Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

168) #ExponentialInsights - Ditching Automation for the Human Touch in Finance


Many companies spend so much time and money bringing in new customers, but overlook how quickly they’re losing them. And the reason? They’ve lost the human touch in favor of automation.

I speak with Joey Coleman, Chief Experience Composer at Design Symphony, about retaining your customers and where businesses go wrong.

Join us as we discuss:

- The inspiration behind Joey’s first book

- Taking a human to human approach to growth

- The difference between customer experience & customer service

- How to never lose a customer again

- The next best step for the audience

Check out these resources mentioned during the episode:

- Never Lose a Customer Again by Joey Coleman



You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth onApple Podcasts , onSpotify , orhere.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

We need to have conversations with the customer about what they're trying to achieve and we need to track that in factored in so that we can measure our progress against those goals. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Laigh, a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Laigh and welcome to the one hundred and sixty eight episode of the banking on digital growth podcasts. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Joey Coleman to the show. Joey is an award winning speaker and he helps companies keep their customers with his first one hundred days methodology, as he improves the customer experience and retention of organizations around the world like whirlpool, Volkswagen, Australia, Zappos in the World Bank, just to name a few. And today we are going to be discussing Joey's Wall Street Journal number two best selling book, never lose a customer again, to educate and empower you, the dear listener, to do just that. Welcome to the show, Joey. It is so good to have you on today. James Robert, it is my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Before we get into talking your book and never lose a customer again, what is going well for you? What's positive in your life? We always like to get started here on a positive note. Personally, professionally, it's always your pick. Oh, I you know, see things are so positive and you know I'm definitely a glass halpful kind of guy. Couple things. I'm really excited I've just started in earnest. I'm probably waist deep at this point in writing my next book. Super excited about that on the professional front. Additionally, on the professional front, live speaking events are finally coming back after they are your hiatus. So excited to be back on stages and being in front of audiences. is which is something that I love to do. On the family front, everybody's happy, everybody's healthy. We've got an epic trip planned here next week. Actually, my wife and I arguing a bucket list trip and going to Antarctica, which has been on both of our bucket list since we were in about second grade and found out that Antarctica was a continent. So super excited about that. So there's lots of good things here as we start off the new year. There is a lot of good things. You have the book number two that you're writing, you have speaking coming back and there's a whole different level of energy when you're on the stage in real life, and then an Arctica. I'd love to hear the follow up to that in the lessons that you get to take away. So it is a bucket list item for sure. Let's get into book number one here. Never lose a customer again. Why write this book in the first place? What what was the inspiration here for you, Jims Chobert, I was running a business that was all about marketing and advertising and branding, and our job was to draw attention to the brands that we worked with. You get people to come to their door to get them to sign up, to use their product, to buy their service, whatever it may be. And what I realized is we were really good at that, but it wasn't moving the dial the way I wanted it to. What I mean by that is I would talk to clients, you know, three months after the campaign had run, four months after the campaign had run, and I'd say look here, all the results, look at how many, you know, New People we had signed up, and they'd be like yeah, but our bottom line hasn't changed that much. And I got curious and what I realized is as quickly as people were coming in the front door, they were running out the back.

