Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

23) #ExponentialInsights: Why Chaotic Times Call for Human-Centered Design w/ Anne Legg

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s hard to ignore the fact that we’re sliding into a recession.

And your financial brand’s members will be impacted. 

How can you help in the midst of unprecedented times? 

In today’s episode, Anne Legg, Founder at THRIVE Strategic Services, shares the top actions financial brands can take to navigate these turbulent times. 

We discuss:

-Innovation in a crisis

-The 4 problems you need to solve for customers

-Human-Centered Design

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

The human comes to a credit units. Yet for very simple problem solved. The problems are. I have ashelter problem right. I either need to buy home or get dome. Ihave a transportation problem. I need a vehicle to get around and do things. I have a travel and play problem right, because those are the thingsI want to do. I also have a rainy day and retirement problem.You are listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcastthat empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growthpotential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part ofthe exponential insight series, where James Robert Interviews the industry's top marketing, salesand FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team.Let's get into the show. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Layand welcome to another episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episodeis part of the exponential insight series and I am so excited to welcome andleg to the show because she has some really good insights to share based onthe data work that she's been doing as the founder of thrive strategic services.So to begin the conversation. And what is one thing that you are workingon right now in the midst of all of this coronavirus chaos? Oh Gosh. Well, first all, hey, how are you so much? Justa quick you know, I got to say this is awesome. I thinkthat the one thing that I'm working on right now is how to get creditunions, number one, remind themselves of they're awesome because, while this isunprecedented times, but not wholly unfamiliar. So I'm working on some digital learningsaround how do we remind ourselves of what we can do to make the memberslife better and also, more importantly, one of the things that's interesting rightnow is we've got to be really innovative. How do we bring innovation to solvesome of these problems? And that's part of what thrive does. Soworking on building on some basically online educational series and tools that will help creditunions think about how they can do what they do differently and help improve thelives of the member. You know, I really like your focus around education, because what we're seeing in the media and just in general is the mostbasic human fear and that's fear of the unknown. Yes, and when youtake an approach rooted around education, you could begin to provide some clarity andinsight into the opportunities that people might not even be thinking about right now.So I know that you know you wrote a really good article about three actionsthat financial brands can take to help their account holders navigate these challenging, chaotictimes, and could you just maybe dive...

...into some of those actions? Thevery first one you mentioned was identify potentially impacted account holders. Right, right. So let's just talk about I mean, and actually it's kind of funny,in the last twenty four hours, you know, things have of coursechanged. You know, we are, however you'd like to phrase it,in siding into recession. So that means that there's going to be layoffs,we're going to see financial impacts. That means you're members will be impacted.So there will be members who members and consumers who will have their financial conditionchange, and we know that specifically in the United States, there's a lotof people who don't even have four hundred dollars in their stavments account. So, as a credit union, what are your tools to do that in thefirst thing is to think about identifying who are those impacted audiences. And again, let me kind of start back a little bit by saying, you know, as I said at the beginning, these are unprecedented times, but they'renot wholly unfamiliar. And let me just put some data in there. Soyou think about the last ten years and think about all the national disasters thatare happening in this world right we've got hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes. Pretty units have always been there to determine how am I going to comein and step up and how am I going to make the members life better? Right, so your understanding, you are to have a framework of whatto do. Already know you need to segment those who are going to bemost impacted. Of those most impacted, what can you do? And Really, what's so neat about pretty in specifically is that they've got a couple reallycool tools right off the bat, and the number one is that gorgeous skipa pay and skippa payments are an interesting little nugget. There's something that's Crean'shave. They've got tons of they've been using it and specifically around the autoloone and around the credit card. But what I think it's fascinating about skipof pay and let's just talk some nerderific economics, if I may. Thatis that you've got. If you think of the ability of not having tomake a payment for a month, if you think about that as a youknow of a as being like a microlane, right, like, let's just sayyour aud alone is two d fifty or three hundred. That were likea micro autolone. Okay, now we think about microfinance. What does thebenefit of having deferred payments help an organization? Well, there's actually a lot ofwork around that. There's a Harvard professor, or Hindi Pandey, anda Duke University professor, Erica Field, who are working on microfinance and theyfigured out that if you can allow borrowers a grace period of two months,it will double the rate of their new businesses. Wow, you know,and I think here's a such a practical opportunity for financial brands to put intoplay. And even like it's all about framing, maybe like a pandemic paymentplan, like framing it like that based upon their their particular institution, right, or maybe it is you know, hey, let's get back to recoverymore. Let's, you know, be really positive in the phrasing to andremind everybody around again, you know, the power for skip payment. You'vealso got mortgage refis. That's another tool. You've got the waving of late feesand then one of the things I love is you also have the hugefinancial counseling opportunities, right. You know,...

