Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 9 months ago

56) #ExponentialInsights: How Payments UX Can Catch Up to Digital Transformation w/ Michael Bank & Seth Fenster

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When’s the last time you went into a bank to pay bills? 

Even if that’s your preferred method of payment, the pandemic has probably brought it to a screeching halt. 

In this Exponential Insights episode of Banking On Digital Growth, James Robert Lay chats with Blip co-founders, Michael Bank and Seth Fenster, about improving payments UX. They also discuss…  

  • How accelerated digital transformation has affected financial institutions
  • Ways banks can appeal to the digitally native consumer
  • How Blip helps financial institutions improve customer experiences 

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

...if I'm budgeting off of what I'vealready done, it's just not as helpful to me, you know, on a go forward basis.And so when we're taking a forward look at users upcoming bills, that's reallywhere we're able to provide, You know, more proactive financial advice aroundmaking positive changes. Mhm. Mhm. You're listening to Banking on DigitalGrowth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing,sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential bygenerating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight Siri's, where James Robert interviews the industry'stop marketing sales, and Fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom toeexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James RobertLey and welcome to the 56 episodes of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast.Today's episode is part of the exponential insight, Siri's and I'mExcited to welcome Michael Bank and Seth Fenster to the show Mike on Sethor co founders of Blip, and they're doing great work to empower positivefinancial health for people. Welcome to the show, gentlemen. You know this isgonna be fun. This is This is this is the first time that I've had two peopleon this show at once. And so I know you guys gonna add a lot to theconversation now that we're 55 episodes in. And when we look back and wereflect on this great century, that will call 2020. And we were lookingahead now to 2021. I just want to start the dialogue and the discussion around.What are you most energized about?...

Whether that be personally orprofessionally? Sure. Yeah, certainly start off on that question. And so noway, really, you know, from our perspective with our company blip wayreally believe that consumers can't effectively save, spend or investwithout first taking care of their bills, and so that that's kind of thosea lot towards the larger purpose, you know, on what we're focusing on. And sothe mission around blip is really to empower positive financial health, asyou alluded to in your introduction there. And so we really are doing whatwe dio because we want Thio to really address the lack of help and the lackof education around financial management that has has really affectedus. And so that's what we're excited about the future and so literally helpslook at finances and more of, ah, forward or or an upcoming way ratherthan looking at historical trends. And so that's really you know, where wethink there's gonna be additional value. Thio help people with their financial,health and financial wellness. I really like that perspective. Blip is futurefocus versus being routed. When we traditionally think about financialservices, it's historically focus or reviewing past transactions. And that'svery hard because it's it's a lot of like when I think About and coachfinancial brand leaders. You know, it's so easy to get stuck in the presentmoment making decisions that were informed by the past where if we lookin this post covert world, particularly from financial services, how quicklythings are changing and evolving, we look like even from a consumerstandpoint, financial stress. Those levels air out the roof right now, so Ilike getting ahead of the problem before the problem even exist. Is thata fair summary of the perspective of Blip? Yeah, absolutely. No, no. I wasjust gonna say for sure and I think...

...again like what excites me, and thishas been a tough year for everyone. I think it goes without saying. But atthe same time, we've seen so many changes happening so much quicker thanwe anticipated like that. The timelines of digital adoption really obviously infinancial services, but just across the board, in every industry, or justaccelerated by even decades. And so I'm personally really invigorated aboutthat because we're kind of emerging at this time where it's really everyone isjust like, How do we make this work now? Digitally, It's just like a completelydifferent world right now. And so again, like Mike was saying, it's really aboutbringing that digital point of view to the forward looking aspects offinancial management. And and James you alerted to it before everything hasreally been about historical spending and prompting your user with thenotification that they spent, you know, x amount of dollars on God knows whatin the in the last month or the last year, and that could be really helpful.But it really just seems more like budgeting and just time and time again,people have shown they don't really care about budgeting, but they do careabout the bills they have do the next month and the ones after that. And sothat's really where we're focusing. I love that perspective, Seth. You know,let's talk about that. But why is budgeting painful? Why is budgetinghard? I mean, you know, it's one of those things. I think back and and toyour point that the changes that we've seen in digital I've been in the spacealmost 20 years now. And I've never seen this type of acceleration, and itis, it's It's very exciting, but it can also be very scary for those as wellwho have made her career. But I want to talk specifically about budgeting andthe challenges of budgeting for people. Why is it painful? I just think peopledon't Maybe for one I think, is that maybe as a culture and the society, wetend to be very spending consumption based market in the U. S. And e think,if you really look at maybe what you should be spending versus what youshould be spending it on. Maybe I would say it's probably that people don'twant to know that they're doing something that maybe isn't in theirbest interests and that they kind of...

