Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 3 months ago

120) #DigitalGrowthJourneys: Digital Growth - A Travelogue

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Just like climbing a mountain, taking the first steps on your digital growth journey are often the hardest — you look ahead and all you see is how far you have to go. 

But eventually, you’ll look back and be amazed by how far you’ve come. 

Just ask Deborah Lumpkin , Senior Partner at Centier Bank , where each department has embarked on a digital growth journey together — which has fostered more collaboration and has everyone speaking a common language.

In this episode, we discuss:

Why content is the key to digital growth success

How to structure your teams for digital growth

How to align your teams and have them marching in tandem on a shared digital growth journey

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...content is what is always, I knowinspired us because it shares a narrative, It shares a story, we'rejust having stories with our clients. Mhm mm You're listening to banking on digitalgrowth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe digital growth journeys series where James robert uncovers andexplores some of the industry's biggest digital marketing and sales stories ofsuccess. Let's get into the show greetings and hello I am James robertley and welcome to the 120th episode of the Banking on digital growth podcast.Today's episode is part of the digital growth journey series and I'm excitedto welcome Deborah lumpkin to the show. Deborah is a senior partner at CentierBank, a community bank founded in 1895 that has grown to become Indiana'slargest private family owned and operated bank With 5.8 billion inassets and more than 900 employees at 60 branches across the state. Deborahand her team at sentir are on a journey to maximize their future digital growthpotential. What they focus on humanizing digital experiences throughtheir servant heart culture of caring. It is a truly inspiring story that willtouch on today to continue to educate, empower and inspire you. The dearlistener welcome to the show. Deborah, thank you for having me. You know, Ialways like to start off on a positive conversation? A positive note. What hasbeen going well for you? What is good? What are you excited? What do youenergized about right now, personally, professionally it's your pick. Oh, youknow, I was like personally and professionally, so I'll give you bothpersonally um met with my team last week for their mid year check ins andso many times we think about what we should do, what we need to do, haven'tdone in terms of the rest of the year and going into 2022 I like we all liketo reflect back and really look at the initiatives that we've done, how are wetracking to our business plan, our sales goals and they have accomplishedso much. We forget so many times as leaders to really do a look back andcelebrate those successes and just talk with your teams. It is important tolook back to see where you've come from because as we were talking about beforewe hit record this idea of hiking of mountain climbing, if we're alwayslooking ahead looking up the mountain, it can feel like an impossible climb,but if we get up and we hit a point on our climb, that midway point, let's saynow you can look down the mountains, wow, we've really, we've really comefrom somewhere and it's that looking back that creates a momentum tocontinue for, to build confidence because otherwise you're looking up andyou see the clouds, you don't even see the top of the mountain, like can we dothis and by looking down looking behind it, it proves that point that progressis really greater than perfection. Yes, yes, it really is. And we were talkingabout hiking and everything before we recorded and that is true. There'salways that next peak, there's always that next mountain and you know, justmaking sure that everyone is doing it together and they know what mountainwe're climbing and they'll also be too, I think it's important to call out,there will always be some valleys. Death Golden wrote a fantastic book onthe subject, very easy read called the dip and it's when as we go through life,it's what we do in the dip that matters...

