Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

175) #ExponentialInsights - From Impressed to Obsessed: Why You Need to Invest in Customer Experience


Companies subject their customers to unthinkable indignities every day.

It’s time to inject more humanity into our interactions with our customers.

It’s time to imbue our interactions with more emotional resonance.

It’s time to improve the customer experience.

That’s why I’m talking to Jon Picoult, Founder & Principal at Watermark Consulting. He literally wrote the book on it — From Impressed to Obsessed: 12 Principles for Turning Customers and Employees into Lifelong Fans.

In this episode, we delve into the nitty gritty of acing the customer experience.

Join us as we discuss:

  • The difference between customer service and customer experience
  • How positive employee experience leads to positive customer experience
  • How to make the case for investing in customer experience
  • The importance of creating peaks and valleys and finishing strong

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

What I have found in studying companies that do this well is that they recognize that they're not just in the business of creating great customer experiences. There in the business of creating great customer memories. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Laigh, a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Laigh and welcome to the one hundred and seventy five episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome John Pico to the show. John is the founder of Watermark Consulting and a leading expert in customer and employee experience. John has been featured by dozens of media outlets, including the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, NBC News and Forbes, just to name a few. He is advised sea sweet leaders at some of the world's foremost brands, helping companies capitalize on the power of loyalty, both in the marketplace as well as in the workplace. And today John Joins us to talk about his fascinating new book, from impressed to obsessed, twelve principles for turning customers and employees into lifelong fans. Welcome to the show, John, it is so good to share time with you today. O. Hey, James Robert, it's going to be with you. Before we get into talking your book. From and pressed to obsessed, there's a son of great insights that I'm excited to explore. But before we get there, what's good for you personally, professionally, it's always your pick to get started on the show. What is good for me? What's from you other than speaking with you? Yeah, than speaking with me. I'll tell you well not to engage in shameless self promotion. But you know this well because you're an author yourself. But you pour yourself into writing a book. Yes, you do, and so the book, of course, is relatively new, and so it is the good thing right now, I would say, is it's very rewarding to have the book out there to be hearing the positive feedback from people about it. You know, it's just it takes a long time to write a book and to do it right, and so I'd say I'm still writing on that crest. It is it does take all. You pour your heart, you pour your soul. It is a heavy lift and, as you mentioned, as a fellow author, I want to start there. Why? Why? Right from impressed to obsessed in the first place? What was what inspired you to go down this journey to begin yeah, something that always bothered me back in my corporate days, when I was working in the corporate world right through to when I started my own firm in two thousand and nine. It always troubled me how companies subject customers to all sorts of indignities, and you know, it's probably only gotten worse in pandemic times. We wait in line, we're subjected to lack of transparency, hidden fees, Gotcha expenses, hard to find people to, you know, answer a question, whether it's in a store or in a contact center. Hard to find people who take ownership for helping you. As opposed to kicking the can down the road to another department. And you know, there's just there's just such incivility and indignity in so many business interactions, be it with customers or even employees. And what I've always found is there are a whole host of very simple, straightforward things that companies and leaders can do to inject greater humanity into those experiences and... remove those indignities, and it just bothered me that more companies wouldn't just wouldn't take the time to do that. And and so that was really the reason why I wanted to put all these ideas on paper, because there are limits to how many people I can influence just through speaking engagements or, you know, consulting engagements, and and so, yeah, that was the genesis of the book. That's why I wanted to do it. Well, I appreciate that in the the lack of humanity, if you will, is one that I am really hoping to inject back into the financial services space, into the banking space, and banking on digital growth. I wrote about DX hx equals growth, the digital experience plus the human experience. But then I was like, I got a wrong and what I mean, and you touched on this before. You mentioned the ex the employee experience, and I'm so glad like in the subtitle, the subtitles twelve principles for turning customers and employees into lifelong fans, because it's it is a mix of both here, and we'll come back to the the point on employees and a bit. But as you opened up the book, I just immediately was like yes, yes, I totally get this. Had a an emotion when you were writing about rap rage. Wrap rage is real and when I read this in chapter one, I really connected and I want to start here with the conversation because if you think about wrap rage, I think rap rage can easily be translated into the financial services space. While it might not be physical wrap rage, it's intangible wrap rage. We get that visceral emotion, negative emotion. What is wrap rage for the dear listener? Sure so wrap rage. If your listeners aren't familiar with the term, I'm sure they've experienced what it refers to and it really talks about the frustration that people feel when trying to free a product from a nearly impenetrable package. And you know, a classic culprit of wrap rage. Are Those clam they're called clamshell or oyster shell packages. Kids, toys, electronics, led light bulbs come in that packaging and you know it's just you got to get out the screwdriver, the scissors, the box cutters. And the thing is that once you start ripping it open, the edges are razor sharp and, as you know from reading the book, but many people don't, over six thou people a year in the United States had no ency room with injuries inflicted from wrap rage. You know, they're trying so hard to get the product out of this ridiculous packaging they actually lacerate their bodies so badly they need to immediately seek out in the yard doc. And you know, the reason that I start a book about customer experience talking about rap rage is because Amazoncom in two thousand and eight launched their response to wrap rage and it was called frustration free packaging and it basically meant that they negotiated with suppliers to take these products out of their metal twist ties, out of the clam shells, so that Amazon could just put it in their box, ship it to you, you get it, you take it out, there's no crying or tears or blood or lacerations. Everybody's a lot happier and this is actually something. It's become a competitive advantage for Amazon, you know, a reinforce verses. They're one of their brand proof it's a brand proof point in terms of how easy it is to work, to work with them, not that just to order, but to open up the package that you get. And I think the key lesson for organizations about the rap rage story is really twofold one, is that there is a whole universe of touch points that comprise your customer experience. You know, many people would look at Amazon and say, Hey, you know the package is it's out of your wheelhouse. I mean once you ship it from your warehouse, that's it, you're done right. But...