...sometimes your budget isn't as crazy asit has to be and your creans have incredible stories around continually helping themembers. So it's a it's a really good opportunity to remind the and user. Hey, go back to your credent you and ask them. They're hereto help. That's what their mission is and that's what they love to doand they can do it. Yeah, and I think that's you know,you and I were talking before we hit record. There is an article onCNBC this morning that the headline is banks nearly took down the economy in twothousand and eight. Now the industry hopes to redeem itself and I think forcommunity financial brands this is the shining moment. There was an article that I readof I think it was either from a nurse or a doctor saying thatthis, this pandemic, this is their super bowl moment, this coronavirus healthcrisis. Well, over the next four to six, eight weeks and beyond, for community financial institutions, that will be our super bowl moment. Thisis why we do what we do, this is why we train for everything. And so when you're looking at like these practical, actionable steps and insights, I love it because it's about creating solutions to find the problems to solve, and every institution might be a little bit different, depending upon who theirideal market is, who they're currently serving, and it might even create some newopportunities for things that we haven't even really thought about right now. That'sand the space I think we need to hold on too. We are forcedto do innovation right now more than we have ever done innovation right now,right and what I love about innovation is we don't assary have to hire itper se. You can build it as a capability. Hmm, absolutely canbuild it. So if you're thinking about how do I make the member's lifebetter, like you said, how do I use my tools in my toolboxdifferently? That's innovation and one of the coolest tools, I think that credenshave and community banks have is to look at human center design. How doI start designing for the end user, which is going to be the member? How do I put that forward and what do I have to use indifferent ways? And there are many, many different tools that creations have.I mean just think about all of the virtual relationships that can be built andthe conversations that they have. You think about her loan processing. Think abouthow you can automate, how you can look at the loan to income valueand you can and you can find ways in there that, like I said, could be as simple as finding a hundred extra dollars. It's interesting thatyou bring up human center design. That's a big thing that we think about, that we teach here. I'm glad to hear that you're bringing this tothe forefront of the conversation, because it's about putting people at the center ofall of your thinking and doing versus putting, say, the product or the goalof the financial brand. Can you just briefly unpack, like how you'rethinking is revolved around human center design a hundred percent. So at the endof the day, at the end of the day the human comes to acredit unit to get for very simple problem solved. The problems are I havea shelter problem, right. I either...

