Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 9 months ago

153) #NewStartsNow: Building Better Internal Teams w/ Financial Collaboration


Collaboration isn’t always the easiest thing to do in finance. Through the COVID-19 pandemic, however, we’ve seen enough epiphanies from institutions to know that something is changing.

And while internal teams may fear change, educating and empowering them will help to bring future success for your company.

We speak with two team members at Nymbus, Renee Newman, Industry Advisory Board Member, and John Janclaes, CUSO President, about collaborative efforts of businesses through the pandemic, how business leaders are adapting to the change, and strategies to bring your team on board.

We cover:

- Listening & collaboration’s impact on a positive employee experience

- What’s keeping financial leaders up at night both positively & negatively

- How purpose can act as a central theme for internal teams

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or here .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

...the benefit of the pandemic. So many institutions had to lean in and they leverage their partnerships. And there were these wonderful a ha moments where they saw Wow, you know, this can help us. You're listening to banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley, who believes there is no better time than now to educate and empower financial brands to gain a fresh perspective around future growth opportunities. That's why today's episode is part of the new starts now series brought to You by Nimbus, who offers a complete set of tech tools and services all designed and engineered to empower you and your financial brand to maximize your future growth potential. Greetings and hello, I am James Robert Ley and welcome to the 153rd episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the news starts now series, and I'm excited to welcome both Renee Newman and John Jane Clays to the show. Renee is an accomplished financial services executive and board member, and John is the president of Nimbus Q. So we're going to focus the conversation today around two key elements required for continuous future growth when it comes to collaboration number one collaboration that happens internally and number two collaborations that happens externally. In fact, collaboration, as I've started sharing on the podcast based on conversations I've been having with others, is what I'm predicting is going to be a big theme we're going to see throughout the industry over the next three years. There's a transformation, really a buzz, I feel as I'm seeing more and more conversations around collaborations take place. Perhaps as Covid could have been the great connector, an event, an experience that has brought us all closer together, even though we might have been quote unquote apart for a bit of time and one of the best ways to collaborate with others, whether that be internally or externally, is to go all in on them all being an acronym here at Digital Growth Topia that stands for the A being asked the first l being listen and then the second l being learning, learning really through observation, so asking, listening and learning and with collaboration in mind for today's conversation. Welcome to the show Renee and John. It is good to have you both on today to be here before we get into our conversation around collaboration. I want to kick things off. I always like to kick things off on a positive note here and take a minute or two to collaborate, to converse for a bit about what's been going well for you. What's one thing that you're excited about? What's one thing that you're energized about right now, personally or professionally, it's always your pick. I'll go first. So I what I'm excited about is my golf game is coming back. You know, I retired my horse. I'm not jumping anymore. So I thought, You know what? I'm going to pick up the sticks again. And to my surprise, not too bad. You know, I broke 90 and I know that's not record breaking stuff, but, you know, I'm out playing again, and it's good you're doing way better than I ever have. So keep it up, and it's all about progress and not perfection. On that front. It's it's and I love golf because it's it really is. It's a game against yourself and the environment, and it's always something that you can continuously improve on. Renee, what about you? What's good in your world? Well, I just am loving this whole thanksgiving season honestly and gratitude and, you know, being able to reconnect with people and family. So I'm just really excited about that. And the year has gone by so quickly, so it gets me excited about what's in store for 2022. This year has flown by it. It really is amazing when we look back at where we've come from, where we're at and then looking ahead at where we can go next. I think you're hitting on a key theme here, Renee, This idea of reconnecting and I know John, you've been on a listening tour reconnecting for Nemesis Q. So first and foremost,...

