Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

23) #ExponentialInsights: Why Chaotic Times Call for Human-Centered Design w/ Anne Legg

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s hard to ignore the fact that we’re sliding into a recession.

And your financial brand’s members will be impacted. 

How can you help in the midst of unprecedented times? 

In today’s episode, Anne Legg, Founder at THRIVE Strategic Services, shares the top actions financial brands can take to navigate these turbulent times. 

We discuss:

-Innovation in a crisis

-The 4 problems you need to solve for customers

-Human-Centered Design

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

The human comes to a credit units. Yet for very simple problem solved. The problems are. I have a shelter problem right. I either need to buy home or get dome. I have a transportation problem. I need a vehicle to get around and do things. I have a travel and play problem right, because those are the things I want to do. I also have a rainy day and retirement problem. You are listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Lay and welcome to another episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I am so excited to welcome and leg to the show because she has some really good insights to share based on the data work that she's been doing as the founder of thrive strategic services. So to begin the conversation. And what is one thing that you are working on right now in the midst of all of this coronavirus chaos? Oh Gosh. Well, first all, hey, how are you so much? Just a quick you know, I got to say this is awesome. I think that the one thing that I'm working on right now is how to get credit unions, number one, remind themselves of they're awesome because, while this is unprecedented times, but not wholly unfamiliar. So I'm working on some digital learnings around how do we remind ourselves of what we can do to make the members life better and also, more importantly, one of the things that's interesting right now is we've got to be really innovative. How do we bring innovation to solve some of these problems? And that's part of what thrive does. So working on building on some basically online educational series and tools that will help credit unions think about how they can do what they do differently and help improve the lives of the member. You know, I really like your focus around education, because what we're seeing in the media and just in general is the most basic human fear and that's fear of the unknown. Yes, and when you take an approach rooted around education, you could begin to provide some clarity and insight into the opportunities that people might not even be thinking about right now. So I know that you know you wrote a really good article about three actions that financial brands can take to help their account holders navigate these challenging, chaotic times, and could you just maybe dive...

...into some of those actions? The very first one you mentioned was identify potentially impacted account holders. Right, right. So let's just talk about I mean, and actually it's kind of funny, in the last twenty four hours, you know, things have of course changed. You know, we are, however you'd like to phrase it, in siding into recession. So that means that there's going to be layoffs, we're going to see financial impacts. That means you're members will be impacted. So there will be members who members and consumers who will have their financial condition change, and we know that specifically in the United States, there's a lot of people who don't even have four hundred dollars in their stavments account. So, as a credit union, what are your tools to do that in the first thing is to think about identifying who are those impacted audiences. And again, let me kind of start back a little bit by saying, you know, as I said at the beginning, these are unprecedented times, but they're not wholly unfamiliar. And let me just put some data in there. So you think about the last ten years and think about all the national disasters that are happening in this world right we've got hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes. Pretty units have always been there to determine how am I going to come in and step up and how am I going to make the members life better? Right, so your understanding, you are to have a framework of what to do. Already know you need to segment those who are going to be most impacted. Of those most impacted, what can you do? And Really, what's so neat about pretty in specifically is that they've got a couple really cool tools right off the bat, and the number one is that gorgeous skip a pay and skippa payments are an interesting little nugget. There's something that's Crean's have. They've got tons of they've been using it and specifically around the auto loone and around the credit card. But what I think it's fascinating about skip of pay and let's just talk some nerderific economics, if I may. That is that you've got. If you think of the ability of not having to make a payment for a month, if you think about that as a you know of a as being like a microlane, right, like, let's just say your aud alone is two d fifty or three hundred. That were like a micro autolone. Okay, now we think about microfinance. What does the benefit of having deferred payments help an organization? Well, there's actually a lot of work around that. There's a Harvard professor, or Hindi Pandey, and a Duke University professor, Erica Field, who are working on microfinance and they figured out that if you can allow borrowers a grace period of two months, it will double the rate of their new businesses. Wow, you know, and I think here's a such a practical opportunity for financial brands to put into play. And even like it's all about framing, maybe like a pandemic payment plan, like framing it like that based upon their their particular institution, right, or maybe it is you know, hey, let's get back to recovery more. Let's, you know, be really positive in the phrasing to and remind everybody around again, you know, the power for skip payment. You've also got mortgage refis. That's another tool. You've got the waving of late fees and then one of the things I love is you also have the huge financial counseling opportunities, right. You know,...

