Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 1 year ago

17) #ExponentialInsights: Why You Need to Double Down on Content Now w/ Michael Bertini

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

There’s a lot of unease about marketing in the COVID-19 world.

But there really shouldn’t be. 

Content is king. It always has been. 

And your financial brand should be doubling down on it right now. 

To find out how, I invited Michael Bertini, Online Marketing Consultant & Search Strategies at iQuanti, onto this episode to share his insights into the content strategies that really work. 

We discuss:

-Why content is still king

-How to implement an agile content strategy (hint: freelancers)

-Why there are no tricks, secret sauces or golden eggs

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Everybody's always looking for the secret sauce and bolden goose and, like you know, next best thing sincise bread. Content hasn't changed. Content is always been king, relevant content is always been kaing. Quality content is always been king and just hasn't changed. You are listening to banking on digital growth with James Robert Lay, a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating ten times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series, where James Robert Interviews the industry's top marketing, sales and FINTECH leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show. Greetings in Hello, I am James Robert Lay and welcome to another episode of the banking on digital growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Michael Bertini to the show because he's doing a lot of good work right now as the online marketing consultant search strategists at I quantity. Michael, welcome, thanks for having me. You know, right now we are in a very interesting time. One of the things that I like to know from you is what are you working on right now? That's exciting, even amidst of all of this covid nineteen crisis, this health crisis, because what I see is next the opportunity for financial brands is the covid nineteen financial health crisis. Yeah, so from our perspective it's interesting because, like when all this happens, everybody obviously freaks out, you know, it's a big panic right like what's going to go down? Are People going to get laid off? I quantity where fortune. We're very fortunate in the sense that majority of our clients our large enterprises, and a lot of them are in financial services. And so right now we at least from what we're seeing, is people are actually doubling down on content. I mean now that everybody is remote, like everybody, meaning all end extrees, pretty much every remote, everyone's doubling down on content right so, even though they're pulling back in some paid efforts, we've seen they're creating massive amounts of content and doing a lot of pr for that content. So I would say like right now at least, what's new and exciting and all of my conversations is, you know, legal and compliance seems before, for a large enterprise, takes, you know, six, eight, twelve weeks to approve of a peace going out. Yeah, now it's like within like twenty four, four, eight hours we're having content being approved, you know, by Llenc and saying yeah, let's push it out, let's get as much content as we can out there to the market. So it's really good to hear you say that because I can tell you from our worldview and and talking with different financial brands, I've heard some concerns from...

...those who work in content because they're typically maybe a little bit lower on the totem pole. They've shared with me in private. They're like well, kind of concern, like if things get bad, my job's going to go. I'm like no, you're in a really good place right now being in content, because you are the conduit to which you could communicate confidence, you can communicate clarity, and that's what people are looking for in this time of crisis and confusion. Right. Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Actually, I just had this conversation with a writer yesterday. He writes for Forbes and you know, a few other big publications. We were just having this conversations. Like, Dude, right now, take as much freelance work as you can, like, take as much as you I mean, this is right now for you to wrap up as much cash as possible. Everybody needs content right now, and I think even amiss like this whole pandemic, like a lot of publications. I'm even getting these emails from, you know, editors that I know, junior editors that I know, that are reaching out like hey, can you please send me something that is not coronavirus related, like anything, Dude, send me any sort of content you have that's not coronavirus related. Our readers are asking for stuff like that. It just and I think that kind of goes I was listening to a doctor, Phil you know, his inhome thing or whatever, and he was basically saying he's like, listen, you have to think about the mental health aspect. This is pausing on people right, and I'll lot of people. I mean we all. I work from home, right, and so I I understand what it's like all the time, but for somebody who is now in total isolation right, this takes a toll on you. And then even the concept of like what's net. This takes a toll on your mental health and we never really talk about these things. And so, like, like, I think about how this all can can can play together. Like marketers really need to take the take this time right now to get as much content in front of people as possible, letting them know that things are okay and there's other things to talk about other than just what's going on right now. Happy content right? Yes, yes, because you know people are looking for help and hope. You know, people be the Rock in the Sea of chaos that someone can cling to, be the light of clarity, to to create a path forward out of this darkness. We just had this conversation with amy McGraw at Tropical Financial this this idea of like mental health. There are seven stages of grief that people are literally having to work through in this massive change of environment. So anything that we can do to provide clarity, to provide confidence, to helps build someone's courage. It can't be all doom and gloom. I've even told financial brands look pull off the coronavirus like the little like the the the the news image of the virus on their covid nineteen page, because that...

