Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

180) #ExponentialInsights - The Year of Small Giants: Valuing Organizational Excellence over Scale


A note for employees that have worked for an organization for an extended period of time: Customers don’t have the same expertise as you do within your company.

They don’t know the latest deals, discounts, or bundling that you know off the top of your head. It’s why it’s so important to engage with customers. Otherwise you’re missing out on the opportunity to provide additional solutions your consumers aren't aware they need.

And Patti Mara, Author of UpSolutions - Turning Your Teams into Heroes and Customers into Raving Fans at Maranet Inc., is here to share her knowledge of customer excellence.

Join us as we discuss:

  • Launching a book & focusing on helping the customer
  • Expansion opportunities for the deal listeners
  • What it means to up-solution
  • The role internal teams play & intrapreneurship    

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Laigh, a podcast that empowers financial brand, marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Lay interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Lay, and welcome to the one hundred and eighty episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Pattymera to the show. Patty is the author of up solutions, turning your teams into heroes and customers into raving fans, where she shares a simple formula that will empower your financial brand or Fintech to increase profit, team engagement and customer loyalty. Welcome to the show, Patty. It is so good to share time with you today. Well, thank you so much, James Robert. I'm looking forward to our conversation. I am too, and before we talk up solutions, what's going well for you? What is good personally or professionally? It is always your pick to get started here. Well, great, well, it's interesting. I I think we're in, you know, certainly we're in challenging times. You know, in North America the last two years have been crisis after crisis, after crisis after crisis, and so I'd say we're in challenging times and I think we're in the biggest opportunity of our lifetime. Yes, and for paying attention to you know, what's our market? What do they need now, because it's changed in the last two years. How do you create value for them? I think we have the opportunity. Right now is the most exciting and I think the the the most important time to future for your business than we've had in will experience in our lifetime. So what's going for me right now? I, you know, launched a team out of I used to travel a lot for you know, team training and working with BIS entrepreneurs all over North America mostly, and it's all a shifted into working virtually and that caused me to create programs that I'm loving and are just starting to explode. So yes, I think times it really is and I think it's this idea of it's they are challenging times, for sure, we can't deny that, but I think a lot of it is we have to be aware of just how we're feeling, how we're processing this, and be as positive as we can possibly be, because we can be the light and someone else's darkness. We can be the rock that someone else can cling to, and that's what this idea of leadership is all about. I mean, I even think about banking and financial services and all of the challenges that we've seen here and and let's get into it. I mean because this, this is this is why you wrote this book up solutions. It's a great read and and I read a lot, but as a fellow author, I always like to ask why, why write this book in the first place, because I know how challenging it is, number one, to write the book in the number two, you launched this at a very interesting time as well. Well. The interesting time that it was launched wasn't planned. No, of course not. We're talking, you know, the book was published in the end of January, two thousand and twenty and then, of course, March was first. The whole market changed. Well, I'm and I'm right there with you, because my book published, was scheduled to publish in April of two thousand and twenty, and we're we are literally having this conversation because of the pandemic. Like this podcast, has been a gift that has come out of the pandemics. Will write. Why write the book? To begin with, I love the question because I would say... was a ten year labor of love. I when I talk about who I am and what I do, I I would say I'm a passionate advocate for locally owned businesses. I think that the cornerstone of communities. They bring diversity and interest and to a large extent they're being displaced. Yes, Amazon, Walmart right their national chains and and you know, listen, I do a I work with a lot of brick and mortar businesses and I think we're in a renaissance. I think brick and mortar are going to become more relevant and to that end, you're watching Amazon open brick and mortar stores. You're watching brands that were launched completely online, virtually like all birds, opening brick and mortar stores right so there's that still that connection, that touch and feel. Yep, so I think we're in a renaissance. And yet how they need to operate is very different. MMM, right. Every business needs to have a hybrid consumers. If you're you know, your audience are banks, but if your business is is b Toc Right, and you're the consumer or customer marketplace, then most customers today want to shot from home and have it delivered to our home. And you know, even if you're a passionate advocate for locally owned businesses, your no, nobody wants to drive around to see what you've got. Yes, so businesses need to be and yet they're the lifeblood of our community. I think they're going to be what brings us out of this. Yes, they're healthy businesses well, and that, to me, is why this is such an important conversation, because to your point about small, locally owned business being the backbone of the community, the backbone of the local economy, community financial brands, whether it be a community bank or a credit union, it goes hand in hand together and particularly here in the United States, we see who really stepped up to help vide support through, for example, like the PPP lending program it was the community institutions. And you know, I often like in financial services to healthcare because in fact the research will show a person's physical well being and their mental wellbeing is closely correlated to their their financial wellbeing. And one of the stories that you opened up the book with it really resonated with me. It was it was a story about Chris. Chris is a pharmacist and I appreciated the story because I often teach and coach financial brands to think about writing prescriptions to cure people's financial pain points and and when I read the story about Chris, it is sounded like there might be something similar here that I see with financial brands what I call a product first problem. You know to this with chriss story. Can you expand upon where Chris was thinking about the product versus the the solution or, back to your previous point, the value being created here? If we could dig into that, I think that would be really interesting. Okay, good, I love it. It's actually it's one of the pieces I find that most business owners, I like to say they're playing the wrong game of business right, most business owners and teams, and that's crucial teams, because if your team doesn't know what you're really selling, the what your business really is. They're not delivering it. Yes, your business is the value you create to your market place. Why do customers choose you? HMM, why do they come back and and you almost flip it. Your your what you sell, your products and services, are the vehicle, yes, or how you create that value? Right, it's like if you sell TV's, people, why are people buying TV's? And what's your niche that you do that nobody else does? Are you do better than everyone else? If you don't do that, then you're going to be commoditized. It'll all be about price.

