Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

44) #ExponentialInsights: The Role of Images in Financial Brand Storytelling w/ Andy Janning


The first two questions we ask a prospective customer are:

  • Do you feel like you can trust this institution?
  • How does what you're looking at on the website make you feel?

Financial brands that use stock photography almost inevitably raise a red flag. Yet about 9 in 10 financial brand websites show at least one stock photo.

In this episode of Banking on Digital Growth, I talk with Andy Janning, president and CEO at NO NET Solutions, about the role of images in financial brand storytelling.

Andy and I discuss:

  • Why it's important to have a conversation around imagery
  • How images, pictures, and videos communicate empathy
  • The critical value of taking action on imagery in financial brand storytelling

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

...we will make a determination about animage about what it is literally within 15 milliseconds, and by way ofcomparison, the human eye blinks at about 300 milliseconds. You're listening to banking on DigitalGrowth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toeexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings inHello, I am James Robert Ley and welcome to another episode of theBanking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight Siri's and I'm excited to welcome Andy jamming to theshow because Andy has been doing such good work as a storyteller forfinancial brands now for for almost 30 years. Welcome to the show, Andy. Thankyou so much. James Roberts. Pleasure to be here. So you've been in financialservices 30 years, But really, what I want to focus in on is the work thatyou've been doing as a storyteller, as a photographer as a videographer overthe last 12 months really has a researcher and anthropologist becauseyou've been looking at one of the most important areas really now more thanever before in a Post Cove in 19 World. And that is around the use of images,photography, video and the stories that financial brands are tellingconsciously, but probably more subconsciously based upon the use ofimages. Let's talk about first and foremost why this is important to evenhave a conversation around because it seems so nuanced and simple, right?Well, it should. And but for me that, you know, kind of going along this pathover. Like you said over almost the last three decades, being in financialservices has really become very near and dear to me. And it started about 1011 years ago when a mutual friend of ours, Denise Wymore, was speaking at asupposing that both you and I were at and she was talking about the plaguethat is stock photography in financial service. At the time, I was working fora credit union working as leading up their talent development efforts andthat really it really resonated with me because you know, when I my world isprimarily in the talent development world, but also a lot in the marketingworld. But there's a lot of interconnection there because bothareas air trying to get people's attention to try and change theirbehavior. And so when Denise was talking about that, I was like, That'sreally interesting. So emerged a lot about the human element of financialservices and visual storytelling, which I love, but, you know, with working andjust life, all of that I was like, Okay, that's great. But when I started mybusiness over eight years ago, I started doing a lot of keynotepresentations and talking about talent, development and storytelling and humandevelopment. This element of photography and visual storytellingstarted kept creeping back in there, and I kept coming back to what Denisewas saying about. We need to do a better job of visually representing whowe are not just this generic, you know, ideal ized persona that nobody connectswith, and it really hit home. Last year, when I was key noting and all employeespresentation for credit union up in Michigan, I was driving back home and Ijust have the random thought like we all have on road trips. We askedourselves weird questions and I started asking myself this whole, you know,photography thing. I started asking myself literally the question. How manymembers and employees actually appear in photos in credit union website?Because that's, you know, the world in which I I rotated most most directly,and I ask myself how many of them...

