Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

107) #DigitalGrowthJourneys: Educating & Creating a Better Customer Experience within Banking


When business feels “good enough,” it can lead to a decline in customer experience. Providing new ways to educate customers and make the banking process easier should not only be looked at as advantageous to the success of the bank, but as a reminder that helping the customer is the first priority.

Paul Long, Senior Vice President - Business Banking & SBA Lending at Timberland Bank, joins the show to discuss his approach to providing customers with a first-rate digital experience and always giving more than he will ever get back.

What we talked about:

  • 4 Pillars of Personal Growth for the Commercial Banker
  • The 3 Different Kinds of Bankers
  • The Princess Problem & How to Deal w/ a Surplus of Business
  • A Proactive VS. Reactive Stance to Business
  • Investing in Videos and Podcasts w/ the Intention to Educate
  • Balancing ROI and Content Production
  • Actionable Advice from Paul to the Listeners

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Banking On Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform. are we helping? And I think it's that giving back to the community that we serve and just giving back makes me feel good and gets me excited to create a personal brand. Mhm. Mhm. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential By generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the digital growth journeys series where James robert uncovers and explores some of the industry's biggest digital marketing and sales stories of success. Let's get into the show greetings and hello I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 107th episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the digital growth journey series and I'm excited to welcome paul Long to the show. Paul is the senior vice president of business banking and S. B. A. Lending at timberland bank in Washington state. He's actually been in banking for 22 years, starting a week after his 16th birthday as a teller. And he was raised in the ranks to the branch manager at the age of 18 and district manager leading multiple banks at the age of 21. At the age of 25 Paul found his passion of working with business owners, something that I'm personally passionate about as well in the banking space, entrepreneurship, small business etcetera. And since then paul has built multiple bank, small business banking divisions recently, creating an sp a division. He's written countless published articles about small business banking lending and has funded more business loans than he can count over his career. Paul is also a dog lover and a dad and today I'm excited to talk about paul, the journey that he's been on and how he has continuously transformed himself while maximizing his digital growth potential by building relationships through a personal brand rooted deeply in thought leadership. Welcome to the show poll, Thank you James robert. I'm glad to be here. I am so excited for this because this is an area of opportunity, one that I've been having guests come on and share their own digital growth journey stories, to educate, to inspire others, because there's so much opportunity around thought leadership in building a personal brand before we get there. What is one thing right now that you are just excited about personally or professionally? I'm happy to go back to the office. I know that sounds weird, I love being a dad and I love being around my kids, but it's kind of nice that you know, Covid kind of things are opening back up, we're able to go to restaurants, I'm able to take my clients out for lunch, unable to kind of prospect in person. I'm just happy that we're back to this somewhat normal. Yes, Yes. And I think what's going to be interesting is how much of what we learned through the covid...

