Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

29) #ExponentialInsights: Using Your Brain to Cope With Change w/ Melina Palmer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This is your brain on change.

And it's not pretty. Our brains love the status quo.

During COVID, however, there's no more status quo. Banks and credit unions are forced to shift into digital offerings and electronic notaries. Staff members are working from home.

Our brain circuits are overloaded.

On this episode of the Banking on Digital podcast, Melina Palmer, founder and CEO of The Brainy Business and host of the Brainy Business podcast, talked about how to use your brain to cope with change.

We discussed:

-How financial brand marketing teams can tell a story of hope

-Ways financial brands can escape from fear-based thinking in a crisis

-Why behavioral economics increases savings

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Fear really propels our subconscious to go into overdrive. You are listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Laigh and welcome to another episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Molina Palmer to the show. Willina is the founder and CEO of the brainy business and also the host of the brainy business podcast, and I believe her work and the insights that she shares as a behavioral economist are now more important than ever before in a post covid nineteen world for financial brands. Hello, Molina, hi, thanks for having me to begin. Thanks for being here to begin in the midst of all of this confusion and chaos caused by this covid nineteen crisis, start with the good. What is one thing that you're excited about or maybe see some opportunities for even a amainst all this chaos and crisis? You know, I think it's a really good opportunity for all businesses, not just financial institutions, to look at shaking things up. Our brains really love the status quo and I just did an episode on normalcy bias, which is this tendency to think that things will always stay the same and then one's change is upon us. We don't think that the new world will ever you know, we're waiting for things to go back to wait they were, and in this case where banks and credit unions are being forced to shift into this digital offerings and electronic notaries and not having wet signatures, and what does that mean? And if our staff is working remotely from home, where it really pushed things forward to see what matters and what doesn't and how you can provide better service when you're sort of for it's forced upon you, instead of letting us sort of drag our feet over a long period of time. So you can see what's going to be beneficial for people in the new normal, and then you can adopt and keep some things and let some things revert back to where you were before, what was working better. I'm with you. We will never go back to what the world wants was. I'm seeing this in all facets, education, healthcare, even definitely a lot of changes, in transformations happening their work bank king, so I mean entertainment, all everything is really getting turned upside down. But there...

...are the opportunities there to transform ourselves. You did a an episode recently about how the human brain responds to crisis, these and pandemics, and I recommend anyone listening to that to this podcast, go hop over and listen to that one, because I took away so much from that. You talked about to key points. Number one, there's a framing issue at hand in this crisis, in this pandemic, and number two, there's something that you noted as a framing allusion. What are these and why is it important to note these points? Yeah, so the thing about a pandemic like coronavirus, and I talked about that in episode ninety. One of the brainy business is that our brains when we don't have control, you start to freak out a little bit, and this is where people go out and buy exorbitant amounts of toilet paper and hand sanitizer and make risky decisions and do strange things, even where you know it's irrational, but you just can't stop yourself because you're in this place of uncertainty and the only way you feel like you're protecting your family or doing something is to stock up on canned goods or bottled water or whatever that happens to be. And our brains get overwhelmed incredibly easily and quickly, and so when someone has their conscious brain full of what's going to happen? What's happening with my job? What about my kids? Or schools going to close, all these different pieces, then you start to have your subconscious take over and it makes these sort of silly, irrational choices that help it to come and feel good. So the framing piece is that we're talking about. I believe what you're referencing in this case is having to do with talking about the hand washing versus the masks and and whatnot. Yeah, and so what feels like the easy thing to do would be to do hand sanitizer or get a mask. And then actually, now, since that was recorded, CDC is saying we should be wearing masks and whatnot, but you think about so handmade masks that someone would make it at home. Is What we're saying you should be buying now, and those are actually, as far as what research is showing, not really actually effective against viruses, and so you ask like, why would the CDC recommending people wear those? And then it's this thing about priming the brain and thinking things are more serious than they are, adding a little bit of a scare tactic to keep people home and make social or physical distancing more impactful, because you look outside and don't want to be walking around with lots of people wearing masks on their faces because it just feels worse. So again, then this this difference with the flu and that people didn't feel the need to wash their hands in the same way, even though you know it's...