...what does that mean? This idea of a listening to her. I like the sound of it. It rings well, but can you define what a listening tour is for the dear listener listening? I love that we're starting there because actually, yeah, listening to her is if you can get to the other side of a listening tour and you say, You know what? I see things the way they really are for my customers and for us. That's great. And that's what it's really all about So, you know, we put together starting in March. You know, the Cousteau got started and we thought, Hey, one, we need to get out and do awareness. But mostly just listen like what is going on? You know, for credit unions and and so probably visited 15 cities with 50 different leadership teams listen to their strategies about what they want to do. What's happened for them coming out of covid some pretty profound effects On them and drivers. And I also taught a class on risk management to 200 executives, and that was cool just to listen to them about what are the thorny problems you guys are facing and the risk that you're managing? And so it's just kind of taking in all that data just to kind of understand what's happening for everybody. That's a great point. And there's no better time, I think, to do something like this than now, considering what we have all experienced over the last 18 months. Renee, you're You want to give you this idea of reconnecting? I know listening collaboration. They do go hand in hand together and and listening is is a an external activity. But It can also be an internal activity, a key part of creating a positive E x or a positive employee experience, which is one of the experiences that we teach as part of the overall digital growth experience. I'm curious. Renee. Where does the idea of listening and collaboration resonate with a positive employee experience? Well, I think the world has changed as we've been discussing, and it's never going to be the same. And I think we have this wonderful opportunity to lean in and ask questions. And as leaders, a practice that I've established and I find super helpful is to ask what is really going well and what isn't going so well from an employee standpoint, I think we discover a lot of things you know, with the rush to get during covid and the pandemic to work from anywhere you know, Does that Does that mean it's optimum right now? No. I mean, how many systems does an employee have to click or enter or go through to effectively do their job? So I think now is a great time to just build that into your practice, asking those two valuable questions and it's interesting you talk about this idea of what's going well, what could be even better and well, is an acronym here at the Digital Growth Institute, where we take the first W. That's where have you been winning. What are your wins? The second point is the e. What are you excited about right now? So a little bit of past a little bit of present. We stay in the present with the first El what have you been learning? And then finally we get future focus. What are we looking forward to most? And so when's exciting learning and looking All are a part of this idea of the experience that you're talking about here, John, I want to come back to you because you bring up this notion of thorny issues, something that you've had some conversations around. What are the issues? I like your word, the thorny issues or how I frame them the roadblocks and challenges. What's keeping leadership at these financial brands up at night? What's keeping them awake right now? You know, I'm glad you called it thorny because it really is. No matter how you approach these problems, it's out a little bit, you know, and I think there's three categories that I heard about. One is just the compression on earnings, that it's real out there. You know the competition on every line item on that income statement is having some kind of pressure from the big money centers, thin text, whatever it is, and... can really feel it, and people are talking about it. The second piece is just technology that it needs to be modernized, right? You take a look at your stack of technology and you can point to a B C D E. It needs to be replaced. It's not relevant anymore. And the third pieces and this isn't is articulated as well. But it's there. You can see it in the conversation is how do we innovate at speed, right? We gotta get there fast enough with this new stuff. If I recognize there's compression, and if I recognize that the stack needs to be modernized, how do we invent something at speed? So I think those are kind of the three things. By listening carefully, they're coming out. I'm curious, Renee, and those are really great. Three points to think about. How might some of those three areas get compressed even further internally to some of the employee experience that you're talking about just before. Well, there is a lot of pressure, and our teams are needing to do more often with less and then dealing with these legacy technology issues. So this is where we definitely need to lean in, and asking the questions is a starting place. But we really need to communicate. What are we looking to accomplish? What's our purpose? What's our why why are we looking to make a change? And then, from from a corporate standpoint, having the employees part of the process to identify, where are those areas that we could magnify and really do? Really, really, really? Well, how can we infuse those memorable moments and create grand moments where we can surprise and delight the consumer or the member? And then how do we work to prioritize? You know, all of those opportunities. So again, I think it's about having continual frequent conversation with the employees. You know. Often they're the ones that are closest to the consumer. And so how do we make sure that their voices heard? And at the same time, they understand that from a corporate perspective with compressed margins and the like that we can't effectively do everything. So helping them understand gathering the information, then prioritizing and communicating that frequently is, I think, what is really necessary. There are two things that come top of mind for me when you're going through this one. It's Jim Collins in his book, Good to Great, this idea of the hedgehog focusing on one of the few things that we can be the best at and really doubling down on those areas and the number two it was. Episode 1 47. Patrick McCarthy. He's the S VP and head of North America marketing and Martek at City National Bank, and he shared with me. He went on a an internal listening tour as part of his own digital growth journey, talking to the teams across the organization to learn what's what's keeping them up at night. Very similar to what you're talking about here, John, and I'm gonna come back to your external point of view. On the flip side, we mentioned thorny issues those three points that you had downloaded here previously, but there's another side of the coin. What what our leaders most hopeful about what are the most excited about as we're going to come back to what we were talking about with Renee. What's been going well, the second l Looking ahead to the future, what is leadership most excited and hopeful about as they look towards the future for growth? I think a couple of things. One. I think everyone's made the leap that is fintech a threat or is it an opportunity as a partner? And I think it is. You know what? You could be a tremendous partner. I think the second piece that rides with that is, you know what? Why don't I invest in fin techs? Why don't I enjoy the upside? And if I'm a bank executive or credit union executive, what we can make in our investment portfolios right now, it's not a whole lot. So to put a portion of that an investment in the fintech and enjoyed the right up, that's really exciting when you kind of think about that and then specific to credit unions, the idea of the queue so right, if we...

