working with has to trust you.The false part is it never sounds like anything more than asking a business togo and clean up their room. Yeah. Yeah.

Or when I ask my kids go clean up theirroom or pick up what if it's it's a complaint? It's it's an annoying painand frustration. I'm like you played with the toys, go put them back. Butthere's something like it's work its complexity and it's friction for thebusiness owner. I can be very empathetic to that because like forexample this whole P. P. P. Having to pull all that statements of all thefunny it was not fun. I mean word right? Like but I completely agree with you.11 page forms that are compared to doing your taxes are really too much toput both on the business owner and on the lender. We've never seen the styleof lending before. We have never actually businesses are just trying toget back to business. They're selling their wineries, their restaurants,their accounting firms, their legal practice firms, their truckingcompanies. Do you think really that they ever had the privilege to just sitaround and figure out an 11 page form. So chris Nichols put out there that hehad something in the thirties percentage of the S. B. A. Acceptingthese forms and approving the loans and the S. B. A. Tweeted back. No no noit's 44%. So by the numbers when we automated the gathering of the data andthe completing of the form we had 75% approval. It is a foregone conclusionbut that's not even what I take to the bank I take to the bank. That one ofour customers c. C. Bank told me that their customers said that we savedtheir business. That they recommend CC betting to anyone and already have youknow that Carver Bank said you're allowing us to get capital in the handsof diverse and visible minority business owners. That first savingsbank is saying to us that they're adopting a fintech for strategy. Thisis what I mean by collaboration we could never do what these lenders aredoing. They're building the relationships they are addressing thecustomers. But we can do is take away the pain with your you being up inToronto. I cannot help but think of is...

E. Sharp learn a lot from him justthrough reading founder of The Four Seasons Hotel and he has a quote. Wemust system eyes the predictable so that we may humanize the exceptionaland when you think about the Four Seasons brand experience and how itmakes a person feel this idea of systematize ng the predictable. It'swhat you're talking about right here from the lender because now lendershave more time to humanize the exceptional to build the relationship.And I think that's what it all boils down to in this digital world. You know,we think, oh it's all technology technology, technology, you know, it'sabout using technology to bring people together for good to create value andmake everyone's life that much better. Let me ask from a lending perspectiveand I hear this, I hear this on, on the ground level lenders are like, oh thistechnology, it's hard, it's complicated. It's just going to add confusion to myworld. I'm so used to doing it this way over here and it's like you knowthere's a better way but it's that mindset that holds people back fromreally leaning in. What would be your recommendation to someone who knows itphilosophically that life is going to be better on the other side when youadd automation in. But they think automation ai my job is going to bereplaced. Yeah. And I mean it depends what we're talking about. Are wetalking about the career banker that has a lot of art and you know the artand science to this thing. So you're talking to someone who can recognizecharacter that's one of the five season credit and it really matters. So whoyou're doing the deal with is everything right? So that matters. Andactually we agree with that person that we're not going to change character,you still have to evaluate that what...

...we're doing is taking away the themenial secretarial tasks, which quite frankly should be put to a computer. Itshouldn't be given to a human being. A human being needs to look at theinformation and then make a decision. That's the difference. So if we'retalking to the loan officer or if we're talking to someone really high up at aprivate lending company or at a community bank or at a credit union whofeels like it's just all happening too fast. I actually say to them, I alsoagree with you. But the thing is the toothpaste is out ofthe tube. It is happening too fast and we have to accept that it's happeningtoo fast because There are 25,000 business lenders in North America andthe people who are traditional are losing market share to the people whoare digital and that's just a stated fact. Don't blame the Messenger CBinsights said you were losing market share 1 to 1.5% every year, 2020 hit,you lost 9% market share. So what traditional lenders have over thelatest in fintech lenders is the full service relationship business ownermyself. We need full service relationships. So there's an advantagethere. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the wayconsumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers makepurchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into abranch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits,we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelmingfor any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have tobecause James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the wayalong your digital growth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com toget a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth or order acopy right now for you and your team...

...from amazon inside, you'll find astrategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brandsand it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start usingtoday To confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back tothe show. There is because it's the it's the old adage of fintech being adeath by 1000 cuts. Or or we look at this as a holistic opportunity toprovide exponentially more value across the spectrum to that relationship. Andas you mentioned, things were moving fast. Things sped up even more withCovid. Where should a financial brand start thinking about data two optimizedthe lending cycle to once again come back to the central truth, deepenrelationships and grow revenues. Where should that conversation begininternally? So we're coming full circle here. The service part of financialservice. I'm just going to give an analogy for my own personal experience.I was a banker a decade ago. I'm muffling the word decade because I'm inmy twenties. Clearly everybody Started, you started, you started when you were10. I started, I started really young. I was Dukie Hauser, a reference thatreally dates me properly. So everyone. Um, so, so when I was a banker, I haveto look at my book of business and I would get either every month, everyquarter, I can't remember. I printed out spreadsheet and I would see myentire portfolio and the products they have. And then I have to look up on thebank, on the digital systems, what's going on? And if I found opportunities,I would call them and I'd say, hey, we're noticing that you're not reallygetting paid on time, but everything is looking really healthy with yourbusiness. You want to bump to your operating line of credit. Do you wantsome capital? Why are we using people...