...potentially more contagious and it's the same stuff that you're supposed to be doing, but it feels so different because it's new and we don't know what could happen and where you think you'd probably be okay if you got it you just don't don't know. There's there's no way to know. So that fear really propels our subconscious to go into overdrive. You speak about the media and one of the things that you noted in this particular episode, Ninety One, was that we have the availability for bias when our brains believe what we hear most to be true. Right and right now, there is, to the point that you just made, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of negativity. Is there a way for a financial brand marketing team, as cells team, to possibly paint a different picture, to tell a different story, maybe a story of help, a story of hope? What could you recommend for a financial brand marketing cells team to optimize communication strategies, messaging strategies over the next twelve to eighteen months, because I don't really see this going away anytime soon. Agreed, unfortunately, I think we're here for a while. But, like you said, it is a really good opportunity to find those stories of hope and support that you are giving to people in your community that are able to, you know, maintain their income or have loan products of ailable that are bridging the gap or other support that you're creating. I know that some financial institutions right now with the loans that as of recording. We don't exactly how that's going to work, but a lot of big financial institutions are saying it's only our only people that are existing businesses with us are eligible to then get a loan from us, because we don't even want to deal with that headache. And I know that there are some that are talking about being ones that are offering it to people that weren't already having business accounts with them. So if you're one of those spreading that word to say hey, we're here for everybody, not just for people who were with us on the Front End, can definitely make a difference. And if you look at the types of things that have been trending and been shared, actually some of the fake news that was positive in its vibe was this. You know, dolphins have returned to the canals and Venice and you know the world is rising up now that humans aren't everywhere, which has been proven to be false. Right, that's not actually what's going on, but people wanted to share that. You wanted to put something nice out there, and all the you know, memes and humor. So if you are able to make something that is not making light of the situation, but it's positive and showing change and strategic forward thinking, think that can help some brands to stand out and gain loyalty that they'll be able to keep on the post side of this crisis. Yeah, because, I mean you study the brain. You said he how the maca Annex, and it goes so deep and it's like are we wired as human beings...

...to continuously get out of this mucky place and try to send something better? Is that what we all hope for? Yeah, yes, it's an interesting we do want to be on the other side, but that, you know, that normalcy bias again. Where you want? It's this remembering, like I'm just going to wait until things are normal again. Is that what our brain wants to be doing? And so it's almost this reminiscing problem that's getting you stuck to wear, because our brains love status quo. Everything that we do, everything ahead of us, is actually set up based on what has worked in the past. So your subconscious is not making decisions on the exact information that's ahead of you and what's going to be best in the future, but what has worked before and so knowing that this is unlike anything any of us have ever seen or been in before. If you stick with that and are letting your subconsccious run the show because you're cognitively bogged down with this fear and all of these other things, versus sitting down and questioning yourself, having bigger conversations about what's next, what it could look like, how this might be, you're gonna get stuck in that trap of not being able to get out of what was into what could be and seeing it as an opportunity. Because not every business, and again, obviously with the caveat of this is a terrible thing and we all wish it hadn't happen, and but they're not. Every business is struggling right now. If we look at Zoom, which was business that they actually signed up more new active users to zoom by the end of February of two thousand and twenty. Then they signed up in all of two thousand and nineteen. Wow, it's a lot of people on zoom for the first time ever and figuring that out. And you they're just huge amounts of business. They're having to figure out an instant cart and other things with Amazon people that weren't using streaming television services or maybe using that now, and so it doesn't there are things that we can all be offering to be of service and of benefit if we are able to take that step back and really purvey the entire surroundings versus what we've been used to. I want to talk about that, taking that step back, because what you said, I think, is key. Our brain is designed to protect us and we're making decisions upon past experiences. What worked, what didn't work. Fear, that human emotion. It does protect us, but to the point it can also hold us back. In the PODCAST, you noted that that a lack of control that we're all kind of feeling right now, whether it is in business, whether it's on the home front, whether it's home schooling for kids like my wife is right now. That lack of control is a breeding ground for not necessarily making the best decisions, taking time to stop, pause, think, review reflect. How can a financial brand have the awareness that, yeah,...