...can reinvent that, if you know that's our superpower collaboration, what's that? New cues are going to look like, And I just came back from the cues and there was a big buzz about that, saying, What do we need now? Cousteau's where a place where We Collaborate It used to be on shared branching when it was based on locality. But if we're moving to a technical delivery, how are we going to collaborate on that? And what are those customers of the future going to look like? So I think those are some of the cool things that seem to be coming up. One thing that really kind of catches my ear is this idea of the investment portfolio investing in Fintech, and that's really the an opportunity for collaboration around that. I've had multiple conversations with institutions and organizations in the digital growth making a digital growth program. Rene, What's your take on that? How how might there be a way to transform some internal thinking about the future? I know change can be hard. Change can be scary. Change can be painful, especially for internal teams that have a different perspective. Maybe they lack clarity. They lack awareness about what's going on. They might have a high level perspective, but to actually truly commit to make that transformation. What's the best way to educate, to empower and elevate internal teams to help them overcome some of the fears that could hold them back from from capturing the opportunities that that John has shared with us? Well, I think people are discovering that partnering does make a lot of sense. I think before I'll say before the pandemic, I think there was this idea or notion in the FBI space that Fintech was evil. You know, they're coming to take over and and they're going to ruin everything, you know, banking as we know it. But actually I think the benefit of the pandemic so many institutions had to lean in and they leverage their partnerships. And there were these wonderful a ha moments where they saw Wow, you know, this can help us. So I think it's a matter of understanding your systems and what you have, What's working, where are there some gaps? You know, when I think about you know, this genie that has come out of the bottle around helping our consumers with their finances, it's this idea or notion of predictive analytics. How can I help you? James Robert work smarter? How can I become a trusted advisor to you? And so I think it's through the fintech partnering and opportunities where financial institutions could leverage that. So again, what do you want to be? Who do you want to know? What your what your purpose. What's your Why what do you want to be known for? How do you then create these brand identical moments? So the consumer, it actually helps the consumer. So that's where I think you know, that there's this wonderful opportunity, and again it's different for every financial institution it's going to, you know, to banks are going to have the same philosophy there, so it's not a matter of it already being done somewhere. But how are you going to do it? How are you going to make it yours and you break a really good point. This idea of collaboration is possibly a result of the pandemic, because before we did view the world very competitively, and I think this idea of competition creates, maybe stems from a mindset of scarcity to wear. On the flip side of that collaboration, you start to look at the world from the lens of abundance. There's enough opportunity to go around. John. I want to get your take on this. Because collaboration is sometimes a tricky word in financial services, it's easy to fall back on that competitive mindset. What recommendations would you make To a leader who's listening right now, who is still not 100% sure on collaboration? I get it. How might you be able to help guide them beyond once again? Kind of maybe the fear of the unknown or even the fear of change here to guide them towards the future? Maybe it just makes sense to have a new take on collaboration, right? What is collaboration mean today? And I'm...

