Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

208) #GameChangers - Rediscovering the Lost Art of Customer Onboarding


We’ve all been there - after opening an account with a new bank or credit union, you never hear a peep from them. Why aren’t financial institutions more proactive with their customer onboarding?

I’m joined by J.J. Slygh, Principal Product Marketer at Total Expert, to talk about why so many FIs fail to make their new customers feel welcome.

Communication is the key to deepening relationships, but a lot of financial brands can do better.

Join us as we discuss:

- Missed opportunities for deepening relationships with customers (6:11)

- Cross-helping your customers rather than cross-selling (15:47)

- Using customer data to help with proactive outreach (25:32)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- J.J. Slygh

- Total Expert

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

What do you want that outreach to D for an on boarding? What kind of experience you want them to leave with? And then pieces can you turn over to technology. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Leigh, who believes it is possible for you and your financial brand to harness data and build customers for life. That's why today's episode is part of the Game Changer series, brought to you by total expert, a purpose built crm and customer engagement platform that creates growth and to increases loyalty for modern lenders and financial brands. Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Laigh and welcome to episode two hundred and eight of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the Game Changer series and I'm excited to welcome JJ slide to the show. With over twenty years of financial marketing experience, Jj is a customer experience consultant at total expert, where he is responsible for helping clients develop a clear path to an enhanced customer experience that is both practical and achievable. Prior to total expert, JJ served as vice president of marketing and creative acclient bank where he was responsible for driving account acquisition and deepening customer relationships, which is exactly what we're going to be talking about today, because when you deepen customer relationships, you truly do change the game for good. Welcome to the show, JJ. It is good to share time with you today. Thanks. Thanks for having me. James Robert, before we get into talking really what you see as future growth opportunities, game changing opportunities for financial brands, for banks and credit unions, what's good in your world right now? To get started, what's positive? Personal or professional? Your pick. Well, personnel, I think for me, just was included in a BIB AI article here recently. It's in their executive report. I think it's downloadable from their website. Talked and talked there about the importance of human connections with digital, digital transformation, but still maintain those those human connections, specifically for consumers and for small businesses as being a big part of the the banking community and how you help them and how important human connections really remain for that group specifically. So and then a professional side, we just came off of an accelerate conference. This is our total experts user conference that we do annually. So we just came from Nashville and I saw you there. was great to see you there, but having opportunity there to talk to our banking clients, Credit Union clients and just getting to understand more about how they're using our platform. I think it's important to really understand that. We have an idea how they're going to use it, but to see it in action, to see it in use and how they visualize using it, really can change up some of the things that we're doing. Are Our unders and things better say, you know,...

...we need to put more emphasis on this part of the part of the platform that we didn't even realize. So so really good stuff coming out from from that thing as well. Well. It was good seeing you and the rest of the team. They're catching up always. I mean there's nothing better than getting together and solving real problems identifying new opportunities, and y'all do such a great job of that, of really, you know, putting people at the center of your thinking, which then in return helps banks, helps crediting, put people at the center of their thinking and of they're doing, and it's just everyone grows, everyone gets better because of that, and I want to take a step back. I want to start by looking at the landscape here together and what are y'all seeing when it comes to will just say is digital growth, maturations. As you know, we continue to move forward in a post covid world. What are some of the trends that y'all have noted and identified? Yeah, so, I think some of the biggest ones. We did a survey last year with a bunch of banks and credit unions and really understand what they were trying to do and fortunately we saw a lot of good numbers from it. There was eighty five percent of them were we're doing something to advance their their customer experience using technology. Seventy some percent we're implementing some type of new technology. They were they were partnering with some technology partner. Really iry to understand how to how to advance that. I've been doing a few webinars over the past six months. What I've been finding the need is still out there for data consolidation marking outomation are two of the big things that people need a lot more help with. That they haven't they haven't gotten in some way and I think it's just important to understand that they sometimes don't know where to start when it comes to that, and data consolidation is a big one, because they're like, how do we how do we do this? How do we get this all together, and what do we need in order to to make this actionable? So I think the trends that way is these banks really did a lot of things in the last last year or two because of the pandemic. They moved ahead with some initiatives that they've been thinking about or slowly working on over the last five to seven years. So they got some of those pieces in place they needed, stood up some things that they needed. But now they're looking and saying, okay, what else do we need to help these help our customers even better and even more so. And and it's still comes back to that consolidation of data, marking outomation stuff that they were standing up platform so people could apply online right there. But you know, so they were doing the kind of operational things to get that operating. Now they got to start making a hum and start taking an advantage of that because even though people have started coming back in to the branches, it's not in the droves that they were before and, as we've seen that decline go in terms of people coming into lot be as it's been going down and...