...sometimes your budget isn't as crazy as it has to be and your creans have incredible stories around continually helping the members. So it's a it's a really good opportunity to remind the and user. Hey, go back to your credent you and ask them. They're here to help. That's what their mission is and that's what they love to do and they can do it. Yeah, and I think that's you know, you and I were talking before we hit record. There is an article on CNBC this morning that the headline is banks nearly took down the economy in two thousand and eight. Now the industry hopes to redeem itself and I think for community financial brands this is the shining moment. There was an article that I read of I think it was either from a nurse or a doctor saying that this, this pandemic, this is their super bowl moment, this coronavirus health crisis. Well, over the next four to six, eight weeks and beyond, for community financial institutions, that will be our super bowl moment. This is why we do what we do, this is why we train for everything. And so when you're looking at like these practical, actionable steps and insights, I love it because it's about creating solutions to find the problems to solve, and every institution might be a little bit different, depending upon who their ideal market is, who they're currently serving, and it might even create some new opportunities for things that we haven't even really thought about right now. That's and the space I think we need to hold on too. We are forced to do innovation right now more than we have ever done innovation right now, right and what I love about innovation is we don't assary have to hire it per se. You can build it as a capability. Hmm, absolutely can build it. So if you're thinking about how do I make the member's life better, like you said, how do I use my tools in my toolbox differently? That's innovation and one of the coolest tools, I think that credens have and community banks have is to look at human center design. How do I start designing for the end user, which is going to be the member? How do I put that forward and what do I have to use in different ways? And there are many, many different tools that creations have. I mean just think about all of the virtual relationships that can be built and the conversations that they have. You think about her loan processing. Think about how you can automate, how you can look at the loan to income value and you can and you can find ways in there that, like I said, could be as simple as finding a hundred extra dollars. It's interesting that you bring up human center design. That's a big thing that we think about, that we teach here. I'm glad to hear that you're bringing this to the forefront of the conversation, because it's about putting people at the center of all of your thinking and doing versus putting, say, the product or the goal of the financial brand. Can you just briefly unpack, like how you're thinking is revolved around human center design a hundred percent. So at the end of the day, at the end of the day the human comes to a credit unit to get for very simple problem solved. The problems are I have a shelter problem, right. I either...

...need to buy home or get dome. I'm a transportation problem. I need a vehicle to get around and do things. I have a travel and play problem, right, because those are the things I want to do. I also have a rainy day and retirement problem. So that is why I'm going to my my create union, because I want them to solve that. So the credy needs to remember that. Those are the four areas that the members coming in. So how are they solving those? How are they delivering on those? Is there? Can the identify friction in that delivery method? And then, more partantly, how are they providing those solutions with the member centered absolutely in the middle? And I think like one of the elements that puts the member, puts the account holder, puts the consumer at the center of all that thinking. Is the Modern Day or the digital first consumer journey, because it's not. I have a problem, I you know, I'm going to click the apply button. There's a lot of emotion, there's a lot of reasoning and maybe even's more or less logic. Because that logic really comes after the emotion. What can financial brands do to be more emotive with their strategic planning and less logical? Because if you think about a financial brand and their leadership team, they're very smart people, they're very logical, they're left brain driven. That's great because we're dealing with people's money, but on the consumer side it's very motive. Money stressful o percent and money is exceptionally relationship driven, right. It's exceptionally relationship to everybody got an emotional relationship to their funds. I think the big thing to be thinking about is looking, I think, at a simple, very simple level, is thinking about what is that journey experience and let's just say in those four areas, what is the journey? How our members getting into that? And when you looking at and specifically if you can look at what is the friction that's in that journey right now and then figure out how the heck are you going to remove or lesson that friction, I think that is the very first step. I mean human center design is substantial. And let's also go back to sometimes what you know, in the work that I do, we do a lot of member centric data, strategy so we're looking at what are all those? What is that friction point and how can use data to leverage that and and make the members life better? And how? The way we like to define it is, how do you build revolutionary data, you know, because revolutionary member relationships? And when you're thinking about that and you're thinking, well, well, how am I going to be making sure that I'm aligning to strategical and how am I aligning to being, obviously, you know, the solving the the strategic problems of the of the credit UN operations, right, how are these alligned? Well, if you are going to solve the members problem, you are sure as hack along the way going to solve the creat union problem. So if you're continually staying out there and staying focus, there's a couple of dvantages that happen. Number One, when you are human center design, think about the beautiful communication that you have to everybody and all of the end users in the credit union. Right, you're talking at the strategic level. Gerals are now we can be able to talk to those who are member centric and they're able to communicate, hey, I understand the benefit of what I'm doing and...