...don't they don't really care about whatthey spent on. They just kind of care about where they're going and theydon't wanna go through the whole process of saying I have this muchcoming in and I could spend it on this this and that And I think the otherlayer is like It's not It's not really easy to do that. And so maybe it'smaybe a non ideal situation. Ah, budget is great, but I think by calling it abudget, you think about sitting down and like in the old, older way ofbalancing a checkbook and running through your all your statements. Andno one wants to do that. And I think if you kind of said to them, You know,this is automated system that really budgets for you because, in essence,your budget is your bills. They would say, This is great, like you just kindof can't call it budgeting. You have to kind of call it managing your finances.But it's it's kind of one of the same. Yeah, I would agree with that pointjust to echo it. I think that this is again what James Robert was bringing uppreviously, but ah, lot of it around the historical trends. You know, if ifI'm budgeting off of what I've already done, it's just not as helpful to me,you know, on a go forward basis. And so when we're taking a forward look atusers upcoming bills, that's really where we're able to provide, You know,more proactive financial advice around making positive changes rather thanretroactively saying, Oh, I messed that up or I should have done this insteadof that. It's kind of catching it proactively and being able to helppeople make smarter decisions before that actually made those decisions. Youknow, the way that I hear you guys distilling this, I think a lot abouthealth care and this, like the trip to the doctor. No one wants to go to thedoctor because it's painful and, you know it takes time. Even even there wasa report by Viacom that specific and talking about financial services. Thiswas a couple of years ago that said people would rather go to the dentistthan to go visit their financial...

...institution and that's that's a prettypainful statement right there. But I think to healthcare is starting totransform the way that their position themselves, because they're talkingabout preventative medicine, getting ahead of the problems before theproblems even exists. And so when we look at this from the lens of financialservices, that's why I appreciate the work that you're doing and, you know,budgets. They're hard, they're scary. They're painful. Let's talk abouttransforming that perspective through the work that you're doing at Blip.Yeah, I mean way. Think a lot about this topic because we're really adigital organization from the ground up. But we're working a lot with companiesthat do digital, and I think that that's an important you know. We thinkthat's important distinction. And so it's really about leading theorganization to the problem. And I think that the healthcare analogy is agood analogy and, you know, way have seen a lot of changes around digital,especially in the banking space, like you said in a post covert world. Butit's really taken a catalyst, like like a co vid for for a lot of theseinstitutions, Thio to take more of like an introspective look at theirtechnology. But I think that they really are actively thinking about waystoe improve their experiences for customers just in the same way that,like you said in the health care side, they're you know, they're activelytrying to do that as well. Well, let's talk about that. Experiences.Experiences are particularly when we look at digital experiences. Digitalexperiences are nothing more than well defined systems and processes that havebeen defined, applied and optimized over a period of time, resulting in oneof two things. A positive emotion or a negative emotion. And when we look atthe systems and processes traditionally...

...of bill pay that incumbent financialbrand bank credit near might bring to market, what are some of the challengesthat those traditional systems might present either internally for thefinancial brand but also externally for the end user or the consumer? Yeah, Iwould say first and foremost, I mean, these legacy bill pay systems werereally expensive, and they primarily run on a CH transfers and writingchecks on the customer's behalf, and so that's an expensive way to pay a billfor the actual financial brand itself. But it's also doesn't it doesn't reallygel with the more digitally native consumer who's expecting, you know,like instant notification that their payment was made or that they want aflexible option to use a card. You know, cards, debit and credit are verypopular. And so right now that whole system of how you really go on pay abill, even in this situation where you can kind of see it digitally, you stillhave to go and manually submit the payment either through your bank's billpay, which we know isn't really getting a ton of use. Or, you know, justmanaging that. I think it's on average of seven bills a month per per person.So you gotta, you know, go to seven different websites and seven differenttimes during your busy life and each month and make those payments like it'sa lot of things fall through the cracks, which, by the way, those websites arenot always mobile. Optimized that I'm calling out my city municipality withtheir water bill. So now that's definitely that's definitely true. Butif you think about it like Seth just mentioned, you know, the average numberof bills is seven per month. And what's interesting is that about 75% of thosebills are actually paid on on biller websites. And, like you just said, mostof these builder websites are really not optimized to be user friendly. Ittakes me like, 10 minutes just to pay my utility bill. And this is, you know,in its current form, what people are...