...need to buy home or get dome. I'm a transportation problem. I need a vehicle to get around and dothings. I have a travel and play problem, right, because those arethe things I want to do. I also have a rainy day and retirementproblem. So that is why I'm going to my my create union, becauseI want them to solve that. So the credy needs to remember that.Those are the four areas that the members coming in. So how are theysolving those? How are they delivering on those? Is there? Can theidentify friction in that delivery method? And then, more partantly, how arethey providing those solutions with the member centered absolutely in the middle? And Ithink like one of the elements that puts the member, puts the account holder, puts the consumer at the center of all that thinking. Is the ModernDay or the digital first consumer journey, because it's not. I have aproblem, I you know, I'm going to click the apply button. There'sa lot of emotion, there's a lot of reasoning and maybe even's more orless logic. Because that logic really comes after the emotion. What can financialbrands do to be more emotive with their strategic planning and less logical? Becauseif you think about a financial brand and their leadership team, they're very smartpeople, they're very logical, they're left brain driven. That's great because we'redealing with people's money, but on the consumer side it's very motive. Moneystressful o percent and money is exceptionally relationship driven, right. It's exceptionally relationshipto everybody got an emotional relationship to their funds. I think the big thingto be thinking about is looking, I think, at a simple, verysimple level, is thinking about what is that journey experience and let's just sayin those four areas, what is the journey? How our members getting intothat? And when you looking at and specifically if you can look at whatis the friction that's in that journey right now and then figure out how theheck are you going to remove or lesson that friction, I think that isthe very first step. I mean human center design is substantial. And let'salso go back to sometimes what you know, in the work that I do,we do a lot of member centric data, strategy so we're looking atwhat are all those? What is that friction point and how can use datato leverage that and and make the members life better? And how? Theway we like to define it is, how do you build revolutionary data,you know, because revolutionary member relationships? And when you're thinking about that andyou're thinking, well, well, how am I going to be making surethat I'm aligning to strategical and how am I aligning to being, obviously,you know, the solving the the strategic problems of the of the credit UNoperations, right, how are these alligned? Well, if you are going tosolve the members problem, you are sure as hack along the way goingto solve the creat union problem. So if you're continually staying out there andstaying focus, there's a couple of dvantages that happen. Number One, whenyou are human center design, think about the beautiful communication that you have toeverybody and all of the end users in the credit union. Right, you'retalking at the strategic level. Gerals are now we can be able to talkto those who are member centric and they're able to communicate, hey, Iunderstand the benefit of what I'm doing and...

I can now figure out how Ican solve that. So it's really very holistic. It's like a yeah,like a three hundred and sixty degree perspective. And you mentioned those four problems.I like the way you frame them. It's a housing problem, it's atransportation problem, it's a lifestyle problem. And what was the last one?Is Rainy Day and retirement, rained in retirement. I'd actually probably,but I'd maybe a fifth element to that which is really, I see it, the the root of almost all of those problems. And it's a spendingproblem. It's behavioral problem, right, a lot of a lot of peopleright. Well, it's it is. You know, it's like anything else, and I always kind of lean into the athletic world because it's so beautifullydata driven and you know, you don't just get up one day ago,I'm going to go run. I mean you can't, you absolutely can't.You can get off the couch, you can go run. It's going tohurt, everything's going to hurt. It's not. You may be successful,you may cross the finish line, but it's not the best way. Whatyou do get to do is you get to stand up and go, okay, let me do my assessment. You know where am I do I haveshoes to have a place I can walk. I'm going to have to start walkingfirst, and this is my plan, to start walking to running, andthen it's cumulative. Right. So over twenty weeks you can start buildingyourself up and you are building capabilities and strengths and what you're hoping to yourpoint is that you're building up something that's repertable, right, that I'm goingto be able to repeat it and that's something that that's going to be partof my DNA. And I think that's the same with innovation. I thinkthat's the same with problem solving and I think that's also the same with howthe member consumes and and how they can bring themselves into finding stability. Yeah, it's breaking it's taken the the the big problem, breaking it down intosmaller, actionable steps, making progress every step of the way and using thatprogress as fuel to build up the confidence and momentum of whether it be aninternal team member or whether it be a consumer. Facing you know, someonethat you're trying to help get to a bigger, better and brighter future.Get them out of their funk, get them out of there the financial stressthat's taken a toll in their health and there will being. You use theanalogy of Sports, the the K and I've done a lot of running.I know you've done a lot of running, but you've done something very unique reallywithin the past was a three, three to four or five months.Five months, yeah, and I you climb the world's tallest, largest freestanding mountain and you learned a lot along the way that it's good to seeyou starting to transfer some of those those lessons, those insights, into financialbrands. First and foremost BLIT's back up. Tell us a little bit about thatexperience and why would you want to do that in the first place?Those are great questions. So they really interesting story. Yes, I lovingoutside. I think it's wonderful. I love hiking, but it's kind Ihave been one of those bucket list things...

