Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

79) #ExponentialInsights: Banking as a Service: What You Need to Know ft. Nathan Baumeister


By now, you probably know everything about SaaS…

But what about the next frontier: BaaS?

Banking as a Service is taking over — How will your financial brand be affected?


To answer that, I sat down with Nathan Baumeiste, CEO at ZSuite Technologies, to find out the most important things every financial brand should know about the exciting new BaaS landscape.

What we talked about:

- Why BaaS is both a threat and an opportunity

- What courage really means — and what it means for you

- The power of low-cost experiments

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player. thing. I think a lot of people get wrong. Courage as it means. There's an absence of fear That's not true. There is no absence of fear, in fact, that there is an absence of fear. You're not courageous. Mhm. You're listening to banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the Exponential Insight series, where James Robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show Greetings and hello, I am James Robert Ley and welcome to the 79th episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the Exponential Insight series, and I'm excited to welcome Nathan Baumeister to the show. Nathan is the CEO of Z Sweet Technologies, working to provide banks and creditors with the tools to grow core deposits, attract commercial clients and expand existing relationships. Welcome to the show, Nathan. Thank you so much. James. Excited to be here as we start this conversation. You talk about this idea of excitement. I'm seeing a lot of excitement right now. I'm hearing a lot of excitement, as as we're moving almost one year beyond we started this covid journey. We're moving through this post covid world. I look at covid is we're either pre covid, you know, before things became the new normal the way they are. We're trying to figure out what that looks like now to where we're moving to in this post covid world. What is one thing that you are excited about right now? Personally or professionally? Well, you know, James? Yes. To personally one thing that I'm excited about right now. I just got a call yesterday from one of my teammates from the University of Texas at Austin's gymnastics teams that I was a part of way back 15 years ago. 15 years, man, we're getting some We're getting a good good bit of space on this. Yeah. No, absolutely. Anyways, he was calling because we're going to get together to celebrate our national championship with 1/5 time. You know that time, period ago, it was pretty exciting. Well, congratulations on that, because, I mean, I think That's a That's a really, really great way to start this conversation on on a high note. You look back over 15 years, and if we look back and go 15 years of of of That championship to really just looking back over the last 12 months of what we've gained and what you've personally gained through this covid journey through the work that you've been doing, what is maybe one key lesson or insight that you could teach someone else? You know, the key lesson that I would take away in from both experiences way back 15 years ago and even this year is keep going. Mm. It is amazing to me how many...