...we're these are these are scary times for ourselves internally, but they're also scary times for those in the communities that we serve. So that we don't get stuck internally, because now we can help other people escape those fears. What do you recommend to have that conversation? One of the things I've been recommending to my financial institution clients is to look at the staff that you have, because, whether it's because you have a lack of laptops that can be running vpn or you have any lack of staff, that they're not able to be functioning in a branch in the way that they had and that you're probably still paying them the salary versus laying them off. I know there are a lot of financial institutions in that space right now. So you're putting money toward people that don't feel like they can do anything, but they might want a higher level project, something to take their mind off of what's going on. So those people are really primed with their completely out of their element. They're looking at something different. What are the pieces that you have of policies and procedures that are outstanding that need to be updated, that they can be doing without access to a core system and be upleveling the business? And this sort of a down time, if you have people that could be writing blog posts or researching what other institutions are doing or what the needs are and finding, if you were going to apply for grants or if your customers are going to be applying for grants and loans, how you can be supportive, what people are looking for, the words they're using, giving them research tasks to where they feel like they're doing something, and then you can help that resonate back with you. Are doing this thing to help us help our communities moving forward, and it's this bigger picture of something that we're going to be doing where, a team, we're working together. You're getting that message of unity forward and helping them to feel like they're of use at this time instead of just sitting idle. Yeah, you know that idea of keeping you keeping people busy with giving them a sense of purpose, tying that back to the organizational purpose. I think a really interesting example of this is what I've seen with Zappos and how Zappos is literally like guys, pick up the phone, give us a call if you just need to talk. Yeah, we're here to listen. It's not about selling shoes anymore. It's about connecting with another human being. If you need us to order groceries for you, we will do that and it's taking out the old playbook that that was pre covid nineteen, developing a new one for this new reality. But but what I see fromtimes, maybe you do as well, as the fear of change. So there's the fear of the unknown as one part of this, but then there's the fear of change and how that can hold us back. Why is change so hard and what habits can we established to make change easier, both for ourselves, for our teams and for the people in the communities that a financial brand might serve? Yeah, so change is believed to be hard traditionally and if we...

...look at, if you the way that we approached what we how we think we should be best at changing, because we do it wrong. It's very difficult to do there are some really great books on habits from James Clear and Charles Doohig that get into some of this and I have some episodes on habits that gets into that as well. But understanding the que that gets you to the next step of the reward that your brain is trying to get. Understanding how habits actually work in the brain is important to be able to change them more appropriately. I do a lot of work with mindset as well and knowing that we just you can't have as many goals. We all think that we've got eight thousand projects and we're multitasking and doing all of these things, and that's just a recipe for your brain to keep you stuck and constantly productively procrastinating, I like to call it, on busy work that's not actually doing much of anything. So if you just have one to know more than three goals of things that you're working on in your life and business that you're able to really be focusing on and working toward, and that keeps the message clear, it keeps you moving forward. The example that I want to share about change and how it can be easy when you work with the brain is a business that's called the litery, and I interviewed them on the podcast as well. They are in Europe and they are trying to tackle this product, this problem of people that litter, which is everywhere and it's a huge problem for communities and cities and everything. And if you were to say getting people to recycle properly and throw things away, it's a change that's difficult and possibly impossible to do and tackle. But what they have done is understanding the way that the brain actually works. Created a process of turning litter into lottery tickets and then if you pick up garbage and properly sorted into these smart garbage cans, you get a lottery ticket and that's created with the city each where you could win, you know, a million euros from this piece of litter that you properly threw away. And they tested that in movie theaters, which are traditionally the grossest places of all time and that no one ever picks up their garbage, and they had a hundred percent compliance over an entire month across four different movie theaters, of people throwing everything away and searching through their bags and running through the aisles to try and find as much garbage as possible to throw away. So when you work with the brain, change doesn't have to be difficult. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumer shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial rand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader.