...experience and operating in a digital world. How much are either we going to a retain and be even better because of it or be, we're going to simply forget and we're going to go back and fall back on old patterns, on old behaviors, on old habits. And that's going to probably create some conflict intention over the next 235 years. And so it'll just be interesting to see one of the things that I've been asking my financial brands in the banking on digital growth program is as we opened back up and I'd like to ask this for you, what is one thing that you will not do again as we move back into the kind of this adjustable period Because for me it's like I have conditions on traveling now being on the road, I don't have to be in the office all the time. I like going in. I like the personal interaction, I like the you know you know working with my team and all of that type stuff but it's also nice being at home and being with family. So I do see myself kind of doing a little bit of work from home and being a little bit more flexible and yeah just being more flexible. I think that's it. I think it's the flexibility, the adaptability. One of the big lessons that I've seen and I've been teaching is that EQ plus A. Q. Is greater than I. Q. So emotional intelligence plus adaptability is far greater than just I. Q. Alone and when we think about this idea of connection and I'm right there with you, I'm I love being around people, I love teaching, I love educating and now there's an opportunity to do it in the best of both worlds because it's more Generally and socially acceptable. I can think of going back to like even 2019 doing zoom calls in 2019. I would probably be the only one with a camera on everyone else have a camera often. Now it's like it's just that's part of the cultural and the social norm. And so when we think about People and relationships there are four things that you believe in Paul that you shared with me four pillars if you will that I'd like to get out into the open before we walk back in time together. Because I think it's these four things these four traits that have helped to frame and guide your thinking, your journey of growth along the way, which are to be open to be approachable, to be transparent, to be credible and the reason I want to address these early and often, because when it comes to sharing thought leadership, when it comes to building a personal brand, which is a tremendous growth opportunity for many who are listening right now, how do these four pillars that you have shared to be open, approachable, transparent, incredible. What role in how do these four pillars have played in your own journey of growth over the years as a commercial banker? That's a big question, I think it goes back to being different, being different, was something that my parents always taught... and as I grew up I always have that in my mind and I think being different can be in a good thing and being a different can be in a bad thing, But I definitely think that going back to, you know, episode 70 and Greg Martin, my buddy over in Texas is the riches are in the niches and that's where I've really found again, being different and how can, how can I provide value to others that nobody else is doing and that's why I kind of created, you know, the multi long brand 567 years ago, I forgot how long it's been, but I wanted to be able to share knowledge without kind of having the handcuffs necessarily of the institution that I would be working for and so you know what I will say, opinions expressed in this podcast, our personal opinions only and not necessarily those of paul's employer, but I think it's it's important that a lot of the information that I do give out people aren't addressing it and that's where I want to be kind of the bull in the china closet and really be out there and help others. So again, it all kind of starts back being creative. How can I be different within my brand? I really like that. It's to be different maybe even a little bit contrarian and taking a different path. As a, as a freshman in high school there was a, a poem, it was robert frost. Two roads diverged in a wood, two roads diverged in a wood and I took the one less traveled and that has made all the difference. And I always remember it's like burned in my mind's eye going back. I could see that poster and it was two roads in a wood, but I always was curious. I don't want to go down path A I don't want to go down path B I want to go down the middle, I want to like see what's in the woods and blaze that trail. And I was listening this morning actually to to some old thinking and an old speech by Earl Nightingale on Youtube and he was talking about, I'd say it's almost like quote unquote ancient wisdom at this point, but it's so practical today about specialization about focus. And that's big. A big thing that my friends over at Nimbus have been really, really teaching now is is to focus and to specialize around key areas. And you mentioned our friend Greg Martin an episode 70 when we think about opportunities, opportunities available for financial brands, commercial opportunities, what are some of the greatest opportunities available for them today in this new world that we see, we're all working through together. So I'm a firm believer that there's three different types of bankers that are out there. And so you have the small business banker who just got out of college, got a job as a business banker. They sat him in a desk and said, Hey you're going to have a small business banker, you now know everything okay. On the other side, you...

...have a commercial lender that's been in been in the industry for 30 some years. You know, if your lending request isn't over $1 million, they're not going to even return your phone call. What about the people in the middle, where's the service for that? And again, you know when we talk about small business, the word small business I think is kind of an overused term because are we talking micro businesses? Are we talking people with annual sales of 100,000, they still have lending needs. Are we talking, you know, small business, according to S. B. A. You know, is up to five, you know, up to five million of alone amount. What's the true definition? And I think that within that that middle space is where I thrive and where I want to provide the most value, not only to my clients, but my prospects and even people that I necessarily can help outside of Washington state, the information still needs to be out there. And again, it all goes back to why I created a personal brand is because I want to share even outside of my my world of what I can do, because digital has allowed your world to get even that much bigger. No longer. You can find to the border of Washington state, you can now look for others in a niche market segment to where you're providing deep level expertise across the country. And and you're right, I'm going to give a shout out to Michael Exstein. He had posted something yesterday on the subject on linked in, he said, you would never say mini golf is a miniaturized version of golf. There are similarities. You you play both with golf clubs, balls, tees and you're aiming for the whole. But that's where the similarities in the obstacles are totally different. The size of the course is different. The atmosphere is different. The time of play through it takes is different. So why, then is small business considered a miniaturized version of big business when it's really it's it's own game in and of itself? So, I think that's a really great analogy when we're thinking about this idea of small business commercial. What does that even mean to begin with? And one of the things that really intrigued me when Greg connected us together was a problem that you coined the princess problem, what's the princess problem and why is it important to address it? The princess problem is I've I've never been busier than going through with Covid. You know, there's the P. P. P. Program, there's all of that, but you know what, there's still lending needs that are out there. And so I was working on P. P. P. And these other commercial real estate deals and business acquisitions. And I would always tell people, hey, I got a princess problem and that is I have too much business and I think that we obviously need to take care of our customers, but being busy can be a good thing. But don't don't necessarily say, hey I'm too busy say you know, I'm never too busy enough for your referral or for your business and if you are too...

