Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

142) #ExponentialInsights: Data Takes Marketing from Cost Center to Revenue Center

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Imagine a football game where every stat is measured flawlessly… except for the ones that tell you the score.

How do you tell if your team won?

Most marketing teams don’t need to imagine it — they’re playing it.

And nobody knows if they’re winning.

That’s why Kevin MacNeil, Vice President Accounts at Metric Marketing, is adamant that the first step every financial brand should take to turn their marketing teams from cost to revenue center is getting better data.

In this episode, we discuss:

- The importance of data-driven marketing decisions

- The third-party integrations ruining your data

- Why nearly every financial brand’s website is terrible

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...if the data is wrong and it probably is, we're not going to get this conversation off the ground if you don't trust the day, you'll never make decisions on it. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello, I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 142nd episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Kevin McNeil to the show. Kevin is the vice president of accounts that metric marketing who is focused on data driven, big ideas that deliver results for financial brands. Welcome to the show, kevin, so glad to be here. Thank you for having me before we get into this conversation today focused around data data driven growth. I always like to start things off on a positive note. What's good for you man. What's good personally, What's good professionally? It is always your pick to begin. I thank you for asking me personally. I'm a blessed man. I got I got two little ones to keep me really busy at home. I got my little boy just turned three, my little girl turned 1.5 in the same weekend, We did not plan that, by the way, I don't think anybody plans that we didn't plan that. I will tell you, we have an april 18th to May 7th to May 18th, you guys three Birthdays, three birthdays in literally a one month span And then we got this outlier or August 25, which is, he's my buddy because I'm in August 31 birthday, so But yeah man, congratulations. So three and one and a half-18 months apart, it sounds like we're right there with you because ours are about anywhere between 18 months to 24 months apart. Our oldest is now 11 and I'm like you're not a little boy anymore, it's beautiful to see his growth and independence and so enjoy it buddy, enjoy it. I do yeah, I remind myself of that every day it's on the personal side of things, you know, I think not everybody has to have kids, but for those of us lucky enough to have kids and it fit their lives and what have you been bringing a kind of happiness you can't find anywhere else. And he asked about, you know, the professional side of things, obviously everybody's been through a crazy 19 months or whatever at now on this covid clock and there's opportunity about, you know, you definitely try to go into different professional situations, still having empathy for people and trying to understand what the last 19 months have been like for them in their lives, but as far as, you know, the online space where we play with the most in the industries that we focus on, there's opportunity about I really like that perspective because, you know, you mentioned the Covid Clock, I'm gonna have to borrow that from you. I call it the Covid experience because it's something that we're all journeying through together and keeping a positive mindset, keeping focus on the opportunities, not getting stuck in the here and now. We just hosted an orientation for the banking on Digital Growth program. Had a, you know, a bunch of leaders from, from around the country come in and, and actually it looks like we, I think we had someone from overseas to out of europe joining today and we're working through an exercise, simple exercise what's going well, what's been going well? And it's an acronym is probably our most popular thinking exercise that and this is gonna be in the next book Making on Change. Because I'm looking at Covid and just talked about this with Brett King and episode 1 40 Covid's been a...