...they didn't see it that way because they understood that that was an interaction point that, even if subconsciously, would influence people's perceptions of their Amazon experience. So they manage that touch point very deliberately and intentionally, and so that's the first takeaway, is that the universe of interactions and touch points that comprise the experience is much broader than what many businesses organized. The second key takeaway, and it gets to something you were referring to a moment ago, is the emotional component of the experience. It's called frustration free packaging and it's called out for a reason. It is meant to mitigate frustration and frustration is an emotion and and the key learning, I think, from that, is Amazon was very smart because they understand that ultimately, people's perceptions of the experience they have with you is going to be shaped not by their logical, rational evaluation of the interaction but by the emotional resonance how they feel after they walk away from that experience, and that's what frustration free packaging was meant to address. I can see this being so practically applied in the financial service to space, in the banking space. While we're not, you know, cutting ourselves on packaging, we might be inflicting pain for a perspective account holder. They're not opening a package, but they're opening an account, they're applying for a loan, and we talked about frictionless banking, and I like this frustration free packaging, frustration free banking. I think that's a really great takeaway right there, and once again I had no idea. Six thousand people go to the emergency room, but with fork for kids, and with four kids, I'm sitting here, you know, going to battle during the holiday season opening up all of the stuff. But you're right, now that I now that you've brought that awareness to my mind, Amazon has made it much easier to get into whatever it is that you're getting into and it does impact the overall Amazon experience, even though it's outside of their quote unquote, will house. It's all of these small, little micro touches that really just kind of as the sum is greater than than the individual parts here. I'm curious, before we go further, clarifying for the dear listener the difference between customer experience, because that's the word it gets thrown around a lot. What's the difference between customer experience and cut Summer Service, and why is it important to make a distinction between the two? Yeah, so customer service is but one part of the customer experience. It's just like the user experience with an online digital experience is but one part of the customer experience. So customer service, I would argue, is definitely not synonymous with customer experience because the customer experience begins even before someone's a customer. And so you know, I'd argue that the first time I hear about a bank or a credit union or a wealth manager, I'm not even doing business with them yet. But the first time I hear about that, maybe it's in an advertisement, maybe it is a friend or a colleague who mentions them, right then and there, the customer experience has begun, because that's my first entree into your brand and what's being said about you. And then eventually, of course, I sign up, I go through a purchase process. That's part of the customer experience. Actually using your products, whatever it is, that's part of the experience. Now I still haven't gotten anywhere near service right the traditional definition of service, where I like, need help from someone and so I do an online chat or I call a contact center, and so you can see that there's just a whole array of interaction points that are completely independent of what people would traditionally define as customer service. I'd also go one step further to explain why it's important to view those two terms as be being distinct, and that is that in many industries, the need...

