Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 6 months ago

161) #ExponentialInsights: How to Build Your Mental Wealth


Money doesn’t buy happiness… but mental health and finances are inextricable.

Financial uncertainty puts on everything else we value in life.

Overcoming most of our financial woes boil down to one thing: mindset.

It’s time everybody worked on their mental wealth.

And leading the charge is today’s guest, Joyce Marter, Licensed Psychotherapist, CEO, National Public Speaker, Media Contributor & Author of The Financial Mindset Fix: A Mental Fitness Program for an Abundant Life, who joins the show to share all the ways psychology affect how we interact with money.

Join us as we discuss:

- The connection between financial well-being and mental health

- Why the taboos around money make it hard to address the interplay between the two

- The 12 mindsets you can cultivate to boost your mental wealth

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...there's a lot of fear and anxiety and shame around money, it's very much tied with self esteem and worth and so you know, I think it's really important for people to examine those aspects of their relationship with money so they can get out of their own way. You're listening to banking on digital growth with James robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert ley interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello, I am James robert ley and welcome to the 161st episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast in today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome Joyce martyr to the show. Joyce is a licensed psychotherapist, national keynote speaker, media contributor, founder of Urban Balance and author of the financial mindset fix a mental fitness program for an abundant life. Welcome to the show Joyce, it is so good to have you on today. I'm really looking forward to this conversation because it is one that I've been thinking about, I've been writing about as a way for financial brands to put the transformation of people over, just to commoditize transaction of dollars and cents. So it's good to, to have a like mind to maybe do a little bit of mental sparring here. So before we get into that, I always like to start off on a positive note, um what has been going well for you? What is one good thing...

...personally, professionally, it's, it's always your pick to get started here. Well, thank you, I am very excited to be here. And what is going well is I just published my first book, the financial mindset fix, a mental fitness program for an abundant life and I did that after selling my business that I, I built and created and sold it in 2017 to focus on my speaking and writing, which I love, wow, well, I, you know, I'm excited to get into the book here, but I had no idea of what got you up to this point. Can you give us the story behind the story of why write this book in the first place? Yes, so I'm a psychotherapist, I've been practicing for 25 years and early on in my practice, I noticed something interesting as my clients made progress in therapy, they started to earn more money, they were getting raises and promotions and starting their own businesses and I was like, why is this happening? We're not even talking about finances and it was because we're always working on their underlying self worth. So I became really interested in the psychology of money. I'm an entrepreneur. I founded urban balance with excuse me urban balance, which is an outpatient mental health company that today has 17 locations in six states and I built it with the intention to make therapy accessible and affordable because I think we can all benefit from it at different points in our lives, Started it with $500, of student loans and sold it for several million. So big, big win that I'm very grateful to many people for helping me achieve that. You're, you're hitting on a couple of points here. one therapy is not a bad thing. Um, we all could use a little bit at certain times and I'll be the very first one to admit therapy has been very helpful and just, you know, rooting out some issues working on self.

Um, over the holiday was reading Ryan, Holiday's ego is the enemy. Um, and some really good thinking there. And then number two being an entrepreneur myself and you talked about the student loans, that's how this thing got started off. I actually sold off some band equipment because a girl told me in the library one day, she said I was a sophomore in college. Your band's not very good. Why don't you do something with your life? And I wanted to impress her. So I sold my band equipment, use my student loans to self fund this thing. And then here we are 20 years later and got the girl and uh, we got married 4.5 years after that and we now have four beautiful kids. Congratulations. Sounds like she's a smart woman. Oh she's way smarter than me, she is way smarter than me. But, but, but but seriously it's, it's interesting to hear where you got to this and the patterns that you were seeing, you weren't even having these conversations around money but maybe just other areas of quote unquote life. But as a result you started to see growth in these, these, these people that you you were helping, what what's the connection there? What's the connection between a, what we'll say is a person's wallet well being and their mental well being. There's a huge interconnection between mental well being and financial health. And in my practice I've worked with people from all walks of life And gathered a tremendous amount of data and I noticed 12 mindsets that I feature in my book that I realized lead to improved happiness and mental well being and also financial health and success and they're empirically supported. You hit the nail on the head with one of them is related to ego and we all have, you...