...preview, Covid is a preview of really all the exponential changes we're going to experience. So if you can focus on what's been going well, where have you been winning? What are you excited about? What have you learned? And then what are you looking ahead to towards in the future? You're literally getting you're taking a journey in your own mind through the past, the present and then looking into the future, but it's all through the positive lens. The mind can only hold a positive are negative thought emotion at a time. And the more that we can train our minds program our minds to focus on the positive, the more that I think growth will be a natural result from that experience as a whole. Yeah, I agree with a lot of we said there, I'm blanking on who it was a very famous speaker was talking about the one thing that we've been through with Covid is change. It's accelerated and pushed change at a rate that, you know, we haven't seen since other major points in human evolution and the change brings opportunity. And so you talk about, you know, thinking about positive, I think about opportunity all the time and I definitely think we're in a time of opportunity. Yeah. And you know, I can't help but think of Ryan Holiday in his book, The obstacle is the way the subtitle of that is the timeless art of turning trials into triumph. And Ryan writes from the perspective of the ancient stoics and he's applying that to some modern day thinking so really the obstacle is the way and and let's look at the way, what are the ways forward when it comes to utilizing data as a, as a path forward for growth data is a big part of the focus of the work that you're doing at metric marketing and, and, and from your perspective, you've mentioned opportunities. So let's stay on that track. What are the opportunities for financial brands when it comes to using data as a path for growth? Yeah. Everything we do is rooted in data and everything. You know, I'm going to talk about when I talk about opportunities, going to come back to data. Like I always feel like when I'm talking in the financial sector, I've gotta start at a place where this conversation starts at everyone is on the internet, especially in today's day and age. If there's anybody listening to this that is still whole humming about what percentages of their membership or their customers are avid internet, not just users, but they make decisions on the internet, they buy on the internet, their lives are on the internet. It's facts now. But one thing Kobe did as it pushed the last 25, of people who still wanted to do things, quote unquote the old way. It pushed them into working through what we call their customer journey and it's happening more and more online. So the opportunities in the data lie within people being online, our customers or potential customers being online, we have more opportunity to understand their behaviors to understand how to reach them, what's working and what's not in reaching them. And most importantly, I think we'll get to a lot of, in our conversation today. We put the right pieces in place will understand if we're getting our potential consumers and our current customers to do what we want them to do. If we're providing the things that they need to fulfill that customer journey, do their research, get to a place of comfort to consideration and then do what we want them to do. That's a great point. You may get them to a place of comfort guide them on this journey beyond. Some stresses some concerns, some questions, some pain points that are really bothering them because the antithesis of confusion and chaos let's call that that's where they're at today. They're really looking for clarity because an increase in clarity will lead to a commitment which digitally speaking is clicking the apply button to open an account, apply for a loan. You know, one of the things when it comes to data, you're talking about...

...behaviors and before we hit record we're talking about like just take the U. S. For example, us. You know, we could say there's there's 456 different quote unquote subcultures regionally speaking in the U. S. You've experienced that as a Canadian. You know working within the United States and that has been an eye opening experience coming from the outside in talk about that experience and how data does help with that and really goes beyond I think where a lot of us can get it wrong. We make some assumptions and those assumptions can be killer when it comes to marketing. And so data takes the emotion out of it, data helps to look at things objectively and quantifiable. E and so you're you're literally looking at this from an entirely different lens and this isn't just true for the United States. I just did a podcast on uh some of the things that are going on in latin America right now, once again kind of you know, some some similarities. But then there's still some subcultures that are different from point A to point B. What are your thoughts? I don't want to sound like the guy who's trying to take the human being out of it because it's not the case. You know when we're marketing potential customers, our current customers, we have to have empathy and put ourselves in the shoes of the human being is making decision. But data gives us the answers. It takes away the guessing games. I remember graduating actually being in business school, taking my marketing major and never thinking that I was going to go into marketing and advertising because I didn't think it was quantifiable enough. Like I knew that's how my brain worked. I'd already been in sales. I knew sales is going to be part of my life and I love the quantifiable nature of argue doing a good job in sales right? And at the time didn't think marketing was 15 weeks, it wasn't quantifiable enough. And then when I started getting into analytics and learning how to make decisions based on the data, you know, I found my fit there and in our company's we'll find our answers in that data. It doesn't have to be a guessing game whether or not one of the big questions I get people all the time is my website doing its job. You know, is my website good or bad. This is not an opinion based decision anymore. There's a number to it. So many things that we do in marketing online about driving a particular audience to us online to our place where we get them to do what we want to do to convert. That's our website. Your websites job is measured in a conversion percentage. Everything else is getting them there once they're they're your websites job is to get them to do what you want them to do, convert. So is your website good or bad? The answers in the data and it's a question we still get all the time and by the way some of you are listening to this for sure your website is bad. It's not bad because you know you might have some brand issues or what have you. But what we experience when we get to know a company as we get into their analytics and we start trying to find opportunity and get over challenges and websites are performing poorly all over north America right now because of a lack of good data. We actually don't know that conversion percentage. That's a great point to make. And one of the ways that we've diagnosed this here at the Digital Growth Institute is specifically through the lens of financial services is that the vast majority, I would say 85%. I mean it really is the parade of principle applied 80 85% are nothing more than glorified online brochures. Even in, you know, this, you know, post covid world that we're all navigating through together And there's no one, I would say two point fault that it is what it is and if we can accept that and look at it like from an anthropological lens. It's because these websites historically were built by literally taking a brochure out of the branch in 1999 to build the very first website back then for a lot of these community institutions specifically. And it's...

