Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

29) #ExponentialInsights: Using Your Brain to Cope With Change w/ Melina Palmer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This is your brain on change.

And it's not pretty. Our brains love the status quo.

During COVID, however, there's no more status quo. Banks and credit unions are forced to shift into digital offerings and electronic notaries. Staff members are working from home.

Our brain circuits are overloaded.

On this episode of the Banking on Digital podcast, Melina Palmer, founder and CEO of The Brainy Business and host of the Brainy Business podcast, talked about how to use your brain to cope with change.

We discussed:

-How financial brand marketing teams can tell a story of hope

-Ways financial brands can escape from fear-based thinking in a crisis

-Why behavioral economics increases savings

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Fear really propels ar subconscious togo in to overdrive. You were listening to banking ondigital growth, with James Robert Lay, a PODCASTA impowers financial brandmarketing sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potentialby generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential inside series, where James Robert Interviews, the industry'stop marketing sales and SYNTEC leaders sharing practical wisdom toexponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show wrinnings inhello, I am James Raberlay and welcome to another episode of the bankingondigital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the expinentialinsicht series, and I'm excited to welcome Melina Palmer to the showMelina is the founder and CEO of the brany business, and also the host ofthe brainy business podcast, and I believe her work ind. The insights thatshe shares as a behavioral economist are now more important than ever beforein a post, Covan nineteen world, four financial brands- hello, Melina Haythanks for havving me to begin thanks for being here to begin in the midst ofall of this confusion and chaos caused by this Cova nineteen crisis. So withthe good, what is one thing that you're excited about or maybe seesome opportunities for, even amidst all this chaos and crisis? You know, Ithink it's a really good opportunity for all businesses, not just financialinstitutions, to look at shaking things up. Our brains really love the statusquo, and I just did an episode on normal cbias, which is this tendency tothink that things will always stay the same and then once change is upon us.We don't think that the new world will ever you know we're waiting for thingsto go back to way. They were, and in this case where banks and credit unionsare being forced to Shif into this digital offerings and electronic notaries and not having wetsignatures, and what does that mean? And if our staff is working remotelyfrom home, where it really pushed things forward to see what matters andwhat doesn't and how you can provide better service when you're sort of fo,it's forced upon you, instead of letting us sort of drag our feet over along period of time, so you can see what's going to be beneficial forpeople in the new normal and then you can adopt and keep some things and letsome things revert back to where you were before what was working better,I'm with you. We will never go back to what the world once was. I'm seeingthis in all facits education, healthcare, even theres, O ce, a lot ofchanges in transformations happening there work banking, I mean entertainment.

All everything is really getting turnedupside down, but there are the opportunities there to transformourselves. You didae a an episode recently about how the human rbrainresponds to crisises and pandemics, and I recommend anyone listening to that tothis pot. Gass go hop over and listen to that one because I took away so muchfrom that. You talked about two key points: Number One. There's a framingissue at hand in this crisis in this pandymic and number two there'ssomething that you noted as a framing allusion. What are these and why is itimportant to note these points yeah, so the thing about a pandemic like coronavirus, and I talked about that an episode. Ninety one of the brainybusiness is that our brains, when we don't have control, you start to freakout a little bit, and this is where people go out and buy exorbitantamounts of toilet paper and hand sanitizer and make risky decisions anddo strange things even where you know it's irrational, but you just can'tstop up yourself because you're in this place of uncertainty and the only wayyou feel like you're, protecting your family or doing something is to stockup on canned goods or bottled water, whatever that happens to be and ourbrains get overwhelmed incredibly easily and quickly, and so, whensomeone has their conscious brain full of, what's going to happen, what'shappening with my job, what about my kids or school's, going to close allthese different pieces? Then you start to have your subconscious takeover andit makes these sort of silly irrational choices that help it to calm and feelgood. So the framing piece is that we're talking about. I believe whatyou're referencing in this case is having to do with talking about thehand washing versus the masks and and whatnot yeah, and so what feels likethe easy thing to do would be to do hand, Santiser or get a mask and thenactually now, since that was recorded, CD C is saying we should be wearingmasks and whatnot. But you think about so handmade masks that someone wouldmake it at home is what we're saying you should be buying now and those areactually as far as what research is showing not really actually effectiveagainst viruses, and so you ask like why would the CVCB recommending peoplewear those? And then it's this thing about priming, the brain and thinkingthings are more serious than they are adding a little bit of a scare tacticto keep people home and make social or physical, distancing more impactful,because you look outside and don't want to be walking around with lots ofpeople wearing masks on their faces because it just feels worse. So again,then there's this difference with the flu and that people didn't feel theneed to wash their hands in the same...