...for that? If we have a real timeconnection to their financial data, which the business consents to give themarketing team can see the entire portfolio and give them a button sayingapply for your upgraded loan. Do you know, that would be so much easier forthe business founder than having to have all the conversations with thebanker. So we have to do a couple things. We have to use the data to ouradvantage. We have to give the appropriate respect to business ownerswho are providing the data and show them what their business looks likefrom a financial services perspective and then we all have to appreciate thatwe are there by virtue of the business itself. Yes that right, there is reallysomething that that I do a lot of teaching around which is to empowerlenders and marketing teams because this is not a single responsibility,this can really create value exponentially throughout theorganization. Marketing sells service but to take a proactive stance in abusiness owner's life vs. A reactive stance, meaning no longer do we have towait for the business owner to come to us to raise the hand and I want to makethis very practical because I just, I wrote down four brand experiences thathave done this for me and are continuously doing this for me. Thereis Quickbooks, obviously Quickbooks is coming and making proactive offers toextend credit to me, there is the Amex relationship and it's literally clickof the button you know I could get I think like 60 or $80,000 like that Imean and it's a simple solution, there's the gusto relationship on thepayroll side in the HR side and then there is the Shopify side of things andso these are all you know MX financial...

...services, you know legacy player. Butwhen you think about Quickbooks, that's accounting, when you think about gustothat's H. R. When you think about Shopify that's E. Com And they're allnow providing value to a business or to a commercial client that was not thecase five or 10 years ago. Right so I noticed you didn't really have anyprivate lenders or community banks or credit unions in that list. And thepunch line of my story is that everyone who is commercial bank, who was doingcommercial banking with me, who are now leading commercial banking teams hasliterally word for word said what you just said. James that we are reactive,not proactive and we cannot figure out how to change this. My question is whynot? You know how long it takes to get a Shopify integration or quickbooks,integration with boston sights and a branded experience. An hour, one hour.We've done all the coding. So I honestly want to ask the question aswell because when Kennedy wanted to get everyone to the moon, he had to speakto the people who said you're never going to do this. And what I need to dois not speak to people who believe without a shadow of a doubt that wehave to figure this out collaboratively, but I want to speak to the people whosay no, this is not going to happen so that I understand what their biggestobjections are. It's really important for us to learn anybody in this spacewho is trying to Shepherd in the future to be now to buy us from sacrifice at2030 digitization is here in 2020. Anyone is trying to do that needs tounderstand why people are opposed to it and how we can protect them, writetheir interests might be valid. For instance, a hugely valid interest isprotecting the right of privacy for the business owner. That's hugely valid. Sowe need to hear that we need to internalize that we need to protect theinterests of people. Absolutely. And...

...and when you think about this idea ofyou can get an integration through boss insights with Quickbooks, with Shopifyin an hour and then be able to pull in that data to a financial brand to wherethat financial brand can come back on the other side and make these proactiveoffers based upon someone's real time financial behavior, financial activity,financial status. I want to dive a little bit deeper into this. And whatare the roadblocks that you're hearing that are holding people back fromcapturing? Coming back to this? Quote from mary kate law Loftus with dataopportunities are limited, limitless. What are the opera? What are theroadblocks that are preventing others from capturing opportunities here? Ithink one of the biggest roadblocks is that the mandates given to financialinstitutions. If we're talking about banks and credit unions now not privatelenders. The mandates are very general in nature. Go digitize. Well, okay,should we digitize the business, the consumer, Should we be talking aboutlending or should we be talking about deposits? There's just, that is a hugeumbrella. So you have this very murky mandate and then it's not like bostonsights is the only Fintech or enterprise tech in the land. It istinder out there. People swipe right or they will swipe left and you have noidea why? And the only thing you can do is say, can you give me any sense ofwhat's going on in your thinking pattern and maybe people will tell youwhere they won't, but looking at it, not from our point of view, but fromtheir point of view, Do you have any idea how many times they're saying Ihave the answer to all of your problems?...

It must sound a little bit like want tobuy a watch, you know, so they're selling rainbows and unicorns and thepot at the end of all of that. What I try so hard to when I'm out theretalking or doing thought leadership or if I have the right to be in front ofany business lender. What I try to talk about is We have two things. A singleconnection to your customers financial data and a portal that's branded toconnect you to them. Do you need those things? And if you get those things,you're going to speed up your lending five times, you're going to cut youremployee costs by 60%. If you have tangible results, then if somebody'sinterested, they can find you. But if you're talking about this generalbetter world to come, how does somebody on the other side translate that totheir mandate? Which is already very general? Well, it sounds like it soundslike to me you're putting people at the center of all of your thinking and allof your doing and technology is just the tool to make all of theseconnections a possibility these connections to reality and as a result,deepen these relationships. To grow two things to grow a a financial brandsportfolio, but also to grow a business or commercial account, like to helpthem out on the other side of that equation. And I'm curious to know whatis one belief that this industry has about data about business clients thatyou just passionately disagree with, where might the majority think X overhere, but you're like, I don't know, I'm really thinking it's gonna be whyover here, what would that be? I would say that there's a divide in theindustry right now between people who believe that they're selling alone andpeople believe that they're offering a best in class predictive experience,and we're on the side of the best in...