Right. If you help people live better lives, make better decisions have better outcomes, then that's really the magic in your business. And that's Chris has. You know Chris, Chris Corne Elison, and and he's a he's a brilliant pharmacist. So one of his pieces he was he's passionate about his patients. And you know, there are a lot of disease states that people get medication for. Let's take diabetes, because it's a great example. And if you're on medication for diabetes, then you're going to be dealing with nutrient depletion. There are certain nutrients that these medications cause me depleted in your body. You must supplement. Yep, but if the pharmacy team who are actually having the contact with the patients every day, if they're not saying, well, you miss a Smith, I notice you're on this medication and this medication causes your body to to need more calcium and and the farmer is recommend this. Can I give you more information on this? MMM, right, so, but if they're not doing that, they're ripping people off. Yes, they're not creating outcomes. And here's the other piece. Most, very few people like to sell. Even salespeople don't really like to sell. There's just something they get out of doing it. Right, you have to have a good structure to do so. But people love to be problem solvers and create value. Yes, well, that's what you turn yes, problem solvers. Yeah, and that's one of the big things that I recommend for financial brands. Help first, sell second, because, back to your point, helping, it's so easy. It's human nature. We tend to what to help, but then when we're asked to sell, there's some type of like magical shield that POPs up on both sides. Of that conversation and it gets a little bit uncomfortable. I would come back to your point of the the pharmacist here, because you mentioned something about like as business owners, as entrepreneurs, even as financial brand of leaders. It's a matter of perception and I see this trickling down from the top all the way to the front line. When we do a diagnostic study for a financial brand, one of the very first questions that we ask, and we typically get a good sampling of just their internal team members, starting at the top and then work our way down, why should I open an account at your bank or your Credit Union? Ninety Ninety five percent of the responses are because we have these great products, we have these amazing services and we have some really, really good rates. And I'm like, yeah, everyone else just said the exact same thing. Tell me something that matters to me, what's important to me, and that's where I see is one of the biggest opportunities to transform that thinking beyond the product back into cures, prescriptions, paying gain all of that that stuff there, and so I'm curious. You note in the book that customers are a gold mine for independent businesses, independent firms and independent I see community banks. I see credit unions and and you experience this firsthand when you are working at a small book store in the Mall to put your way through college. You help to double the revenue there. What happened to make that exponential growth a reality? How did customers play into this? Because now we're moving from internal to external? Yes, well, and the by line of my book is turning team and take teams into heroes and customers into raving fans. M If you want raving fans, your team's need to be set up to win. Beautiful. How are they heroes? How are they? Your brand ambassadors? You need to know what the brand is, which is that value? But then how are they and are they set up to be your brand ambassadors? And when you talked about James Robert, is my origin story, if you will,...