...they predict how many, how much less it is over the years, will speed up quickly again because it, because of covid and pendulum, is still kind of working its way back and we're not sure where it's going to finding land. That's a great point about really, I would say, simplifying the complexities of data one and then too, optimizing marketing automation, maybe taking that a step further, maximizing marketing automation and the value that it can create to really change the game internally as well as externally. And I think if you take both of those perspectives, simplifying data maximizing marketing automation, that can help a financial brand of Baker crediting and really deepen relationships with those that they have worked so hard to attract, to acquire new accounts, retain those accounts. And when you think about it, they're they're spending anywhere between four hundred to seven hundred dollars to acquire an account. But then what happens? I think that is the next area of growth, of really game changing opportunity to deepen relationships, a deep in share of wallet what are some of the challenges you see when it comes to missed opportunities to deepen those releasi relationships that lead to to to a deepening of the share of wallet? Yeah, so that so definitely another one of those things that we talked to banks and credit means about is that onboarding process and and and right now it's not necessarily as great. People maybe open up an account online and then they kind of disappear. They don't have quite the experience they had before when somebody would spend time with them. So so that's one of the things that they're approaching us to talk about is how do we improve our onboarding? We want to make sure these people are using our stuff. That because it's easy to sign up for account, but you still got to fund it, you still got to start using debit card, you still have to line sign up for online banking. So there's all these pieces that that can either create an engage customer or somebody who's just kind of using the account and not necessarily really strong, you know, strongly tied to your brand. So those opportunities exist quite a bit right now for banks that really strengthen their onboarding process and, like you, were saying about the you know how to keep and hang on to them. Now you know this. I know that other people have talked about this. Ron Shelbyn at cornerstone, Jason Hendrix at Alley labs. The financial relationships that we have are now, more than ever, spread out, you know, all over the place. And to talk more about that, I have got some data that shows like fifty percent of consumers use two or more banks. Yes, not just one. So so we know that. Well, that's just a question about a bank or, you know, a financial institution. And what Ron Shelvin always likes to playing out is, what about that starbucks card? You know, starbucks has like two billion dollars sitting out assets right on the on their APP, just waiting to be I mean that's so it's incredible when you...

...think about that, like to billion just sittillia there, yeah, just, yea, let me just just sitting there waiting for someone to use and purchase a coffee with. And I'm sure starbucks isn't just sitting there, you sitting on that money. They're using it for absolutely, but that is a financial relationship. It even if you don't immediately assume that it is. So so I think that is that's out there, and so people drift of these other things, they start using their money in different ways. Cryptocurrency, obviously, who knows what's you know, that's in chaos right now. But still there's still a huge number of people that had invested in cryptocurrency and banks, credit UN saying, well, how do we get involved in that space? So so you have this this whole stretch of on boarding somebody to get them engaged, looking at how what are the things you have that they are interested or need, and again that culd goes back to the data and using the data and really understanding, you know, what are the next steps of people take after they open an account, but the next things they need based on their based on their lifestyle, based on their spending habits. And then how do you re engage in, Re engage with them? And so so we kind of have these three buckets that we talked about and we talked about on boarding, talk about cross sell and we talked about retention and within retention we have reboarding. So those are the opportunities to to be engaged with someone who stopped. Somebody stops using their debit card or their credit card or stop logging in online banking, those things that you want to do to like remind them, Hey, this is this is good for you to do. It's good for you to logging the online banking minimize fraud on your account. You know, we're are doing our best to protect you, but it's good for you to protect yourself. So I think those opportunities exists out there to to really wrap your arms around them. Obviously they're going to use these other things, are going to use their star Works Car Jack. Stop that, and that's fine, but as long as you're main you know, remaining present in their in their daily lives, remaining present with educating them, advising them, the next time they have that major milestone, they're going to come back to you and they're not going to see an ad pop up in their Google for something and say, Oh, perfect, that's exactly what I need right now. You're going to be the one that's popping up to them saying that's what I need right now from them. I like that remaining remaining present, but then utilizing data, utilizing automation to not just remain present but to then take that presence and be proactive as well. I think that's where real value creation comes from. And speaking about being present, speak about being proactive. I want to get real practical here around this opportunity of on boarding and I like those three buckets of onboarding, retention of and then and then re engagement. And when you when you look at that, there was a financial brand in California that I know that you and the team at total expert helped to change the game for it really help them start winning big. They had seventy fivezero account holders and they were doing fantastic things. But there was a really big problem. There's a major blind spot that was costing them big time in in it came...