But it doesn't have to, because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growthcom to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. You speak to mind set, you know, and I've read the work of Carol de Wick. I mean it's fascinating. I can remember my fourth grader starting school this year and they spent the whole first month of school not learning any new subjects. They spin it on mindset. They spent it on goal setting, the big three for the day. I'm going to get these three things accomplished. If I get those three checked off, boom, boom, boom. Now this litany of list that's like overwhelming and you in the day you feel defeated. There was a study. That's why I want to talk a little bit about mindset here. There was a study that was done by Td Bank, and I love it when financial brands are starting to do these anthropological studies, these psychology studies around people and their relationships with money. What Td Bank found is that people who visualize their goals are less anxious about budgeting and those that don't, and they feel more accomplished and they feel happier. So talk to me a little bit more about this idea of mindset and goal setting, because I think that is a key opportunity that financial brand. We transcend the conversation beyond the traditional promotion of dollars and sins, but we're moving into a new age of coaching, empowerment and that even financial well being. That coaching right. The thing about I love that that was what your fourth grader went through, by the way. That is awesome and something that will be definitely serving all those kids while in the new normal that we have here, but by narrowing goals. So just think about when you set your to do list in a traditional method of which we all suffer from optimism bias. So you think that even though I only accomplished one thing today, tomorrow I'm going to get all these twenty things done that are on my list, which never happens. And so you keep moving. You have the long to do list and then you go and you get three things done and you feel like a big giant failure because you only got three things done, whereas if you start the day and say I have to do there's one thing or, you know, up to three. I prefer the sort of one thing method. But if you have your big goal, this is the most important thing that I'm trying to accomplish over the next ninety days. So what are we doing for, you know, Teles services or updating our branding or getting new content that's out there? You have this big goal and you have one thing a day that you're going to be doing and once you get that done,...

...then you get to tackle everything else that's on your list. When you've framed it with this anchor of one item you're going to do and you get three done, you feel amazing like, oh my Gosh, look at all this stuff we got done and I'm going to do now. I'm already three D's ahead, days ahead, and I can do this next thing and that you're just going to snowball on that momentum yes, versus feeling like a big flop because you had even just five things on your list and only got three. It feels completely different, even though you accomplish the same amount of things, but it's the way that you approached that day that can totally impact whether you're in a vicious or a virtuous cycle. What you just said momentum, I think one of the my favorite exercise and and that framing of ninety days as different, because normally in financial services we've looked at three to five your strategic plans and that's all. And now, in this dynamic of Covid postcovid world, ninety days is a lot more realistic. But it's every ninety days, simple exercise. What worked well? What are you working on right now that you're excited about, and what are you excited about in the future, and using those moments in time to build momentum going forward, and I love that that snowball effect. You talked about the bias of optimism. There was another research study that was conducted by Frost Bank out of Texas and I thought this was very interesting and be beginning at your perspective on this, to where they worked with a couple of behavioral psychologists and behavioral economic economists to where they found that optimists are seven times more likely to experience financial well being. Optimist experience a hundred, forty five few days of financial stress per year than pessimists, and optimists have half the number of financial setbacks is pessimist. So there's that. There's the opportunity, once again of looking at a financial brand, becoming more of that coach, providing someone with accountability. What are your thoughts on that, of helping someone move from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset and in the financial brain is facilitating that type of transformation? Yeah, I'll need to check out that study because I'm not familiar with it, but I did do an episode at the end of last year about the benefits of gratitude and having this positive mindset, and there are so many studies that look at you know, when you behave in this gracious, gratitude driven space, you become happy. You're happier. So there's this and then people that aren't practicing regular gratitude will say, well, you know, okay, Oprah, because she's a big proponent of this, and so, as Tony Robbins and Ariana Huffington. It's like it's easy for you to say that because you have all of the success already, so you're definitely happy and grateful for it. But they all say, you know, you start gratitude first and move your way in. And if you have this optimism and you behave in this way, you expect the brain gets what it expects. And so to talk a little bit about how the brain is sorting information. Ninety nine percent of what's happening for our brains at any given time is subconscious processing and just a very small amount...