...know, egos as part of the human condition and I say healthy self esteem is midway between diva and doormat and dude can be divas too. So the diva is more arrogant, more egotistical, more grandiose and it's not respectful of other people's boundaries and the doormat is not respectful of his or her own might be an under earner And so we have to find that healthy self esteem, that middle range where we operate in the world consciously and with compassion and respect for others because business success is all about relationships. It really is. And you mentioned boundaries I can't think of of dr Henry cloud and john 1000 with, with their work and their writing over there. I wanna, I wanna ask you a question. How would you define The psychology of success? Because I know that's been an area of focus for you and I'm interested in this because it's been a study for me over the last 4-5 years, going back reading some of the works of like Napoleon Hill and William, waddles and Florence, Scovel shinn even in reflection over the last year or so, those works were published Right around 100 and 510 years ago, I got a similar time period of what people were experiencing back then as to what we've been going through today. Uh, and so there's a relevance here that I think of it. It's almost like the ancient wisdom, there's nothing new under the sun. What is old is new again? What is the psychology of success? How would you define that from your lens here? From my lens? Success is having mental well being physical health supported and connected relationships. Being aligned with your authentic self and your purpose in the world and having... peace and prosperity and and also work life balance. And so This I've been giving a talk for about 15 years called the psychology of success for corporations and universities, business schools etc. And it's on these 12 mindsets and and those include being present awareness, being self aware, having compassion, having vision, taking responsibility, practicing healthy detachment which is a mindfulness strategy to tolerate risk tolerance, fostering resilience, accessing support and more And so it's really a recipe for holistic wellness and you're right a lot of the people that are quote are like Rumi from the 14th century. This is not new stuff but it's universal truths. It's interesting you talk about detachment. One of the things that I've been sharing with my team and it might be the first time that I've ever shared this publicly is for the past few years I've had this loop in my head attached to nothing detached from everything. And I don't know where it came from. I don't know why it started playing over. But it's just this this constant loop to where I'm being more aware of the things that either a I'm attaching to or be I that I need to let go of. I even use an exercise and will be writing about this in my second book banking on change. And it's it's it's the question that I asked you to start this conversation what's been going well and in digital growth. Topia the only way that this A. D. D. M. I can remember things is with acronyms and so well is an acronym. Where have you been winning? So looking at the past a little bit, what are you excited about right now in the present moment? What have you learned and then what are you looking forward to? And then I've actually built upon that what's going well times L so there's there's a third l in that equation and...

...that's let go Because if we're going to achieve future growth, we need to let go of some things that are holding us back. And I'm curious when it comes to money. Um I know you you you've got these 12 areas of focus. Let's let's dig into the first one because it is through a lens of abundance. Um and I'm a big believer in looking at the world that hey there's plenty to go around here. Uh collaboration is greater than competition. So when it comes to a person's well being, financial, well being, mental, well being, physical, well being. How does abundance play into this conversation enormously? And especially during these challenging times with the pandemic, it's so easy to fall into a scarcity mindset where we have fear and competition about not enough resources and we hoard, think about the toilet paper incident or people are behaving that way with gasoline and other resources and an abundance mindset is a perspective that there's more than enough resources for all of us and when we have more it doesn't mean somebody has less, it's about openness, it's about creativity and problem solving and expansion and I really believe that when we have more, when we honor our inner strengths and align them with a need in the world to the greatest extent possible we create for others. We create jobs, we create opportunities, internships, we can be philanthropists. And so an abundance mindset is where you see possibilities rather than roadblocks. And that's something I saw in my practice.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is one of the most respected, empirically supported forms of therapy and it it asserts that our thoughts precede our emotions and behaviors. So I noticed in my clients, when people say, you know, I could never do that, that's not possible. That becomes self fulfilling prophecy and somebody who has a very different narrative is going to have a different outcome. And so it's about expanding, Looking past barriers and finding creative solutions and thinking bigger and that's not about greed because when we we have more, we can help more. We can be of greater service to others. And I believe the same abundance can be applied to love. I mean how many times have you heard people say, oh there's no good people today, there's nobody out there, that scarcity mindset, it can be applied to health, you know, there's only this treatment for the the issue that I'm having when maybe there's a whole array that you're not considering. So it's really about shifting your thinking, digital growth is a journey from good to great. But sometimes this journey can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming the good news is you don't have to take this journey alone because now you can join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and fin techs who are all learning, collaborating and growing together, visit digital growth dot com slash insider to learn more about how you can join the digital growth insider community to maximize your future digital growth potential. Now, back to the show. That's so true. And once again, I think I'm I'm even getting more vulnerable in this conversation just because you're you're going in places that we've never really explored in in these discussions, Take health right? Uh 2000 and nine, going to 2010, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease called ankle closing spondylitis, And I went through a period of depression after that because...