...listening to Renee talk about the partnership with employees and looking at these thorny issues together rather than kind of a top down approach. You know, I almost have this vision of a leader and staff looking out the window at the world that's changing, and with covid so rapidly right and being able to say together, what do we see? And that's a big shift in culture. What do we see? And then we'll come up with options and then pick the best one and then go at it, you know. But we also come to speed by doing that to rather than you know, we have a committee and the committee talks to staff and the staff bubbles back up. You can almost just feel the dragon, how slow it is rather than I think we learned something with covid that's side by side. We looked at the window and we made calls and we moved quickly. Respond to our members. Well, that's something that we could take forward. So maybe that's the collaboration. Two point oh, piece. That's a great great great observation. Today's episode of Banking on Digital Growth is brought to you by Nimbus, who believes in creating even better financial services for all. Better access, better experiences, better value all while supporting the entire customer journey. And how do they do this? Offering end to end niche banking solutions that you can buy or build, providing accountability beyond the technology and prioritizing impactful intentional innovation instead of chasing features, ready to transform what is and create what's next? Learn more at nimbus dot com. Renee. We're going to dive deeper into this because you hit a couple points on purpose before I want to stay with this thought, though. Human ocracy is a book that I've read, and it really looks at the transformation of the organization internally. I've been speaking and teaching to this a lot over the last 18 months of like, change historically has come from the outside and driven from the top down in words where I'm looking at transformation and change must begin internally with the self, then the team and then the organization for it to truly stick. Find purpose is often a great unifying force when it comes to navigating some of this, because purpose provides a North Star beyond the present moment, something that's bigger than ourselves, something that we can rally around. What's your take on purpose here? Because you've touched on why a few times Renee and I want to dive deeper. How can purpose be a central theme and thesis for collaboration to bring together and unify not only just internal teams, but then there's also the external component because we want to make sure first and foremost were aligned internally. But then how does that then get articulated to where we're looking at Fintech partnerships that we're all unified with a common common cause. Common purpose? Yeah. Well, first of all, John, that was a great visual. Um, you know, I think we do need to rethink how we as leaders are coming to the why, and we can't do it on our on our own. And so the inclusion of the voices around us is really important. And if you don't, you run the risk of stalling failure in not a good way. Um, I think we do need to be more comfortable failing, and I think we need to help our people get there. So that's one component we need to communicate. You know, I I can tell you and some of our digital transformation in my past, some of the leaders were fearful of communicating to the teams, which just perpetuated the fear. And so it actually, it actually hindered progress. And I would still say there's opportunity to make that better. So if we don't help our teams understand the number number one issue I see is that consumers are no longer banking the way they used to. I think we all can agree on that. Okay, So what does that mean? What does it mean by channel. What does... mean? You know, where do where can we make the biggest impact? What are the tweaks that we could make to have the greatest long term impact positively for the consumer, the member as well as the organization and that includes the employee. We need to have them a part of that conversation. Otherwise we lose that perspective. So again, I think it's identified the opportunity always ensuring that you are. You have your North star. You have your purpose and then ensuring that you have the right voices, the right people in the room. As you're working through that process, That's that's a good, good point. And John, how can we take this? Okay, so we established the purpose internally. We're listening. We're collaborating internally. But then we can use that from an external alignment to then align ourselves with partners collaborators that maybe historically we viewed as competition. But hey, we're all working towards the same thing together. Why fight about this? Why don't we? That's where one plus one can now start to equal 10. It's an exponential multiplier. What's your take on purpose as also an external? Call it collaboration glue. You know, I think just give yourself a break. The stuff is really hard, I said, Thorny. You know, the other idea is that the world is changing very quickly outside, and more slowly the organization changes in response to it. Just tell our staff and our team saying, If that's the way it really is, let's just call it that. Which means, What do we get to do? Constancy of purpose, states. But reframing how we do it is going to change at a different speed. So because we're changing our tactic does not mean we got it wrong. It means we're being responsive and kind of menacing. That's maybe that when we say failure. No, no, no. We're just reframing. And now where do we need to be? And now where do we need to be? I would love to get rid of the word fail, you know, because I think it is. It's it's how do how do we adapt? Okay, If that didn't work, what else can we do? What else can we try with always looking for again that progress over perfection? Yeah, and like, we can stay on failure for a bit because It's something that comes up a lot in the conversations that I have a lot of the teaching that I do. Failure is historically it's been frowned upon. I mean, I even think about my own Children now you know, 11, 975 They come home and they're like, Ah, got to see But I'll tell you with with my oldest He's in a very unique program that for the first two months Of school in 4th grade, they went through the works of Carol Dweck and Growth Mindset and on his own. He is now coming home as a 6th grader, and he's like, I got a six out of 10, but I'm gonna do better. And he already is like self adjusting a self correcting in his own mind. I get it. We're teaching that at an earlier age now, but what can we do to bring growth mindset into an organization to maybe reframe failure to not being a negative view, but failure? It's literally probably the greatest teacher out there. What's your take on that, John? Where's the opportunities here? I love it. It sounds like your son is dropping perfectionism, which has never served anybody very well and just dealing with the world in real terms the way it is. Hey, I got six out of 10, right, and I'll get seven out of 10, right? And it's my direction. It's much trajectory where I'm going, but mostly there's a lot of energy because I'm curious and I want to learn. And that's fun, right? Versus I got the right answer. It's like, Well, that's not as satisfying. Yeah, but how do we How do we bring that type of thinking into established cultures? And because I know, for example, like the older that we get, the harder it is to learn new ways and new modalities of thinking. Because then it's like you're literally having to go back into the mind because habits are nothing more than repeatable actions, which are nothing more than formed by our thoughts. And our beliefs...