...spark subconsciously like feet, like your subconscious of communicating fear right, like little middle nuances. Yeah, a hundred percent, like things like that, you know, and I think this kind of goes into like the like what sits in our subconscious when we see things like that, like you start depending and truth be told, and a lot of people think this affects one certain type of demographic or psychographic the truth is it doesn't matter how much money you have. If you have your Iras cat there, you know you're wroth iories cat therey year, and you know I mean your total investor. You're playing the market. It doesn't matter, it's still affects you. It'll sit in the back of your head and it'll linger and that fear is there. So I think the goal needs to be, like, let's talk about something and not to discredit it, right, not to put it off, because it is what it is. It's here right. Give users like a mental outright, give them that opportunity, like before we had tablets and all these computers and stuff like that, where you'd have to go through a book and read a book and actually, you know, get out of this world, so to speak in your book. We need to do that. We need to bring that back to users and I think like users will appreciate it. I did a post recently that said right now is the time where you get to see what brands that like, that you want to use in the future. Right, how brands behave now is going to determine how they're users go back to using them or even use them in the future. Man, like this whole theme of content. It because content the what I teach is content is the fuel of the digital growth engine. That's what gets the gears turning, whether it be on the Ad Front, whether it be on the website, whether it be in marketing, automation workflows, whether it be in cells and service enablement, content is the fuel that turns these gears and with people are looking for help, to use your point, if people are looking for an out. I love your analogy of like the books. One of the things that I think is very practical, and I made this recommendation in a strategic coaching session that I did a couple days ago, facebook, social media. Set something up like an event and then set up use NETFLIX party. Have you seen Netflix party? Yeah, you're nail in it. Yet that's it, because you're truly getting people to I know you're a big deadpool fan, I know you love like the comics in the movies, but if we can build like these micro communities digitally in this time of isolation, we're human beings. We thrive to come together as people, as a community. So netflix party is one I think even like I'm a financial brand, promote, promote local business. Do like cash mobs, like digital cash mobs, but that's a great idea. Actually, any, if any, of my clients here that for local business is definitely do that. That's a great pr PR approach. Having some of your local, you know, credit unions or branches do that, like in some way, shape or firm help promote the local businesses through social media. I mean it's huge and unfortunately, at a local level that's...

...where you see a lot of like, you know, credit, credit UNIS you a little bit better job, but banks typically focus more on the national level, at least from a search perspective, and so that that's a great idea. Yeah, for local branches. Yeah, and you know, one of the things that what we're seeing is is the need to move quickly, the need to adapt the need to evolve, not only our actions, because what precedes actions is our thoughts. What, from your perspective, can financial brands due to not get stuck, but to use this almost as the need we got to get move it on this digital strategy piece, because some are like dip tow on their water, some and not so much. But what do you think? How can they move more quickly at a time like this? I would say so. One of the things, especially I see it like it's big with financial brands, especially at an enterprise level, is there's so many layers to getting something out. The Brit the the credit unions, I think, and it's interesting because I do, I even talk about this with like the big national brands, but a lot of smaller credit unions can actually take search away, like share, a voice away from the these bigger brands because they're more agile. Yes, when you think of like you know, these these credit menings that are doing really well. Obviously I'm in Flora, so I know of a bunch of him here in Florida, or a few and here in Florida that do well, but it's because they're agile. When you think, when you're at a very you know enterprise on when you have all these layers to get through stuff, at some point you have to start chopping layers if you're going to want to be this like demand ready and so like, I think I'm not going to say that this is a blessing in disguise, you know, having, you know, a pandemic, but a lot of brands. Right now, this is the perfect time to test and agile strategy, because it's like you need to be as agile as possible right now with everything, with your social media responses, with your you know, so many rights. A review on you. You need to comment back, like just across the entire board, being as agile as possible. Now is the time to do it and now is the time to put it in practice. If, if, right now, you had previously a brand manager approving all of content and legal compliance, it's like like does it really have to roll that way right? Yeah, I mean like looks. Take a really practical example, something that I saw come across my feet, of a brand, they're not in financial services, being agile, but it's one of the world's biggest brands to where they change their brand. They have transformed their brand for the time being and that's McDonald's. Have you seen what they've done with the Golden Arch Us, nicky dis yeah, that's genius. They've separated the Golden Arches to represent social distancing. And what better way to be to be aware and then to be able to take action? Because because when you...

