Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 10 months ago

140) #ExponentialInsights: Are You Prepared for a Techno-Socialist Future?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The way we work is changing.

It’s not just the pandemic — the economic world is transforming.

Whether that change is good or bad depends on whether we can adapt the system to embrace the future or let the future be guided by fear and uncertainty.

For Brett King, Founder, Executive Chairman at Moven and Author of The Rise of Techno-Socialism, the way we need to adapt this system is clear.

In this episode, we discuss:

- Why Techno-Socialism is the best path for a better, brighter future

- The costs of techno-unemployment

- Why corporate citizenship is as important a metric as corporate viability.

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

I sort of had this epiphany but the realization that this economic uncertainty that we face at the moment because of the pandemic is actually just going to get a lot worse over the next 20-30 years. And so that uncertainty is really bad for society. Mhm mm. Yeah, You're listening to banking on digital growth. With James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brand marketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growth potential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews the industry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practical wisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the show greetings and hello I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 140th episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the exponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome back bret King to the show, Bread is a good friend in early guest, going all the way back to episode # five and he's also a world renowned futurist and speaker and international best selling author. And Brett actually has the most number one bestselling titles in banking and fintech globally more than any other author in the last decade. He's getting ready to launch his latest book, the rise of techno socialism, how inequality ai and climate will usher in a new world, Welcome back to the show bread. It is so good to have you on today buddy. Good to be back on Jr thanks for having me, you know, we were talking about all these books, number one best selling author with most titles in banking and Fintech globally over the last decade. How many books is this now? This is technically booked number seven. Although book number two, which is called Branch Today Gone Tomorrow only was in a limited print ranks. Was designed to be in a book. Yeah, but yeah, so six hardcovers and one soft cover. But yeah, you've got a head start on me. But uh, we want a little friendly competition. I'm gonna I'm gonna be coming up like, well, I'm happy to assist in any way I can No, I'm giving you a hard time, man. You've you've given me you've given me put in the work you definitely have. So book to for me is right right, right now, about to get started, which will be out a year later. But let's talk about your book here, because that's why that's why you're here. I think that's what people want to learn about Two is when you when you look at this and just the title of the book, why the title? Uh, it's a bit provoking. I guess you could say it is absolutely provocative. Yes, I like it always like things that will get people talking, get people thinking so why did you choose the title? So,...

...the title is the rise of techno socialism. We debated a ton of different titles around this. Obviously the word socialism is divisive for some people. And, you know, the book is not particularly political, but the changes that we're talking about, which talks about really a philosophical shift for humanity. The fact that we have to finally work together as a species, that national borders won't matter, the political stances won't matter. None of that will matter in the end that we just have to get our act into gear as a species and work together that, you know, what do you call that? Well, it is working for the collective, Good collectivism Humanism, but none of those really are inspirational titles. Two titles for someone to grab a book off the wall. Techno collectivism. Okay, Techno Humanism, neo capitalism, you know? Well, none of those things really say, you've got to read this and, you know, there's there's big issues ahead. And so, you know, it is about political change, but it's not a political book, does this sort of agnostic lee It talks about the choices we have in terms of politics, economics, and social cohesion, and it talks a lot about policy, but it's not advocating socialism in in the classical sense, it's really advocating a different world view and a different philosophy for humanity, but ultimately, we chose the title to get people to say, what's that about and grab it off the bookshelf, Right, Which is in fact, my follow up question, what is techno socialism? And I like that because it could have been, you know, techno collectivism, techno humanism and no, it's what is techno socialism at its core? So to understand techno socialism where it fits in, we actually look at four different paths for humanity in the book. And so we plot these on a quadrant, the magic quadrant, and that is inclusive or collective policies and actions versus exclusionary or individualism. And then on the other quadrant, we have chaotic futures vs. Planned futures, or what you might call dystopian and utopian. Um you know, if you're into those sort of classifications and there are those four parameters are where there's a broad rejection of artificial intelligence and technology and science, which you can see as possible today. It's not, there are parts of society rejecting science, you then have failed states, or we call those two sets of outcomes ladder stand and failed to stand, and then you have the exclusive exclusionary use of technology that accentuates the inequality that we see...

