Banking on Digital Growth
Banking on Digital Growth

Episode · 2 months ago

140) #ExponentialInsights: Are You Prepared for a Techno-Socialist Future?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The way we work is changing.

It’s not just the pandemic — the economic world is transforming.

Whether that change is good or bad depends on whether we can adapt the system to embrace the future or let the future be guided by fear and uncertainty.

For Brett King, Founder, Executive Chairman at Moven and Author of The Rise of Techno-Socialism, the way we need to adapt this system is clear.

In this episode, we discuss:

- Why Techno-Socialism is the best path for a better, brighter future

- The costs of techno-unemployment

- Why corporate citizenship is as important a metric as corporate viability.

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Banking on Digital Growth on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Banking on Digital Growth in your favorite podcast player.

I sort of had this epiphany but therealization that this economic uncertainty that we face at the momentbecause of the pandemic is actually just going to get a lot worse over thenext 20-30 years. And so that uncertainty is really bad for society.Mhm mm. Yeah, You're listening to banking ondigital growth. With James Robert lay a podcast that empowers financial brandmarketing, sales and leadership teams to maximize their digital growthpotential by generating 10 times more loans and deposits. Today's episode ispart of the exponential insight series where James robert interviews theindustry's top marketing sales and fintech leaders, sharing practicalwisdom to exponentially elevate you and your team. Let's get into the showgreetings and hello I am James robert, ley and welcome to the 140th episode ofthe Banking on Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of theexponential insight series and I'm excited to welcome back bret King tothe show, Bread is a good friend in early guest, going all the way back toepisode # five and he's also a world renowned futurist and speaker andinternational best selling author. And Brett actually has the most number onebestselling titles in banking and fintech globally more than any otherauthor in the last decade. He's getting ready to launch his latest book, therise of techno socialism, how inequality ai and climate will usher ina new world, Welcome back to the show bread. It is so good to have you ontoday buddy. Good to be back on Jr thanks for having me, you know, we weretalking about all these books, number one best selling author with mosttitles in banking and Fintech globally over the last decade. How many books isthis now? This is technically booked number seven. Although book number two,which is called Branch Today Gone Tomorrow only was in a limited printranks. Was designed to be in a book. Yeah, but yeah, so six hardcovers andone soft cover. But yeah, you've got a head start on me. But uh, we want alittle friendly competition. I'm gonna I'm gonna be coming up like, well, I'mhappy to assist in any way I can No, I'm giving you a hard time, man. You'veyou've given me you've given me put in the work you definitely have. So bookto for me is right right, right now, about to get started, which will be outa year later. But let's talk about your book here, because that's why that'swhy you're here. I think that's what people want to learn about Two is whenyou when you look at this and just the title of the book, why the title? Uh,it's a bit provoking. I guess you could say it is absolutely provocative. Yes,I like it always like things that will get people talking, get people thinkingso why did you choose the title? So,...

...the title is the rise of technosocialism. We debated a ton of different titles around this. Obviouslythe word socialism is divisive for some people. And, you know, the book is notparticularly political, but the changes that we're talking about, which talksabout really a philosophical shift for humanity. The fact that we have tofinally work together as a species, that national borders won't matter, thepolitical stances won't matter. None of that will matter in the end that wejust have to get our act into gear as a species and work together that, youknow, what do you call that? Well, it is working for the collective, Goodcollectivism Humanism, but none of those really are inspirational titles.Two titles for someone to grab a book off the wall. Techno collectivism. Okay,Techno Humanism, neo capitalism, you know? Well, none of those things reallysay, you've got to read this and, you know, there's there's big issues ahead.And so, you know, it is about political change, but it's not a political book,does this sort of agnostic lee It talks about the choices we have in terms ofpolitics, economics, and social cohesion, and it talks a lot aboutpolicy, but it's not advocating socialism in in the classical sense,it's really advocating a different world view and a different philosophyfor humanity, but ultimately, we chose the title to get people to say, what'sthat about and grab it off the bookshelf, Right, Which is in fact, myfollow up question, what is techno socialism? And I like that because itcould have been, you know, techno collectivism, techno humanism and no,it's what is techno socialism at its core? So to understand techno socialismwhere it fits in, we actually look at four different paths for humanity inthe book. And so we plot these on a quadrant, the magic quadrant, and thatis inclusive or collective policies and actions versus exclusionary orindividualism. And then on the other quadrant, we have chaotic futures vs.Planned futures, or what you might call dystopian and utopian. Um you know, ifyou're into those sort of classifications and there are thosefour parameters are where there's a broad rejection of artificialintelligence and technology and science, which you can see as possible today.It's not, there are parts of society rejecting science, you then have failedstates, or we call those two sets of outcomes ladder stand and failed tostand, and then you have the exclusive exclusionary use of technology thataccentuates the inequality that we see...

