Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

29) #ExponentialInsights: Using Your Brain to Cope With Change w/ Melina Palmer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This is your brain on change.

And it's not pretty. Our brains love the status quo.

During COVID, however, there's no more status quo. Banks and credit unions are forced to shift into digital offerings and electronic notaries. Staff members are working from home.

Our brain circuits are overloaded.

On this episode of the Banking on Digital podcast, Melina Palmer, founder and CEO of The Brainy Business and host of the Brainy Business podcast, talked about how to use your brain to cope with change.

We discussed:

-How financial brand marketing teams can tell a story of hope

-Ways financial brands can escape from fear-based thinking in a crisis

-Why behavioral economics increases savings

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Fear really propels our subconscious to gointo overdrive. You are listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Laya podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize theirdigital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode ispart of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and yourteam. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am JamesRobert Laigh and welcome to another episode of the banking on digital growth podcast.Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome MolinaPalmer to the show. Willina is the founder and CEO of the brainy businessand also the host of the brainy business podcast, and I believe her workand the insights that she shares as a behavioral economist are now more important thanever before in a post covid nineteen world for financial brands. Hello, Molina, hi, thanks for having me to begin. Thanks for being here tobegin in the midst of all of this confusion and chaos caused by this covidnineteen crisis, start with the good. What is one thing that you're excitedabout or maybe see some opportunities for even a amainst all this chaos and crisis? You know, I think it's a really good opportunity for all businesses,not just financial institutions, to look at shaking things up. Our brains reallylove the status quo and I just did an episode on normalcy bias, whichis this tendency to think that things will always stay the same and then one'schange is upon us. We don't think that the new world will ever youknow, we're waiting for things to go back to wait they were, andin this case where banks and credit unions are being forced to shift into thisdigital offerings and electronic notaries and not having wet signatures, and what does thatmean? And if our staff is working remotely from home, where it reallypushed things forward to see what matters and what doesn't and how you can providebetter service when you're sort of for it's forced upon you, instead of lettingus sort of drag our feet over a long period of time. So youcan see what's going to be beneficial for people in the new normal, andthen you can adopt and keep some things and let some things revert back towhere you were before, what was working better. I'm with you. Wewill never go back to what the world wants was. I'm seeing this inall facets, education, healthcare, even definitely a lot of changes, intransformations happening their work bank king, so I mean entertainment, all everything isreally getting turned upside down. But there...

...are the opportunities there to transform ourselves. You did a an episode recently about how the human brain responds to crisis, these and pandemics, and I recommend anyone listening to that to this podcast, go hop over and listen to that one, because I took away somuch from that. You talked about to key points. Number one, there'sa framing issue at hand in this crisis, in this pandemic, and number two, there's something that you noted as a framing allusion. What are theseand why is it important to note these points? Yeah, so the thingabout a pandemic like coronavirus, and I talked about that in episode ninety.One of the brainy business is that our brains when we don't have control,you start to freak out a little bit, and this is where people go outand buy exorbitant amounts of toilet paper and hand sanitizer and make risky decisionsand do strange things, even where you know it's irrational, but you justcan't stop yourself because you're in this place of uncertainty and the only way youfeel like you're protecting your family or doing something is to stock up on cannedgoods or bottled water or whatever that happens to be. And our brains getoverwhelmed incredibly easily and quickly, and so when someone has their conscious brain fullof what's going to happen? What's happening with my job? What about mykids? Or schools going to close, all these different pieces, then youstart to have your subconscious take over and it makes these sort of silly,irrational choices that help it to come and feel good. So the framing pieceis that we're talking about. I believe what you're referencing in this case ishaving to do with talking about the hand washing versus the masks and and whatnot. Yeah, and so what feels like the easy thing to do would beto do hand sanitizer or get a mask. And then actually, now, sincethat was recorded, CDC is saying we should be wearing masks and whatnot, but you think about so handmade masks that someone would make it at home. Is What we're saying you should be buying now, and those are actually, as far as what research is showing, not really actually effective against viruses,and so you ask like, why would the CDC recommending people wear those? And then it's this thing about priming the brain and thinking things are moreserious than they are, adding a little bit of a scare tactic to keeppeople home and make social or physical distancing more impactful, because you look outsideand don't want to be walking around with lots of people wearing masks on theirfaces because it just feels worse. So again, then this this difference withthe flu and that people didn't feel the need to wash their hands in thesame way, even though you know it's...