I was 28, we were pregnant with our first child. He was due in May of 2010 and my business was just booming at the time and I'm like, this is this is this is not supposed to be happening, but but but then I got my senses back together. I said, you know what, I am going to define what this means to me, this disease is not going to our condition is not going to define me. And it was, I think that choice right there, that then allowed me to continue to let go move forward onwards and upwards. And so when when we were talking through this, I want to get your take. Um because you've done a lot of work in this area, you have a financial brand, a bank, a credit union, a marketing sells a leadership team. Remember maybe even Fintech listening around the world, how can they bring some of this thinking into their organization? What might be the opportunities? Because this is a whole new game that I'm encouraging them to at least begin to think about to gain that sense of awareness of opportunity going forward. Where would that be from your lens of the world? Well you said so many important things and clearly you've done a lot of work on yourself. I mean you're you're focused on non attachment is really advanced. That's a mindfulness strategy and you're you're focused on your illness as being how you are and not who you are. It doesn't define you. That's another mindfulness approach. And so my book is a program with step by step actions with exercises. So business owners and leaders can reflect on each of these mindsets and then actively do exercises...

...that are proven from psychology to shift their mindset. And this is going to help you improve your vision for your company, your align your mission with a need in the world to be a force of good. It's going to help you get people behind you because you're accessing support your being a conscious and compassionate leader. It's going to help you deal with the live in the present, which many of us either ruminate about the past or we worry about the future. And there's a lot of worry about the uncertainty of the future. And so when you can detach from expectations that can help you find peace and clarity and equanimity, which really is needed to make grounded financial decisions. I can see a banker or a credit union leader listening to this and I'm just gonna go out and just put this out here and just see what happens for every checking account someone opens. They need to give them a copy of your book because I really think that it would provide so much more value than just the checking account. I mean honestly like back in the day you open a checking account, what you got a free toaster. What what good is that going to do now? We're really actually getting in to these other areas. What is it that you see that keeps people trapped in a negative cycle of what I'll call financial frustration. What what are the behaviors, what are the habits that hold people back? Because from from what I have seen in our study, what is it that holds people back? What keeps them stuck in financial frustration? Well, we all have our psychology of money, our thoughts and belief systems about what money means and our emotions around money, how we manage those emotions are behaviors around money. That's all psychology the basics of money management really isn't rocket..., it's our psychology that makes it difficult. But we might have been raised with cultural or religious beliefs that people with money are bad or greedy or evil and those might be unconsciously sabotaging us or we may have different money scripts. A lot of people are money avoidant and they go into denial. There's a lot of fear and anxiety and shame around money, it's very much tied with self esteem and worth and so, you know, I think it's really important for people to examine those aspects of their relationship with money so they can get out of their own way. Um I experienced this as an entrepreneur. I had self limiting thinking and self sabotaging behavior. So I learned from my clients and it helped me turn my ship around by applying tools from my clinical practice. It's I mean now in the back of my mind is it's Jim Rowan, you know, you're the average of the five people that you hang around with and when it does come to money and money psychology and money scripts, that is where I think Environment family of origin comes into play because that's what we subconsciously gain this perspective and even I episode 1 55 I had Dallaire on for a conversation and she works in the space and she has a financial coach and that has helped her to work even better to do more impactful work because she's been able to deal with some issues that we're holding her back. And so I think this is, you know, a conversation that is not only important to have externally with account holders, this is one that we as financial brands, banks credit in this Fintech, we could probably bring internally to have with our own team members because think...