...way, even though you know it'spotentially more contagious and it's the same stuff that you're supposed tobe doing, but it feels so different because it's new and we don't know whatcould happen and where you think you'd probably be OK, if you got it, you justdon't don't know, there's there's no way to know so that fear really propelsour subconscious to go into overdrive. You speak about the media and one ofthe things that you noted in this particular episode. Ninety one was thatwe have the a availability for bias when our brains believe what we hearmost to be true, Ranand right now. There is to the point that you just maythere's a lot of fear. There's a lot of negativity. Is there a way for afinancial brand marketing team, a cells team to possibly paint a differentpicture to tell a different story? Maybe a story of help, a story of hopewh? What could you recommend for a financial brand marketing cells teem tooptimize communication strategies messaging strategies over the nexttwelve to eighteen months? 'CAUSE? I don't really see this going away anytime soon agreed. Unfortunately, I think we'rehere for for a while, but, like you said, it is a really good opportunityto find those stories of of hope and support that you are giving to peoplein your community that are able, to you, know, maintain their income or haveloan products available that are bridging the gap or other support thatyou're creating M. I know that some financial institutions, right now withthe loans that as F cording, we don't exactly how that's going to work, but alot of big financial institutions are saying it's only. Our only people thatare existing businesses with us are eligible to then get aloan from us,because we don't even want to deal with that headache, and I know that thereare some that are talking about being ones that are offering it to peoplethat weren't already having business accounts with them. So if you're, oneof those spreading that word to say, hey we're here for everybody not justfor people who ere with us on the front end can definitely make a difference.And if you look at the types of things that have been trending and been shared,actually some of the bake news that was positive in its vibe was this. You knowdolphins have returned to the canals in Venice, and you know the world isrising up now that ons aren't everywhere, which has been proven to befalse right. That's not actually what's going on, but people wanted to sharethat. You wanted to put something nice out there and all the you know meansand humor. So I you are able to make something that is not making light ofthe situation, but it's positive and showing change in strategic forward.thinking, think that can help some brands to stand out and gain loyaltythat they'll be able to keep on the post side of this crisis yeah, becauseI me N, you study the brain, you saidhol the mechanics, and it goes sodeep and it's like. Are we wired as...

...human beings to continuously get out ofthis mucky place and try to send to something better? Is that what we allhope for yeah? Yes, it's an interesting! We do want to be on the other side, butthat M Y W that normalsy by us again, where you want it's this, rememberingI'm just going to wait until things are normal again an then what our brainwants to be doing, and so it's almost this reminiscing problem. That'sgetting use stuck to Wer, because our brains love status quo. Everything thatwe do do everything ahead of us is actually set based on what has workedin the past, so you're sub Consciouso M, not making decisions on the exactinformation. That's ahead of you and what's going to be best in the future,but what has worked before, and so knowing that this is, unlike anything,any of us have ever seen or been in before. If you stick with that and areletting your subconscious ron the show because you're cognitively bogged downwith this fear and all of these other things versus sitting down andquestioning yourself having bigger conversations about what's next, whatit could look like how this might be you're gonna get stuck in that trap ofnot being able to get out of what was into what could be and seeing it as anopportunity, because not every business and again, obviously, with the caveat o.This is a terrible thing and we all wish it hadn't happened, but there not.Every business is struggling right now. If we look at Zoom, which was business,that they actually signed up more new active users to zoom by the end ofFebruary of twosand and twenty, then they signed up in all of two thousandand nineteen WHOA. It's a lot of people unzoom for the first time ever andfiguring that out and you they're just huge amounts of business there havingto figure out an instacart and other things with Amazon people that weren'tusing streaming television services, or maybe using that now, and so it doesn't.There are things that we can all be offering to be ob service and a benefitif we are able to take that step back and really purvey the entiresurroundings versus what we've been used to. I want to talk about thattaking that stepback, because what you said, I think, is key. Our brain isdesigned to protect us and we're making decisions upon past experiences. Whatworke? What did it work? Fear that human emotion it does protect us, butto the point it can also hold us back in the podcast. You noted that that alack of control that we're all kind of feeling right now, whether it Isninbusiness, whether it's on a home front, whether it's home schooling for kids,like my wife, is right now that lack of control is a greedingground for not necessarily making the best decisions taking time to stop pause. Think revewreflect how can a financial brand have...