...busy, I think it takes. And I'm seeing this, I'm actually seeing this pretty frequently right now on the mortgage side of the house. Um, a lot of financial brand mortgage lenders are saying, you know what our pipelines to full, we can't take on any more. And I'm like, so either a fix the problem, get more capacity, hire more people or be have the courage to do a referral to another mortgage lender at another financial brand that can help that person because this is exactly what I've learned from Tony shea Zappos who passed away far too early. Great thinker delivering happiness is his book. And there's a Youtube video of him basically talking about the Zappos methodology of if someone is trying to place an order on Zappos and they're talking to someone in their call center that if Zappos is unable to fulfill or find whatever that product is, they'll literally go online, go to another website, even a competing website and say, hey, we found this for you, go buy it there, and that takes a lot of courage. But it all comes back to giving more than you will ever get, because it's going to come back and pay off tenfold in the end. But it's a mental shift that I really think has to happen for us to to make that. And so when we're thinking about mental shifts, when we're thinking about mindsets, this idea of taking a proactive stance vs. A reactive stance, what are the opportunities here and maybe why are a lot of financial brand marketing cells, leadership, team members, even stuck in a proactive state, stuck in the cave of complacency, and how can they break through, Break free of that? to take more of a proactive stance in relationship building? You know that that's a great question and I wish I knew that answer because I would be filthy rich if I knew that answer because I mean at the end of the day, yes, I'm busy, but I still have time to market. Market is not something you do just when you're slow, it's something you do all the time. And again, the mortgage industry, when they're super busy boom, they're not marketing. But you know what, that's when they should be. You should always be doing that. And I think that goes back to just being, being different in your mindset. Yeah, you have a big pipeline, maybe you've hit your goal for the year, Whatever the case is, you still have to go out there and get more business and I'm just, I, I wish that my industry in general, I'm sorry, which wasn't so lazy because what can happen is that laziness can kick in because hey, we get all the big deals coming in, I'm hitting my goal, things are going great. But what about are we in the business to just make a bunch of money? Are we in the business to help people and when we're helping people, That's where I get the good feeling inside. I never worry about my goal or the numbers that I need to have. I always hit those. How... I helping others? How am I giving my knowledge a way to help joe blow in Idaho, get a business loan at whatever bank that's not mine. It doesn't matter how are we helping? And I think it's that giving back to the community that we serve and just giving back, makes me feel good and gets me excited to create a personal brand, because it comes back to that. Yeah, we're gonna come back to that point of of that journey of building the personal brand here in a moment, because I think it's there's a lot of lessons to learn to unpack to share with the dear listener. I want to come down the path of building relationships, because at the end of the day, I that's what it's all about, it's about building relationships, it's about educating, it's about empowering and elevating others. And so one of the big pain points when it comes to building relationships digitally, for example, that I hear from marketing teams, sells team leadership teams is the complaints around Crm, and I get it, I understand it, there's a lot of pain, there's a lot of friction, there's a lot of frustration historically, when I bring up Crm in a group setting or at a conference, two things happen number one, either eye rolls and there's a lot of shifting in the seats are number two, there are like audible moans and groans as they think about and reflect on the negative experience tied to the tool tied to the technology. And so if we can transform the thinking of Crm meaning historically, customer relationship management, which is a reactive state in and of itself to really thinking about a Crm being a tool to multiply relationship. So customer relationship multiplier, I know that you got fed up with the pain of Crm, you built your own. How has that helped you take a proactive approach to relationships, to build relationships, to nurture relationships, to follow up with people, to really make what I call, make the micro moments matter. Yes. And going back, you know, um I was raised in large institutions, large institutions have Crm and they make sure that you use them and so they really put that thumb right on you to make sure you do it. And so to be honestly, I think it does go back to that and I think those large institutions for helping me kind of make that foundation within my mind, but what I think got me into the leap of that is it goes back to again, how are we connecting with our clients and using outlook to remind me of someone's birthday, it's not that easy but a Crm that says hey joe blow's birthdays today and I send them a card, it's that impact. They have. My customers always get a birthday card for me and they will always get an anniversary card of their banking relationship with my institution And you know, thanks for celebrating 22 years of being my customer or 22 years of with the bank. It gives me a reason to reach out and...