...today. So we call that neo feudalismlargely driven by corporate is who own more and more of public policy. Andthen you have techno socialism in the top right, so techno socialism iscollective and its planned future, you know, because we don't believe you canget to an optimal future unless it's unless it's planned. We say theybasically take no socialism is the optimal outcome, yep. So we've gotinclusive exclusive, chaotic planned as kind of the guide the path throughthrough this journey here, right? Why this book? Why now? Like like go backwhen you started writing this and maybe from the time you started writing it,what have you seen transform as well through the journey? Well, You know, umI wrote a book in 2015 called Augmented Life in the Smart Lane and that reallywas a book that took us through a journey individually. How we'll live inthis world with all of these new technologies and capabilities areavailable to us, you know, with living with robots, living with gene therapy,living with life extension capabilities, all of this sort of thing. Yeah. Butthe thing I realized at the end of writing that book was I didn't reallytalk about how I talked about how we might adapt to these changesindividually, but I didn't really talk about how society would adapt beyond,you know, looking at the way smart cities would work and things like that.I didn't look at the politics of it or the economics of it. And of coursehaving seen now the pandemic and the corona coronavirus effect and evenbefore that seeing inequality getting worse through the previous financialcrisis and so forth. You know, seeing the U. S. Have the worst inequality inmodern history then understanding the impact of ai and that could have onjobs. Um and climate change on top of that. I sort of had this not epiphanybut the realization that this economic uncertainty that we face at the momentbecause of the pandemic Is actually just going to get a lot worse over thenext 20-30 years. And so that uncertainty is really bad for society.It's chronically bad. And so the question was, how do we address thatuncertainty? How do we give people confidence and optimism in the futurerather than the current situation we have? I'm glad that's the point thatyou're addressing, because I even go back into my mind kind of the beginningof this pandemic and then looking at the macro level reading in between theTea leaves This pandemic has been a warmup of swords for the majortransformations we're going to experience in the next 3-5 to 10 years.Some are very exciting and can be very like you said, give a lot of hope. Somecan be a little bit frightening too. Let's take this into the banking spacehere just a bit because you mentioned this this idea of just economictransformation. What are some of the...

...transformations that you're seeing that,you know, if you're in the banking space, the Fintech space, what do youneed to be aware of here? Well, you know, the biggest one is artificialintelligence and that's really about the fact that most of the jobs that wehave in banks today will disappear through automation at least half of thejobs. And so there's, you know, banking, like many other industries has a largepotential for techno unemployment banking um to some extent Has evengreater potential for that because it's been fairly resistant to change overthe last 2-3 decades, which is ironic because banks were actually amongst thefirst organizations or corporations to use large scale computing, so you thinkof them as technology oriented entities. The second piece, apart from thetechnology piece is regulation, changes in regulation, this becomingsignificantly more global in its focus, particularly around financial crimeprevention, money laundering or anti money laundering and so forth. And thenthe third area is S. G. Sustainability and you know, being a good corporatecitizen. So these uh you know, this this is even without us talking aboutfintech and um you know, the impact that that is having on the global stage,you know, and and the way it's sort of reframing the banking industry per se.So I guess you could say there's there's those four elements. When youlook at this idea, let's come back to a I we were going to have jobdisplacement here, what can we do to prepare for that? And might there benew job creation as well, new thinking capabilities needed to to leverage theautomation to leverage the ai Yeah, absolutely, it's a great question. Umyou know, so for the internet as an example for every job that the internetdestroyed and you know, e commerce obviously changed retail and so forthfor every job that destroyed. It created 1.6 new jobs. And this iscoming from Mackenzie research, you know through through the dot com. UmAnd so that's that's a good sign. Um And we do know that there are going tobe new jobs created from the the Ai side. Um You know we're gonna see a lotof jobs created in robotics, we are going to see um in sort of the deeplearning machine learning l go space, data scientists. You know there's infact we already have a labor labor shortage in those areas that laborshortage is going to continue for the next couple of decades because we'renot training our kids at school for those jobs. So that's why we have ashortage today, that's why we'll have a shortage tomorrow with the educationsystem is not matched to that demand facts. The impact of technounemployment is going to be more akin...