Most businesses are hemorrhaging customers and they don't realize it, and I'll confessed I didn't realize it is somebody was helping people drive new business and it led me on an epic journey to figure out why does this happen and what can we do to stop it? And once I had figured that out and kind of run the laboratory within my own business of the consulting clients I was working with, I started speaking on the topic. People resonated with the topic. They started to apply the things I talked about in my keynotes and workshops to their business and have success and share it with me. And finally I was like, you know what, I need to put this in a book because as much as I love being on stage, I will never have the opportunity to be on every stage in the world, whereas, as you well know, having written a fantastic book, a book allows you a much broader reach and much more global reach and it allows people to really dive deep into the content. You know, the audiobook version of my book is eight plus hours long. Right, no one's going to sit in the room and listen to an eighthour speech, right, and so it allowed me to hopefully share everything I knew up until that point about customer experience and customer retention in a way that would serve as a playbook for the people that we're reading it. I appreciate that because, you know, you go down this journey, like you said, and you really you learn so much and then you want to share everything that you know with the world to educate them, to empower them. And I'm curious what it comes to banking, and you wrote about this to open up the book, and we see this in baking they're really two sides to growth. There's the bee to see on what we would call the retail side of banking. There's the be tob on the S and B or the commercial side. But you're recommending a different approach here, which is h to age or human to human. Why is that? Why must we transform our thinking beyond thinking be to be or be Toc but really think H to age? Well, I think at the end of the day, humans have a tendency to get lost in definitions and silos. It's kind of the nature of the human condition. We we are tribal by nature. We try to say, Oh, we want more people that look like us, or more people that look like this or more people that act in this way. And is a result, what I found is lots of the conversations I was having with clients, as they say, Oh, Jo, you don't understand. It's we're be to be, or so you don't understand, we're be TOC and I'm like, I'm not sure that you understand. Yeah, how much you're hiding behind that acronym. At the end of the day, the person you're selling to, the people that you're serving, are humans, and what we know is across all cultures, across all genders, across all races, you know, socioeconomic status, whatever criteria that we might use to segment our audience or segment our customer our prospect based there are some underlying themes that are consistent across the human condition and the more we can tap into those, I think, the greater success that we will have. You know, it's interestingly mentioned banking. The first thing that really triggered my whole idea that we had a hundred days to get this right was a banking study I read. Now, I know most of your listeners are probably not sitting at home reading banking studies, even though they work in banking. Right. This gives you an idea as to what my social life was like at the time. But I was reading the study and I found that thirty two percent of new bank customers who open the bank account. This is on the the individual side right, individual consumers will close that account within a year. And, James Robert, I thought to myself, if bankers people who work with numbers all day every day, people who understand the value of lifetime value, people who have built in fee structures and continuing relationship structures and interest rates that help them across the board... their business are losing a third of their people every year. This is devastating. What the research also found is that half of those people that leave will leave in the first one hundred days. That got my attention. Will consider the fact that you touched on this to I think it was page sixteen, if my memory serves correct, but you you literally hit on the fact that the average cost of acquisition is anywhere between two to three hundred dollars and that, once again, that's on just the the the consumer side. On the commercial front it can be upwards, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. But we're spinning all of this money to bring them in, but yet we're then losing them almost sometimes as fast, if that faster, than we're acquiring them on the other side of the equation. Where's the problem? Is this a customer experience problem? Is this a customer service problem? I think it's important because you're coming back to what you mentioned before, this idea of definitions. I think we sometimes get confused even around is experience is a service. Before we go deeper into this, what is the difference between the two? Between customer experience and customer service, and how does this play into this idea of retention and never losing a customer again? I love that question. You're so right, then, distinction between the words we use and the meaning we attach to them is so important in every area of our lives. I understand why people have a tendency to interchange the phrases customer service and customer experience and they use them, you know, interchangeably. I think that's a problem. See, I define customer service as the assistance and advice that a company provides to people who buy or use its products or services, where as customer experience is how a customer perceives all of their interactions with the company. So, if you want to shorthand to it, customer service is a reactive behavior. Something happens, something goes wrong, the customer says, I need help, I don't like this. What we do right, that's customer service. When we're thinking about what are all the things we want the customer to feel, how are we going to design these interactions? How are we going to design these communications? How are we going to deliver them in a way that maximizes their impact? And this conscious and conscientious of the timing. That's customer experience. That's a proactive behavior. I agree with you because experiences we've defined it or well defined systems and processes that have been number one, strategically thought out, number two applied. I think the secret here, particularly and I digital world, is number three, optimized over a period of time, resulting in one of two things. Either a positive emotion that makes me feel really, really good, hits me of some dopamine, or be a negative emotion that says, Hey, let's never ever do that again because it hurt. I want to get your take on this because this idea of customer experience has been a big topic of conversation in the banking world of the past two years. What they commonly held belief about customer experience, maybe at a macro level, or even if you want to apply it to the banking space, what's a commonly held belief about customer experiences that others might have that you would disagree with? Well, one of the things that I think, and let and let's use. I'm an evidence faced guy. I'm a big believer that if you want to have an opinion, that's fine, but I'm more interested in your opinion if it is grounded in evidence. That could be the recovering attorney and me coming out. You know, I'm not exactly sure what that is, but let's use an example specific from the banking world.