...for customer service can actually indicate a problem with your customer experience. And here's what I mean by that. In the financial services industry, we talked about friction a moment ago. Right, a common source of friction and financial services is with the stuff that you send to me on paper. Yes, maybe it's a disclosure statement, maybe it is an account statement, but whatever it is, a lot of financial services institutions are not good at presenting that information in a simple, easily digestible manner. So when I get my account statement and I can't answer a question, a common question that I have looking at that statement, what am I going to do? I'm going to call you. I have the need for service then. So the fact that I needed help is actually an indication of a problem earlier in the experience, because if that account statement had just been designed differently, right, if it had been simplified, you would have pre empted you would have obviated the need for me to contact you and seek service. And so that, again, is a really important reason why customer service and customer experience are are really distinct entities. Now it makes a lot of sense and I think it's this idea of looking at things through an objective lens, but it's all those micro moments, the things that we take for granted because it's the curse of knowledge. We think that we it's clear. Well, it's clear to us because we live day in and day out from this world view, but if you go to the outside world, that's where I think the confusion begins to set in. That confusion leads to some type of conflict. That conflict, if not resolve, leads to ultimate chaos. And I want to I want to go inwards just for a bit because, as I mentioned before, I got it wrong with my thinking on experience, you know, going from writing book number one banking on digital growth, now I'm writing book number two, banking on change. It's the idea of the employee experience and I'm I appreciated that being addressed in the subtitle of the Book and the point that you made in chapter two when when you ask the question, are my employees my customers? What's your take here, considering the great resignation and that we keep reading and hearing about? Yes, I think that the great resignation and really the entire shift of power, if you will, from employers to employees, just given the where supply and demand is with the workforce these days, I think it only underscores the importance of companies focusing on the quality of the employee experience. And, as you noted, in the book, I make the argument that employees are a type of customer. Granted, it's a different type of relationship. They're not paying you, you're paying them, but nevertheless they, just like a consumer, are trying to derive value from the relation ship that they have with the company, right, and so, as such, I think it is important for companies to deliver value, impressive value, so that employees are drawn to want to work at that institution and they want to stick around. Yeah, and you know the what I have always found in my experience is that the things that foster engagement between a AAA business and an employee are not all that different than the things that foster engagement between a business and a customer. Yes, things like, are you responsive to me? Do you communicate with me clearly and transparently? Do you advocate for my interests? Do I feel better after I have interacted with you as compared to before? And so there are so many similarities in terms of how you create a positive, loyalty enhancing experience with employees versus customers, that my argument is the same techniques that beloved businesses... starbucks, Costco, Disney, Amazon, the techniques that they are using to engage their customers, they can be applied to the employee audience without question, exactly, because a positive employee experience will then yield a positive human experience that can then be multiplied via positive digital experience. It's yeah, and it's it is a flywheel. Yeah, here that can be very powerful because, you know, to really break it down, a brass tax here. Just take a contact center, for example. If your employee is frustrated, if they're discouraged, if they're disengaged because they hate their job, how do you think they are going to interact with that next customer that calls in? It is not going to be a happy employee that's, you know, trying to be helpful and whatnot. It's somebody who is just going to be weighed down by all of the troubles and frustrations that they have in their job now. So so that's sort of one connection point. But the other is that if you have customers that are always frustrated and then the employee, every time they see that phone rings, the phone ring, what are they thinking? Oh, Gosh, have law response right again? Yeah, no, not another complaint. And so think about what that does to the employee experience. So these two things are inextricably linked. Happy satisfied employees help create happy, loyal customers, which can turn help create more happy, satisfied and loyal employees. And once you get that flywheel going and that momentum created, you know, I would argue you can pretty much roll over your competitors because that can be unstoppable. Well, I think in this particular case, you know, you mentioned Amazon before with the frustration free packaging. I'm also thinking now here with the call center, and I'm a big believer, for example, in the financial services space. You know that CON Call Center, that contact center, is going to be a key part of the experience going forward, even a dig in a digital world, because we know that, you know, people have questions, people want to talk to people. You can only get so far with an AI chat bought before you get frustrated and like I just don't have talks to someone. But but Zappos, right. I mean Tony Shade delivering happiness. You know, his whole thing was in he spoke about this so frequently, like it was the people and they took care of the people internally so that then you take care of the customers externally. It's made a big impression on my wife because with four kids, you know, who are now twelve and ten, eight and six, we've boughtrowing out of shoes every week. We bought a lot of shoes and, let me tell you, we've recycled a lot of shoes as well, down to, you know, to the kids, but then ultimately like, okay, we just got it, we got to start of we gotta throw these out and because we just cannot, the tread is gone. You touched on a point before too, about value and value creation, and I think that's a key element to maybe dialog around here for a bit, because when you think about financial services, banks, credit unions, mortgage companies, wealth management at the run by very smart, left brain driven people who get numbers, that's a good thing, but when you're talking about this idea of experience and a motion touchy feeling stuff, there might be a bit of a gap here. And it all comes down to the bottom line, which you address, the the the the calculus of experience. What's the best way to make the case for investing in experience or what I would maybe call experience optimization. Yeah, so you're right. In the book there is a study that my firm started doing about a decade ago. It's called the watermark consulting customer experience Roi Study, and a new...