...to the change that we went throughmoving into the Industrial Revolution than it would be something like the dotcom era or the tronics boom of the 19 sixties. So it's a change in the way wework. Think about pre industrial revolution, you know most of like 6070% of the U. S. Workforce was involved in agriculture correctly. Um And todaythat's 1.6% of the U. S. Workforce. We had other industries like the textilesindustry in Britain which was huge but people really didn't work in factoriesapart from in the textiles space. So the whole movement of creatingfactories, the industrialization of cities and all of that. That was a hugemacro lifestyle change for humanity in respect to the role workplace. The samething is going to happen with both artificial intelligence and climatechange. And so it's really changing the way we think of work, changing the waywe think of economics at its core and the way that plays its role in society.It's a lot of change we're all experiencing we've experienced over thelast 18 months maybe we could even say there's some type of a fatigue that'skind of getting tied into this as well. What can the dear listener due toreally prepare their mind more than anything to just be open. I know youtalkin river and a lot about first principles thinking really be opentowards creating a new future, letting go over the past to create the new.Well the I think the main thing here is adaptability Is not sort of hangingonto your preconceived notions. Yeah. You know I have this trailer for thebook and I say that 21st century is going to be the most disruptive periodhumanity has ever lived through and will challenge our most sacredideologies and that's really very core like So let's just take high levelautomation. We can have the immediate effect of that as we start rolling outour official intelligence over the next 10-15 years. So certainly by 2035, wesee that's where sort of Ai disruption will peak. But then play that outanother 50 years in terms of the continual development of artificialintelligence and we won't need to work right. Most people won't need to work.You certainly won't have work associated with your living costs.There will be no correlation between the work that you do and whether or notyou you have a roof over your head or you get fed. That is a massive changein ideology so much today. We attach to whether you work hard or whether you'resmart enough to get the right job or whether you've had the right education.None of that is going to matter in the future in terms of work because sothat's that's a big change. Technology...

...has transformed our world and digitalhas changed the way consumers shop for and buy financial services forever. Now,consumers make purchase decisions long before they walk into a branch if theywalk into a branch at all, but your financial brand still wants to growloans and deposits. We get it. Digital growth can feel confusing, frustratingand overwhelming for any financial brand, marketing and sales leader, butit doesn't have to because James robert wrote the book that guides you everystep of the way along your digital growth journey, visit www dot digitalgrowth dot com to get a preview of his best selling book banking on digitalgrowth or order a copy right now for you and your team from amazon insideyou'll find a strategic marketing manifesto that was written to transformfinancial brands and it is packed full of practical and proven insights youcan start using today to confidently generate 10 times more loans anddeposits. Now back to the show, that's a great point about attachment theory.We do attach our value are worth to the quote unquote, the work that we do. Andeven when looking at, you know, the coaching that I've done over the last 5to 10 years, it's hard to let go of that because no, that's my value,that's how I and and so that's a huge mental like shift to make right there,let's move over to the other side of the equation because we talked to a Ithen we got regulation and then we've got E. S. G. You know, from what I'mseeing, like what aspiration is doing around this idea, really bringingenvironmental cause to the forefront. When you look at this this idea ofclimate, impacting the banking space, what should we be aware of and bethinking about their so today we look at the performance of corporations likebanks in respect to their economic performance, you know what's there areoe you know, what's their net earnings, you know, you know, what multiple arethey trading at, You know, all of these elements that you know are fairlynormal in the stock market to evaluate however, you know, we're starting tosee incorporation of new metrics in assessing not the viability ofcorporations necessarily. But looks at whether they're using sustainablematerials if they're if they're producing goods and services. It alsolooks at things like whether or not from a social policy perspective thesecorporations are doing the right thing. So you put all of this together andover the next few years there's going to be a lot of corporations that arereally going to find a ton of social pressure because of poor policies. Forexample, banks who invest in fossil fuel corporations or banks and investin coal mines. So we've seen in the UK just in the last month or so, nakedprotesters at the front of barclays and...