...been kind of that same thinking pattern of the physical world if you will has driven the digital world. You see that with online applications, once again taking a paper application making a loan application, a digital loan application out of that and it doesn't translate. There's there's a lot of complexity in the physical world that then gets amplified because of technology because of digital applications are a great example of that. So one of the ways that you can quantify this is with google analytics and this is this is another pain point that we see through the coaching that we're doing here either a they're not using google analytics B. They have google analytics set up but they don't really know how to take advantage of what's inside. What should we be measuring? They don't have goals set up for example or c they have it all set up but they're not taking any action out of the insights that they're gaining and applying. So what are you seeing on urine? How might financial brands be able to leverage google analytics data that can lead to more thoughtful marketing around people? Yeah I appreciate you walking into my wheelhouse here. I'm hoping we get here today. It's a problem. And I always think it's important to say for anybody listening to this if you're the person that you believe or you are responsible for the analytics and marketing analytics, your company, you didn't do anything wrong. You're not behind the eight ball. You know if you're new at a place you didn't inherit some mess. Everybody in the sector has these same problems. It's because of the technologies we have so many different technologies that especially community institutions, you know we do a lot of work with credit unions. We use so many different third party pieces of technology that it has just watered down the data to a point that if somebody tells me they spend a ton of time in google analytics right now before we walk in. I say why what are you doing there? We're getting there is one information out there. Okay. But it's on behaviors and it's on users and traffic and things like this. The outcomes that are being measured are either not there. They don't have conversion goals set up at all as you mentioned or the conversion goals that they are measuring are so useless. The idea of bringing them to my Ceo so he can bring them to the board. We're bringing in my Ceo. So we can talk about return on ad spend or return on investment for what we're doing in market average is impossible. The data's no good. I always compare it to, I know you're in Houston so I'll use football as the example from football. Guys always use football as an example. But people using analytics and trying to make decisions based on data the way it's set up when we walk in. Normally it's like playing a football game and you're keeping every stat in the world of the score of the game. And then at the end of the game, the two coaches get together and try to figure out who won. And one of the guys saying one coach saying, well we ran for 100 20 yards. We want the other coach saying, well we forced three turnovers. So we went and nobody knows and that's exactly what happens with google analytics and it's not a guessing game, why you're not measuring the score of the game properly? Yes. And it's a great analogy. One of the things that we see the improper management or or exploration of data is around like clicks, clicks on an apply button. Well I just want to play a hypothetical numbers game for the dear listener to help make this even more real for them. Let's hypothetically say you drive 1000 people to a landing page and you get 100 people to click on that apply button. I'm doing this to make my math super easy. So now we have a 10% conversion rate, quote unquote. If you're measuring clicks on that apply button as a fired off action. However, we know that around depending upon the product, Probably between 60-80, of people that start the application are going to abandon. So what we can say at...