...potentially more contagious and it's the samestuff that you're supposed to be doing, but it feels so different because it'snew and we don't know what could happen and where you think you'd probably beokay if you got it you just don't don't know. There's there's no wayto know. So that fear really propels our subconscious to go into overdrive.You speak about the media and one of the things that you noted in thisparticular episode, Ninety One, was that we have the availability for bias whenour brains believe what we hear most to be true. Right and right now, there is, to the point that you just made, there's a lotof fear, there's a lot of negativity. Is there a way for a financialbrand marketing team, as cells team, to possibly paint a different picture,to tell a different story, maybe a story of help, a storyof hope? What could you recommend for a financial brand marketing cells team tooptimize communication strategies, messaging strategies over the next twelve to eighteen months, becauseI don't really see this going away anytime soon. Agreed, unfortunately, Ithink we're here for a while. But, like you said, it is areally good opportunity to find those stories of hope and support that you aregiving to people in your community that are able to, you know, maintaintheir income or have loan products of ailable that are bridging the gap or othersupport that you're creating. I know that some financial institutions right now with theloans that as of recording. We don't exactly how that's going to work,but a lot of big financial institutions are saying it's only our only people thatare existing businesses with us are eligible to then get a loan from us,because we don't even want to deal with that headache. And I know thatthere are some that are talking about being ones that are offering it to peoplethat weren't already having business accounts with them. So if you're one of those spreadingthat word to say hey, we're here for everybody, not just forpeople who were with us on the Front End, can definitely make a difference. And if you look at the types of things that have been trending andbeen shared, actually some of the fake news that was positive in its vibewas this. You know, dolphins have returned to the canals and Venice andyou know the world is rising up now that humans aren't everywhere, which hasbeen proven to be false. Right, that's not actually what's going on,but people wanted to share that. You wanted to put something nice out there, and all the you know, memes and humor. So if you areable to make something that is not making light of the situation, but it'spositive and showing change and strategic forward thinking, think that can help some brands tostand out and gain loyalty that they'll be able to keep on the postside of this crisis. Yeah, because, I mean you study the brain.You said he how the maca Annex, and it goes so deep and it'slike are we wired as human beings...

...to continuously get out of this muckyplace and try to send something better? Is that what we all hope for? Yeah, yes, it's an interesting we do want to be on theother side, but that, you know, that normalcy bias again. Where youwant? It's this remembering, like I'm just going to wait until thingsare normal again. Is that what our brain wants to be doing? Andso it's almost this reminiscing problem that's getting you stuck to wear, because ourbrains love status quo. Everything that we do, everything ahead of us,is actually set up based on what has worked in the past. So yoursubconscious is not making decisions on the exact information that's ahead of you and what'sgoing to be best in the future, but what has worked before and soknowing that this is unlike anything any of us have ever seen or been inbefore. If you stick with that and are letting your subconsccious run the showbecause you're cognitively bogged down with this fear and all of these other things,versus sitting down and questioning yourself, having bigger conversations about what's next, whatit could look like, how this might be, you're gonna get stuck inthat trap of not being able to get out of what was into what couldbe and seeing it as an opportunity. Because not every business, and again, obviously with the caveat of this is a terrible thing and we all wishit hadn't happen, and but they're not. Every business is struggling right now.If we look at Zoom, which was business that they actually signed upmore new active users to zoom by the end of February of two thousand andtwenty. Then they signed up in all of two thousand and nineteen. Wow, it's a lot of people on zoom for the first time ever and figuringthat out. And you they're just huge amounts of business. They're having tofigure out an instant cart and other things with Amazon people that weren't using streamingtelevision services or maybe using that now, and so it doesn't there are thingsthat we can all be offering to be of service and of benefit if weare able to take that step back and really purvey the entire surroundings versus whatwe've been used to. I want to talk about that, taking that stepback, because what you said, I think, is key. Our brainis designed to protect us and we're making decisions upon past experiences. What worked, what didn't work. Fear, that human emotion. It does protect us, but to the point it can also hold us back. In the PODCAST, you noted that that a lack of control that we're all kind of feelingright now, whether it is in business, whether it's on the home front,whether it's home schooling for kids like my wife is right now. Thatlack of control is a breeding ground for not necessarily making the best decisions,taking time to stop, pause, think, review reflect. How can a financialbrand have the awareness that, yeah,...