...and and it was a nondescript it was a chain book store in them all and but I had a really good manager and the manager was anyone who walks and it was simple, very, very simple. Anyone who walks in the store, you're to stop what you're doing and say thank you, know, welcome. Can I help you find anything? Are you looking for anything? If they want simple stuff. You, simple stuff, right, simple, engaging. Yeah, if if they wanted something specific, you took them to the section, you put the book in their hand again. Not, it's a all three right. Yeah. And and then the other piece was if we didn't have it, we look to see is there's something else we could recommend or could we order it? And we weren't allowed to. This was a small book store, but I have to tell you, I would say about twenty percent of our sales for special order because we did right, right, so when it cost. We had a sign on the backstock room door that whenever's going on in your life, is important, but leave it back here. Out there. Is All about the customer. Yes, so it was fun. Shifts went by fast. We had very most of the staff or students. We had very little turnover and regularly customers came back and said, I just want to say that we've been in almost every store in this mall and this is the only one that someone said welcome and we just wanted to say thank you. Simple something that that little book store, again, this is the late S, was projected to do five hundred thousand gross revenue that here and we did just over a million. Yeah, it shows how the simple things can add up to the really big things. And I think back to one of my very first jobs that really shaped me was working for old navy, the retailer, and very similar to the training that that you just shared. It was very simple. When someone walks in the door, you walk up, you greet them, you give them a blue bag, you offered a walk them around the store and shop with them. I kid you not, old navy was just coming into the Houston market. This is the late s early s. It was just coming into the Houston market with one of the very four stores in the Houston market and I was a second round of hires. We were the number one selling old navy in the entire country for three years straight. I was on a team that we went and we opened up other old navies in Houston and it was just very simple. And now you know, flash forward twenty plus years later. To get someone to say hello to you is almost impossible. And this to me is one of the greatest opportunities here to take a particularly in financial services, to take a proactive stance in a person's life. Don't wait for them to come up to you and say hey, I have a problem because in baking, by that time it might be a little too late. And that's where I want to come back to the story of Chris, because one of the pains that you noted in Chris's story was the commoditization of prescriptions. Now we're seeing commoditization and almost every single vertical. It's very clear in financial services and when thump something gets commoditized, that really puts a lot of downward press pressure on the pricing structure. In Walmart, you noted Walmart. Walmart advertises prescriptions for four dollars. But but that's only half the story because I think it goes beyond that, because competing on price is a path towards the bottom. What are the opportunities in your mind, to go beyond positioning around price in financial services and really go beyond positioning around what we would see is rate, or even service for that that matter? Where's where are some opportunities that we can expand...