...look at Agile, I break this down like four components plan, produced, promote, perform and doing that on a thirty day cycle and then learning and then applying that. But where, to your point, they get all these layers? Fear failure. That might be what holds people back and I think there's got to be some type of leeway of dynamics. Yes, yeah, a hundred percent, and it's interesting. So when you go, I think they do well at the planning stage, right. That's where there's not as many layers there, if you will, especially when you're working with an agency like us. You know we help there. But then when you look at performance and eat just you know, generally speaking a lot of things don't get put out and tested just because of how long and by the time that that things get pushed out and tested, you've already missed it. Right, like you can literally follow Google trends. It's free. Any any of us can all follow Google trends. Even if you're not a search marketer and you're just a business owner, small business owner, you can follow Google trends. It's absolutely free and you could see what's going on on which trending right now and it's crazy, but you can leverage like I assume if I just, I don't know, I was a I was a a plumber, a low plumber, I would figure out a way. So look at Google trends and then figure out how I can tight in any sort of what I do into what's trending, because it's that easy to get picked up and people think it's a huge rocket science and it really isn't. It is so quick to get picked up and become trending. People do it all the time. Yes, super easily, just by watching Google trends. Yeah, so it's about listening, it's about learning and it's about applying that learning APP and Thea Yep, and that's where, like I look at like the digital growth operating environments. There's four of them. There's there's there's learn, there's thinking, there's doing and then there's reviewing. You mentioned that they're good in the planning. I would actually maybe push back a little bit on that. where I feel like financial brands do a great job is in the execution, the doing, because that's where they get stuck right like the and they get heads down and they don't get heads up and then they then the world, the environment changes so quickly. So it's really about creating space and time and making it a habit, making it a habit so it's new, like new new thought process has that have to be created through this. You know, one of the things that that I saw, and we were published together on this in an article for the financial brand, which we were supposed to both be speaking there this year. We so will. Hopefully it is pushed out. Yea, it just got pushed back and I'm really looking forward to that. But is what's going on, because you've mentioned content. You keep coming back this idea of content and and we're like minds on this because the ad game is changing so quickly. It has changed so quickly. I've been frustrated for financial brands who are like throwing millions of dollars away and are able to even quantify. So let's...

...talk about the changing ad game, particularly with what's coming in two thousand and twenty two with Google and chrome and and the limiting of third party, third party pixels. Yeah, I think that. So this is this is tricky, right because obviously, like I from a marketer's perspective, I'm like, I want as many cookies as possible for its, like I want I want to I want to have you cookie up so I can know every thing about your whole life and then's done right ran. It's so funny because people like, Oh, my phone is listening to me. If I could do that as a marketer, I promise you I would do that right now. As a user, on the other hand, and understanding, you know, security and privacy, I understand the concerns behind it. I mean I'm sure if anybody you know reads any of the articles that I put out or you know where I've been quoted, people know that I am definitely I go against the grain with Google quite a bit, and that's because, I mean, I've been doing this for some time and I've realized, you know, how much Google says one thing and it's completely doing something else. I think you know. Getting back to this whole concept, there are content. Idea is content having having these walled gardens if you will, yes, when you're able to have relationships with several sites right where you can offer free content and exchange content and have these, you know, quote unquote, partnerships with these sites, you're still able to leverage, if you will, some of this like walled garden concept great correct content in general is, I mean it's a big weightedge in Google's algorithm. Content is always been king. I get asked maybe once or twice a month from you know, meetings, what's new and Google's algorithm, and everybody's always looking for the secret sauce and the Golden Goose and, like, you know, next best thing sin slight spread. Content hasn't changed. Content is always been kaing. Relevant content is always been kaying. Quality content is always been king and just hasn't changed. I think that you want help yourself from a search perspective, but to going seeing how Google has been going, not just recently, meaning the past year, so with you know wall gardens, but just with everything. How like if you have a pay walled content site, yeah, you use your rankings. I have a case city on that that I'm working on right now. A big actually one of the largest financial publications in the United States. If not, maybe even globally, as a client of arts and they implemented pay walled content. Take their rankings. Yep, that's crazy to me like that. That to me. And but Google will do the exact same thing. That's Google's plan. That's their ultimate goal. Yes, and it's like, as a marker, do you have to think to yourself, how do you future proof? You know, like how do you make yourself where it's evergreen? And I think like you have to put a strategy and like now in place where you reach out to all these affiliates that you have. You reach out to even people who you think won't, couldn't possibly be an affiliate to you're in a partner and offer some sort of content exchange. This way you can get yourself in some...