...most because either we will pushthrough the dip and come up on the other side or we will exit the dip andthen go find something else and I think it's exiting is not a bad thing per sebecause sometimes we push through, we put all our might and all our momentuminto it and then realize why did we do that? What was the point? So, and youmentioned, you mentioned personally you've got some really good thingsgoing on as well. Yeah. Over the weekend, I wrote 55 miles with myfather And what's interesting about that is he's 80 and uh, this 55 milecycle ride filled in comparison to his coast to coast journey that he did whenhe was older than I am. And so he's always been a marathon runner andreally an inspiration to me. And so I have a lot of inspiration between myteam and then personally with my father over the weekend, you know, inspirationI think is something that it's a big reason that I enjoy doing this podcastand more so even having conversations about those that have been on a digitalgrowth journey because we get emails and phone calls from other, they mightbe on a marketing team, they might be, they might even be on a leadership team,but they feel like they're that that lone voice who sees something out thereand we're going to talk about the journey that you've been on here. Butbefore we get into that, I'm curious to know how we came to this point, Whybanking, why marketing for that matter? And you mentioned your father being aninspiration. But what is this idea of bank marketing that inspires you, yourpersonal purpose? What gets you up in the morning every day to do what you'redoing at sentir? Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And I think for a lotof leaders, it's our team and the gifts and the talents that we have that webring to our team and to one another. What's interesting is uh as I thinkabout it five years ago it was right before I joined, sent here. And uh Igave myself five words that I wanted to lead by over the next five years. Justfive simple words and what I didn't realize about these five words thatthey were somewhat of my personal purpose statement and the words werecreate connect cherish love and inspire and I've used these words to guide meboth personally and professionally, especially as a mentor that sentir anduh in my personal life as well I think that's so important and it's a verypractical takeaway for the dear listener. What are five words thatpersonally guide your own path? Take some time to reflect on what thesewords could be, write them down, put them on your mirror so that you seethem every day when you wake up and have to confront yourself and and lookat yourself in the I put them in your office so that their guides. So whenthings do when you do get into that dip you can come back and refer to thesewords that in this particular case they they're bigger than just yourself andthey're away too. Help others see as well why it is you do what you do as aleader. And on that point I want to redo some reflection. Let's go backinto your mind. You mentioned five years, let's just take it the horizonmaybe three years at this point when you think about marketing when youthink about cells even because it's at this point in my mind it's hard todisconnect the two, but it hasn't always been that way, particularly inthe banking space. What did marketing and cells look like for you? Going backsay three years? That's a great...

...question. In my role at sentir, Ihandle both retail sales as well as marketing teams and property management.All and very, very important brand touchpoints. And so just looking backthree years, we already have the alignment with retail sales andmarketing just by the nature of how are my Trogir ceo structured the departmentand my team. But three years ago we've really evolved quite a bit as amarketing team. Now we are more, I guess that have been agency type ofstructure where we have lines of business support or account executivesthat work with each of our line of business partners. And then we havebuilt a team around content, video, digital optimization and then reallysupported the team with continuing education and certifications,particularly on the digital front. So we really have a nice mix of peoplethat have been here a while and a lot of onboarding over the last three yearswithin our team. I think this is it's an important point because it's onethat I have conversations with other marketing team specifically atfinancial brands. You mentioned building it out more like an agency andI talk about the in house agency, the in house media team even more. So nowwhat did that transformation look like, you know, to bring that to fruitionbecause it hasn't always been that way and you've been, you've got a lot ofhistory just in the banking vertical. But what was that transition like tobring in all of this different talent, this different capability. You know,I'm going to lean on dan Sullivan here a little bit to bring in the who's sothat we don't necessarily have to worry about the house anymore. We bring thecapability internally. Yeah, there's really no right or wrong way withstructure. You really need to look at your team where the talent is and theother financial institutions that I've worked for. We had hired out by agencywork and I've also been in organizations that we have a wholecreative team and in house agency creative team. So when I joined thebank, we had all the players, but there was just an alignment. And so we havetwo officers that handle mortgage, retail wealth management and then we doa lot of things internally within the bank with events and culture andeverything that we have here and the marketing team supports them as well.So they are our clients to and so that's just how we've um, I'm familiarwith it and of course we built it out particularly around a lot more contentthan we had in the past as well. Yes, content and I think that's where youhave a unique ability and a unique skill set that you personally havebrought into this dialogue into this conversation. We've had multipleconversations on the podcast around content. Content being the fuel of thedigital growth engine. We've had Pulitzer E I know you're readingcontent inc second edition, we've had a lot of other good discussions, whatexcites you most about this idea of of content as a primary communication tool,both internally as well as externally out of financial brand, because contentonce again hasn't always been the case in the banking space. No, it reallyhasn't. You know, my background is in journalism and the Marketing Directoralso has a background in journalism and content is what is always I knowinspired us because it shares a narrative, it shares a story, we'rejust having stories with our clients and so that's what I'm really excitedis about building out more content to make our bankers celebrities, they arecelebrities in our eyes of really creating all of these differentchannels for them to have that voice.

