Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

93) #ExponentialInsights: Digital or Die: Don’t Get Left in the Dust

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you’re a traditional banker worried about the digital age progressing much too fast, you can rest assured that it is.

But it doesn’t matter, because it’s not stopping.

These days, it’s digital or die.

My guest today is Keren Moynihan, CEO & Co-Founder at Boss Insights, who joins me to discuss the rapidly shifting financial landscape and how your brand can best respond.

We discuss:

- Why financial brands need to better support business

- Collaboration is always better than a zero sum game

- Why digital is the only path forward for financial brands

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.
 

...the toothpaste is out of the tube, it is happening too fast and we have to accept that it's happening too fast because There are 25,000 business lenders in North America and the people who are traditional are losing market share to the people who are digital. Mm. Mhm. Yeah. You're listening to banking on digital growth. With James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello, I am James robert ley and welcome to the 93rd episode of the Banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Karen Moynahan to the show. Karen is the co founder and ceo of boss insights and they are a data platform that digitizes access to business customer information, accelerating all parts of the lending cycle to deepen relationships and grow revenues. Welcome to the show, Karen James robert, ley, Hello, how are you? I'm doing tremendous. It is always good to have a conversation with you and I'm glad we're recording this one because I feel like every conversation that we've had, we could have hit record and have created exponential value for the dear listener. Hey, third time's a charm. We got to do it when we got to do it. Absolutely. And one of the things that I want to open up with that I typically always do is just what is, what is going well for you right now? What is good in your world? What are you excited about? Either personally or professionally? Okay. I guess I'll...

...start professionally because we're talking about banking on digital growth here. The world has recognized now there isn't really any putting toothpaste back in the tube that we have to have a digital approach to working. There's no like there's no, well maybe I just want to go back to the old manual way. I think we're gonna see a huge amount of changes and that's really going to benefit the very group of people that boston sites was launched to help benefit, which is small and medium businesses and small commercial businesses because it used to be that whatever you wanted to do, you have to do with paper. And that was either paper or pdf, which is just electronic paper. It's sent by attachment, but there's nothing you can do with that information. So I'm really, really excited about the fact that there's a general acceptance of the fact that we need to as a banking industry, as a lending industry, support businesses if we're going to have the right to work in this industry. So I think that's the biggest change and with that has come so much chat about who has the right solutions and who's going to work together and what not. So the other thing I'm really grateful for is the incredible amount of collaboration. You know, you think when you're talking about banking that everyone is an autonomous A I can't even say the word, everyone's a robot. Yeah, but it's not like that. I've spoken to ceos working till two or three in the morning, Ceos of banks, I've spoken with private lenders figuring out how to serve businesses now and it's only by collaborating that we're getting it done, you're a 100 with that because this idea of competition must fall by the wayside. Because if you think about it from a competitive mindset, we're looking and playing a zero sum game, there are going to be winners and there are going to be losers and we're playing to hopefully not be the loser. And I'm looking at this from, you know, collaboration is far greater than...

...competition in a digital world that opens up so much more capabilities That weren't available even five years ago, 10 years ago. And so now it's, you know, I had Dan Sullivan and you and I have talked about Dan with strategic coach. He was on the podcast and we were talking about his book who not how there is a world full of who's available for financial brands, like the work that you're doing. So let's talk about collaboration. Sure. When you think about collaboration, what is one thing that holds people back from leaning into that? Because once again, historically, this has been a competitive space. What holds someone from leaning into a collaborative mindset first, I think people are built to be competitive or collaborative by nature, but there's also a learned component. So even if you're a competitive person, you can learn over time, that collaboration will serve everyone better and there's phrases for this, right? The rising tide helps all ships. There's things that we know a really good example and maybe this is too simplistic, is have you heard about the example of the orange where two people are fighting over an orange? And the suggestion is to just cut the orange in half and everybody goes away happy. Here's the problem with that. One of the people wanted the orange because the inside of the orange to make the juice and the other person wanted the peel because they're making a cheesecake, which by the way, is my favorite. So if you split that orange in half, everyone walks away half as happy. That's the problem with a zero sum game. There are true games in life where it's zero sum and most people who are innately collaborative, try and avoid them by nature. But in banking where we are sitting in the middle of a huge battle for who controls the flow of capital, Nobody can do it all. There's regulatory, there's products, there are data aggregators, there's core providers, there's alternative...

