Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 years ago

44) #ExponentialInsights: The Role of Images in Financial Brand Storytelling w/ Andy Janning


The first two questions we ask a prospective customer are:

  • Do you feel like you can trust this institution?
  • How does what you're looking at on the website make you feel?

Financial brands that use stock photography almost inevitably raise a red flag. Yet about 9 in 10 financial brand websites show at least one stock photo.

In this episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I talk with Andy Janning, president and CEO at NO NET Solutions, about the role of images in financial brand storytelling.

Andy and I discuss:

  • Why it's important to have a conversation around imagery
  • How images, pictures, and videos communicate empathy
  • The critical value of taking action on imagery in financial brand storytelling

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

...we will make a determination about an image about what it is literally within 15 milliseconds, and by way of comparison, the human eye blinks at about 300 milliseconds. You're listening to banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toe exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Ley and welcome to another episode of the Banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight Siri's and I'm excited to welcome Andy jamming to the show because Andy has been doing such good work as a storyteller for financial brands now for for almost 30 years. Welcome to the show, Andy. Thank you so much. James Roberts. Pleasure to be here. So you've been in financial services 30 years, But really, what I want to focus in on is the work that you've been doing as a storyteller, as a photographer as a videographer over the last 12 months really has a researcher and anthropologist because you've been looking at one of the most important areas really now more than ever before in a Post Cove in 19 World. And that is around the use of images, photography, video and the stories that financial brands are telling consciously, but probably more subconsciously based upon the use of images. Let's talk about first and foremost why this is important to even have a conversation around because it seems so nuanced and simple, right? Well, it should. And but for me that, you know, kind of going along this path over. Like you said over almost the last three decades, being in financial services has really become very near and dear to me. And it started about 10 11 years ago when a mutual friend of ours, Denise Wymore, was speaking at a supposing that both you and I were at and she was talking about the plague that is stock photography in financial service. At the time, I was working for a credit union working as leading up their talent development efforts and that really it really resonated with me because you know, when I my world is primarily in the talent development world, but also a lot in the marketing world. But there's a lot of interconnection there because both areas air trying to get people's attention to try and change their behavior. And so when Denise was talking about that, I was like, That's really interesting. So emerged a lot about the human element of financial services and visual storytelling, which I love, but, you know, with working and just life, all of that I was like, Okay, that's great. But when I started my business over eight years ago, I started doing a lot of keynote presentations and talking about talent, development and storytelling and human development. This element of photography and visual storytelling started kept creeping back in there, and I kept coming back to what Denise was saying about. We need to do a better job of visually representing who we are not just this generic, you know, ideal ized persona that nobody connects with, and it really hit home. Last year, when I was key noting and all employees presentation for credit union up in Michigan, I was driving back home and I just have the random thought like we all have on road trips. We asked ourselves weird questions and I started asking myself this whole, you know, photography thing. I started asking myself literally the question. How many members and employees actually appear in photos in credit union website? Because that's, you know, the world in which I I rotated most most directly, and I ask myself how many of them...