...from the fact that there was no communication. There's no communication for two weeks after opening a new account. Zero, Zilch, not. It was almost like a communication blackout. I'm curious what was going on here. What was the problem in? Why is this a problem? Because we see a lot of this in some of the diagnostic and discovery work that we do with secret shopping studies. Someone opens an account and then nothing. There's so much to do. You have to put your focus on very specific things. If you're in a marketing department, if you're a customer experience. Apartment with a lot and not with a lot of resources, right, so you have to look at and say what's my priority? So in this case, new checking accounts or probably more of a priority than a single service loan only customer. And so, as a result, where does the attention fall? Where does it where does the effort fall? The checking account or something more specific? You know, that's that's that's a major driver of relationships. Total expert beliefs empowering financial brands and lenders to have a human first connection with their customers will create a financially healthier world, and there is no better way for you to create a human first connection than through total expert, named the number one crm by ratmore group. visit www dot total expertcom to learn how you can build an even better customer experience through deeper insights and meaningful engagements. And you've got a lot of empathy for this too, because you've been on the other side. You know what it feels like to sit in that seat. Right. Yes, for sure I was. I was at a internal marketing apartment for ten years at a two billion dollar bank here in the Minneapolis area. So we dealt with this on a daily basis and we set up some automated onboarding. But again, we started with our checking account stuff. We started with online banking users not logging in. So there was there was focuses that we had because we had to, because we had, you know, team that was trying to maximize our efforts. I think I mentioned before at one point to you. So we'll share automation. I know I've heard this, you know, taking a file, downloading it from here, uploading it over here, and so you end up adding a lot of menial tasks to your day, still doing good work, but it takes away from those opportunities to expand into other parts, other products and take advantage of those. And just like you said, no communication within two weeks. We've seen this. Researcher shows. Yeah, you know, people don't expand the relationships because they simply weren't asked. Now I people will say, people say they didn't. Jason Hendrix loves to say this. Nobody goes into the bank saying I want to be cross old to right. But but they're also surprised when you don't try to offer them relevant things, relevant, you know, not just throw stuff at them.

Here's this and this, and what about this? It's that relevant type of products. So so yeah, so on boarding. So what happened with this is that obviously they took the opportunity to use our platform to send out and started journey for this, for this group of people that were just a single lone, single loan only customer. Now what has typically in the past been a standard, you know, for converting those type of customers, two to three percent, we were converting at more than three times at so around ten, ten, ten to ten percent and version rate. And this is simply reaching out to them, adding a little human connection in there and suddenly they're converting at more than three times with they only been best. So so perfect example of how adding technology to something that maybe people don't have the time to do suddenly just creates a great opportunity for the for the organization. I want to connect something that I think is very important for the dear listener to q into. Not only did you increase communication cadence, that that was one thing, but you increased human connection and human outreach as well, which connects the dot back to the whole Bai insights that you are sharing to start this conversation so it was using technology to connect humanity back together once again, using data and automation to create some exponential scale to x what they were already, you know, doing, but take it and make it even that much better. It's funny you mentioned Jason and the idea of cross selling. I want to I want to poke on this just a little bit, because how much that term cross selling might get in the way of of a commitment there within an organization, maybe even more so, it'd say, on the Credit Union side, because there's that word selling. It's sometimes it's it is met with a bit of an internal mind block or a road block. What if, instead of cross selling, because words have power, right, but what if it was a cross selling, what if it was cross helping, because it's like no one wants to be sold to, but no one's going to reject help. Maybe, maybe that might help transform some of the that that internal pushback. We're not wanting to cross sell, we're wanting to cross help, because when we cross help then we create more value and we all went together from that. What's your take on Cross helping here? I love the idea because it's true a you know, we were talking earlier about about consolidating data and marking animation, and even that word marketing automation is maybe not the right word in the front either. Maybe yeah, lationship automation, it's cross helping. So I think those are the things that make do help change the mindset...