...where I said, you know,what we're talking about, of course, is climbing Mount Kilimandaro in Tanzania,Africa. It's Nineteen Thou three hundred and forty one feet, so that's veryhigh. You know, when you think about it in terms of what theheck, it's something that you can you can hike because there's only one areathe super technical. So it is very doable. You do not have tohave ice picks and you don't have to be it's not ever, so let'sjust leave it at that. Okay, it is taller than ever space camp, but it's not ever. So it is in the realm of feasibility.Okay. So why does somebody who decides to say hey, I'm going todo this. Well, it just so happened that in my life I hada few things that happened that just just screamed that I need to do aclimb out Kilim Daro. And the first one was I found myself in afabulous new gift of time. I was working for commutual groups and advantage analyticsand they decided to focus there. They made a business decision to focus theirfinancial energies into product development and I was with them to develop, obviously cultivateprey unions for data consumption. And so they removed the consulting entity and Iwas given the gift of time. And at the time it didn't this Ifeel like the gift of time, but I was given the gift of time. I had time now to figure out what I want to do next andwhere I want to go. I also was given the gift of transition inthe sense that I have a fabulous child who is graduating high school at thetime and she was transitioning into college and that meant I was going to becomean empty Nester and have this in credible freedom that I had an ad ineighteen years. So I was given all these really cool opportunities and it itjust hit me that this was the time and that I had a hundred twentydays and I felt that was reasonable to go train, to go climat comaJaro, and it was one of the world's coolest, rusily, brutally brutallyamazing things I have ever done. Absolutely fabulous. Technology has transformed our worldand digital has changed the way consumer shop for and buy financial services forever.Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if theywalk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to growloans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustratingand overwhelming for any financial brand marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't haveto, because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of theway along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growthcom to get apreview of his best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copyright now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategicmarketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed fullof practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate ten timesmore loans and deposits. Now back to the show. I'm gonna Pause youbecause I think that's really important. Number one is you had time. Yep, you created are you were given,...

...depending on your perspective, but youwere given space and time. You had space and time to train for thisendeavor. Right and if I'm going to like start thinking of how I viewthe world of digital growth for financial brands, so many financial brands are stuck onthe hampst will of doing digital they have not stopped to create space andtime to learn new insights, to think about how those insights applied to theirunique situation, then apply them practically and then review. So you you're takinga very unique journey. That other thing. At the same time I was also, you know, starting up thrive, which was so wasn't as if Icould just stop and take a sabbatical. What I did give myself a giftwas I stopped and ask myself why. So let's talk about that. What'sthe what like? Like? What's like? What was the purpose?What were you what were you seeking? Oh my gosh, okay, soI was seeking transformation. I was. It is. It is a bigdeal when, and let's be honest, I musting a parent, when thatlittle baby bird leaves and all of a sudden your whole world is upside downbecause you've been in this parenting mode for eighteen years and if you're doing itsolo or however you're doing it, when you're not doing it anymore, wow, you need a transformation project. So it is. It is the advicethat e Ray says. You need to have something to do. Well,most people go and like takeline dancing, and I decided I was going toclimb, climb at her and the reason why was I put myself through kindof a criteria. I said, well, first let's go get medically checked up, like am I physically able to do this? And I was.I'm super lucky. I went in and I've I re entered the world oftrathlon about five years ago and so that has helped the pun and so,yeah, went in and my doctor said you are an amazing shape, sokeep doing keep going on. I found that I needed to do logistics andI was able to find it to word company that I liked. I figuredout when I could get there, I figured out how I was going toget there and then I found a great training plan and I realized that,even though I live again, remember, life is filled a lot of obstacles. It's what you're going to do to get over those obstacles. Yeah,I realized that, Hey, the best thing for me to do is actuallyprobably go climb. Go to Colorado and climb for, you know, ninetydays straight. I didn't have that opportunity, but I took what I had andI got one of those awesome face masks and I won with the Stairstepper at my y and I've been all sorts of new friends looking a lotlike the character from Baine, from from Batman. But I ended up climbing. I think I figured out it was. I climbed the Twin Towers Twenty sixtimes. That's I did. I was able, very amazingly, tobe able to go climb out Waitney, which is here local, which isa fourteenzero five peak. And here's the coolest thing about that. Twenty yearsago, before I knew I was gonna Start Family, I climb out Whitneyand took me two days and that was...