...sort of wall guarden. Technology has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumer shop for and buy financial services forever. Now consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch, if they walk into a branch at all. But your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand. Marketing and sales leader. But it doesn't have to, because James Robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey. Visit www dot digital growthcom to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands, and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show. So what you're what you're referencing, is a lot of what I teach, and that is transforming the marketing team to start thinking more like a media publication, a media organization, and less like a traditional, for Godsakes, the you know, I'm kids that play with Payton crayons. You know I'm a glorified inhouse kin goes. No, we're a media organization and we have a strategy to produce, not only produce, because that's only one half of the equation, but then to effectively promote the content that we produce. Right, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, and that gets into off page SEO. Sure you know it's not about what you say about yourself. You can talk the world about yourself, you can say you're the latest and greatest and the best thing, but it's what others are saying about you. But Yeah, you definitely want to take that approach. Yeah, that you're referencing. Let me let me ask you. You know, when we're talking about content production, is there a recommendation to the amount of content a financial brand should consider producing on a monthly basis for relevancy, for ranking, anything from your research that you've looked at there? So every there is no cookie cutter solution. I know everybody looks for it, especially like we'll get into meetings and everyone's like, you know, how many words should I write? Like what's the good? You know, a good amount of words I should be writing, right, or how many, you know, content pieces should I produce a month? It's really based on competition, right, who you're competing again? So if you're like many of these financial brands and you're competing against an aggregator like nerd wallet, like who? By the way, we all built, and by we all I mean all the brands who decided, like I'm not going to create content. That's a dumb idea. You're never make money off of creating contents like well, now you have nerdwall, right and right. You now pay nerdwall at a fee...

...for all those referral business right. Yep. I think that if you're competing against somebody like a nerd wallet, especially if you're a smaller institution, I would say try to think of a different you know, content strategy and angle deferit. Yeah, different angle exactly, both from a topic perspective but also from a quantity perspective. YEA, so difficult to compete, I'll tell you. Like, because, because here's the opportunity that I see, because you got the big players, and if I'm a smaller, like local institution, that's the opportunity is to try to focus more locally. Number One. And number two, I kind of have given just because people like will, can you just give me some guidance? Like, look, three to five thousand words per month. Let's just kind of get that as a it's almost like I'm you go to the gym and you're asking will just give me some reps to do. Okay, here do these thirty minutes on the treadmill. Fifteen minutes on the stairstepper just to at least kind of get started, to get kind of create the habit. But then when you start saying, well, three to five thousand words from month, I see the look of like fear come across their face. I out, wow, are we going to do that? Lancers, freelancers, there's content going back to are you know talking about earlier? It's, it's there's so many writers that work remote, Mommy bloggers right there. Then will like target these people like you, send them an email. Find a mommy block sender. Do you know center and need to find a daddy bloggers? Send him an email right, ask them, Hey, look, will pay you whatever, fifty bucks a piece, right, or something like that, if you're, you know, smaller, your seventy five, whatever it is, whatever the fee is higher, freelancers to create this content for you. And then, as far as like, if you were looking for that, like where's a good place to start, like you were saying, in building a habit? Do Press releases? Do Make me start off with two press releases a month, right. Just get some content out there, to market, get your name known covered that whatever, that niches, that angle, that you're you know you're looking to cover that won't compete with the bigger sites. Find whatever that angle is and then and then, you know, put up product, put some content together and then put a press release out as far as content on your site. So if I were dealing with if I were speaking to somebody like, let's say tropical financial right, I would say put together several content calendars. One content calendar that talks about your on page content, right, things like blog kind of content that can go out in, you know, email blasts that can go out on your social media that you could use for remarketing and page content. Set The foundation on your website, because that's critical, but then create so courting content for that content right, and then push that out as well through press releases. You can find a press release now, I mean they're dirt cheat these days. are like a hundred, forty nine dollars right for a single press release. That single press to release can generate a lot of buzz for you. Local Buzz, national buzz. You can have other editors finding in and say hey, like that, can you write this piece for me?...