...what you're doing. So it's interesting that you're saying that because I was just facilitating a workshop and it was around, quote unquote, marketing automation and it was the Fairly Large Group, maybe fif twenty key stakeholds with an organization. And I said if we need to be very careful with this word marketing automation because it's going to pigeon hole this particular and it we weren't even talking technology. It was a pretty just the whole concept, the idea, and I said what if we instead of it being marketing automation, because then I was like, well, then you have cells automation and then you have service automation. What if it was experience automation? And that right there, I think, really lit people's eyes up because they could see that it was more than just a marketing activity, it was more than just a cell's activity, it was more than just a service. It was really about automating experiences and what our experiences? Well defined systems and processes that have been strategically thought out, then applied, and then the secret is to continuously optimize them over time with what with data, to make them even better. That result in either a positive or a negative emotion. So I'm liking where this is going and we're almost kind of creating together in real time experience automation. I love it, I think it's great. I think it's it kind of goes in line with how we change our platform. Used to be called them are MOS, market operating system MMMS, like we talked about like that is such a term pigeon holes it in a certain way that you don't want, and we now we refer more to it as an experienced platform and and so it goes train line with what you're saying their experience, experience automation. I love the idea of crocks helping or something like that. is to really deep in that relationship. Increase Wallet share even is kind of kind of could be a negative. A negative more negative is if you're seeing wallet share because you're talking about something like not necessarily helping. It's like taking more of their wallet I'm rite, even though even those, those terms are kind of vernacular that we've got in in the ecosystem and people understand it. That's that's that's a challenge. But I think simple changes like that do do make a difference and they can change people's minds what it means and what you're trying to do with it too. Yeah, and there's so much history tied up into that. I think if we're wanting to blaze new trails that put people at the center of our thinking and doing, it's these small little changes of how we communicate that can have big impacts over our next best steps. Let's say I'm a dear listener. I'm hearing this, I'm shaking my head. I'm thinking, yes, this is me. This is where we're struggling right now, particularly around the onboarding what what's the next best step? What can I do jj help me out here? Well, I think it's partly it's really about mapping out what you're trying... do with an onboarding experience and really understanding it. We we developed wanted are at our bank. We've got some premade ones here at tourd expert that can be applied easily and quickly to organizations that come on. But I think the first thing to do is just look at what you want that, what you want that, what you want that to do, what you want that relationship to be like and how you want to set it up. The one that we developed at my bank that I felt was really strong, did that in terms of technology and human connection. Banks for years had this to to to say out one thing, you know, like two days, two weeks, two months, you know, the six months year, and then that was that. They forgot about. But but really it was. We didn't want to take away from that because there are still some good human outreach there. But what we saw it as we're going to inject some technology here, so when they have those conversations at the two week and the two months, they're not talking about, Oh, did you get your debit card? Did you get it activated? We were going to let technology take over that part of it. So when they had that conversation at the two months time, how's your how is your account working for you? Is it doing you needed to do? Hmm, there's something else we can help you with now that we have this conversation that it's doing what we're doing and have deeper, deeper conversations, not Oh, you were having trouble with online banking, Oh let me help you with that, because that just wasted their entire time talking hom obviously want them to not have problems with online banking, but having technology education hate them along the way. When it's time to set up their online making to get their debit card activated, that stuff can be handled and people are fine with technology helping along with that. Yes, so, so I think I think that's the trick is like, what do you want that that that outreach to B for an on boarding? What you what kind of what kind of experience you want them to leave with? And then how can you what pieces can you turn over technic technology, things that that you can turn over and say this is fine, of technology reaches out to them and get them going on this. And this is what I want to do when we have our human outreach. I think that's one of the biggest things you can do to really make that shine. And then I think the other thing, because you've mentioned this human outreach a couple of times and I just want to keep coming back to that. I'm want to keep coming back to the human outreach here because through our primary research along with the secondary research. It is the human interaction, it is the human connection that has the greatest influence still in a person's overall financial journey. But it's using technology, I think, to help hold that human outreach accountable, but then document that too, because through our own studies in secret shopping that we do for financial brands, there might be an expectation that maybe there's human outreach but in reality that human outreach is not happening. So I think it's the technology that can also ensure the documentation that, yeah, we are outreaching where my there be roadblocks that the deal...