...my twenty years ago self. Thistime I did it and I did it from sea level to the act salutetop and I did it in one day, in seventeen hours. So actually inbetter shape than I was twenty years ago. So it's actually a couplethoughts. Number One, you talked about the obstacles that stand in the way, and I see this with financial brands. You know, if digital growth waseasy, everyone would be doing it and succeeding with it. Number One. Number two in this is kind of like what I'm picking up with yourown personal story, in your own personal journey. The biggest breakthroughs that weexperience in life, whether that be an individual, whether it be a team, whether that be an organization, the breakthroughs always, always follow a breakdowna hundred percent. I'd like to frame that a little bit in serving backto we talked about, and that is your fear. Right, we allhave fear. We all have fear. We fear we can't do this becauseof this and because of that right. And when you think about fear,and the way I like to think about fear is fear is really finding theevidence about my reality and when you break it down into those smaller pieces andyou break it down to the evidence you had, and, like I justsaid, that's exactly what I did. So, if I'm going to climbClement are oh well, okay. First of all, can I get there? Yes. Do I money? Yes. Do I have the time? Yes. Okay, well, big thing. That's probably take me down as doI not have the physical attributes? Well, let's go find out theevidence. The evidence is here's the doctor says go. There's a train planto go and at any point in the time, you know, you know, you may have to wave off. That's fine, that's fine. Thewhole world stilled a pivots. But the coolest part, and you know,and and Kilmon Jar. It was pretty arduous. I'm not kidding you.I thought there was a minimum of three times I wasn't going to finish andI had never done an eight Dan Durance event before. So you know,the the thing of to think about is what is going to be my mindsetin this, which is very what we need today. What is my mindset? Of My mind we are going to be okay and we're going to figureout where the, you know, silver linings are and we're going to figureout how this can be and become the best. You mentioned something else.When you're unpacking your story. Number One, you talked about climbing Mount Whitney twentyyears ago and it took you two days. You climbed it recently andit took you a day. And was it seven team hours? Some seventeenhours? You were able to measure the progress that you've made along your ownpersonal journey by looking behind you and seeing the distance that literally you've made,and that's one of the big lessons for financial brands. When you think aboutdigital growth, when you think about data, when you think about this idea oftransformation, measure the progress you're making by looking behind you at where you'vecome. Never look ahead at what is still ahead for you to do,because that is doom, that is death, that it is overwhelmed. I'd liketo kind of counter that and what...