And of course we're far from that rightnow, but we're doing small winds and small things to make that happen alongthe way. And a lot of it is the team that we've created within the marketingdepartment, but also that in our community relations group, they'redoing some great things in the communities that we have and obviouslywith the social content is very robust here as well and and reviews andeverything else that we track too. You talk about giving bankers a voice and Ithink that is a great way to align marketing and cells together. That hasalmost nothing to do with necessarily lead generation, but more of, we'lljust call it positioning within a marketplace because now you'repositioning around expertise around thought leadership around knowledge andthat would then translate into increased leads and lead gin and lead,nurturing that marketing and cells can then work further on. You touched onthis before about culture and I'm curious to know when you think aboutjust your digital growth of journey that you've taken, what role hasculture played to impact the progress here? Once again, progress beinggreater than perfection and and how has buy in an alignment been a part of thisprocess as a whole for you? Yeah, that's a great question. The culturehere at sentir is unlike anything that I've experienced with other financialinstitutions I've been with, you know, we're 100 and 25 126 years in themaking and culture was always at the heart and the core of what we did andreally is who we are. We lead by a servant heart leadership, a servantheart, culture and it is at every touch point in the organization. We haveofficer calls every Tuesday. In fact we had one this morning every Tuesday andwe're celebrating all of our successes, sharing personal stories, but alsowhat's coming up over the next week and our senior leaders along with our ceowho kicks it off every Tuesday at 80 clock central time shares what is goingon, you know in the coming months things that he wants to share with thegroup and then he tosses the mic to each one of us to share up our updatesis where as well. And that has created this culture that we have here one ofmany, many ways that we've done that and I can't help but think of the thelate Tony shea who was the founder and what was it the founder buddy came intoto help grow Zappos. They were struggling and it was culture thattransformed a struggling e commerce shoe retailer to become a billiondollar acquisition from amazon and there's a fantastic book that Irecommend to the Dear Leader's is it's delivering happiness. Maybe you've readit, maybe you have it and if you've read it I'm willing to bet it'sprobably been some time go pull it off the bookshelf dust it off because to meit's going to be culture as key to future digital growth because as Iwrote about previously D. X. Plus Hx equals growth. That digital experienceplus the human experience. But coming out of the covid experience I realizedhow important e ex employee experience is going to play in all of this becauseinternal teams feel a little confused. They feel a little frustrated witheverything that has transpired and rightfully so I don't think it's gonnaget any easier per se. I think this is a preview of what's to come at a both amacro level that didn't translate down into a micro level. How do you as aleader handle and manage all of the changes that we've experiencedexponentially. Um when you think about marketing and you think about justdigital, what have you done personally...

...just to make sure that you aren'tgetting pulled under the sea of chaos if you will. That's a great question. Ireally think it's what we were talking about before within our culture andfeedback from our associates Associates first and particularly during Covid wedid a lot of that and then we also listen to our clients and then sharingthis information so we can respond quickly and so many times for us asleaders were making decisions and leading our teams and were the farthestpeople away from the client and last year what we did is we moved ourcustomer surveying to another provider and that has given us so much feedbackfrom our clients and such good ideas and really the ability to prioritizethe things when we started to see trends in it. And I can tell you ourCeo read every single comment because I know my team is responsible for everysingle follow up and so there's a tremendous amount of accountabilitythat comes with it and that is also a glimpse of the culture when you have aCeo involved in something like that, really listening to the voice of theclient first. I want to give another perspective to the dear listener. Thisis something that Marcus Sheraton who's been a guest for the podcast and he'sgonna come back on to talk about his new book called the Visual sell.Hopefully very soon we're trying to get that coordinate and schedule. But heposted something on linked in yesterday actually and he said food for thought.I was chatting with the Ceo of a large public facing company recently and hesaid something that made me really think and I'm quoting Marcus hereincluding the Ceo of what he shared, he said, I have it set up that everyemphasize social media notification we received comes to me the Ceo if it'sgood, I want to see it first. If it's bad, I want to see it first. The bottomline in this era of social media, I cannot allow myself or my team to beignorant of what the marketplace is saying, we need to know. And thenMarcus asked scalable, maybe not effective, stunningly so definitely andI think the voice of the customer is, we can be in tune with that in waysthat we were never able to be, let's just say even five years ago, 10 yearsago and it's when we put people the customer at the center of all of ourthinking and doing, we see massive transformation but then when you couplethat of putting the the team member at the center of all of our thinking anddoing an alignment with the customer, wow that really is an opportunity formassive growth, massive transformative growth for that matter right therereally, where the magic happens right when you can align all of that togetherin your team's. Yes, technology has transformed our world and digital haschanged the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Nowconsumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if theywalk into a branch at all but your financial brand still wants to growloans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustratingand overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader butit doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you everystep of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digitalgrowth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon insideyou'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transformfinancial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights, Youcan start using today To confidently...