...today. So we call that neo feudalism largely driven by corporate is who own more and more of public policy. And then you have techno socialism in the top right, so techno socialism is collective and its planned future, you know, because we don't believe you can get to an optimal future unless it's unless it's planned. We say they basically take no socialism is the optimal outcome, yep. So we've got inclusive exclusive, chaotic planned as kind of the guide the path through through this journey here, right? Why this book? Why now? Like like go back when you started writing this and maybe from the time you started writing it, what have you seen transform as well through the journey? Well, You know, um I wrote a book in 2015 called Augmented Life in the Smart Lane and that really was a book that took us through a journey individually. How we'll live in this world with all of these new technologies and capabilities are available to us, you know, with living with robots, living with gene therapy, living with life extension capabilities, all of this sort of thing. Yeah. But the thing I realized at the end of writing that book was I didn't really talk about how I talked about how we might adapt to these changes individually, but I didn't really talk about how society would adapt beyond, you know, looking at the way smart cities would work and things like that. I didn't look at the politics of it or the economics of it. And of course having seen now the pandemic and the corona coronavirus effect and even before that seeing inequality getting worse through the previous financial crisis and so forth. You know, seeing the U. S. Have the worst inequality in modern history then understanding the impact of ai and that could have on jobs. Um and climate change on top of that. I sort of had this not epiphany but the realization that this economic uncertainty that we face at the moment because of the pandemic Is actually just going to get a lot worse over the next 20-30 years. And so that uncertainty is really bad for society. It's chronically bad. And so the question was, how do we address that uncertainty? How do we give people confidence and optimism in the future rather than the current situation we have? I'm glad that's the point that you're addressing, because I even go back into my mind kind of the beginning of this pandemic and then looking at the macro level reading in between the Tea leaves This pandemic has been a warmup of swords for the major transformations we're going to experience in the next 3-5 to 10 years. Some are very exciting and can be very like you said, give a lot of hope. Some can be a little bit frightening too. Let's take this into the banking space here just a bit because you mentioned this this idea of just economic transformation. What are some of the...

...transformations that you're seeing that, you know, if you're in the banking space, the Fintech space, what do you need to be aware of here? Well, you know, the biggest one is artificial intelligence and that's really about the fact that most of the jobs that we have in banks today will disappear through automation at least half of the jobs. And so there's, you know, banking, like many other industries has a large potential for techno unemployment banking um to some extent Has even greater potential for that because it's been fairly resistant to change over the last 2-3 decades, which is ironic because banks were actually amongst the first organizations or corporations to use large scale computing, so you think of them as technology oriented entities. The second piece, apart from the technology piece is regulation, changes in regulation, this becoming significantly more global in its focus, particularly around financial crime prevention, money laundering or anti money laundering and so forth. And then the third area is S. G. Sustainability and you know, being a good corporate citizen. So these uh you know, this this is even without us talking about fintech and um you know, the impact that that is having on the global stage, you know, and and the way it's sort of reframing the banking industry per se. So I guess you could say there's there's those four elements. When you look at this idea, let's come back to a I we were going to have job displacement here, what can we do to prepare for that? And might there be new job creation as well, new thinking capabilities needed to to leverage the automation to leverage the ai Yeah, absolutely, it's a great question. Um you know, so for the internet as an example for every job that the internet destroyed and you know, e commerce obviously changed retail and so forth for every job that destroyed. It created 1.6 new jobs. And this is coming from Mackenzie research, you know through through the dot com. Um And so that's that's a good sign. Um And we do know that there are going to be new jobs created from the the Ai side. Um You know we're gonna see a lot of jobs created in robotics, we are going to see um in sort of the deep learning machine learning l go space, data scientists. You know there's in fact we already have a labor labor shortage in those areas that labor shortage is going to continue for the next couple of decades because we're not training our kids at school for those jobs. So that's why we have a shortage today, that's why we'll have a shortage tomorrow with the education system is not matched to that demand facts. The impact of techno unemployment is going to be more akin...