...the dear listeners mind here? Yeah, I love it. So you just I think this is like one of the corner stronge questions and I'm going to answer to a couple of ways. So first of all, I want everyone to consider that your customers don't know the questions to ask to make an effect of buying decision. Yes, okay, so that's the first piece. If you actually start paying attention from the customers mindset, from the customers perspective, it's really important. We all assume everyone knows what we know. If anyone who's worked in your in you know whatever, whoever the businesses, if they've worked in the business for three months or more, they are an expert compared to the customer curse of knowledge, hers of Knowledge. So we assume they know. And so this is where we're ripping them off because they don't and we're not educating. I mean every regardless if you're in a bank or on a pharmacy your every team member's job is to educate an offer. Yes, because customers don't know when they're being ripped off. And if they don't know, if they don't have the information, they don't even know the questions to ask, then the only information they can make a decision on is price, mm, and then we're commoditized. Right, right. Ye. So you know, with pharmacy, and it's the reason I work with pharmacy, because it's almost like the pharmacy industry, and you can say about banking, if this is true, but pharmacy in the states in particular has almost got an unfair market. Yeah, right, I mean they have to compete directly with their there they have to submit their patient data to their competitor. Yes, right, because the pharmacy benefit managers are owned by the insurance companies, which are owned by the chains. Right, really, just follow the math, right, so, so, and the reimbursements are being cut. They're getting back in fees, ID our fees. It just you could be a million dollars a year in back end clawbacks when they already weren't getting paid more than the much more than the wholesale cost. Right, so. So, if a pharmacy thinks their business is dispensing medication, they are going out of business. HMM. Okay. Now, if a pharmacy thinks that their business is helping it could be families with young children. It could be, you know, diabetes, it could be helping employers in the community have healthy, productive, you know, workforce. What's there? What's their focus? What's their passion? How do they make a difference in their community? And their prescriptions are just part of how they do it? Yes, same for banking. Yes, exactly the same for banking. What's your focus? I I talked to it was actually this is probably fifteen years ago, and it was an entrepreneurial bank. I think they were based in Georgia. So the owner of this entrepreneurial bank. They really focused on working with local community entrepreneurial businesses and this area real fabric cut in real fast. This area of local community institutions empowering small businesses is one of the greatest growth opportunities. I've done a lot of thought leadership around this, which is where I'm getting really excited. So continue because it really is, I think, something that the dear lister can que and take notes on. Yeah, James Robert, I think you're queuing into something pivotally important, because we're a businesses are being underserved, under appreciated and don't have access to the cash they need to grow. Yes, from national change, they're not being looked after. You're it's huge, I think this in order for community businesses to flourish, they need what you're talking about. Walgreens, Walmart, CBS is to Bank of America, wells and the north of the border, td BMO, etc. And so this is where I think this this transformative moment of the micro having the potential to beat the macro. But it goes beyond just the brick and mortar experience. That's just... part of the equation. A lot of buying decisions in banking or being made before someone walks into a physical branch, if they walk into a branch at all. But I think it's this advisory piece, this education piece to me, and I'll even go a step further, coaching to has a unique opportunity within financial services because of the the inherent complexities around money, whether that be on the retail side or on the the business or the commercial side. Money is inherently complex and from from a neurological perspective, that increases cognitive load exponentially and just simply having a conversation. I want to come back to the point that you said people don't know the right questions to ask in the first place and and I think this is where you're thinking in your book comes back into play, because a lot of financial brands they think about upselling, upselling the next best product, but you say no, absolution is the opportunity. So I'm curious. Can we dive deeper into the opportunities to what I frame as putting the transformation of people beyond the commoditized transaction of dollars and sense? What does it mean to up solution perfect? I think let's start with because that's what people lose. You're exactly right. Up Selling. Up solutions are the polar opposite. It's a hundred ay degrees polar opposite. upselling is, would you like fries with that? How can I you know you're buying something for me? How can I get more out of you? Transactional. Transactional solutions is, how can I create value that you leave with exactly what you need that you may not even know unique? Right, right, it's personal, it's relationship. And I'll give you a banking example, because this was this was this entrepreneur who owned this entrepreneur focus base. And I think, going back to your good or good questions, I think for in my opinion, the banking industry, I think a good question is who's your market and what do they need to be successful? Because your spot on that. You know if you handle the finances, if the lifeblood of their business so that they have the confidence to grow they know where to invest, they know how they're doing. Yes, right. So if I'm a bank and I'm targeting my, you know, local business owners, what can I do to help them be more successful? And and and then how do I position that? Right, right, and year's here's an example. So this guy, he owns, is on bank, their marketer entrepreneurs, and every month a bank employee, a team member, would be calling each of their customers, their business customers, and pulling data. HMM, right, they had this whole what it was the data they needed to pull every month to do what they did. And somewhere along the way he had this this, you know, this brilliant idea. It was all captured. The team members in the bank were capturing it in an excel spreadsheet, right. So instead they packaged the excel spreadsheet, embedded the formulas and sold it to their customers. Their customers were ecstatic. This was this whole tool that now they actually got to see transparently how they were doing, you know, helping businesses one thing. Helping businesses figure out what are the dashboard metrics they have to stay on top of, right, Gosh. So, so this bank generated seventy fivezero dollars of extra revenue that year, increased the results and satisfaction of their customers and they reduced the the team members. It used to take the team an hour per cut, per customer, per business customer right, pull that dad and analyze it. Instead, they just got report from an excel spreadsheet because they sold it as a tool. Digital growth is a journey from good to great, but sometimes this journey can feel confused, using, frustrating and overwhelming. The...