...get all tangled up into that. Maybe Renee, where's your take on this of making growth mindset part of the growth journey? Well, it has to start from the top. James, Robert and we, as leaders need to share that vulnerability. We need to talk about it frequently and often. I know with my team. If something didn't work, I would ask them. Okay, talk. Talk me through the process And and I will say, 9.9 times out of 10. They made the best decision at the time with the information that they had. So and then my next question is Did anybody die? Nobody died. So okay, we learned something. Let's move on. But to have those types of conversations are powerful and and for us to even as leaders, you know, share and talk openly about our mistakes, too. And I don't like to call the right learning. Let's call them learnings. That's that's powerful. But it has to start at the top because I will tell you it is a tough nugget to turn because you have so many frequently layers of leaders throughout the organization that are going to miss that somewhere. And they need to hear it over and over and over again. And it has to be consistent across all divisions, you know, top down, bottom up. We really need to be better at having these conversations. Do you mind? And I'm asking permission from both of you. Do you mind if we get a little bit real in this conversation here. So two things. One you you ask a great question. Renee is Is anyone dying like I've? I've used those same words before, and then I think words have power, like, What do we do at the end of every initiative project? Historically, it's called a post mortem, which I actually have transformed that we teach. We use a tool called the Digital Growth Maximize ER, which reviews what we've done to then maximize that going forward into the future. But you you talked about vulnerability here. Renee and I want to get both of your takes and we'll start with you. John. If there's one thing If you just think back over the last maybe 5, 10 years of of your leadership career, what's one lesson that you have gained that if you could do it differently, you would. Would that be John? I came too late to real time feedback, right? It's always been your quarterly review, your monthly review or your post mortem right? That instead, is it possible to keep recalibrating what we're doing almost in real time. That's de risking if you've made a misstep or if the world has changed that you can get back and adjust. So I would say it's real time feedback. Then then with that comes responsibility as leader is teach people how to do it. And we actually taught something called FBI specific behavioral impact and talk about that so that we're talking to whether we're real conversations all the time, right, because if we see it and we talk about it, we got a shot at making the adjustment, and that's kind of that's a good place to live. You know, you're just in real time adjusting to the way the world really is real time, top of mind, continuously leaning in and maybe having some uncomfortable conversations that we need to have. But it's from those uncomfortable. That's where the greatest growth can come from correct. I think about it in any kind of sport that you play isn't your coach on the sideline, and in some sports, you actually have a microphone in. Your coach is talking to you. We can lean on those environments where that real time coaching is happening to get people Mormons. It's like let's bring that into our into our businesses That's an interesting point, too, because, like coaching, I look at coaching is almost kind of like that. Next level of what I would say is is either modern day or even like future leadership. There's a great book on that subject called the Coaching Habit. Subtitle. Say less. Ask More and Transform The Way You Lead Forever. It's kind of a paraphrase of...