...considering the better approach thanusing the traditional bank will pay model. So that's where you know, youknow, of the 15 billion bills that are being made, you know, annually thatthis is the best approach people are taking, and it's still subpar at best.And so that's where again, if we can figure out a way, which is what we'retrying to accomplish, obviously with Flip to really improve that experiencefrom the ground up, it's really gonna gonna take everything to the next level,and it's really going toe. Enable the financial institutions toe bringcustomers back to the organization because they're predominantly notpaying bills through the banks and credit unions currently, And if we getpeople to come back and to pay through the bank to pay through their creditunion that reinforces once again that positive relationship because you'resimplifying the complexities of my life. You're helping me to stop losing thisvaluable time and to have this annoying frustration because as a consumer, myexpectation is being set and really met by gaffe a Google Amazon, Facebook,apple and even on the payments front. You know, I think about Zell has done,like, you know, or even Venmo. It's that simplicity of being able t to movemoney from a to B peer to peer person to person, even for me with with Withfour kids. You know, it's a requirement that my baby sitters have either a Zellor Venmo account so that I don't have to come home at midnight and have tostop by some shady A T M and pull out some cash. I'd rather just pay them onthe way home and life is good and we go on. So no, I really get where you'recoming from. Yeah, E O. And the really the It's All About Opportunity and MikeMike mentioned. There's 15.4 billion bills paid every year, and that's about488 a second and that each one of those is a unique opportunity for a financialbrand to make an impact with their customer. Because we talk a lotinternally about ah, world where you...

...know, your bank says to you like we seethat you have this credit card bill and it happens to be at a differentfinancial institution. And you know, your interest rates really high on thatand you've been carrying a balance. And why don't you think about doing abalance transfer and bringing that into our you know, our institution and it'llsave you over time and just showing, you know, in a simple mobile act likehow much in the dollar amount of savings would be and just that is sopowerful and like that's a scenario where one the customer is benefitingfrom saving money for sure. But it's also a touch point with the institutionwho they have some relationship with, but not the main one at this time. Andthat institution is demonstrating to that customer that they have their back,even though they're not currently their customer for this product. But they'restill looking out for them, And so, yeah, it's maybe a little bit of across sale, but it's really more of a like I'm advocating for you and that'smissing. Yes, and I would actually push back on the idea that that's acrosscell. That's actually a methodology that I teach called helping First. It'sbeen even methodologies demontre help First cell Second because what you'redoing is you're identifying where people are losing money and people aremore likely to take action to avoid a loss and change their behavior tomodify their behavior. Then they are to achieve again. So if you can, Iposition that say, Hey, we've identified how you can stop losing youknow, $1000 in this high interest credit card. You know, click here. Andso it really is that that mantra of help. First cell second being appliedthrough the context of digital. And I would assume that this would work aswell not only just for credit card but any other opportunities. Whether thatbe auto Morgan, whatever those those kind of reoccurring payments are. Isthat Is that correct? Yes, that's it. I mean, it could it could even it couldeven be expanded beyond just the hanging products as well. You know, ifif you're fed up with your cable provider as an example, there is noreason again because of the data we...