I mean there's a lot you can be doing right now. You know you're I really like where you're coming the angle that you're attacking this problem with. You know, freelancers. There's a gentleman by the name of Philip Taylor, PT Taylor, and he has a platform called FINCON, and there's even a fincon market place that you can go and find people who already creating these microbrands, microinfluencer brands around like things like personal finance that I know would love to create content and be able to expand that transfer their knowledge, and I think that's the key. Like we're we were in the service economy. We've moved into the experience economy. My prediction, as we continue down this path, we're going to be moving into either the knowledge economy or what I would call the expert economy, and that's where, like content can be played to position yourself as the expert within the communities a financial brand serves. When we look at there's a lot of opportunity to create, there's a lot of opportunity to capture. What should a financial brand, on the flip side, be aware of? Of Not Getting distracted? There's a lot of bright shiny objects and I think we're on the same page with this one as well. Voice Search. Yeah, hype or help? That's all hype, that is all hi. It's really it's been making its way, it's been making its rounds and in the industry trades like that's the next big thing. And I'm right there with you, bro Like I get in a so many meeting games where it's like, you know, once again, these algorithm meetings where everybody wants to know, especially when you get, you know, stp level, what's the next? You know, what's the thing we need to be looking at for the future? And no shots, by the way, at my friends who are svp's at these brands, but but it's one of those things that like it's like answer box, right when answer box came out. Yep, everybody's like push it hard. Look these click to the rates are massive. You're literally to cools zero. Yeah, you're at the top right, everyone's going to see or whatever. And I remember so actually one of my mentors, and somebody I mean I look up since the beginning of time, I'm ran, fished in he huh, mostly myles. Yet he used to run the show over there. Now he's at you know, he did. He's doing his own thing. It's sparked to row, but just an amazing guy. He's totally like against the grain. He will tell it how it is. Kind of person. I'm just an amazing guy. But he came out with some data, but I remember being in these means. It's think, guys, maybe we shouldn't really focus on on answer box right, because think about it, like, at least when I've seen it, I don't click it. I see it, I get my answer. If I don't get my answer, I scroll down or I research when I'm looking for right, I'm not actually clicking it. And so ran did this study and he found out the exact same thing. And then even you know that. That challenged us to go and look at client data and we found out that they actually...

...convert lower having that answer box result. Do they get more visibility? I mean sure, yeah, and they're going to get, you know, their listical right, they're going to get whatever their how to is, but they're not. Ultimately, that doesn't pay any bills. No, yea. Doesn't generate any money for anybody. Yep, and so it actually hurts us in Google's whole goal, and I've been put it on this before, but Google's whole goal is to keep you on Google. That's where they make money. Exactly. It is not to send you away from Google. And so many times when I've spoken at conferences or in meetings or speaking with other seos training them, they're constantly on this idea like Google is for helping you out. Google is not for helping you out. Google is for helping Google out. They want you to stay on their platform and that's how they generate money. It's so funny to hear you say that because I bust my wife on this all the time when I'm seeing her search something and she clicks you, you know, even if it's like a branded search term, and then she'll click on the top that first link. I'm like, you just cost them like ten dollars. Don't do that. Go to the first organic search term. And I can't tell you like even, like with branded search, like how much money is thrown away just because it but it makes it makes Google money, and I especially these days. Yo, yeah, in two thousand and twenty, like, let's say go back seven or ten years. Let's go back a decade. I didn't have these issues with clients ten years ago, a decade, I was not seeing people compete like I did not see bank of America compete with chase for their own terms? Yeah, I like that was not a thing. Now you have big brands like chase. Hey, I mean, I'm not going to go to budge the big money. We see yes, to rank for their name. MMM, how is that fair? That doesn't even make sense. That should not be a thing. But why is it a thing? Because it makes it and it because Google wins. Google's the only winner and it's like a zero some game at that point. And I like what you're saying about rand like when everyone is doing like and I'm the same way. I'm a contrain. When everyone's going down that path, I'm like, well, that's too many people. Let's go down this path. Let's just see what's there. There might be something, there might not be, just my inquisitive nature. So, man, this is has been such a fun conversation, Michael. Seriously appreciate the time and you dropping dropping some knowledge and sharing some inside. Let's look ahead two years into the future, a bigger, better, brighter future for us all. What is one thing that you feel needs to happen for financial brands between now and then? For financial brands to continue to make progress along their digital growth journey. Huh? So this is going to be a little bit so. I know I'm going to Piss a lot of people off with saying this, but it's sticking to the foundations. A lot of brands are all looking for these...