...class predictive experience and we'reenabling anyone who doesn't have the capability to build it for themselvesto get access to it this week, right? But if if you believe, I think there'stwo beliefs. One is sort of like a philosophical belief I use like in thewrong way. There should be a like jar here, like my science teacher in highschool. So there is a philosophical belief that I disagree with and thenthere's a business belief that I disagree with. We are not sellingcommoditized products. I could get a checking account and savings accountanywhere. Do you know what I need? I need an easy way to send payments andreceive payments from businesses. I need somebody who understands whatproducts I need. So I don't have to become an expert in banking to operatemy own business. You think that a former banker would know that, butthat's not the case, You don't. And so I believe as a business owner, Ibelieve as a banker that dealt with hundreds of businesses and I believeafter the last bunch of years in this industry selling to lenders that we arenot selling commoditized products that we are financial services and we're ourjob. Our responsibility is to a crew, the best in class tech so that they getthe best in class experience. That's what I live on the business side. Andon the personal side, people are just not expendable. There isn't another one. I I think it took me a while to realizewhy I believe this. I am the third generation. I never thought of it thisway of somebody starting their own business. So when I was growing up Iheard stories about A man moving to Canada at 16 years old and that's whenhe tried his first fruit Every time a business owner, whether it was somebodyasking for $250,000 or $25 million dollars every time a business ownercame to me, I took it with that urgency and I took it with that seriousness andthis is life and death for people right...

...now, this is the life and death oftheir business. We owe it to them to be able to measure them on their ownmetrics of how they're doing in their business rather than external cues.It's that simple. I even want to go deeper with this because as a businessowner, as an entrepreneur who's been doing this, you know, since I was 19,you know, my last real job was waiting tables and playing in a punk rock bandworking at Old Navy. So like there's a lot of psychology tied to this toobecause you know everything that we do as business owners, we put a lot intothe business and now that the pandemic, I'm seeing that psychological toll,like for example, a couple executive peer groups that I'm in, I'm sograteful and so fortunate to add value to this conversation over the last 14,15 months through the book through the podcast, because on the flip side,people in my peer groups are just barely getting by and it's been a toughroad for them. And that's where financial services at a macro level,starting with leadership and then working its way down at a financialbrand, putting the transformation of people over the commoditizedtransaction of dollars and cents and doing that through a best in classexperience that makes people feel good and gives people a sense of hope for abigger, better, brighter future. I think that's what we're all working andstriving towards. This has been a great conversation. I want to end on one lastpoint and let's get really practical here because you know when we look atall of these changes that are happening, it can feel very complex, It can feelvery confusing, it can feel very overwhelming, But all changestransformation. All transformations begin with something small. A step inthe right direction. Let's get really...

...practical. Let's get really small. Whatis that one step, that first step that you would recommend the dear listenertake in the next step forward in that right direction to make progress ontheir own journey from what we've been talking about today, I'm going to giveyou the practical step. At first, I just James, I have to thank you onbehalf of everyone who knows you for. Always connecting the dots wereinvolved in what we're doing. And we're sitting there solving one problem andit's really complex and it's really fast paced and I don't know what wewould do without you to really put it all together for us. So thank you, theone thing the simple thing that a business lender can do is just setyourselves up to offer the business owner another way to share their datawith you. You don't have to change anything. You don't have to change yourlending model. You don't have to do anything. Let them send the informationthe way they've always sent it and give them one bucket one button on yourportal or one button on your website to share information. In an automated way,you don't have to boil the ocean. You can take a single step and you'll seethat there are so many people here who are dying to collaborate with you andall they want to know in return is what did your business customers say? That'sall we're going back. That's the stories, because that's the humanity ofall of this. It's how is what we are doing, transforming the lives ofbusinesses, transforming the lives of business owners, transforming the livesof even their employees. Because we keep going deeper and deeper and deeperinto this rabbit hole. And at the end of the day, people want two things.People want help. People want hope and hope has too often come far beforethey're able to to accept that help. But with what we've been talking about,we can proactively offer both help and hope at the same exact time, Karen, ifanyone is listening, they want to continue this conversation that we havestarted today, what is the best way for them to reach out, follow up, say hello,connect with you. We're on linkedin...

...under boss insights and we're at bostonsites dot com. We are actively growing customers, clients were hiring andwe're in the middle of a seed race. So if anyone wants to reach out, please doexcellent. Please do reach out there and keep up the important andmeaningful work that you and the rest of the team at boss insights continuesto do. And thanks for joining me for another episode of banking on digitalgrowth as always and until next time be well. Do good and make your pen. Thankyou for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with Jamesrobert. Ley. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us areview on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe whileyou're there. To get even more practical improvement insights, visitwww dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts, bestselling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you andyour team from amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and salesblueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidentlygenerate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, Be well anddo good.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (136)