...appear in that? And does it really matter? And that literally waas just slightly over a year ago and that want those to questions basically kicked off for me, a crazy project to pull together a group of people that we had high hopes. Look at every single image on every single website inside the credit. It's based to see how we are visually telling our story. And what we found was in some ways confirmation alot of some of the instinctual reactions we have to how we have defaulted in our in our visual storytelling, but also opened up some really interesting insights but also some opportunities for us. It's financial services. Professionals like you mentioned even more so now, and these uncertain times, which everybody says. But it's a time where people want Hey, are you really for me? You say that your personal you say that you care about me, prove it. This is our time to prove it. Yeah, that's why this research is really important to me. It's not only important to you, it's important to me, and I recommend it be important to any financial brand leader. Leadership Team, Board of Directors Marketing Team Sells team Because I remember that conversation with Denise and her words were pretty strong. She's We need to kill all the shiny happy stock people on websites today and it's not only a credit union problem, it's also a community bank problem because the message is that which we convey. I've been advocating for financial brands to simplify their digital communication strategies, take out 80% of the content and the copy used in photographs. But more importantly, focus in on the stories that you're telling with the images of the people on your website. Because digital growth is a two sided equation. One hand. We have the digital experience, but on the other hand we have the human experience which is made up of help and hope, but it's multiplied by empathy. How to do images, pictures, videos. How does that communicate? Empathy subconsciously. So if you look at, if you look at the research, when you look at literally how people's eyes move through websites, and when you look at the visual information on there, we will make a determination about an image about what it is literally within 15 milliseconds. And by way of comparison, the human eye blinks at about 300 milliseconds, So we'll look at an image that we will immediately decide. Is it riel and is it relevant? And those eye tracking studies show that if they if the image is, has no connection to what's being presented, people will ignore. But if there's actual real faces of real people with the real connection to what the institution is presenting, then the key on key on it, they'll connect with it, and they'll they're really sink into it. The problem with that is that being able to craft a portfolio of images, I think organizationally people have convinced themselves that it's really difficulty. It's really time consuming. And what's the big deal? Everybody uses stock, so why not just do it. Stock photography. Me for me. It's kind of like the Tiger King off of photographer of visual storytelling. Now, in financial services. We didn't wanna look at it. We didn't know that we really even, you know, really even needed it. Everybody else was doing it, though, so we thought, How bad could it be? Eight episodes in. We now have very strong opinions on a, you know, a zookeeper that we never met before and whether or not he paid somebody to kill another rival zookeeper. All that to say is this We didn't plan to get here if you would've asked any financial services professional. Hey, when you sit down on day one, I want you to be a generic as possible. I want you to be forgettable, and I want you to do your job with the lowest bar of effort.

Nobody would do that. But when we have would do the the churn and the energy of our work, we get so pressed down and margins get so squeezed that the first two areas to go when things get tight, there's talent, development and marketing. They're the last to know in the first to go because we haven't for whatever reason, being able to show that strong link between what we put out there and what we get back is inextricably intermingled. So the extent to which that we a storytellers and all of us are the extent to which we have storytellers can connect with the people whose money were spending and saying, This is the effect that we have. This is a This is a critical thing. The critical question for me is, Do we use banks and credit unions? Love our members are and our customers, or do we just love their stuff? And that's a tough question, and we can talk about how much we care for our people. All we want Thio. But are we really caring for them, or do we just care what they're going to give us? And I think I think the answer. That question is found a lot in our visual storytelling, and that's not a comfortable conversation. But it's a necessary one for us to keep our relevant to keep us relevant. Going forward. Yes, because I can tell you you talked about the studies of the eye tracking. We've actually done quantitative and qualitative. We do quarterly secret shopping for financial brands. And one of the very first questions that we ask to a consumer who does not have a relationship with said Financial Brand is Do you feel like you can trust this institution first and then second? How does what you're looking at? How does it make you feel? And I can tell you, without a doubt the financial brands that are utilizing stock photography stock image always raises a red flag. You can. They might. A consumer might not verbalize it, but you can hear it in totality. You can hear it in the adjectives that they use. So this is more important, as I said before now than ever before. Why? Because Cova 19, and in a Post Cove in 19 World digital digital shopping four financial brands will continue to increase in strategic prominence and importance because people will not go back to acting banking the way they did before. And they shouldn't way have this huge opportunity to be able to show that we are riel, that we're not just this other, this other commodity that we do honestly care about who they are, and I think that we have. We've lost our way a little bit in that that we think that if we just throw up enough images that people will get it, they really don't care. They really don't look at him anyway. You're right. What you're putting out there people don't care about. But when you connected to the real mission of what really people actually do, real people will pay attention. It will. There will be more time and effort into it. Absolutely. But from the data that we've seen, you know, this is I think you know what one person, you know, 10, 11 years ago that we heard described. It's something that we need to get rid of. I have the data to back it up that it is a plague in our industry, and the first organization to steer clear from it in their market will win. So the second one. So the third one, it will just it will go. It will flow like a flow like a river. But it's gonna be a hard revolution, because people they're going to think that it's not really it's different. We Why should we do it? Yeah, I think that's I think we're missing an opportunity if we don't if we ignore it. Yeah, I mean one study that in looking into this before the conversation was from Harvard Business Review, and they found that faces of people who look like us release oxytocin or that feel good chemical that promotes connection. That's the H X. That's the human experience...