...people stop when it gets tough. I actually quit gymnastics when I was a kid in junior high and stopped doing it all the way until I was in college and I rejoined the team and it was scary. You know, I was. Most of the guys on the team had been doing gymnastics consistently all that whole time, but I thought, you know, I want to do this and I want to work at it, and even though it's been a long time and I'm gonna have to work harder than everybody else to catch up on my conditioning and all that stuff. I just did it. And when I look back over the last 12 months of what's been happening with Covid, we didn't have control over what was going on. We didn't, but that didn't give you an excuse to stop. And those businesses and those individuals that kept going that kept looking for ways to innovate, kept looking for ways to grow, kept looking for ways to make a difference in people's lives were the ones that now are stronger than they were 12 months ago. I really like that. Keep going, Don't stop and to your own story you talked about you stepped away and then you came back and you said it was a little bit scary. What role did courage play in making that commitment to keep going? And maybe what role does courage play that we're seeing in the banking space For those to continue to move down this path of digital growth in this post covid world? How does how does courage play out in all of this? I love courage for a couple of reasons first one thing. I think a lot of people get wrong. Courage as it means. There's an absence of fear. That's not true. There is no absence of fear, in fact, that there is an absence of fear. You're not courageous. It is about in the face of fear, being willing to still accept the consequences that might come and still go ahead and make the decisions that that you're making. I mean, I'll tell you right now there are six events that you do in men's gymnastics. One of them is called the High Bar. That's the skinny one that you swing around. You're supposed to let it go and then grab it again. It's ridiculous, like even just talking about it. My palms get sweaty, my heart starts to increase. And you know, I haven't touched a high bar in 15 years, but it didn't change the fact that it was time to get up there and go for it. You had to get up there and go for it. And what is the fear that's holding people back? Financial brands back in the covid world or post covid world or thinking of digital transformation? Thinking about how do I compete against all of these things that are out there? It's okay to feel fear. It's okay. In fact, it's probably gonna drive your performance to make it even better. And I'm going to lean on a lot of the writing of Of Burn a Brown, where she, she writes Courage is contagious and actually quoted that now, almost a year ago, whenever covid was starting, Because it's like if and I like that perspective, it's It's not about you don't have fear. You embrace that, but... almost use that fear as fuel. But then, if you take a courageous stand point, then courage can be contagious to those that are around you to help elevate their own level of courage right alongside you. And I think that's what like what leadership is is really all about. And when we think about leadership, particularly technology leadership, you guys are doing some really good work in helping to to move the ball, move the needle forward and historically, technology for financial brands only just a few different options to to upgrade their tech stack. They could build it, they could buy it. Neither one was a lot of fun, uh, building. It had a high capital expense by it felt like they were going to go to prison with contracts that just didn't make sense. But I think that's where, like courage comes because there was a lot of false hope in some of these deals and the good news that I'm seeing. His banks and creditors are really starting to hold technology partners and their vendors to a higher standard. They're having the courage to do so. How is is what we're hearing a lot about now, this idea of banking as a service. How is this changing the rules of the game? How is baby baking as a service, giving bankers even more courage to move down this path? Yeah, you know there's There's a lot of concepts that are all pulled together in the technology world right now, when banks are making these decisions, banking is a service is one that's talked about quite a bit. Another one is software as a service, and there's really interrelated and and depending on what you first think of when you hear SAS, which is the software as a service or banking as a service, sometimes you know people call it bass, not the one that you eat, Um, but some people see it as an opportunity. Some people see it as a threat, and honestly, it is both of them. There's different types of thinking as a service companies, and there's different types of SAS companies that can represent a large threat to an individual financial institution, or even to a whole industry of financial institutions or financial brands, just depending on how you look at it. So maybe James let me know. Would it be helpful, maybe to talk a little bit about what SAS is? What Bass is kind of the difference between the two? I think it would be because I understand it. But I think for the dear listener, you know, software as a service. Maybe it's a It's a term that we've heard a lot more, but but bass and I like that, not the ones that we eat. It's a newer subject, so can we just take a step back and define that? Because it's a word that we're going to hear more and more of in this post covid world, and I want people to have an understanding of what it means that they can constantly talk about it. Okay, great. So when something is as a service, that means that you don't actually own it, right? That was kind of the big push forward. Salesforce dot com is obviously the first big player that jumped into software as a service. You don't own the software, you license it out, it's...