...we're these are these are scary timesfor ourselves internally, but they're also scary times for those in the communitiesthat we serve. So that we don't get stuck internally, because now wecan help other people escape those fears. What do you recommend to have thatconversation? One of the things I've been recommending to my financial institution clients isto look at the staff that you have, because, whether it's because you havea lack of laptops that can be running vpn or you have any lackof staff, that they're not able to be functioning in a branch in theway that they had and that you're probably still paying them the salary versus layingthem off. I know there are a lot of financial institutions in that spaceright now. So you're putting money toward people that don't feel like they cando anything, but they might want a higher level project, something to taketheir mind off of what's going on. So those people are really primed withtheir completely out of their element. They're looking at something different. What arethe pieces that you have of policies and procedures that are outstanding that need tobe updated, that they can be doing without access to a core system andbe upleveling the business? And this sort of a down time, if youhave people that could be writing blog posts or researching what other institutions are doingor what the needs are and finding, if you were going to apply forgrants or if your customers are going to be applying for grants and loans,how you can be supportive, what people are looking for, the words they'reusing, giving them research tasks to where they feel like they're doing something,and then you can help that resonate back with you. Are doing this thingto help us help our communities moving forward, and it's this bigger picture of somethingthat we're going to be doing where, a team, we're working together.You're getting that message of unity forward and helping them to feel like they'reof use at this time instead of just sitting idle. Yeah, you knowthat idea of keeping you keeping people busy with giving them a sense of purpose, tying that back to the organizational purpose. I think a really interesting example ofthis is what I've seen with Zappos and how Zappos is literally like guys, pick up the phone, give us a call if you just need totalk. Yeah, we're here to listen. It's not about selling shoes anymore.It's about connecting with another human being. If you need us to order groceriesfor you, we will do that and it's taking out the old playbookthat that was pre covid nineteen, developing a new one for this new reality. But but what I see fromtimes, maybe you do as well, asthe fear of change. So there's the fear of the unknown as one partof this, but then there's the fear of change and how that can holdus back. Why is change so hard and what habits can we established tomake change easier, both for ourselves, for our teams and for the peoplein the communities that a financial brand might serve? Yeah, so change isbelieved to be hard traditionally and if we...