...version of it is included in the book. And basically what the study does is it looks at the shareholder return of the top ten publicly traded companies in customer experience, the CX leaders, versus the bottom ten, the CX laggards. And Mind You, we're not picking the firms, we're just using rankings that are put out by third party research organizations that make a living out of this, interviewing tens of thousands of consumers each year to rank these companies based on the feedback. And so we've got thirteen years of data under our belt and over that thirteen year period, the companies that lead in customer experience outperform those that lagged by an over three to one ratio and shareholder return. And it's also worth noting that the leaders outperform the snpfive hundred by about over a hundred eight a hundred points, and the lagguard's underperform the snpfive hundred, which I think is a really important point, because what it shows is that there's not just a financial reward for delivering a great customer experience, there's also a financial penalty for failing to do so. A lot of companies stress over, well, what is it going to cost us to improve our customer experience? Well, the better question might be what is going to cost us if we don't and I think that the the centerpiece graphic of that study, which shows the pecking order of these lagguards and the SP five hundred in the leaders, really underscores that point. So, at a macro level, I think that's a really valuable study in terms of getting people to at least open their eyes to the notion that the benefits of a great customer experience, the financial benefits, are not soft and in Tangent correer, are very real. They're hard. You can take them to the bank, no pun intended. So you know, that's one way that I think that you justify it. The other way, at a micro level, I would tell you, is it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, the notion that a great customer experience doesn't just help you to boost revenues because you keep people longer. Right. They refer others to you, they entertain ideas for other products and services from you. That's all great stuff, but can be hard to quantify. The flip side is, though, it actually helps you to better control, if not reduce, your expenses. And we were talking about the account statement. If the account statement is awful, what does it do? It drives expense in the organization because your customers now need to call you to decipher what it is you were trying to tell me on that piece of paper. Same as true with a website that's not good, that's not smartly designed. What am I going to do? I'm a channel switch because I can't figure out how to do what I want on the website or in the APP and I'm going to call you. And so those are great examples of how, if you're delivering a great customer experience upstream, it actually helps you reduce your expenses down stream, right, which is, you know, another part of the economic calculus that I think many companies overlook. Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fintext who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. Visit Digital growthcom slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show. A lot of it, you know, I can hear in the back of my mind around the employee side and employee experience, because there's that whole thing of you like, Oh, what if we have to pay, you know, our employees to get even smarter, to get the training that they need? And then the counter to that is like well, and they and then they leave and so we just wasted all that money on them. Well, then the other argument as well. What if we don't, you know, invest in them and they stay right and then it kind of creates this negative fly will affect before move into and I want to touch on the the the...