...the awareness that yeah thee? These arescary times for ourselves internally, but there are also scary times forthose in the communities that we serve so that we don't get stuck internally,because now we can help other people. ESCAPI is fears. What do you recommendto have that conversation? One of the things I've been recommending to myfinancial institution clients is to look at the staff that you have becausewether it's, because you have a lack of laptops that can be running vpn or youhave any lack of staff that they're not able to be functioning in a branch inthe way that they had and that you're, probably still paying them a salaryversus laying them off. I know there are a lot of financial institutions inthat space right now, so you're putting money toward people that don't feellike they can do anything, but they might want a higher level project,something to take their mind off of what's going on, so those people arereally primed they're, completely out of their element, they're. Looking atsomething different. What are the pieces that you have of policies andprocedures that are outstanding, that need to be updated, that they can bedoing without access to a core system and be upleveling the business in thesort of a down time? If you have people that could be writing block posts orresearching what other institutions are doing or what the needs are and findingif you were going to apply for grants or if you'r customers are going to beapplying for grants and loans, how you can be supportive? What people arelooking for? The words they're using giving them research tasks to wherethey feel like they're doing something? And then you can help that resonateback with. You are doing this thing to help us hell our communities movingforward and it's this bigger picture of something that we're going to be doingwe're a team we're working together, you're, getting that message of unityforward and helping them to feel like they're of use at this time, instead ofjust sitting idle yeah. You know that idea of keep know keeping people busywith giving them a sense of purpose tying up back to the organizationalpurpose. I think a really interesting example of this is what I've seen withT ZAPPOS and how Zappos is literally like guys pick up the phone. Give us acall. If you just need to talk H, we're here to Litin it's not about sellingshoes anymore, it's about connecting with another human being. If you needus to order groceries for you, we will do that and it's it's taking out theold playbook that that was precoven. Nineteen developing a new one for thisnew reality. But what I see sometimes- and maybe you do as well as the fear ofchange, so there's t a fear of the unknown as one part of this, but thenthere's the fear of change and how that can hold us back. Why is change so hard?In what habits can we establish to make change easier both for ourselves, forour teams and for the people in the communities that a financial brandmight serve yeah? So change...