...hosted somewhere else. Someone else takes care of it, and I can just log in and use what I need to use. I don't need to buy the whole thing right. And so banking is a services exact same capability, but specifically for banking services, which we mean by that is things that require a chartered financial institution in the US So there's a whole bunch of software as a service companies that want to provide banking services, but they don't have a charter. So since they don't have a charter, they want to look for opportunities to basically use a bank's charter right or use the banks technology stack to be able to serve those types of typical services that you get just from a bank checking accounts, savings accounts, loans, those types of things so it allows software companies who are not banks to offer those banking services. And from a banking perspective, like like I'm gonna go on the other side of the table, I'm a CEO. How might banking as a service help me create more value for my customers and then, as a result, create more value for my financial brand? And that is the core of the question, right? So the first thing to embrace if you go down the path of banking is a service. And up to this point, the best data that I have. There's about 90 financial institutions in the U. S that are dabbling in this space. So pretty small percentage out of you know, when you think of all of the banks and credit unions here in the U. S. That are actually playing in the space, you have to redefine who is your customer because by a bank offering banking is a service. Your current customers are going to benefit from it. You're going to get a new customer base, which are software companies, and now those software companies. You are going to be a vendor to them, and you're going to be offering services to them. You're going to basically be infrastructure for those things that they're going out to the marketplace for. And so this is a very, very different business model. This is a very different service model than most financial institutions have stepped into up to this point. So it becomes an operational supporting the like to your point the infrastructure behind the scenes and letting someone else maybe take more of the front stage perspective to go to market. And then we're playing more of that backstage supporting role. That's exactly right, and this is where it goes into where the threat is here. So let's say all institutions across the United States decided to be do banking as a service. Well, first stopping to tell you it's not going to work, because what's the one rule that we've learned about infrastructure across? You know, ever since the Industrial Revolution infrastructure in the end, is a scale..., That's it. There's nothing else to it than that. If you're going to be infrastructure, you have to build scale. That's the way that you create profit and long term growth. So when you look at, you know, before banking as a service happened infrastructure as a service happened, right? A lot of you have heard of AWS. A lot of you have heard of Azure. A lot of you have heard of the Google Cloud platform. These are infrastructure as a service, right? So that I don't need my own data center. I can just rent a partial portion of AWS. There is a reason that there are really only three options in the marketplace right now and that there is some of the largest companies in the United States because infrastructure is a scale plague. Well, I think the aws story aws being Amazon Web services I think that's a unique story because Amazon had all of this extra capacity with their infrastructure that they figured well, we could take this to the marketplace and license or provide a small piece of the pie and create more value and more revenue for Amazon and when it's a unique model that Amazon took to play. But now, when we think about infrastructure to the point of banking as a service, you mentioned some of these challenges here. Let's dive a little bit deeper there. Yeah, So the first challenges is figuring out this new business model, your client is no longer the law firm. The municipality, the consumer that lives down the street. Your client is now a software company who's using the most modern technology fully conversant in a P s, deep into data, really understanding of the technology stack right. And so they come to work with your team. Do you have the people there to support these types of clients to speak their language? Do you have the technology infrastructure to be able to plug into their technology infrastructure? And so that's where some of those threats come to play is is How is it that first banking is a service? I'm telling you right now, there's not gonna be a lot of play, a lot of winners and more than likely the banks that go in there first. They're going to build up this capacity sooner than everybody else. And anyone that gets traction is probably going to do a merger with the rest of the banks that are being able to do banking as a service. The other challenge that exists is when you are an infrastructure or your back seat player. The capture of value you can get in. The relationships that are being created is going to be minimized, right? So the front end player, the person, I think you said front stage the person in front stage is the one that's going to capture the whole customer relationship. Profitability, the infrastructure pieces, a volume play. Well, I'm going to be able to help you...

...with all of your customers, and I'll be able to help this other bank or sorry, this other software company over here with all their customers and I'm just gonna be able to get a lot of volume and a little piece of a lot of volume is better than a big piece of a smaller volume. And this is a very different economic model. Then what most banks are used to currently were there in the front stage, offering their products directly to the customers. And then they get the bulk of the profitability that comes from those customers. So I'm a CEO. I'm listening. I get where you're going conceptually, why would I want to exit where I've gotten to the point to where I'm at today, which is that I offer the front stage experience and some of the backstage. Why would I want to go away from that and start working with these other technology companies that can offer the front stage experience? I take a smaller piece of the pie, but I have the operational efficiency to do this for multiple. We'll just call them quote unquote brands. Where's my long term value creation? This and how can I reconcile this? Because it's a little bit scary proposition, like I get where you're going. But something told me back with this. Yeah, no, I think it is very scary. In fact, James, this is why I would propose that the large majority of financial institutions should not play in the space. I think that there is a better model for banks and credit unions and other financial brands to still stay in the forefront while still being able to offer technology solutions where they can still continue to capture the large portion of the economic relationship. Now that being said, if you're still listening, you're like no man, I want to play. Then I'm all for it because there is not yet a dominant design or market leader yet, so that means that there still is space for someone to come and be the AWS. There really is the 90 banks that have been playing. There's a lot of them that have been doing a really great job, but it's still a very emergent market. There's still a lot of growth to be had. I'm just It's not gonna be a lot of folks, right, But if you really are committed to it, then you need to commit to it right. It's really diving deep. How do you figure out how to do business development with folks out in Silicon Valley out in Austin, Texas, Out here in Boston, Massachusetts, Salt Lake City's and other big ones? Some people call the silicon slopes. I mean, where these text center hubs are. What are you doing to go build your business development efforts to make sure that when they think oh, you know what I need banking the service. I'm going to think of Bank X, Y Z or Credit Union X y Z, right? And like I said, it's just a different business model, and you need to be thinking of your talent outside of just business development on technology, because what technology stack do you have that's going to be able to easily plug into and support a lot of these different software companies. And do you have the right people on staff to actually make that happen? Yeah, you mentioned like this being more of A. I would call it a niche play for a smaller subset of...