...twelve principles. We're not going to cover them all, a few that I think would be helpful for the dear listener. I want, I'm to address and get your take on this? Who owns experience? Who should take ownership of that within an organization, because it's like it's such a broad term abroad, I did I get it. We get CXOS and whatnot, but who, if we don't have a C exodes that fall under marketing? Does a fall understand like, where does that fit within the organization structure here? Yeah, so it is a it is a question that is very challenging for many organizations and, as you note, some organizations choose to hire a chief experience officer, a chief customer office or something like that, and I think that there are appropriate times where it benefits an organization to have someone in that kind of position, usually early in their journey around trying to competitively differentiate their customer experience, because it's almost like a enterprise. It's an enterprise level person that's almost like the air traffic control monitoring all the different efforts and initiatives going on, from sales to service, to manufacturing, engineering to design, wherever, that are all trying to move the needle on this and sometimes it's helpful to have someone that's looking from that perch. Yep, the risk of courses that when you have achieved. Customer Officer. The risk is people look at that individual and say, oh well, that person's responsible for the customer experience, and that can be problematic. Yes, because what everyone needs to understand is that they have a hand in shaping a certain part of the experience. And, going back to what I said earlier, that experience is informed by a whole array of interaction points. There is not just one person that's responsible for all of them. You need to make sure that your backyard, your little part of that experience, is pristine, is exceptional, is engaging, and you know, at certain points this actually comes down to an individual. You know, my definition of customer experience that I put in the book is that customer experience is how customers feel about their interactions with you. Now I use the word you as opposed to your company, and I did that very deliberately because oftentimes it is about you, the individual, the one who's writing an email to the client, the one who's on the phone with a client, because at that moment you are the face of the brand. Yes, you own the customer experience, and so I know that a lot of people say, well, if everybody owns that, the no one owns it. But to me this is sort of like, you know, who owns doing business right in the in the organization? Well, well, nobody does. I mean we all are part of that. Well, customer experience is the same thing. You know, customer experience is something that should weave its way throughout the entire organization, and so I think it's critical that everyone understands I have a piece of this, I own it and and if I don't do my little part, you know, the rest of the dominoes are not going to fall right. I like that idead that at more of that corporate executive level, that's cxo level, that's more of like vision casting strategy, but when it comes to the brass tax execution, it really trickles down into teams, teams than track trickled down into the individual. And maybe a really good question for the dear listeners ask themselves, regardless of where they sit within the organization, when I send that next email, when I'm, you know, make that next phone call, put yourself on the other side and if I was receiving this message, how would that make me feel? And look at it through an empathetic Lens. And and it says idea of moving into application. You you have these twelve principles and I want to cover a couple of them here and study with the first two, because you mentioned creating peaks and valleys...