...that point to probably do some adjustment our actual conversion rate if you will on that application would be 15. So in reality our conversion rate went from a 10% conversion rate. If it's based upon clicks To actual true conversions would be about 1.5%. Now, if I'm still doing math properly on this and from that point Out of that 1.5%, take that down even further to use your football analogy. Getting them across the goal line, getting the score. It would not only just be converted, it would be converted and funded is the ultimate like taking that down to the bottom line. So what are some of the challenges that you're seeing in this space when it comes to google analytics, where are people getting stuck, where they struggling, what's holding them back here? Your example is perfect for the most common problem that we see is that we can't measure what's working and what's not, we can't make clear decisions on whether or not we're driving the right behaviors or website is performing our landing pages for him and what may have you because we measure the outcome wrong. So the example you gave is perfect because that click to apply is great game measure it but it's a key performance indicator, it's rushing arts, you're lying to yourself if you're saying them to score the game And a big thing that we do with our clients is we're trying to really influence a culture change where everyone can make decisions based on data. You come back to your ceo with that 10% conversion rate And trust is going out the window because the numbers of Fugazi, the Benghazi, we're never going to get to the point of making decisions based on the data because we don't have the trust. So you actually get beautiful numbers there because if I walk in and I see a 10% conversion rate on anything. I say pump money into advertising. You're converting at 10% just drive the people there because we're gonna be printing checks, 1.5 and a half like two Conversion rate is a good benchmark for a lot of things cut under 2%. Like then we're getting more realistic right? So it brings like this is a little bit of a more technical point, but it's a big one. We measure marketing outcomes wrong all the time almost every 9900 places we walked into and we try to fix that. So we want to get to a place in our Ceo wants us to get to a place where you talked about getting over the goal line. Their marketing should be held responsible for what's becoming common terminology that marketing Qualified lead, yep, I got the right user to us. They filled out the application that is a marketing conversion goal of em que ele sales job getting that funded is an SQL and there are actually two different funnels and when we're in a perfect spot where we're able to make decisions based on data, we've got a clear data picture from the first time you ever touch my brand the first time you ever touch and add to the point where you've taken that marketing qualified conversion and then if I'm really on top of my game, I'm using email automation, I'm using the other piece of the puzzle to get from a marketing Qualified lead to a sales Qualified lead. You get that whole front end of your business measured in that way and you're going to know what's working and what's not. That's a fantastic point that you make because you know, we can come back to some of the research that came out of the four knees group a few years ago, 80 85% of ceos don't trust marketers because they look at the soft vanity metrics, they look at the soft numbers, not the bottom line. And so to your distinction, you know, you have marketing on one side of the equation, you have cells and the other. I think if we can start bringing those teams together within an organization and we can do away with these these silos That becomes the growth team. And I would say that's like that's growth team iteration. # one marketing's job is to...

...control the brand, the messaging the perception in the marketplace and just drive leads em que ele marketing Qualified leads, technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside, you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights. You can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show that then gets passed over to cells to the nurture those leads. Because that's where data analytics in the financial services space gets really, really messy because it's not just a direct point A to point B. It's not just from marketing to cells. In fact, what we've found through our experience in coaching is the faster that an organization can get a marketing qualified lead in touch with a salesperson. Whether that be over the phone, online chat, email in person doesn't matter. There's a higher propensity in conversion regardless of if that conversion is online or offline. Take that to the next level though. That's like I said, that's the growth team version one. Growth team version two. Now you bring the service team in and then you can get into some deeper conversations around like what's your retention rate. What's your Nps, what's your voice of the customer And now you're literally looking at all three of these different lenses because marketing control the message generates leads cells. Nurtures leads closes leads. Service retains all of that grows the account and they can activate promoters on the other side and you've got this beautiful experience. But you've got to get these foundational benchmarks in place first so that you know what's working, what's not working and just really get some clarity. Where would you say the biggest opportunity is here? I know one of the areas that you focus on is C. R. O. Or conversion rate optimization. What is that for the dear listener who might not be aware of that terminology? Yeah, conversion rate optimization is all about testing, evaluating using data to improve our conversion rate. Okay, we come back you mean higher level to pure optimization though. And I actually think this is the most important conversation again, I'm always thinking about that. They really hung on what you said there, James robert about Ceo is don't trust marketing people like it's as a marketing guy. It's not totally fair. But they don't trust the data completely fair. What the most, one of the most important conversations that we're having. I wanna hop on your point here real fast though. This is not, you know, pointing blame once again at marketers like I'm very empathetic. I mean, you know, come up through the marketing world and and and now working at a higher level like with senior leadership teams to try to bring a unified voice. So I fill the marketers pain on this. Why is this? I think we have to address the why there's a lot of history that gets built up into this. Going back to the early days of marketing, particularly in banking, for...