...institutions who have the capability of the technology and the talent to go and build these new relationships. When you think about banking service, what is a common belief that this industry might have or others in this industry might have right now that you just disagree with? Yeah, well, James, I kind of mentioned it already, but it's this idea that it's the panacea of next stage growth for banks. I think that is going to be a panacea for next stage growth for certain number of banks. But I do not think it's something that should be on all banks. Strategic initiatives are all financial brand strategic initiatives, because I don't think that first, not everyone's gonna win. And secondarily, I think there's a lot of banks out there that just aren't ready for it. And to that point you mentioned that there are other opportunities. Other plays that someone, other paths, someone could go down if they didn't go This banking as a service route to still grow to capture market share profitability? What might those be from your own perspective of the world? Yeah, well, you know, the first and foremost, I think we all as an industry as financial brands need to totally embrace that our future as technology. Well, what's interesting is it's not technology alone, its relationship and expertise paired with the right technology. And as long as you think of both of those together and you try and figure out ways to be able to differentiate yourself and how you could come to market in those types of aspects, you're going to be able to succeed. So in the same way that there's all these software as a service, companies that want to offer banking technology right, they want to be able to offer, you know, checking accounts, savings accounts, loans, those types of things. There's also a ton of software as a service, companies that have a very, very hard time and customer acquisition. Now, I don't know about you, James, but do you know a whole bunch of firms and institutions all throughout the United States that have a great customer base, get community F I s man community financial brands. They do. They have something that is desperately needed for most Saas companies. And what's really cool about a lot of the software that's coming out these days in the SAS world is that you're getting more and more targeted and more and more nici products. And, you know, I know it's an old cliche saying, But you got to say it. The riches are in the niches. That's right. That's right. And as you look at this and I agree and I've written about this a lot, I've spoken about this a lot. You talk about SAS fintech, however, you want to frame that they need eyeballs. Community financial brands have the eyeballs. What are the opportunities to bring these together... meet in the middle? Yeah, so it all comes down to fulfilling needs, and there is no substitute in business. Been finding a paint point that a group of folks that you want to serve as and then taking care of that pain point, that's how you build a long term successful business. And so it's not just a financial institution, wakes up one day and says, I want to I want to partner with this cool technology because I looked at It's pretty awesome. I went to renovate last year and they presented, You know, I want to be. I want to use the next cool thing. That's not the way to do strategy, right? It's the It's the shiny object syndrome. I mean, you're gonna be pulled 1000 different direction every single year. Getafe innovate. Exactly. Well, they're great presentations to I mean, I've I've had companies that have presented there and you know, it's awesome going there and getting to be able to talk to all the different banks and credit unions and see all these cool technology stuff that's going on. But the key is is you want to be intentional about what markets and segments and niches that you want to serve after your intentional on those markets niches verticals, however you wanna call it segments we could use whatever where we want. Then just go talk to them. Watch them go see what Go see a day in the life of spend time with them say, What's frustrating to you? Hey, you banked with me for the last 10 years. What's the most frustrating thing about it? What are things that you wish you could do that you can't do? What do all those people over there do and what you're going to find? Are you going to find these pain points? And when you find those pain points, I can almost guarantee you that you'll be able to find a SAS company that actually solves those pain points. And so it's about being intentional and then listening very, very closely to finding How is it that you could provide value in the relationship that you have with the folks you already have relationships with? Going all in is the the acronym that I use and teach by going all in on people, you ask good questions, you listen to them, and then you learn about what's keeping them up at night. Those questions and concerns. And then what are the hopes and dreams that they have on the on the flip side of the equation that I like that then it's like now you have clarity into those that you could help and then, more importantly, how you might be able to help them, and and I want to talk about what you're doing at Z Sweet right now with with the problems that you're solving. Can you unpack some of this because it really backs nicely into this part of the conversation of where you've been, where you're at and then where are some of those opportunities that we might be able to go next, just on this own personal journey that you're taking? Yeah, for sure. And you know, I share this with the idea of just a blueprint, right? It's just a blueprint, because that's all it is. Our company actually started... a product innovation group within a bank. That's where we started. And they went about their innovation and exactly the way that I said, Man, we need more deposits. Well, look, we bank a lot of property manager and landlords, but we don't have a lot of the deposits there just on our lending side of the equation, huh? I wonder how we could get them to get more deposits. I don't know. Let's go talk to him. Oh, hey, They have a hard time collecting rent Let's help him collect rent. Cool. Oh, I have a hard time managing tenant security deposit accounts. Oh, cool. Let's solve that problem. And they figured out how to solve those problems. And that was it. That was the start of our company. Those are the two products that we then spun out from Leader Bank and have taken out to other financial institutions throughout the US and really, we just kind of continued on that tradition. We went out and talked to banks. We said, Hey, we have these two things that help property managers and landlords collect rent manager tenant security deposit accounts. What do you think they're like? Hey, that's cool. We could use that. But did you know that I have these other commercial clients that have other escrow needs that aren't tenant security? And they start talking about law firms, municipalities and all these different types of things and how much of the pain it is to manage those accounts? And how many law firms say that they wish they could have more digital access and they could do this and they could do that, and we're like, Well, shoot, it looks like we could probably help with that. Why don't we build something to help solve that? And that's I mean And that's it, right? So what do we do? What we build digital escrow and sub accounting solutions for banks and credit unions to offer in the Treasury management suite if they're focused on commercial verticals that need it, and that's it. If you don't that's cool. Find something else that's passionate for you. But just following, you know, following the road of listening and knowing the story of Leader Bank and the work that jaded and how this got spun out, I think the key takeaway here is getting really good at asking good questions, listening and then coming back to the marketplace with a cure or solutions to those pain points. What is it from your perspective that might keep financial brands from just even asking these questions, too? Because it's not rocket science, and I'm hearing more and more patterns of of leaders that are doing this. But there are very few and far between. At this point, I'm hoping that we can get more of this perspective of asking questions, talking with customers, learning and not assuming anything but really like first principles, thinking of starting at the ground level and just being curious. What keeps financial brands from even maybe beginning this journey to begin with in the first place. Historically, up to this point, you know, that's a good question. I don't know. I really don't know. I can look into myself. Why? What stops me from asking questions? What stops me from being curious and typically it comes down to two things.