...delivered digitally. So let's talk a little bit about some of the findings because you guys looked at almost 1400 credit union websites around 52,000 images. So there's a lot that went into this research. It wasn't something that you did in a day. What were some of the key findings and what were some of the things that may be surprised you going a little bit deeper. So one of things that we found was that the photos of real people were almost non existent. They were only about 3.5% of the total number of website photos that we that we found and of those we viewed in our since we're looking just a credit unions. But I would I would hazard a guess that this isn't just a credit union problem that almost 84% of the credit union websites we visited don't have a single image of an actual member for an actual employee. They're just not there. Photos of Riel employees are almost as rare. They're only about 12% of the total photos that have been put out there. So they're vanishingly small are quote unquote. Most important asset is an inconvenient abstraction when it comes to the messages that were sharing out there and that 70% of the photos that we found were stock and 91% of the Web sites that we visited had at least one stock photo, which means that we're giving our members and our customers tens of thousands of excuses to ignore us tens of thousands of opportunities to just basically put us in the woodpile and just not and think that we're just the same as everybody else. And that was shocking to me that this is that this is this prevalent and it's too soon. I think you know, I would love to be able to say that. You know, I know exactly why these things aren't happening, and I that was gonna take a lot more research and a lot more study. But I think if you were to ask any 10 financial services professionals, leaders, marketers, whoever and ask them which one's easier to get a real photo on a real story of a real member, or just go on to Adobe stock and download something that looks vaguely similar, we're gonna go to Adobe Stock every time because they because there's so much pressure, there's so much business that we've for gotten the people that actually make all of the possible. So I wanna hypothesize a little bit with you about why this is a problem based upon what we're seeing through our digital growth diagnostic studies and working with financial brands. Number one. It's a purpose problem. Um, and what I mean by that is the traditional mission and vision statements of the financial brand, our little internal facing or maybe there are a lot internal facing their clinical. They're rooted in legacy. The opportunity, though, is to create an external facing purpose statement that has surrounded or that surrounds the people of the communities that a financial brand serves because that would make it so much easier to make the investment in what I would call this evergreen content, whether it be a visual, whether it be a story, whether it be a video. And you actually are kind of working through a very specific process to develop evergreen content around specific product lines toe where I do something once. But it creates exponential value over a much longer period of time. Yeah, I might be a little bit harder. Might cost a little bit more than go into adobe stock, But I'm a CEO. I'm a CFO. I want to know that this is going to help me get more loans and and take more deposits in your study. Well, I wanna talk about this first, and then we'll come back thio the process opportunities. But in your studies, you noted that there was a I think it was Ah, Was it a moving... Yeah. Yeah, So this there's a moving company that literally they change one image on one on one of their pages, and I'm pulling up the data here just so I could make sure that I had it. They swapped out a stock image on the front page of their website and this is this is this? A truck driving school stop swapped out a perfectly composed, very nice, very boring stock photo of a guy driving a truck. They swap that out with a really image of a really student standing in front of one of their trucks with their company information there on the back again truck driving training company that's based in Chicago. The guys sweatshirt has the word Florida on it, so there's already confusion. But that changing just that one image increased their requests for info 161% and it increased their program registrations by 38%. Literally. Their revenue from that from that from that area went up 38%. And when I tell that to people in like in in credit union spaces and your presentations and stuff like that, they're like, Wow! And I asked him, How many do you want? 38% more revenue. Nobody's hands stay down. They all raised their hands in the air and wave them as if there are no consequences they get. They say, Yes, we want this. But then that's where you talked about the legacy thinking the reflectiveness and I have and but and I see them on their face and they come up to me afterwards and they say This sounds really good, But what if you photograph a member and they leave? What if you, you know, use real images of your employees and they leave And I'm like, What happens if you don't? And they leave anyway, you know, you're because what I found is that that's just fear talking is that? Oh my gosh, what if we highlight this person and they rob us? It's like, Well, you are gonna have that risk anyway, Me snapping a photo doesn't make them exponentially More likely, Thio ruin you. But when people see that they have, you have taken time. Actually put that human element in there That's huge from from the world of pharmaceuticals, because this has become kind of a This is connected with a larger project that I'm working on when it comes to visual storytelling that I wanna talk about here in a minute. The world of pharmaceuticals that was kind of this this ah ha moment back in 2017, when drugmaker Merck, for the first time ever in a large market in a large market advertising campaign used ah, photo and a story of a Rheal patient in their advertising. It was like it was like this, this unbelievable moment that their that their industry circulars we're talking about and people were starting to then follow started following suit because they knew the more people that saw Riel people using these actual interventions, the more likely they were for more comfortable with. And why can't we do that in our industry in financial services? And are they enough looking for the world of animation, the world of animation and computer graphics? There's a phenomenon called the Uncanny Valley They ever heard of it. No Uncanny Valley is Basically it says that in animation, if something is clearly a robot, we will not be very. It won't be creeped out if it's if it's clearly something like in the Pixar movie that's clearly a robot. But acting like a human being, we're not that weirded out by it. But the more that the automaton starts toe act and look more human but doesn't hit it, we there is. What's this dip in connection to that thing? The more something that's not human tries to pretend that it's human and and misses the mark were like Go away, right? So so and so the Go ahead. Go ahead, eso toe make that more rial for me.