...is believed to be hard traditionallyand if we look at if y the way that we approachd what w how we think we shouldbe best at changing, because we do it wrong it's very difficult to do. Thereare some really great books on habits Um from James, clear and Charles Dwhig,that get into some of this, and I have some episodes on habits that gets intothat as well, but understanding the CE that gets you to the next step of thereward that your brain is trying to get understanding how habits. Actually workin the brain is important to be able to change them more appropriately. I do alot of work with mindset as well and knowing that we just you, can't have asmany goals. We all think that we've got O no eight thousand projects and we'remultitasking and doing all of these things, and that's just a RECIPP foryour brain to keep you stuck and constantly productively procrastinating.I like to call it on a fizzy work. That's not actually doing much ofanything! So if you just have one to no more than three goals of things thatyou're working on in your life and business, that you're able to really befocusing on and working toward, and that keeps the message clear. It keepsyou moving forward the example that I want to share about change and how itcan be easy when you work with the brain is a business. That's called theliterary and I interviewed them on the podcast as well. They are in Europe andthey are trying to tackle this Pr. This problem of people that litter, which iseverywhere, and it's a huge problem for communities and cities and everything,and if you were to say getting people to recycle properly and throw thingsaway, it's a change, that's difficult and possibly impossible to do andtackle. But what they have done is understanding the way that the brainactually works, created a process of turning litter into lottery tickets.And then, if you pick up garbage and properly sorted into these smartgarbage cans, you c get a lottery ticket and that's created with the citywhere you could win. You know a million euros from this piece of litter thatyou properly threw away and they tested that in movie theaters, which aretraditionally the grossest places of all time and that no one ever picks uptheir garbage and they had a hundred percent compliance over an entire monthacross four different movie. Theatres of people, throwing everything away andsearching through their bags and running through the aisles to try andfind as much garbage as possible to throw away. So when you will work withthe brain, change doesn't have to be difficult. Technology has transformedour world, and digital has changed the way consumers shot for and buyfinancial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions longbefore they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all, but yourfinancial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digitalgrowth can feel confusing, frustrating...

...and overwhelming for any financialbrand marketing in sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James Robertwrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digitalgrowth journey visit, www, dot, digital growth, dotcom to get a preview of hisbest selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now foryou, and your team from Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketingmanifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed fullof practical amprovent insights. You can start using today to confidentlygenerate ten times more loans and deposits. Now, back to the show, you speak to mind. Set I've read the work of Carrol de Wick. Imean it's fascinating. I can remember my fourth grader starting school thisyear and they spent the whole first month of school, not learning any newsubjects. They spin it on mindset, they spend it on goal, setting the biggetthree for the day, I'm going to get these three things accomplished. If Iget those three checked off Ubumbum, not this litany of list, that's likeoverwhelming, and in the day you feel defeated. There was a study. That's o!I wantt Talk Li bit about mindset here. There is a study that was done by TedBank and I love it when financial brands are Starti to do these,anthropological studies, these psychology studies around people andtheir relationships with money. What t dbank found is that people whovisualize their goals are less anxious about budgeting, an those that don'tand they feel more accomplished, and they feel happier so talk to me alittle bit more about this idea of mindset and goal setting 'cause. Ithink that is a key opportunity that financial brands. We transcend theconversation beyond the traditional promotion of dollars and sense, butwe're moving into a new age of of coaching and powerment and that evenFininto well being but coaching right. The thing about I. I love that that waswhat your fourth grader went through by the way that is awesome and somethingthat will be definitely serving all those kids whill in the new normal thatwe have here but by narrowing goals. So just think about when you set your todo list in a traditional method of which we all suffer from optimism. Bi,as so. You think that, even though I only accomplish one thing today,tomorrow, I'm going to get all these twenty things done. That are on my list,which never happens, and so you keep moving. You have the long to do listand then you go and youget three things done and you feel like a big giantfailure, because you only got three things done, whereas if you start theday and say I have to do, there's one thing or you know up to three: I Iprefer th the sort of one thing method, but if you have your big goal, this isthe most important thing that I'm trying to accomplish over the nextninety days. So what are we doing for noteleservices or updating or brandingor getting new content? That's out there. You have this big goal and youhave one thing a day that you're going...