When ATM's were first rolled out in the banking world, most of the punits, most of the expert said, this is the death of the teller. You will never have an in person interaction again. All of your tellers will become unemployed. It will be miserable. We will be robots. Getting money from robots attached to a wall. Is Horrible. But here's the facts. There was not a decline in the number of tellers. There was actually an increase in the number of tellers. Number one, number two. What happened is customers started dealing with the tellers for the stuff that the tellers were excited to deal with. They're not excited to come in and cash a check, they're not excited to take a deposit, they're not excited to break your hundred dollar bill into five S. they're excited to help you figure out a new line of credit. They're excited to help you do a wire transfer. Maybe they're excited to help you move things around and think about your finances more or holistically. So the reality is there is this belief, I think, in the world that it should be all about the digitization. One of the reasons why I love your work is because I know that you see digital as being hugely important, critical, vital, but not to the exclusion of human yeah, and that, I think, is one of the biggest misconceptions in the customer experience space today. It's got to be automated, it's got to be digitized, yes, if we're serving convenience, but if we're serving personal connection, we've got to be really careful how much we over index on the automatic automation and the electronification and the digitization, because what happens is we're taking the personal touch out of it, and that's what makes people stay. There's no one in a bank today, there is no one in a bank today that is staying because of your elimination of screens on your ATM to make it faster to get to getting their cash. That was that something you want to work on? Absolutely. Are we constantly working to optimize the experience? Absolutely. The reason they're staying is because they feel at some level that they matter to you. And the second they don't feel that that is the second they're walking across town or walking across the street in most jurisdictions, to another bank. Yes, in you, this idea of automation is one that I think about, I ponder on, because it's so easy to want to automate everything that has a cost, that has an expense associated. And in the back of my mind is he sharp founder of Four Seasons, had a phrase automate the predictable so that we can humanize the exceptional. It's a great analogy of what you're talking about, the the ATM here, which is now become the mobile device. All of that did, whether it was the ATM, whether it's the mobile device, the APP, it's that's the technology piece. The technology took away the transaction and the in that now empowers us as brands to put the transformation of people over the transaction of dollars and sense, because it's the transaction that's what gets commoditized at the end of the day. And so let's dive deep here, because one of the things that I love about never lose a customer again and you're thinking, is it's so practical, it's so relevant, it's not just pie in the sky. See, you know theory. It's hey, here are eight steps. Follow these eight steps and maybe if you just do a couple of them you'll be way better off than you were before. Maybe if you just do two or three, but if you follow...

...a then you will never lose a customer again. So let's dive into these eight steps that can help reduce churn, because I know one of the things that you wrote about was was reducing churn and in increasing retention is one of the big competitive advantage, particularly for those brands that can get it right in the first one hundred days. So let's break down these eight phases. What is number one? What do we have to do first? Once we acquire a new customer, once they they get the loan, they open the account, what happens next? Well, What's interesting is phase one actually happens right before that, right before they come in the door. Phase One's the assess phase. This is one of perspective. Customer is considering whether or not they want to do business with us. Now here's this thing, and I say this respectfully to all your listeners, who I know are really doing their best, nor committed to providing great experiences. Otherwise they wouldn't be listening to this show. You think that you stand out in the crowd. You think that your approach is different. The problem is I don't get the chance to get into a conversation with you and actually learn how you're different in the assess phase. In the assess phase, I'm checking out your website, I'm checking out your marketing materials, I'm seeing what your social profiles have to say, I'm talking to people that might be existing customers of yours and the things that you think really stand out. Our APP is absolutely fantastic. Jane, you should really see it. That's not what people are talking about. What they're talking about is, yeah, I deposited to check that I had from them. I'm a small business owner, and they held it for ten days before they cleared it. Or I was running low on payroll and I went to my personal banker and explained that I wasn't going to be able to make payroll Friday but I could make it on Tuesday, and he helped me get the line of a credit extended so that I could hit payroll on Friday and then I hooked them up on Tuesday and now we've been best friends ever since and we're working together. Those are the things that stand out, those are the stories that connect. The problem is most of our marketing materials is we've got it APP, we've got better interest rates, we've got free checking. You can use any ATM without paying additional fees from us. All the banks are saying the same thing, and yet we think that that's different. It's not. Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming. The good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin tax who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. Visit Digital growthcom slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show. I call this the laundry list of look alike product features and you can just go down and we do this, we do this diagnostic work and then you can comparatively bench mark how you're positioning in the in the market place, number one in the number two. I think it's interesting from our research. We found that the average consumer looks at between eight to ten different resources of information in this period of assessment, or what we would could call consideration. So they're assessing. Then what happens next? In Phase Two? Phase to, they admit that they have a problem or a need that they believe you can help them with. This is day one of the first hundred days. They sign up for a bank account, they come in and make an initial deposit, they sign up for a credit card,...