Fear that when I go talk to people, they're gonna tell me some stuff that I don't really like or isn't consistent with. My perception of myself, for my business and second pride already know the answer. Wow. And I think the solution. We've come full circle now. The lean into that the fear of the perception and pride is having the courage to go out and whatever that answer might be, be able to accept it and then not only accept it, but then have the courage to take action against it. And when we when we shift the conversation from and and really the thinking from being focused on ourselves and what we need as an individual or an organization and an institution and start to train the mind. To put the focus on the people in the communities that we serve and communities is not doesn't have to be defined by borders anymore. It can be an infinity and like, for example, the work that you're doing. You've got these people who take written. They had these problems. That's a community. It's It's an affinity of people who have a similar problem. But it wasn't about what leader bank was doing. It was about the needs of the marketplace, and it comes back to the point of niche. So if we look at this idea of of niche, maybe it just starts. Maybe we can identify these opportunities by asking just getting good at asking good questions. What do you think? I'm just kind of like riffing on this a little bit? No. I mean so when I start talking to people and they're like, I love this idea, But where can I start with niches? I always encourage them to start where you're at your financial brand. You already have customers. You have members. You have people that you're working with. Start where you're at you have you have branch locations already physically in certain communities. Start where you're at, Have the conversations with those folks. Figure out from a data perspective. What are some of the common themes that I'm seeing around here? What's my fastest growing segment within my lending portfolio? Who are the folks that are business development offers? Officers are getting the most traction with. I mean, just look at where you're at and start there, and this is This is a conversation internally that probably needs to happen more frequently. I think, you know, historically, maybe we have this conversation once a year. But if we could maybe increase the speed of internal perspective and internal sharing of knowledge that can then increase the speed of creating solutions or bringing solutions to bear in the marketplace. And I think to maybe the opportunity also in one, a conversation I've been having more and more is just piloting, testing, trying something because it doesn't mean that we have to change the entire culture in the organization. It's like we can just...