...have on Billy information that again wecouldn't help customers, you know, proactively Look at what? What otheroffers air available to them to be able to get to your point, Save that money.If, if I could see, I could see just the amazing amount of opportunity toprovide that financial education, let's say, even if it comes back to the wholepurpose of what you guys were talking, it's empowerment because I'm empoweringyou to make even better decisions, decisions that you might not even knoware available or you might not even be aware. So you're providing clarity intothe unknown opportunities for the consumer I want. I wanna see dig intoanother common pain point, cause I'm just getting excited, as you know,speaking from my lens of of being a consumer, let's talk about thoseannoying re occurring transactions, you know, maybe 10, 12 bucks a month. Welive in a subscription economy, you know, I've got my YouTube subscription,my Spotify subscription, my Netflix subscription, which by the way wecanceled that a couple of months ago because we were I was, like, just done.We're done with Netflix. And it was for me personally. It was a fact of way toomuch content, way too many options, way too much choice to where I found thatif we sat down to watch something, it was the paradox of choice applied. Ireally My wife and I were like, What are we gonna watch? I don't know. Whatdo you wanna watch? And it was like, this whole. I was like, You know what?We're not getting any figure out what to watch. Terrible mention. They'vesuddenly continue toe up that subscription for you. Yeah, I'm reallyglad you brought up because another amazingly exciting opportunity with allof this is that when Netflix decides to raise the rates when your cable companyraises your rates, you're out of luck. There's nothing. There's nothing youcould do. You could go cancel, but it means nothing to them. But if everyoneis able to collectively say we don't want this and we're not just gonnacomplain on Twitter, we're all going to cancel at once. 100,000 cancelationscoming from one platform. It's...

...aggregating these bills might get adiscount collectively. And so there's some layers of not just financialadvice, but also mawr empowerment beyond just the advice of individualbut kind of toe act as a collective. And I think that's extremely exciting.Yeah, and and so you're providing that once again that knowledge, that clarity,that awareness and they are the annoying pain points that we might not.It might be more painful. Just stop that behavior to like, you know, And Icould think of some subscriptions that I've had over the years where it's like,Oh, here's that bill again. It Z only like 12 bucks a month. I'm just gonnalet it ride and I'll come back next month. There it is again, and becauseit's more work for me to go out and cancel that subscription, then a tleast in my mind thio more work to where If you're bringing that awarenessto the fold, it's Wow, This is really it's really transformative because that12 bucks, I mean, that's 100 and $44 of the course of year, you know, that'sand then they add up. They start to multiply, and you probably don't noticeyou have that subscription until they've charged your card for thatmonth and good luck trying to get them to give you that money back. Sure, youcan cancel for the next month, but they're not gonna know before thecharge went through. They're not going to give it back exactly. So we'vealready identified two major opportunities from the consumerstandpoint, an opportunity from the financial brand toe. Just keep peoplecoming back. And then, and and really, a second opportunity as well, is to getthat that help for cell secret providing. Hey, here's a recommendationthat could help you stop losing money. Just something to think about something.Consider what other opportunities are available for either the financialbrands or the consumer for financial brands to bring to consumers. With this,it really comes down to kind of is all really related to the to the two majorones because those are really the overarching themes of like, how do wekind of inject proactive elements into your financial life? I would say it Zreally just more broadly like what?...

What can we do when you're not reallysure how to do it yourself, and how do we facilitate You're doing it so thatdoesn't really feel like you're doing anything to make your life better. It'slike, How do we let you manage your finances in a way that's like acontrolled autopilot? Oh, I think I think all of the best productsplatforms APS that we use feel like second nature. They don't feel like anymore work. I love the analogy of just autopilot, you know, because it doesmake life more simple. It does make life feel even better. So let's sayLet's play Let's role play with for a second. I'm a financial brand leader.I'm a CEO. I'm a CEO. I'm a chief digital officer. What are some of theroadblocks that you might be bumping up against right now? And how are youhelping to educate and empower those leaders to overcome some what I wouldjust call limiting beliefs? Or there's they're stuck either in the circle ofchaos that I write about in my book or what I'm really starting to. And thisis for my next book, banking on change but stuck in what I call the Cave ofcomplacency. What are ways that you can educate and empower financial brandleaders that, hey, there's an even better way to empower and educate youraccount holders by just this Looking at this one simple behavior modificationwith Bill pay. Yeah, it's a great question, and it really comes down toeducating these financial brand leaders on how they can go and do this. Andwhen you start talking to them about the use cases and the potential of thegetting access to this type of data and these customer experiences like theylove it like there's no reason not to love it. But it's a challenge, becauseby design, a lot of these institutions are slow moving, and a lot of them aredealing with technology vendors that, you know they don't have a lot ofleverage over. And so what we've really...