I can now figure out how I can solve that. So it's really very holistic. It's like a yeah, like a three hundred and sixty degree perspective. And you mentioned those four problems. I like the way you frame them. It's a housing problem, it's a transportation problem, it's a lifestyle problem. And what was the last one? Is Rainy Day and retirement, rained in retirement. I'd actually probably, but I'd maybe a fifth element to that which is really, I see it, the the root of almost all of those problems. And it's a spending problem. It's behavioral problem, right, a lot of a lot of people right. Well, it's it is. You know, it's like anything else, and I always kind of lean into the athletic world because it's so beautifully data driven and you know, you don't just get up one day ago, I'm going to go run. I mean you can't, you absolutely can't. You can get off the couch, you can go run. It's going to hurt, everything's going to hurt. It's not. You may be successful, you may cross the finish line, but it's not the best way. What you do get to do is you get to stand up and go, okay, let me do my assessment. You know where am I do I have shoes to have a place I can walk. I'm going to have to start walking first, and this is my plan, to start walking to running, and then it's cumulative. Right. So over twenty weeks you can start building yourself up and you are building capabilities and strengths and what you're hoping to your point is that you're building up something that's repertable, right, that I'm going to be able to repeat it and that's something that that's going to be part of my DNA. And I think that's the same with innovation. I think that's the same with problem solving and I think that's also the same with how the member consumes and and how they can bring themselves into finding stability. Yeah, it's breaking it's taken the the the big problem, breaking it down into smaller, actionable steps, making progress every step of the way and using that progress as fuel to build up the confidence and momentum of whether it be an internal team member or whether it be a consumer. Facing you know, someone that you're trying to help get to a bigger, better and brighter future. Get them out of their funk, get them out of there the financial stress that's taken a toll in their health and there will being. You use the analogy of Sports, the the K and I've done a lot of running. I know you've done a lot of running, but you've done something very unique really within the past was a three, three to four or five months. Five months, yeah, and I you climb the world's tallest, largest free standing mountain and you learned a lot along the way that it's good to see you starting to transfer some of those those lessons, those insights, into financial brands. First and foremost BLIT's back up. Tell us a little bit about that experience and why would you want to do that in the first place? Those are great questions. So they really interesting story. Yes, I loving outside. I think it's wonderful. I love hiking, but it's kind I have been one of those bucket list things...

...where I said, you know, what we're talking about, of course, is climbing Mount Kilimandaro in Tanzania, Africa. It's Nineteen Thou three hundred and forty one feet, so that's very high. You know, when you think about it in terms of what the heck, it's something that you can you can hike because there's only one area the super technical. So it is very doable. You do not have to have ice picks and you don't have to be it's not ever, so let's just leave it at that. Okay, it is taller than ever space camp, but it's not ever. So it is in the realm of feasibility. Okay. So why does somebody who decides to say hey, I'm going to do this. Well, it just so happened that in my life I had a few things that happened that just just screamed that I need to do a climb out Kilim Daro. And the first one was I found myself in a fabulous new gift of time. I was working for commutual groups and advantage analytics and they decided to focus there. They made a business decision to focus their financial energies into product development and I was with them to develop, obviously cultivate prey unions for data consumption. And so they removed the consulting entity and I was given the gift of time. And at the time it didn't this I feel like the gift of time, but I was given the gift of time. I had time now to figure out what I want to do next and where I want to go. I also was given the gift of transition in the sense that I have a fabulous child who is graduating high school at the time and she was transitioning into college and that meant I was going to become an empty Nester and have this in credible freedom that I had an ad in eighteen years. So I was given all these really cool opportunities and it it just hit me that this was the time and that I had a hundred twenty days and I felt that was reasonable to go train, to go climat coma Jaro, and it was one of the world's coolest, rusily, brutally brutally amazing things I have ever done. Absolutely fabulous. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumer shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have to, because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growthcom to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. I'm gonna Pause you because I think that's really important. Number one is you had time. Yep, you created are you were given,...