...touch them. How are things? Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch. If they walk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits, we get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth. Or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits now back to the show as you're talking through this. Do you mind if I just give you some proactive, real time advice recommendations to take that process and like level it up and make it even that much better because it's great. It's it's those micro moments that matter, the micro in this digital world, I believe will beat the macro day in and day out. So if you can take that same methodology and it could be a multi touch system at this point, number one continue to do the work that you're doing there. There's the ability to maybe adding a little bit of automation even to the point where I'm seeing automation down to handwritten cards to where the ink actually gets embedded into the stationary. Like you would never know the difference, I'm not saying go in that direction, but to level it up with, with video, I'm seeing a lot more video used particularly on the mortgage side of the business and to utilize a platform, say like loom to where it literally takes 30 eric cook and I were just doing this the other day, ERic spent another guest on the podcast. He really is, and ERic had a question for me, he hit me up on linkedin. He was like, hey, I got something in your inbox and I forgot about it, like because I mean my inbox is just, it's a mess and I don't like being in my inbox. And so if you sent me an email and I haven't followed up. There it is. Um but he sent me something in, linked in and I'm like I was like you know, I feel really bad. So I I got on loom, I sent him a video, I said eric thanks so much, I appreciate the note and he was asking me a couple of questions and it was a two minute video and that was it. He sends me a video communication back via, linked in via loom on the mobile device. And it was like 60 seconds. But it was a different experience than just typing something out. And if we can build that video calms into just our work, full of our process, our methodology, our mindset, sending those messages via linked in or even email. But then that's personalized. But then if you're doing the cards as well, doing almost a. Q. R. Code on the card. And that links... just more of a standard thank you video celebrating them etcetera etcetera. So I'm just giving you some real time to think that's a good one. And one thing I do is any customer that you know that I need to submit that, that I need to say, hey I need your tax returns and whatever for the loan etcetera. Actually has a video of me, hey thanks for talking on the phone with me. Just like we're doing here and it's got that and then down below there's details on how to fill out the form, click this Youtube video, it's me going through the form. It's creating that digital experience for them because anyone can say I need your tax returns in a personal financial statement. Okay. The biggest complaint I have heard and I've interviewed a lot of my customers is they hate that personal financial statement. It looks horrible. It's crazy on the level of detail. So let's create a video on how to fill it out because I'm tired of repeating myself on how to fill it out. And this is where I love these conversations because I'm able to start connecting just different thoughts and ideas and people and processes altogether. That's a big pain point that Karen Monahans is helping to solve with boss insights so that no longer is it kind of this back and forth. It's literally it's more of a P. I. Integration tapping into the I. R. S tapping into quickbooks or whatever data. So literally you could tap in there as a commercial lender, look at their P. And L's. It's obviously permission based so they just literally unlock that and then it takes care of that back and forth. But I like that the use of video to humanize that experience to walk them through, hold their hands step by step because we know how confusing and frustrating can feel to have to deal with money yet alone, the commercial side of the house and the lending aspects, so you're just taking a step above and a step beyond and that's where I want to look back here to those four pillars to be open to be approachable, to be transparent and thinking about these pillars and how they've helped you to build a personal brand. One that I recommend. The dear listener. Check out, check out your linked in profile, connect with you there, but also check out your personal website over at paul t long dot com because on linked in your profile shares. Business owners deserve a commercial banker that is a strategic advisor, not just a banker. And you live this belief through your personal brand through the website that you've been building where you have podcast, you have videos, you have articles, an entire library of resource to educate, empower and elevate others who are looking to start to buy, to build to grow a business. What's the story here? Let's go back in your mind those 567 years ago, when did you launch this website, This personal brand and what was the inspiration for you to, for lack of a better word, take the time to do so to make that investment. So again, I am all about efficiency. My brain, everything I do is efficiency. So when I get asked the same question over and over and over and over again, that really annoys me. So I take that...