...different like angles, if you will, to take and like, you know, these next golden gooses, and they completely go off foundational stuff. And the only thing I could think of right is when you look at a martial art, right, when you look at something like a you know, karate or taekwondo or any martial art right of Jiu Jitsu, wrestling. I remember my wrestling coach, both in middle school and high school, both coaches actually telling me, specifically coach Phillips, my high school wrestling coach, telling me learn these the set of moves, become the best at these moves and drill them over and over and over, drill them so much that whenever something happens, it will automatically trigger. Make them a habit. Make me happen to make them a habit exactly and im and it's so funny because even till this day, right, and I have a background and a few different disciplines, but even till this day, my wrestling somebody goes like my son, right, go say, you know, grab me, and I have certain reactions that are just automatic, right, or certain training that I've had, you know, firearms training, where certain things just are automatic, as you've done it so much, they're circumvacational exactly. And so we need to get back if it brands really want to be ever green, for Real, Evergreen, not just you know this, you know conceptually, you know the good concept of being evergreen, but really be evergreen is go back to what the foundation is. So when you think of an algorithm, right, everything revolves on two things. The two biggest things is going to be user experience, right, your website, so having a functional website that performs well these days. Obviously needs to be fast enough for mobile devices, right. But then the biggest, the absolute biggest thing, is your content. Is having all of the content in place. That's the foundation. Like people talk about, but let's build links, right. I hear that all the time and it's funny because I spent a large portion of my career as a black hat seo selling links, hypothetically speaking, selling links. Right, we all we all have a questionable pass exactly right and so and I remember like being approached and even till the days, sometimes I'm approached. It's like, let's build back links. How do I get more links? I want links, right, all these link things. And it's funny because I made so much money selling with some hypothetically selling links at one point and then obviously google penalize everybody. But you know for that tactic. But you don't build links to pages that don't exist, right, if you don't have content that's talking about how to save money traveling or your travel rewards card or how to you know, tips to saving for vacations? Right, if you don't have that content, nobody wants to link back to your sales and marketing pages. That's right, people don't want that. Stop trying to marry people before you court them. Right. So getting back to the foundation and building content is going to be key man...

...like what a great way to like wrap this up in a bow, because we see as we're moving into this covid nineteen financial health crisis, a lot of people are going to be affected. But what does not change is this. Money has been stressful, money is stressful and money will continue to be stressful, regardless of the environment that we're in and it is our job as financial brands to reduce the stress, to provide a help and hope and then to provide a clear path forward to a bigger, better, brighter future. And the way that we start to do that is through the content that we produced. We promote an ultimately, you know, date court before you ask for that hand in marriage, because this is it takes time for someone to make the right decision. So very, very good stuff. How can someone get in touch with you if they have additional question to just want to connect and say hello, Michael. Linkedin is the bait, the best plays. There's a few Michael Brottini's but on the Google Ninja. So that's you can find me on Linkedin and then, if as far as getting touched via email, throughout quantity. So Michael Dot Berttini at I quantitycom. And Yeah, either of those places. I know some people love twitter. I'm also on their Berttini with two eyes at the end. And Yeah, we'll get all that linked up in the show notes. Michael. Hey, thanks for joining me. Another great episode of banking on Digital Growth. Thanks, Michael. Yeah, thanks for having me. Until next time, be well. Do Good and wash your hands. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Laigh. Like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast, Google podcasts or spotify, and subscribe while you're there. To get even more practical, improven insights, visit www dot digital growthcom to grab a preview of James Roberts best selling book, banking on digital growth, or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon. Inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around twelve key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate ten times more loans and deposits. Until next time, be well and do good.

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