...about it, it's there's gotta be some imposter syndrome going on. I work at a bank, I worked at a credit union, but man, I am struggling financially, that makes me a bit of a fake or a fraud. I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's not the case. Like we're all dealing, we're all on this journey together, we're just at like different points. How would you address that, bringing this idea of financial empowerment and abundance internally to help our team members. What's your take on that? Oh, it's so important for each of us to do our own work through financial advising, financial coaching or our own personal therapy, I definitely practice what I preach to do all of that because if you have team members that are dealing with imposter syndrome, which is something that I talk about in my book and the chapter on ego because it's an aspect of ego as a perfectionism if you can help people give some psychological tools to work around that. And it really is Suzie Orman noticed in her financial advising that self worth leads to net worth, but net worth does not lead to self worth. And like you said, we're all at different points in our trajectory in our levels of consciousness and and fiscal consciousness and success. And so we want to remove shame and judgment and comparison and it just is as it is, we each are as we are. So we have to exercise self compassion, not compare ourselves to others and focus on our inner worth. You know, we are not our bank accounts, but the better that we feel about ourselves and the more that we well gosh, I'm going on a tangent here. But finance finances are the reason That that 16% of people suicide, and that is terrifying. And so we need people to understand that we aren't our..., we are our souls or spirits or our authentic selves and we are innately deserving and valuable and separate from that a bit. And money comes and goes, I mean we've all known people who have been enormously successful and then lost everything, but you need to know that you're always worthy. Yes. And I think that's where there's so much opportunity to have and you have a chapter on this compassion, just being compassion for self. And even to the point of you mentioned the suicide statistic tammy lally has a great ted talk on that subject around financial shame um and how that impacted her personally, she gave a personal story, a personal narrative. And so when we're talking through this here, what are you most hopeful about? Like, like if you we project out three years into the future, what are you most hopeful for when it comes to? We'll call it, we'll just say putting the transformation of people over just the transaction of dollars and cents, because like you said, money comes money goes. But if we can focus internally, we can we can transform ourselves, we can transform our teams, we can transform our organizations, we can transform the lives of the people in the communities that we as financial brands in Fintech are serving and creating value for what are you most hopeful for? I hope to inspire empower and equip people to transform their lives personally and professionally and achieve holistic success an abundant life and give them tools to do that. I'm really passionate about de stigmatizing shame around mental health issues and financial struggle and creating these compassionate conversations and getting people to think about things a little differently.

And I think that's it it's it's it's the thinking because if we can help someone just transform their thinking that would then allow them and empower them to transform their doing and repeated doing becomes behaviors which are habits and so it's really just helping someone walk around the glass if you will get out of the glass, get out of the bottle and just look at the label, just like, let's just take a stroll on the outside, look at this very objectively. Um, and see where you're at, where you could go and and and just have a conversation, right? Is would that be a fair assessment? Yes. As human beings, we all tend to unconsciously repeat the familiar. And when we were talking about family of origin, my father was born during the great depression and had tremendous financial anxiety and a scarcity mindset. And I somehow recreated that in my adult life by having cash flow hell in my business. To the point where I couldn't sleep and was having panic and overwhelmed and really had to do a lot of my inner work. And my own therapist said to me, she was like Joyce, what does money mean to you? What do you think of when I say money? And I said, oh, I think of stress. And she said, well, no wonder you make it go away. So we have to re program that in order to save my business. You're giving me goose bumps right now because you mentioned your father so that I'm thinking about my grandparents who grew up in the great depression that then passed that behavior. And that mindset down to my parents and I grew up in a house that said, we can't afford it, we can't afford it, we can't afford it. And that was the programming loop in my own mind. And I see that, and and and that's what I really had to do a lot of work around because it creates that scarcity that we've literally started...