...core providers, banking as a service providers, there's business loans, consumer loans. I'm just grabbing names out of a nobody can do it all. And so the only group of people who will always lose if you have a zero sum game is the end customer because their solution will not be the best solution. That's a great point. That's a great point. I love the analogy of the orange and you mentioned cheesecake. I'm thinking old fashioned, I need the pill for the old fashioned slice, slicing off often that but I'm also thinking I'm also looking at this from an anthropological perspective, because if we go back and we look at like, you know, how cultures and societies were built, it was from a collaborative standpoint, right? Because it's like if we're competing against the same resources, we're going to lose something along the way. But when we stopped that competition and we start collaborating, were working together towards a higher purpose to build something even bigger to build something greater than ourselves. That could that's where like one plus one can equal three or one plus one can equal 10 because we get a multiplier and technology is a multiple. I've always said technology technology can multiply complexity technology can multiply simplicity. Technology can multiply collaboration from this perspective here. I want to come back to this idea around some of the work that you're doing. I saw you recently shared a quote from mary kate Loftus on linkedin. She is the senior VP Director of Digital at M and T Bank and she noted with data opportunities are limitless. So what are some of the biggest opportunities you see for financial brands? Thinking about data? Thinking about the business customers, thinking about business customer growth that end consumer. Because that's who we are ultimately working to elevate through the work that you know, people like you and me are doing through the work that that bankers are doing. What are some of those opportunities thinking about that quote with data opportunities are limitless, love that...

...quote opportunities are limitless. And that's true. We are sitting at a time in our society where opportunities are more limitless than they've ever been. And sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes that's a bad thing. Let's look at this in terms of financial services. Philosophically, we're supposed to be serving the customer. That does not always happen. But that's what's supposed to be happening. Right? That's the name. Financial services. You got to put the service back into financial services. Why is it not happening? Is everybody working at a bank or a private lender evil? No, they're not. They're all working really hard. The problem is that a lot of that work is manual. Now picture a time where you're trying to grow crops in the field and you don't have a tractor. Are you going to get as much done? You are absolutely not. I was one of these loan officers. I was a commercial banker and I was my task. My mandate was go and get 10% new business growth every single year. So if you had this many loans on your portfolio last year you need to get this many loans but they have to follow all of these rules and you have to get all of these things done. And the net result is you spend 80% of your time clearing off your desk to do 20% of 20% of the bandwidth to do your actual mandate. So that M and T quote opportunities are limitless with data. What we've solved what we're actually doing is getting rid of all of that manual work and it's not just manual work for the lender. The businesses suffer too. I was told by the bank that I was working at that asking businesses for financial statements and other data was actually an opportunity for me to build a relationship. And the true part of that statement is you have to build a relationship because the business you're working with has to trust you. The false part is it never sounds like anything more than asking a business to go and clean up their room. Yeah. Yeah.

Or when I ask my kids go clean up their room or pick up what if it's it's a complaint? It's it's an annoying pain and frustration. I'm like you played with the toys, go put them back. But there's something like it's work its complexity and it's friction for the business owner. I can be very empathetic to that because like for example this whole P. P. P. Having to pull all that statements of all the funny it was not fun. I mean word right? Like but I completely agree with you. 11 page forms that are compared to doing your taxes are really too much to put both on the business owner and on the lender. We've never seen the style of lending before. We have never actually businesses are just trying to get back to business. They're selling their wineries, their restaurants, their accounting firms, their legal practice firms, their trucking companies. Do you think really that they ever had the privilege to just sit around and figure out an 11 page form. So chris Nichols put out there that he had something in the thirties percentage of the S. B. A. Accepting these forms and approving the loans and the S. B. A. Tweeted back. No no no it's 44%. So by the numbers when we automated the gathering of the data and the completing of the form we had 75% approval. It is a foregone conclusion but that's not even what I take to the bank I take to the bank. That one of our customers c. C. Bank told me that their customers said that we saved their business. That they recommend CC betting to anyone and already have you know that Carver Bank said you're allowing us to get capital in the hands of diverse and visible minority business owners. That first savings bank is saying to us that they're adopting a fintech for strategy. This is what I mean by collaboration we could never do what these lenders are doing. They're building the relationships they are addressing the customers. But we can do is take away the pain with your you being up in Toronto. I cannot help but think of is...