HsBc protesting their support forfossil fuels. This sort of thing is obviously going to get more and moreacute as time goes on and as the impact of the changes to the climate becomebecome more real to everybody. And so I think coming out the other side of this,what we have is a bunch of metrics around what makes you a goodcorporation that extend well beyond profitability and you know, you're ashare price and this is something that I've started to talk about withfinancial brands. It's really developing an M. V. P. And not being aminimal viable product but really the conversation has been so focused onmission, it's been focused on vision. But then we bring the P. N. And that'spurpose purpose beyond just the internal shareholder. But then you'regetting into the triple bottom line people profit planet kind of a thing.You then you're also taking care of your suppliers and and it really is amuch larger play at stake. Even on the environmental side was working with afinancial brand out of the Northwest two weeks ago and they were looking atmaking an early play. This is a community institution, looking atmaking a national play on the solar side of things solar lending. And theyknow that their early on in the game but they were like yeah fossil fuels.This idea of an oil economy is one that's dwindling. They know they mightbe a little bit early to the market at a macro level. But I think they want tobe at the precipice of that wave and and and write it look I think you knowthat I think that's great that they're doing that. And I think those sort ofthings become increasingly important and there's going to be organizationsthat are made or or broken as a result of sort of this philosophical approachto this thing. Uh you know I I think the one area that is uh is going to besuper interesting through throughout this process is um we do have to thinkabout the economy very differently in the future because of a I am because ofclimate, we have to ask the question, what is the economy for? And there'sthere's two potential answers to that. One is it creates economic growth, itcreates GDP growth, it creates jobs, it creates trade, you know, this is theeconomists view of the economy, but on the other hand, the other view is, well,the economy should look after the needs of its citizens, it should make itscitizens happy and healthy. So on the on the former the U. S. Is one of themost successful economies the world has ever seen on the ladder. It's ademonstrable failure because of inequality in the gap between rich andpoor. And so we have to start to bring those two worlds together and say theeconomy has to work for its people and also generate economic activity. And sohow do we prioritize those two things better than we do currently in sort ofthe model we have today thinking about like all of the chaos and coming backto your quadrant here, the chaotic...

...piece of this, what should be keeping afinancial brand leader up at night? What should they be thinking about andrenew, renew, berating on here? I think, you know, it's really what's the roleof the business that you have and um you know, can you hand on heart saythat not only you an efficient business, you're generating returns and so forth.But are you are you actively trying to do something that's socially good?Because I think ultimately if you have a social lens on what you do, whetherthat's financial inclusion or whether that is not polluting the planet, youknow, if you start to build your business that way, you do have to thinkquite differently about the business, it's no longer just it doesn't matteras long as we're generating return, everyone's going to be fine. Right? Andso you have to I think be a little smarter about the way you build yourbusiness in this world. You know, something that you talked to him beforeabout the economy is you know, being healthy, being happy. Where might we beable to start having more conversations around the correlation between aperson's financial, well being, physical, well being, financial, wellbeing mental, well being. What are your thoughts on that? Well, you know, wecan see that in terms of the economic pressure that we've faced over the lastfew years. And this is even before the pandemic occurred, obviously we've seenthe statistics that the U. S. Billionaires accumulated more than atrillion dollars during the pandemic. The world's trillion ares surpassed 10trillion. Sorry, the world's billionaires to pass $10 trilliondollars for the first time. Um you know, and so the you know, the top 1% richestin the US-owned more than the bottom, 90%. You know we've seen thesestatistics. But even prior to the pandemic that those economic pressureswere very clear upon the world because of the changes already taking placebecause of the inequality that's already there, the homelessness and soforth. So when you when you look at that as a as a factor you see itexpressed in society through protests and the like so the number of protestsin the 1st 20 years of this century were 200% greater in terms of volume ofprotests. And we've seen in the last 50 years of the 20th century butparticipation rates rose By 10 fold 1,000%. And you see that happening allaround the world, this is not just happening, you know, as you know, uh asa result of like you know the election protests or protests against trump.We're talking about protests of all sorts of different causes,dissatisfaction with the government, you know, concerned about climatechange et cetera. And so when you have this level of dissatisfaction ordiscontent, The system will break...