...done internally is try and build asystem that, like an infrastructure layer but also in a kind of like out ofthe box customer experience ready software that they can use to reallymake. It is easy as possible to offer this either, you know, if they want tospin up a kind of like a bill pay AP separately from their core, you know,digital banking stack or if they wanted more deeply integrated. So it's reallyour job is toe, not just tell them, but show them that they actually can do it.And I think it kind of goes back to our point about where the digital adoptionis accelerated. Thes air conversations that would probably have gone a lotdifferently even a year ago. And so it's really kind of Maura about, like,How do we take this and get it toe work now and and how fast and what'sinvolved in doing it. And so really, it comes down to not just educating themon the opportunity, but really demonstrating how easy it can be toe tomake it work and make it happen. That's a great point. So let's talk aboutvalue creation. You know, you've you've been in the market. You've got somevalidation. What has been some of the feedback or the value that you'vecreated for the end user for the consumer? Yeah, it's a it's a goodquestion. So we're currently the process of doing a beta rollout, and sowe've been able to collect a lot of valuable feedback from the users thatare actually testing out product and a lot of the feedback that we're getting,you know, things that we obviously thought that we would get. Butobviously, then we're getting valuable feedback that was thought about in waysto use the product will consume the product that not necessarily even theway that we initially intended it. And so a lot of the positive feedback we'regetting is around the aggregated nature of the product being able to pull allyour billers in tow. One convenient location has been really important toeto our end users because, like we were talking about before, they're typicallygoing out to each of the biller websites individually. So that's beenreally, really invaluable feedback to...

...us on then. Another component of thefeedback that we have been receiving from from the beta test beyond just theuser experience of aggregation, is largely around the on boarding flowbecause that's really important as well. Typically the banks and credit unions.If they're using ah bill pay provider, the user needs thio, add their cardnumber, their pay address information and and even finding like what is myaccount number like is even a difficult task. And so you just give up on it.And so were quickly and easily able to get people set up with all the billerswere able. Thio, look at your transaction history to recommendbillers that should be added. And so again, it's kind of this proactivenature that people are really, you know, really enjoying and getting us greatfeedback about from what we have so far. Having done at this point well over1000 different digital secret shopping studies for financial brands, I gottatell you that pain point of on boarding of having to go and find thoseparticularly like if if if you have a new account holder and I'm talking likeon boarding to to a financial brand. So a bank or credit acquires a new depositaccount holder and they're wanting to, you know, help bring all of theaccounts over to new F I. Well, there's a lot of friction tied to thatexperience even now, because I have to go and find all of those statements.And so one of the things recommendations that I made over theyears for for those in our program is like, Let's just put together some typeof a concierge service to where I show up and I dump you know, my 10 12different statements that I get and then you can put all that do all thatwork for me because it's it's work. And I love how you're addressing that teamonce again removes the friction to the very common pain points in people'slives. What we also one of the other...

...really more powerful thing aspects ofthe feedback we've gotten was around the idea that some some of the betatesters weren't entirely sure why they were seeing a bunch of differentbalances for their, like their credit card bill, that they lengthen the appand and one in particular reached out toe May. And you know, they asked why,why am I like? I think this might be wrong doesn't line up with what I'mseeing in like the bank's app, and we explain like we're actually showing youthe current balance, the minimum balance and statement balance. And thatwas something that this particular Beta tester hadn't really encountered beforeand said even texted me. It was like I just I just didn't realize that itworked like that. And so they were just paying their like, their currentbalance every month, which was, you know, not bad behavior with a creditcard. But, you know, that's extra that they could have, you know, saved it forsomething else for the same month. And so it was like that that educationalaspect of kind of seeing the bills like this is actually really helpful andreally powerful. And so that's been a really promising feedback as well. Yeah,but one thing I would just add on to that point again around providing dataand kind of just a clean and simple consumable format that gives people theinformation that they really need is we've seen a lot of people will just gointo, you know, not to name any specific bank, but they'll go into abank, app or website and look at what their current checking account balancesand think that that's kind of like they're safe to spend them out. This isthe money that I've got in my account. So I'm good to go and, you know, justas like an example, if somebody has $400 in the checking account. When theygo out and buy a TV for for $300 they think, Great. I've got $100 left overwhere they're not actually thinking about again. That proactive, upcomingnature of bills they have throughout the rest of the month and very quickly.Then by the end of the month they're actually in the red. And so we, youknow, visually show what your current balances but then show what thoseupcoming bills are dio and then we'll basically minus those two numbers togive you almost a leftover safe to...