...and finishing strong, or two early principles to apply the thinking that you share in the book, and I think they're they're interconnected. Yes, here. Can you can you expand on this idea of when it comes to creating an optimizing experiences, creating peaks and values and finishing strong? Yeah, sure, so it is a central part of the book. Those two principles are kind of foundational because they really relate to how we remember our experiences. And you know, the book is ultimately about the cognitive science behind find a great customer experience, because what I have found in studying companies that do this well is that they recognize that they're not just in the business of creating great customer experiences. There in the business of creating great customer memories, because I would argue that how people remember their interaction with your business is even more important than the experience itself. You know, you think about the bank, for example, that you've got a client at a bank and maybe that that individual is asked by a family member at, you know, thanksgiving. Hey, you know, I'm in the market for a new wealth manager or a new bank or I'm looking for a mortgage. I remember you told me you do business with, you know, Bank XYZ. What do you think of them? The next thing that's going to come out of your clients mouth there is not going to be based on the experience they had with bank XYZ. It's going to be based on what they remember about that experience and the way our brains are wired, those two things actually can be very different, and that's where the peaks and valleys and finishing strong come in, because the way that are the way that we remember our experiences is not like a continuous streaming video. We remember our experiences as a series of snapshots, and it's not just any snap shot that we remember. The snapshots that we remember are the peaks, the high points in the experience, and that's when the Flash Bolb goes off and we kind of take that picture, as well as the valleys in the experience where the Flash Bolb goes off again, but not in a good way, and we remember you sort of that that that negative aspect. And then, lastly, we remember the final thing that happens to us and that actually exerts a disproportionate influence on our overall perception of the entire experience. And you know, the example I always like to use for people to illustrate peaks and valleys and finishing strong is Disney world. Disney obviously renowned for their customer experience, but if you take a step back and you look rationally at the Disney world experience, you could argue that Disney world is specifically engineered to be hell on earth. Right you are in Orlando. I mean the humidity is two hundred percent, it's a hundred and fifty degrees outside, you're standing in line in that baking sun for hours, and yet people leave Disney and they have fond memories of it and they're eager to go back. And what is really happening there is Disney is managing the peaks in the valleys their imagineers, for example, or making sure that the attractions are so spectacular that it's creating a peak that comes at the end of the interaction and it eclipses all of the negativity of waiting in line. Yes, and so that helps to overshadow it. And so what you walk away with of the memories of those peaks, and that's why people wait rave about their experience at Disney world. So that's the memory shaping aspect of caught of customer experience. And I like this idea of the whole point of, you know, the the the cognitive piece of this and how much of this we could even argue as maybe even neuroscience to a degree, because we're talking different you know, firing off to brain. Chemical is dopamine, for example, and and that's one of the things that you touched on in chapter eleven. You talked about stirring emotion up a little bit and I see there could be some practical insights here for financial brands and for Finn Text because you shared a story around Freddy High Five. And when you share the story about Freddy High Five, the first ten years of this business was the agency world, and so sending emails and the anxiety that goes before you hit that sin button on the email. I don't want to give too...