...to the change that we went through moving into the Industrial Revolution than it would be something like the dot com era or the tronics boom of the 19 sixties. So it's a change in the way we work. Think about pre industrial revolution, you know most of like 60 70% of the U. S. Workforce was involved in agriculture correctly. Um And today that's 1.6% of the U. S. Workforce. We had other industries like the textiles industry in Britain which was huge but people really didn't work in factories apart from in the textiles space. So the whole movement of creating factories, the industrialization of cities and all of that. That was a huge macro lifestyle change for humanity in respect to the role workplace. The same thing is going to happen with both artificial intelligence and climate change. And so it's really changing the way we think of work, changing the way we think of economics at its core and the way that plays its role in society. It's a lot of change we're all experiencing we've experienced over the last 18 months maybe we could even say there's some type of a fatigue that's kind of getting tied into this as well. What can the dear listener due to really prepare their mind more than anything to just be open. I know you talkin river and a lot about first principles thinking really be open towards creating a new future, letting go over the past to create the new. Well the I think the main thing here is adaptability Is not sort of hanging onto your preconceived notions. Yeah. You know I have this trailer for the book and I say that 21st century is going to be the most disruptive period humanity has ever lived through and will challenge our most sacred ideologies and that's really very core like So let's just take high level automation. We can have the immediate effect of that as we start rolling out our official intelligence over the next 10-15 years. So certainly by 2035, we see that's where sort of Ai disruption will peak. But then play that out another 50 years in terms of the continual development of artificial intelligence and we won't need to work right. Most people won't need to work. You certainly won't have work associated with your living costs. There will be no correlation between the work that you do and whether or not you you have a roof over your head or you get fed. That is a massive change in ideology so much today. We attach to whether you work hard or whether you're smart enough to get the right job or whether you've had the right education. None of that is going to matter in the future in terms of work because so that's that's a big change. Technology...

...has transformed our world and digital has changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now, consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if they walk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to grow loans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustrating and overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, but it doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you every step of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digital growth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digital growth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transform financial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights you can start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits. Now back to the show, that's a great point about attachment theory. We do attach our value are worth to the quote unquote, the work that we do. And even when looking at, you know, the coaching that I've done over the last 5 to 10 years, it's hard to let go of that because no, that's my value, that's how I and and so that's a huge mental like shift to make right there, let's move over to the other side of the equation because we talked to a I then we got regulation and then we've got E. S. G. You know, from what I'm seeing, like what aspiration is doing around this idea, really bringing environmental cause to the forefront. When you look at this this idea of climate, impacting the banking space, what should we be aware of and be thinking about their so today we look at the performance of corporations like banks in respect to their economic performance, you know what's there are oe you know, what's their net earnings, you know, you know, what multiple are they trading at, You know, all of these elements that you know are fairly normal in the stock market to evaluate however, you know, we're starting to see incorporation of new metrics in assessing not the viability of corporations necessarily. But looks at whether they're using sustainable materials if they're if they're producing goods and services. It also looks at things like whether or not from a social policy perspective these corporations are doing the right thing. So you put all of this together and over the next few years there's going to be a lot of corporations that are really going to find a ton of social pressure because of poor policies. For example, banks who invest in fossil fuel corporations or banks and invest in coal mines. So we've seen in the UK just in the last month or so, naked protesters at the front of barclays and...

HsBc protesting their support for fossil fuels. This sort of thing is obviously going to get more and more acute as time goes on and as the impact of the changes to the climate become become more real to everybody. And so I think coming out the other side of this, what we have is a bunch of metrics around what makes you a good corporation that extend well beyond profitability and you know, you're a share price and this is something that I've started to talk about with financial brands. It's really developing an M. V. P. And not being a minimal viable product but really the conversation has been so focused on mission, it's been focused on vision. But then we bring the P. N. And that's purpose purpose beyond just the internal shareholder. But then you're getting into the triple bottom line people profit planet kind of a thing. You then you're also taking care of your suppliers and and it really is a much larger play at stake. Even on the environmental side was working with a financial brand out of the Northwest two weeks ago and they were looking at making an early play. This is a community institution, looking at making a national play on the solar side of things solar lending. And they know that their early on in the game but they were like yeah fossil fuels. This idea of an oil economy is one that's dwindling. They know they might be a little bit early to the market at a macro level. But I think they want to be at the precipice of that wave and and and write it look I think you know that I think that's great that they're doing that. And I think those sort of things become increasingly important and there's going to be organizations that are made or or broken as a result of sort of this philosophical approach to this thing. Uh you know I I think the one area that is uh is going to be super interesting through throughout this process is um we do have to think about the economy very differently in the future because of a I am because of climate, we have to ask the question, what is the economy for? And there's there's two potential answers to that. One is it creates economic growth, it creates GDP growth, it creates jobs, it creates trade, you know, this is the economists view of the economy, but on the other hand, the other view is, well, the economy should look after the needs of its citizens, it should make its citizens happy and healthy. So on the on the former the U. S. Is one of the most successful economies the world has ever seen on the ladder. It's a demonstrable failure because of inequality in the gap between rich and poor. And so we have to start to bring those two worlds together and say the economy has to work for its people and also generate economic activity. And so how do we prioritize those two things better than we do currently in sort of the model we have today thinking about like all of the chaos and coming back to your quadrant here, the chaotic...