...whatever it is, that first act where they transition from prospect to customer and the relationship actually begins. So they admit, I have a problem, I need some help, I apply, I open an account. That takes us two. Phase three. How can financial brands help in phase three? What is phase three? Well, phase three is the affirm phace and I will tell you across all industries, not just financial services, this is the phase that gets overlooked the most. M almost everybody listening, I would imagine, has heard the phrase buyers remorse. We're familiar with this concept, Ie that when you make a purchase, immediately after that purchase is made and the dopamine that's flooded the brain when you made the purchase recedes those feelings enjoy you a forty and excitement, or replaced by feelings of fear and doubt and uncertainty. What if this doesn't work out the way I thought it was going to be? I made a mistake? Will I be able to get my money back? Is this going to be okay? Our customers are in that state of doubt. Right after the purchase, we're back celebrating. We landed the new deal, where high five and bills are being wrong. Well, we made this month's quota, whatever it may be. Meanwhile, at our customers homer, at their office, they're doubting the decision that they just made to work with us. Yes, what every business on the planet can do is recognize that every customer, with every purchase, experiences some level of buyers remorse. Scientifically prove it. What we do about that knowledge is what matters. Yes, now how do we act? What can we do to reaffirm the decision? What can we do to commend them on their decision? What can we do to quickly get ready to deliver so that we can show them, yeah, you actually made the right choice. Your assessment process was good, your admission was okay, we're going to take care of you. That's how you affirm their decision. Well, I actually I actually have this bookmarked in the book here, which was page one hundred and twenty, because it was your story of how you went through a period of buyers remorse when you started writing the book. I did what was that story, because I think it's one that it's I could relate to personally having gone through this experience. But it's practical. If you're even making me think about like buying a home or getting a business loan, that's a major commitment right there that we have to come back in affirm these decisions. What happened to you in this situation? So I happened to me is I decided that I wanted to write a book. I've been giving enough speeches to the point where it was starting to be blunt, to be embarrassing to come off the stage and at people say can I get your book? Where's your book, and I didn't have one. Yeah, and to the point I made earlier, I started to realize that I was never going to get a chance to actually speak to everybody that I wanted to share this message with. So writing a book I thought would be a good way to do that. So I had an idea. The idea had been proven in the market place. The idea had been proven the standing ovations from audiences. This should be a pretty much clear winner. We should be good to go. And I started writing the book and I went and I got a deal with a major publisher with a big advance. Everybody was on board with this idea and I started writing and I kept writing and suddenly I began to doubt mm whether I should be writing this book. Who Am I to write this book? I I know I've been I've literally proven this in dozens of industries across fifteen years. But if I waited five more years, there probably a dozen more industries and I'd had even more prooven, even more evidence. But have I done enough research? Am I the right writer? Should I be working with other editors? I've already got three editors involved in the project. Would it be better if I had a fourth? All of these thoughts are swirling in my mind. And here's the kicker about your...