E. Sharp learn a lot from him just through reading founder of The Four Seasons Hotel and he has a quote. We must system eyes the predictable so that we may humanize the exceptional and when you think about the Four Seasons brand experience and how it makes a person feel this idea of systematize ng the predictable. It's what you're talking about right here from the lender because now lenders have more time to humanize the exceptional to build the relationship. And I think that's what it all boils down to in this digital world. You know, we think, oh it's all technology technology, technology, you know, it's about using technology to bring people together for good to create value and make everyone's life that much better. Let me ask from a lending perspective and I hear this, I hear this on, on the ground level lenders are like, oh this technology, it's hard, it's complicated. It's just going to add confusion to my world. I'm so used to doing it this way over here and it's like you know there's a better way but it's that mindset that holds people back from really leaning in. What would be your recommendation to someone who knows it philosophically that life is going to be better on the other side when you add automation in. But they think automation ai my job is going to be replaced. Yeah. And I mean it depends what we're talking about. Are we talking about the career banker that has a lot of art and you know the art and science to this thing. So you're talking to someone who can recognize character that's one of the five season credit and it really matters. So who you're doing the deal with is everything right? So that matters. And actually we agree with that person that we're not going to change character, you still have to evaluate that what...

...we're doing is taking away the the menial secretarial tasks, which quite frankly should be put to a computer. It shouldn't be given to a human being. A human being needs to look at the information and then make a decision. That's the difference. So if we're talking to the loan officer or if we're talking to someone really high up at a private lending company or at a community bank or at a credit union who feels like it's just all happening too fast. I actually say to them, I also agree with you. But the thing is the toothpaste is out of the tube. It is happening too fast and we have to accept that it's happening too fast because There are 25,000 business lenders in North America and the people who are traditional are losing market share to the people who are digital and that's just a stated fact. Don't blame the Messenger CB insights said you were losing market share 1 to 1.5% every year, 2020 hit, you lost 9% market share. So what traditional lenders have over the latest in fintech lenders is the full service relationship business owner myself. We need full service relationships. So there's an advantage there. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team...

...from amazon inside, you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today To confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. There is because it's the it's the old adage of fintech being a death by 1000 cuts. Or or we look at this as a holistic opportunity to provide exponentially more value across the spectrum to that relationship. And as you mentioned, things were moving fast. Things sped up even more with Covid. Where should a financial brand start thinking about data two optimized the lending cycle to once again come back to the central truth, deepen relationships and grow revenues. Where should that conversation begin internally? So we're coming full circle here. The service part of financial service. I'm just going to give an analogy for my own personal experience. I was a banker a decade ago. I'm muffling the word decade because I'm in my twenties. Clearly everybody Started, you started, you started when you were 10. I started, I started really young. I was Dukie Hauser, a reference that really dates me properly. So everyone. Um, so, so when I was a banker, I have to look at my book of business and I would get either every month, every quarter, I can't remember. I printed out spreadsheet and I would see my entire portfolio and the products they have. And then I have to look up on the bank, on the digital systems, what's going on? And if I found opportunities, I would call them and I'd say, hey, we're noticing that you're not really getting paid on time, but everything is looking really healthy with your business. You want to bump to your operating line of credit. Do you want some capital? Why are we using people...

...for that? If we have a real time connection to their financial data, which the business consents to give the marketing team can see the entire portfolio and give them a button saying apply for your upgraded loan. Do you know, that would be so much easier for the business founder than having to have all the conversations with the banker. So we have to do a couple things. We have to use the data to our advantage. We have to give the appropriate respect to business owners who are providing the data and show them what their business looks like from a financial services perspective and then we all have to appreciate that we are there by virtue of the business itself. Yes that right, there is really something that that I do a lot of teaching around which is to empower lenders and marketing teams because this is not a single responsibility, this can really create value exponentially throughout the organization. Marketing sells service but to take a proactive stance in a business owner's life vs. A reactive stance, meaning no longer do we have to wait for the business owner to come to us to raise the hand and I want to make this very practical because I just, I wrote down four brand experiences that have done this for me and are continuously doing this for me. There is Quickbooks, obviously Quickbooks is coming and making proactive offers to extend credit to me, there is the Amex relationship and it's literally click of the button you know I could get I think like 60 or $80,000 like that I mean and it's a simple solution, there's the gusto relationship on the payroll side in the HR side and then there is the Shopify side of things and so these are all you know MX financial...