...much away, but I want to set the stage for some context, give give the dear listener some perspective into Freddy High Five. And what's the back story here of storring ocean, and before I leap into that, I just want to say I completely agree with you that I think the principle around stirring emotion has tremendous relevance in the financial services arena, because think what people get emotional about is their money. Yes, right, I mean it, whether you are helping them to build their nest egg or if they're taking a hit to their nest egg or to their savings. I mean, there's a lot of emotion in money, and so I like that you're focusing on this one because I think it's very relevant in this space. So Freddy, High Five. Freddy is a chimpanze. That's the mascot of mail chimp, which is a service that's dedicated to email marketing for small businesses, and male chimp has been usually successful. They were just recently sold for over ten billion dollars, I think it was, to add to oh my gosh, it's louting me who who it was. They were just sold to a to another organization after being private for quite a while. But into it, they added to it, into it, picked them up for five point seven billion in cash. into it. Thank you. So you know tremendously successful and they had, you know, super fast growth from like nothing to being the premiere provider of small business email marketing services. And there was a guy that worked at mail chimp who used to be on the other side of the fence. He used to be a small business owner and, like you were just referring to, he would send out these mass emails and he said one day that when he used to do that there were so much emotion wrapped up in hitting that send button, because when you're a small business owner and you're sending out thousands of these emails, you're just thinking, oh my gosh, I hope there's not a misspelling, I hope I have in like phrase something in a way that's going to turn people off. There's just a tremendous amount of anxiety and then when you actually do hit the send button, there's this feeling of accomplishment like higher I got it out. And so he said to his mail chim colleagues he was like, you know, back when I did this, I wish that somebody, after I hit send, would come in and just kind of pat me on the back and say good job. And so he came up with this idea that when you send an email through mail, chimp, Freddy, their chimpanzee, pops up on the screen and gives you, it's an animated Jif, and it gives you a high five. And this actually what kind of viral like. People started taking videos and pictures of themselves high fiving their computer screens, you know, with with Freddy, and this was you could look at this and you could say the Freddy High Five serves absolutely no functional purpose, right, no functional purpose at all. Yet what it does is it serves an emotional purpose. Yes, because your customer at that point is primed to experience a set and emotion, a sense of accomplishment and pride at what I've just sent out right. And what male chimp was doing was they were accentuating that, and that helps to create one of those peaks that we were talking about, because a lot about peaks is that they are emotionally charged, whether positive or negative, and so that makes the experience with male chimp to be it makes it enjoyable in the moment and it also makes it more likely that it's going to be remembered fondly in the long run. Yes, and so that's what what the Freddy High Five is all about, and you can think about how that transfers to the financial services arena. I just got a loan from my business and I use it to expand significantly. Well, folks and financial services right when they're focused on the mechanics and the nuts in the bolts, they're thinking I process the loan right, we're done, but they don't think, hey, you know what, I should reach out to that client after they after they close on that big acquisition or after they...