...appear in that? And does it reallymatter? And that literally waas just slightly over a year ago and that wantthose to questions basically kicked off for me, a crazy project to pulltogether a group of people that we had high hopes. Look at every single imageon every single website inside the credit. It's based to see how we arevisually telling our story. And what we found was in some ways confirmationalot of some of the instinctual reactions we have to how we havedefaulted in our in our visual storytelling, but also opened up somereally interesting insights but also some opportunities for us. It'sfinancial services. Professionals like you mentioned even more so now, andthese uncertain times, which everybody says. But it's a time where people wantHey, are you really for me? You say that your personal you say that youcare about me, prove it. This is our time to prove it. Yeah, that's why thisresearch is really important to me. It's not only important to you, it'simportant to me, and I recommend it be important to any financial brand leader.Leadership Team, Board of Directors Marketing Team Sells team Because Iremember that conversation with Denise and her words were pretty strong. She'sWe need to kill all the shiny happy stock people on websites today and it'snot only a credit union problem, it's also a community bank problem becausethe message is that which we convey. I've been advocating for financialbrands to simplify their digital communication strategies, take out 80%of the content and the copy used in photographs. But more importantly,focus in on the stories that you're telling with the images of the peopleon your website. Because digital growth is a two sided equation. One hand. Wehave the digital experience, but on the other hand we have the human experiencewhich is made up of help and hope, but it's multiplied by empathy. How to doimages, pictures, videos. How does that communicate? Empathy subconsciously. Soif you look at, if you look at the research, when you look at literallyhow people's eyes move through websites, and when you look at the visualinformation on there, we will make a determination about an image about whatit is literally within 15 milliseconds. And by way of comparison, the human eyeblinks at about 300 milliseconds, So we'll look at an image that we willimmediately decide. Is it riel and is it relevant? And those eye trackingstudies show that if they if the image is, has no connection to what's beingpresented, people will ignore. But if there's actual real faces of realpeople with the real connection to what the institution is presenting, then thekey on key on it, they'll connect with it, and they'll they're really sinkinto it. The problem with that is that being able to craft a portfolio ofimages, I think organizationally people have convinced themselves that it'sreally difficulty. It's really time consuming. And what's the big deal?Everybody uses stock, so why not just do it. Stock photography. Me for me.It's kind of like the Tiger King off of photographer of visual storytelling.Now, in financial services. We didn't wanna look at it. We didn't know thatwe really even, you know, really even needed it. Everybody else was doing it,though, so we thought, How bad could it be? Eight episodes in. We now have verystrong opinions on a, you know, a zookeeper that we never met before andwhether or not he paid somebody to kill another rival zookeeper. All that tosay is this We didn't plan to get here if you would've asked any financialservices professional. Hey, when you sit down on day one, I want you to be ageneric as possible. I want you to be forgettable, and I want you to do yourjob with the lowest bar of effort.

Nobody would do that. But when we havewould do the the churn and the energy of our work, we get so pressed down andmargins get so squeezed that the first two areas to go when things get tight,there's talent, development and marketing. They're the last to know inthe first to go because we haven't for whatever reason, being able to showthat strong link between what we put out there and what we get back isinextricably intermingled. So the extent to which that we a storytellersand all of us are the extent to which we have storytellers can connect withthe people whose money were spending and saying, This is the effect that wehave. This is a This is a critical thing. The critical question for me is,Do we use banks and credit unions? Love our members are and our customers, ordo we just love their stuff? And that's a tough question, and we can talk abouthow much we care for our people. All we want Thio. But are we really caring forthem, or do we just care what they're going to give us? And I think I thinkthe answer. That question is found a lot in our visual storytelling, andthat's not a comfortable conversation. But it's a necessary one for us to keepour relevant to keep us relevant. Going forward. Yes, because I can tell youyou talked about the studies of the eye tracking. We've actually donequantitative and qualitative. We do quarterly secret shopping for financialbrands. And one of the very first questions that we ask to a consumer whodoes not have a relationship with said Financial Brand is Do you feel like youcan trust this institution first and then second? How does what you'relooking at? How does it make you feel? And I can tell you, without a doubt thefinancial brands that are utilizing stock photography stock image alwaysraises a red flag. You can. They might. A consumer might not verbalize it, butyou can hear it in totality. You can hear it in the adjectives that they use.So this is more important, as I said before now than ever before. Why?Because Cova 19, and in a Post Cove in 19 World digital digital shopping fourfinancial brands will continue to increase in strategic prominence andimportance because people will not go back to acting banking the way they didbefore. And they shouldn't way have this hugeopportunity to be able to show that we are riel, that we're not just thisother, this other commodity that we do honestly care about who they are, and Ithink that we have. We've lost our way a little bit in that that we think thatif we just throw up enough images that people will get it, they really don'tcare. They really don't look at him anyway. You're right. What you'reputting out there people don't care about. But when you connected to thereal mission of what really people actually do, real people will payattention. It will. There will be more time and effort into it. Absolutely.But from the data that we've seen, you know, this is I think you know what oneperson, you know, 10, 11 years ago that we heard described. It's something thatwe need to get rid of. I have the data to back it up that it is a plague inour industry, and the first organization to steer clear from it intheir market will win. So the second one. So the third one, it will just itwill go. It will flow like a flow like a river. But it's gonna be a hardrevolution, because people they're going to think that it's not reallyit's different. We Why should we do it? Yeah, I think that's I think we'remissing an opportunity if we don't if we ignore it. Yeah, I mean one studythat in looking into this before the conversation was from Harvard BusinessReview, and they found that faces of people who look like us releaseoxytocin or that feel good chemical that promotes connection. That's the HX. That's the human experience...