...to be doing and once you get that done,then you get to tackle everything else. That's on your list when you've framedit with this anchor of one item, you're going to do and you get three done. Youfeel amazing, like Oh, my Gosh, we'll get all this stuff. We got done and I'mgoing to do now. I'm already no three days adstays ahead, and I can do thisnext thing and t you're just going to snowball on that momentum. Your fersesfeeling like a big flop, because you had even just five things on your listand only got three. It feels completely different, even though you accomplishthe same amount of things, but it's the way that you approach that day that cantotally impact whether you're in a bitious or a virtuous cycle. What youjust said momentum, I think one of th, my favorite exercise and that framingof ninety days I different 'cause. Normally in financial services, we'velooked at three to five year strategic plans and that's Al and now in thisdynamic of Covet postcoveen world. Ninety days is a lot more realistic,but it's every ninety days, simple exercise. What worked? Well? What areyou working on right now that you're excited about and what ae you excitedout in the future and using those moments in time to build momentum goingFord? And I love that that snowball effect. You talked about the Abias ofoptimism. There was another research study that was conducted by Frost Bankout of Texas, and I thought this was very interesting. An be it'd be go toget your perspective on this to where they worked with a couple of behavialpsychologists and behavial economic economists to where they found thatoptimists are seven times more likely to experience financial well beingoptimists experience a hundred and forty five fewer days of financialstress, Peryo than pessimists and optimists have half the number offinancial setbacks is pessimist. So there's that there's the opportunityonce again of looking at a financial brand becoming more of that coach,providing someone with accountability. What are your thoughts on that ofhelping someone move from a a fixed mindset to a growth mindset andthe financial brain is facilitating that type of transformation? Yeah I'llneed to check out that study. 'cause, I'm not familiar with it, but I did doan episode at the end of last year about the benefits of gratitude havingthis positive mindset- and there are so many studies that look at you know whenyou behave in this gracious gratitude driven space, you become happy you'rehappier so there's this and then people that aren't practicing regulargratitude will say well Yo K, W, ok, OPRA ecause. She he's a big proponentof this, and so is Tony Robins and Aranna Huffington it s like it's easyfor you to say that, because you have all of the success already so you'redefinitely happy and grateful for it, but they all say you know you startgratitude first and move your way in and if you have this optimism and you behave in this way,you expect the brain gets, what it expects and so to talk a little bitabout how the brain is sorting information. Ninety nine percent ofwhat's happening for our brains at any given time is subconscious processingand just o very small amount is...

...happening in the conscience. And sowhat has been found is you're subconscious can process eleven millionbits of information per seconds Bor. Your conscience can only do forty, justforty, which is very sad, and so, if you think, every bit of informationyou're subconscious is looking, has confirmation bias it's finding what'sgoing to prove itself to be right because it likes this. So if you'relooking for negatives, you will find them and you'll find the wappers thatare out there. If you're looking for positive reenforcement you're going tofind that too, because for every one thing that gets through to yourconsciouse brain two hundred and seventy five thousand other thingsdidn't make it. So, if you're looking for the good that's out there and thethings that can help you to succeed, and you know in a meeting, I give thisexample of if you feel like your boss, is out to get you back when we're inphysical, like meetings in the same room, and then they look toward youwhile they're talking- and you would say- Oh man he's looking at me- he mustthink there's, probably something o' shre an. I can't believe. Hou Noticethat it's so bad and I'm just not going to speak up, whereas the person who hasthe positive might say. Oh he looked in my direction. He must want my input,I'm going to step up and say something now. The same action when filteredthrough the different lenses of the person can have a really big impact onthose steps that he make it's a matter of perspective n perspective. Itbecomes one's reality. That's one of the reasons like when we're talkingabout L, this fear of negativity that we're just bombarded with all of thisinformation, the bites and the bits and t subconscious. I've maderecommendations for financial brands to do a seven day. Gratitude SocialChallenge, help get people out of the muck and elevate them to a new place,not everyone's going to want a play or not everyone's going, Ta want toparticipate, but for those that do they will thank you for thinking more thanjust about. What's in their wallet, they will thank you for thinking aboutmy physical, well, being my mental well being and then also my financial, wellbeing, which is an area that I know that you've been working on with somerecent research with folen and that's where I want to transition. Theconversation you've been looking at. How does Behavioral Economics IncreaseSavings? Does it increase savings? What are the opportunities here yeah, so itdefinitely can and that research study aded with a small credit union. Thewhite peoper came out last year and we in over six month period of time thatwe had three groups so in one was just control. We watched them right. Thesecond group got a letter at the beginning, saying heyward initiatingthis savings challenge based on research. If someone gives you a goaland you break that into sub Gols, it can help you to save more. So it'stwenty four weeks and a recommended amount and just try to save and pickyour number and you do the same amount of ree every week and then the thirdgroup got basically the same letter...