...look at, if you the waythat we approached what we how we think we should be best at changing,because we do it wrong. It's very difficult to do there are some reallygreat books on habits from James Clear and Charles Doohig that get into some ofthis and I have some episodes on habits that gets into that as well.But understanding the que that gets you to the next step of the reward thatyour brain is trying to get. Understanding how habits actually work in the brainis important to be able to change them more appropriately. I do a lotof work with mindset as well and knowing that we just you can't have asmany goals. We all think that we've got eight thousand projects and we're multitaskingand doing all of these things, and that's just a recipe for your brainto keep you stuck and constantly productively procrastinating, I like to call it, onbusy work that's not actually doing much of anything. So if you justhave one to know more than three goals of things that you're working on inyour life and business that you're able to really be focusing on and working toward, and that keeps the message clear, it keeps you moving forward. Theexample that I want to share about change and how it can be easy whenyou work with the brain is a business that's called the litery, and Iinterviewed them on the podcast as well. They are in Europe and they aretrying to tackle this product, this problem of people that litter, which iseverywhere and it's a huge problem for communities and cities and everything. And ifyou were to say getting people to recycle properly and throw things away, it'sa change that's difficult and possibly impossible to do and tackle. But what theyhave done is understanding the way that the brain actually works. Created a processof turning litter into lottery tickets and then if you pick up garbage and properlysorted into these smart garbage cans, you get a lottery ticket and that's createdwith the city each where you could win, you know, a million euros fromthis piece of litter that you properly threw away. And they tested thatin movie theaters, which are traditionally the grossest places of all time and thatno one ever picks up their garbage, and they had a hundred percent complianceover an entire month across four different movie theaters, of people throwing everything awayand searching through their bags and running through the aisles to try and find asmuch garbage as possible to throw away. So when you work with the brain, change doesn't have to be difficult. Technology has transformed our world and digitalhas changed the way consumer shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumersmake purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if they walk intoa branch at all. But your financial rand still wants to grow loans anddeposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelmingfor any financial brand marketing and sales leader.

But it doesn't have to, becauseJames Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way alongyour digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growthcom to get a preview ofhis best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now foryou and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifestothat was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practicaland proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate ten times more loansand deposits. Now back to the show. You speak to mind set, youknow, and I've read the work of Carol de Wick. I meanit's fascinating. I can remember my fourth grader starting school this year and theyspent the whole first month of school not learning any new subjects. They spinit on mindset. They spent it on goal setting, the big three forthe day. I'm going to get these three things accomplished. If I getthose three checked off, boom, boom, boom. Now this litany of listthat's like overwhelming and you in the day you feel defeated. There wasa study. That's why I want to talk a little bit about mindset here. There was a study that was done by Td Bank, and I loveit when financial brands are starting to do these anthropological studies, these psychology studiesaround people and their relationships with money. What Td Bank found is that peoplewho visualize their goals are less anxious about budgeting and those that don't, andthey feel more accomplished and they feel happier. So talk to me a little bitmore about this idea of mindset and goal setting, because I think thatis a key opportunity that financial brand. We transcend the conversation beyond the traditionalpromotion of dollars and sins, but we're moving into a new age of coaching, empowerment and that even financial well being. That coaching right. The thing aboutI love that that was what your fourth grader went through, by theway. That is awesome and something that will be definitely serving all those kidswhile in the new normal that we have here, but by narrowing goals.So just think about when you set your to do list in a traditional methodof which we all suffer from optimism bias. So you think that even though Ionly accomplished one thing today, tomorrow I'm going to get all these twentythings done that are on my list, which never happens. And so youkeep moving. You have the long to do list and then you go andyou get three things done and you feel like a big giant failure because youonly got three things done, whereas if you start the day and say Ihave to do there's one thing or, you know, up to three.I prefer the sort of one thing method. But if you have your big goal, this is the most important thing that I'm trying to accomplish over thenext ninety days. So what are we doing for, you know, Telesservices or updating our branding or getting new content that's out there? You havethis big goal and you have one thing a day that you're going to bedoing and once you get that done,...