...delivered digitally. So let's talk alittle bit about some of the findings because you guys looked at almost 1400credit union websites around 52,000 images. So there's a lot that went intothis research. It wasn't something that you did in a day. What were some of thekey findings and what were some of the things that may be surprised you goinga little bit deeper. So one of things that we found was that the photos ofreal people were almost non existent. They were only about 3.5% of the totalnumber of website photos that we that we found and of those we viewed in oursince we're looking just a credit unions. But I would I would hazard aguess that this isn't just a credit union problem that almost 84% of thecredit union websites we visited don't have a single image of an actual memberfor an actual employee. They're just not there. Photos of Riel employees arealmost as rare. They're only about 12% of the total photos that have been putout there. So they're vanishingly small are quote unquote. Most important assetis an inconvenient abstraction when it comes to the messages that were sharingout there and that 70% of the photos that we found were stock and 91% of theWeb sites that we visited had at least one stock photo, which means that we'regiving our members and our customers tens of thousands of excuses to ignoreus tens of thousands of opportunities to just basically put us in thewoodpile and just not and think that we're just the same as everybody else.And that was shocking to me that this is that this is this prevalent and it'stoo soon. I think you know, I would love to be able to say that. You know,I know exactly why these things aren't happening, and I that was gonna take alot more research and a lot more study. But I think if you were to ask any 10financial services professionals, leaders, marketers, whoever and askthem which one's easier to get a real photo on a real story of a real member,or just go on to Adobe stock and download something that looks vaguelysimilar, we're gonna go to Adobe Stock every time because they because there'sso much pressure, there's so much business that we've for gotten thepeople that actually make all of the possible. So I wanna hypothesize alittle bit with you about why this is a problem based upon what we're seeingthrough our digital growth diagnostic studies and working with financialbrands. Number one. It's a purpose problem. Um, and what I mean by that isthe traditional mission and vision statements of the financial brand, ourlittle internal facing or maybe there are a lot internal facing theirclinical. They're rooted in legacy. The opportunity, though, is to create anexternal facing purpose statement that has surrounded or that surrounds thepeople of the communities that a financial brand serves because thatwould make it so much easier to make the investment in what I would callthis evergreen content, whether it be a visual, whether it be a story, whetherit be a video. And you actually are kind of working through a very specificprocess to develop evergreen content around specific product lines toe whereI do something once. But it creates exponential value over a much longerperiod of time. Yeah, I might be a little bit harder. Might cost a littlebit more than go into adobe stock, But I'm a CEO. I'm a CFO. I want to knowthat this is going to help me get more loans and and take more deposits inyour study. Well, I wanna talk about this first, and then we'll come backthio the process opportunities. But in your studies, you noted that there wasa I think it was Ah, Was it a moving... Yeah. Yeah, So this there's amoving company that literally they change one image on one on one of theirpages, and I'm pulling up the data here just so I could make sure that I had it.They swapped out a stock image on the front page of their website and this isthis is this? A truck driving school stop swapped out a perfectly composed,very nice, very boring stock photo of a guy driving a truck. They swap that outwith a really image of a really student standing in front of one of theirtrucks with their company information there on the back again truck drivingtraining company that's based in Chicago. The guys sweatshirt has theword Florida on it, so there's already confusion. But that changing just thatone image increased their requests for info 161% and it increased theirprogram registrations by 38%. Literally. Their revenue from that from that fromthat area went up 38%. And when I tell that to people in like in in creditunion spaces and your presentations and stuff like that, they're like, Wow! AndI asked him, How many do you want? 38% more revenue. Nobody's hands stay down.They all raised their hands in the air and wave them as if there are noconsequences they get. They say, Yes, we want this. But then that's where youtalked about the legacy thinking the reflectiveness and I have and but and Isee them on their face and they come up to me afterwards and they say Thissounds really good, But what if you photograph a member and they leave?What if you, you know, use real images of your employees and they leave AndI'm like, What happens if you don't? And they leave anyway, you know, you'rebecause what I found is that that's just fear talking is that? Oh my gosh,what if we highlight this person and they rob us? It's like, Well, you aregonna have that risk anyway, Me snapping a photo doesn't make themexponentially More likely, Thio ruin you. But when people see that they have,you have taken time. Actually put that human element in there That's huge fromfrom the world of pharmaceuticals, because this has become kind of a Thisis connected with a larger project that I'm working on when it comes to visualstorytelling that I wanna talk about here in a minute. The world ofpharmaceuticals that was kind of this this ah ha moment back in 2017, whendrugmaker Merck, for the first time ever in a large market in a largemarket advertising campaign used ah, photo and a story of a Rheal patient intheir advertising. It was like it was like this, this unbelievable momentthat their that their industry circulars we're talking about andpeople were starting to then follow started following suit because theyknew the more people that saw Riel people using these actual interventions,the more likely they were for more comfortable with. And why can't we do that in ourindustry in financial services? And are theyenough looking for the world of animation, the world of animation andcomputer graphics? There's a phenomenon called the Uncanny Valley They everheard of it. No Uncanny Valley is Basically it says that in animation, ifsomething is clearly a robot, we will not be very. It won't be creeped out ifit's if it's clearly something like in the Pixar movie that's clearly a robot.But acting like a human being, we're not that weirded out by it. But themore that the automaton starts toe act and look more human but doesn't hit it,we there is. What's this dip in connection to that thing? The moresomething that's not human tries to pretend that it's human and and missesthe mark were like Go away, right? So so and so the Go ahead. Go ahead, esotoe make that more rial for me.