...example, when marketing was like tv radio, print, direct mail, it was almost impossible to quantify any of these activities hits, why marketing specifically within financial services has always been viewed as a cost center where I look at the future of this as a revenue center because back to your point, optimization is key figuring out what works, what does it do more of what work? Stop doing what doesn't work, continue with your thought please. Yes, because optimization, it does start with better data as we've talked about. But the most important conversation going on right now is about having the right philosophies that guide us so that we're understanding how to evaluate whether it's different channels like traditional versus digital advertising or different ads, different creative concepts, different messaging. So two of the most important conversation or two pieces of this very important conversation, we're having to try to bring teams together. One is fulfilling the customer journey and you talked about it in the different teams and their roles. The customer journey that we use to organize so much of our thinking from marketing outward is awareness that first touch point building familiarity, moving someone towards consideration and then conversion where our sales team kicks in and then you talk about loyalty. That ending point where service and support kick in where we can really get the end of the customer journey and start building brand loyalty. The customer journey leads to an important conversation that is about google calls it attribution modeling. We think about it as understanding the relation that different marketing channels and tactics have to one another a problem that we have working with credit unions. I always bring us back to getting a new member, right? We want to get a new member. This is a well researched and the long customer doing it is not realistic and we were trained at some point to go look at our adwords reporting and come back and say did it drive a conversion? Well somebody clicking on an adwords ad for any type of loan that you want to name and then becoming a member of your credit union and a hop is not a very realistic customer journey. That's a great point because once again we need to talk about why why this has been the perspective for so long. It's the direct marketing world. I do a I send out direct mel people then walk into my branch so that must be attributed back to a direct mail drop within three mile radius of my branches. Therefore, I can conclude this direct mail drop was successful. Not realistic, But when you're talking about this, they are long buying journeys depending upon the product 369, sometimes 12, even upwards of 18 months. Unlike some of the small business commercial side of things. We need to look at a longer tell attribution model and a multi touch attribution model of all of the different channels that influence and guide a buyer's decision back to the previous point that we were talking about to help build their confidence by providing clarity because when that level of confidence, that level of trust, it's a certain point, we make enough deposits in their trust fund that sits between their brains. That's when they click the apply button and so we need to be able to get some clarity. What are all of those those patterns if you will throughout this entire journey, if we start with better data and we can start applying some of these really important concepts in our conversations, we understand attribution modeling, we document, we make decisions based on the customer journey. That's where we're going to find optimization opportunities because if we're looking at ways to just optimize one channel or evaluate one type of marketing on its own, we're not putting ourselves in the shoes of our customers. They're going to go through multi touch point multi...