...then you get to tackle everything elsethat's on your list. When you've framed it with this anchor of one itemyou're going to do and you get three done, you feel amazing like,oh my Gosh, look at all this stuff we got done and I'm goingto do now. I'm already three D's ahead, days ahead, and Ican do this next thing and that you're just going to snowball on that momentumyes, versus feeling like a big flop because you had even just five thingson your list and only got three. It feels completely different, even thoughyou accomplish the same amount of things, but it's the way that you approachedthat day that can totally impact whether you're in a vicious or a virtuous cycle. What you just said momentum, I think one of the my favorite exerciseand and that framing of ninety days as different, because normally in financial serviceswe've looked at three to five your strategic plans and that's all. And now, in this dynamic of Covid postcovid world, ninety days is a lot more realistic. But it's every ninety days, simple exercise. What worked well?What are you working on right now that you're excited about, and what areyou excited about in the future, and using those moments in time to buildmomentum going forward, and I love that that snowball effect. You talked aboutthe bias of optimism. There was another research study that was conducted by FrostBank out of Texas and I thought this was very interesting and be beginning atyour perspective on this, to where they worked with a couple of behavioral psychologistsand behavioral economic economists to where they found that optimists are seven times more likelyto experience financial well being. Optimist experience a hundred, forty five few daysof financial stress per year than pessimists, and optimists have half the number offinancial setbacks is pessimist. So there's that. There's the opportunity, once again oflooking at a financial brand, becoming more of that coach, providing someonewith accountability. What are your thoughts on that, of helping someone move froma fixed mindset to a growth mindset and in the financial brain is facilitating thattype of transformation? Yeah, I'll need to check out that study because I'mnot familiar with it, but I did do an episode at the end oflast year about the benefits of gratitude and having this positive mindset, and thereare so many studies that look at you know, when you behave in thisgracious, gratitude driven space, you become happy. You're happier. So there'sthis and then people that aren't practicing regular gratitude will say, well, youknow, okay, Oprah, because she's a big proponent of this, andso, as Tony Robbins and Ariana Huffington. It's like it's easy for you tosay that because you have all of the success already, so you're definitelyhappy and grateful for it. But they all say, you know, youstart gratitude first and move your way in. And if you have this optimism andyou behave in this way, you expect the brain gets what it expects. And so to talk a little bit about how the brain is sorting information. Ninety nine percent of what's happening for our brains at any given time issubconscious processing and just a very small amount...

...is happening in the conscious. Andso what has been found is your subconscious can process eleven million bits of informationper second. Right your conscious can only do forty, just forty, whichis very sad. And so if you think every bit of information your subconsciousis looking at has confirmation bias. It's finding what's going to prove itself tobe right because it likes this. So if you're looking for negatives, youwill find them and you'll find the whoppers that are out there. If you'relooking for positive reinforcement, you're going to find that too, because for everyone thing that gets through to your conscious brain, two hundred and seventy fivethousand other things didn't make it so if you're looking for the good that's outthere and the things that can help you to succeed, and you know,in a meeting, I give this example of if you feel like your bossis out to get you back when we're in physical like meetings in the sameroom and then they look toward you while they're talking and you would say,O man, he's looking at me. He must think there's probably something onmy shirt. I can't believe he noticed that. It's so bad and I'mjust not going to speak up, whereas the person who has the positive mightsay, oh, he looked in my direction, he must want my input. I'm going to step up and say something now. The same action,when filtered through the different lenses of the person, can have a really bigimpact on those steps that you make. It's a matter of perspective, andperspective becomes one's reality. That's one of the reasons, like when we're talkingabout all of this fear and negativity, that we're just bombarded with all ofthis information, the bites and the bits and the subconscious. I've made recommendationsfor financial brands to do a seven day gratitude social challenge help get people outof the muck in elevate them to a new place that everyone's going to wantto play or not. Everyone's going to want to participate, but for thosethat do, they will thank you for thinking more than just about what's intheir wallet. They will thank you for thinking about my physical wellbeing, mymental wellbeing and then also my financial wellbeing, which is an area that I knowthat you've been working on with some recent research with Fullen, and that'swhere I want to transition the conversation. You've been looking at. How doesBehavioral Economics Increase Savings? Does it increase savings? What are the opportunities here? Yeah, so it definitely can, and that research studiated with a smallcredit union. The white paper came out last year and we went over asix month period of time that we had three group. So in one wasjust control. We watched them right. The second group got a letter atthe beginning saying hey, we're initiating this savings challenge based on research. Ifsomeone gives you a goal and you break that into sub goals, it canhelp you to save more. So it's twenty four weeks and a recommended amountand just try to save and pick your number and you do the same amountof free every week. And then the third group got basically the same letterwith a slight tweet that they also got...