...the of the subtitle, but it's one that I highly recommend. Leaders go out and read, and they've come back to me. They're like, Wow, this is really giving me a whole new perspective there. Renee, what about you? Like thinking back in the last 5 to 10 years? Greatest lesson that you've learned on this journey of leadership here. Yeah, very similar to John's. So I know I have now had my Kolbe Index, so I But this was going back to Myers breaks, so I know that I am an e n f J. I'm an enthusiastic communicator. I get the mission. I'm on my horse. I got the banner and I'm going full speed ahead. Well, my blinders are that people aren't at the same space, and so I often have had Mrs there and I actually specifically asked my same to power questions that I brought up before after town halls after meeting with my team and I asked what went well, what could I have done differently? And what I hope to do is show them that I'm vulnerable. And then I'm exposing myself to that feedback and that it's okay. And the natural inclination is for the human that you're asking, that they will ask you the same question. So it I love it because I just want to make this grassroots effort of us being more open to crucial conversations and that it's not scary. So how do we de risk it? And that's just what I've chosen to do. And it has made a difference for me. You mentioned Colby and for the dear listener. Episode 1 24 provides a deep dive around this type of methodology, and and and this now brings us full circle back into the collaboration because if we're looking at collaboration, it's some stoic ancient wisdom. Know thy self. The more that we know the ice elves individually, then we can collaborate internally with teams and then externally with others. I wanna I wanna I wanna stay here on collaborating around a purpose bigger than ourselves. Financial stress. It's It's what I'm viewing as the next. We'll call it Silent Epidemic because financial stress takes an impact on physical well being. Relational, well being mental well being. And when we look at collaborating here, what what might be the greatest opportunity to collaborate around reducing, taking away, providing guidance beyond financial stress, to give people help to give people hope internally. Externally, What's your take here, John? You know, I think it's the same thing we do on the listening to her. If I can see the way things really are around me in this context, we're talking about financial wellness, and I might not be able to see them. But if a financial institution can say this is your situation, you have options ahead of you and these are the outcomes of those choices. Oh, my gosh, Thank you, right. The level of effort to do that and that sophistication if we can do that. Even in small ways, those nudges, sometimes people call them, is so important. I think it's a huge opportunity for us. Yes, yes, it really is. And it's providing that guidance, that that coaching that you're referencing before Renee, what's the opportunity here that you see to collaborate around solving kind of this larger issue I think many are talking about. But if we can create unification around it, collaborate across organizations internally, externally, what's the big opportunities here for you? Well, for me, it's How do we How do we work? Smarter, Not harder. How do we help our customer? How do we position ourselves as that trusted advisor? And is that alerts? You know it would our consumer based our members appreciate and value that? Is it providing? Seeing that they could become overdrawn and automatically providing them a facility? Is it asking them what goals, financial...