Personally, I think it was theexperience that I had when I watched The Lion King and I was confused, aswas I watching something on the discovery or the Nat Geo Channel, orwas I watching? And it really it put me in a comfortable situation. I'm notgonna lie mhm. And the way the where the research is going when when we whenvisual animators look at this and I'm looking at the quote, a compelling areafor this research, it was what occurs when mismatches between the robotsappearance and their behavior. And I think you could replace the word robotwith financial institution. The level of disconnect between our appearance isbeing we're so connected and we're care about you. But our behavior and ourimage ing doesn't match up. We say that we're really we say that we want to bepersonalized, but our image ing completely contradicts that. That putsus squarely in this uncanny valley perceptually for our customers to thinkthat there's something just not right there. They're they're just they're notwalking the talk there that they don't believe what they're saying. We becomecliche, we become ignored and even more so. We become kind of like you're theenemy. You're not working for me. All banks are bad. All of them should goaway. What's the difference with credit unions? Or they're just a bank with adifferent kind of tax structure. We all get put in the same bucket. We all getput away because we're not really people can sense the disconnect betweenour words and our images. They see that difference and want no part of it. ThatZ that's is the Valley I think we're moving through right now. We can getour way out of and people are doing it, But it needs to happen faster.Technology has transformed our world, and digital has changed the wayconsumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now, consumers makepurchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into abranch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits.We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing frustrating and overwhelmingfor any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have Thiobecause James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the wayalong your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growth dot com toget a preview of his best selling book, Banking on Digital Growth, or order acopy right Now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find astrategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands,and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start usingtoday to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back tothe show. I'm a process that for a little bit, because that is a reallybig problem. And I mean even the whole line like, yeah, it puts me in acomfortable situation. Something just doesn't feel right. Something seems off.And then I start to classify you the financial brand as the enemy, becausenow we can look at this as basic story structure, art type narrative. Let'slike Joseph Campbell, the hero with 1000 faces There can on Lee be one heroin a story. The second hero that's introduced is always the antagonistic,the It's Darth Vader, the heroes Luke. But there's another very important rolethat has Thio have a story. So you have the hero of the anti hero, and then wehave the guide. So if we're using images of the people in the communitiesare account holders are members are small businesses. We're positioningthem as the heroes is the stories we tell, which makes it easier for us totake on the role of the helpful guide. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It does. Andyou know, that's we construct that...