...is happening in the conscious. And so what has been found is your subconscious can process eleven million bits of information per second. Right your conscious can only do forty, just forty, which is very sad. And so if you think every bit of information your subconscious is looking at has confirmation bias. It's finding what's going to prove itself to be right because it likes this. So if you're looking for negatives, you will find them and you'll find the whoppers that are out there. If you're looking for positive reinforcement, you're going to find that too, because for every one thing that gets through to your conscious brain, two hundred and seventy five thousand other things didn't make it so if you're looking for the good that's out there and the things that can help you to succeed, and you know, in a meeting, I give this example of if you feel like your boss is out to get you back when we're in physical like meetings in the same room and then they look toward you while they're talking and you would say, O man, he's looking at me. He must think there's probably something on my shirt. I can't believe he noticed that. It's so bad and I'm just not going to speak up, whereas the person who has the positive might say, oh, he looked in my direction, he must want my input. I'm going to step up and say something now. The same action, when filtered through the different lenses of the person, can have a really big impact on those steps that you make. It's a matter of perspective, and perspective becomes one's reality. That's one of the reasons, like when we're talking about all of this fear and negativity, that we're just bombarded with all of this information, the bites and the bits and the subconscious. I've made recommendations for financial brands to do a seven day gratitude social challenge help get people out of the muck in elevate them to a new place that everyone's going to want to play or not. Everyone's going to want to participate, but for those that do, they will thank you for thinking more than just about what's in their wallet. They will thank you for thinking about my physical wellbeing, my mental wellbeing and then also my financial wellbeing, which is an area that I know that you've been working on with some recent research with Fullen, and that's where I want to transition the conversation. You've been looking at. How does Behavioral Economics Increase Savings? Does it increase savings? What are the opportunities here? Yeah, so it definitely can, and that research studiated with a small credit union. The white paper came out last year and we went over a six month period of time that we had three group. So in one was just control. We watched them right. The second group got a letter at the beginning saying hey, we're initiating this savings challenge based on research. If someone gives you a goal and you break that into sub goals, it can help you to save more. So it's twenty four weeks and a recommended amount and just try to save and pick your number and you do the same amount of free every week. And then the third group got basically the same letter with a slight tweet that they also got...

...this refrigerator magnet that went with it that helped them to track their savings along the way around the edge of the magnet were it was broken into wedges, and so you could actually scratch like lottery tickets if you saved, and then had little like awesome way to go. Yay for you if you saved throughout the process. And so the reason it was a magnet instead of an APP or something like that is because our brains are constantly scanning the environment around us and this is a physical reminder, a representation, of manifestation of this idea of saving, and so having the magnet on your fridge versus a card in your wallet or whatever it is. Every time you walk by are you see it, you think, Oh yeah, I'm committed to saving for, you know, Kids College or for that Emergency Fund or whatever it happens to be, and it's triggering, reminding you, even when you don't realize it. And the people in that group had higher and PS scores and they had a higher savings rate at the end of the six months. So it's a very interesting perspective that I agree strongly with because I've always advocated yes, we do all of our work in the digital world, but it's two sides of the equation. It's the DX or the digital experience, plus the Chex or the human experience. Both are required and really the human experience that's the physical world, and the opportunities come from looking to make the intangible of digital tangible. So something is simple and almost archaic as a refrigerator magnet created positive change for these people. Looking at the other opportunities, what do you see from your perspective or through the work that you're doing to help consumers transform behaviors, make positive changes, little bets, little winds every step of the way, and how can a financial brand facilitate that journey? Yeah, it's I'm definitely feeling all of our like same wavelength as we're talking or definitely jamming on the same concepts. I think I actually so. I did do an episode on how to make concepts tangible and one of the examples I gave in that episode that I always thought was one of the smartest things I had seen is when progressive did there. So the price gun is one piece, but also, if you notice, they have just stacks and stacks, like a big library or if you were in a bookstore, of the policies as boxes that you could go and grab off of a shelf, and so making this concept of where, Oh, that's a thing I could go grab and touch, which triggers loss of version and perceived ownership, and having you right realize what's there and the vastness of what they are and all the different types. It's making that into something that your brain can just instantly understand. What that there's more to it than just digital. They didn't have to actually create boxes, even though they turned it into a character and things like that. But whether you're turning...