...goals that they want to achieve? And then is there some positive rewards that we could offer? You know, its financial literacy? I'm an advocate that we need to do more there. So could we offer rewards based and intuitive learning and opportunities with financial literacy? I just think there's so many different paths that financial institutions can take to enhance the experience but also help the consumer. I mean, where the where the experts on money oftentimes our consumers are not. So how do we help them? And if, If it's a no what what could we do? How can we work together to get them to it? Yes, I think it's a great opportunity, I think, to what I hear this. It connects back to something that both of y'all were sharing before. This idea of some vulnerability as well. I've I've seen a couple of institutions, particularly leadership level host workshops around tables, and they they kind of share some of their financial failures that they've made personally with account holders are with membership so that it becomes a bit more approachable, like we're all on this journey together. John, it sounds like you wanted to add a thought to that There. I just We can help our our folks kind of on two levels, the long term kind of. I would just call it knowledge and hygiene And principles. You need to know about financial services. But then we can make those connections to things that are very specific to you personally, and I'll just share with you kind of a capstone experience for me. When I was the ceo of partners, we were deepened to COVID and our field of membership was entertainment. Hospitality was really 40% of our customers. Our members were unemployed or furloughed And we were able to actually do a cash flow analysis by household and saying, Hey, you got six more months until you're gonna run into some real difficulty. Or actually, you're really good, you know, for 18 months are imminent. Right now, you've got a serious problem and reaching out to people with that kind of care saying, I'm trying to anticipate where the bouncing balls going for you and I'm in. We're going to make this work. I think that is such powerful Experience. Like I said, it was a capstone experience for me, you know, to be able to get 80,000 households back on their feet again. We learned a lot from that experience, a lot, which is just really leaning in and helping to anticipate where things are going and then take action, try stuff. It's taking that data. It's providing some insight, analysis around it and really taking a proactive stance in the relationship that we have with people to provide them with some guidance before things get bad versus being reactive and waiting till Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. And so I think that that right there is what I'm most hopeful and excited about. And and and John and Ray, this has been a fantastic conversation today. A lot of you know, great perspective, shared around collaboration both internally and externally. Here as we wrap up, gonna get really, really practical for the dear listener. Always send them away with something that they can apply something that they can do to guide them forward on their own digital growth journey. Because all change begins with a small, simple step. And what would that be when we're thinking about collaboration internally and externally, John, what's the practical next? Best step that they can take going forward something small to help them build their courage to commit, to move forward with confidence, I think Create your own listening to her on your calendar. There should be two meetings with people who you do not know. You do not know their discipline. You're not really sure about what's important to them and just be curious and go talk with people that are in a different lane than you are experiencing something different than you would be important creature on listening tour. Is that a weekly monthly quarterly? Like what would be a cadence there? I would have at least two half hour conversations that are gonna be you're gonna curate and you're gonna put on your calendar. When I was the CEO of partners, I had one every day, one hour of listening every day, internally or externally, to the...

...organization. I must listen to understand things really are beautiful. And I think, too, and I'm just going to go out on a limb on this one. Maybe there's an opportunity there for a podcast, too now, because you can almost turn this into some content to where you're listening and learning and collaborating and creating together. Think, for example, small business, right? Imagine if, like, the CEO of a financial institution started a podcast to just ask really good questions and it becomes a research component. It becomes a learning component, it becomes a marketing content component, and then we're all really kind of like collaborating and great. I love it because it follows another thing. I just try to remind myself it doesn't matter what I know. It's what we know that matters. So that podcast idea that would be a way to broadcast the learning and the understanding. I love it in the room with Tod Marks Berry. I think he's doing some of that already on his podcast. So there'll be a really fascinating thing to see if we can maybe encourage and elevate others to do more scale because it is a knowledge transfer back and forth. Renee, what about you? Something practical, something small that the dear listener can move forward with confidence here. I like the idea of creating an innovation conversation. You know, what else could we be doing so often? We're in our lanes or channels, and that's what we know. But what else is possible, or how could we re imagine it or what? 1 to 2 to three things could we change to become more efficient with what we do. So it's again keeping in mind that you know what, Switch your North star. What are your priorities and how does that conversation fit into what your goals are? Your strategic plan would be, but I like the idea of looking on the horizon around the corner for what's possible listening tour to innovation conversation. I think we might be onto something to put some some guy drills around this because I'm telling you, it's so so many great ideas have come out of these conversations that actually get practically applied. So this is one that I want to keep. Keep coming back on and maybe we can dialogue around this further. This has been a great conversation collaborating with you to today. For someone who wants to continue the conversation, what's the best way for them to reach out and say hello? Renee, What's the best way for them to say hello to you? LinkedIn works. LinkedIn Google her Google her on LinkedIn Google Renee Newman Connect with Renee Learn. Learn with Renee. Collaborate with Renee John, What about you? Nimbus dot com All of our information is there of our leadership team. You got it. You got to connect with John Learned from John. Collaborate with John. Thank you both. There's been a lot of fun connecting, collaborating, having some good conversations with you both on another episode of banking on digital growth. Thanks, James. Robert. Always good to see you too, John. Rene. Good to see you, James. Robert thank you, as always, nice conversation and, as always, and until next time be well, do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of Banking on Digital Growth with James Robert Ley brought to you by Nimbus, who is on a mission to bring the people process and technology together to create new routes to growth for financial brands and enable them to deliver outcomes. To learn more about how you can collaborate with Nimbus. To maximize your future digital growth potential, visit www dot nimbus dot com until next time, be well and do good.

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