...depending on your perspective, but you were given space and time. You had space and time to train for this endeavor. Right and if I'm going to like start thinking of how I view the world of digital growth for financial brands, so many financial brands are stuck on the hampst will of doing digital they have not stopped to create space and time to learn new insights, to think about how those insights applied to their unique situation, then apply them practically and then review. So you you're taking a very unique journey. That other thing. At the same time I was also, you know, starting up thrive, which was so wasn't as if I could just stop and take a sabbatical. What I did give myself a gift was I stopped and ask myself why. So let's talk about that. What's the what like? Like? What's like? What was the purpose? What were you what were you seeking? Oh my gosh, okay, so I was seeking transformation. I was. It is. It is a big deal when, and let's be honest, I musting a parent, when that little baby bird leaves and all of a sudden your whole world is upside down because you've been in this parenting mode for eighteen years and if you're doing it solo or however you're doing it, when you're not doing it anymore, wow, you need a transformation project. So it is. It is the advice that e Ray says. You need to have something to do. Well, most people go and like takeline dancing, and I decided I was going to climb, climb at her and the reason why was I put myself through kind of a criteria. I said, well, first let's go get medically checked up, like am I physically able to do this? And I was. I'm super lucky. I went in and I've I re entered the world of trathlon about five years ago and so that has helped the pun and so, yeah, went in and my doctor said you are an amazing shape, so keep doing keep going on. I found that I needed to do logistics and I was able to find it to word company that I liked. I figured out when I could get there, I figured out how I was going to get there and then I found a great training plan and I realized that, even though I live again, remember, life is filled a lot of obstacles. It's what you're going to do to get over those obstacles. Yeah, I realized that, Hey, the best thing for me to do is actually probably go climb. Go to Colorado and climb for, you know, ninety days straight. I didn't have that opportunity, but I took what I had and I got one of those awesome face masks and I won with the Stair stepper at my y and I've been all sorts of new friends looking a lot like the character from Baine, from from Batman. But I ended up climbing. I think I figured out it was. I climbed the Twin Towers Twenty six times. That's I did. I was able, very amazingly, to be able to go climb out Waitney, which is here local, which is a fourteenzero five peak. And here's the coolest thing about that. Twenty years ago, before I knew I was gonna Start Family, I climb out Whitney and took me two days and that was...

...my twenty years ago self. This time I did it and I did it from sea level to the act salute top and I did it in one day, in seventeen hours. So actually in better shape than I was twenty years ago. So it's actually a couple thoughts. Number One, you talked about the obstacles that stand in the way, and I see this with financial brands. You know, if digital growth was easy, everyone would be doing it and succeeding with it. Number One. Number two in this is kind of like what I'm picking up with your own personal story, in your own personal journey. The biggest breakthroughs that we experience in life, whether that be an individual, whether it be a team, whether that be an organization, the breakthroughs always, always follow a breakdown a hundred percent. I'd like to frame that a little bit in serving back to we talked about, and that is your fear. Right, we all have fear. We all have fear. We fear we can't do this because of this and because of that right. And when you think about fear, and the way I like to think about fear is fear is really finding the evidence about my reality and when you break it down into those smaller pieces and you break it down to the evidence you had, and, like I just said, that's exactly what I did. So, if I'm going to climb Clement are oh well, okay. First of all, can I get there? Yes. Do I money? Yes. Do I have the time? Yes. Okay, well, big thing. That's probably take me down as do I not have the physical attributes? Well, let's go find out the evidence. The evidence is here's the doctor says go. There's a train plan to go and at any point in the time, you know, you know, you may have to wave off. That's fine, that's fine. The whole world stilled a pivots. But the coolest part, and you know, and and Kilmon Jar. It was pretty arduous. I'm not kidding you. I thought there was a minimum of three times I wasn't going to finish and I had never done an eight Dan Durance event before. So you know, the the thing of to think about is what is going to be my mindset in this, which is very what we need today. What is my mindset? Of My mind we are going to be okay and we're going to figure out where the, you know, silver linings are and we're going to figure out how this can be and become the best. You mentioned something else. When you're unpacking your story. Number One, you talked about climbing Mount Whitney twenty years ago and it took you two days. You climbed it recently and it took you a day. And was it seven team hours? Some seventeen hours? You were able to measure the progress that you've made along your own personal journey by looking behind you and seeing the distance that literally you've made, and that's one of the big lessons for financial brands. When you think about digital growth, when you think about data, when you think about this idea of transformation, measure the progress you're making by looking behind you at where you've come. Never look ahead at what is still ahead for you to do, because that is doom, that is death, that it is overwhelmed. I'd like to kind of counter that and what...