...historically. That's what we found. Andso either will and Ariel Durant who wrote lessons from history back in the60s when they studied all of these revolutions and so forth in the pastand governmental systems. They said there's two ways this ends eitherredistribution of wealth through legislation or revolution and um that'sthe inflection point we're coming to in society and if you go back and youstudy, the for example, american revolution, you study the civil war,the french revolution. It was going through these, these economictransformational periods from like you said, agricultural too industrial tonow technological to now techno. So I mean really it's just to go back andyou study history, there's nothing new under the sun as ancient wisdom says,Let's give the dear listeners some hope, right? It's, it doesn't have to be alldoom and gloom. There is land. What do you, what is that? What are you mosthopeful about? What could the dear listen will be most helpful aboutlooking ahead, coming out the other side of this, humanity is going toenjoy a period of abundance and prosperity that simply isn't possiblewith the current system and something that is sustainable for the entireplanet, right? That's the end game. So a new renaissance, a new golden age,Yes. Your golden age, no one will ever have to worry about putting a roof overtheir head or putting food in their belly, you know, and the work that wedo will be full of purpose, like you said before is when you work in thefuture, you'll choose to do something that you're passionate about that youthink can make a difference rather than that you have to put food on the table.So one of the big one of the biggest employers over the next century will beclimate mitigation extracting carbon from the atmosphere building seawalldefenses around new york and Miami to stop it from getting flooded, makingour infrastructure resilient to extreme weather events. I mean, retooling theenergy grids that we have to work off renewables and do battery storage.We're talking about hundreds of millions of people employed in theseindustries. Just by early next decade, we'll Look at what Peter Diamandis andElon Musk are teaming up with the new x prize $100 million dollars to pullcarbon out of the air and actually do something with that. It is, it reallyis an exciting time in the banking space. The biggest roadblocks that wejust need to be aware of that could prevent us from moving forward downthis path to what I have always said to create a bigger, better, brighterfuture for those that are in the communities that we're serving, what'sthe big road blocks that we just need to be aware of because I think it'sawareness, all transformation and growth begins with one thing, tellingthe truth about where you've been, where you're at, where you could grownext. What's the awareness that we need to bring to the table, really had asenior leadership level, then bring that throughout the organization. Well,one thing that's become clear during...

...the pandemic is, you know, I think thebanks actually don't help you financially when it comes to wellness.Banks don't help you save. Now. Banks will say, well, yes, we do. We providesavings accounts for people that's not helping people safe. You know, you haveto change the role that money has in people's lives and get them to thinkabout that differently or use that resource differently to get a differentresult. And so banks have really not done that. In fact, the products thatwe have the credit cards, you know, the cash back, the airline miles or rewards,You know, you look at that, we've we've been stimulated to spend money ratherthan save money over the sense of creation of the credit card product atleast. And so when it comes to the immediate impact of the pandemic, we'regoing to see a lot more focused on financial well being, financial healthand helping people manage their money. So the battle of the smart bankaccounts is coming and while it's right now winning that, if you look at thaton a global basis, more people today use mobile wallets day to day fordiscretionary spending than they do a plastic card that shift already hastaken place over the last couple of years, even before the pandemic, whichaccelerated it. So if you're in banking today and you want people to use yourbank account and have access to the products and features that you have ofthat, you must have at its core, the ability to help people manage theirmoney. That's that's what the purpose of the bank account should be. Yes. Andby, you know, I've always said, if you can transform a person's wallet, youcan transform their physical well being, their mental well being. They're allinterconnected, definitely correlation. And a lot of that honestly starts withthe relationship that the individual has with money in and of itself. And ifwe can bring to bear once again awareness to a person's individualspending behaviors, then we can also help them, you know, create reinforcepositive savings behaviors. Where do we get started? I would like to end on avery practical perspective. It's been a great conversation because all change.All transformation begins with that small, simple step first that goes tothe next to the next the next. What's your recommendation on where the dearlistener could get started as we look to move forward into this, into thisnew future. Here go to www rise of techno socialism dot com or wherevergood books are sold now. Um I think as a thought exercise, you know, or interms of getting yourself prepared for this future, I think just just imaginea world that would give you the freedom to pursue something that you feelreally passionately passionately about. And so, um what is it that if money wasno object and you could spend the rest of your life doing this, what wouldgive you the most satisfaction and at the same time, be something that wouldbe really useful for the citizens...