...good news is you don't have to take this journey alone, because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin text who are all learning, collaborating and growing together. Visit Digital growthcom slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now back to the show. That's this idea of value creation. I can think of Keith Castello and Corey La Bloc, who have started a new community bank that is digital first, called locality, out of the South Florida market area, and it really is to help do some like how am I doing comparatively, because we all want to know. Of that, that idea of just benchmarking. This is a fantastic example. Here I want to come back to a point you mentioned before, to like with your own personal origin story working at this book's book store, because, and we touched on this previously, internal teams. Internal teams are critical to create a positive external experience. The front stage is only going to be as strong as the backstage. And when I think about this, I wrote baking on digital little growth. Came Out April of twenty, April May of two thousand and twenty, but I got it wrong. I said it was a formula approach to growth. DX hx equals growth. A positive digital experience plus a positive human experience will lead to future growth. But now, reflecting back on the pandemic, I missed it and we have to rewrite it. X H X multiplied by DX, that is what will equal growth. Going for because a positive employee experience, when added to a positive human experience, can be multiplied by a positive digital experience. So it starts internal. What role do internal teams play and how might financial brands be able to gain buy in and support, because this is a completely different way of thinking, it's completely different way of operating and sometimes there's going to be resistance because change is hard and change is painful and don't move my cheese please. And well, yes, change is hard and you'll start to see which of the team members actually want to go to the next level. Right, don't, because that also happens. Yes, right. So let's see. We're are going to start diving into that. First of all, I would say I think I like to talk about your team. Are the most important profit driver you have in your business. Yes, right, if you're anything beyond a Solo Entrepreneur, your team are the most important profit driver in the business and they need to be set up to win. They need to know what is that they're doing, how do they can treat create impact and value? Where is their purpose? Right, that they get to feel go home feeling like their heroes because they've made it, you know, someone's Day. They're difference. So they need to know what the business really is, not what you sell. Yes, say. They need to know the standards, how how to win at their role. Rights. If they don't, they're guessing and most of the time guessing wrong, even though they're trying to get win and guess right. They has to be a good communication structure, even just a minimum twenty thirty minute huddle once a week. Yeah, so that they are in touch and they're in the loop, and then they have to have regular feedback to know are that how are they doing right? So, so all of those pieces need to be part of, you know, setting the team up to win. It's almost like, you know, an entrepreneurs role is, yes, setting the purpose and yes, they're passion into a business platform that...

...they get to have an impact in their market place and community, you know, but it's also making sure you've created an environment for your team to be, you know, purposeful, love what they do, know what they do, how it matters, understand the impact they're having. And when you create a culture like that, you it's like you turn on something that is a profit driver. It's just, you know, increasing customer metrics, retention metrics, team and customer referral metrics. Yes, this is it. Yeah, you've mentioned this idea of entrepreneur a few times and an entrepreneurial banker. You mentioned Georgia. I can think of David over at sunrise banks, who's now chairing up the global alliance for banking on values. Purpose is critical in this. What about for A. Maybe there are a credit union, maybe they are a community bank. Entrepreneurship might not be the natural default, but maybe there's some entrepreneurship that we could facilitate and bubble up some of that to the top. What might be ways to facilitate that thinking, because I I see when it comes to banking, particularly when looking at Colby profiles, it is the polar opposite of what we would see with a natural entrepreneur. Natural Entrepreneur is going to be initiating quick start, where your typical banker profile is going to be initiating fact finder, maybe initiating follow through, resistance on the quick start, and that does create some tension and conflict when it comes to trying new things, Rick Risk, aversion growth. How might you address some of that internally when it comes to like working against someone's natural operating profile to maybe they're not a natural entrepreneur, but maybe there are entrepreneurs internally who have that? How can we give them a platform to facilitate positive transformation? Yeah, but it's a great question on a good and important and important point. So you know the definition of an entrepreneur is someone who may not own the business but have has a business owner mindset. Yes, an entrepreneur on mindset, which means they're focused on outcomes and results, right, and not focused on tasks. They're very consciously aware of how are they doing, what they're responsible for, that they're creating outcomes. Yes, and and really I think this is going to be one of the key mindsets for any business. The entrepreneur or entrepreneurs leaders front facing team members. You know, in banking you always think of the teller, right, is that teller? Do it just processing the transaction, saying hi and how is your week? Or is that teller, you know, saying I notice this and you tend to do you know you tended to these type of transactions and did you know that we can do this? Would you be interested in sitting down with somebody? Yes, right, so they're paying attention to the person in front of them and what do they need and how can you be a problem so I think the key piece with this is each person on your team in their role. What's their talent? What's what's the front facing like? How do they interact and how can they be a problem solver in their role with who they interact with? That's a great point. It because that about being an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur. It's literally about being a problem solver and a critical thinker who can look at a situation uniquely. And then that's where, in financial services, we have all of this data at our disposal and then come back and make proactive recommendations to say, Hey, this is where you're at, this is where you could go. How does that make you feel, and really begin to visualize that future creation collaboratively with an account holder or a prospective account or. I want to shift gears, and it has been such a fun conversation. I...