...listener could could be aware of her definitely a crm is one of the tools that it really helps with with documenting and keeping those things ready to ready in front of People's faces and and you almost need something like that to do this at scale. If you're try trying to do this through excel sheets or some other format, it's not going to be as effective. But something that really assigns these tasks holds you know, holds them accountable, not only to themselves, but they're senior lead to that that can see these definitely that that's that's what can happen. I think. I think overdoing it as well, and you're trying to do this at scale, but you still have human beings trying to reach out and they only have so much time correct. So. So I think the trick is is like what do you want that experienced and and how get where? And how it can you inject human reaction and how much can you handle? is another aspect. And again I think that's that's where that example re said is like what fell short and they had to focus on other things, other account opening things. They couldn't focus on this single, lone, only customer to try to get capture that business, because you can only have so many humans reach out at so many times, because you only have so many employees. And and right now it sounds like everything I read is a you know, talent is talent is hard to get. So it is tight right now, for sure. Yeah, and and and it used to be a very, very important job to be a banker and suddenly now you have places like gas stations paying such a high amount to get people in that now they're like, well, I could sit and deal with someone's money or I could sit and just say thank you very much for visiting and and the people are taking the easier route. So so you only have so many people eat. So the human human capital is a big thing. So you got to maximize that. That's where you know tools that keep these tasks up there for on boarding or for or for that cross helping, as we as we call it now. You have to get the best opportunities in front of them if they're going to do any type of each out, because you can't just be saying here's a giant list of people to call it. They don't have that kind of time. And that's where the data consolidation, the the insights gathered from that data can really make a difference to prioritize that our outreach so that not reaching out to everybody, they're reaching out to the best prospects, the best ones that can be helped the most, and so I think that's where technology really steps up. So robos definitely are just volume. You know volume of what you can do. So you need to find a way to manage it and see ourms a good solution to that. Let's let's also dive a little bit deeper into this cross helping here, because it's a perfect practical place to to provide proactive recommendations informed by data and then facilitated through experience automation. When you think about what you're seeing, where might there be the greatest opportunities to help with this proactive outreach informed by data, to to cross... Well, so I see. Yeah, so I think. I think there's a couple couple places. It depends on what, how, what you're using to help identify those insights. Now there's insights you can gather if you have a data analyst at Your Bank or credit uni. They can really dig into this stuff. Or there are things that we can we can provide the help customer intelligence type prebuilt things that that can alert you based on certain data points. There's other companies out there that can identify certain spending patterns based on data to to bring these things top of the bucket for people to call. So I think there's tools that actually have to get kind of bolted on or added on. The customer intelligence tools that we have are primarily around the mortgage stuff and they're fantastic because really, if you have an address, name, an address that you're monitoring and they put their house up for sale on the MLS, Yep, your bank or Credit Union can get alerted. Boom, hey, so and so just put their house for sale and you're like will big deal. That is a big deal. There's more than likely they're going to they're going to buy another house and that's your opportunity to step and say hey, we can help you with that house. Now what happens after they buy a house? Two Times more likely to make larger purchases. How can you help them with that? CREDIT CARD? Maybe a he lock, if they've got some instant equity in that home, which you know, based on the value of home, they might have some instant equity they could lean on. Six months after. What a people typically you after they buy a home? They buy a new car out alone. Boom so so in the number of financial residual financial things you can help them with, even if you end up not getting the mortgage, there's a lot out there, a lot of opportunities that to continually crossed help them with other products. So I think that's one of the big ones. Even the mortgage inquiry alert just will alert if they got there, if they got their credit checked for a mortgage. Yep, and so now you know whether they're going to buy a new home. Probably not refinancing at this point based on that, based on the rates, but but they're going to buy a new home. So again, you know they're buying something. You're like, well, they got their credit checked. Are They gonna, I think I even waste their time with me? Heck Yeah, they people typically do two to three, you know, applications to make sure that they're they're getting the best deal and if they know you, there's a good chance you could maybe capture that away. So if they're at a competitor getting their mortgage checked, why don't you know about this? Because the worst, the worst thing can happen is you don't know and then three months later they're pulling out all their savings from your bank because they need it for the down payment. You're like, wow, we just lost all those