...annoyance and turn it into an idea and that is creating those videos. And so one of the first things I did and they're still on my site is what's a commercial loan, what should you expect in the process, those simple types of things. And then I just started moving on that. And one of the things that I did recently on there is I kind of revamp the website a little bit, so it's really towards, hey, not what I can offer you. It's in the person who goes to the website, there's a section that says, I need, I need a commercial loan, I need an acquisition loan I need. So I'm changing the mindset onto a really addressing of what my website viewer wants to get. It's not about me, it's not about The bank that I'm at, it's about what do you need. And so it goes back to videos. I'm about ready to start a 52 week video series um which has been a ton of work, of three minute videos on the commercial loan process for commercial real estate. And I am going to dwell On every little thing in the short 2-3 minute videos to give them the information that they want because that's the questions that I get. What's title insurance, what's an environmental report going into the videos and making the digital experience? I think this all comes down to one thing. It's just value, its value creation, value creation for others. You may or may not ever do any business with your truly giving more than you're ever going to get back. And so I want to address this what value has this time investment because that's pretty much all it is, it's a time investment. What value has this time investment created for you in the aggregate? Because I think the way a lot of bankers think is there like I need some proof before I make this investment dollars or in this particular case probably more time than anything. What's the value? What's the payoff? What's the hope that you can give someone who's listening? Well what I want and I'll give you a real life example about a year and a half ago I got an email through the website and it was a person over in, I want to say it was Oklahoma completely out of my, my service area but watched a few of the videos, had some additional questions and I was more than happy to answer it again. It's providing that just enough detail for them to be able to be educated. I just want them to be educated. I do so many loans a year that people just don't fully understand the process. You're making a huge investment into your building, you're buying a business, you're buying equipment, whatever the case is, let's get you the full education. So you know exactly what you're wanting to do and...

...what you're signing on that dotted line. Most people, it's just like an apple service agreement. You just collect the box and move on and that's not necessarily how it should be. The banker should be able to walk you through what you're signing, understanding what a personal guarantee is and really helping them through the process. Yes. And in addition, and I think it's important to address this in addition to the website, the content, the articles, the podcast, the videos, the emails. You're also bringing people together for good with an annual business summit. What's the story there? Because to me that's a unique opportunity for a lot of financial brands to start connecting content and thought leadership and expertise to. Now you're almost hosting the party and just inviting other people to join you. Because that's, I mean, that's what the cool kids, that's what the cool kids in school. I mean, if you are really cool, if you hosted the party, that's right, Absolutely well and six years ago I said, you know what, how can I give back to the community? How can I give them the information? Because it was about that same time that I was starting the paul brand. And so I created an event where every single day people could come in for lunch and learn about a topic and I had about 30 people the first year and over the years it doubles in size and, and I think back, you know, obviously Covid kind of destroyed me a little bit. I did a little bit more virtual and people are tired of zoom but before we got into into the virtual piece, I ended up having 100 and 70 local business people in a room together, networking and learning from local experts and even some national had mike McCalla wits on their great big name. And again, how can I get the information to people to help them? How can we get people in a room to network, get business from one another and hope to go back to in person next year? We will go back in person next year and let's continue that. And again, can I say that? It obviously gets me business? Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. But at the end of the day, I don't care. It's about giving back. See that's where I think a lot of financial brand marking cells and leadership teams fall short because they're so focused on R. O. I return on investment, but I'm wanting to start which is important. It really is, it really is. I'm not I'm not short changing that, but I'm also trying to bring a whole new perspective to the conversation of R. O. R. What is the return on relationship that we're bringing? How can we quantify R. O. R. And what are the specific measurable? So I got some thinking framed up around that that I'm working through and I can hear the dear listener thinking two things at this point, number one, how do you make time to produce and promote all of this content? And then number two, how are you able to do all of this personal brand work while maintaining a good relationship with your bank? Because there's a lot of tension here,...