...with a slight tweak that they also gotthis refrigerator, magnet that went with it that helped them to track theirsavings along the way around the edge of the magnet were. It was broken intowedges, and so you could actually scratch like lottery tickets. If yousaved and then add little like Ahso way to go ya for you, if you savedthroughout the process and so the reason it was a magnet instead of an apor something like that is because our brains are constantly scanning theenvironment around us, and this is a physsical reminder of representation ofmanifestation of this idea of saving and so having the magnet on your fridgeversus a card in your wallet or whatever. It is every time you walk byor you see it, you think Oh yeah, I'm committed to saving for Kids College orfor that Emergency Fund or whatever it happens to be, and it's triggeringreminding you even when you don't realize it, and the people in thatgroup had higher n PS scores and they had higher savings rate at the end ofthe six months. So it's a very interesting perspective that I agree strongly with because I've alwaysadvocated. Yes, we do all of our work in the digital world, but it's twosides of the equation: it's the DX or the digital experience, plus the Atexor the human experience both are required and really the humanexperience. That's the physical world and the opportunitis come from lookingto make the intangible of digital, tangible, Jo something is simple andalmost archaic is, as a refrigerator, magnet, created positive change forthese people. Looking at the other opportunities, what do you see fromyour perspective or through the work that you're doing to help consumerstransform behaviors BIK positive changes? Little bets little winds everystep of the way and how can hi Financial Bran facilitate that journey?Yeah? It's I'm definitely feeling all of our like same wave length as we'retalking we're, definitely jamming on the same concepts. I think I actuallyso I did do an episode on how to make concepts tangible and one of theexamples I gave in that episode that I always thought was one of the smartestthings I had seen is when progressive did ther. So the price gun is one piece,but also, if you notice, they have just stacks and stacks like a biglibrary or if you were in a bookstore of the policies as boxes that you couldgo and grab off of a shelf and so making this concept of where Oh, that'sa thing, I could go grab and touch which triggers loss, aversion andperceive ownership and having you r realize, what's there in the vastnessof what they are and all the different types. It's making that into somethingthat your brain can just instantly understand what that there's more to itthan just digital. They didn't have to actually create boxes. Even though theyturned it into a character and things like that, but whether you're turningdigital things into anexperience in a...

...video that you can kind of understandor if you're able to relate by story and helping people to activate theirmirrorneracs, where they feel like they're part of what's going on they'rea bigger piece of something that you're putting together or if it is nowphysical things that you're sending to people that they can have to rememberyou by if you happen to have a whole like hoard of hand sanitizer. I knowback at my days at the Credit Union. You know we had a bunch of individualhand sanitizers, it seems like it would be a good time to put those in the mailfor people right now. If you have them around, but yeah yea H, I mean what youtalk about, that idea of of marrying and story and placing yourself intothat story. I just had a conversation for the PODTAST H recently with AndyJanning and some of the work that he's been doing. Where he's been doing deepresearch around photography and the images of people and the stories thatfinancial brains are subconsciously, communicating withstock photography andhow that's causing more harm than good, even the Harvard Business Review, theysay that faces of people who look like us release Oxytosin, and that's thatfill good connection that chemical that creates empathy and empathy to day inthis digital world. This postcoven nineteen digital world was called forthe time being, you mentioned, video I've been a big advocate and aproponent for video, as communication channel from a marketingstandpoint, from a cell standpoint and in the future a coaching standpoint.How can a financial brand capitalize on that video, because w i'me seeing youface the face right now, not only a recording the Audia but we're recordingthe video. I had an interview with Gimarisa a while ago and we did the audand e like look. No, we got TA rerecord Thi thing. We need the videos like,let's do it and that video it just added so much more right, yeah Beni toe, see and relate to people, and you get those triggers nd and pieces. Ourbrains are wired, so I think it's Um. Eighty percent of that censoryinformation that we're bringing in at any given moment is through our eyessensing. What's there and so the visual cues, the things our brains are pickingup on where a flight you can tell I'm starting to smile or if I kind ofscrench my nose or whatever it is it. It changes everything and the way weperceive information, which is why people aren't switching to just beingon phone calls right now, but we're looking for video options to be able tohave conversations you relate to the person, but this priming piece is also.It's very important is very dangerous spot for a lot of brands to be, and ifthey don't understand the way that the brain is interpreting that imagery. Iwas working with the client recently that the doing M it's a financialinvestment firm and talking about rising up and elevating what you'reworking on, and so it was like a sunrise in the background, but thewoman, it's her back y. u can tell...