I'd like to say in the middleground of that is what you should do is to should build confidence on yourhistory. Oh, you're ut, it's sick. Your history gives you thefuel for your future. Right. But what I think is really important,what I see is a huge opportunity for great unions, is building your yourroad map and understanding that the road map isn't going to be a project planthat is going to have an end goal and what you're shooting for and andit should be high level and you should be communicating your successes on that roadmap percent as you're saying. You know, for example, transformation will maybe thefirst part is we're going to do an assessment on our current condition.Well then, great, talk about that and talk about your findings. Makesure that one of the biggest things you do is you're moving forward. IsYou were communicating and celebrating the successes? Yes, that is where you're continuallyto build a confidence you had before, and it also allows you to seethe litmus of what you're doing. Right, I had a training plan and I'mchecking things off the box and as I'm doing that, I'm realizing,Oh, okay, look how far I've gotten and look how much I've lookhow much I have. None. I mean, I didn't realize I wasgoing to climb, you know, the Twin Towers Twenty six time. Butit was fascinating to keep looking at every time I got on, you know, and I was spending, let's be honest, our two hours on atreadmail on those client stubb and it was great. I read a lot ofbooks, I got a lot of information done, I even had a meetings. Those weren't necessarily successful, but yeah, to your point, confidence like thatis the fuel for future growth and that's the most important thing a leadercan protect is their confidence. When that confidence starts to like, you don'tlose confidence over time, but it's like chipped away, you know, slowly, but confidence can be built. And one of the exercises that I recommend, and this is practical knowledge every day or every quarter, what's worked well, what's working well and what am I excited about over the next ninety days, because I know that you look at the world through a ninety ninety dayview to correct. Yeah, so, and I think there's, you know, there's a lot of the way I like to look at it is,you know, what do we want to stop and what do we want tostart? Huh, what do we want to continue? That's how I liketo look at it. What do you want to stop? What do wewant to start? What do we want to continue? Because what I seea lot of times when it comes to digital and it's that it's that thatdiagnostic of we see financial brands doing digital, they're adding more to their plate withoutstopping and that's creating the sense of overwhelm. So what do we wantto stop, what do you want to start and what do we want tocontinue? Correct and I think you know, that's really the guys that give alot of our unions as are thinking about this, because the other pointis what's their why? Right? Because if you, if you have avery clear, precise lens and your wine, and when I'm working with data,I always go back to what is...

...the member story? Right? Howare we going to build out that member use case? Because we talked alittle bit about the technology process. Here you are putting your data together tosolve a member problem. What is it? What does that member look like?What is that use case? What's that member story that you're shooting for? And that's your guiding true north, because as you're going through this,you're going to find a whole bunch of flashy, beautiful Chinese China objects alongthe way, and don't get distracted by those. You know, there's there'sa many different ways you can be doing this. But if you know,hey, we are wanting to do this and this is how we're going tobe measuring this metric, and maybe we have to modify that as we goalong because it isn't exactly as we thought a hundred percent, but we wantto make sure, just like you know, climbing the mountain, I know I'mwant to go to summit, and the other thing about climbing the mountain'scrazy, as it's not necessarily the stummit, it's that I'm going to go tothe stummit. Have to come down, yes, all right, and thenat the end of that I might do this whole process again. Andhow do I understand from the journey? What am I takeaways? Right?So, as an organization is thinking about data transformation, they really need tobe thinking about a couple things. You know, what is it that?What's those problems I'm trying to solve? And from that, how, byturning this into workflow adoption really and I'm building up capabilities and continuous capabilities.Yeah, so, and know we talk a lot about I talk a lotabout the data, but we also have to talk about, you know,the culture. It is really important, and I mean you can take somebodywho says, yes, I want to do you know, a k allthey want, but if they're not actually wanting to change, it doesn't matterif you put the shoes on them and take them off. They have gotto do that. So you've got to get a culture change and modification andthat is very not easy and that doesn't happen overnight. One of the bigthings, I mean, you're so spot on with the thinking of culture.I've been talking and thinking and speaking and writing a lot around building a cultureof coaching. Yes, yes, and that and that, and that createsvalue two ways. It creates value internally because I can help coach and guidemy team members across the organization, because when you look at like digital growth, it's not one department, it's it's across the entire organization, top tobottom, bottom to top. But that point of coaching can then be transferredexternally and that to me, that's the secret weapon of financial brands, particularlynow, more than ever before, with all of this confusion and chaos andcrisis and conflict that we're going to see in the in the coming months,because coaching is very different than just servicing, right, different than leadership. Yes, and and if I can add to that, what I'd like toI had a magic wand, I'd love to say what I'd like to infuseis the innovation component. And when you're building that culture you've got to havethe you've got to have the parameters and a framework to be able to say, you know what we need, you think differently, and when we dothat we're going to fail. And it's...