deposits, we didn't get the loan. Hopefully we can help them for something later on, but who knows where that relationship goes after that. So so those are the type of things that really can help you be very proactive when it comes to cross helping. Yeah, well, you know, I think to bring this all full circle, and this has been such a great conversation, JJ, let's get real prodctical here at theme, because it can feel so overwhelming. Like you said, to start this car versation, where... I begin? Where do I get started? How can I change the game at my financial brand, at my organization? And a lot of times it begins with one small, simple step. What would that next best step be for someone to just move forward, make a little bit of progress, get some wins, get some confidence so that they can continue to build their courage to commit on their own journey of growth? What would that next best thing be for the dear listener to do? From your perspective, I think it was me, it would be what is what is the one thing that I really want to change at my organization? What do I need to do that? So that would be like what kind of data do I really need? Because one of the things that gets people overwhelmed is this whole data consolidation thing, like, oh my gosh, I got eighteen systems I got to consolidate, this is going to be mind bending. But sometimes you can realize that to do a good on boarding only need you know twelve points of data. You need to know if their cards open, if their online banking has been activated, if you know if, if they if they use their card, those type of little simple things, and you're like, maybe I only need to get some data from a couple systems right now and I can make my online my onboardings, my onboarding experience so much better, because I already not have enough information to contact them through email, through a phone, not phone number. Now to reach out to them. I just need a couple other things to make sure that I'm hitting them up on the right things. Did they sign up for restatements? is another big one too, like I just need those few bits of data. So how do I get at that bit of data? Okay, not not overwhelm myself and saying I need every bit of data point everything that they're spending on, Bing Bang boom to make this great. I think you start there and say, okay, I need this little bit of data. Let me see how I get that, how I retrieve that bet and how I how do I get that together? Now it may be that you have no system to do it, and that's where you have to start looking at Benders, of course, obviously self serving in total expert as an experienced platform, has a lot of the stuff together that in one platforms make easy, so easy for me to say just make a call to us and we can help you, but distant. But to start off, I think it's just a better idea to think about how you're gonna how are you going to how you going to build this out and build up one thing and say this is how we can make this thing shine, how we can make it saying this is all what we really need to do it, and then start looking at how you can make that happen. So definitely that's a really simplistic way to look at it. But I think the biggest thing is just start with something small that you can make get a good win out of that makes sense for your organization. I like that. Start Small, get a good win and frame it around your unique situation at your financial brand, because it's it's so easy to want to try to boil the ocean with Gobs of opportunity, but then it's like that. It's this negative cycle of what do we do next? Where do we start? And then we don't do anything and then the future becomes the predictable past. And so start small, get really, really clear and then get some quick wins. That's a great, great thought. Jj thanks so much for joining me on this episode of Vaking on digital growth. What's the next best way someone can contin... the conversation that we started here today? For us it's a simple reach out to total expertcom and you could reach out to me through Linkedin and I'm happy to facilitate any further conversations. I'm happy to be part of that conversation. So at Linkedin I can just be found at jjsly, if you just do a search, I'm the only one out there fortunately, and so it's pretty easy to get find me and reach out to me and I can help connect people to total expert total expertcom is great place to start. A lot of a lot of good resources out there, a lot of good blog post to talk about a lot of things I just mentioned. Going to be on a Webinar I think next month for a c you know, watch from me popping up in your email boxes. I'm sure if you're listening you're at a bank and our stuff is going out and me and others from our organization, being on financial brand, thank director, pop up there all the time. So watch from are those. Reach out to me, reach out to total xpercom. Any of those will help connect with JJ, learn from JJ, grow with Jj. A hey day, hey, this has been fantastic. And y'all do you? You put out so much helpful content, information resources, because you're helping provide that clarity into what the next best steps are. Your guiding financial brands on their journey of growth. You're putting people at the center of your thinking of you're doing with everything that you'll do a total expert. So I appreciate a keep up the good work and thanks for joining me for another episode of banking on digital growth. Thank you so much, as always, and until next time, be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Leigh, brought to you by total expert, who has built the world's leading C R M and customer engagement platform to create growth and loyalty for modern lenders and Financial Institutions. To learn more about how you can harness data and build customers for life, visit www dot total expert dotcom. Until next time, be well and do good.

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