...finished the expansion of that factory and just say hey, congratulations, good for you, because their prime for that emotion and and that's a way to deliver it for them and it's going to reflect positively on the financial institution and into your opening remarks in this conversation. You talked about it's oftentimes it's the very simple, it's the very practical things that we can do to make positive deposits into a consumers trust fund that sits between their ears, and sometimes it takes months, years to make enough deposits to, you know, encourage a behavior one way or another, and sometimes then it can take a minute. So you know, we we just totally deplete that trust fund because of a bad or a negative experience and well, we don't have time to get through all twelve principles. I want to come and wrap up the conversation here and I appreciate the thinking. This has been, you know, great intellectual fencing with you here today. John. What what does it mean, as you wrap up in the book, recovering with style when it comes to experience? Yes, so the point that I make in the book is that even companies that are legendary for delivering tremendous experiences having tremendous loyalty, sometimes they have failures in their customer experience. But what makes them different is that they recognize that they don't need to resign themselves to creating a satisfied customer or creating a vocal brand a tractor, because what they realize is that if you overcorrect on the recovery, what you essentially are doing or creating another peak in the experience. And coincidentally, that peak comes at the end of the interaction because it's at the point of recovery where something has gone wrong in that episode. And so if you knock the cover off the ball on the recovery, you can actually end up with a more loyal customer after you have recovered then what you had before the failure. And and so recovering with style is just about applying some some specific techniques around being empathetic to customers when something has gone wrong, apologizing to them, taking clear, unequivocal ownership for helping them and getting them to a better place, keeping them informed, acting with urgency and executing flawlessly on the recovery. And if you do all of those things and even think of a sort of a nice, you know, kind of Cherry topper that you can put at the end of the interaction, it's a way to turn the to to really flip the script and to get people not to obsess over the negativity of the failure, but to get them to obsess over how great a job you did recovering and making them whole. And and so that's why it's an important principle because, no matter how good you are, sometimes something will go wrong and you just don't want to fold at that point. You know, that's just a call to action to approach that resolution in in a different way. And I love the anecdote that you shared about Ritz Carlton and the Book and the dress. It was one that I connected with and and it was interesting. You know, I speak a lot about the four seasons experience just from my own personal perspective of the world, and my wife and I were talking about this the other day. We've said a lot of four seasons around the world and I never had this thought, but I'm like, we don't remember four seasons the brand, we remember the people and some of them we actually still keep in touch with. Like she literally just text someone from Four Seasons Coasta Rica the other day just to check in. She worked the kids club at four seasons COASTA Rica, who took care of our kids when they were really little, and just a great relationship and we've kept in touch with her over the year. She has kids and she's on a Coasta Rica. We're here in Houston Texas, and it's just this relationship of like you know, her name's Karen. Karen was part of that whole brand experience, but... does come down to the humanity of all of this. I want to end on a very simple no, something practical for the dear listener to take all of the the ideas and the insights that you've shared here. Let's package them up let's get really practical, because all transformation that leads to future growth begins with something small, a simple step that that really helps the move move forward make progress on their own journey. What's a small, simple step that you would recommend the dear listener apply when it comes to creating optimizing experiences at their financial brand? Yes, so I'm going to pick something that I think is especially important and financial services, given that, as an industry, it's not an industry that people trust very much. You know, it's actually I know if you're familiar with the Adelman Trust Barometer. Adelman is a company that does an annual study of trust across industries, and financial services actually came in fifteen out of sixteen in their two thousand and twenty two survey, ahead of only social media firms. And you know, one important thing, I think, to creating trust is showing customers that you advocate for them. And so, as you know, one of the principles in the book is about being an advocate for your customer, and so the idea that I would leave your listeners with is to always think how can you signal to your customer that you have their best interests in mind and that could be as simple as making sure that you never do a cold transfer. You know that when they're on the phone and you another area has to help them, you say hey, you know what, let me do the leg work for you, let me get them on the line. I'll do a quick three way conference call so you don't need to repeat yourself and before I leave you with that individual, I'm going to make sure you're in the right hands and then you'll be all set. That's a very simple way to demonstrate advocacy, just on an individual level and then on a policy level. For people in Fin anchial institutions that are making policy, think about your policies and ask yourself, does this exude advocacy for our customers or does it make it look like we're trying to just line our pockets at their expense? Yes, so advocacy in financial services, I think, is a really powerful tool, given the state of the consumer mind and that space great point about the cold transfer to the warm transfer, the three way, because I've experienced that personally, like working with American Express and American Express travel. They always do that and it sets up at t's up for a really good experience. Conversation because I'm not having this sit there and re explain myself all over again, and it just it reduces that friction, that pain point and places a positive deposit into my own trust fund here. John, this has been a great conversation. If someone wants to continue the conversation, keep learning from you. Obviously there's the book. Where can they get the book and how could they connect with you personally? Sure so, the book is available at all the major retailers and independent stories. You can actually go to the books official website, which is impressed to obsesscom that's impressed, the number two obsessedcom and from there you can learn more about the book as well as buy it from any number of retailers and independent bookstores and it. Folks want to learn more about me and my services, be at speaking or consulting, you can go to my website, John picocom Jo n picoultcom, connect with John Get the book. I've read the book. It's fantastic. There's a ton of practical ideas insides that you can take and I think a lot of it, too, is something that I'm big on speaking about looking outside to grow inside, because there's so many ways that we can learn from other verticals, take some of those best practices and apply them within our own financial brands, within our fintext and we'll all get better together because of that. I know that I've gotten better to today because of our conversation.

John. Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. This has been a lot of fun, man. Thanks, James Robert. I really enjoyed it as always, and until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert. Leigh to get even more practical and proven insights, along with coaching and guidance. This it digital growthcom slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and Fintex until next time, be well and do good.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (234)