...generate 10 times more loans anddeposits. Now back to the show, I'm curious to know, it's been about a yearsince you had reached out to me, you had read banking on digital growth,your team mike and red banking on digital growth. What inspired you tothink about moving forward on this journey? You had already done a lot ofreally good work as we've shared up to this point. Getting the team optimizedfrom a marketing standpoint, getting some alignment between marketing andcells. But what was that inspiration to to start down this journey of digitalgrowth in the first place? We had already been a lot of the things thatwe're doing even today, we're already in flight. And what happened was, and Ilove telling the story is one of our board members gave banking on digitalgrowth to mike and said read this, I think you're going to like it. Then. Idistinctively remember mike using the word after he had read this book. Hewanted to know if I had Rised no, not familiar with it and he said, I'minspired. That is not a word that I've heard. Mike say often. And so we gotour team together and how do we go about doing this? And I don't know howother F. I. S do it. But we involved 36 people. Mike is leading our ceo talksabout mike driving the bus, right? He's at the front and it starts with mikeand then all line of business Senior VP partners, the entire marketingdepartment compliance risk and really everyone in the organization retail opspeople all of the senior partners as well. And we're going through thecurriculum and the courses and the work and then their favorite time is ourmonthly meetings where they go into the round tables and lead the discussionbased on what they learned. And I can tell you from the feedback, thiscreates a very collaborative environment and we never had that forumbefore. And aside from banking on digital growth and D. G. I Institute,it really created that portal for people to get to know each other andcollaborate and having everyone a part of this at the same time creates acommon language that I believe really ignite and accelerates the digitalgrowth process because it's not starting with one department and thenthey see the opportunities ahead of them that are revealed and then theyget another department involved or another line of business involved,You're just wasting time, my opinion. Uh, you know the way that we have doneit and rolled it out and of course we're, you know, eight months into ithas really been inspiring to a lot of people. I think a couple of things justfor context for the dear listener here, it's the acceleration that you've beenable to achieve because Historically and we've had conversations about thisjust within our own coaching calls. I would say 80, 85% because there's that,that parade of principle that always comes into play 80, typically beginwith say the marketing team And it could be 10, it could be 15, it couldbe 20, but then they have to go out and bring in others and I'm like we shouldhave brought them in to begin well, we didn't have that buying, we didn't havethat alignment out of the gate. And so I even I even told a story in the bookabout doing this with the marketing team and they got an 8-9 months in kindof where you're at now and at that point I'm like literally flying out todo a board session with their board and their executive team and they didn'thave to start over, but it was definitely a bump in the road becausethere was well why are we doing this?...

And I think that's that, it's thatSimon cynic right? Like start with why don't worry about the what? Don't worryabout the how, because when you think about digital transformation, 60 to 85%of all transformation initiatives fail, not because of technology, but becauseof the human element, because we lead the conversation, this is what we'regonna do and this is how we're going to do it. Well, like I got my four kids inthe back of my head saying why dad, like why? And it can be annoying likeas a parent and a parent is a leader and sometimes you got to really catchyourself well, because I said so, but when you step outside and you take thatdeep breath in and you really want to explain, and I'm thinking about my kidshere, okay, I want to say it's because I'm the parent and I'm just say so, butwhenever I sit down, I get down on the knee and I look at them in the eye andexplain, you see something happened, like you literally get their buy in atthat moment, because there are now a part of that process of whatever it is,they're a part of that journey that we're taking together and that's a bigtransformation that I see has to happen at a macro level within the industry,because it's still, there's so much what we're doing this because that'swhat we have to do to survive. And I'm like, well, if you do that, becauseit's what you have to do to survive, you're probably not going to thrive alla part of the journey together. And as you know, our senior team, we are agroup of quick starts and so we've had to learn a lot of patients along theway. Things just don't happen overnight and it is a process, this is a journey,but what we're uncovering along the way is really exciting and so it's just apart of the journey for all of us. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm curious, youknow, reflecting on this eight months if the biggest win that you'veexperienced along the way, you've articulated a few of them already. Butwhere do you feel like the biggest success if you will has come into play?Is it the sense of what we would call community being built? Is itconnections? Is it collaborations? How would you articulate the biggest winfrom this experience so far? You know, we I talked earlier about common themes,the common language, language, so we're all saying the same things and you hearthis common thread. So I think that's really important. The shifting ofmindset I've had so many people say that they literally pause and meetingsgoing, why have we done it this way? Like why? You know, and then thecollaboration. And so to me, if there was one thing, it's probably thecollaboration and I mean from my car ceo all the way, you know, within thatsenior group that's going through the university and identifying theseopportunities along the way. And so now we're just at a point where we're doingsome exciting things. One of the things that we're doing now is we are going tobe launching in september Digital Banking Center that is completelydedicated to cultivating onboarding and identifying the online leads that weget from our online account opening process and we've made leaps and bounds,but now we have a dedicated team to make sure we don't have what I fondlycalled lead leak and that's just 11 of many things that we've done where youidentify all the different channels and you start really looking into theonline forms that are created on your website. Even our client surveysgenerate on our generate additional...