...customers. Ninety Times at ninety, nine times out of a hundred, they're not going to tell you yes, they're having doubts. See everybody wants to talk about the customers who flips the table over and goes this is ridiculous, I'm taking my business elsewhere. That's the exception to the rule. On the cover of my book there's a balloon and the balloon is floating away off the top of the cover. And the reason for the balloon is not because I'm just childlike and I thought it would be fun to have a balloon. It's because this is how most customers leave. They slowly drift away and we don't even realize. Have you ever been remember a time as a kid? Or maybe if you have kids, they have a balloon in it slips away and then they're trying to grab word or you're trying to grab for it and it's just out of reach and it's too late. This is how most customers leave. So what I want to do is spend less time thinking about well, how do we tie that balloon to my hate, because that's the typical response, especially in banking. Sorry, friends, got to get a little real here. Typical response in banking is we are going to make it so hard for you to leave that you're never going to be able to leave, even if you want to leave. Yes, it's funny. We got to talk of we joke about that. It particularly in the crediting in space. Like, once you get it, it's kind of like the Mafia. Once you're in, you never get out, which brings us to point number for right here. What happens in point number four? So that we don't have to necessarily tie them in, we give them a safe place. This is where we really start to deliver on the experience. These are the first moments of truths. Right now, we've had experience all the way along, but this is where everybody's expecting a remarkable experience, and that is in phase for the activate phase. This is the first real moment of truth. Okay, now that I've signed up, are you going to deliver on the things you promised? This is the first day on the job, this is the first time that I actually use my credit card, this is the first time I write a check, this is the first time that I tried to do a wire transfer, an ah or whatever it may be. In these moments of truth, are all the things that you promised me leading up, all the things that you're marketing material said would be so easy. Are you actually delivering. Now, the reality is most businesses are actually pretty good in the activate phase. We're actually pretty good with that first interaction. But then we go to phase five, the acclimate face. What's the objective in phase five? Like like, I get activate, but acclimate, that's another, well, I would call optimization opportunity. Here in the banking space, absolutely that. The objective in the acclimate phase is very simple. Hold your customer's hand until they don't need it held anymore. MMM, you don't decide when to stop holding their hand. Their actions, their behaviors, their emotional state dictates when you should stop holding their hand. And so what you want to do in the aclimate phases make sure that they're able to do all the things that they want to do. Now, some people will say to me, but show we we've got this little prompt on our APP that if they click on here, they can go to the Faqus and read and answer. Okay, folks, I understand that, but no one gets excited about going to the fake us, no one, except the people that write fa use. Those are the only people that get excited. So like Oh, somebody seeing my work, this is exciting. No one gets excited when they can't do the obvious things. So what about, as part of that activate and acclimate phase, saying, in our experience, people who have gotten a small business Alan like you, people who've gotten a mortgage, like you, people who signed up for a credit card, like you, people have signed up for a checking account, like you, whatever the product is, doesn't matter, you say,...

...typically in the first thirty days there are five things they're going to try to do, eight things, are going to try to do, three things, are going to try to do, whatever it is, whatever you believe. Let me show you how to do those things. And then, guess what? You come back a week later and you say, Hey, it appears you're trying to do one of those things. Do you remember how to do it? If not, press here and I will show you how to do it, or call me here and I will remind you how to do it. That is taking a proactive effort at acclimating your customers to your way of doing business. In a study that we conducted, we we conduct, you know, thousands of what we call digital secret shopping studies for financial brands and for Finn Text we actually found that chime the neo bank sins around twenty two twenty five messages email communication within the first forty five days. Now, general logic would have you say, well, that's a deluge. There they're spamming me. But then the follow up to the study at day sixty is part of the exits survey. We ask well, how did that make you feel? In eighty eighty five percent of people said it made me feel really good because all they were simply trying to do was help me, and I'm going to use your word, they were trying to help me acclimate to my new account. And so I think it's a very practical example here. What happens next? What's cool. Let's move on to phase number six. What's going on here? Phase six is the accomplished phase. Phase six is when you're a customer achieves the goal they originally had way back in phase one when they were a prospect, assessing whether or not they want to do business with you. Now here's the interesting thing. The accomplished phase could happen in thirty days, it might happen in ten years. MMM, we don't know. Couple things. Number one, we need to have conversations with the customer about what they're trying to achieve and we need to track that in, factored in so that we can measure our progress against those goals. Number two, we need to acknowledge the fact that customers are going to change their minds. Yes, life circumstances are going to happen, their goals are going to move. Now what normally happens in the typical business is we get irritated by that. We say they didn't say they wanted this when we started together. Well, welcome to marriage, welcome to raising children, welcome to life. The goal post is always moving, the finish line is always moving. We can dig our heels in the sand and fight against that and be irritated about that, or we can acknowledge that that is part of the human condition and use it as a springboard for increased conversation with our customer. Yes, by the way, that human to human connection where we're saying. You know, James Robert, when we started working together, you said your main goal was to get a tenzero dollar line of credit. We got that in place for you. The business has been using it. You've been using it, using it up, paying it down, using it up, paying it down. We've been going back and forth. What new goals do you have now, that you have that in place that maybe you didn't have back then, and not just is tenzero dollars enough? See, the problem is we presume that we know what the next goal is. The next goal is more credit. The next goal is a bigger line. The next goals for more credit cards. The next goal is another mortgage. No, that's our next goal, and this is exact goal. Is Different, and this is exactly why I am so big on building in coaching as part of the overall experience here, so that we can sit down have these conversations, whether it be on a quarterly basis, a biannual basis or at least sent the minium just once a year, and we can ask two very simple questions. What's been going well for you and how would you like to continue to grow? What are your goals, what...