...narrative. And when we especially nowwhen people's narratives have been so radically disrupted when they'relooking at their coverage and they're wondering, how am I going to be able toeat when business owners have this promise of Hey, you can get these loansand this assistance, But things are not working the way that they're supposedThio they're looking for. They're gonna put okay, is this institution Are theymy my guide or my villain? Because that's what the hero is going to dio.That's significant person that comes in. They're going to make that immediatedecision. Is this person here to help me Or are they here to harm me? And inthat hero's during the nuance there, the mentor, the guide figures, always ahero that's completed his journey and is now making more heroes. That's whatthat's what guides Dio the antagonistic, if you Will is a mentor or is a is awannabe hero that refused mentor ship that refused any sort of guide, and yousee that played out in literature all the time. So the extent to which thatfinancial institutions issue any sort of any sort of guide, or people sayingYou need to get better at this because emperor, your naked and you need tocover some stuff up the extent to which the financial institutions especiallyare saying, don't know we got this. We know what our people want. Besides,those images really aren't that important anyway, because they're cheap.We could get 1000 images like three bucks. How you know, how difficult canit be? Those institutions that ignore guidance there, the villain in thestory period 100% and the hero during his journey, the point where he dipswhere he goes almost to the dark side is when he fires his mentor. It alwayshappens. Luke did it. Daniel didn't look any movie, that with a hero figurein it. And they will want to fire their guide. Why? Because the guide was badbecause the guide was telling them something that the hero didn't want tohear. Force change. That's That's the inflection point that we're at rightnow. The organizations that we're going to take good advice from pros like youthat realized guys were broken. We have an opportunity to just hit control.Ought to do something different. Those the ones they're going to make it theones that think that Oh, what could possibly happen? How bad can this be?You will be. You are on the dust pile of history. You're already at thebottom of their wallet. You're soon going to be in the dustbin. You're justyou're a dinosaur that's already died, and you don't realize that your nextmove is to fall down. That's the point that we're at right now. I'm gonna putmy CFO had on my CEO had on once again and the like. Philosophically. I get it.I started to connect with you when you're talking those numbers with themoving company. Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna put some more numbers to that because Ithink in the study it was this moving company added $10,000 a month to thebottom line, $120,000 per year. Hypothetically speaking, we apply thisthinking. We humanize our digital experience with real people, realstories, real videos. We do away with the shiny, happy stock people.Hypothetically, I invest $20,000 to just a product line that $20,000 thoughwith that same type of thinking, becomes $120,000 over the course of ayear. But then does that exponential factor because those stories andnarratives have some life to them. Maybe a year, maybe two years. Then wecome back and we revisit the current environment. Talk me through a processthat I could think about bringing this type of perspective into my ownfinancial brand, making it reality. So I would think that first of all, whenwe look at this kind of visual storytelling, this is we have to viewit as something that is not optional, and I equate it to you it is yourorganisation's dress code on, I will ask anybody that says, Show me the r a.Y from this, which is a completely...