...services, you know legacy player. But when you think about Quickbooks, that's accounting, when you think about gusto that's H. R. When you think about Shopify that's E. Com And they're all now providing value to a business or to a commercial client that was not the case five or 10 years ago. Right so I noticed you didn't really have any private lenders or community banks or credit unions in that list. And the punch line of my story is that everyone who is commercial bank, who was doing commercial banking with me, who are now leading commercial banking teams has literally word for word said what you just said. James that we are reactive, not proactive and we cannot figure out how to change this. My question is why not? You know how long it takes to get a Shopify integration or quickbooks, integration with boston sights and a branded experience. An hour, one hour. We've done all the coding. So I honestly want to ask the question as well because when Kennedy wanted to get everyone to the moon, he had to speak to the people who said you're never going to do this. And what I need to do is not speak to people who believe without a shadow of a doubt that we have to figure this out collaboratively, but I want to speak to the people who say no, this is not going to happen so that I understand what their biggest objections are. It's really important for us to learn anybody in this space who is trying to Shepherd in the future to be now to buy us from sacrifice at 2030 digitization is here in 2020. Anyone is trying to do that needs to understand why people are opposed to it and how we can protect them, write their interests might be valid. For instance, a hugely valid interest is protecting the right of privacy for the business owner. That's hugely valid. So we need to hear that we need to internalize that we need to protect the interests of people. Absolutely. And...

...and when you think about this idea of you can get an integration through boss insights with Quickbooks, with Shopify in an hour and then be able to pull in that data to a financial brand to where that financial brand can come back on the other side and make these proactive offers based upon someone's real time financial behavior, financial activity, financial status. I want to dive a little bit deeper into this. And what are the roadblocks that you're hearing that are holding people back from capturing? Coming back to this? Quote from mary kate law Loftus with data opportunities are limited, limitless. What are the opera? What are the roadblocks that are preventing others from capturing opportunities here? I think one of the biggest roadblocks is that the mandates given to financial institutions. If we're talking about banks and credit unions now not private lenders. The mandates are very general in nature. Go digitize. Well, okay, should we digitize the business, the consumer, Should we be talking about lending or should we be talking about deposits? There's just, that is a huge umbrella. So you have this very murky mandate and then it's not like boston sights is the only Fintech or enterprise tech in the land. It is tinder out there. People swipe right or they will swipe left and you have no idea why? And the only thing you can do is say, can you give me any sense of what's going on in your thinking pattern and maybe people will tell you where they won't, but looking at it, not from our point of view, but from their point of view, Do you have any idea how many times they're saying I have the answer to all of your problems?...

It must sound a little bit like want to buy a watch, you know, so they're selling rainbows and unicorns and the pot at the end of all of that. What I try so hard to when I'm out there talking or doing thought leadership or if I have the right to be in front of any business lender. What I try to talk about is We have two things. A single connection to your customers financial data and a portal that's branded to connect you to them. Do you need those things? And if you get those things, you're going to speed up your lending five times, you're going to cut your employee costs by 60%. If you have tangible results, then if somebody's interested, they can find you. But if you're talking about this general better world to come, how does somebody on the other side translate that to their mandate? Which is already very general? Well, it sounds like it sounds like to me you're putting people at the center of all of your thinking and all of your doing and technology is just the tool to make all of these connections a possibility these connections to reality and as a result, deepen these relationships. To grow two things to grow a a financial brands portfolio, but also to grow a business or commercial account, like to help them out on the other side of that equation. And I'm curious to know what is one belief that this industry has about data about business clients that you just passionately disagree with, where might the majority think X over here, but you're like, I don't know, I'm really thinking it's gonna be why over here, what would that be? I would say that there's a divide in the industry right now between people who believe that they're selling alone and people believe that they're offering a best in class predictive experience, and we're on the side of the best in...