...okay, right, yeah, gotto have that. Got To have that ability. We've also got to beable to do it in ways that you're comfortable with, and that is whatI'm going to rite all the way. That does why I love Human Centerdesign, because I'm building out a capability of how to put the members Ifirst, yeah, and then when you add on a sprint and agile componentto it, and then I can actually so let's just walk through it.So I figure out there's a members problem, I figure out what I need todo about it, I bring storm my prototype, I bring all thisstuff forward, you know, then it's time for me to bring it tomarket and I do it fast and I fail fast and then I just keepadjusting. That is a beautiful capability and that is going to serve the industryso well, because it's your point. You know, if I'm coached onthat and this becomes part of my culture, then it is okay for me toconstantly be thinking really innovatively at how I'm going to solve the members problem. And that's where the magic sauce is happening, because you've got data,you've got technology, let's bring it all together and let's have a format thattalks about in a process, and that's exactly what you know, thrive does. We have this whole offering and I mean to pitch, but I justgot a define. It's called how do you create a data consumptive culture?And we don't teach so much about it's the data, it's how are yousolving the members problem with human centered design? How are you gonna be able toexciting execute on it with agile and how are you going to bring datato make sure that you understand that that is the source of how you're goingto solve these problems. Yeah, I'm a frame this up here because Ithink it's such a you've you've shared so much today. You've got such agreat story personally. That is so applicable to any financial brand. Marketing team, cells team, leadership team, data team. Start with the end inmind. Yes, what what's keeping people up at night? Empathy? Planquickly. Three Year road maps, God forbid five yeared road maps. Imean like like we have to bring the horizon line in. My recommendation whenwork with the financial brand is let's just use a twelve, maybe eighteen monthhorizon, but a eighteen months is getting a little foggy. Plan quickly.Apply. Don't does that have to be perfect, but we just need toget this out, whatever this might be, progress, not perfection, and thenreview what's worked and to go back to to the previous points you've made. Will Continue doing that. What didn't work, will stop doing that andthrough this review and optimization process we can then determine what we can do evenbetter and start doing that. Okay, so you kind of find exactly whatwe do here at the time. That's that's our business framework. So thanksfor putting into to Nice concised. Well,...

...no, it's I mean seriously,it's so it's so logical and and seriously, it has been such awonderful conversation with you today. I appreciate everything that you shared. As wewrap up, we're looking ahead over the course of the year. Huh,the environment is in a state of flux. What is one practical action or recommendationthat you can make for financial brand marketing cells and leadership teams so that, and this is the key, and we've talked about this, so thatthey can move forward with confidence to continue to make progress along their digital growthjourney. Okay, I've about five, but I'm going to try to consolidateto one. One. Please focus on your why, because that's your endpoint. That's your mission, Mr driver, and if your why isn't crystal clear, you need to make that crystal because that's going to be your lightning rodto be able to execute. Put purpose before profits, because profits will ultimatelyfollow your purpose. Yep, awesome. Hey, if anyone's listening, theywant to connect with you, they have additional questions, they want to sayhello. What's the best way for them to do that? Please reach outjust send me an email. So I'm you'll find me at an at andleg thrive and then is an and e l egg for I'vecom. But please, if you're looking for a lot of knowledge, and knowledge is absolute powerright now, please visit and like drivecom. We've got an incredible blog series goingon. We've got all sorts of date education pieces going on and reallyjust look through that and if there's something that you say, Hey, I'dlove to know. You can definitely reach me there from the website. Willget that leaked up in the show notes and you're doing important and very meaningfulwork. I appreciate that first and foremost as a no others listening to aswell. Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of banking ondigital growth. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an APPsof pleasure. Until next time, be well and do good. Thank youfor listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh.Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us areview on apple podcast, Google podcast or spotify and subscribe while you're there.To get even more practical, improven insights, visit www dot digital growthcom to graba preview of James Roberts best selling book banking on digital growth, ororder a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'llfind a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve key areas of focus thatempower you to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Until next time, be well and do good.

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