Personally, I think it was the experience that I had when I watched The Lion King and I was confused, as was I watching something on the discovery or the Nat Geo Channel, or was I watching? And it really it put me in a comfortable situation. I'm not gonna lie mhm. And the way the where the research is going when when we when visual animators look at this and I'm looking at the quote, a compelling area for this research, it was what occurs when mismatches between the robots appearance and their behavior. And I think you could replace the word robot with financial institution. The level of disconnect between our appearance is being we're so connected and we're care about you. But our behavior and our image ing doesn't match up. We say that we're really we say that we want to be personalized, but our image ing completely contradicts that. That puts us squarely in this uncanny valley perceptually for our customers to think that there's something just not right there. They're they're just they're not walking the talk there that they don't believe what they're saying. We become cliche, we become ignored and even more so. We become kind of like you're the enemy. You're not working for me. All banks are bad. All of them should go away. What's the difference with credit unions? Or they're just a bank with a different kind of tax structure. We all get put in the same bucket. We all get put away because we're not really people can sense the disconnect between our words and our images. They see that difference and want no part of it. That Z that's is the Valley I think we're moving through right now. We can get our way out of and people are doing it, But it needs to happen faster. Technology has transformed our world, and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have Thio because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order a copy right Now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. I'm a process that for a little bit, because that is a really big problem. And I mean even the whole line like, yeah, it puts me in a comfortable situation. Something just doesn't feel right. Something seems off. And then I start to classify you the financial brand as the enemy, because now we can look at this as basic story structure, art type narrative. Let's like Joseph Campbell, the hero with 1000 faces There can on Lee be one hero in a story. The second hero that's introduced is always the antagonistic, the It's Darth Vader, the heroes Luke. But there's another very important role that has Thio have a story. So you have the hero of the anti hero, and then we have the guide. So if we're using images of the people in the communities are account holders are members are small businesses. We're positioning them as the heroes is the stories we tell, which makes it easier for us to take on the role of the helpful guide. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It does. And you know, that's we construct that...