I'd like to say in the middle ground of that is what you should do is to should build confidence on your history. Oh, you're ut, it's sick. Your history gives you the fuel for your future. Right. But what I think is really important, what I see is a huge opportunity for great unions, is building your your road map and understanding that the road map isn't going to be a project plan that is going to have an end goal and what you're shooting for and and it should be high level and you should be communicating your successes on that road map percent as you're saying. You know, for example, transformation will maybe the first part is we're going to do an assessment on our current condition. Well then, great, talk about that and talk about your findings. Make sure that one of the biggest things you do is you're moving forward. Is You were communicating and celebrating the successes? Yes, that is where you're continually to build a confidence you had before, and it also allows you to see the litmus of what you're doing. Right, I had a training plan and I'm checking things off the box and as I'm doing that, I'm realizing, Oh, okay, look how far I've gotten and look how much I've look how much I have. None. I mean, I didn't realize I was going to climb, you know, the Twin Towers Twenty six time. But it was fascinating to keep looking at every time I got on, you know, and I was spending, let's be honest, our two hours on a treadmail on those client stubb and it was great. I read a lot of books, I got a lot of information done, I even had a meetings. Those weren't necessarily successful, but yeah, to your point, confidence like that is the fuel for future growth and that's the most important thing a leader can protect is their confidence. When that confidence starts to like, you don't lose confidence over time, but it's like chipped away, you know, slowly, but confidence can be built. And one of the exercises that I recommend, and this is practical knowledge every day or every quarter, what's worked well, what's working well and what am I excited about over the next ninety days, because I know that you look at the world through a ninety ninety day view to correct. Yeah, so, and I think there's, you know, there's a lot of the way I like to look at it is, you know, what do we want to stop and what do we want to start? Huh, what do we want to continue? That's how I like to look at it. What do you want to stop? What do we want to start? What do we want to continue? Because what I see a lot of times when it comes to digital and it's that it's that that diagnostic of we see financial brands doing digital, they're adding more to their plate without stopping and that's creating the sense of overwhelm. So what do we want to stop, what do you want to start and what do we want to continue? Correct and I think you know, that's really the guys that give a lot of our unions as are thinking about this, because the other point is what's their why? Right? Because if you, if you have a very clear, precise lens and your wine, and when I'm working with data, I always go back to what is...

...the member story? Right? How are we going to build out that member use case? Because we talked a little bit about the technology process. Here you are putting your data together to solve a member problem. What is it? What does that member look like? What is that use case? What's that member story that you're shooting for? And that's your guiding true north, because as you're going through this, you're going to find a whole bunch of flashy, beautiful Chinese China objects along the way, and don't get distracted by those. You know, there's there's a many different ways you can be doing this. But if you know, hey, we are wanting to do this and this is how we're going to be measuring this metric, and maybe we have to modify that as we go along because it isn't exactly as we thought a hundred percent, but we want to make sure, just like you know, climbing the mountain, I know I'm want to go to summit, and the other thing about climbing the mountain's crazy, as it's not necessarily the stummit, it's that I'm going to go to the stummit. Have to come down, yes, all right, and then at the end of that I might do this whole process again. And how do I understand from the journey? What am I takeaways? Right? So, as an organization is thinking about data transformation, they really need to be thinking about a couple things. You know, what is it that? What's those problems I'm trying to solve? And from that, how, by turning this into workflow adoption really and I'm building up capabilities and continuous capabilities. Yeah, so, and know we talk a lot about I talk a lot about the data, but we also have to talk about, you know, the culture. It is really important, and I mean you can take somebody who says, yes, I want to do you know, a k all they want, but if they're not actually wanting to change, it doesn't matter if you put the shoes on them and take them off. They have got to do that. So you've got to get a culture change and modification and that is very not easy and that doesn't happen overnight. One of the big things, I mean, you're so spot on with the thinking of culture. I've been talking and thinking and speaking and writing a lot around building a culture of coaching. Yes, yes, and that and that, and that creates value two ways. It creates value internally because I can help coach and guide my team members across the organization, because when you look at like digital growth, it's not one department, it's it's across the entire organization, top to bottom, bottom to top. But that point of coaching can then be transferred externally and that to me, that's the secret weapon of financial brands, particularly now, more than ever before, with all of this confusion and chaos and crisis and conflict that we're going to see in the in the coming months, because coaching is very different than just servicing, right, different than leadership. Yes, and and if I can add to that, what I'd like to I had a magic wand, I'd love to say what I'd like to infuse is the innovation component. And when you're building that culture you've got to have the you've got to have the parameters and a framework to be able to say, you know what we need, you think differently, and when we do that we're going to fail. And it's...