...valid concern because we're spendingother people's money here. I'm going to come back and say, What's the R O y ofyour dress code? What's the R a y of pants? Tell me that. Tell me what thereturn on investment is of your corporate image. Can they quantify that?And I will. And I have asked this question of financial services leaders.They've been like, Well, can. We haven't done that, But it's just theright thing to do. We want to differentiate ourselves and said, Thisis the same thing. This is no different. This is your organisation's uniforms.Is your visual images here? The second person, the second data point that I'mgonna put up in front of them is a friend of mine named Dave Club Bitter.He's the chief marketing officer of Do Paco Credit Union in Iowa, of thelargest credit unions in the country, about the world. And he had a greatquote that I said in one of my Siris of articles that they completely got ridof stock photos completely, all using just all real members, all real images.And he embraced the power of the visual story time. But then he went on to saythis. He said Riel photographs can convey potential vulnerabilities.Absolutely for a brand to throw it all out there to be real conveys a hugeamount of wait for it. Trust members not only trust, do Paco with theirmoney, but act in their best interest. And here's the killer line. I thinkthis is largely responsible for nearly 10% net member growth. Last year theychanged their images and they get and they grow. Now I will gladly havepeople to say That's one data point in one area. But I'm going to ask them ifyou were a real person yet you did not know May if you had, would you ratherinteract with a stock, A stock? You know this this generic representationof you? What do you want? Me? Which one do you want? Same thing and the other.The other example that I use is that when I go to your house, let's say youinvite me over for dinner. We're talking about this. When I walk throughyour house, am I going to see images on your walls? And you're in your framesAre the stock images that came with the frames? Now you're gonna have realphotos in there of you. If you kept up even one frame of a generic image, thiskind of seem a little bit weird. That's your own home. You took time and effortto decorate it with who you are. And so I'm gonna ask them, Walk me through thelogic that says that you could decorate your homes and personal images thatinvite me in. But even one image of something that's not you that's genericand unreal. That's gonna be weird. Walk me through the logic that says You cando that at your own house, but not of your organization. I'll wait, and thatmay sound really like aggressive, but I think that's the point that we need toget to. That's the equivalence that we started. Need to start those withconnections we need to start making because I don't think any. I don'tthink any other thing is really going to rest. I mean, it really is. This isthe moment of truth. This is the dip. This is the call to action to wheresome tough choices have to be made of how we're going to move forward. I'mgonna pose this from another perspective. What happens if we don'ttake action? What happens if we remain the same? How much will that cost us? Gosh, here's the interesting thing. Ithink that in many ways we have nowhere to go but up. E think if many manyfolks I think you will have is many compelling arguments to stay where theyare, then you will have for people to say, Yeah, we're going to change. Ithink there will be some organizations that air happy with. Okay, Yeah, wedidn't make the change and we really didn't see a difference. And we'reactually seeing more people because, you know, for for whatever reason, I think it's still gonna becatastrophic. I still think it's going to be a catastrophic opportunity toreally gain the trust of our membership that gain the trust of our customers,not to say nothing of our employees. That's the other unkind of unmentionedelement in all of this, our most important assets. They don't appearanywhere in our sights. We don't talk about the good work that they dio. JimNussle, the head of the Credit Union National Association, has it has eatequated banker's credit and...

...professional. He's called the Financialfirst Responders, and I think that is a brilliant way of entering into this. Ifwe're not honoring them, if you are saying that is that you are much morecomfortable doing a five second search for a stock photo. Shiny happy peoplepunching and things on the computer versus actually saying, Hey, Linda,over there in accounting or member services or in commercial banking orwhatever, walk me through your day. Can I sit with you for a day? And I canjust on my phone, just take images of how the hard work that you're doing. Ifyou're willing as an organization to tell me that you're not worth this thefew hours of effort, why should I want to continue to work with you? It's thattacit way of saying that, yeah, we're These are all corporate buzzwords, butwe don't really believe it, you know, s So I think it's a it's a failure at ahuman level. I don't know how you can qualify that it's a failure at a humanlevel. And if we have financial institution professionals are notwilling to admit that and we should get out of this industry. We're doing itfor the wrong reasons. What you just cute in on from Jim Financial Firstresponder. I've been talking about the same things with the financial brandsway advise because right now we're in the midst of the cove in 19 healthcrisis very quickly Following that is, if it's not already begun. Is the Koven19 financial health crisis. I've heard nurses. I've heard doctors say thatthis health crisis, this is why we train. This is this is our Super Bowlmoment. The same is gonna be true for us in financial services. This is whywe train. This is why we do what we do. This is this health financial healthcrisis is our Super Bowl moment. I know that you've been working to documentsome of these health care worker stories. Uh, there's the sameopportunity to do that for financial brands as well. Absolutely. And I wouldI would jump at the chance to do that I mean, obviously social distancing. Ifthey, their entire call center, just wants to come up to the window, I'lltake a picture of him. It doesn't matter. It's what motivates somebody toleave their family toe, leave that cocoon of safety and go in and processthe payroll protection program loans thes e ideals, thes answeringbusinesses, questions about how we're going to stay in business, answeringsomeone's question about how we're going to keep paying the bills, thelevel of expertise that we have sitting in our organizations right now, the theshe level of brain power that they're having to to apply to these situationswhile also at the same time asking the same questions off their own world. Butkeeping a professional and serving other people in the same boat that theyare. It is extraordinary, and I am one. I would jump at the chance to tellthose kind of stories, and we, as again, we we as an industry completelyfinancial services as a whole. We owe it to those folks to be able to say youbusted your butt to try and work from home while trying toe help your kid dotheir school from home. I'll try to be a good husband and wife and providerwhile also trying to provide a seamless level of care for our members andcustomers. There needs to be that level of honoring because, like you said,that devastation, that financial devastation that people areexperiencing right now has been going on for many, many years and otherpopulations. We just haven't seen it yet because he had. We haven't wannatalk about the human toll money is the last thing that we want to talk about.Money is the last thing that we that most people will talk about in politeconversation. And I think that Band Aid is starting to get ripped off. We usefinancial institutions, have the the profound opportunity to prove that welove people, and we use money to do it and not the other way around. How braveare we to be able to step into that space? That's the challenge of layingout there. You know, I I love it on,...