...narrative. And when we especially now when people's narratives have been so radically disrupted when they're looking at their coverage and they're wondering, how am I going to be able to eat when business owners have this promise of Hey, you can get these loans and this assistance, But things are not working the way that they're supposed Thio they're looking for. They're gonna put okay, is this institution Are they my my guide or my villain? Because that's what the hero is going to dio. That's significant person that comes in. They're going to make that immediate decision. Is this person here to help me Or are they here to harm me? And in that hero's during the nuance there, the mentor, the guide figures, always a hero that's completed his journey and is now making more heroes. That's what that's what guides Dio the antagonistic, if you Will is a mentor or is a is a wannabe hero that refused mentor ship that refused any sort of guide, and you see that played out in literature all the time. So the extent to which that financial institutions issue any sort of any sort of guide, or people saying You need to get better at this because emperor, your naked and you need to cover some stuff up the extent to which the financial institutions especially are saying, don't know we got this. We know what our people want. Besides, those images really aren't that important anyway, because they're cheap. We could get 1000 images like three bucks. How you know, how difficult can it be? Those institutions that ignore guidance there, the villain in the story period 100% and the hero during his journey, the point where he dips where he goes almost to the dark side is when he fires his mentor. It always happens. Luke did it. Daniel didn't look any movie, that with a hero figure in it. And they will want to fire their guide. Why? Because the guide was bad because the guide was telling them something that the hero didn't want to hear. Force change. That's That's the inflection point that we're at right now. The organizations that we're going to take good advice from pros like you that realized guys were broken. We have an opportunity to just hit control. Ought to do something different. Those the ones they're going to make it the ones that think that Oh, what could possibly happen? How bad can this be? You will be. You are on the dust pile of history. You're already at the bottom of their wallet. You're soon going to be in the dustbin. You're just you're a dinosaur that's already died, and you don't realize that your next move is to fall down. That's the point that we're at right now. I'm gonna put my CFO had on my CEO had on once again and the like. Philosophically. I get it. I started to connect with you when you're talking those numbers with the moving company. Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna put some more numbers to that because I think in the study it was this moving company added $10,000 a month to the bottom line, $120,000 per year. Hypothetically speaking, we apply this thinking. We humanize our digital experience with real people, real stories, real videos. We do away with the shiny, happy stock people. Hypothetically, I invest $20,000 to just a product line that $20,000 though with that same type of thinking, becomes $120,000 over the course of a year. But then does that exponential factor because those stories and narratives have some life to them. Maybe a year, maybe two years. Then we come back and we revisit the current environment. Talk me through a process that I could think about bringing this type of perspective into my own financial brand, making it reality. So I would think that first of all, when we look at this kind of visual storytelling, this is we have to view it as something that is not optional, and I equate it to you it is your organisation's dress code on, I will ask anybody that says, Show me the r a. Y from this, which is a completely...