...okay, right, yeah, got to have that. Got To have that ability. We've also got to be able to do it in ways that you're comfortable with, and that is what I'm going to rite all the way. That does why I love Human Center design, because I'm building out a capability of how to put the members I first, yeah, and then when you add on a sprint and agile component to it, and then I can actually so let's just walk through it. So I figure out there's a members problem, I figure out what I need to do about it, I bring storm my prototype, I bring all this stuff forward, you know, then it's time for me to bring it to market and I do it fast and I fail fast and then I just keep adjusting. That is a beautiful capability and that is going to serve the industry so well, because it's your point. You know, if I'm coached on that and this becomes part of my culture, then it is okay for me to constantly be thinking really innovatively at how I'm going to solve the members problem. And that's where the magic sauce is happening, because you've got data, you've got technology, let's bring it all together and let's have a format that talks about in a process, and that's exactly what you know, thrive does. We have this whole offering and I mean to pitch, but I just got a define. It's called how do you create a data consumptive culture? And we don't teach so much about it's the data, it's how are you solving the members problem with human centered design? How are you gonna be able to exciting execute on it with agile and how are you going to bring data to make sure that you understand that that is the source of how you're going to solve these problems. Yeah, I'm a frame this up here because I think it's such a you've you've shared so much today. You've got such a great story personally. That is so applicable to any financial brand. Marketing team, cells team, leadership team, data team. Start with the end in mind. Yes, what what's keeping people up at night? Empathy? Plan quickly. Three Year road maps, God forbid five yeared road maps. I mean like like we have to bring the horizon line in. My recommendation when work with the financial brand is let's just use a twelve, maybe eighteen month horizon, but a eighteen months is getting a little foggy. Plan quickly. Apply. Don't does that have to be perfect, but we just need to get this out, whatever this might be, progress, not perfection, and then review what's worked and to go back to to the previous points you've made. Will Continue doing that. What didn't work, will stop doing that and through this review and optimization process we can then determine what we can do even better and start doing that. Okay, so you kind of find exactly what we do here at the time. That's that's our business framework. So thanks for putting into to Nice concised. Well,...

...no, it's I mean seriously, it's so it's so logical and and seriously, it has been such a wonderful conversation with you today. I appreciate everything that you shared. As we wrap up, we're looking ahead over the course of the year. Huh, the environment is in a state of flux. What is one practical action or recommendation that you can make for financial brand marketing cells and leadership teams so that, and this is the key, and we've talked about this, so that they can move forward with confidence to continue to make progress along their digital growth journey. Okay, I've about five, but I'm going to try to consolidate to one. One. Please focus on your why, because that's your endpoint. That's your mission, Mr driver, and if your why isn't crystal clear, you need to make that crystal because that's going to be your lightning rod to be able to execute. Put purpose before profits, because profits will ultimately follow your purpose. Yep, awesome. Hey, if anyone's listening, they want to connect with you, they have additional questions, they want to say hello. What's the best way for them to do that? Please reach out just send me an email. So I'm you'll find me at an at and leg thrive and then is an and e l egg for I'vecom. But please, if you're looking for a lot of knowledge, and knowledge is absolute power right now, please visit and like drivecom. We've got an incredible blog series going on. We've got all sorts of date education pieces going on and really just look through that and if there's something that you say, Hey, I'd love to know. You can definitely reach me there from the website. Will get that leaked up in the show notes and you're doing important and very meaningful work. I appreciate that first and foremost as a no others listening to as well. Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an APPs of pleasure. Until next time, be well and do good. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast, Google podcast or spotify and subscribe while you're there. To get even more practical, improven insights, visit www dot digital growthcom to grab a preview of James Roberts best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Until next time, be well and do good.

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