...are your roadblocks and what are your opportunities? And then let's put that plan, let's put those next best steps together so that you can continue to move forward on your own journey with confidence. Because that then brings us to the the the seventh phase here in your model. What is that? Joey face? Seven, real and real quick, James Cheberd if I made before I get in face seven. I love those two questions. I might suggest people consider a third. Go ahead, and the third question is what should we stop doing? MMM, that we've been doing? There's got to be something that we've been doing that you don't like. What is that? And you got to give us to why do I say too? Because the first one they give you is going to be a throwaway. Well, if you know, you could probably stop sending me so much stuff in the mail. It's they're gonna say something, to say something, because most humans, again going back to the human condition, if asked a question, want to give an answer. We don't feel comfortable saying I don't know, so we want to say something. That's why we press for a second. Well, what's the second one? You know now that you mention it. HMM. Every time I come in here there's not enough parking outside, so I have to park in the lot down the street, and the lot down the street charges me five dollars to park. So when I want to come to do business with you guys, it's kind of annoying because it costs me money. This customer may not realize that you validate parking at that Hersh this customer may not realize that you've already thought through that, but guess what, that was a part of your acclimate. Or maybe it was, but that was so long ago that they forgot that was even an option. or You could say, you know what, that's ridiculous. How about this? Every time you come in, you just look at me and wave and I'll go in and give you, I'll walk out and I'll give you the validation sticker. Or, better yet, maybe we should just put the validation stickers out on front, at the teller windows. Yes, hidden behind the teller window, but what if somebody takes to validations at well, then they take two and they feel awesome about your bank. They think you're great and they can, you know, have meet their friend for lunch and give one to their friend as well. And now, guess what, you were just part of their lunch conversation. We're talking about a DASHAN. Oh, they're going to be talking about it. The moral of the story here is we want to ask what we can continue to do. We want to get excited about what's going forward, but we also want to look for opportunities to eliminate anything that is a friction point, which takes us to face seven. And the reason it takes its face seven is because people who reach phase seven are the kind of people who have clearly stated what they like and what they dislike, and that is your adoptor's face. Seven is the adopt phase, when the customer comes loyal to you and only you. They're committed. They're not going to go to your competition, they're not going to chase a half percentage point somewhere else. They are all body into your way of doing things. And if, and only if, we get them to the adopt phase, we've moved them through all these other phases, do we reach phase number eight, the advocate phase, where they become a zealous, raving fan, singing your praises far and wide. If we do all of these phases right, we get the chance to rinse and repeat. Now here's the pro tip for the folks, and if anybody listening is already had the chance to read the book or had the chance to hear me speak, you might be familiar with here's where it really gets interesting. Every time you introduce a new product or a new service to an existing customer, no matter where they are in the eight phases, they go back to phase one. Wait a second, Joey. I thought my advocate will buy anything that I offer. Well, maybe, and they're more inclined to buy anything you offer than anybody else, but they still will go back and assess of it's right for them. They still will admit that it's right for them. They'll still move into that buyer's remorse, a firm stage where they doubt that the new products for them. They'll still want to be activated. When you actually deliver on that new product or service, they'll still have to be acclimated. Even though they don't this other side of your business, this... product or shirt, this is going to feel like a foreign country to them. If we rinse and repeat, that's how we create the flywheel of customers staying and growing in their depth of relationship with us. I love that it's this idea of rints, repeat, fly will, because once the fly will starts, than it can con continue to been faster and faster and faster. In this idea of advocates, it's what we would call the are of ratings, reviews, referrals. To me, it is one of the greatest blue ocean opportunities because we fail to ask. We felt to ask or to activate the advocates, because the most trusted marketing channel, I don't care how good your marketing is, the most trusted marketing channel on planet Earth is the trusted referral from a friend or family member, because we already know that person, we already like that person, we already trust that person and it just shortcuts the entire journey. Joey, this has been a fantastic conversation. A lot of practical ideas and insights the financial brand can think about they can apply to maximize their future growth. I always like to end on just a very small thing that they can do next, because obviously there's a lot. There's eight steps that we talk through, but all change that leads to future growth begins with a small, simple step, something easy. What would your next best step be that they can apply to move forward on their journey with confidence? One thing. So here's something that I will offer that I know works. It is worked hundreds of thousands of times. We've seen it have remarkable, remarkable results. It's gonna seem really easy, which means that a lot of you listening are going to think, yeah, I'm not going to do it, but the ones who do it it will move the dial, and that is this. Make a list of your ten best customers. You define the word best in whatever way works for you, I don't care. Get out a piece of paper and a pen and write each of them a handwritten note thanking them for their business, explaining two or three things that you love about the relationship and letting them know that you are not only excited to work with them, but you are thankful for the opportunity to work with them. And take those and put them in the mail. Wow, that alone, in most businesses, will result in measurable increase in revenue. Just those ten people, ten little thank you notes. Doesn't have to be long. Four, five, six sentences is fine. Letting people know and I think it brings us full circle, if I may, on this whole conversation of digital in an increasingly digital world, humans are dying for analog proof that they matter. If everyone listening, if I would ask you, in the last two years, have you received a handwritten thank you know? Go ahead, I can't see you, but raise your hand if this supplies to you. So people are raising their hands. I hear the sound of hands going up all around the world people listening to the PODCAST. All Right, you've got handwritten thank you. Let me ask this question. Do you still have it? If you still have it, keep your hand up now. What you all can't see is the majority of hands are still up. James Robert is actually holding a thank you note up right now. That was on his desk. He still has it. Here's the question. Why. Why do you still have it? You read the note, you know who it's from. When I asked you about it, it triggered the memory immediately. It was right there for most people to thank you note as being in their house or in...