...piece of this, what should be keeping a financial brand leader up at night? What should they be thinking about and renew, renew, berating on here? I think, you know, it's really what's the role of the business that you have and um you know, can you hand on heart say that not only you an efficient business, you're generating returns and so forth. But are you are you actively trying to do something that's socially good? Because I think ultimately if you have a social lens on what you do, whether that's financial inclusion or whether that is not polluting the planet, you know, if you start to build your business that way, you do have to think quite differently about the business, it's no longer just it doesn't matter as long as we're generating return, everyone's going to be fine. Right? And so you have to I think be a little smarter about the way you build your business in this world. You know, something that you talked to him before about the economy is you know, being healthy, being happy. Where might we be able to start having more conversations around the correlation between a person's financial, well being, physical, well being, financial, well being mental, well being. What are your thoughts on that? Well, you know, we can see that in terms of the economic pressure that we've faced over the last few years. And this is even before the pandemic occurred, obviously we've seen the statistics that the U. S. Billionaires accumulated more than a trillion dollars during the pandemic. The world's trillion ares surpassed 10 trillion. Sorry, the world's billionaires to pass $10 trillion dollars for the first time. Um you know, and so the you know, the top 1% richest in the US-owned more than the bottom, 90%. You know we've seen these statistics. But even prior to the pandemic that those economic pressures were very clear upon the world because of the changes already taking place because of the inequality that's already there, the homelessness and so forth. So when you when you look at that as a as a factor you see it expressed in society through protests and the like so the number of protests in the 1st 20 years of this century were 200% greater in terms of volume of protests. And we've seen in the last 50 years of the 20th century but participation rates rose By 10 fold 1,000%. And you see that happening all around the world, this is not just happening, you know, as you know, uh as a result of like you know the election protests or protests against trump. We're talking about protests of all sorts of different causes, dissatisfaction with the government, you know, concerned about climate change et cetera. And so when you have this level of dissatisfaction or discontent, The system will break...

...historically. That's what we found. And so either will and Ariel Durant who wrote lessons from history back in the 60s when they studied all of these revolutions and so forth in the past and governmental systems. They said there's two ways this ends either redistribution of wealth through legislation or revolution and um that's the inflection point we're coming to in society and if you go back and you study, the for example, american revolution, you study the civil war, the french revolution. It was going through these, these economic transformational periods from like you said, agricultural too industrial to now technological to now techno. So I mean really it's just to go back and you study history, there's nothing new under the sun as ancient wisdom says, Let's give the dear listeners some hope, right? It's, it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. There is land. What do you, what is that? What are you most hopeful about? What could the dear listen will be most helpful about looking ahead, coming out the other side of this, humanity is going to enjoy a period of abundance and prosperity that simply isn't possible with the current system and something that is sustainable for the entire planet, right? That's the end game. So a new renaissance, a new golden age, Yes. Your golden age, no one will ever have to worry about putting a roof over their head or putting food in their belly, you know, and the work that we do will be full of purpose, like you said before is when you work in the future, you'll choose to do something that you're passionate about that you think can make a difference rather than that you have to put food on the table. So one of the big one of the biggest employers over the next century will be climate mitigation extracting carbon from the atmosphere building seawall defenses around new york and Miami to stop it from getting flooded, making our infrastructure resilient to extreme weather events. I mean, retooling the energy grids that we have to work off renewables and do battery storage. We're talking about hundreds of millions of people employed in these industries. Just by early next decade, we'll Look at what Peter Diamandis and Elon Musk are teaming up with the new x prize $100 million dollars to pull carbon out of the air and actually do something with that. It is, it really is an exciting time in the banking space. The biggest roadblocks that we just need to be aware of that could prevent us from moving forward down this path to what I have always said to create a bigger, better, brighter future for those that are in the communities that we're serving, what's the big road blocks that we just need to be aware of because I think it's awareness, all transformation and growth begins with one thing, telling the truth about where you've been, where you're at, where you could grow next. What's the awareness that we need to bring to the table, really had a senior leadership level, then bring that throughout the organization. Well, one thing that's become clear during...