...seals leads for us. And so just takingeach one of those prioritizing them and take them through the journey. Yes. AndI can recall like when we first connected, that was one of the thingsthat we did at a very high level exploratory Well let's just see, let'sjust see how this is going right now. And I said very kindly like this is notto get anyone in trouble. This was you just simply don't know what you don'tknow. And so let's explore this and we'll use your word the lead leaks ifyou will and figure out a way to start to bridge that gap. But that's notsomething that marketing can do on its own. You have to align yourself andyou've got multiple teams that are involved in this initiative now, whichto me, you start here because it's so easy to say, oh, we need to go to thetop of the funnel, we need to drive more traffic and more awareness. But ifwe do that, we're just adding more complexity towards the boss. Absolutely.And it does involve everyone. It's marketing, its retail sales ops, it'sthe tech solutions team to make sure that the data that we're capturing andagain we've got a ways to go. But part of it is awareness and collaboration,all of the things that we're doing right now, you think back over theseeight months so far in a lot of training, a lot of education throughthe university, a lot of roundtable facilitated discussions. If you go backin your mind because you've you've had experience and you've got a lot ofknowledge already be biggest key insight for you, our biggest and Ithink you mentioned this before, biggest mindset transformation as well.What has that been for you personally mindset? You know, something that Ithink surprised a lot of people are some feedback that we got. I'm justgoing to talk on behalf of the group is we kept on hearing things that digitalis cold, digital is impersonal and we heard that early on from a lot ofpeople because our culture was built on personal relationships and service andremarkable service. Service wasn't great. It had to be remarkable service.And one of the things that it was actually R. C. I. O. That identifiedand I thought it was great coming from him is how do we create digital smiles?It makes digital feel more human. And so when you start thinking of digitalsmiles, you can have a lot of fun with it and it is content. It's the way thevisuals look, it's how we respond on the phone when you don't have someonein front of you. And one thing that Covid taught us is how to be nimble andhow do you do that? And so we've created a lot of ways that and we'restill developing different ways to create those digital smiles along theway. And so, and I just love that expression because it makes you smile,it makes you picture your favorite emoji. And so really it softened theidea of digital and that we can make it feel more human. I can't help but thinkto connect some dots to before Tony shea and Zappos and deliveringhappiness. And there's a video of him giving a presentation or a lecture andit was about this idea of service and they would do whatever it took atZappos to make someone feel happy about their experience. And a lot of it wasif you think about it, Zappos leading the way of selling a commoditizedproduct shoes to win before, if you wanted to buy shoes, you'd go in person,try them on. So you can say that there free delivery both ways was a bit of aindustry transformation. They kind of...

...started that like tom started the wholebuy one, get one. But what what made Zappos, Zappos was the people, it wasthe conversations whether that was over the phone or a lot of times justthrough some type of chat messenger and it wasn't a robot, it wasn't a chat,but it was flesh and blood on the other side. And if they couldn't find whatyou're looking for, they took it upon themselves to go to another digitalretailer sometimes. And I had this experience person like they ended upgetting referred over to Nordstrom's for a shoe that we were looking for andbought through Nordstrom's. But where do we go to buy our shoes now for ourkids? Exactly. Zappos And it's really about that client experience and itsvery core. And I've heard interviews with him as well. It wasn't necessarilyabout shoes, it was about service and that was his, his background. And ifyou think about that, how bold and a lot of the courage would take to tellyour team to refer a client or customer to a quote unquote competitor to makethat purchase. That's very different than what we hear a lot about today.But in my mind, I think competition, the idea of competition, it has to beput away because if you're competing, you're competing for what scarceresources. Therefore you're in a scarcity mindset to where if you'rereally taking a collaborative approach, there's an opportunity for massabundance, the world's huge and I think if we look at all the opportunityavailable, we'll never going to have to be able to capture it all. Nor shouldwe want to, I think, I think it's where we can identify some specific nichemarkets that align with our purpose that give us the ability to be the bestfor that niche market to create the best experience, to be the mostknowledgeable to provide the most help and then as a result create the most inthe greatest value to me. That's what the future of of banking looks like.What about you and your mind, if you could Project Out 5, 10 years, what'sthe future of banking look like for you in your own Mind? Gosh, that's so hardto predict, particularly a year to even five years. I think what we're doingtoday is really making sure that the culture that we have developed 126years goes across all channels and all platforms to be remarkable andeverything that we do and being in a family owned bank. You know, you seethe dedication with the next generation taking it to the next level and I thinkthat's a part of it. Technology is going to play a huge role and we havecertainly invested in technology. We have had some very important key hireslately to really propel us align us around the client experience and Ithink that's the key is technology is not a replacement for the humanexperience. It's an upgrade. It's an augmentation And technology is just atool. It's just a tool that connects people together like this podcast, theability for for your voice, for your ideas, for your knowledge, for yourexperience to reach over 120 countries, it wouldn't be possible if it wasn'tfor technology and so therefore it's a multiplier, even value creation atscale. Deborah, this has been a...