...start small here, test it, figure it out, what works, what doesn't work, learn from that experience, and then apply those learnings going forward. How did. Maybe if you think back with how you've gotten to this point where you're at with the sweet and the work that you're doing, how might have some of that taking place of iteration? Because you've shared some of that like we did this and then we did this and then we did this. Yeah, there's there's nothing as powerful as a low cost experiment. It is. It's an amazing way to be able to learn. And there's so many different ways to do these low cost experiments again. There's just so many ways that you could do it. You could just take a Power Point presentation with a couple of screenshots and just go out to some of your customers and be like, I'm thinking of doing something like this. What do you think? Saying, Oh, hey, I want to run a Google Ads campaign or Facebook campaign with this new product offering, but I'm not actually gonna have the product. I'm just gonna have a link that you click on that goes to a Web page saying, Thanks for participating in our experiment. We just wanted to be interested in it, like Why can't you do that? that might cost you 1000 bucks, maybe. And they think of the insight that you could get. And here's the really cool thing, James. There are hundreds of SAAS companies that would jump on board with these low cost experiments along with so many of the financial brands here in the US And you could actually get them to help fund some of this market research, which is real world data to help inform your future decision making to bring the future into the present moment. That's a really great practical idea that anyone can can think about Anyone can deploy. And I'm gonna take your thinking even a little bit further, if I may. Is that okay with you? Of course. So you run the ad against the product to be determined, but you're looking to see what demand an appetite might be like. And you actually, instead of just having, you know, thanks for the experiment. You just get a lead capture form first name, last name, email address, and that can then yield, you know, 15 minute conversation to dive a little bit deeper to you, not only get the quantitative data, but maybe even get some more qualitative data and you frame that thinking even a little bit further. And then you have the whole the screen share or the slides showing the U I. R user interface of what this could look like. Man, this is I like this. I like rapid prototype development is what's popping the top of my mind with this. That's exactly what it is. And here's the thing is, most asked companies, they are very skilled in this, and this is something that if they're not doing it, you probably shouldn't partner with. So most of them are doing it. So even if it's new to you, that's cool. It's OK that it's new to you. That doesn't mean you have to be an expert, lean on other people. And if you can't find other people to do it with, move forward. I mean, you're echoing what the conversation that I had with Dan Sullivan from Strategic coach a couple of episodes ago when we were talking about putting the WHO before the how I think so many financial brands. They might get stuck because they think,...

...well, how are we going to do this? And you've just provided a clear path forward with some very specific action items of looking for the who that you could bring partner with collapsed. And I think it's not even partner collaborate with. And you're doing so to create value in the marketplace. And you're gaining some insights just from this whole experience in and of itself that can create exponential value externally. Nathan, this has been a great conversation, and I thank you for the perspective, the lessons that you've shared and it all comes down to that one word that we started this with its just its courage, leaning in and having the courage to just take those first steps forward. You've given a lot of perspective here. What would if we could just distill this down and sum it up? What would be that one step? That micro micro commitment that someone is listening today could take to just maybe move forward. And just to one of these different initiatives or elements that we've talked about. All right, I'm gonna cheat. I'm gonna get two steps, but there's still micro. We'll take it. Pull the data on your customers, find some sort of pattern or segment, talk to 10 of them. And when I say talk to him. I'm not saying offer your current products set. Talk to him. Tell me about your business. What keeps you up at night? What's really hard for you to do? Can I come on site? And just to spend half a day with you? Can I take you to lunch? So that's it. Find a segment or a niche in your customer base and talk to 10 of them as a follow up to that for the dear listener. When was the last time that you took time to do that? I'm gonna build upon the thought and take a step further. Operationalize this. Do it every 90 days and you're guaranteed to learn something new every 90 days and build the collective knowledge as we all move forward on this journey of of digital growth. Nathan, if someone wants to continue this conversation with you, what's the best way for them to reach out and say hello? Yeah, absolutely. Nathan at z sweet tech dot com Always happy to receive emails and shoot. If you want to give me a call, I don't mind giving my cellphone out. 95 64518184 Give me a call and I'd love to chat with you. Give Nathan a call. Chat with Nathan Learned from Nathan. This has been great, Nathan, Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth as always, and until next time be well, do good wash your hands. Technology has transformed our world, and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have to because James Robert...

...wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. Mm.

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