...class predictive experience and we're enabling anyone who doesn't have the capability to build it for themselves to get access to it this week, right? But if if you believe, I think there's two beliefs. One is sort of like a philosophical belief I use like in the wrong way. There should be a like jar here, like my science teacher in high school. So there is a philosophical belief that I disagree with and then there's a business belief that I disagree with. We are not selling commoditized products. I could get a checking account and savings account anywhere. Do you know what I need? I need an easy way to send payments and receive payments from businesses. I need somebody who understands what products I need. So I don't have to become an expert in banking to operate my own business. You think that a former banker would know that, but that's not the case, You don't. And so I believe as a business owner, I believe as a banker that dealt with hundreds of businesses and I believe after the last bunch of years in this industry selling to lenders that we are not selling commoditized products that we are financial services and we're our job. Our responsibility is to a crew, the best in class tech so that they get the best in class experience. That's what I live on the business side. And on the personal side, people are just not expendable. There isn't another one. I I think it took me a while to realize why I believe this. I am the third generation. I never thought of it this way of somebody starting their own business. So when I was growing up I heard stories about A man moving to Canada at 16 years old and that's when he tried his first fruit Every time a business owner, whether it was somebody asking for $250,000 or $25 million dollars every time a business owner came to me, I took it with that urgency and I took it with that seriousness and this is life and death for people right...

...now, this is the life and death of their business. We owe it to them to be able to measure them on their own metrics of how they're doing in their business rather than external cues. It's that simple. I even want to go deeper with this because as a business owner, as an entrepreneur who's been doing this, you know, since I was 19, you know, my last real job was waiting tables and playing in a punk rock band working at Old Navy. So like there's a lot of psychology tied to this too because you know everything that we do as business owners, we put a lot into the business and now that the pandemic, I'm seeing that psychological toll, like for example, a couple executive peer groups that I'm in, I'm so grateful and so fortunate to add value to this conversation over the last 14, 15 months through the book through the podcast, because on the flip side, people in my peer groups are just barely getting by and it's been a tough road for them. And that's where financial services at a macro level, starting with leadership and then working its way down at a financial brand, putting the transformation of people over the commoditized transaction of dollars and cents and doing that through a best in class experience that makes people feel good and gives people a sense of hope for a bigger, better, brighter future. I think that's what we're all working and striving towards. This has been a great conversation. I want to end on one last point and let's get really practical here because you know when we look at all of these changes that are happening, it can feel very complex, It can feel very confusing, it can feel very overwhelming, But all changes transformation. All transformations begin with something small. A step in the right direction. Let's get really...

...practical. Let's get really small. What is that one step, that first step that you would recommend the dear listener take in the next step forward in that right direction to make progress on their own journey from what we've been talking about today, I'm going to give you the practical step. At first, I just James, I have to thank you on behalf of everyone who knows you for. Always connecting the dots were involved in what we're doing. And we're sitting there solving one problem and it's really complex and it's really fast paced and I don't know what we would do without you to really put it all together for us. So thank you, the one thing the simple thing that a business lender can do is just set yourselves up to offer the business owner another way to share their data with you. You don't have to change anything. You don't have to change your lending model. You don't have to do anything. Let them send the information the way they've always sent it and give them one bucket one button on your portal or one button on your website to share information. In an automated way, you don't have to boil the ocean. You can take a single step and you'll see that there are so many people here who are dying to collaborate with you and all they want to know in return is what did your business customers say? That's all we're going back. That's the stories, because that's the humanity of all of this. It's how is what we are doing, transforming the lives of businesses, transforming the lives of business owners, transforming the lives of even their employees. Because we keep going deeper and deeper and deeper into this rabbit hole. And at the end of the day, people want two things. People want help. People want hope and hope has too often come far before they're able to to accept that help. But with what we've been talking about, we can proactively offer both help and hope at the same exact time, Karen, if anyone is listening, they want to continue this conversation that we have started today, what is the best way for them to reach out, follow up, say hello, connect with you. We're on linkedin...

...under boss insights and we're at boston sites dot com. We are actively growing customers, clients were hiring and we're in the middle of a seed race. So if anyone wants to reach out, please do excellent. Please do reach out there and keep up the important and meaningful work that you and the rest of the team at boss insights continues to do. And thanks for joining me for another episode of banking on digital growth as always and until next time be well. Do good and make your pen. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there. To get even more practical improvement insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, Be well and do good.

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