...fantastic conversation, a fantasticdiscussion. I've enjoyed it as well as we wrap up. I want to get really,really practical here at the end, play a game of start and stop for the dearlistener. If there's one thing as they continue to move forward and makeprogress along their own digital growth journey, what is one thing that youwould recommend they start doing something small? Because I think allgrowth, all progress begins with a very small, simple step. But what's onething that you could recommend that they could start doing going forward? Italked about this earlier because it was a ha moment and it goes back tolead leak, just identify all of the different channels. That's a startingpoint is awareness. It's so much more than that. But if there was one thingthat I look forward to, the meetings that we have on friday every weekbecause we're talking about these things and it is a ha moment and itcompletely creates awareness where particularly with the marketinginvestment, every lead is precious and we cannot lose sight of these leads anda lot of it's just alignment to process and making sure we're taking care ofthem, even if it's a personal phone call or a chat, that would be the onething, Yes, absolutely. Starting there, it's always always great to start toidentify, gain the awareness of what you're losing to begin in the firstplace. Because if we add more to the process to the plate, if you will, thenit's just gonna be an exercise in complexity with which leads tofrustration and then that leads to lack of buying. And then they're foregoesthe repeated cycle of what we've seen. The predictable pattern time and timeagain. When we add something to the plate. When we start doing something,it's always important just stop doing something as well to create that spaceto create that time. What would be one thing that you would recommend the dearlistener to stop doing that could actually help them make progress maybehelp them break free from something that might be holding them back. Thatthey might not be once again aware of standing still mm not moving becauseyou don't know what to do. And I think a lot of F. I. S. Are there becausethey don't know what to do, where do I put my investment? There is so muchinformation just like our clients, there's so much information that youcan find is how to start small and build from there. And particularlythere's struggles with data technology, there's huge investments to make. ButStanding still is is not a strategy. No. And I think a lot of that is rooted infear whether or not someone wants to admit it, the more that we can have theopen, honest conversations about that as individuals, even as teams and thenat the organization level, there's no harm, there's no harm in that. I thinkall, all growth, all transformation that leads to growth. It does begin bytelling the truth and if that truth is, I'm really not sure what we should donext. That's okay. That's where training, that's where education beginsthat process for growth in making training education a key part of theexperience going forward because the world will continue to change at a morerapid rate. If someone is listening, they've learned from you, but they alsojust want to connect with you to say hello, what is the best way for them todo. So Deborah, what's the best way for them to reach out to ways they canemail me at D lumpkin, L U M P K I N at sentir dot com or always reach out tome on linkedin, make the connection there if they want to learn anythingmore about what I shared today or just to connect, you know, you're alwaysmaking introductions of people and I'm always connecting with them on linkedin.I think that's a great source or any No,...

...absolutely. And I do, I do enjoyconnecting people together because that is how we all will grow. We cannot dothis and individually we can't do this alone, we can't do this even as a, as afinancial brand, floating as an island out in the sea of chaos, We have tocontinue to connect, we have to continue to collaborate because arising tide does in fact raise all ships together. Deborah, thank you somuch for joining me on another episode and this has been a lot of fun asalways be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley, like what youhear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts,google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to geteven more practical improvement insights visit www dot digital growthdot com to grab a preview of James roberts, best selling book banking ondigital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazoninside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus That empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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