...but it is a big challenge to takeaction and respond to heed the call, if you will, to your point money, it'syeah, having having money conversations is very hard. We've done research forfinancial brands to where you know people are looking for, like toe havejudgment free conversations. There was a study done by Fintech player Honey Fito where they found that it's easier for couples to talk about sex than itis to talk about money. Money is really the thread it affect our physical wellbeing. It effects are physical, well being are emotional, well being arelike are relational well being. So as we wrap up and thank you for everythingthat this has been such a wonderful conversation, you have a beautiful mind.What is that one thing that you can recommend? Financial brands Leadershipteams Marketing team sells teams to think about not only think about but totake action on over the next 12 months. I take some inspiration from the NavySeals because they're cool, and then the Navy seals and that's and that'sthat's just awesome. But they were saying in the Navy, seals aim smallmiss small in marksmanship. If you try and may say I'm gonna is gonna hit thatwhole target, you're gonna miss it. But if you go to a very small, very smallsection of the target. You're gonna hit it? I would say to any financial grandto say, Look, you don't have to throw out your entire stock portfolio. Let'sstart with one member one story on on one element of your website, oneemployee story or just say, put a video camera in front of them, were stillcamera just had to take a selfie of what their day is. Watch what happensto the engagement when you just throw that one little thing out there. Ah,moving company did it with one image. We can start small. And it's not justfor your social media platforms that I wanna be very clear about this. This isyour front door is your website. Start small and watch it grow. Watch howpeople's demand goes to it. This isn't this catastrophic change. We've hadenough change, for God's sakes. But if when you just start small with thoseevery with those incredible people that are funding you that air that you'rehelping start small and grow out from there, you're going to see that. Howcan you go back to that world that was shiny and happy and polished. We'removing to a world now and you've seen this where we've said, Hey, I don'twant slick and produced. If it's my favorite artist is doing their TV showfrom their basement with one light and some really crappy audio That's okaybecause it's it's still them. We can throw out the quality argument now. Westill need to have a have a good product, obviously. But that, I think,has been the last excuse. The people have said that Oh, well, we stockphotos all look unified. People don't want unity so much that they wantconnection. They want to be able to look at somebody like C. S. Lewis didhis definition of friendship to say what you to I thought I was the onlyone. That is our call is to show that you're not alone and that we're here tohelp. But there's also community of people there, there, in that same boatas you are there cheering you want just as much as you are them. Start smallwith one on. Let that fire grow. That's how we change. Speaking of you're notalone. Someone listening to this wants to connect with you continue theconversation. Say hello. What is the best way for them to do that? I'd behonored. It's in the website that you've had up there the entire time.Andy Jannik photo dot com That's my photo and videography portfolio, alongwith all the topics on which I speak. They connect with me there. They couldalso find in all the social media channels at my name. Andy jamming Andy.Hey, thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it on another episodeof banking on Digital Growth. Appreciate, Brother. Thank you so muchuntil next time be Well, do good on...

Wash your hands. Thank you forlistening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley.Like what you hear. Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review onApple podcasts, Google Podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you'rethere to get even. Mawr Practical and proven insights. Visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to grab a preview of James Roberts bestselling book Bankingon Digital Growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon.Inside, you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good.

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