...channel journeys on their way to conversion and we have to give every piece of the puzzle. It's credit. We have to be organized that way and then we have to bring back our reporting in that way as well. Don't train our ceo to say adwords or facebook advertising or direct mail is good or bad if it led directly to a conversion, I recommend going back to episode 1 12 where I provide some perspective into four types of attribution models to measure conversion to measure acquisition. Just to continue to expand your thinking further on the subject. I want to come back to you on this kevin, you know, looking at all of this and I would say it's almost building a what I would call a culture of optimization. I teach four different Environments growth environments as part of a 90 day growth methodology. You can be learning, you can be thinking you can be doing or you could be reviewing and the most dangerous place to get stuck and really kind of the deadly place to get stuck is in the doing of anything in this particular case the doing of digital. And so when you're looking to create a culture of optimization, it's about creating space and time to pause to review, to reflect what has been done to then learn from those experiences to gain and gather the key insights. Think critically about those key insights and then apply that thinking to the next iteration of doing what are the opportunities here? And maybe I'll flip it around that opportunities because I would say there's probably more roadblocks that we need to address. What are the roadblocks that you're seeing when it comes to facilitating a culture of optimization. Not just within marketing but I would say marketing cells service leadership. Even What are your thoughts on this? Great question. I'll give you three. Okay, number one, I'm a broken record. It's bad data. If the data is wrong and it probably is, we're not going to get this conversation off the ground. If you don't trust the day, you'll never make decisions on it. So that is number one with a bullet and that's not just that can't be siloed again talking about different teams of themselves. We have to have a collaborative exercise to get the data right now. I'm gonna go too deep on this right now. But the marketing department can't be telling everybody what good data is. It's got to be a collaborative effort where you make sure you don't miss anything and you make sure everyone on the same page Once you get the data right. # two, a really important piece is getting our sales and marketing data in the same place that em que ele two SQL conversation. It gets lost in translation a lot because we're actually looking at different screens. We have sales people looking at sales numbers and saying the marketing data doesn't make any sense. And the marketing people not looking at the sales data and they're saying, well that doesn't matter. You don't understand what we're doing over here. We've got to get those two things into the same place and that leads to number three when we're really talking about influencing this from a decision making standpoint now that you say culture of optimization. We talked about making decisions based on data. Same thing it leads to optimizations is you've got to get to the therefore pieces we have to get out of this culture of reporting of I'm going to give you vanity metrics, I'm going to give you the numbers to make what I'm doing look good. We have to get away from that at all levels and start to say what is the opportunity? What is the challenge and what is the decision that we have to make here as a team? And that's really the top of the food chain, get the data right, get it all the data into the same place. So we're not looking at different screens and then get out of reporting and get into the Air Force. There's a great meme on this and I want to frame it around Lagos. So data is like ones and zeros. And if you think about Lagos and I think about, my kids are a little bit older than years. Data is like legos just scattered all across the floor,...

Right? And they hurt. It hurts when you step on a lego So what do we get? We get data and then we get analytics analytics is where you start getting into grouping and sorting maybe it's by color with the lego maybe it's by size. So that's your analytics because then you can get some visualization out of it, we can kind of determine like how things are going. But I would say the next level up insights insights is where now you're able to build something together to pull it all into uh something that's easy to understand. So you take the Lagos that are scattered on the floor, that's your data, you bring it all together, that's your analytics now, that's all sorted. And then you can build something and it's like ah that's a house. So now I know what this actually means. And from there, the last step is you got to take action, you got to put it in to action. And I think that's where this idea of a culture of optimization really comes together because otherwise like you said like this idea of just reporting for reporting sake, that's great. But it's like that's great. Now here's what we can do with it and making a commitment to do this at least quarterly, build that capability, build those habits up and then maybe you do it every other month and then you go get even better and then you can do it monthly and then you get even better and then you're doing this every single week as part of an optimization opportunity and somebody can take away the work great example for you right on that line of thinking is we've had conversations before, I know about the efficiency solutions in our sector that influences or takes away from user experience. So getting to insights, we have bad data on so many of our online platforms in the sector because these third party apps, so I'm working with a client and they've got a screen where they've got the like right off the homepage. One of the main user paths get to this like complex my name product or a new credit card. I'm just using a credit card for an easy example. Not everybody exactly understands that by a critic. So you click on this, I want to credit card terrific. We got the right person there. They need a credit card there on our site. They took the user path we wanted to take them from our homepage asks me a question at the start, good segment to me Am I a member and might not remember. I click I'm not a member. It takes me to a gigantic form. Yes, they have to become a member before they apply for the credit card. Right? I'm like Okay, not a great user experience. That's like a 26 field form you need me to fill out let me go. The other way I am a member sends me to a gigantic form. So what happened here is we don't have the data when somebody clicked onto that form and we jumped off the website. The user path that we see in analects died. Usually that something has to get fixed. But getting into the insights portion, get the data fixed up, get everybody looking at the same things, you might have a sales person saying well I need that form filled out the type of insight you're going to get to is looking at the actual behaviors that you're driving there, how many people finished that form? How many people would have just picked up the phone and talk to that salesperson who would have helped you fill out that form if you would have given them that option. And it's the type of insight, a simple test you'll get to if you get the data and you get people working together in that way. You know that's a great point. You're making some recent research that we have uh comes out of a company called Heap where they found that 43% of consumers believe that the majority of websites are not designed around the needs of the end user. On the flip side, 95% of product teams say that their website is somewhat easy or even very easy for users to navigate. This is one...