...digital things into a an experience in a video that you can kind of understand, or if you're able to relate by story and helping people to activate their mirror neurons where they feel like they're part of what's going on, they're a bigger piece of something that you're putting together, or if it is physical things that you're sending to people that they can have to remember you by if you happen to have a whole like horde of hand sanitizer. I know back at my days at the Credit Union, you know, we had a bunch of individual hand sanitizers. It seems like it would be a good time to put those in the mail for people right now if you have them around. But yeah, yeah, I mean what you talk about, that idea of marrying and story and placing yourself into that story. I just had a conversation for the podcast recently with Andy Janning and some of the work that he's been doing where he's been doing deep research around photography and the images of people and the stories that financial brands are subconsciously communicating with stock photography and how that's causing more harm than good. Even the Harvard Business Review they say that phases of people who look like US release oxytocin and it's that fil good connection, that chemical that creates empathy, and empathy today in this digital world, this post covid nineteen digital world, with's call it for the time being, you mentioned video. I've been a big advocate and a proponent for video as a communication channel from a marketing standpoint, from a cell standpoint and in the future coaching standpoint. How can a financial brand capitalize on that video? Because what I'm seeing you facetoface right now. Not only are recording the audio, but we're recording the video. I had interview with Jim Russa while ago and we did the audience here like look, no, we got a re record this thing. We need the video. It's like let's do it, and that video it just added so much more right. Yeah, being able to see and relate to people and you get those triggers and pieces. Our brains are wired. So I think it's eighty percent of that sensory information that we're bringing in at any given moment is through our eyes sensing what's there, and so the visual queues, the things our brains are picking up on where a slight you can tell I'm starting to smile or if I kind of scratch my nose or whatever it is. It it changes everything and the way we perceive information, which is why people aren't switching to just being on phone calls right now. But we're looking for video options to be able to have conversations, you relate to the person. But this priming piece is also it's very important. It's very dangerous spot for a lot of brands to be and if they don't understand the way that the brain is interpreting that imagery. I was working with a client recently that the just doing. It's a financial investment firm and talking about rising up and elevating what you're working on, and so it was like a sunrise in the background, but the woman, it's her back. You can tell...

...she's sort of looking down and you can see that her arms are crossed and I said no, right, you, you can't do this. You need her to she needs to have her head and even though we can't see her face, you need her head to be angled up. You need to have her arms down at her side or something else, because it's triggering this very depressed feels more like a sunset than a sunrise. or She's not in a really good spot and those slight tweaks can have such a huge impact on the next steps. And you know, one of my favorite studies looks at there was a backpack in a room, in a briefcase in a room and they had people working on cooperative projects and those in the backpack room were much more collaborative than the briefcase room, even though everybody said they never saw it. You know, our brains are picking up on all these things all the time. Yeah, yeah, I mean hearing just the small little nuance is those things that we typically but overlook. I can tell you through all the digital secret shopping studies that we continuously do for financial brands, small changes have incremental results. I mean even like the the idea of cognitive load. Financial Services. Money is inherently a very complex subject, but we don't do it a purpose. We add additional elements of confusion and complexity, like more that we can simplify, and that's where I'm seeing video communication in this post covid nineteen world. This is going to last for twelve to eighteen months. It's going to change the way that people shop by not only financial service but everything. I still want to talk with someone, I still want to connect with someone on the other end. That's video communicate. I'm quite bank has already been doing a great job with this in their mobile APP. This has been such a wonderful conversation and appreciate you taking the time to have this discussion. One last recommendation. I'M A financial brand marketing team sells, team leader, leadership, team member. What's the one thing that I should really focus on and take action, if it's just that one thing, over the next, say, twelve months? I think for now the biggest thing to look at is framing and the context of trying to get into the mindset of the person on the other side, which we are all sort of in this right now, and so you're able to think about how you're able to relate to your potential customers, members, whatever it is, much more than ever before. And so if you think what are the things you're stressed about? What are your friends concerned about? What are they needing help with? What would be alleviating for them? What are they sharing on your social channels? What do you feel inclined to share and click on? How can you incorporate that into your product, services, offering, messaging, updating your website, whatever that is? And as you get all of that together, to know that just being thoughtful, that's I end every episode and all of my email signature is this message of be thoughtful. So put a little bit more thought in, because those small changes do make a very big difference. Thank you very much. Leaning anyone listening. What's to connect with you once to continue the conversation with you. What is the best way for them to do that? So you...

...can find me on Linkedin, just as Molina Palmer, and find me in that way, and I'm on all the socials as the brainy Biz Biz and you can also get the podcast of the brainy business or the brainy businesscom. Oh Yeah, thank you again for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thanks so much. Until next time, be well, do good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast, Google podcasts or spotify and subscribe while you're there. To get even more practical, improven insights, visit www dot digital growthcom to grab a preview of James Roberts best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Until next time, be well and do good.

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