There's a lot of conflict that I see in these two key areas when coaching and guiding other leaders in the industry Well, you know, and that that's a great question. And I what's nice is I also have a marketing brain and a legal brain, which I think makes me a good banker. So, you know, just like I gave the disclaimer at the beginning, you know, it's important that you don't ever want to make or say anything that that is against your institution or anything like that, because it's obviously a cohesive Marriage. But at the same .2, there's nothing stopping me from doing what I want outside Of my day employment. Why can't I give that information out? Is I mean, I don't mention my bank's name. If I can help. Great, then that's when I'll mention my bank's name. But you've got to create that separation, kind of between church and state a little bit. But the same .2, there is going to be some overlap. That makes a lot of sense. And and it's good to know and I like that. It's the marketing, the cells, the leadership, the legal side of things, all working hand in hand together and creating good boundaries. Um I think I think boundaries is really, really important here and and this has been such an empowering and enriching conversation. I've learned a tremendous amount from you and as we wrap up, I want I want to get really practical here to help the dear listener to move forward to make some progress together, all of us together on our own digital growth journeys has all changed all all progress. All transformational growth begins with a single commitment, a small step forward to do just one thing. And what would that one thing be, that small actionable item that you would recommend? A financial, brand, marketing, sales or leadership team member who is listening today to commit to as they move forward, really thinking about these four pillars of growth, to be open, to be approachable, to be transparent, to be credible. What would that one thing be that you could recommend based upon just your experience of your own journey here? I would say find somebody that does exactly what you do across the state or outside of your area. I'm gonna go back to my buddy Greg martin, I heard him on another podcast and I just reached out to him and said, hey Greg, it's great to see someone that's actually doing something like I am, let's get together and collaborate over and we've known each other now for a couple of years. We ended up doing a video series together where we discussed some of this stuff and we have it on, linked on Youtube and we partnered together. We are not direct competitors, but we do the same thing. He provides a part of value, I provide a part of value and we're sharing that find a competitor. I'm putting air quotes and partner with them because you're going to learn something from them two. I've learned a ton from Greg martin and I hope that Greg's learned some stuff for me throughout my personal brand. You know, that's a great point and it's, it's looking at the world from a view of abundance and not scarcity of...

...collaboration being greater than competition. And on that note, you mentioned Greg, you've got yourself, you've got Natalie Bartholomew who was a guest on this an episode 96. You've got Jodie episode number 85 from social assurance dug within um social episode number 80 carry an from J. M. And B. Group who's running the internal marketing podcast. So she's down in Jamaica episode number 62 episode 51 with, with J. Paultre. I mean these are the common patterns and trends that we're seeing and I'm just trying to make these connections to bring people together to create exponential value. So I like that look for and I like the way you frame that look for a competitor because it transformed the thinking of the mind. Say we're not competitors, were collaborators and we're going to create are more valuable to give more than we will ever receive back. And for someone who wants to connect with you to continue this conversation, to learn to literally put what you've just put into practice here. What you've just recommended to put into practice? What's the best way for them to reach out? Say hello, connect with you, definitely check out the website paul, t long dot com on. There's my contact information and I would love to be able to help any banker anywhere start this because it definitely will fill your soul. You know, I think I'm just gonna put this out there and normal, this is how all great ideas begin is when you just put them out into the universe. I think there might be an opportunity to bring some of these guests that I've had and really maybe start building a micro community of sorts of thought leaders, teaching thought leaders. Um that's powerful. I don't know what it looks like but it's it's just one of the time my brain works. You know, it just takes ideas and I have way more many ideas that probably a really bad, but there's those few that are just, you know what, they're going to create a lot of good. So I'm putting this is more of a note for my future self, that's a year or two years now. We can come back to reference this podcast. That's exactly how I wrote the book banking on digital growth. I was on a podcast with gray Mackenzie and was like, what's one good thing? What's going to happen this year? And this was this was January of 2019. I was like, this is the year I write the book. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I've got to write a book this year. Uh and then that actually started in May of 2019, which was published in May of 2020. And it just, I'm putting that out because we're gonna come back and it's going to be documented. That's why I'm trying to document more now with just my life because we have that capability so that we can come back and make these references. So man Paul, thank you so much. There's been a lot of fun and I appreciate all the knowledge of the wisdom that you've shared on this episode of banking on digital growth. Thank you as always un until next time be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcasts, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get...

...even more practical improvement insights visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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