...this conversation, we've gone almost full circle as you look ahead, as we look ahead, You have hope here and you have these 12 areas of focus. If there was one that the dear listener could really tune in to focus on, what would that one be? I think one of my favorite chapters of the book is on self love and we're at a time where people are experiencing overwork and burnout and we're exhausted and depleted, especially with the pandemic. So focusing on self care and nurturing yourself so that you are well, because you can't be successful in business if you're depressed, exhausted having relationships, stress because you're not well. So I think really self care and working on your relationship with yourself is so important. I want to get your take on this because I address this in banking on digital growth. The bankers brain versus the consumer's brain. And what I mean by that is the bankers brain, it's very smart, it's analytical, it can deal with numbers that can deal with dollars and cents, consumers brain, on the other hand, is a bit more emotional, um what's the opportunity to maybe empower bankers to to not be so analytical, but to to allow for some of the dialogue and the conversation that we're having here because this could even get shut down before there's even a chance to have that discussion at least internally based upon just what makes a banker or financial brand leader of a financial brand leader, where where might there be opportunities to detach if you will from some of what has gotten us to this point in... services for each of us. Our blessings are also our challenges and so people who are good with finance are good with rules and structure and order and logic and rational thinking and that can also be constraining. Um it can make it difficult to think out of the box. Um you might tend to be more of a rule follower um might be you know adverse to some risk and things like that. So I love mindfulness practices um that can help us develop more insight with our connect with our deeper selves. So meditation practices, connecting with nature, deep breathing exercises to get out of our head and into our body and tap into the intuition and the wisdom of the body to have a more holistic sort of informed perspective when making decisions or being honest about how we feel about situations. We have covered a lot of ground today together and Joyce, I thank you for your thinking. I thank you for the journey that you've been on, the insights that you share in your book. I always like to end on a final note to help set the next steps forward because all transformation that leads to future growth begins with a very small and simple step and if we think about who's listening to this, someone who works in marketing, sales leadership at a financial brand, at a bank and a credit of Fintech, what would be your recommendation for them to continue to move forward? Either a on their own financial journey personally or be...

...really empower their account holders to transform their own thinking, their own relationship with money. So there's two possible paths that we could take here. It's either the internal self or empowering others with a very small, simple next best step, what would that be? Well of course it would be to work the program in my book and there's tons of exercises and they're available for downloadable PDFs that you can share with your teams and work on. There's a financial health wheel, there's an abundance wheel, innovative exercises they're fun to do. I give a ton of corporate trainings and workshops and so helping leadership work on the skills so they can pass them down to their teams and make it part of their culture. Absolutely, because it comes back to the what I what I write is the three transformations where you must transform the self to transform the team to then transform the organization and in financial services when we do that, we can truly transform the lives of people in the communities that we serve Joyce. This has been a lot of fun. Great conversation, thank you very much. If someone wants to continue the dialogue the discussion that we've started together here today, what is the best way for them to reach out and say hello to you, thank you so much. My website is Joyce smarter dot com, J O Y C E M A R T E R and I'm on linkedin and all social media and I'd love to hear from folks connect with Joyce learn from Joyce Joyce where can they get your book? I would assume amazon but but there's always like these little secret places to yes it's on amazon, it's on audible, it's in Barnes and noble and most major book retailers get the book the financial mindset fix a mental fitness program for an abundant live Joyce. Thank you for joining me on another episode of Banking on Digital Growth. Thank you so much for having me as always and until next time be well... good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert ley to get even more practical and proven insights along with coaching and guidance visit digital growth dot com slash insider to join a community of growth minded marketing and sales leaders from financial brands and Fin techs until next time be well and do good.

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