...valid concern because we're spending other people's money here. I'm going to come back and say, What's the R O y of your dress code? What's the R a y of pants? Tell me that. Tell me what the return on investment is of your corporate image. Can they quantify that? And I will. And I have asked this question of financial services leaders. They've been like, Well, can. We haven't done that, But it's just the right thing to do. We want to differentiate ourselves and said, This is the same thing. This is no different. This is your organisation's uniforms. Is your visual images here? The second person, the second data point that I'm gonna put up in front of them is a friend of mine named Dave Club Bitter. He's the chief marketing officer of Do Paco Credit Union in Iowa, of the largest credit unions in the country, about the world. And he had a great quote that I said in one of my Siris of articles that they completely got rid of stock photos completely, all using just all real members, all real images. And he embraced the power of the visual story time. But then he went on to say this. He said Riel photographs can convey potential vulnerabilities. Absolutely for a brand to throw it all out there to be real conveys a huge amount of wait for it. Trust members not only trust, do Paco with their money, but act in their best interest. And here's the killer line. I think this is largely responsible for nearly 10% net member growth. Last year they changed their images and they get and they grow. Now I will gladly have people to say That's one data point in one area. But I'm going to ask them if you were a real person yet you did not know May if you had, would you rather interact with a stock, A stock? You know this this generic representation of you? What do you want? Me? Which one do you want? Same thing and the other. The other example that I use is that when I go to your house, let's say you invite me over for dinner. We're talking about this. When I walk through your house, am I going to see images on your walls? And you're in your frames Are the stock images that came with the frames? Now you're gonna have real photos in there of you. If you kept up even one frame of a generic image, this kind of seem a little bit weird. That's your own home. You took time and effort to decorate it with who you are. And so I'm gonna ask them, Walk me through the logic that says that you could decorate your homes and personal images that invite me in. But even one image of something that's not you that's generic and unreal. That's gonna be weird. Walk me through the logic that says You can do that at your own house, but not of your organization. I'll wait, and that may sound really like aggressive, but I think that's the point that we need to get to. That's the equivalence that we started. Need to start those with connections we need to start making because I don't think any. I don't think any other thing is really going to rest. I mean, it really is. This is the moment of truth. This is the dip. This is the call to action to where some tough choices have to be made of how we're going to move forward. I'm gonna pose this from another perspective. What happens if we don't take action? What happens if we remain the same? How much will that cost us? Gosh, here's the interesting thing. I think that in many ways we have nowhere to go but up. E think if many many folks I think you will have is many compelling arguments to stay where they are, then you will have for people to say, Yeah, we're going to change. I think there will be some organizations that air happy with. Okay, Yeah, we didn't make the change and we really didn't see a difference. And we're actually seeing more people because, you know, for for whatever reason, I think it's still gonna be catastrophic. I still think it's going to be a catastrophic opportunity to really gain the trust of our membership that gain the trust of our customers, not to say nothing of our employees. That's the other unkind of unmentioned element in all of this, our most important assets. They don't appear anywhere in our sights. We don't talk about the good work that they dio. Jim Nussle, the head of the Credit Union National Association, has it has eat equated banker's credit and...

...professional. He's called the Financial first Responders, and I think that is a brilliant way of entering into this. If we're not honoring them, if you are saying that is that you are much more comfortable doing a five second search for a stock photo. Shiny happy people punching and things on the computer versus actually saying, Hey, Linda, over there in accounting or member services or in commercial banking or whatever, walk me through your day. Can I sit with you for a day? And I can just on my phone, just take images of how the hard work that you're doing. If you're willing as an organization to tell me that you're not worth this the few hours of effort, why should I want to continue to work with you? It's that tacit way of saying that, yeah, we're These are all corporate buzzwords, but we don't really believe it, you know, s So I think it's a it's a failure at a human level. I don't know how you can qualify that it's a failure at a human level. And if we have financial institution professionals are not willing to admit that and we should get out of this industry. We're doing it for the wrong reasons. What you just cute in on from Jim Financial First responder. I've been talking about the same things with the financial brands way advise because right now we're in the midst of the cove in 19 health crisis very quickly Following that is, if it's not already begun. Is the Koven 19 financial health crisis. I've heard nurses. I've heard doctors say that this health crisis, this is why we train. This is this is our Super Bowl moment. The same is gonna be true for us in financial services. This is why we train. This is why we do what we do. This is this health financial health crisis is our Super Bowl moment. I know that you've been working to document some of these health care worker stories. Uh, there's the same opportunity to do that for financial brands as well. Absolutely. And I would I would jump at the chance to do that I mean, obviously social distancing. If they, their entire call center, just wants to come up to the window, I'll take a picture of him. It doesn't matter. It's what motivates somebody to leave their family toe, leave that cocoon of safety and go in and process the payroll protection program loans thes e ideals, thes answering businesses, questions about how we're going to stay in business, answering someone's question about how we're going to keep paying the bills, the level of expertise that we have sitting in our organizations right now, the the she level of brain power that they're having to to apply to these situations while also at the same time asking the same questions off their own world. But keeping a professional and serving other people in the same boat that they are. It is extraordinary, and I am one. I would jump at the chance to tell those kind of stories, and we, as again, we we as an industry completely financial services as a whole. We owe it to those folks to be able to say you busted your butt to try and work from home while trying toe help your kid do their school from home. I'll try to be a good husband and wife and provider while also trying to provide a seamless level of care for our members and customers. There needs to be that level of honoring because, like you said, that devastation, that financial devastation that people are experiencing right now has been going on for many, many years and other populations. We just haven't seen it yet because he had. We haven't wanna talk about the human toll money is the last thing that we want to talk about. Money is the last thing that we that most people will talk about in polite conversation. And I think that Band Aid is starting to get ripped off. We use financial institutions, have the the profound opportunity to prove that we love people, and we use money to do it and not the other way around. How brave are we to be able to step into that space? That's the challenge of laying out there. You know, I I love it on,...