...the pandemic is, you know, I think the banks actually don't help you financially when it comes to wellness. Banks don't help you save. Now. Banks will say, well, yes, we do. We provide savings accounts for people that's not helping people safe. You know, you have to change the role that money has in people's lives and get them to think about that differently or use that resource differently to get a different result. And so banks have really not done that. In fact, the products that we have the credit cards, you know, the cash back, the airline miles or rewards, You know, you look at that, we've we've been stimulated to spend money rather than save money over the sense of creation of the credit card product at least. And so when it comes to the immediate impact of the pandemic, we're going to see a lot more focused on financial well being, financial health and helping people manage their money. So the battle of the smart bank accounts is coming and while it's right now winning that, if you look at that on a global basis, more people today use mobile wallets day to day for discretionary spending than they do a plastic card that shift already has taken place over the last couple of years, even before the pandemic, which accelerated it. So if you're in banking today and you want people to use your bank account and have access to the products and features that you have of that, you must have at its core, the ability to help people manage their money. That's that's what the purpose of the bank account should be. Yes. And by, you know, I've always said, if you can transform a person's wallet, you can transform their physical well being, their mental well being. They're all interconnected, definitely correlation. And a lot of that honestly starts with the relationship that the individual has with money in and of itself. And if we can bring to bear once again awareness to a person's individual spending behaviors, then we can also help them, you know, create reinforce positive savings behaviors. Where do we get started? I would like to end on a very practical perspective. It's been a great conversation because all change. All transformation begins with that small, simple step first that goes to the next to the next the next. What's your recommendation on where the dear listener could get started as we look to move forward into this, into this new future. Here go to www rise of techno socialism dot com or wherever good books are sold now. Um I think as a thought exercise, you know, or in terms of getting yourself prepared for this future, I think just just imagine a world that would give you the freedom to pursue something that you feel really passionately passionately about. And so, um what is it that if money was no object and you could spend the rest of your life doing this, what would give you the most satisfaction and at the same time, be something that would be really useful for the citizens...

...around you and the planet as a whole. Um and start imagining that life because that life is possible with the future that were emerging into. And I would have built upon that thought, that's a great thought exercise. This is one that I learned from dan Sullivan. It's called the because you mentioned life extension before. Like, you know, imagine the year that you're gonna die 85 Okay. And then imagine with all of the advances that we're going to see over the next 10, 15, 20 years. Okay, what are we gonna get? Maybe an extra 30? An extra four? And these are quality years. Exactly. And then you subtract, let's just say 125-85 bill Shatner 90 going into space. Yeah, you get an extra 40 years With that extra 40 years, write down everything that you'd like to do and then why are you waiting start doing some of this stuff now? Because I think that's going to give you that purpose, that energy to fuel fill you further farther faster. You're right. I mean William Shatner going into space? I mean space the final frontier and these are the Voyages. We actually have a quote from Aubrey De Gray in there. Aubrey de Gray is one of the leading scientists that looks at self's innocence. And um you know, longevity and he says that we will reach escape longevity by 2036. And so a lot is going to be happening next next decade. So escape longevity means where we will be able to stop the aging process, You won't be getting any older. It doesn't mean you'll be getting younger necessarily, but that's the first thing, let's just stop us, stop ourselves. Get that's not far away. We're talking about a controversial subject, aging is a disease, but it can be treated like a disease as well. You know, we're talking about the roughly the same timeframe from when the iphone first came out to when we're going to stop aging. You know, it's like it's mind blowing. It really, it really is. I'm excited. Like, you know, the world that we're getting to create together, it is a world that I am truly hopeful for. Um I think about my four kids and really what they are going to get to experience, I'm even probably more hopeful for them. It really is, it really is. You mentioned the book before. Um what's the best way that someone can grab a copy? Well then they can go to the website Rise of techno socialism dot com. There's the trailer there there is linked to the different booksellers, of course it is listed on amazon dot com and Barnes and noble dot com. You know, if you can go and preorder that prior to the release state, middle of next month. That'll be hugely helpful for us because we're getting very close to our goal of getting this book listed on the new york times and every book that's pre order. It helps us uh towards that because the first week they ship all that volume gets counted And we should be releasing this right before the that time period. So what is that? That specific release? Just one Contest is the global release date November 21. Yeah, so the dear listener, please do go grab a copy, let's get this in the new york times bestseller. It's an...

...important read. It's the one that I'm excited about and don't forget to tune into Brett's podcast to keep learning from him. Breaking banks a lot of good stuff over there bret as always. Thanks for joining me man, It's been a fun conversation today. Fantastic. Jr thank you and keep growing keep moving forward as always and until next time be well. Do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to another episode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley like what you hear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast, google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to get even more practical improvement insights visit www dot digital growth dot com to grab a preview of James roberts. Bestselling book banking on digital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazon inside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framed around 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10 times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good. Yeah.

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