...want to shift gears for a bit because you wrote an article to start off two thousand and twenty two, where you predicted that this is going to be the year of small giants, and I it made it gave me a lot of hope, particularly working within financial services, working with credit unions, working with community banks, regional banks. What what do you mean by this, this idea of this is going to be the year of small giants? M Well So, first of all, I'm building on Bow Birmingham's book small giants, and it's a great read. These are companies that want to be excellent, not necessarily big, they're not. They didn't launch a business to go through an IPO. They launched a business because they love what it is, they love the people they work with and they want to be the best they would be. So small giants tend to be, you know, the go to business in their industry and a community, that they're very integrated in the community, they're very experience and value orientated. Right. So I think, I really think this is the year for small giants because again, I think independently owned businesses or the corner strown in their community and they're the ones that are problem solving and connected in their community. And our demand, our needs, have changed. So how are they out there delivering them? But they have to think. I think that's a pivotal piece. We said this the beginning of our conversation. If you have a brick and mortar store, you can no longer open your door and wait for people to come in. Right. Who are your customers? What do they need today? How are you reaching them? How are you creating value? What more do they need? And you know so, and being innovative on what technology can you harness? You know how are things changed? And and it I think small giants for me are business owners and teams that are very passion driven, community focused and outcomes based. I want to stay on this idea of community because it to me. I've talked a lot about community, I've written a lot about community, I coach a lot about community, community development, not from a traditional sense, because community goes beyond the physical boundaries. Now community comes back to values, it comes back to purpose, it comes back and we're seeing that, like aspiration, financials, building a community brand around this idea of, you know, environmentalism, saving the planet, and they have product positioning and it all speaks to that. You in your article reference a brand called farm to paw and I love this. Can you know what is farm to paw done to be a small giant in their community, because they really have differentiated themselves beyond commoditization. What's the story there? So farm to pop, first of all, fabulous, a local entrepreneur, fabulous branding. I mean the branding is exceptional, the store appearance, the team engagement, the set up, the set up to win. But you know, it started off with a boutique pet food store, right and and mostly, you know, it's in Canada, mostly Canadian products. They a lot of raw. It's only healthy stuff. The owner is actually a canine nutritionist. So they carry raw dehydrated Sun Kibbel uh, trying to meet the needs of their community. But they've it's fun, you know, it's fun. And and back to customers don't know what they don't know. They don't even know the questions to ask. The number of times that the team of helped me make a decision that I feel like I'm having a better impact on my animals, you know. But they're not. They're not out there trying to be a pet food store for everyone who owns an animal. They are the go to destination for people that their animals are part of their family. Yes, right, so that there they're passion and about the health and the outcome and all of that.

And so they you know, they've got these great branded bags. Everyone leaves with these purple bags. So I do all my grocery shopping with farm to paw eggs. You know. Yeah, you're you're a walking billboard. And I think what's interesting is like, when I'm looking at farm to pause positioning, it says, and this is on the website, farm to Paul is actively building a community of pet lovers that only want the best health solutions for their pets, and I've spoken about this. There's a niche banking opportunity for pet lovers like there could be so much branding, so much positioning, so much product development that would go back into this idea of a niche market. And it's just one of really, I would say hundreds, if not thousands, of niche examples, because that's Seth Goden wrote in his book back into I think, two thousand and eleven. We are all weird and it was the it was the end. Is the myth of mass and like this idea of mass, like we're now coming back to the micro is going to beat the macro. Patty, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate the knowledge that you have shared, that you've transferred with with our dear listeners. There's a lot of great insight and takeaways. But before we wrap up, what is the best way that someone can reach out and say hello to you, to continue the conversation, to pick up your book, and I think you even have a couple of special resources just for them. Yes, please. So the easiest way to get access is Patty narracom Patti am Aar Acom. You know, they're all the links to social media platforms and please do connect. And then what you were saying is that we've if you go to Patty Maracom forward slash banking on digital growth, then there's a special resource page. There's on link to find it where you come by the book. But I've created a touch point score card which is a really powerful tool to look at different parts of Your Business from your customers perspective, and I'd recommend doing it with team members because you'll get have interesting insight developing that skill set. Yes, and there's even a short training video on how to use this tool. Choose the one that's most applicable for your business and how to use it. So that's there's some resources there. There's a contact page if you want to connect with me through social media. So that's the easiest way. Get the book, take the quiz, the assessment, connect with Patty. Patty, what's the best? What was that? You arel again for the dear listener. Patty Maracom, forward slash banking on digital growth. There it is. Thank you, Patty. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of banking on digital growth. This has been a lot of fun today. Thank you, James Robert, a pleasure as always, and until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James Robert Lang to get even more practical and prove an insights, along with coaching and guidance. This it digital growthcom slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and Fintax. Until next time, be well and do good.

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