...around you and the planet as a whole.Um and start imagining that life because that life is possible with thefuture that were emerging into. And I would have built upon that thought,that's a great thought exercise. This is one that I learned from dan Sullivan.It's called the because you mentioned life extension before. Like, you know,imagine the year that you're gonna die 85 Okay. And then imagine with all ofthe advances that we're going to see over the next 10, 15, 20 years. Okay,what are we gonna get? Maybe an extra 30? An extra four? And these arequality years. Exactly. And then you subtract, let's just say 125-85 billShatner 90 going into space. Yeah, you get an extra 40 years With that extra40 years, write down everything that you'd like to do and then why are youwaiting start doing some of this stuff now? Because I think that's going togive you that purpose, that energy to fuel fill you further farther faster.You're right. I mean William Shatner going into space? I mean space thefinal frontier and these are the Voyages. We actually have a quote fromAubrey De Gray in there. Aubrey de Gray is one of the leading scientists thatlooks at self's innocence. And um you know, longevity and he says that wewill reach escape longevity by 2036. And so a lot is going to be happeningnext next decade. So escape longevity means where we will be able to stop theaging process, You won't be getting any older. It doesn't mean you'll begetting younger necessarily, but that's the first thing, let's just stop us,stop ourselves. Get that's not far away. We're talking about a controversialsubject, aging is a disease, but it can be treated like a disease as well. Youknow, we're talking about the roughly the same timeframe from when the iphonefirst came out to when we're going to stop aging. You know, it's like it'smind blowing. It really, it really is. I'm excited. Like, you know, the worldthat we're getting to create together, it is a world that I am truly hopefulfor. Um I think about my four kids and really what they are going to get toexperience, I'm even probably more hopeful for them. It really is, itreally is. You mentioned the book before. Um what's the best way thatsomeone can grab a copy? Well then they can go to the website Rise of technosocialism dot com. There's the trailer there there is linked to the differentbooksellers, of course it is listed on amazon dot com and Barnes and noble dotcom. You know, if you can go and preorder that prior to the releasestate, middle of next month. That'll be hugely helpful for us because we'regetting very close to our goal of getting this book listed on the newyork times and every book that's pre order. It helps us uh towards thatbecause the first week they ship all that volume gets counted And we shouldbe releasing this right before the that time period. So what is that? Thatspecific release? Just one Contest is the global release date November 21.Yeah, so the dear listener, please do go grab a copy, let's get this in thenew york times bestseller. It's an...

...important read. It's the one that I'mexcited about and don't forget to tune into Brett's podcast to keep learningfrom him. Breaking banks a lot of good stuff over there bret as always. Thanksfor joining me man, It's been a fun conversation today. Fantastic. Jr thankyou and keep growing keep moving forward as always and until next timebe well. Do good and make your bed. Thank you for listening to anotherepisode of banking on digital growth with James robert. Ley like what youhear, tell a friend about the podcast and leave us a review on apple podcast,google podcasts or Spotify and subscribe while you're there to geteven more practical improvement insights visit www dot digital growthdot com to grab a preview of James roberts. Bestselling book banking ondigital growth Or order a copy right now for you and your team from Amazoninside you'll find a strategic marketing and sales blueprint framedaround 12 key areas of focus that empower you to confidently generate 10times more loans and deposits until next time, be well and do good. Yeah.

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