...their officer at least in their possession for months and they still have it. I have them on my desk, I have them in my bag. I keep them because it is a physical representation for me of a relationship exactly. And in this day and age we are dying for proof that we matter. We Are Dying for proof that we have relationships. We Are Dying for proof that other people find the value that we are giving in the world to be meaningful enough that they would sit down long hand, write out a note and put it in the mail. We must make the intangible tangible in this digital world, and that is a way that we can rise above all over the noise, the commoditization, the hype, and get back to what matters, which is helping guide people beyond their financial stress towards a bigger, better, brighter future. Joey, this has been a great conversation. What's the best way for someone to connect with you, to continue the conversation that we started, just to reach out say hello? Where can the grab a copy of the book too? So the best place to grab a copy of the book is anywhere that you like to get your books. There's a hardcover version, there's an Ebook, there's an audio book that I narrate. So if you've enjoyed this conversation, I'll read the book to you in your ears right. So you can find the book pretty much everywhere you want. It's called never lose a customer again. The best way to get in contact with me through my website, Joey Colemancom. That's Joey, like a baby kangaroo or a five year old. You know, Coleman, cool em an, like the camping equipment, but no relation Joey Colemancom. And if you've really enjoyed the conversation and you're a podcast listener, which I know you are, you might even want to come over and listen to the podcast that I have with my good cohost and Gingis. It's called the experience this show. It's a weekly dose of customer experience to light that is designed to give you inspiration, designed to give you examples, designed to give you little takeaways that you can apply in your business. I believe there are three types of speakers, James Robert. I think they're speakers who make you think differently, speakers to make you feel differently and speakers who make you act differently. And while I certainly want any audience or anybody who's been listening today and kind enough to give us their time to think and to feel differently, if you don't act differently, James Robert doesn't invite me back on the show and I'd love to come back on the show. So take this stuff, put it into action, let him know what you did and best of luck creating remarkable experiences in the first hundred days and beyond. Joey. Thank you so much. Go get a pin, go get a piece of paper, get some thank you notes, get those ten notes out put this insight into action. That's how you move forward and make progress on your own journey of growth. Joey, thanks again for joining me for another episode of banking on growth. As always, and until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Leigh. To get even more practical and prove an insights, along with coaching and guidance. This it digital growthcom slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and Finn Tax until next time, be well and do good.

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