...this refrigerator magnet that went with itthat helped them to track their savings along the way around the edge of themagnet were it was broken into wedges, and so you could actually scratch likelottery tickets if you saved, and then had little like awesome way to go. Yay for you if you saved throughout the process. And so the reasonit was a magnet instead of an APP or something like that is because ourbrains are constantly scanning the environment around us and this is a physical reminder,a representation, of manifestation of this idea of saving, and so having themagnet on your fridge versus a card in your wallet or whatever it is.Every time you walk by are you see it, you think, Oh yeah, I'm committed to saving for, you know, Kids College or for thatEmergency Fund or whatever it happens to be, and it's triggering, reminding you,even when you don't realize it. And the people in that group hadhigher and PS scores and they had a higher savings rate at the end ofthe six months. So it's a very interesting perspective that I agree strongly withbecause I've always advocated yes, we do all of our work in the digitalworld, but it's two sides of the equation. It's the DX or thedigital experience, plus the Chex or the human experience. Both are required andreally the human experience that's the physical world, and the opportunities come from looking tomake the intangible of digital tangible. So something is simple and almost archaicas a refrigerator magnet created positive change for these people. Looking at the otheropportunities, what do you see from your perspective or through the work that you'redoing to help consumers transform behaviors, make positive changes, little bets, littlewinds every step of the way, and how can a financial brand facilitate thatjourney? Yeah, it's I'm definitely feeling all of our like same wavelength aswe're talking or definitely jamming on the same concepts. I think I actually so. I did do an episode on how to make concepts tangible and one ofthe examples I gave in that episode that I always thought was one of thesmartest things I had seen is when progressive did there. So the price gunis one piece, but also, if you notice, they have just stacksand stacks, like a big library or if you were in a bookstore,of the policies as boxes that you could go and grab off of a shelf, and so making this concept of where, Oh, that's a thing I couldgo grab and touch, which triggers loss of version and perceived ownership,and having you right realize what's there and the vastness of what they are andall the different types. It's making that into something that your brain can justinstantly understand. What that there's more to it than just digital. They didn'thave to actually create boxes, even though they turned it into a character andthings like that. But whether you're turning...

...digital things into a an experience ina video that you can kind of understand, or if you're able to relate bystory and helping people to activate their mirror neurons where they feel like they'repart of what's going on, they're a bigger piece of something that you're puttingtogether, or if it is physical things that you're sending to people that theycan have to remember you by if you happen to have a whole like hordeof hand sanitizer. I know back at my days at the Credit Union,you know, we had a bunch of individual hand sanitizers. It seems likeit would be a good time to put those in the mail for people rightnow if you have them around. But yeah, yeah, I mean whatyou talk about, that idea of marrying and story and placing yourself into thatstory. I just had a conversation for the podcast recently with Andy Janning andsome of the work that he's been doing where he's been doing deep research aroundphotography and the images of people and the stories that financial brands are subconsciously communicatingwith stock photography and how that's causing more harm than good. Even the HarvardBusiness Review they say that phases of people who look like US release oxytocin andit's that fil good connection, that chemical that creates empathy, and empathy todayin this digital world, this post covid nineteen digital world, with's call itfor the time being, you mentioned video. I've been a big advocate and aproponent for video as a communication channel from a marketing standpoint, from acell standpoint and in the future coaching standpoint. How can a financial brand capitalize onthat video? Because what I'm seeing you facetoface right now. Not onlyare recording the audio, but we're recording the video. I had interview withJim Russa while ago and we did the audience here like look, no,we got a re record this thing. We need the video. It's likelet's do it, and that video it just added so much more right.Yeah, being able to see and relate to people and you get those triggersand pieces. Our brains are wired. So I think it's eighty percent ofthat sensory information that we're bringing in at any given moment is through our eyessensing what's there, and so the visual queues, the things our brains arepicking up on where a slight you can tell I'm starting to smile or ifI kind of scratch my nose or whatever it is. It it changes everythingand the way we perceive information, which is why people aren't switching to justbeing on phone calls right now. But we're looking for video options to beable to have conversations, you relate to the person. But this priming pieceis also it's very important. It's very dangerous spot for a lot of brandsto be and if they don't understand the way that the brain is interpreting thatimagery. I was working with a client recently that the just doing. It'sa financial investment firm and talking about rising up and elevating what you're working on, and so it was like a sunrise in the background, but the woman, it's her back. You can tell...