...of the reasons that we do Qualitative digital secret shopping studies and back to the point of the form. Like you can get really granule in the quantitative side. The big data qualitative is the thick data where we're focusing expertise is but then you can get quantitative to to see where the friction points are. Where are you losing 80 in this workflow back to your point to about like would someone be willing to talk to someone, You know, when it comes to the mortgage side of things, 92% of bowers buy from someone buy from one of the first to lenders that they speak with on the phone. However, our research has found that only 17% of banks and creditors are actively following up with abandoned applications. So put that another way, 83% of banks and credit lines do not follow up with abandoned applications. Fix this one little problem right here, don't do anything else. Don't do any other type of marketing. Just fix this one little problem. And you're gonna exponentially increase growth by capturing what you're already losing at the bottom line. Let me ask, you know, this has been a great conversation kevin and I really appreciate all of the knowledge expertise that you've brought to bear today. What are you most hopeful and excited about when it comes to utilizing data to empower financial brands to maximize their future digital growth potential When I'm most excited about, is that moving Over the last 19 months where the world's gone? That I'm hopeful we're going to get to a place where we really believe the entire customer journey for our customers or potential customers is rooted in data that we can get out of this idea of. Well, they're just going to walk in the branch and that's not trackable and they're going to take that piece of direct mail and walk into the branch and that's not trackable, it's the user path. And even if that is our conversion point and we want to get them into the branch, which is terrific. We want them to pick up the phone, we want them working with our people. Yes, we do. But there's so much data on the way there that I'm really hopeful that in the future we're going to start to clean up some of the like I'll call the mistakes, technology mistakes that have been made in the industry for efficiency solutions sake. And we're going to get back to the user experience if we're going to get back to offering customers and potential customers the type of outcomes that they want. You know, I want to help buying this complex financial product that I believe that if we get into the data, we get better data. We get our teams working together to get all the data in the same place. But we're going to get to a point of insights that's going to bring us back to empathy and bring us back to a place where we're thinking about our customers or potential customers first. Great point. I want to make a little bit of a technical side on this. But you mentioned this idea of calling in, it is possible now the loop call tracking data into this entire experience. And I think that's a major blind spot because we do know that people call in but who are they calling in? What products are they calling in for? So that's a small technical aside let's wrap up with this very very practical next step where can people get started? Like you know all growth all progress begins with a very simple step. What's the simple step that you would recommend the dear listener take as they move forward around data as part of their digital growth journey, what's something small they can commit to and the number one thing I can tell you to do is there is no time too soon to start getting better data. So work with someone don't try to do it yourself because you're not behind the april. Don't be do not fear what you're going to see in the data. We do not dismiss data because we don't want to see what it has to say, take the inputs, take the insights, work with someone to help you get...

...better data and there's no time to soon. So get into your analytics account, your google analytics account, look at your conversion goals, look at the outcomes, Go back to that number than me and you talked about start here James robert, see if you're closer to 2% or 1.5% conversion rate, we're 10% And if you're near 10% don't think you're doing well pick up the phone and get them out If you're around 1.5 for 2%. Ask yourself if you believe those numbers, if you're see always gonna believe those numbers and then if you have all the data in place to have the right conversations with your sales team that everyone's going to see that the same way that everyone is going to believe in it. The number one thing you can do leaving today is don't be afraid of the day to start working on getting better data into your marketing team. Then you can get your sales team involved. Then you can get your ceo involved and you can start to make real change about the way that your culture and the way your company can make decisions based on data. Absolutely kevin, this has been such, such a great conversation, a lot of fun. What's the best way that someone who is listening can continue the conversation with you if they'd like to how can they connect? I appreciate it man, metric marketing dot C A is our website. You're going to see my contact information right on there, feel free to reach out to me personally or hit info at metric marketing dot C. And you'll get me I promise connect with Kevin learned from Kevin, kevin. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thank you so much James as always and until next time be well do good and make your bed. Mhm Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth With James robert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe. While you're there to get even more practical improvement insights, visit www. Dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts, bestselling book banking on digital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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