...spend amount. And so we've got a lot ofgood feedback on people actually looking at that number, as opposed tothe current balance number, in gaining a better understanding of theirfinances. So you know the way that you're describing that I almost seeBlip is being the financial crystal ball to foresee the future once again.Now we've come full circle with this conversation. What a great one. It hasbeen Thio help! People are to help prevent people from getting intotrouble before that trouble presents itself. As as we look ahead, Thio Ah,whole new year full of opportunity in 2021. What is one piece of advice, orwhat does one recommendation that you might have for financial brand leadersin the banking space or in the credit in space, does that feel free?Obviously, jump in here. But you know, I would say, really embrace the change.And I think that again covert is obviously pandemic and has been theterrible for many people. But I think that it is has again, like we talkedabout the very beginning of this conversation kind of opened the eyes ofpeople and institutions to say, Well, if people are gonna be coming into ourbranch like, what are we actually do? And so it's kind of taking thatintrospective look, which I think you know. So it's the second half, or eveneven the first half of 2020 people have started doing but roll with the punchesof changes that are coming. And don't be afraid Thio to make these changesbecause consumers are experiencing a lot of change with other aspects oftheir lives. Being ableto quickly by something on the Internet and itarrived several hours later is kind of the experience that people have come toexpect from other aspects of their lives or even talking about like theNetflix is where the content is just right there. And so people have come toexpect the same from the banking experience, and it's just not reallythere yet. So I would say Don't be afraid to make these changes. Theymight seem kind of scary, but it's...

...something that is moving the ballforward from from the digital perspective and something that peoplereally want and need. Yeah, take. You must be greater than high I Q. Like aperson's adaptability quotient must be greater than a person's intelligence inthis world. Because to that point, what you guys are providing an individualhuman being would never be able to do to crunch all of this data and then toprovide recommendations. But you're empowering the financial brand tofurther empower people. Final thoughts from you, Seth. Yeah, I would just addI echo everything like said, but I would just add that it would be veryhelpful, Thio not stop thinking that you can't do something just becausehistorically it was challenging or difficult, and that might be you know,it's it's hard to to do financial services digitally, and maybe there aresome aspects that that's true. But for the most part we can make it happen.And we'll work with any financial brand that you know wants to do this. And youknow, every every institution is unique. Every situation is unique, but we'reworking on a platform, really that could be used by by any institution,any financial brand, because we know the power of what this unlocks andultimately at the end of the day, like it's about making it happen andactually executing it so that all of those bills are actually turned intothe opportunities that we know they are. And it really just kind of starts withthe mind set of like we could do this at our institution, can change itshould change, and we're going to make it happen. And as long as you have thatmindset, companies like Blip, we're gonna work with you and we're gonnamake it happen. Yes, when you put the transformation of people of accountholders over the commoditized transaction of dollars and cents,that's when real transformation happens and and what better time than now toreally make that commitment because money is stressful. That stress istaking a toll on people's health, their relationships, their overall sense ofwell being. And the opportunity that I see in this post covered world is forfinancial brands to commit to guide people beyond that financial stresstowards a bigger, better and brighter...

...future. And I appreciate the theimportant and meaningful work that you guys that you to Michael and Seth aredoing at Blip. It's been such a great conversation. If anyone's listening andthey have follow up questions, they want to connect, they want to continuethe conversation with you. What's the best way for them to reach out and sayhello? Twitter is great. Either add Blip labs on Twitter or set T J f forMay weaken. Set up an email from there any you know, phone call. Anything,always happy to chat were across all the social platforms and our ourwebsite. Try blip dot com is welcome. You could drop a note in there. We'llfind you Excellent, Michael said. Thanks for joining me on anotherepisode of banking on digital growth, as always, in until next time be well,do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley. Like what youhear. Tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on Apple podcasts,Google Podcast or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even. MawrPractical and proven Insights, visit www dot digital growth dot com to graba preview of James Roberts bestselling book Banking on Digital Growth or ordera copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside, you'll find astrategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focusthat empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans anddeposits until next time, be well and do good.

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