...but it is a big challenge to take action and respond to heed the call, if you will, to your point money, it's yeah, having having money conversations is very hard. We've done research for financial brands to where you know people are looking for, like toe have judgment free conversations. There was a study done by Fintech player Honey Fi to where they found that it's easier for couples to talk about sex than it is to talk about money. Money is really the thread it affect our physical well being. It effects are physical, well being are emotional, well being are like are relational well being. So as we wrap up and thank you for everything that this has been such a wonderful conversation, you have a beautiful mind. What is that one thing that you can recommend? Financial brands Leadership teams Marketing team sells teams to think about not only think about but to take action on over the next 12 months. I take some inspiration from the Navy Seals because they're cool, and then the Navy seals and that's and that's that's just awesome. But they were saying in the Navy, seals aim small miss small in marksmanship. If you try and may say I'm gonna is gonna hit that whole target, you're gonna miss it. But if you go to a very small, very small section of the target. You're gonna hit it? I would say to any financial grand to say, Look, you don't have to throw out your entire stock portfolio. Let's start with one member one story on on one element of your website, one employee story or just say, put a video camera in front of them, were still camera just had to take a selfie of what their day is. Watch what happens to the engagement when you just throw that one little thing out there. Ah, moving company did it with one image. We can start small. And it's not just for your social media platforms that I wanna be very clear about this. This is your front door is your website. Start small and watch it grow. Watch how people's demand goes to it. This isn't this catastrophic change. We've had enough change, for God's sakes. But if when you just start small with those every with those incredible people that are funding you that air that you're helping start small and grow out from there, you're going to see that. How can you go back to that world that was shiny and happy and polished. We're moving to a world now and you've seen this where we've said, Hey, I don't want slick and produced. If it's my favorite artist is doing their TV show from their basement with one light and some really crappy audio That's okay because it's it's still them. We can throw out the quality argument now. We still need to have a have a good product, obviously. But that, I think, has been the last excuse. The people have said that Oh, well, we stock photos all look unified. People don't want unity so much that they want connection. They want to be able to look at somebody like C. S. Lewis did his definition of friendship to say what you to I thought I was the only one. That is our call is to show that you're not alone and that we're here to help. But there's also community of people there, there, in that same boat as you are there cheering you want just as much as you are them. Start small with one on. Let that fire grow. That's how we change. Speaking of you're not alone. Someone listening to this wants to connect with you continue the conversation. Say hello. What is the best way for them to do that? I'd be honored. It's in the website that you've had up there the entire time. Andy Jannik photo dot com That's my photo and videography portfolio, along with all the topics on which I speak. They connect with me there. They could also find in all the social media channels at my name. Andy jamming Andy. Hey, thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it on another episode of banking on Digital Growth. Appreciate, Brother. Thank you so much until next time be Well, do good on...

Wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley. Like what you hear. Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on Apple podcasts, Google Podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even. Mawr Practical and proven insights. Visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James Roberts bestselling book Banking on Digital Growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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