...she's sort of looking down and youcan see that her arms are crossed and I said no, right, you, you can't do this. You need her to she needs to have herhead and even though we can't see her face, you need her head tobe angled up. You need to have her arms down at her side orsomething else, because it's triggering this very depressed feels more like a sunset thana sunrise. or She's not in a really good spot and those slight tweakscan have such a huge impact on the next steps. And you know,one of my favorite studies looks at there was a backpack in a room,in a briefcase in a room and they had people working on cooperative projects andthose in the backpack room were much more collaborative than the briefcase room, eventhough everybody said they never saw it. You know, our brains are pickingup on all these things all the time. Yeah, yeah, I mean hearingjust the small little nuance is those things that we typically but overlook.I can tell you through all the digital secret shopping studies that we continuously dofor financial brands, small changes have incremental results. I mean even like thethe idea of cognitive load. Financial Services. Money is inherently a very complex subject, but we don't do it a purpose. We add additional elements ofconfusion and complexity, like more that we can simplify, and that's where I'mseeing video communication in this post covid nineteen world. This is going to lastfor twelve to eighteen months. It's going to change the way that people shopby not only financial service but everything. I still want to talk with someone, I still want to connect with someone on the other end. That's videocommunicate. I'm quite bank has already been doing a great job with this intheir mobile APP. This has been such a wonderful conversation and appreciate you takingthe time to have this discussion. One last recommendation. I'M A financial brandmarketing team sells, team leader, leadership, team member. What's the one thingthat I should really focus on and take action, if it's just thatone thing, over the next, say, twelve months? I think for nowthe biggest thing to look at is framing and the context of trying toget into the mindset of the person on the other side, which we areall sort of in this right now, and so you're able to think abouthow you're able to relate to your potential customers, members, whatever it is, much more than ever before. And so if you think what are thethings you're stressed about? What are your friends concerned about? What are theyneeding help with? What would be alleviating for them? What are they sharingon your social channels? What do you feel inclined to share and click on? How can you incorporate that into your product, services, offering, messaging, updating your website, whatever that is? And as you get all of thattogether, to know that just being thoughtful, that's I end every episodeand all of my email signature is this message of be thoughtful. So puta little bit more thought in, because those small changes do make a verybig difference. Thank you very much. Leaning anyone listening. What's to connectwith you once to continue the conversation with you. What is the best wayfor them to do that? So you...

...can find me on Linkedin, justas Molina Palmer, and find me in that way, and I'm on allthe socials as the brainy Biz Biz and you can also get the podcast ofthe brainy business or the brainy businesscom. Oh Yeah, thank you again forjoining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thanks so much.Until next time, be well, do good and wash your hands. Thankyou for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave usa review on apple podcast, Google podcasts or spotify and subscribe while you're there. To get even more practical, improven insights, visit www dot digital growthcomto grab a preview of James Roberts best selling book banking on digital growth,or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Insideyou'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve key areas of focusthat empower you to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Until nexttime, be well and do good.

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