...she's sort of looking down and you cansee that her arms are crossed, and I said no Y, you can't do this. You needher. She needs to have her head an even though we can't see her face. You needher head to be angled up. You need to have her arms down at her side orsomething else, because it's triggering this very depressed feels more like asunset than a sunrise or she's, not in a really good spot, and those slighttweiks can have such a huge impact on the next steps- and you know one of myfavorite studies looks at there was a backpack in a room and a briefcase in aroom, and they had people working on cooperative projects and those in thebackpack room were much more colaborative than the briefcase room,even though everybody said they never saw it. You know our brains are pickingup on all these things. All the time yeah I mean hearing just the smalllittle nuances, those things that we typically would overlook. I can tellyou, through all the digital secret shopping studies, that we continuouslydo for financial brands. Small changes have incrimental results. I mean evenlike the the idea of cogative load financial services. Money is inherentlya very complex subject, but we don't do it a purpose. We add additionalelements of confusion and complexity, Amore that we can simplify. That'swhere I'm seeing videocommunication in this Postcova nineteen world. This isgoing to last for twelve to eighteen months. It's going to change the waythat ppeople shop by not only financial service, but everything I still want totalk with someone. I still want to connect with someone. On the other end,that's video, communicat Unqua Bank has already been doing a great job withthis in their mobile lap. This has been such a wonderful conversation andappreciatou taking the time to ta this discussion. One last recommendation: I'M Afinancial brand marketing team cells, team leader leadership, team member.What's the one thing that I should really focus on and take action, I thinjust that one thing over the next say: Twelve months, I think for now the biggest thing tolook at is framing and the context of trying to get into the mindset of theperson on the other side, which we are all sort of in this right now and soyou're able to think about how you're able to relate to your potentialcustomers, members, whatever it is much more than ever before, and so, if youthink what are the things you're stressed about? What are your friendsconcerned about? What have they needing help with what would be alleviating forthem? What are they sharing on your social channels? What do you feelincline to share and click on? How can you incorporate that into your productservices offering messaging updating your website, whatever that is, and asyou get all of that together to know that just being thoughtful that', I endevery episode and all of my email signature. Is this message of Bthoughtful so put a little bit more thought in, because those small changesdo make a very big difference. Thank you very much. Anyone listening wantsto connect with you wants to continue the conversation with you. What is thebest way for them to do that? So you...

...can find me in Lington just as MelinaPalmer and find me in that way, and I'm on all the socials as the brainy BizBiz, and you can also get the podcast of the brainy business or the Brainibusiness that come. Thank you again for joining me on another episode ofbanking, on digital growth. Think so much until next time be well, do goodand wash your hands. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay like what youhear tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast,Google, podcast or spotify, and subscribe, while you're there to geteven more practical, improvent insights visit, www don digital growth, dcom tograb a preview of James Robert's, best selling book banking on digital growth,or order a copy right now for you, and your team from Amazon inside you'llfind a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve keyareas of focus that empower you to confidently generate ten times moreloans and deposits. Until next time be well and do good.

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